Chase bank not feeling comfortable

[bb113]

The one statement that I remember is bitcoin is a crack house. That must mean we are the crack whores.

Satoshi was a coke whore who came up with a better thing, crack. Addiction is just the word for loving things other than a specific person anyway.

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[Bitcoin Oz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18993476
http://www.policymic.com/articles/10959/fbi-drug-cartels-use-bank-of-america-to-launder-money
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/05/31/will-treasury-hire-the-guy-who-allowed-jp-morgan-help-iran-launder-money/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/21/jp-morgan-chase-closes-vatican-bank-account.html

Nothing to see here.

[stevegee58]

Keep in mind that even if TPTB decide to "do something" about BTC, what would they do?  BTC operates on a distributed network with open source software; it can't be shut down.

[arklan]

the only thing i see that they could do is make exchaning to fiat difficult (potentially very) but, even then - not every country would do it, so they exchanges could operate there. say BTC to japanese yen THEN to euro/USD or whatnot.

[stevegee58]

Yup, all they could do is outlaw the exchange of BTC to fiat currencies.  That isn't such a bad thing if you think about it.  Yes it puts an end to the exchange rate speculators on MtGox but so what?  You would no longer have a real reference to the USD or other fiat currencies.  So what?

We need to get away from thinking in terms of "Oh boy I have $2000 worth of BTC!  I can't wait to convert it to USD and spend it on something!"  The path ahead for BTC is for it to have its value anchored in real goods and services.

Exchanging it with USD is just a crutch and keeps BTC mired in the realm of conspiracy theories and other kookiness.

[mobile4ever]

the only thing i see that they could do is make exchaning to fiat difficult (potentially very) but, even then - not every country would do it, so they exchanges could operate there. say BTC to japanese yen THEN to euro/USD or whatnot.

Plus there are too many other things to exchange BTC to that this would not be a hindrance.

[Steve]

Yup, all they could do is outlaw the exchange of BTC to fiat currencies.  That isn't such a bad thing if you think about it.  Yes it puts an end to the exchange rate speculators on MtGox but so what?  You would no longer have a real reference to the USD or other fiat currencies.  So what?

We need to get away from thinking in terms of "Oh boy I have $2000 worth of BTC!  I can't wait to convert it to USD and spend it on something!"  The path ahead for BTC is for it to have its value anchored in real goods and services.

Exchanging it with USD is just a crutch and keeps BTC mired in the realm of conspiracy theories and other kookiness.

Decentralization of exchanges will make it effectively impossible to prevent exchange into anything…no bank accounts even necessary.  But, government could declare it illegal to exchange it for good or services, fiat included.  That would mean that only people and businesses willing to ignore such a law would continue to deal with Bitcoin.  But such a move would would ultimately weaken government.  Hence I doubt outright banning of Bitcoin is the path they will take.  They will try to marginalize it or even co-opt it through various means (regulations, four horsemen, embrace and extend, etc).

I also believe that Bitcoin is protected by the free speech provisions in the US constitution's 1st amendment.  So, while laws could be passed, the US government's own constitution makes such laws invalid.  And, regardless of any law or constitution on this planet, no person has any right to deem Bitcoin, or the use of it in trade, illegal or to persecute those that voluntarily choose to use it.

[molecular]

Yup, all they could do is outlaw the exchange of BTC to fiat currencies.  That isn't such a bad thing if you think about it.  Yes it puts an end to the exchange rate speculators on MtGox but so what?  You would no longer have a real reference to the USD or other fiat currencies.  So what?

We need to get away from thinking in terms of "Oh boy I have $2000 worth of BTC!  I can't wait to convert it to USD and spend it on something!"  The path ahead for BTC is for it to have its value anchored in real goods and services.

Exchanging it with USD is just a crutch and keeps BTC mired in the realm of conspiracy theories and other kookiness.

Decentralization of exchanges will make it effectively impossible to prevent exchange into anything…no bank accounts even necessary.  But, government could declare it illegal to exchange it for good or services, fiat included.  That would mean that only people and businesses willing to ignore such a law would continue to deal with Bitcoin.  But such a move would would ultimately weaken government.  Hence I doubt outright banning of Bitcoin is the path they will take.  They will try to marginalize it or even co-opt it through various means (regulations, four horsemen, embrace and extend, etc).

I also believe that Bitcoin is protected by the free speech provisions in the US constitution's 1st amendment.  So, while laws could be passed, the US government's own constitution makes such laws invalid.  And, regardless of any law or constitution on this planet, no person has any right to deem Bitcoin, or the use of it in trade, illegal or to persecute those that voluntarily choose to use it.

I agree generally. Two things:

• the US constitution? as far as I can tell this heart of your country is already being trampled upon substantially. I don't see it as a hindrance to "combatting enemies of freedom and security".
• "embrace & extend"? oh yeah baby, I'd just love to see central banks around the world setup mining farms, be it for bitcoin or for some newly invented ReserveCoin... not gonna happen.

[Piper67]

Yup, all they could do is outlaw the exchange of BTC to fiat currencies.  That isn't such a bad thing if you think about it.  Yes it puts an end to the exchange rate speculators on MtGox but so what?  You would no longer have a real reference to the USD or other fiat currencies.  So what?

We need to get away from thinking in terms of "Oh boy I have $2000 worth of BTC!  I can't wait to convert it to USD and spend it on something!"  The path ahead for BTC is for it to have its value anchored in real goods and services.

Exchanging it with USD is just a crutch and keeps BTC mired in the realm of conspiracy theories and other kookiness.

Decentralization of exchanges will make it effectively impossible to prevent exchange into anything…no bank accounts even necessary.  But, government could declare it illegal to exchange it for good or services, fiat included.  That would mean that only people and businesses willing to ignore such a law would continue to deal with Bitcoin.  But such a move would would ultimately weaken government.  Hence I doubt outright banning of Bitcoin is the path they will take.  They will try to marginalize it or even co-opt it through various means (regulations, four horsemen, embrace and extend, etc).

I also believe that Bitcoin is protected by the free speech provisions in the US constitution's 1st amendment.  So, while laws could be passed, the US government's own constitution makes such laws invalid.  And, regardless of any law or constitution on this planet, no person has any right to deem Bitcoin, or the use of it in trade, illegal or to persecute those that voluntarily choose to use it.

Hmmmm... unfortunately, the US government doesn't really give a flying rat's ass about the 1st Amendment. Not only is there a Patriot Act, but there's also a Patriot Act II, which effectively makes it illegal to discuss any cases under the Patriot Act.

Also, while the bitcoin community might be a bit "US-heavy", the US is but one government that might be tempted to do something about this. I, for one, am a lot more interested in what approach the Chinese government will take.

Government regulation isn't a make-or-break situation for Bitcoin, as it can't be broken that way. But it certainly is a make-or-not make kind of situation, if you know what I mean. All it would take would be for China to express the slightest of interests in using Bitcoin as a hedge, and we're off to the races!

[stevegee58]

Uh-oh.  A black helicopter just flew low over my house.  Better put on the aluminum foil hat.  (Tin foil is for pussies).

[Charlie Prime]

Don't ever expect a man to understand what him getting his paycheck depends on him not understanding.

Well said.

[paulie_w]

these guys are morons.

[unclemantis]

-1

[dissipate]

these guys are morons.

They may not be as dumb as you think. They know what they are doing, they are spreading FUD.

[SpontaneousDisorder]

Don't steal, defraud, launder money, manipulate markets or setup ponzi schemes,

The banks hate competition.

[cypherdoc]

Don't steal, defraud, launder money, manipulate markets or setup ponzi schemes,

The banks hate competition.

Lol!

[paulie_w]

these guys are morons.

They may not be as dumb as you think. They know what they are doing, they are spreading FUD.

actually, you're totally right.

and that dude who said the stuff about the paycheck is right too.

[dissipate]

Wait a second. You can buy bitcoins from a number of exchanges by making a cash deposit at a chase branch. Doesn't that make chase complicit in all of this?

[Herodes]

Hm... I was thinking, should someone of us inquiry about the details about their 'software program' to see what methods they've actually used (unless it's already in the open), to further embarass them when we see their program is basically useless ?

to me, the entire presentation was just a lot of mumbo jambo..

[niko]

Hm... I was thinking, should someone of us inquiry about the details about their 'software program' to see what methods they've actually used (unless it's already in the open), to further embarass them when we see their program is basically useless ?

to me, the entire presentation was just a lot of mumbo jambo..

I felt sorry about idiots paying those lazy, incompetent, self-proclaimed experts money for their services. Judging by the quality of this presentation, it's essentially a scam.