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Author Topic: Are old altcoins like nigerian stamps or NOT?  (Read 1546 times)
socoban
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July 04, 2015, 03:46:38 PM
 #21

Here are some Facts:

1) in 2013 was huge alt coin pump.
2) in 2014 were hundreds of coins created and dumped to almost no value
3) in 2015 Cryptsy stopped (or almost stopped) to list new alt coins.
4) 2014 was bearish in ALTS for 2 reasons:
         a) BTC and LTC were dumping whole year and were trying to find the bottom after 2013 pump
         b) Many new coins were created every day
5) Almost all alt coins gained value in 2015.
6) My portfolio on Cryptsy is now 10x higher than it was in January 2015

I decided to buy huge amounts of cheapest dead alt coins. In many I have more than 10%. I was buying them since January, when I realized LTC and BTC hit bottom. I took them out of the market. I am gona buy more and more at those cheap prices since I realized I am not the only one doing this strategy.

For me, there is no difference between coin with $Million , $100k or $1000 marekt cap coin. Almost all of them have scam history of some kind. It doesn't matter how many users is using them now. If ALT coin market sinks than those popular will lose community support during time. If alt coin market grows, those cheapest coins will get more % grow on community and value than those more expensive.  And the most important is, If I buy cheapest coin, the only way how I lose my money is if Cryptsy delist that coin or if Cryptsy bancrupts. Since I can't install all wallets and I hold almost all my alt coins there, bancruptsy will hurt me, doesn't matter what coin I have. But If I buy more expensive coins, they can still dump heavily for what ever reason.

So I think, the only 2 questions that matters are: Do have alts any future? Will Cryptsy bancrupt in next 2-3 years? If answers are YES and NO, than not buying cheapest almost dead coins with working wallets is mistake. I strongly belive that both BTC and ALTS have future. I also belive that history repeats again and again. And I decided to take the risk to throw some serious money into Cryptsy, even thought I think their owners are shady, incompetent greedy and without vision.

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X68N
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July 04, 2015, 05:16:26 PM
 #22

Keeping Risk Reward in mind is in general a good idea.

But buying up 10% is overkill, you can't drop that amount without causing the price to fall.
Well its a "i want to be ultra rich fantasy", but be more realistic.
0.1-1 % is enough and easier to sell.
A big bag holder can controll the market price with his huge volume.
If you unload your bag to fast and or in to large chunks you can start a downtrend.
So the only way to sell such large amounts is in small chunks over 1-2 years.
So you must be really patient, and stress resistant.
In these 2 years the value of your bag can everytime fall or drop to zero.


How many different coins did you buy?

greetings







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July 04, 2015, 05:40:25 PM
 #23

Keeping Risk Reward in mind is in general a good idea.

But buying up 10% is overkill, you can't drop that amount without causing the price to fall.
Well its a "i want to be ultra rich fantasy", but be more realistic.
0.1-1 % is enough and easier to sell.
A big bag holder can controll the market price with his huge volume.
If you unload your bag to fast and or in to large chunks you can start a downtrend.
So the only way to sell such large amounts is in small chunks over 1-2 years.
So you must be really patient, and stress resistant.
In these 2 years the value of your bag can everytime fall or drop to zero.


How many different coins did you buy?

greetings


I own 10% and more on coins with market cap under $5000. I was buying it slowly during long period. I do not plan to sell all the amount at one moment. I want to buy all available coins extrecheap, to unload them from the market. This will help to grow them faster. If I buy huge % extra cheap, than there will be less sell walls during pumps. Price will go higher much faster. In the end, if the price pumps 10x, I need to sell only 1/10 of my holdings to be in profit. If it pumps 100x, I need to sell 1/100. In the end, I do not care if I sell everything, I just think buying huge amount in the bottom of extra cheap coins brings me lot of pump oportunities during uptrend in the future. The other advantage of this strategy is, I can buy really lot of many different coins. If there is 30 coins under $4000 market cap on cryptsy, I can buy 10% in all of them with 30-50 BTC. And I am 100% sure many of them will pump randomly even without any general uptrend.  I checked my portfolio, and I currently own more than 80 different coins. I have 10%+  in at least 10 coins, and I have 5-10% in much more. I catched 3 big random pumps on them, like Judge, CACHe, CASH. Those 3 made me 20BTC profit. Of course I invested that profit again:) 

PS: Since I am already heavily invested, I do not care to share my strategy. I will continue to invest my profit s from pumps to buy more of those cheapest coins, but I prefer if others join my strategy and help me to unload those coins from market.

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July 04, 2015, 06:07:52 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2015, 06:57:07 PM by X68N
 #24

Ah ok reducing supply is a good idea, i misunderstood it in the first place  Smiley
You must be the antchrist for Pumpgroups ;-). (selling into their pumps, I pointed that technique out in another thread)


How do you decide where you set your Takeprofit target?

greetings

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socoban
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July 04, 2015, 06:18:18 PM
 #25

Ah ok reducing supply is a good idea, i misunderstood it in the first place  Smiley
You must be the antchrist for Pumpgroups ;-). (selling into their pumps, I pointed that technique out in another thread)


How do you decide where you set your Takeprofit target?

greetings


You are right, I earn money on pumpers and scammers:) In last CACHe pump, the scammer wanted to pump to 100x price. He had to pay much more than he expected. Since I own lot of coins, I know I will not be able to sell them all on the top. So I sell them incrementaly during pump. This let me earn money on both small and big pumps. Generally, 10x price is my first sell order on coins under $3000 market cap pre pump price. But it all depends on volume, every pump is different. Some takes few hours, some take weeks. Some pump small to buy more coins during first dump so they can pump higher later. Some are just panic buyers. It is really difficult to sell well. That is the reason I sell incrementally and why I prefer to buy bigger amounts.
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July 04, 2015, 06:56:39 PM
 #26

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
It is interesting to see other points of view for crypto trading.

For the Cryptsy problem of a possible crash, i would suggest to cashout partial profits in BTC and/or USD.
Offcourse the altcoins for trading need to stay there, but taking out a part as "savings" (15-30% per month?) is a good idea
to avoid maximum loss and reduce  the floating risk. It would be sad if you loose all again, think of the time you spend.
As i had written it before that one dude i know made it from 6k up to 200k and got Goxed in the end  Roll Eyes.
(i managed to initialise a BTC withdraw ~72h before mt.Gox crashed, my altcoins where not in danger)

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socoban
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July 04, 2015, 07:13:08 PM
 #27

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
It is interesting to see other points of view for crypto trading.

For the Cryptsy problem of a possible crash, i would suggest to cashout partial profits in BTC and/or USD.
Offcourse the altcoins for trading need to stay there, but taking out a part as "savings" (15-30% per month?) is a good idea
to avoid maximum loss and reduce  the floating risk. It would be sad if you loose all again, think of the time you spend.
As i had written it before that one dude i know made it from 6k up to 200k and got Goxed in the end  Roll Eyes.
(i managed to initialise a BTC withdraw ~72h before mt.Gox crashed, my altcoins where not in danger)

Yea, I started to withdraw profits already. If I knew, Cryptsy will stay here without mayor problem next 3 years, I would load 100BTC there to invest into cheapest coins. But right now, I am already heavily invested and If I am right, I will earn enough. I will have decided to withdraw 1/2 of my profits and the another half I will reinvest.


PS: I just found, there is a new promo code  for bitcoin trezor for just $79. I have ledger wallet, but I am gonna to buy trezor, just to have more places where to store my coins.
Here is the link: https://medium.com/@satoshilabs/bitcoin-trezor-for-independence-893e36f8d8fe

Wish you lot of luck on trading:)
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July 05, 2015, 05:08:11 PM
 #28

Maryjanecoin is legit and long term.

Maryjanecoin.org
X68N
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July 05, 2015, 08:57:30 PM
Last edit: July 05, 2015, 09:25:05 PM by X68N
 #29

Maryjanecoin is legit and long term.

Since your Pseudonym is MaryJ and you dont bring up any reasonable arguments, your post is obvious spam  Roll Eyes

Better *"invest"* in weed directly, than get burned because you invested under THC influence  Cheesy

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July 06, 2015, 06:50:44 PM
 #30

i guess you mean VTC is 10x over its low.
Zet is not. ZET is about 1,2x over its low and can be bought really cheap.
At the Moment i ride LTC, and bought IFC from my last profit.
IFC is like ZET quiet cheap right now(1x over its low).
As i said earlier i recommend splitting orders (scale in and out) at all times,
to get a better entry and exit.

Anyway if you don't feel good with my recommendations, no problem Smiley.
Any investments need confidence to not sell it too early.
My main focus is at the moment on forex,
maybe i publish other coins later when i have new capital/profit for reinvesting free.

You could name some coins out of your portofolio when you can tell an entry and Target,
if you feel save and find them worth to share.


greetings

YOBIT IS SCAM , YOBIT IS SCAM , YOBIT IS SCAM meine Steuerdatei:
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alt19 (OP)
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July 06, 2015, 09:01:15 PM
 #31

i guess you mean VTC is 10x over its low.
Zet is not. ZET is about 1,2x over its low and can be bought really cheap.
At the Moment i ride LTC, and bought IFC from my last profit.
IFC is like ZET quiet cheap right now(1x over its low).
As i said earlier i recommend splitting orders (scale in and out) at all times,
to get a better entry and exit.

Anyway if you don't feel good with my recommendations, no problem Smiley.
Any investments need confidence to not sell it too early.
My main focus is at the moment on forex,
maybe i publish other coins later when i have new capital/profit for reinvesting free.

You could name some coins out of your portofolio when you can tell an entry and Target,
if you feel save and find them worth to share.

greetings

http://alt19.com/19R/chart_showing_btc.php?shw=1&label=ZET_BTC&source=cryptsy&period=1day

2015/03/20 0.00000226 
2015/05/28 0.00003289
2015/07/05 0.00001562

I slightly remember 100-150 Satoshi in 2013. I wish I would buy ZET this March. A coin is not bad really, thank you you've reminded about it.

In my opinion it is better to invest in large amount of coins, traded on Cryptsy. Why?
Because Cryptsy is the only exchange that doesn't delist coins. There were issues with Mintpal and Bittrex when trading there.

If you buy or sell 100 different coins, you have no problem with liquidity. That is why index investing is great, in my opinion.
If you buy one coin only, and you are a whale, it would be difficult to sell your coins when price rises x10 or x50.
If you ask about middle cap and quite liquid coins, I could recommend RDD, EAC, MOON, if about less liquid and small cap favors there can be OPAL, MYR, NOBL and old veterans like BQC, TRC... Ultra small cap (experimental): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1092465

I think now it is good time to buy altcoins. Trend is up since Jan 2015. When to exit? I don't know now, I will look at altcoin index trend, I will read news. If LTC price is $50 or $25-$30 there may be long term local maximum of LTC and of the whole alt-coin market.

There is a problem of attacks for small coins, but if a coin is listed on Cryptsy, they are motivated to defend it, to keep looking if there are blockchain reorganizations and to audit accounts. Because if 51% attack happens, it will affect an exchange. There is a lot of discussing on 51% attack, but I don't remember even one incident with old and small coins on Cryptsy since 2013. What I remember: CENT was broken and delisted but then fixed and relisted, and LGD (Legendary) coin was delisted as it had an exploit inside (suspected coin developer manipulation of generated coins). 2 coins only from ~300, if you know more incidents with Cryptsy coins, please share.

Certainly investing in Litecoin is great. But there are some limitations. I don't see that LTC market cap can be higher than market cap of Bitcoin, maybe after 30 years, when next generation comes, not earlier. Previous maximum of $50 for LTC will matter also and I doubt LTC price can rise more than x5 times from current value this year.
With high valued coins the problem is that you never know what the minimum will be when price is starting to decline. For ultra small market cap coins you can simply buy all coins when market cap is under $5,000 and thus be sure that price will not be lower. You can not say the same about high valued coins with margin trading.

One important thing about altcoin market that it is not similar to stock market. Coins are not stocks, coins are currencies. So there are no penny stocks, no bankruptcy, no dividends. Things that matter: inflation (deflation), price fluctuations, liquidity, a number of users who use and trust this currency, name, security, usability and what you can buy or sell with it. But if somebody tells you: we have BTC, we have LTC, why do we need DOGE or other coins, that is not correct. There are many traditional currencies, not only dollar and euro. There are precious metals and stones, not only gold and silver. Diversity. Many nations. Many ideas. A lot of people. We all have pretty similar DNA and consciousness but it doesn't mean we all are simple clones of each other. Currencies (coins) are quite similar, too, the same technology often, but the spirit of their community, name, fortune and history make them all different.

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July 07, 2015, 01:43:27 PM
 #32

For ZET,yes its correct that they where by ~150 Satoshis low,
But i dont think its practical to assume that this price will hit again, since the bull market has started.

For TRC i must say, it showed heavy weakness(massive downtrend) even before the peak of 2013,
and did not perform like all other coins which peaked with bitcoin. The TRC peak was more a retracement in an Downtrend.
50-70% Less performance of other coins on the Peak at 2013.
FTC had similar bad charts, its vanished from  Cryptsy atm.


BBQ on the other hand seems like immortal, came so often back thats really interesting.

YOBIT IS SCAM , YOBIT IS SCAM , YOBIT IS SCAM meine Steuerdatei:
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socoban
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July 07, 2015, 01:48:23 PM
 #33

i guess you mean VTC is 10x over its low.
Zet is not. ZET is about 1,2x over its low and can be bought really cheap.
At the Moment i ride LTC, and bought IFC from my last profit.
IFC is like ZET quiet cheap right now(1x over its low).
As i said earlier i recommend splitting orders (scale in and out) at all times,
to get a better entry and exit.

Anyway if you don't feel good with my recommendations, no problem Smiley.
Any investments need confidence to not sell it too early.
My main focus is at the moment on forex,
maybe i publish other coins later when i have new capital/profit for reinvesting free.

You could name some coins out of your portofolio when you can tell an entry and Target,
if you feel save and find them worth to share.

greetings

http://alt19.com/19R/chart_showing_btc.php?shw=1&label=ZET_BTC&source=cryptsy&period=1day

2015/03/20 0.00000226  
2015/05/28 0.00003289
2015/07/05 0.00001562

I slightly remember 100-150 Satoshi in 2013. I wish I would buy ZET this March. A coin is not bad really, thank you you've reminded about it.

In my opinion it is better to invest in large amount of coins, traded on Cryptsy. Why?
Because Cryptsy is the only exchange that doesn't delist coins. There were issues with Mintpal and Bittrex when trading there.

If you buy or sell 100 different coins, you have no problem with liquidity. That is why index investing is great, in my opinion.
If you buy one coin only, and you are a whale, it would be difficult to sell your coins when price rises x10 or x50.
If you ask about middle cap and quite liquid coins, I could recommend RDD, EAC, MOON, if about less liquid and small cap favors there can be OPAL, MYR, NOBL and old veterans like BQC, TRC... Ultra small cap (experimental): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1092465

I think now it is good time to buy altcoins. Trend is up since Jan 2015. When to exit? I don't know now, I will look at altcoin index trend, I will read news. If LTC price is $50 or $25-$30 there may be long term local maximum of LTC and of the whole alt-coin market.

There is a problem of attacks for small coins, but if a coin is listed on Cryptsy, they are motivated to defend it, to keep looking if there are blockchain reorganizations and to audit accounts. Because if 51% attack happens, it will affect an exchange. There is a lot of discussing on 51% attack, but I don't remember even one incident with old and small coins on Cryptsy since 2013. What I remember: CENT was broken and delisted but then fixed and relisted, and LGD (Legendary) coin was delisted as it had an exploit inside (suspected coin developer manipulation of generated coins). 2 coins only from ~300, if you know more incidents with Cryptsy coins, please share.

Certainly investing in Litecoin is great. But there are some limitations. I don't see that LTC market cap can be higher than market cap of Bitcoin, maybe after 30 years, when next generation comes, not earlier. Previous maximum of $50 for LTC will matter also and I doubt LTC price can rise more than x5 times from current value this year.
With high valued coins the problem is that you never know what the minimum will be when price is starting to decline. For ultra small market cap coins you can simply buy all coins when market cap is under $5,000 and thus be sure that price will not be lower. You can not say the same about high valued coins with margin trading.

One important thing about altcoin market that it is not similar to stock market. Coins are not stocks, coins are currencies. So there are no penny stocks, no bankruptcy, no dividends. Things that matter: inflation (deflation), price fluctuations, liquidity, a number of users who use and trust this currency, name, security, usability and what you can buy or sell with it. But if somebody tells you: we have BTC, we have LTC, why do we need DOGE or other coins, that is not correct. There are many traditional currencies, not only dollar and euro. There are precious metals and stones, not only gold and silver. Diversity. Many nations. Many ideas. A lot of people. We all have pretty similar DNA and consciousness but it doesn't mean we all are simple clones of each other. Currencies (coins) are quite similar, too, the same technology often, but the spirit of their community, name, fortune and history make them all different.



I agree 100%, buying broad spectrum of cheapest coins on Cryptsy is the best way how to earn big profits on next uptrend. I already own 80-100 different coins. If cryptsy bancrupt, than it doesn't matter if you own ZET or shit coin, it will drop value heavily. Since Cryptsy does not delist coins, you can earn much more on cheapest coins. Investing $100/ per coin into 50 cheapest coins is much better for big gains than investing them into expensive Cryptsy only coins.  For me, I divide Crypto in 4 categories. 1) BTC  2) LTC 3) PPC, NMC, NVC  4) Others traded on cryptsy.  I hold 1,2, and the cheapest of 4. There is no reason to buy coins with  big market cap traded only or mostly on Cryptsy. Such coins pump rarely, and if so, than the risk of dumping is pretty high. Cheapest coins don't lose value on dumps. And all of them have pretty similar risk of losing value by Cryptsy bankruptcy or hack.  In fact, if there will be hack, hacker will steal expensive coins:)  
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