Bitcoin Forum

Hey everyone.

It's been over 2 months now since BFL's ASICs officially went on pre-order.

I am selling one (1) spot in line for a 1st-day-ordered Jalapeno from order #1769 (the first ASIC order was #1656).  I paid immediately with Bitcoins as opposed to a bank transfer so that my place in the shipping line would be solidified quickly. 

With every passing day, BFL receives more ASIC orders - orders that will inevitably drive up difficulty once shipped.  This means that the very first ASIC orders will be more valuable in terms of mining-time:profit than ASICs ordered today, and this will become more and more true as time goes on. 

Accordingly, I am looking for 90 BTC.  I will consider other offers.  I am in no rush to sell, and as time goes on, I presume the 90 BTC price tag will look more and more appealing.

If you buy, I will send the Jalapeno via overnight mail the day after I receive it from BFL so you can get it up and running ASAP for maximum profits in the first few weeks.

And so it begins.

Wouldn't it be cool if this guy^ didn't troll every for sale thread and post his unasked for opinion???   ::)

It would be much much much cooler if Jalapeno's were worth 90btc.

lulz
inb4 someone mentioning my ignore status.

That's what one of mine is worth to me, give or take.  Do the math with a few ballpark figures.  At only 2 months, strict ballpark figures suggest that 90 BTC is a bit high.  Liberal ballpark figures suggest that 90 BTC is realistic.  At 3-4 months, 90 BTC should look pretty damn good.

How do you figure? Assuming that 1) difficulty only doubles and then stays steady, and 2) The block reward halving doesn't happen in this time frame it would still take four months to earn back 90BTC.

Obviously the block reward halving will happen, and difficulty won't stay constant at 5M or so.

I think you are looking at 25 btc at the high end. If it's worth 90btc to you then you should keep it.

I bid 27 BTC

Lulz http://www.ebay.com/itm/Butterfly-Labs-Bitforce-BFL-Jalapeno-Pre-Order-3-5Gh-s-Bitcoin-Miner-ASIC-/251137750996

Sold out.. That was damn fast...

Noted, but no thanks.

Where do all those suckers come from?
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25620464.jpg

This is how I figure:

1)  First-day Jalapeno ASICS should arrive pre-reward drop.  This makes every day mining pre-reward drop instantly about twice as valuable as day mining post-reward drop.

2)  I am also from the US, so my order should arrive before international orders.  This should help maximize profits in the first critical few days/weeks.

3)  Consider what the difficulty will be during those first 2 months after the first ASICs are shipped versus the difficulty after 2 months.  If the difficulty increases by a factor of 4, then mining during the first 2 months will be approximately 4 times as valuable.  Couple this with the reward drop and any pre-reward drop mining will be 8 times as valuable.  Of course, difficulty may increase by more or less than a factor of 4, but you can substitute any number you think is realistic. 

If one Jalapeno is about ~$150 USD, or about 14 BTC, then that means that asking 90 BTC is assuming that a first-day ordered Jalapeno is about 6.4 times more valuable than a Jalapeno ordered today.  Will you make 6.4 times as many BTC with it in the first 2 months?  Maybe.

4)  Because the difficulty will only continue to go up, first-day ordered ASICs will only become more and more valuable relative to ASICs ordered today.  This offer should become more appealing with time.

It doesn't work like that. You might think the Jalapeno is worth BTC90, but I can't see anyone else seeing it that way. At BTC90 you would likely never make your money back.

1) The reward drop will likely be less than two months from the date you get it with the sudden speeding up the the network causing the difficulty retargets to lag the blocks found, but that's best case assuming BFL gets these into people's hands third week of October.

2) The person who buys this from you would get it online after all the other North American first day orders have already got theirs, so they won't get nearly as much low difficulty time as others.

If difficulty only doubles with that first batch and never again increases, you'll be making BTC0.7/day before the reward drop.  In that case, you would earn BTC42 before the block reward halving. After that you'd make BTC0.35/day. It would then take another 137 days to finish paying off the BTC90 you spent.

In this extremely unlikely best case scenario, it would take 200 days to make back your investment. Much more likely is that you would never recoup your BTC90.

During that next 137-200 days, difficulty will only continue to go up as the rest of the asic orders ship so it will extend that even further.

Even bigger lulz... the buyer resisted with a slightly higher asking price. Seems he thinks he can mooch more profit off his success. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251140250131

Hey man, free bump!

Bump.

Entertaining offers.  If the offer is too low, I'll entertain you instead.

Edit:  Offer needs to be greater than yochdog's 27 BTC.

Oh cool, we have a court jester! :D

Price > or = to the (cost of the Jalapeno) + (BTC earned in 2 months with first-day ASIC - BTC earned in 2 months with ASIC ordered today)

The price will thus increase with time given that the difficulty continues to increase with each ASIC shipment.

Cost of Jalapeno = 15 BTC + shipping (approximately)
BTC earned in 2 months with first-day ASIC = 42 BTC (your assumption, approximately)
BTC earned in 2 months with ASIC ordered today = 21  BTC (based on your assumption of .35 BTC/day and where 60 days = 2 months)

21 + 15 = 36 + shipping.

So, based only on your assumptions, it's at least 36 BTC.

Points being made include:

1) The 36 BTC value estimation (if accurate) will only increase the longer this offer stands because the difference between BTC generated  with a first-day Jalapeno and BTC generated with a today-ordered Jalapeno will continue to increase.

2)  There is a good chance to make more than .7 BTC/day in the first few weeks after this is received due to delays in arrival times of shipments to International destinations.  Mine was ordered to the U.S. and immediately paid for with BTC, so there is a very good chance it will be included in the first shipment and received days/weeks before International orders in the same shipment.

Bump!

Entertaining offers above 45 BTC.

Bump.

15?

I'm looking for offers 45 BTC or greater to entertain.   45 BTC is completely justifiable and is arguably a low-ball figure.

Selling price = Cost of Jalapeno + BTC generated during x number of days (where x = the number of days between the current date and the date when my order placement was secured).

It's been approximately 3 months since I ordered my Jalapeno.  That's about 90 days.  So, you're looking at the cost of the Jalapeno, plus the amount of BTC that you would generate in about 90 days with that Jalapeno.

I wager 600 quatloos on the newcomer!

That makes absolutely no sense. Why would you look at the number of days between your preorder and now?

so by that logic my SC that I ordered would be worth 60/4.5 = 13.33 x 45 = 600. Hell yeah anyone wanna buy a SC for 600 BTC!!!  lol

Let's say you order a Jalapeno today and it arrives in February.  You spent 15 BTC, and now you're trying to earn back your 15 BTC.  How long will this take you?  Just to throw out a number, let's say it takes 3 more months to generate the remaining 15 BTC.  So, by May you will have a 100% ROI.


Now, let's say that you spent 60 BTC and purchased my Jalapeno and it arrives to you in November (3 month difference).  Let's say that by February you've generated 45 BTC with it.  This means you have 15 BTC remaining to generate to recoup your investment.  Now, again let's say it takes 3 more months to generate the remaining 15 BTC.  Again, by May you will have a 100% ROI.

In both cases, the buyer makes out the same.  In each case, the buyer achieves 100% ROI at the same point in time.

The whole idea is to set a value on a first-day ASIC such that the time at which 100% ROI is achieved will be the same as an ASIC ordered today.  That's why the number of days between orders matters.  If you exclude the difference in BTC generated over those 3 months, 100% ROI will be achieved faster the earlier the product is received.  It is not hard to imagine that 100% ROI for a first-day ASIC will be achieved 5 times faster than for an ASIC ordered today.

I see, you're running on the assumption that a 90 day difference between now and when you ordered will translate into a 90 difference between when you receive your unit and when one ordered today will arrive. I don't think that's likely at all; at this point BFL has indicated that they plan to have the preorders cleared out by the end of the year, and it's looking increasingly likely you won't receive your Jalapeno until at best midway through November, most likely towards the end of November. It's more likely that a Jalapeno ordered now will arrive maybe 45 days after yours, not 90.

Let's say in a good case you get your Jalapeno on November 18th. We'll be around block 208656 by then, assuming 10 minutes a block. Assume that the upward trend lately flattens off, and the network hashrate stays around the 25TH/s it is now. You start hashing right when you receive it, and so do 75TH/s worth of other units in the BFL first batch. It would take two days to reach the next diff adjustment at block 209664 and you'd make 2.6BTC in those two days.
You'd make another .45BTC in the 1.4 days before the block reward halving. You'd make another 2.0 before the next diff adjustment at block 211680 around Dec 4th.
Sometime around there, ~42 TH/s of bASIC will be coming online. Say they don't hit until after the adjustment so you still get to mine with the 100TH/s difficulty. In the next 10 days before difficulty is readjusted, you'd earn 1.12BTC.
Let's then say no other hashing power come in and you mine for 14 days on a 142TH/s network between the 14th and 28th. You'd make 1.6BTC.
Say on the 29th another 100TH/s of BFL product comes online as they finish clearing out their preorders now that they have their inhouse line running. The net is 80TH/s, as 20TH/s of GPU miners finally throw in the towel. You'd make another 1BTC between then and the next diff adjustment on Jan 7th.
Nothing is then added onto the network until January 21, when the Jalapeno ordered today arrives.

Between the 7th and the 21st, you'd earn another 1BTC, bringing your total earned between November 18th and January 21st to 10.3BTC. That's pretty damn good for a 2 month span for a device that costs $150.


That's assuming
1) People get their BFL ASIC on Nov 18th
2) BFL only ships 75TH/s in the first batch.
3) BFL doesn't ship another ~100TH/s until the end of December to clear their preorders
4) A Jalapeno ordered now won't ship until Jan 21st
5) Avalon won't come along in January.

Right now a Jalapeno will set you back 16BTC with shipping. There's almost no way that you would earn 30BTC between when you get yours and when someone ordering now will. You might earn 10, if you're lucky.