Bitcoin Forum

Hello, my name is Dank and as many of you may know, I have a multitude of business ideas I would like to begin implementing but lack the capital to get started.  I'd like to open a hookah lounge in my city, it's a very profitable and sound investment, here's why:

My city has over five colleges, leaving a huge, young customer base.  There are currently no hookah bars operating in my city, the only one that existed has temporarily stopped serving hookah to focus on the restaurant side of business.  I know for fact students would appreciate having a hookah lounge to smoke at, giving me total control over the market in a town of over 50,000 college students.  A hookah bar manager in a neighboring city (with competing lounges) makes $9000 in profit each month.  My hookah lounge will have a unique, multi-themed atmosphere, from eastern to psychedelic, to appeal to all audiences and offer a change from the ordinary, singular themed hookah bars.

What else will be great about my hookah lounge?  We'll accept Bitcoin, for one.  We'll be providing the highest quality shisha for extremely affordable prices.  We will provide live music on the weekends and operate late into the night.  We will also host promotion nights, for different colleges, to raise awareness.

Hookah lounge progress:

✓ Spreadsheet estimating profit
✓ Spreadsheet covering budget/expenses (WIP)
✓ Designed logo
✓ Designed promotional flyers
✓ Found suitable location for lease

Scheduled tasks:

✓ Discuss business model with attorney
✓ Discover all regulations, permits and licenses involved
✓ Further formulate a more-detailed business plan
✓ Register business with state
✓ Obtain loan from investor or bank (preferably Bitcoin investor)

The numbers:

The facility I'm looking at has a maximum capacity of 300-400 people, giving us maximum room for growth.  I'm sampling different methods to charge customers, my first idea is to charge $5/guest plus $5/hookah/refill.  These prices are very low for the industry, while they are also very promising from a business standpoint.

Assuming we can attract 96 customers/day, 16-12 people an hour for a two hour session, throughout a 6-8 hour period, we could earn $600/day on weekdays and $1800/day on weekends.  The total profit, with these measurements, minus cost for rent, supplies and employees, would amount to $13,630/month.  This leaves us ample room for other expenses and plenty of room to grow into a larger business.  If we could attract an additional four customers/hour, the figures would increase to $700/day or $19,300/month profit.

In addition to hookah services, additional income would be made off smoking accessory sales and food/beverages.  Tobacco pipes could be resold for 200% profit, adding anywhere from $1000-2000/month in profit.  Bottled water would resell for 600% it's price, at $1/bottle, adding a few hundred over the week.  I haven't been able to look into completely, yet, but snack items and possibly small meals will further provide additional revenue to our business.

I can provide the spreadsheet including this information, if you're interested in investing.

Loan terms:

I have no problem providing identification as requested.  I'm interested in any loan between 2000 BTC and 4000 BTC for a term of 1-2 years.  To adjust for price influxations between USD inflation and BTC, we would recalculate the payments, every month, relative to the initial start up cost.  For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.  If Bitcoin should rise to $20/coin within that period and USD loses 10% purchasing power, I would recalculate the loan to $48,400 giving us a payment of 101 BTC.  This protects me from BTC price variations and you from USD devaluation.

Basically, I will adjust for USD inflation.  We can go into more detail in a contract, optionally, the goal with these terms are to prevent either party losing out because USD hits the fan.

In addition to the interest payments, I would be willing to pay 5% of each months final profit, for three years.  If we make $10,000/month in profit for three years, you'll earn a total of $18,000 (in BTC, of course) on top of the principle and interest.

Thank you for your time, I'd be happy to take any questions you may have regarding my hookah business.

I'm sorry but without a real business plan, and including all of the expenses surrounding running a small business (taxes, accounting, insurance, and a business license just to name a few.) I doubt anyone will loan you that kind of money.

CR

I'd be willing to generate such a thing, no problem.  I'd like to gauge interest from investors with a basic plan, first.

Love to see real world Idea's on here. Hope it goes really well for you dank, I could flip a coin or two your way.

Thank you.

Let me add, I'm willing to work on the generous side when it comes to interest.

Sorry for being stupid, but hookah == hooker?

Not quite, this is a hookah, used to smoke flavored tobacco:

http://www.jugglinggypsy.com/images/hookah.jpg

Just a friendly suggestion.  I would recommend this weekend starting to come up with better numbers.    Use the thread to answer questions but you really need to flesh in your details.

Even something as simple as an excel spreadsheet can allow you to start to get a handle on your real costs.

For example you have $8/hr for labor.  As an employer you are required to pay the employer half of FICA (~7.65%) plus Workman's Comp Insurance is required in most states and costs extra.  You (or at the very least your investors) likely want some payroll system to handle tax deductions, remissions, and issue net paychecks to avoid that liabilty/penalty.  So that is just one of your budget items.Generally speaking for most employers labor costs about 200% to 300% of actual wages.  Even with no benefits, sickdays, nothing 150% of actual wages is a good starting point.

I plan on using the weekend to go over the details myself, I just got the idea today and wanted the hunt for investors to begin.

I will be talking to my attorney next week about the subject, as well.

Thank you, I greatly appreciate your input.

Dank,


Check this site out:  http://web.sba.gov/busplantemplate/BizPlanStart.cfm

It took me a month to write my 30+ page business plan and I've spent months since then refining it.  Starting a business is hard and not for most people, but if you are the entrepreneurial type this template should help you figure out what your business will look like.

In fact, given your business is 'legal' you should probably spent some time and find an SBA mentor to help you.  There is really no reason for you to seek funds here as you should be able to get a loan at any bank if your numbers are solid.

I have taken business classes in high school and my dad has taught me a good amount about it, as a child.  I was thinking of taking some classes/counseling for this specific model, I'll consider an SBA mentor.  I think it shouldn't be a problem, I hope to be running within a month though.

I would go through a bank as back up, but I wanted to give the Bitcoin community a chance, first, since I don't like banks.

Thanks for the feedback.

Got that right. ;D

You're welcome, but killing people with tobacco is just as wrong as selling them illegal drug paraphernalia. 

You're not the friend, sorry.  I'm not killing anybody with tobacco, they choose to do it themselves and it only kills you if you believe that it will.

so i guess those warnings on the cigarette packs were wrong all along?

Addiction is a disease, not a choice.  Learn some science about the dangers of tobacco. (http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/)  I feel very bad for your employees who may be subjecting themselves to a dangerous workplace out of economic necessity. 

A lot of people smoke when they're stressed.  A lot of people associate negative thinking with cigarettes.  Negative thinking is what causes sickness, it's created in your mind.  You can smoke cigarettes and as long as you don't let you're problems consume your life, you'll be fine.  Life is what you believe after all.

Based solely on this statement, I believe you must be quite young or quite naive or more likely both. If you aren't mature enough to know that smoking kills plain and simple, you're probably not mature enough to deal with the daily grind of running a small business.

CR

Have you considered what decor you're planning on going with. A welcoming ambiance would most diffidently increase you potential income, coupled with a proper name--Dank's Hookah Lounge (not bar).

http://wilmingtonillinois.weebly.com/uploads/5/3/5/2/5352083/9730386_orig.jpg

Note how welcoming this place is simply by incorporating barn wood in its decor. I'm located in Sandwich, Illinois, and I don't know where you're located, but if you're close, I'll being willing to supply you barn wood at cost plus.

"Smoke at Dank's, Dank's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run!"

~Bruno~

I don't think you should be judging one's business practices based on their beliefs.  I believe life is what you believe, because it is.  I believe sickness is caused by a weak soul, that's nothing to judge someone by.

Phinnaeus, I plan on having a somewhat psychedelic atmosphere, thanks for the offer but I want to cut the cost down on furniture, I don't think a style like that is within my budget (but I could be wrong).  You couldn't supply counter tops or coffee tables, could you?

The problem in reproducing that image isn't the furniture, it's the three hundred year old building :)

I believe in you Dank.

Also, don't let Rarity pirate another one of your threads.

hmm..
This is actually a good idea.

*edit* can someone check to make sure Dank's account hasn't been hacked ?? :P

Are you homeschooled?

No, I went through the public education system.  I guess I could be considered homeschooled in the mind.

As we all know education does not make people rich lol. Great ideas do with a great implementation, the only thing school measure is how much bullshit you will put up with to get a piece of paper.
http://collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

A list of about 1000 of them lol

Yeah, my school was shit.  It only prepares you for the system, I couldn't finish it.

Glad though, because my life has improved by multitudes since I left.

Dude, if tobacco only kills you if you believe it will, how did the first person to die from it die? He had no reason to think it would kill him.

*exhales*

Something to think about, man.



Some DUI/weed possession lawyer is going to get a very confusing phone call on Monday.

It's been established as a 'law' of our world that tobacco causes cancer.  Except cancer is caused by a weak soul, as all sickness.  So if you have a strong soul, you're not going to get cancer from tobacco.  First guy that died probably didn't have too strong of a soul, as with all the others that followed.

My lawyer is pretty good, and a pretty cool person at that.

Dude John Wayne died of cancer what the fuck

And?

I would like to see a formal business plan, i would also like to see a formal budget, and did you do research, do people in your area want a hookah bar? Are the age ranges of your area young and hip. I think I am with a lot of people we need more formal inofmration before sending a 1000 loan.

You probably will want to talk to Loganyche because he has a good idea of what soda people would want.  You'll also want to make sure to include at least one trash can in your business proposal.  

I've been working on a spreadsheet since last night.  Don't have all the expenses in, like insurance and taxes but so far the numbers reflect what I said in the OP.

My town has over 5 colleges, over 50,000 people aged 18-24.  I know for fact people would want to come here.

If the goddamn Duke doesn't have a strong soul, who does? Ringo Starr smoked 3 packs a day and he's still alive. Are you gonna sit there and tell me that Ringo fucking Starr has a stronger soul than John Wayne?

That's fucked up, man. I don't know if I'd trust you to run a hooka bar.

I'm not going to judge how strong someone I never knew was.  The dude was a strong actor, I can't say shit about how he felt inside though, I don't know what makes you think you can either.

He believed:

The figures in the spreadsheet assume we reach a maximum capacity of ~50-70 people on weekends.  The location I'm looking at could easily hold 200+ people, so this has potential to be a highly profitable business on the right days, over $5000 in a night.

Do not listen to poster, he is a known liar:

I regularly smoke hookah, it takes nearly two hours to smoke --> customers occupy the table more than two hours.
two Ppl generally share a hookah thus your revenue per customer may be less than your expectation.
ppl generally eat before, during or after hookah, so you will most probably need to prepare and serve  food which may bring extra challenges.

last but most important,  you will  borrow in BTCs and then spend them as USD thus exposing yourself to BTC/USD fluctuations.

how will you pay your debt if BTC shoots up to sky?

Hes not neccessarily lying... Marines aren't soldiers.  Generally speaking, soldier refers to Army. (Fun  fact: marines branched from the navy, and the air force branched from the army). I was in the military too, but I wasn't a soldier, I was an Airman.

I will give you that the air force is different from soliders, but marines are soldiers end of story. I have marine friends and I just called a couple of them they would agree soliders include marines. They also said lying about being in the services is the worst thing a person can do.

I know many marines who would be offended by being called a soldier, its not as cut and dry as you think...there is a LOT of rivalry between services.

That said, i know nothing about this guy, and yes, lying about serving in the military is about as low as you can go.



Vvvv Edit: you are seriously underestimating how proud marines are of their title.  Vvvv

Your being too technical, they are suppose to be referred to as "Naval Infantry" so solider would work, and I doubt is a offensive thing.

I wanted to work out a contract if that situation were to arise, so we can keep it valued relative to the start up cost.  So if BTC goes up by 10x, we would recalculate how much it would cost to buy the same start up materials in BTC, and add interest from there.

I plan on having a small menu of food while allowing guests to bring their own food in.

I did receive news today that the other hookah/restaurant lounge in my town doesn't even have hookah anymore.  That means I would have the only hookah lounge in a town of tens of thousands of young adults.

I'm very eager to get a loan for this venture, I'd be willing to pay pretty generous interest.  If you'd like, I could pay 5% of the each month's end profit for three years (plus the loan itself).  That'd be 6000 a year if we make 10k/month, 9000 a year at 15k and 12000 a year at 20k.  For the size facility I'm looking at, the loan will need to be on the higher end of 2000 BTC.  I checked out the location today and it is perfect.  Huge, beautiful building, could surely guest more than 300 people.

I have no problem disclosing identification and/or signing a contract for this loan, I just want to get it happening.

You should probably find out why that other bar doesn't sell Hookah anymore. These things happen for a reason.

Because they're primarily a restaurant, not a hookah lounge.  If I'm not mistaken it was a higher-end restaurant, the restaurant part was probably outperforming the hookah part, not many people want to pay the price for a nice meal if they just want to smoke hookah.  My environment will be better as well.

But wouldn't the hookahs bring them more custom?

If a competitor has recently pulled out of the market, you need to find out exactly why that is. 

Not if they require you to pay $20 for a meal to smoke hookah, no.  It's not like it's illegal to smoke hookah here, or anywhere to my knowledge.

I'll do what I can to see why they stopped, but I'm sure it was just a matter of business.

what about bankruptcy, lets say this goes all to hell. How would one get at least their initial investment back?

This is not the only business idea I have, I will use the revenue from this project to create other businesses.  The supplies put into the building would still retain much of their value, and are most of the start up cost.  I will also be pretty good at guitar at one point, this will give me place to perform and expand that venture as well.

But how, realistically, could this go bankrupt?  I don't believe it would happen.

https://i.minus.com/iIpYIVx4kGRuQ.png

wow, i guess we don't need white blood cells after all.

I live in South Beach, Miami. Population ~5.5mil. Known party town. The local hookah bar is lucky to have 40 ppl on a holiday weekend. /dose of reality

They're doing something wrong.  I've been to a hookah lounge that had 100+ people on weekends till 3am.

How much did they charge?  How big/nice was the facility?  Did they have live music, like I will?  Did they have an exotic atmosphere or a beat down one?

I know someone is making $9000 in profit/month in a city near me, a city that has multiple hookah bars.

They are expensive but keep in mind cocktails are $16 each here. College town probably has more demand (less "hipsters" more "Kardashian" types here). Even going by your numbers 100+, the jump to 300 is a big one. Most small business plan on no profit the first year. Not trying to troll just some advice!

There's more hipster type people here, something I think would be beneficial to a hookah business.  I don't think this is like most small businesses, this is a unique market which I can dominate if I could get a loan.

I'm also going to go all out on promoting the hookah lounge, I'm getting people to distribute custom flyers I'll design at different colleges and I will have promotional nights to raise awareness after we open.

The numbers are simply here.  I was originally thinking of starting a smoke shop, no hookah lounge and even then I could see it generating a small profit (couple thousand a month) but with this model we can combine the two and the hookah turns out to be a more profitable business.

You were not planning to check ID when you were planning the illegal paraphernalia shop, will you be doing so with the bar?

I'm going to ignore you due to the fact you're continuing to spout misinformation.

You admitted everything I have said about you, no need to discuss it over again.

 I have asked you a very simple yes or no question, will you check ID for your Hookah Bar business in accordance with the law?

Obviously.

I'm glad to hear it, but no it's not obvious when you just spent pages and pages arguing against age verification in another thread for a business that this one evolved from.

No, I didn't, I said the customer agrees to be at least 18 by purchasing.  Just like you agreed to certain terms when you registered here.  This is not a subject to discuss in this thread, however.

So, you aren't going to check ID at the door for the Hookah Bar just ask people to agree they are 18?  You realize their agreement does not verify anything, right?  If the police send in people to test your security you are going to be fined for not checking ID.  If you decide to carry on like that you will eventually lose your business.

Carry on.

You keep mentioning students as your primary demographic. Do you realize students have no buying power and will keep sipping that single Coke they ordered for 5 hours?

Do you realize how high the cost is to keep a full complement of beverages refridgerated? Because in existing bars this is a major issue.

Do you realize the costs associated with sanitary measures like wiping that puke off the walls of that toilet?

Do you realize the extent of the contracts you have fulfill to even be delivered that beverage your customers are screaming for?

I don't think he is talking about serving alcoholic beverages, unless I missed it.  That makes it all a lot less complicated.  Hookah lounges have a lot of Middle Eastern/Islamic influence so booze isn't a big part of the equation there. 

Don't students, at nice schools, get handouts from their parents?  I'm sure plenty of students have $10 to go to a hookah lounge.

I'll have a refrigerator with bottled waters and sell them a dollar a pop ($4 for a two dozen box, $24/box, 600% profit).

Puke off a toilet?  What type of place do you think I'm running?  This place is going to be a respectable business.

I'm not even going to be serving alcohol.

You are going to want to do coffee and tea and fruit juices too.  Make it a nice place to hang out like a Starbucks but with smoking and a more relaxed atmosphere.  You will need breakfast and lunch traffic to make up for not serving alcohol in a college town on the weekends.  Best bet is to lose the smoking entirely because the smoke drives away non-smokers and it's immoral to kill your customers. Do an Arabian style coffee house instead of a hookah lounge.

No.

Dank, have you abandoned the "buy me a car and a mansion, I'll pay you back when I'm a millionaire rockstar" investment plan?  Has that paid dividends yet?

Now you want people to buy you a business too?

It seems like you want bitcoiners to fund your entire life.  Truly, a captain of industry.

I'm still going to be a rockstar, but I need to do things before I get there.  I don't want a mansion, though it'd be nice to have a new car that doesn't have ants and mold in it.  I'm more focused on having people lend me money for business ventures rather than personal desires, not that I wouldn't take a loan on a car.

I think people should want to fund my life, anyone who believes in my dream anyhow.  I offer the best returns and this hookah business is a solid opportunity for an investor.

A Hookah bar in a college town, but no alcohol?  Who's gonna go to that?  What college town are you in?

They can get drinks their self.  A town that would really appreciate a hookah lounge, demographics couldn't be better.

So, you have plans to complete market research that shows it's a town that would really appreciate a hookah lounge?  You said one just went out of business leading me to believe that your assumption could be wrong. 

What would you accomplish with $10-20k? With rent, labor, insurance, taxes, renovations, permits, stock, plus living expenses before you start turning a profit, I'd say that if market research shows that it would be a wise endeavor to pursue, you would need at minimum 10 times the amount you're asking for.  And, that's assuming that you would be seeing immediate traffic.  What's your previous experience in restaurant/service industry management?

They didn't go out of business, they stopped serving hookahs.  It still operates as a restaurant.

$20k would be enough to get started, I haven't finished budgeting but 18-20 quality hookahs would cost $2000.  Set $6000 aside for rent, $5000 for furniture, $2000 for electronics and we have $5000 to spare.  I'm going to do most of the labor myself.  Why would I need $100,000 to open a hookah bar?  Sure, I can spend that much, but I can pass by with $20k and expand from there.

Due to the size of the facility I want, now, $30k-$40k may be more suitable as to finish the entire building, but I could make it happen off $20k.

Remodeling can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.  A commercial property broker will only let you have that work done by licensed professionals.  You should have enough of a line of credit to sustain the business for at least a year with the assumption of very little revenue.  If you are profitable immediately, great.  Then you pay back your lenders.  If you're not profitable immediately, then you have to have a good chunk of cash to keep the bills paid while making attempts to attract customers. 

It's worth thinking hard about smoking regulations and where they're heading Dank. My feeling is the writing is on the wall for businesses which allow tobacco to be smoked on premises. It would be a shame to see you spend all this time and money setting up a bar only to have the govt regulate you out of existence shortly thereafter.

Good luck.

I am still in negotiations on that matter and even once committed I will delegate responsibilities accordingly.  Details remain confidential.  I know you are upset to have missed out on this but your time has passed.  Please have respect for our young friend Dank and do not try and make this thread about me. 

How is the other bar doing? How many customers do they have per night? What is the square footage of their premises? How many employees do they have on the payroll? Does it stay open during the vacation, when students are not on campus?

Since you're posting here, why not write "We will also accept Bitcoin"? A Bitcoin Hookah lounge may be more attractive to lenders or investors.


You should be seeking a USD loan, not a BTC loan. If the USD/BTC rate increases, it may become very difficult to reimburse your loan. Also, the USD lending rates would be much lower.


Are you looking for lenders (who will get their money back + interests) or for investors (who will get dividends as long as they hold the shares)? What access to the business accounting information would they have? If you're looking for investors, will they have any voting rights?

Lenders will probably request much higher interest rates given the risk of this business failing, especially if no property is put as collateral. Investors will be there for the long term, but it means that you would share the profits forever should your venture succeed.


That happened in France, and many hookah bars became fast foods when smoking inside any public place got banned.

Is this on purpose or an epic typo?

My local Hookah bar makes more money off the alcohol than the hookah - particularly among students you'll probably find that the alcohol revenue is required to make this business really work.

Thanks for the invite. However I prefer drinking in a... you know... bar.

The facility is very nice as is, there's no need to spend that much remodeling.  The only 'remodeling' I'm going to be doing will be putting up decoration, room dividers and furniture.

I won't live in fear of something that hasn't happened.  Actually, there is already a smoking ban, for bars and restaurants, in my state.  Hookah bars continue to operate.  My lounge is neither a bar nor restaurant.  Also, hookahs do not qualify as smoking because the tobacco is never burned.

Thank you.

As posted earlier, the other bar (primarily a restaurant) has stopped serving hookah.

I don't like to post definites about something I've never took time to think over, I probably, 99% chance will accept Bitcoin but I've never looked over the procedure and requirements to do so.

As I said earlier, I would like to recalculate the loan, each time interest is calculated based off the initial loan size.  This would prevent BTC rates having an effect but would also secure against a declining USD value.  I will seek a USD loan from a bank if Bitcoin fails me on this one.

Preferably, a single lender.  I'm fine with generous interest rates, I don't think it will be an issue with this business.

That's great for them but I've already calculated the hookah revenue is all I need to make this business work.

That's great for them but I've already calculated the hookah revenue is all I need to make this business work.
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More profit = happier investors = get a liquor license  :P

I don't believe I could get one if I wanted to.  I don't like alcohol anyways, only on like, 4th of July parties.

One of the biggest reasons for failure in the restaurant/service industry is that owner/operators try to create their perfect place to eat, hangout, or bring their friends.  It doesn't matter that you don't like alcohol.  It matters if serving alcohol would be a necessary component in order to make the operation successful. 

And it wouldn't be a necessary component to make this operation successful.  I've already calculated that I can bring in $16,000 a month off hookah, alone.  People can get their own drinks and still have a good time at the only hookah lounge in the city.

Besides, I'm not of age to obtain such a license.

Rewrote initial post now that I've had time to look through the idea.

Are you accounting for VAT, because it doesn't look like you do?

We'll be operating in America, but no, I will add taxes into the spreadsheets when I have more information regarding them.

I dont know what state you live in, but in mine (Ohio) it is against the law to smoke indoors. There are exceptions, for businesses who make their primary revenue from tobacco sales. We have many hooka lounges in my area due to the vicinity to Dearborn, but they can only sell very small snacks ie candy bars and bags of chips. The most popular one here is 1 block from a major MAC University with a HUGE Middle Eastern customer base and the owner basically lives in the back in order to stay afloat. Not trying to bash your business idea, but the days of profiting from tobacco are gone

You know that what you're proposing is a total 0.2% interest for the whole loan duration, right? Far from 2%/month!

Also, you should use real formulas to make your simulations, especially if you want to be able to do an early buyout of your loan. For example, the first month you will generate 2% of 4000 BTC as interests, that is 80 BTC. If you reimburse 210 BTC, 80 of them are interests, while 130 of them will decrease the capital you still owe. The second month will generate 2% of 3870 BTC as interests, that is 77.4 BTC. Our of your 210 BTC, 77.4 will be interests while 132.6 BTC will reduce your debt. And so on.

According to my spreadsheet, tobacco (hookah specifically) is a very profitable business.  Without knowing anything about his business, it can't really be compared to mine, which does have numbers to back it up.

Sorry, I meant 2% of each months payment as interest.  I'll work out a formula when I know exactly what manner and how much interest we'll be dealing with.

What market data do you have to support any numbers on your spreadsheet? 

Also, since you have no track record in this industry that would support high risk venture capital investment, what do you have as collateral for a $20k-$40k loan? 

I've simply calculated potential revenue factored by things such as number of people/group, groups/hour, operational hours/day, and prices for various services.  My spreadsheet simply says if I can get 48 customers/day, 144 on Friday/Saturday and 96 on Sunday, I will earn $13,600 in profit each month.  That takes into account rent, material costs and wages.  For the size facility I'm looking at, these estimates are fairly low and could be doubled or tripled practically.

You're right, I have no track record, because I'm 18.  That doesn't mean I'm a high risk, I obviously have an idea of what I'm doing.  Dismissing someone's idea because they haven't done it yet or because of their age is fallacious.  This project isn't going to fail, I'm quite confident in my ability to attract 48 customers/day even though I would only need half that to turn profit.

So what can I offer in collateral?  Nothing now, tomorrow, everything.  I have to start somewhere before I get somewhere.

A good place to start would be getting some experience in the service industry.  A few years getting to know the ins and outs of everything that goes into managing such an operation would give investors confidence.  Without a track record, collateral, or even market research, and absolutely no monetary risk to yourself, you're basically asking for $40k for an idea.  Even with the best intentions, that is about as high risk as it gets -- You have zero chance of securing a loan with a bank.  We'll see what happens here.   

I did a project on managing restaurants in 7th grade.  I learned the same information in a high school business class, it's not that complicated that you have to plan for years before doing it.  As with anything in life, you just have to do it.  The idea that you need to work for somebody before doing things yourself is wrong.  

Anybody is capable of anything, I've demonstrated my capability to manage a profitable hookah lounge through numbers, you're saying I'm not capable of it because I haven't worked for a few years, which I think is ridiculous.

I have all the incentive in the world to make this hookah lounge as successful as possible, because I have a plan for my life.  I have goals including million dollar business ventures and becoming a rockstar, which I know I will reach.  This is a stepping stone to reach those goals, I'm not just suggesting I get a $40k loan for a hookah bar as a side job that may or may not succeed.  I will be putting all of my effort into this lounge to ensure it will succeed, no matter what.  That right there should be incentive for an investor.

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Well youre correct, his business can't be compared to yours. While his is an actual brick and mortar establishment, your's is merely a thrown-together business plan. And again, no offense intended, but hookah lounges aren't incredibly profitable as stand-alone businesses. Most are attached to established bars/coffee houses with a pre-existing customer base. Coming from a decade in the service industry with over half of those years in coffee houses WITH hookah lounges, its tough. To get the good seesha you have to order directly from UAE or Lebanon (trade with UAE is restricted). Importers in American sell sub-par quality seesha to white guys (again, not meant to be discriminatory, just a cold fact) at inflated prices. If you are interested more I would be willing to discuss more via PM and I can happily provide websites of both the places I managed as further proof.
Not trying to discourage you. If you have a corner on the market it is possible to overcome and become profitable after a couple years, theres just alot to consider. For instance, in some municipalities the ability to sell tobacco is linked to liquor licenses (limited by design)  

I guess we will find out, since it seems to me that hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service.  Not that I think it's appropriate to compare it with any existing hookah lounge, really, mine will have a huge 6000 square foot facility with live music, an attached smokeshop, downtown, with colleges all around.  I think I'll be turning profit in a few months, not years, we'll see.

Where are you getting the idea that "hookah is quite profitable as a stand alone service"?  You just had someone who actually knows a thing or two about the business tell you that it's not.   

My calculations.

Of course the environment is probably bigger factor, which we will champion too.

I live in a big State-College town and we have 3 (?) Hookah lounges here that I know of, all serve some sort of food also.  Regardless, if there aren't any other Hookah lounges in your big college town it shouldn't be too hard to succeed with proper marketing etc.

Thanks for the support.

We will also use diffused tips in our hookahs, for a smoother smoke.  Just another thing that will make us the best hookah lounge.

Dank, don't listen to people saying that you need to go out and work in the industry before actually starting a business. If this is something you want, go ahead and do it.

That being said, this business is very likely to fail even if you work hard at it. Deepak Chopra "If I will it I'll be successful" bullshit aside, most small service-based businesses fail in the first few years. Even if you had the history here to make people trust you with this kind of money, this would be a fairly high risk investment. You need to get a much more solid plan than a spreadsheet that say X people * $Y/person - rent = profit! if you actually want to start getting a real feel for the business and have them invest. If you're serious, you need to put in some serious legwork before coming around asking for investors. Thinking about what kinds of tips you'll use isn't part of a real business plan.

Good luck with this.

If you build it, I will come. 

http://i46.tinypic.com/28ti0wg.jpg

That's how I've always felt, if you want to learn how to do something, you don't watch other people do it, you do it yourself.

The spreadsheet's a little more complex than that, it's 40 lines long so far.  Once I talk to my lawyer and get an idea of regulations, licenses and taxes involved, they'll be added to the spreadsheet.  I'll probably take business counseling at a local college in the next week or two, as well.  Unfortunately, most everything I've ever planned in my life was planned in my head, I'll work to transfer it into a business plan over the next week.

I'm quite confident in this business and don't like waiting when I could be starting it, I hope an investor sees the potential I do.

Thank you.

@RodeoX Awesome.

Yeah, why on Earth would anyone need any experience in the industry in which they want to start a new business? The thing is, he is not doing anything.  He is asking for a handout.  He believes that his 7th grade business education and a few hours spent making up numbers on a spreadsheet based on nothing but his own intuition is worth someone forking over $40k.  No one with that sort of money invests in delusional children.  Well, he actually might find an investor a mark on this forum seeing as how there are many fools here asking to be departed from their coin.

I'm asking for a loan which I'll pay back at a fairly high interest rate, you call that a handout?  It's really not that complicated, you start the business and you run it.  Can I tell you what I'll be doing at this time each day when I have the hookah lounge running?  No, because I live in the moment and that's how you get shit done.

Also, this is an opportuity I have now.  There are no hookah bars in my city, now.  If I sit around for two years, guess what, there might be another hookah bar.  If I take this opportunity I have now, I will be able to establish myself with the entire city as they will have nowhere else to go.  I'll be most successful if this happens now.

By the way, I've spent over 24 hours gathering info and developing that spreadsheet, I've been working on it most of each day over the weekend.

I'm not a child, I'm a young adult becoming a man and if I've learned anything, the most important part of becoming a man is to get shit done, which I've been doing a lot of.  Where is the delusion in this?  Is it because my spreadsheet doesn't really exist?  Or do you really think no 18 year old has ever manifested creative business ideas into reality, successfully?

I never said he was. I was merely refuting the conjecture that he should go get some shitty job in the industry the earn his dues before opening a business. It seems you might have missed the rest of my post where I said that his current prep work is inadequate, that he needs to put serious work into a real business plan, and that even then this is likely to fail.

I like the Dank show even for all the shit I give him for his crazy ideas. It would shock me if actually succeeded in his goals, but I'd be happy to see it if he did. Sure no one here's going to give him $50k, but if he can get enough together to start this up it would be a great learning experience for him.

Hey Dank, you should shadow some Hookah bar owners/managers in nearby towns and buddy up to them. 

I would but I don't really have time for that, I'm more of the learn as you go kind of person, anyways.  I'm gonna have this thing up and running this year one way or another.

He would, but he's busy not having a job, making up numbers for spreadsheets, and asking for handouts.  Plus, he'd probably have to ask his folks for a ride.  There's really no sense in doing something that would give him real world knowledge of the business that he wants to start. 

Why not get the loan from the Bank of Dank? Do they think it is too high risk?

Making up numbers?  Would you like to review my spreadsheet and tell me what's made up about it?

I have real world knowledge regarding hookah.  I've smoked at hookah bars, I have a hookah sitting right in front of me.

I've run plenty of web based businesses, I know how it works, don't tell me I'm incompetent because I haven't done it the way you want.

There's no sense in waiting around when I have the opportunity to maximize profit now.  You're missing that part.

Out of curiosity, which city are you setting this up in?

I'd prefer not to disclose to non-investors at this time.

Yes, I would.  Post or PM a dropbox or google docs link. 

Seems like information anyone will be asking for before investing.

Right. How is anybody going to invest if you will not even share simple things like where it is, let alone important information like your identity?

Will PM.

I'm taking it bitcoinbear is not interested in investing, so why would I share that with him?  I have no problem talking details with people who are really interested.

See comment to Rarity.

Presumably, anybody who would invest is reading this thread. I assume this information would be useful to them. Therefore, I asked you so you could disclose it so they could see it. Plus I was curious.

I prefer to talk about specifics off a public forum.  The Internet's a scary place.

I don't think a state, for instance, is overly specific.  It determines a lot about the form and viability of the business.  Take a look at all the different laws out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

In a state like North Carolina you could open a hookah lounge but not be able to serve food.


In a state like Wyoming it would be no problem.


Whereas in a state like Wisconsin you would not be able to do it at all.


And of course any local area may have their own regulations as well.  Hard to determine a level of interest without some general location information.

He didn't ask for a state, he asked for a city.  I'm aware of these regulations and that's why there won't be a problem starting up.

So what are the local regulations?  Are you allowed to expand into food or beverages if you so desire or not?  Is there any talk in your state of increasing regulations?  Is a new smoking regulation why the other hookah lounge went to food service only?

Yes, we can serve food and drinks if we choose to.  The other hookah lounge is taking a temporary break from hookah, they operated with both before and probably will in the future.

Have you checked into whether your city/state requires you to have a liquor licence if you're going to allow people to bring their own alcohol and consume it on the premises?  Have you checked how much it will cost you to comply with local regulations regarding food and beverage service?  Have you checked into what commercial licences and insurances you will need in order to operate your business (it won't be "none") and their cost?  

Have you checked into the health department requirements applying to providing hookahs for the use of your clients and factored in the cost of meeting those requirements (you're likely not going to be allowed to let a new customer use a hookah which has just been used by someone else without decontaminating it in some way and/or swapping out mouthpieces)?  Are you even familiar with standard protocols for preventing the transmission of communicable diseases and their cost?

What are the local regulations, specifically?  Only ten states have no statewide smoking bans.  Alabama, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wyoming.   Are you in one of those states?  If not, have you consulted a lawyer so as to double check your understanding of the law?

Has anyone addressed that his business plan assumes $16k per month in profit, year round in a college town?  Does no one go home for summer vacation in your area?  You realize that bars and restaurants have busy seasons and off-seasons, right?  Even within the week there's slow days.

Do you have a backup plan in case your made-up numbers are wrong?  A contingency plan in case you're not making $16k like clockwork every month?  Do you really think the other hookah bar in town would close if they were making such comical amounts of money?

You're also predicting 200% markups in an industry known for razor thin profit margins, an industry which you have zero experience in (and no desire to gain experience in until bitcoiners buy you a fully-operational business).  You could spend the weekend getting stoned and watching Kitchen Nightmares and it would actually improve your business plan.  Think about that.


Seconded.  This should be good for a laugh.

Links to articles on starting a hookah lounge/bar.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/open-hookah-lounge-regulations-23199.html


If you're too young to get a liquor licence, are you old enough to get a licence to sell tobacco products?

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/start-hookah-bar-12606.html

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/start-hookah-lounge-business-13874.html

Sample business plan for hookah bar.

http://www.bplans.com/hookah_bar_business_plan/executive_summary_fc.php#.UE7Ut7Igeuk

http://www.bplans.com/hookah_bar_business_plan/financial_plan_fc.php#.UE7T_bIgeuk (financials)

Threads on another forum regarding starting hookah bars/lounges.

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10836

More stuff.


http://voices.yahoo.com/how-start-hookah-business-4807424.html?cat=3

I already said in the OP I was going to talk with my attorney, later this week.

Maybe freshman, at select schools, go home for parts of the year.  I know some schools keep students year round.  The backup, in case I don't make the modeled $13.6k/month profit, is that I can lose half my customer base and still profit.  My numbers are averages, I really wouldn't be surprised if they're also underestimates.  Again, the other hookah bar didn't close, the other hookah bar is a restaurant, and they stopped serving hookah, temporarily.  Apparently, they're more focused on being a restaurant, as are their clients that come there to eat.

Regarding the 200% markups, where is your evidence of that?  Headshops can easily turn a 200-400% profit on the right items.

Repentance, thank you for the links, yes I can get a license to distribute tobacco.

Who is your attorney?

None of your business.

If we are to rely on his or her legal advice to judge the quality of this investment it would be nice to have more information.  Your need for secrecy seems to be bordering on a level of paranoia which is unnecessary for a legitimate businessman such as yourself.  I hope you are not planning this business while on dangerous drugs. (http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2012/09/11/Testicular-cancer-linked-to-pot/UPI-57051347367613/)

I'm sure an attorney will be happy to take your money.  But, they'll also be really confused at the incoherent questions and the spreadsheets of made up numbers.  Their legal advice will probably be along the lines of, "I'm not sure what you're asking", "I would advise against this idea", and "have you ever had a job?"

You aren't relying on his legal advice, you're not investing.  It truly does not concern you who my lawyer is.

Once again, another article, completely unrelated to the thread, with no sources, no studies, no proof.

My attorney knows me quite well, he knows my plans in life and he supports me fully.  I love how you can predict conversations that haven't happened.

If an attorney supports you and your plans fully, why not ask him to be your investor? 

You are the one begging for a loan on a public forum.  I'm simply telling you what the public will want to know. 


You can look up the study yourself, but nobody is going to take your conclusions more seriously than what the USC doctors have said.  I hope your non-denial of current drug use does not suggest that you are still using.

Would that even work? It sounds as if dank is the attorney's investor already.

lol

Lawyers are legally obligated not to participate in such an activity.

Just because someone advocates truth over propaganda does not mean they use drugs.  I've shown several studies proving cannabis cures cancer, now you're making an unsupported claim saying it causes testicular cancer.  Burden of proof is on you.  Make your own thread if you want to spread your propaganda, it's completely irrelevant from this.

No, you have not.  As I have pointed out you mistake some chemicals found in marijuana showing tumor shrinking properties in some studies with "curing cancer" even though the same chemical shows the opposite in other studies.  Meanwhile,  actually smoking the plant itself is linked to things like the increase in testicular cancer which the study I just linked about shows.  You also argue that tobacco is perfectly safe so it's kind of pointless to even try and pretend you know literally anything about anything at this point though.


Are you or are you not currently an illegal drug user?  This is information investors should know.


What?  Maybe in some places, I don't know, but it's not that uncommon a practice.  There are ethical concerns (http://ipjournal.law.wfu.edu/files/2011/11/article.11.401.pdf) but it's generally allowed.

Generally you just need a lot of informed consent.  For example, here is the North Carolina rule:


http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/nc/code/NC_CODE.HTM#Rule_1.7

Your link was an article.  Not a study, learn the difference, these are studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442435
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14570037

And this is cannabis curing cancer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmviQBB5DHs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI

I never argued tobacco is perfectly safe, your distorting my words excessively.  It's, by far, the deadliest drug.

Regarding your last question, no.

No they aren't.  You should really ask the attorney whom you know to be an investor.  Besides, if he or she feels that there would be a conflict of interest, I'm sure the lawyer you know would be happy to take on an investor role and could bring in a colleague to handle legal issues.

Learn to stop being illiterate. I said I linked about a study, not to a study.  Your links to studies to do not back up your claims of a cancer cure nor do your video links to unscientific anecdotal stories.  



This is a claim that tobacco is safe and that negative thinking is the cause of dangers falsely attributed to tobacco. 

If you seriously think people talking about a study has more validity than an actual study, get out of here.  Stop being illiterate and read the studies.

BorderBits, I'm looking for an investor here, not my lawyer.

No, you can't just reverse what someone said like that.  Tobacco is not safe, it's dangerous, but you will not get cancer from it if you have a strong soul, as you only become sick with a weak soul.  It's that simple.

The person who conducted the study is quoted in the article.  A medical expert who has carefully reviewed the data.  You, on the other hand, are a drug addict who so misunderstands science that you think tobacco does not cause cancer but somehow see yourself as capable of comprehending studies better than medical experts.  Yes, I will trust the experts on this and enjoy my reduced risk of nut cancer.


Why would tobacco be dangerous if negative thinking is what causes the sickness, not tobacco?


Please link to the study that supports this claim.

I'm done with you putting words in my mouth.  You clearly will never be competent enough to grasp the concepts I'm portraying, not in this lifetime anyways.  Go make your own thread, get out of mine.

You attributed the dangers of tobacco use to specific causes.  Negative thinking and weak souls.  These words were not put in your mouth, they came out of it.  

Am I too surmise that you do not have any studies to back this up?  Don't get me wrong, I know it's true that many, many diseases are actually psychosomatic in origin but poisons and toxins and germs are real things that cause physical damage to our bodies.  Even with the many psychosomatic conditions, however, a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline is required to regain health.  It is not as simple as being weak or strong.

When did your dad pass the bar?

You can only study spirituality within your mind, not science.  Try using logic to disprove my claim that a weak soul causes sickness, otherwise, try using logic to understand my claim.

Once again, what does this have to do with my hookah lounge?

My dad is not my attorney and my dad does not understand nor support me the way others do.

I recognize the value of spiritual learning.  Are we in agreement, however, that all scientific learning shows tobacco, the product you are selling in your hookah lounge, to be an extremely dangerous product? 

And if the weak soul is what causes the sickness, why do you keep claiming that tobacco is what is dangerous?

Yes, I never stated otherwise.

If you recognize the value of spiritual learning, I'd advice you to meditate or something on the value of spiritual healing.

There's two ways to look at things, Rarity, it can be both.

If you were to expose yourself to enough radiation to induce a cancerous growth, could you prove your ability to resist it via spiritual means?  And if so, why don't you for the benefit of the rest of us?

And why on page 1 did you argue with someone who asked you if warnings on cigarette packets were wrong if you acknowledge the scientifically proven dangers the packets note?

Hey dank, why don't we both stand in front of an X-Ray machine until we get cancer.  Then, I'll go to doctors and chemotherapy, and you sit there and focus on your soul power or whatever.  Who do you think would survive longer?

To put it simply, life is what you believe, what you perceive to be true.  If you believe you're limited to earths physical boundaries, then you will be limited by them.  If you believe you're not, you won't be.

I would, you'd be wasted away by chemotherapy, which kills all your cells, not just cancerous ones.  I don't suppose you'd like to find out, would you?

Your resistance to disease can be easily proven without resorting to cancer.  For example, you and a control group could be exposed to a cold virus or other minor disease and we could see if you showed resistance.  This ability is entirely scientifically testable.

Do you have any other spiritual powers you could demonstrate for us?  Could you demonstrate your transcendence of Earth's physical boundaries by teleporting yourself to the moon, taking a picture, and returning to Earth with the photo as proof?

Not yet, maybe one day.  You have heard of supernatural occurrences though, right?

Hey Dank, how much have you raised so far for your hookah lounge?

Why not put it up on the GLBSE to get more donators investors?

None.  I don't want to use glbse since there's a minimum amount I need to get started.  It'd be much easier to work with a loan.

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.  Show proof of just one supernatural occurrence ever having happened.  And I mean real proof, not "a bunch of people said it happened".

Sorry buddy, reality just doesn't work the way you want it to.  I'm sure you'll argue though, so I'll just ask, by what mechanism does your perception of reality work?  If our minds really shape it, how?  And what happens if two people will opposite events?  Do they cancel out or does the universe split to account for both?  What is the process by which it works?  If you're so sure of it, surely you're aware of the mechanics by which it works.  If not, you're just pulling it all out of your ass, and you can't expect reality to mold itself around you.

If it does work, though, why aren't you a huge rock star yet?  And why do you need a loan?  Why not just will the bitcoins to you?

We live in a world that is definable by our observations and and experimentation.  Reality is not as malleable as you claim it is.  This should be evident in the fact that the thread right under this one got a 10000btc loan while you're still uploading shitty guitar riffs while basing your bank on the hope that you'll make it big in rock and roll.

Sorry to come down so hard on you, but no one gets anywhere with this Magical Thinking bullshit.  Live in reality, dank.

That's the problem, how can you have proof (evidence, measurements) of something that you can't measure?  Science is only useful to learn about our reality.  Sure, our reality doesn't work that way, but how do you know there isn't more to it?  Everything is energy, waves, we perceive things to be the way they are at a certain frequency.  Can you say, for sure, your dreams are any less real than 'reality'?  Have you ever experienced a dream with something from real life intruding it?  Like music, for example.

I didn't say life would mold itself around me, it will mold itself around all of us and we all play a role in that.

Life is but a dream.

It will come with time.  I've played guitar for like a month, time, my friend.

Anyways, related to the hookah biz, 10% of college students smoked hookah in the last 30 days, in 2011.  50,000 / 10 = 5000 people/30 days = 166/day.  70 more than my estimates, sounds like good business to me.
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/02/07/ntr.nts003.short

That's taking it a bit far, but Dank clearly is not taking the right steps to allow him the clarity to achieve such enlightenment.  Nobody who poisons their body with drugs will be in a clear enough state.

As I said before, cleansing your soul requires a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline that he simply does not display.  If you want to know more Dank send me a PM and I can give you some information about a spiritual group that can help you.  Your beliefs are not as far off from the truth as TheBible would have you believe.

Nice intro in that study:


I guess the sick advantage of setting up in a college town is that before your customers die on you they move away and new suckers show up for you to kill.

Don't you think that's a bit of a close minded view, considering our brain is made of drugs, we naturally make hallucinogens and psychedelics in our brain.

Holy crap. A lesson in objectivism from The Bible. Where am I? What's going on??

Never read the bible.

The physical damage of introducing chemicals to your body that don't belong there is not the only issue.  There is also the enslavement of the psyche to the drug and the false pleasure it produces and the damage the drug does to the spirit.  Spiritual clarity is essential to spiritual growth.  

Are you saying you have never read the Bible or that you suggest everyone else avoid reading it?

The former.

So it's okay to be jacked up on natural drugs within your body, but natural drugs that are found outside of our body are bad?

Do you know this by experience?

How much of your own money have you invested into your pie in the sky ventures?  It's one thing to say, "hey guys, I've already saved up $75k of my own money to start this hookah lounge, I just need about $25k more to be in a stable enough position to sustain this venture."

It's something else entirely to say, "Oh hey bros, I've got this half-baked idea to start a hookah lounge, here's a bunch of numbers I made up last saturday, please loan me $100k; I'll pay you back when the hookah lounge goes gangbusters or my rockstar career takes off, whichever comes first.  I'm going on a vision quest and using my mind-soul connection to cure leukemia, later bros"

Aside from being utterly ignorant of basic tenets of science and financial planning, you have zero skin in the game. Yet, you expect people to write you a blank check.  So you're somehow a dumber version of Atlas.  you at least own a hookah, that probably counts as more effort than he would have put in by now.

It's quite a hilarious read.
As Penn Jillette says, "Read the bible: we need more atheists!"

Anyone looking to grow spiritually should familarize themselves with all of the great religious works of mankind, from the Torah to the Bible to Dianetics to the Koran to the Vedas to the Adi Granth and many other works.  You cannot find true wisdom without looking at the world from every perspective.


Your body does what it does because of a successful evolutionary process that has produced a complex machine that we still barely comprehend.  Even treatment under medical supervision is a dangerous process that aims to balance harmful side effects with necessary treatments.  There is no such benefit to recreational drug use, it causes diseases and weakens the body for no reason but fleeting and false pleasure.  Short circuiting the reward pathways of the brain leaves you as a damaged individual unable to perceive physical and spiritual reality as you are meant to.  You have chosen a dull and temporary pleasure over the sublime understanding of true clarity and enlightenment. 

I'm 18, I've started from nothing, I have some money now, I'm trying to get somewhere, I don't have a silver spoon feeding me.

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post since it was fueled by several inaccurate condescending remarks and insults.  Somehow I'm the dumb one, yet I don't get mad at people on the internet.

You find true wisdom within yourself, not perverted religious doctrines.  You know how I learned everything I have?  I thought.  I didn't seek answers from others, I thought for myself.  Tell me Rarity, how do you know anything if you've not experienced/seen it for yourself?  You don't, because you cannot know anything that you have not experienced or felt.

Are you currently employed?  If not, how are you currently paying your rent and bills?  


I have had true spiritual experiences and operate on a level of clarity far beyond what you can currently comprehend in your depraved state of confusion and drug abuse.  My spiritual group has helped me achieve my successful business career with all the wealth that brings and helped me to develop stronger bonds with my family and friends and communities even as I have moved an ocean away.  

A spiritual understanding focused solely on the self and your own thoughts is one of fear of new and challenging experiences.  An individual who hides from pain with the false comfort of recreational drugs is a coward hiding from reality.  The better path is always focused on community and pursuit of truth and clarity.  

dank, if you're going to let every thread get derailed by Rarity you're going to have a hard time getting investors for any of your projects.  If you can't stay focused in a thread about something which is of considerable importance to you, no-one's going to trust you to stay focused for the 60 hours+, week in/week out commitment which actually opening and operating your proposed venture will demand.

Where's that link that you said you would send of your spreadsheet? 

All right. Let me get this straight...

• You intend on getting a 6,000 sqft area, and have only set aside 6K for 6 months rent. You are assuming that in a college town you will be able to rent a 6Ksqft shot within walking distance of at least one major college (preferably equidistant from all 5) for only 1K a month + deposits.
• You also claim that there is very little needed for renovations, because you will only be putting up decorations? Have you ever SEEN what an empty shop looks like before the work starts? Usually it's just a shell with possibly some load bearing beams, meaning you will have to install the bars, the seats, the cubbies, the stock room, everything.
• You claim that you won't have to worry about janitorial services because you are only running a hooka bar. Speaking as someone who has run a business before that had nothing to do with alcohol, tobacco or anything related, I *still* found vomit and feces splattered around the latrines. When dealing with customers ALWAYS assume the worst.
  
• You claim that you will pull in thousands of USD a week/month/day based on... umm.... magical thinking? Have you done the research on what the absolute slowest you can smoke a hooka is, and multiplied that time by 3? Because customers will pay the bare minimum for the most. Always assume the worst with customers. Your best bet to figure up income prior to getting through the first three months is max capacity/10 for the ENTIRE DAY.
• Have you included FICA, Unemployment, L&I, and everything else your workers will be needing? How much will you pay managers as opposed to servers?
• Have you looked into the prices of the tobacco that goes into the hookas? Did you remember that you will be ordering up to 30% more than you will use due to slippage?
• Have you determined how much it will cost for bouncers? Or do you plan on making supervisors/waitstaff do bouncing too?
• Will you have security cameras in place, and have you priced them?
• Have you computed how much alarm/security systems/service will cost you per month?
• Have you determined how much a safe will cost? How do you plan on securing the day's profits?
• Will you be offering punchboards and other gambling? Is it legal?
• What is your estimation of how many students may use your services and how did you arrive at it? Are you aware of the fact that a large percentage of students are on financial aid?
• How will you advertise and what is your estimation of cost?
• Have you computed how much estimated damage your equipment will take through customers and entropy? If so, how did you arrive at the figures?
• You claim that the other place has "temporarily shut down" their hooka service. Why? What kind of intake did they have? How much slippage did they suffer?
• What is the estimated cost for utilities per month?
• You realize that your 6,000 square feet is actually only 100ft x 60 feet, assuming rectangular area. What has been set aside for bathrooms (those are included in square feet), what is lost to internal walls, what is set aside for storage, what amount of the area will booths, bars, equipment, and service areas take up?
• Have you drawn (pro drafting, not on a fucking napkin) a layout of your proposed business based on available properties?
• Have you investigated maximum occupancy based on the available properties?
• You mentioned having different "theme rooms", how much will the decorations for each theme cost, how easily accessible will they be?
• Regarding the theme rooms, will you have closable doors, open door access, beaded curtains? Will you have soundproofing to ensure that each room's mood is not disturbed? If the room is enclosed how will you ensure that your customers aren't robbing each other, fucking, or shooting heroin into their balls? Always assume the costumer is a complete cretin
  
• How much will insurance cost on the building, what about liability insurance, and fire/flood/hurricane/smurf attack insurance?
• Will you have enough money to run the business for FIVE YEARS at a complete loss with zero income? Estimations show that for the first 5 years a business will always run in the red, and it is safer to have money set aside to keep the business going for 5 years even if you never have a single customer.
  
• Seeing as it is a college area, will you have parking? Will you have facilities for bicyclists?
• What other entertainment besides hookas will you have (do not list floor shows for this)? WIll you have video games, video poker, pulltabs, punchboards, chess sets? Televisions? Radios?
• Have you examined the local gambling laws?
• Have you examined insurance requirements for having live bands? Have you found out how much it will cost to provide all necessary hardware to bands aside from infrastructure? Have you investigated how much speakers and (professional) wiring will cost? As you are only operating with 6Ksqft how big will your stage be? How will you provide security for your live performers?
• You have stated you will not be serving alcohol. You also stated you will allow customers to bring their own alcohol into your establishment. Have you checked on the insurance and legality of such a thing. Additionally, have you computed the costs of drunken vandalism, drunken brawls, vomit, feces, sex, toward your operating costs? (Always assume the costumer will show up totally smashed, get the cheapest thing, sit there for 4 hours, screw their girlfriend in the bathroom, vomit on the floor, and shoot feces all over the wall before leaving behind their underwear, six used needles, 12 broken bottles, and a dead raccoon)
  
• Are you of age to sell the services you are intending on providing?
• Have you contacted/examined the ATF requirements for your business. (Do NOT piss off the ATF. I've worked with them before)
  
• Have you found out how much a business license, tax license, tobacco license, and other licenses will cost you? WIll the costs be one time, annually, or monthly?
• What are the noise ordinances in the area like?
• You should always assume that twice the maximum number of customers you can serve will loiter outside. What legal requirements do you have in that case?
• What is the police response time in the area?
• Are you prepared for protests regarding tobacco use? Tobacco use is becoming more and more of an issue on a lot of campuses, to the point where there are campuses that forbid smoking and some frats/sororities that insist their pledges sign a no-tobacco pledge. Are you prepared for this?
• Are you familiar with your states labor laws regarding breaks, pay, and minimum/maximum hours per worker depending on status?
• How much will the PoS machines for credit/debit cards and bitcoins cost you? The install fee, the equipment fees, the dedicated phone line/internet connection, software purchase/rental, merchant account agreements, and everything else involved costs money. Have you investigated the costs?
• How much will your cash register cost? Will you be going for something more "hardware" such as an antique or a replica, or will you go full modern, or will you get an "antique" case with all modern internals?
• How much time will you be allotting to train your workers? Will they receive full pay or not?
• How many workers will you have? For something like a lounge or bar you might be best for 1 manager/bartender, 2 waitresses, 1 janitorial (after closing). How long will their shifts be? Will you have overlapping shifts? Will you have the workers to cover if one or more come up sick? Will you be hiring college students, if so do you fully understand their commitments?
• Have you determined a shipper for your tobacco? Have you investigated wholesale companies and shipping companies for your non-tobacco consumables?
• Do you know your local laws on food handling? How much are the permits? Will you be paying for them, or are you going to try the scummy tactic of making your new hire pay for the test and not refunding them?
• Have you spent time scouting the successful hooka bars? Have you investigated what made them successful? Have you asked about their experiences in opening up the bar?
• Do you have interlocked services that can mutually support one another in case one aspect of your business struggles?
• Have you examined the population/services/income index?

This is the MINIMUM any realistic investor would want to know or see.

I don't think that being 18 has too much to do with your problems. After all, when I was 18 I was in charge of millions, maybe even billions of dollars of equipment and extremely dangerous equipment, as well as a property over 2 square miles that had fueling areas, helicopter pads, shipping and receiving areas, and high tech areas.

What IS a valid question, is:

What education do you have that enables you to run the business?

A high school project does not qualify you to run a small business. It introduces you to some concepts, but largely skips many things.

• Have you ever worked retail or any other job where you interacted with the public?
• Have you ever been in a management position or been trained for one?
• Have you ever received any type of training at management and operation of a business? Have you ever received training for to even be a shift leader at Wal-Mart?
• Have you taken any small business classes? This includes college or the Small Business Association, but excludes high school or before.
• Have you investigated the possibility of mentoring or apprenticing to a local business owner?
• What experience do you have running any type of business? Even a successful internet business. If so, for how long and what type of business was it?

You talk about a 40 line spreadsheet?

When I opened my business I could answer ALL of the above, my estimations on a 150+ page Excel spreadsheet were over 2,000 lines (indexed, cross referenced, and sourced), I had powerpoint demonstrations, a 75 page business plan, advice and even mentoring by other business owners, I'd investigated multiple loans, I had 13 different properties to choose from, complete with separate plans for each locations. I had months of research, planning, training, classes, and writing under my belt, as well as 20% of the loan, 6 different properties ranging from undeveloped 80 acres of woodland to 6 duplexes with a swimming pool for collateral, and even then I wasn't sure I was ready for go time.

This is the MINIMUM amount of work you should have already done. You should expect to do much much more.

You state that none of us have any right to receive answers to these questions. You keep waving around a spreadsheet you've done up with all of 40 lines.

As possible investors, be it BTC or USD or Dinar, we would be negligent with our own or our clients money to not ask those questions as well as to expect to receive answers.

You are seeking investors, but you are unwilling to make any disclosures on any information or planning?

You're going to be in for a RUDE shock if/when you go to a bank.

Finally: STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS! INVESTORS/LENDORS DON'T CARE! WE CARE ABOUT COLD HARD FACTS!

All your ignorant statements about disease and drugs are doing is showing me that you are probably incapable of managing a lemonade stand, since you rely on magical thinking and wish fulfillment as well as have a "Just World/Reality" viewpoint supported by magic.

None of which is something I would want in someone I was going to invest money in.

Come on Ant, you're ruining the thread. Besides, your claim of being in charge of hundreds of billions in equipment is slightly suspect unless you were the chair of the Joint Chiefs at 18.

That was a mistype. I mean millions. That's why I went back and fixed it. That's figured up the fullcosts today, what it would cost for all of those vehicles today, the value of the site itself, not to mention everything stored there. It wasn't mine, but I was trusted to be in charge of the physical location without cocking it up and accidentally blowing it off the map.

I also got months worth the training in how to handle that place, as well as several months of mentoring (OJT). I didn't just show up saying "HERE I AM! GIMME!", I had to be training, pass checks, take tests, and everything else before I was given a place like that during one of the most wasteful times in history.

but, but. . . BITCOIN!

QFT

You forgot to add the Book of Mormon (the LDS scripture)...lol..

As I said, there are many more.  The cosmology of Mormon beliefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cosmology) is of particular interest to me, though I do not follow that faith.

You know what I, and most people, value more than education?  Intelligence.  Something I have plenty of.

Let me try again.