How long till Vod gets removed from the trust list?

[Lauda]

Why is that a problem?

He has given negative trust to a number of people who are selling MSDN keys to Microsoft products at highly discounted prices which is financially harmful to Microsoft.

Let me repeat his question: Why is that a problem?
How about they stop selling things that shouldn't be selling? How about people stop doing things the wrong way? The problem isn't in him (most of the time I guess), it's in the members.

[1715696050]

1715696050

[Quickseller]

Why is that a problem?

He has given negative trust to a number of people who are selling MSDN keys to Microsoft products at highly discounted prices which is financially harmful to Microsoft.

Let me repeat his question: Why is that a problem?
How about they stop selling things that shouldn't be selling? How about people stop doing things the wrong way? The problem isn't in him (most of the time I guess), it's in the members.

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

There are hundreds of other people on the default trust network and none of them have given any of he MSDN key sellers negative trust. When a newbie asks for a loan without collateral, when someone scams, when an account gets hacked, among other things, multiple people will leave negative trust on an account.

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

[abyrnes81]

Why is that a problem?

He has given negative trust to a number of people who are selling MSDN keys to Microsoft products at highly discounted prices which is financially harmful to Microsoft.

Let me repeat his question: Why is that a problem?
How about they stop selling things that shouldn't be selling? How about people stop doing things the wrong way? The problem isn't in him (most of the time I guess), it's in the members.

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

There are hundreds of other people on the default trust network and none of them have given any of he MSDN key sellers negative trust. When a newbie asks for a loan without collateral, when someone scams, when an account gets hacked, among other things, multiple people will leave negative trust on an account.

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

I think it is not against the forum rules to sell MSDN keys, isn't it? Maybe Vod should edit his negative trust in a more appropriate one (he owns the final choice).

[Vod]

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

You and a good portion of the forum seem to turn a blind eye towards theft if it benefits the bitcoin economy.  If I were to steal and resell your car for $100, you wouldn't have use of the car anymore.  It doesn't matter whether I let the car buyer know it is stolen - it is still theft and it is still wrong.

[dogie]

Why is that a problem?

He has given negative trust to a number of people who are selling MSDN keys to Microsoft products at highly discounted prices which is financially harmful to Microsoft.

Let me repeat his question: Why is that a problem?
How about they stop selling things that shouldn't be selling? How about people stop doing things the wrong way? The problem isn't in him (most of the time I guess), it's in the members.

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

But that's a projection on you, not Vod. YOU feel that if you were employed by microsoft, you would feel pressured to act as they dictate. That doesn't mean Vod feels and/or is pressured to act as they dictate. Nor - as others have said - would that even matter seeing as what they was likely illegal anyway.

Regarding your point that other DefaultTrust'ers have not left negative trust, I'm not sure that's releavent. The inaction of others does not reflect on the legitimacy of the actions of others. The majority of DefaultTrust'ers don't get involved in that style of 'low level' dispute but that doesn't make the ratings are right or wrong.

I think it is not against the forum rules to sell MSDN keys, isn't it? Maybe Vod should edit his negative trust in a more appropriate one (he owns the final choice).

If its illegal, its nearly always against the forum's rules. While its potentially debatable whether its criminally or civilly illegal, they probably shouldn't be on here.

[abyrnes81]

Why is that a problem?

He has given negative trust to a number of people who are selling MSDN keys to Microsoft products at highly discounted prices which is financially harmful to Microsoft.

Let me repeat his question: Why is that a problem?
How about they stop selling things that shouldn't be selling? How about people stop doing things the wrong way? The problem isn't in him (most of the time I guess), it's in the members.

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

But that's a projection on you, not Vod. YOU feel that if you were employed by microsoft, you would feel pressured to act as they dictate. That doesn't mean Vod feels and/or is pressured to act as they dictate. Nor - as others have said - would that even matter seeing as what they was likely illegal anyway.

Regarding your point that other DefaultTrust'ers have not left negative trust, I'm not sure that's releavent. The inaction of others does not reflect on the legitimacy of the actions of others. The majority of DefaultTrust'ers don't get involved in that style of 'low level' dispute but that doesn't make the ratings are right or wrong.

I think it is not against the forum rules to sell MSDN keys, isn't it? Maybe Vod should edit his negative trust in a more appropriate one (he owns the final choice).

If its illegal, its nearly always against the forum's rules. While its potentially debatable whether its criminally or civilly illegal, they probably shouldn't be on here.

Ok, then I was wrong and Vod has the right to leave a negative trust to all those users and also Quickseller should do the same.

[TECSHARE]

... Hypothetically speaking Theymos could...

He has in multiple cases involved himself and ordered lower level people on the trust remove people from their own trust lists because he does not agree with their ratings, therefore this is not hypothetical at all. As a result it is not true that the trust system is not moderated, because Theymos and others on the staff have personally repeatedly taken actions to either attempt to remove ratings or seek to remove those that left them. Considering they have taken these extraneous actions in the past, why is it acceptable to do this for some users, but not Vod, who is very clearly abusing his position on the default trust?

THE RULES ARE IMPORTANT (unless of course it is me then they don't apply at all)! -Forum staff mantra

[siameze]

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

You and a good portion of the forum seem to turn a blind eye towards theft if it benefits the bitcoin economy.  If I were to steal and resell your car for $100, you wouldn't have use of the car anymore.  It doesn't matter whether I let the car buyer know it is stolen - it is still theft and it is still wrong.

This seems so simple, yet many people here fail to grasp that point. I feel that if you want to sell stolen product keys and other shady items, then perhaps an account with Hack Forums or the like would be more your speed.

For my part, I applaud what Vod does, even though I personally don't use many Microsoft products. ( I still have a 10 year-old copy of Windows XP ).

[Lethn]

You do realise all you're doing if you're actually trying to operate a legitimate business is making yourselves look incredibly petty and spiteful by continuing this flamewar against Vod right?

[erikalui]

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

There are hundreds of other people on the default trust network and none of them have given any of he MSDN key sellers negative trust. When a newbie asks for a loan without collateral, when someone scams, when an account gets hacked, among other things, multiple people will leave negative trust on an account.

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

So people can money launder, steal, commit crime and nobody has a right to tell them anything and one should just allow criminal activities to take place?


VOD is leaving a feedback may be for his own interest/benefit and I wish the other people who are on the default trust should follow the same path and try to stop these type of illegal activities from taking place on the forum. If all just keep quite, they are supporting these type of activities or are a part of it.

[TECSHARE]

it is a conflict of interest. Microsoft is a major source (indirectly because he is not actually an employee of Microsoft) of Vod's income. As a result Microsoft is able to exercise undue influence on him.

There are hundreds of other people on the default trust network and none of them have given any of he MSDN key sellers negative trust. When a newbie asks for a loan without collateral, when someone scams, when an account gets hacked, among other things, multiple people will leave negative trust on an account.

I don't think Vod (or anyone for that matter) is in a position to be telling other people what they can and cannot be trading as long as all parties are clear as to what is being traded.

So people can money launder, steal, commit crime and nobody has a right to tell them anything and one should just allow criminal activities to take place?


VOD is leaving a feedback may be for his own interest/benefit and I wish the other people who are on the default trust should follow the same path and try to stop these type of illegal activities from taking place on the forum. If all just keep quite, they are supporting these type of activities or are a part of it.

You are missing the forest for the trees. The reason people don't like this is because Bitcoin was created explicitly to AVOID some third party dictating to others what to do with their money. Yes with this laze-fair attitude some crime will happen, but history shows prohibition just makes it worse. Also, do you think prohibiting things from the forum magically stops it from happening? Furthermore, it starts with MSDN keys, but then where does it stop? Almost all of the virtual goods we all trade with each other have some kind of clause within their terms of service prohibiting distributing them from an unauthorized outlet. If you were to enforce the TOS of every company out there THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO TRADE. So the question isn't about people maybe getting away with something, its about which is worse, that or this pandora's box of imposition on the trading environment by a demonstrated tyrant like VOD.

[siameze]

That escalated quickly. The whole selling of keys is really a childish thing, but it is stealing. Or at least I feel that way. Yes you can choose who to do business with quite freely. Vod has merely pointed out that the guy indeed sells a stolen product which is truly indisputable. If your conscience allows you to buy such items, then by all means do so. Dishonest people will continue to buy things from less-than-reputable sellers. Those that wish to do things above-board have a reference at the very least.

[chmod755]

third party dictating to others what to do with their money.

How is Vod "dictating to others what to do with their money"? I could still buy those MSDN keys if I wanted to, but I for one appreciate to be warned about shady people.

I checked his ratings and they all seem reasonable.

If you were to enforce the TOS of every company out there THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO TRADE. So the question isn't about people maybe getting away with something, its about which is worse, that or this pandora's box of imposition on the trading environment by a demonstrated tyrant like VOD.

How about real goods or services?

[Vod]

If you were to enforce the TOS of every company out there THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO TRADE. So the question isn't about people maybe getting away with something, its about which is worse, that or this pandora's box of imposition on the trading environment by a demonstrated tyrant like VOD.

How about real goods or services?

Tecshare seems to think this forum should traffic in stolen goods and services, rather than legit ones.   

[siameze]

How about real goods or services?

Yes, there are already any number of perfectly good legit products and services here anyone can use.

[BitcoinDistributor]

If Vod is going to mark people selling microsoft license keys as scammers then he might as well mark every netflix, porn account, paypal account, and any other account seller as a scammer then. Oh look he has not? Why? Because he simply is trying to protect himself and microsoft, not everyone.

Vod should be removed from the default trust. He is extremely biased in his decisions and rash. He doesn't look at each scenario with neutrality but assumes everyone is like the previous person he's dealt with.

[bitsum]

sometimes Vod thinks he can replace the admin of the forum.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

We really shouldn't be trafficking in illegal shit. I don't see the controversy here.

[Muhammed Zakir]

sometimes Vod thinks he can replace the admin of the forum.

Proof?

[koelen3]

All people here have been just whining about Vod and Quickseller .
The meta has rather become more like Meta , Vod and QS .
Let me tell you something , go to these link : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=30747 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=358020

Check for yourself how many scammers have they stopped.
And then there are people like you , you certainly did something bad and got neg repped for it! Now you have been taking it out on these guys , just deal with it! Be good and you will earn trust back if you care so much about it! Else let it be, it shall not matter.