2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge

[bitcoinbear]

Why not put it up on the GLBSE to get more donators investors?

[dank]

None.  I don't want to use glbse since there's a minimum amount I need to get started.  It'd be much easier to work with a loan.

[TheBible]

If you believe you're limited to earths physical boundaries, then you will be limited by them.  If you believe you're not, you won't be.

Your resistance to disease can be easily proven without resorting to cancer.  For example, you and a control group could be exposed to a cold virus or other minor disease and we could see if you showed resistance.  This ability is entirely scientifically testable.

Do you have any other spiritual powers you could demonstrate for us?  Could you demonstrate your transcendence of Earth's physical boundaries by teleporting yourself to the moon, taking a picture, and returning to Earth with the photo as proof?

Not yet, maybe one day.  You have heard of supernatural occurrences though, right?

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.  Show proof of just one supernatural occurrence ever having happened.  And I mean real proof, not "a bunch of people said it happened".

Sorry buddy, reality just doesn't work the way you want it to.  I'm sure you'll argue though, so I'll just ask, by what mechanism does your perception of reality work?  If our minds really shape it, how?  And what happens if two people will opposite events?  Do they cancel out or does the universe split to account for both?  What is the process by which it works?  If you're so sure of it, surely you're aware of the mechanics by which it works.  If not, you're just pulling it all out of your ass, and you can't expect reality to mold itself around you.

If it does work, though, why aren't you a huge rock star yet?  And why do you need a loan?  Why not just will the bitcoins to you?

We live in a world that is definable by our observations and and experimentation.  Reality is not as malleable as you claim it is.  This should be evident in the fact that the thread right under this one got a 10000btc loan while you're still uploading shitty guitar riffs while basing your bank on the hope that you'll make it big in rock and roll.

Sorry to come down so hard on you, but no one gets anywhere with this Magical Thinking bullshit.  Live in reality, dank.

[dank]

If you believe you're limited to earths physical boundaries, then you will be limited by them.  If you believe you're not, you won't be.

Your resistance to disease can be easily proven without resorting to cancer.  For example, you and a control group could be exposed to a cold virus or other minor disease and we could see if you showed resistance.  This ability is entirely scientifically testable.

Do you have any other spiritual powers you could demonstrate for us?  Could you demonstrate your transcendence of Earth's physical boundaries by teleporting yourself to the moon, taking a picture, and returning to Earth with the photo as proof?

Not yet, maybe one day.  You have heard of supernatural occurrences though, right?

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.  Show proof of just one supernatural occurrence ever having happened.  And I mean real proof, not "a bunch of people said it happened".

Sorry buddy, reality just doesn't work the way you want it to.  I'm sure you'll argue though, so I'll just ask, by what mechanism does your perception of reality work?  If our minds really shape it, how?  What is the process by which it works?  If you're so sure of it, surely you're aware of the mechanics by which it works.  If not, you're just pulling it all out of your ass, and you can't expect reality to mold itself around you.

If it does work, though, why aren't you a huge rock star yet?  And why do you need a loan?  Why not just will the bitcoins to you?

That's the problem, how can you have proof (evidence, measurements) of something that you can't measure?  Science is only useful to learn about our reality.  Sure, our reality doesn't work that way, but how do you know there isn't more to it?  Everything is energy, waves, we perceive things to be the way they are at a certain frequency.  Can you say, for sure, your dreams are any less real than 'reality'?  Have you ever experienced a dream with something from real life intruding it?  Like music, for example.

I didn't say life would mold itself around me, it will mold itself around all of us and we all play a role in that.

Life is but a dream.

It will come with time.  I've played guitar for like a month, time, my friend.

Anyways, related to the hookah biz, 10% of college students smoked hookah in the last 30 days, in 2011.  50,000 / 10 = 5000 people/30 days = 166/day.  70 more than my estimates, sounds like good business to me.
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/02/07/ntr.nts003.short

[Rarity]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.

That's taking it a bit far, but Dank clearly is not taking the right steps to allow him the clarity to achieve such enlightenment.  Nobody who poisons their body with drugs will be in a clear enough state.

As I said before, cleansing your soul requires a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline that he simply does not display.  If you want to know more Dank send me a PM and I can give you some information about a spiritual group that can help you.  Your beliefs are not as far off from the truth as TheBible would have you believe.

Nice intro in that study:

Tobacco use is the leading cause of morbidity and mortality in the United States.

I guess the sick advantage of setting up in a college town is that before your customers die on you they move away and new suckers show up for you to kill.

[dank]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.

That's taking it a bit far, but Dank clearly is not taking the right steps to allow him the clarity to achieve such enlightenment.  Nobody who poisons their body with drugs will be in a clear enough state.

As I said before, cleansing your soul requires a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline that he simply does not display.  If you want to know more Dank send me a PM and I can give you some information about a spiritual group that can help you.  Your beliefs are not as far off from the truth as TheBible would have you believe.

Don't you think that's a bit of a close minded view, considering our brain is made of drugs, we naturally make hallucinogens and psychedelics in our brain.

[jwzguy]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.  Show proof of just one supernatural occurrence ever having happened.  And I mean real proof, not "a bunch of people said it happened".

Sorry buddy, reality just doesn't work the way you want it to.  I'm sure you'll argue though, so I'll just ask, by what mechanism does your perception of reality work?  If our minds really shape it, how?  And what happens if two people will opposite events?  Do they cancel out or does the universe split to account for both?  What is the process by which it works?  If you're so sure of it, surely you're aware of the mechanics by which it works.  If not, you're just pulling it all out of your ass, and you can't expect reality to mold itself around you.

If it does work, though, why aren't you a huge rock star yet?  And why do you need a loan?  Why not just will the bitcoins to you?

We live in a world that is definable by our observations and and experimentation.  Reality is not as malleable as you claim it is.  This should be evident in the fact that the thread right under this one got a 10000btc loan while you're still uploading shitty guitar riffs while basing your bank on the hope that you'll make it big in rock and roll.

Sorry to come down so hard on you, but no one gets anywhere with this Magical Thinking bullshit.  Live in reality, dank.

Holy crap. A lesson in objectivism from The Bible. Where am I? What's going on??

[dank]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.  Show proof of just one supernatural occurrence ever having happened.  And I mean real proof, not "a bunch of people said it happened".

Sorry buddy, reality just doesn't work the way you want it to.  I'm sure you'll argue though, so I'll just ask, by what mechanism does your perception of reality work?  If our minds really shape it, how?  And what happens if two people will opposite events?  Do they cancel out or does the universe split to account for both?  What is the process by which it works?  If you're so sure of it, surely you're aware of the mechanics by which it works.  If not, you're just pulling it all out of your ass, and you can't expect reality to mold itself around you.

If it does work, though, why aren't you a huge rock star yet?  And why do you need a loan?  Why not just will the bitcoins to you?

We live in a world that is definable by our observations and and experimentation.  Reality is not as malleable as you claim it is.  This should be evident in the fact that the thread right under this one got a 10000btc loan while you're still uploading shitty guitar riffs while basing your bank on the hope that you'll make it big in rock and roll.

Sorry to come down so hard on you, but no one gets anywhere with this Magical Thinking bullshit.  Live in reality, dank.

Holy crap. A lesson in objectivism from The Bible. Where am I? What's going on??

Never read the bible.

[Rarity]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.

That's taking it a bit far, but Dank clearly is not taking the right steps to allow him the clarity to achieve such enlightenment.  Nobody who poisons their body with drugs will be in a clear enough state.

As I said before, cleansing your soul requires a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline that he simply does not display.  If you want to know more Dank send me a PM and I can give you some information about a spiritual group that can help you.  Your beliefs are not as far off from the truth as TheBible would have you believe.

Don't you think that's a bit of a close minded view, considering our brain is made of drugs, we naturally make hallucinogens and psychedelics in our brain.

The physical damage of introducing chemicals to your body that don't belong there is not the only issue.  There is also the enslavement of the psyche to the drug and the false pleasure it produces and the damage the drug does to the spirit.  Spiritual clarity is essential to spiritual growth.  

[jwzguy]

Never read the bible.

Are you saying you have never read the Bible or that you suggest everyone else avoid reading it?

[dank]

Never read the bible.

Are you saying you have never read the Bible or that you suggest everyone else avoid reading it?

The former.

[dank]

In fantasy, yes.  In reality, no one in all of human history has ever been proven to have them.

That's taking it a bit far, but Dank clearly is not taking the right steps to allow him the clarity to achieve such enlightenment.  Nobody who poisons their body with drugs will be in a clear enough state.

As I said before, cleansing your soul requires a great degree of purification, specialized spiritual knowledge, training, and discipline that he simply does not display.  If you want to know more Dank send me a PM and I can give you some information about a spiritual group that can help you.  Your beliefs are not as far off from the truth as TheBible would have you believe.

Don't you think that's a bit of a close minded view, considering our brain is made of drugs, we naturally make hallucinogens and psychedelics in our brain.

The physical damage of introducing chemicals to your body that don't belong there is not the only issue.  There is also the enslavement of the psyche to the drug and the false pleasure it produces and the damage the drug does to the spirit.  Spiritual clarity is essential to spiritual growth.  

So it's okay to be jacked up on natural drugs within your body, but natural drugs that are found outside of our body are bad?

Do you know this by experience?

[heatstroke]

How much of your own money have you invested into your pie in the sky ventures?  It's one thing to say, "hey guys, I've already saved up $75k of my own money to start this hookah lounge, I just need about $25k more to be in a stable enough position to sustain this venture."

It's something else entirely to say, "Oh hey bros, I've got this half-baked idea to start a hookah lounge, here's a bunch of numbers I made up last saturday, please loan me $100k; I'll pay you back when the hookah lounge goes gangbusters or my rockstar career takes off, whichever comes first.  I'm going on a vision quest and using my mind-soul connection to cure leukemia, later bros"

Aside from being utterly ignorant of basic tenets of science and financial planning, you have zero skin in the game. Yet, you expect people to write you a blank check.  So you're somehow a dumber version of Atlas.  you at least own a hookah, that probably counts as more effort than he would have put in by now.

[jwzguy]

Never read the bible.

Are you saying you have never read the Bible or that you suggest everyone else avoid reading it?

The former.

It's quite a hilarious read.
As Penn Jillette says, "Read the bible: we need more atheists!"

[Rarity]

Anyone looking to grow spiritually should familarize themselves with all of the great religious works of mankind, from the Torah to the Bible to Dianetics to the Koran to the Vedas to the Adi Granth and many other works.  You cannot find true wisdom without looking at the world from every perspective.

So it's okay to be jacked up on natural drugs within your body, but natural drugs that are found outside of our body are bad?

Do you know this by experience?

Your body does what it does because of a successful evolutionary process that has produced a complex machine that we still barely comprehend.  Even treatment under medical supervision is a dangerous process that aims to balance harmful side effects with necessary treatments.  There is no such benefit to recreational drug use, it causes diseases and weakens the body for no reason but fleeting and false pleasure.  Short circuiting the reward pathways of the brain leaves you as a damaged individual unable to perceive physical and spiritual reality as you are meant to.  You have chosen a dull and temporary pleasure over the sublime understanding of true clarity and enlightenment. 

[dank]

How much of your own money have you invested into your pie in the sky ventures?  It's one thing to say, "hey guys, I've already saved up $75k of my own money to start this hookah lounge, I just need about $25k more to be in a stable enough position to sustain this venture."

It's something else entirely to say, "Oh hey bros, I've got this half-baked idea to start a hookah lounge, here's a bunch of numbers I made up last saturday, please loan me $100k; I'll pay you back when the hookah lounge goes gangbusters or my rockstar career takes off, whichever comes first.  I'm going on a vision quest and using my mind-soul connection to cure leukemia, later bros"

Aside from being utterly ignorant of basic tenets of science and financial planning, you have zero skin in the game. Yet, you expect people to write you a blank check.  So you're somehow a dumber version of Atlas.  you at least own a hookah, that probably counts as more effort than he would have put in by now.

I'm 18, I've started from nothing, I have some money now, I'm trying to get somewhere, I don't have a silver spoon feeding me.

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post since it was fueled by several inaccurate condescending remarks and insults.  Somehow I'm the dumb one, yet I don't get mad at people on the internet.

Anyone looking to grow spiritually should familarize themselves with all of the great religious works of mankind, from the Torah to the Bible to Dianetics to the Koran to the Vedas to the Adi Granth and many other works.  You cannot find true wisdom without looking at the world from every perspective.

So it's okay to be jacked up on natural drugs within your body, but natural drugs that are found outside of our body are bad?

Do you know this by experience?

Your body does what it does because of a successful evolutionary process that has produced a complex machine that we still barely comprehend.  Even treatment under medical supervision is a dangerous process that aims to balance harmful side effects with necessary treatments.  There is no such benefit to recreational drug use, it causes diseases and weakens the body for no reason but fleeting and false pleasure.  Short circuiting the reward pathways of the brain leaves you as a damaged individual unable to perceive physical and spiritual reality as you are meant to.  You have chosen a dull and temporary pleasure over the sublime understanding of true clarity and enlightenment. 

You find true wisdom within yourself, not perverted religious doctrines.  You know how I learned everything I have?  I thought.  I didn't seek answers from others, I thought for myself.  Tell me Rarity, how do you know anything if you've not experienced/seen it for yourself?  You don't, because you cannot know anything that you have not experienced or felt.

[Rarity]

I'm 18, I've started from nothing, I have some money now, I'm trying to get somewhere, I don't have a silver spoon feeding me.

Are you currently employed?  If not, how are you currently paying your rent and bills?  

You find true wisdom within yourself, not perverted religious doctrines.  You know how I learned everything I have?  I thought.  I didn't seek answers from others, I thought for myself.  Tell me Rarity, how do you know anything if you've not experienced/seen it for yourself?  You don't, because you cannot know anything that you have not experienced or felt.

I have had true spiritual experiences and operate on a level of clarity far beyond what you can currently comprehend in your depraved state of confusion and drug abuse.  My spiritual group has helped me achieve my successful business career with all the wealth that brings and helped me to develop stronger bonds with my family and friends and communities even as I have moved an ocean away.  

A spiritual understanding focused solely on the self and your own thoughts is one of fear of new and challenging experiences.  An individual who hides from pain with the false comfort of recreational drugs is a coward hiding from reality.  The better path is always focused on community and pursuit of truth and clarity.  

[repentance]

dank, if you're going to let every thread get derailed by Rarity you're going to have a hard time getting investors for any of your projects.  If you can't stay focused in a thread about something which is of considerable importance to you, no-one's going to trust you to stay focused for the 60 hours+, week in/week out commitment which actually opening and operating your proposed venture will demand.

[BorderBits]

Where's that link that you said you would send of your spreadsheet? 

[Monster-Ant]

All right. Let me get this straight...

• You intend on getting a 6,000 sqft area, and have only set aside 6K for 6 months rent. You are assuming that in a college town you will be able to rent a 6Ksqft shot within walking distance of at least one major college (preferably equidistant from all 5) for only 1K a month + deposits.
• You also claim that there is very little needed for renovations, because you will only be putting up decorations? Have you ever SEEN what an empty shop looks like before the work starts? Usually it's just a shell with possibly some load bearing beams, meaning you will have to install the bars, the seats, the cubbies, the stock room, everything.
• You claim that you won't have to worry about janitorial services because you are only running a hooka bar. Speaking as someone who has run a business before that had nothing to do with alcohol, tobacco or anything related, I *still* found vomit and feces splattered around the latrines. When dealing with customers ALWAYS assume the worst.
  
• You claim that you will pull in thousands of USD a week/month/day based on... umm.... magical thinking? Have you done the research on what the absolute slowest you can smoke a hooka is, and multiplied that time by 3? Because customers will pay the bare minimum for the most. Always assume the worst with customers. Your best bet to figure up income prior to getting through the first three months is max capacity/10 for the ENTIRE DAY.
• Have you included FICA, Unemployment, L&I, and everything else your workers will be needing? How much will you pay managers as opposed to servers?
• Have you looked into the prices of the tobacco that goes into the hookas? Did you remember that you will be ordering up to 30% more than you will use due to slippage?
• Have you determined how much it will cost for bouncers? Or do you plan on making supervisors/waitstaff do bouncing too?
• Will you have security cameras in place, and have you priced them?
• Have you computed how much alarm/security systems/service will cost you per month?
• Have you determined how much a safe will cost? How do you plan on securing the day's profits?
• Will you be offering punchboards and other gambling? Is it legal?
• What is your estimation of how many students may use your services and how did you arrive at it? Are you aware of the fact that a large percentage of students are on financial aid?
• How will you advertise and what is your estimation of cost?
• Have you computed how much estimated damage your equipment will take through customers and entropy? If so, how did you arrive at the figures?
• You claim that the other place has "temporarily shut down" their hooka service. Why? What kind of intake did they have? How much slippage did they suffer?
• What is the estimated cost for utilities per month?
• You realize that your 6,000 square feet is actually only 100ft x 60 feet, assuming rectangular area. What has been set aside for bathrooms (those are included in square feet), what is lost to internal walls, what is set aside for storage, what amount of the area will booths, bars, equipment, and service areas take up?
• Have you drawn (pro drafting, not on a fucking napkin) a layout of your proposed business based on available properties?
• Have you investigated maximum occupancy based on the available properties?
• You mentioned having different "theme rooms", how much will the decorations for each theme cost, how easily accessible will they be?
• Regarding the theme rooms, will you have closable doors, open door access, beaded curtains? Will you have soundproofing to ensure that each room's mood is not disturbed? If the room is enclosed how will you ensure that your customers aren't robbing each other, fucking, or shooting heroin into their balls? Always assume the costumer is a complete cretin
  
• How much will insurance cost on the building, what about liability insurance, and fire/flood/hurricane/smurf attack insurance?
• Will you have enough money to run the business for FIVE YEARS at a complete loss with zero income? Estimations show that for the first 5 years a business will always run in the red, and it is safer to have money set aside to keep the business going for 5 years even if you never have a single customer.
  
• Seeing as it is a college area, will you have parking? Will you have facilities for bicyclists?
• What other entertainment besides hookas will you have (do not list floor shows for this)? WIll you have video games, video poker, pulltabs, punchboards, chess sets? Televisions? Radios?
• Have you examined the local gambling laws?
• Have you examined insurance requirements for having live bands? Have you found out how much it will cost to provide all necessary hardware to bands aside from infrastructure? Have you investigated how much speakers and (professional) wiring will cost? As you are only operating with 6Ksqft how big will your stage be? How will you provide security for your live performers?
• You have stated you will not be serving alcohol. You also stated you will allow customers to bring their own alcohol into your establishment. Have you checked on the insurance and legality of such a thing. Additionally, have you computed the costs of drunken vandalism, drunken brawls, vomit, feces, sex, toward your operating costs? (Always assume the costumer will show up totally smashed, get the cheapest thing, sit there for 4 hours, screw their girlfriend in the bathroom, vomit on the floor, and shoot feces all over the wall before leaving behind their underwear, six used needles, 12 broken bottles, and a dead raccoon)
  
• Are you of age to sell the services you are intending on providing?
• Have you contacted/examined the ATF requirements for your business. (Do NOT piss off the ATF. I've worked with them before)
  
• Have you found out how much a business license, tax license, tobacco license, and other licenses will cost you? WIll the costs be one time, annually, or monthly?
• What are the noise ordinances in the area like?
• You should always assume that twice the maximum number of customers you can serve will loiter outside. What legal requirements do you have in that case?
• What is the police response time in the area?
• Are you prepared for protests regarding tobacco use? Tobacco use is becoming more and more of an issue on a lot of campuses, to the point where there are campuses that forbid smoking and some frats/sororities that insist their pledges sign a no-tobacco pledge. Are you prepared for this?
• Are you familiar with your states labor laws regarding breaks, pay, and minimum/maximum hours per worker depending on status?
• How much will the PoS machines for credit/debit cards and bitcoins cost you? The install fee, the equipment fees, the dedicated phone line/internet connection, software purchase/rental, merchant account agreements, and everything else involved costs money. Have you investigated the costs?
• How much will your cash register cost? Will you be going for something more "hardware" such as an antique or a replica, or will you go full modern, or will you get an "antique" case with all modern internals?
• How much time will you be allotting to train your workers? Will they receive full pay or not?
• How many workers will you have? For something like a lounge or bar you might be best for 1 manager/bartender, 2 waitresses, 1 janitorial (after closing). How long will their shifts be? Will you have overlapping shifts? Will you have the workers to cover if one or more come up sick? Will you be hiring college students, if so do you fully understand their commitments?
• Have you determined a shipper for your tobacco? Have you investigated wholesale companies and shipping companies for your non-tobacco consumables?
• Do you know your local laws on food handling? How much are the permits? Will you be paying for them, or are you going to try the scummy tactic of making your new hire pay for the test and not refunding them?
• Have you spent time scouting the successful hooka bars? Have you investigated what made them successful? Have you asked about their experiences in opening up the bar?
• Do you have interlocked services that can mutually support one another in case one aspect of your business struggles?
• Have you examined the population/services/income index?

This is the MINIMUM any realistic investor would want to know or see.

I don't think that being 18 has too much to do with your problems. After all, when I was 18 I was in charge of millions, maybe even billions of dollars of equipment and extremely dangerous equipment, as well as a property over 2 square miles that had fueling areas, helicopter pads, shipping and receiving areas, and high tech areas.

What IS a valid question, is:

What education do you have that enables you to run the business?

A high school project does not qualify you to run a small business. It introduces you to some concepts, but largely skips many things.

• Have you ever worked retail or any other job where you interacted with the public?
• Have you ever been in a management position or been trained for one?
• Have you ever received any type of training at management and operation of a business? Have you ever received training for to even be a shift leader at Wal-Mart?
• Have you taken any small business classes? This includes college or the Small Business Association, but excludes high school or before.
• Have you investigated the possibility of mentoring or apprenticing to a local business owner?
• What experience do you have running any type of business? Even a successful internet business. If so, for how long and what type of business was it?

You talk about a 40 line spreadsheet?

When I opened my business I could answer ALL of the above, my estimations on a 150+ page Excel spreadsheet were over 2,000 lines (indexed, cross referenced, and sourced), I had powerpoint demonstrations, a 75 page business plan, advice and even mentoring by other business owners, I'd investigated multiple loans, I had 13 different properties to choose from, complete with separate plans for each locations. I had months of research, planning, training, classes, and writing under my belt, as well as 20% of the loan, 6 different properties ranging from undeveloped 80 acres of woodland to 6 duplexes with a swimming pool for collateral, and even then I wasn't sure I was ready for go time.

This is the MINIMUM amount of work you should have already done. You should expect to do much much more.

You state that none of us have any right to receive answers to these questions. You keep waving around a spreadsheet you've done up with all of 40 lines.

As possible investors, be it BTC or USD or Dinar, we would be negligent with our own or our clients money to not ask those questions as well as to expect to receive answers.

You are seeking investors, but you are unwilling to make any disclosures on any information or planning?

You're going to be in for a RUDE shock if/when you go to a bank.

Finally: STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS! INVESTORS/LENDORS DON'T CARE! WE CARE ABOUT COLD HARD FACTS!

All your ignorant statements about disease and drugs are doing is showing me that you are probably incapable of managing a lemonade stand, since you rely on magical thinking and wish fulfillment as well as have a "Just World/Reality" viewpoint supported by magic.

None of which is something I would want in someone I was going to invest money in.