Bitcoin Forum
November 03, 2024, 11:15:15 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin and kidnapping  (Read 3170 times)
cbeast (OP)
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


View Profile
August 11, 2012, 06:01:24 PM
 #1

In regards to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99200.msg1086353#msg1086353
I wanted to give this issue the attention it deserves. Here's the scenario: A loved one is kidnapped. The fiends demand a ransom to be payed in Bitcoin before the person is released. There is no way to stake out a money drop. There are no bank accounts to trace. The kidnapper gets the money with no fear of getting caught after the fact and may or may not release the victim.

Bitcoin has just open a big can of worms. Quite a conundrum. In the movies, the bad guy exchanged a briefcase of unmarked small bills for the victim and the chase ensues. Depending on the cleverness of the villain, he may or may not get away. There have been very intricate plots created to dramatize this basic element. Bitcoin is different. No drama is needed. A simple business transaction and it's done. We need to make sure we seperate our suspension of disbelief in fictional stories from reality.

Sure, if Bitcoin remains as an anonymous or at least pseudonymous transaction, then this could happen. But so can a whole lot of other things we have never thought about before. Before I talk about the good things, I'm going to develop the kidnapping business a little further. Let's say the victim's champion does not believe that the kidnapper will release the victim. The champion counter-proposes that the money be put in a 2-of-2 escrow instead and the key will be given after the victim is released. The only risk the perp has is that he will not get the money, but neither will the champion and he runs the risk of retribution. With much less risk, kidnappers will probably demand less money. Another threat the kidnapper faces is an anonymous bounty for evidence of their crime and community retribution in the form of vigilantism. Criminals need to fear cellphones with cameras or even talking about their crimes. Maybe official crime enforcement channels are unable to do this, but Bitcoin makes it possible. Of course this gets convoluted with fraud and other shenanigans, but that's for other topics.

Now I want to talk about the real crime that threatens civilization to the core. 99.99++% of our economy is counterfeit. Wars that kill millions of people are funded by counterfeit money. Bitcoin can end that. That's a simple argument, but the most profound ones usually are.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2012, 06:06:43 PM
 #2

I volunteer cbeast to go bring up this issue on a popular TV talkshow.

2000th post, sorry it had to be spamming in another this is why btc is awesome why doesn't everybody use it thread Grin
cbeast (OP)
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


View Profile
September 07, 2012, 01:37:30 PM
 #3

I should probably add that good, honest, responsible people don't commit these heinous crimes. Bitcoins don't kidnap people, people kidnap people.  Undecided

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Bitware
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 926
Merit: 1001


weaving spiders come not here


View Profile
September 07, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
 #4

In regards to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99200.msg1086353#msg1086353
I wanted to give this issue the attention it deserves. Here's the scenario: A loved one is kidnapped. The fiends demand a ransom to be payed in Bitcoin before the person is released. There is no way to stake out a money drop. There are no bank accounts to trace. The kidnapper gets the money with no fear of getting caught after the fact and may or may not release the victim.

Bitcoin has just open a big can of worms. Quite a conundrum. In the movies, the bad guy exchanged a briefcase of unmarked small bills for the victim and the chase ensues. Depending on the cleverness of the villain, he may or may not get away. There have been very intricate plots created to dramatize this basic element. Bitcoin is different. No drama is needed. A simple business transaction and it's done. We need to make sure we seperate our suspension of disbelief in fictional stories from reality.

Sure, if Bitcoin remains as an anonymous or at least pseudonymous transaction, then this could happen. But so can a whole lot of other things we have never thought about before. Before I talk about the good things, I'm going to develop the kidnapping business a little further. Let's say the victim's champion does not believe that the kidnapper will release the victim. The champion counter-proposes that the money be put in a 2-of-2 escrow instead and the key will be given after the victim is released. The only risk the perp has is that he will not get the money, but neither will the champion and he runs the risk of retribution. With much less risk, kidnappers will probably demand less money. Another threat the kidnapper faces is an anonymous bounty for evidence of their crime and community retribution in the form of vigilantism. Criminals need to fear cellphones with cameras or even talking about their crimes. Maybe official crime enforcement channels are unable to do this, but Bitcoin makes it possible. Of course this gets convoluted with fraud and other shenanigans, but that's for other topics.

Now I want to talk about the real crime that threatens civilization to the core. 99.99++% of our economy is counterfeit. Wars that kill millions of people are funded by counterfeit money. Bitcoin can end that. That's a simple argument, but the most profound ones usually are.

not even an issue, although I am sure it can be spun into one for political traction.

you either want to be free or enslaved.

There is no middle ground.

nevafuse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 247
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 07, 2012, 04:50:23 PM
 #5

A loved one is kidnapped. The fiends demand a ransom to be payed in Bitcoin before the person is released. There is no way to stake out a money drop. There are no bank accounts to trace. The kidnapper gets the money with no fear of getting caught after the fact and may or may not release the victim.

Along with all the benefits bitcoin provides, there are some negatives.  I truly believe bitcoin will stimulate the economy like never before, so that criminals won't have to resort to extortion to build the life they dream of.  And less inflation will allow more money to hire bodyguards if you have enough wealth to attract kidnappers in the first place.  There will always be people that want to cheat the system, and there are other means than money to track criminals.

The only reason to limit the block size is to subsidize non-Bitcoin currencies
jehst
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798
Merit: 1000

21 million. I want them all.


View Profile
October 28, 2015, 01:05:23 PM
 #6

Prescient. Three years later, here are two actual kidnappers who asked for bitcoin.

http://www.ticotimes.net/2015/10/23/50000-reward-offered-for-capture-conviction-of-canadian-expats-kidnappers

http://tribune.com.pk/story/980693/kidnapped-hong-kong-tycoon-rescued-in-taiwan/


Year 2021
Bitcoin Supply: ~90% mined
Supply Inflation: <1.8%
spazzdla
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 28, 2015, 06:40:21 PM
 #7

I hear there is this metal called gold.
jehst
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798
Merit: 1000

21 million. I want them all.


View Profile
October 28, 2015, 06:42:58 PM
 #8

I hear there is this metal called gold.

And?

Year 2021
Bitcoin Supply: ~90% mined
Supply Inflation: <1.8%
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!