Bitcoin Forum

In hindsight, I no longer see this bet as being funny and I think it was in horrible taste. The community members who were my friends who are standing up against this are right in doing so I and I have no place in the bitcoin community as I clearly don't take it as seriously as everyone else. I am happy to have learned so much from Bitcoin and I'm glad to have shared in many experiences as well, but I cannot discount the claims that I have some issues with manicism as there is no other explanation for my often irrational behavior. I'll be seriously looking at my life and exiting from the community with my sincerest apologies.

Mihai Alisie will be speaking for the Bitcoin Magazine at the London conference. I am in the process of exiting the company completely equity and all in addition to already having resigned as a director and Editor in Chief, as it seems the right thing to do for the future of the magazine.

Ellet's IP is being handed over to a more capable party and I will be exiting any involvement with it.

DCAO is being dismembered and the existing heads will start another organization a bit more seriously toned.

I will not be involved in any businesses in this community any longer. It is clear my immaturity is hurting the community more than I am helping it, and the position I have been in has only resulted in hurting myself and those around me. I'm glad to see that many people did get my joke, but I ask that they not defend me as even I see now that it was crossing all sorts of lines that should never have been crossed and I have absolutely no excuse for it.

I'm sorry I let so many people down that I never even realized actually cared and I hope I can somehow serve as an example of what not to do so that all of this was not a complete waste.

I will now leave how I came.

:(

Matthew,

I was one of your earliest supporters. It has been fun working with you and bouncing ideas off of you. However, the current events have truly been unforgivable.

I think that you did really harm some people with your actions. The internal strife that your bet created is terrible. The relationships that suffered because of your actions are worth much more than whatever message you tried to make. I think that your decision to leave is a token of grace, no more. I don't know if I want you to stay or if it's truly time for you to go. Part of me thinks that you need to face the community and give back all that you took away by building up the Bitcoin infrastructure that is sorely needed. But the other part of me wonders if you're capable for the task, and if you can ever win back this community.

In any case, here's to the bumpy ride that was, and still is, Bitcoin. We had some good growth and you did do a lot for the community. Whether the sum of your actions is positive or negative, I do not know. Whatever you do, I wish you luck on your future endeavors,

-Jon

(To those harmed by Matthew's debt, this is only meant to be a farewell. I don't want to take a position on either side, thank you.)

I always watched what you did without saying much about. I'm not one for the Drama, which you often loved getting involved in.
You had the chance to do a lot with your position and by your own admission your immaturity got the better of you.

Apologies are a bit late coming, but I hope this has made you learn the hard way that it's not the best way to act.
People don't forget when you do what you did on this scale, just because you said sorry.

This is something you going to have to live with, that you can't just sweep under the rug at a later date.

What id will you be using for your new account?

Matthew,

This reads to me as a sincere post. I wish you well, while continuing to disapprove of the damage that's been done, and with respect suggest that you consider seeking some professional help if your quality of life is adversely affected by the kind of behavior we have seen from you recently.

- Coinoisseur

You'll operate under a new account and remain secretly involved in your businesses.

if you feel so sorry take the btc you have and divide them proportionally.

for me this would be enough

btw: i would have paid (and i expect most others also): or would you have told us that it was just a joke in case that pirate would have paid?

If you had no intent to scam (and I truly hope that was the case) in the first place then thats really a noble way out.
You destroyed all your credibility.

The one that Amir, Donald, Patrick should have choosen way earlier.

I don't think Matthew is sorry for anything other than losing the bet.
Below is a not so private skype conversation he initiated with me earlier today.

[9/10/12 3:47:49 PM] Matthew N. Wright: Just wanted to say that I'm sorry for any negative backlash my prank might have caused. I had never intended to take that bet seriously and was laughing for 3 weeks straight for which I honestly thought would be an easy "fuck you", but it turned out I was shortsighted and hurt a bunch of people. That really wasn't my intention and I feel awful. I took the necessary steps for the businesses I'm involved in and have decided to take a back seat to everything from now on.

[9/10/12 3:48:51 PM] Roger Ver: I saw your posts and listed to you on DonkDown Radio.   I don't believe you.

[9/10/12 3:51:15 PM] Matthew N. Wright: Don't believe the posts?
[9/10/12 3:51:37 PM] Matthew N. Wright: Or don't believe that I'm sorry for the backlash of this troll?

[9/10/12 3:51:52 PM] Roger Ver: I don't believe that you intended for it to be a prank from day one.
[9/10/12 3:52:07 PM] Roger Ver: I'm sure you are sorry that you lost the bet.

[9/10/12 3:53:31 PM] Matthew N. Wright: I had discussed the prank with johnthedong, Vicente, and several others beforehand. It was all a show. I heard the arguments as to why it "must have been a scam", but regardless of how it looks, I was caught up in the entertainment.
[9/10/12 3:54:09 PM] Matthew N. Wright: I'm not sorry for trolling the community (it really needed it and I believe I have helped push through some new changes), I'm just sorry so many people who I thought would laugh at it ended up just getting hurt by it. That wasn't intentional.

[9/10/12 3:56:20 PM] Roger Ver: I think your best course of action at this time would be to stop lying about it being a joke from day one.  Then post an apology on the forum telling everyone that you thought you were going to win the bet,  and that you are sorry that you never had the money to make good on your half of the bargain.

[9/10/12 3:59:16 PM] Matthew N. Wright: cbeast has suggested the same thing but I am not sure what an apology would do. Although I know I stepped over a line of sorts, there are people trying to use what I say against me legally at this moment (including Vladimir) and I am not sure what an apology to the community would result in

Perhaps the sincerity I read is entirely fake. I now emphatically think Matthew should seek some professional psychological help.

I wonder what the people he mentions as being in the know think of this.

I suppose it is too much to ask that this be the last thread on the matter

I'm sorry for you, I hope that the Bitcoin community will grow up the next years.
You have asked too much to some brains.

I'm really sorry for all of this, you seemed a cool guy.
But that's what happens when someone plays with people's money.

Live long and prosper.

LOL at the people still believing anything Matthew has to say.

Indeed the whole stunt would've actually been much less significant if he had admitted from the start that it was a scam. But no, he continues to pretend it was "just a joke". That only makes it worse.

ROFL. See ya.

Lol. Always the US' of A way! Want moral support and guidance? Go pay someone for it!

I say give the guy a break. People make mistakes, he underestimated people's stupidity, get over it.
Maybe the gamble-aholics who are baying for blood should take a look at themselves? If Matt is such a well-known prankster/troll/clown/whatever, what were you thinking engaging in a bet? Of course you were going to lose by not getting your free winnings.

I reckon MNW should stay if he wants to, the site feature of "scammer" tags is childish, and besides, if he's not here, who will educate the n00bs about the dangers of Nigerian scams?

A corrupt society always punishes those that seek to improve it.

Some things aren't Do It Yourself projects. Last I checked access to professional psychological help wasn't restricted to the "US' of A".

Hope you are not imply his most reaction action was an act seeking to improve "our" society?
Pretty sure he did it for his own entertainment and maybe even profit.
More recent logs of him talking about it prove at least the first part.
The second part is pretty much the nature of gambling, bets, hedging what ever you want to call it.

this.

We know from past experience that you are obv lying now, Matthew.

It's another joke. He'll keep trolling and scamming under different names.

Anyone who sets out to point out that the vague and interpretive nature of language, laws, agreements, rules and any other arbitrary/false authority is exactly that, arbitrary and false, is doing so in order to prove that we need to operate on a reality based society. Why invest so much time, effort, emotion and attention to frivolous things like money, games, politics, religion etc., when it ultimately hinders and cripples us rather than makes things better for everyone. We are so caught up in these myriad fantasies that we do not even notice when the very important and real systems and structures that support life are crumbling to ruin and are enduring irreparable harm.

Matt most likely feels bad because he has spent his life in a society that promotes and rewards adherence to arbitrary rules and false authority because that's all many of us have ever known. But for those that have learned that we can't rely on fantasies, meaningless words and empty promises then they have learned that it is time to pay attention to reality instead. And that is an improvement to our society that I wish was happening sooner and faster for everyone.

I for one was shocked to find a known internet troll chose not to pay nearly $1m in bets to strangers on the internet. There were no early warning signs you could have picked up on to make a risk assessment of the situation.

Real people have lost money on this because after originally losing money on a ponzi scheme they hedged against it by betting with a known troll stranger on the internet. These people are not immature like Matthew, they just know a good deal when they see one!

I know what he means though Americans are bent for it to the point were it makes the English cringe watching your TV or listening to you talk.

 :D

Well played sir.

I feel like you're redirecting your anger toward rich people, and pointing it toward Americans.  Take a deep breath.

I heard America was like a third world country in many places these days, perhaps I'm just ignorant and listen to jelous gossip.

He wasn't that known as an internet troll though, at least not to many around here. He used his former position as cofounder and CEO in some rather high-profile Bitcoin initiatives to give an impression of trustworthiness. This is why this particular scam is no joking matter.

To be fair, when the bets started the maximum wasn't mentioned and I'd assumed he'd stop at a sensible amount - say 100btc.

That's my point.
Do you think the poor Americans are bent for therapy?

This is why mods should ban ip and troll accounts.

Please for the love of god can the mods disable his account(s), file this in the bitcoin archives for posterity so everyone can try to move on.  Please.

This fiasco will blow over and cooler heads will prevail. Matt will find green pastures in the Bitcoin realm when he learns that discretion is the better part of valor. Now can we end these threads and start paying more attention to Atlas again?

Also to the matter of sincerity, I find it interesting he chose to title this thread "Response" which he seems to have been compelled to make by others, as apposed to "An Apology" which would seem more appropriate. 

Matthew,

As many disagreements as I may have had with you.

This only saddens me :(.

This all could have easily been prevented on so many levels..

All I can say is, I hope you learned something...

I can only comment from Americans I've met and what I've seen on TV, I'm sure there's two very different ends to the spectrum but It's certainly portrayed on TV like that plus American TV seems to be full of psychobabble.

This is a bit of an off topic rant so I'll keep it short but some examples: The newsroom a new HBO series (I switched off because of it), Breaking Bad, an assortment of trash day time TV such as Doctor Phil etc and on the same note isn't Oprah Winfrey basically a TV therapist and one of Americas most powerful and financially successful women?

FTFY.

Wait wait wait, how is his dumb bet possibly worse than the scammers who actually STOLE money like Bitcoinica/Intersango, Pirate, and every other fake exchange "hack"?

I seriously doubt johnthedong knew you were going to scam everyone beforehand.

Yes. Especially after hearing the radio interview one thing is clear: he's a sociopath and is mentally incapable of sincerity or remorse.

Or any of the other 2 he mentioned...
Like we use to say: "Pics or it didn't happen"

I guest there will not be a Christmas special this year.  :(

I don't know, man. Lead salts in the water supply? I'm thinking of ditching this forum. Too many retards crying:


Maybe there's some kind of biological/environmental explanation for the mass hysteria? ::)

WTF are you even talking about? Had he won he would have taken the money without a doubt. This IS STEALING because he never intended to pay had he lost.

Matthew had already posted his payment address if he won the bet, and I'm sure many would have just paid what they owed to that address if pirate did start paying back - this right here makes Matthew the biggest piece of shit on the forums. No way in hell would I believe for a second that he would turn down 10,000BTC if he had won the bet.

His parsing of his own initial bet agreement to turn it into a 'joke' doesn't make any sense. It is perfectly clear that the '20BTC bet' was a reference to the bet format, not to the 'bet' as defined before the example. There is no reason to believe otherwise and no reading of it makes any other sense. If this were a legally binding document there's no way he'd get away with not paying as a plain reading of the agreement is very clear. This was a retroactive 'joke' for sure. He may have played it off as a 'joke' to some people beforehand to cover his bases.

I don't even have any investment in this bullshit as I didn't participate. I don't feel so bad for the people who lost money with pirate as the whole idea of his 'investment' was laughably unrealistic and obviously a scam from the beginning. But an established member posting a legit bet in the 'gambling' forum (not off-topic or other place, but a forum strictly for placing bets and gambling, which Matthew now claims was NOT the case from the beginning) and reneging on his part of the deal makes this one of the shittiest things to happen around these parts since this community started.

I am very curious how you (since you didn't mention it) interpret Matthew's claim that he would accept the label of scammer should he not hold up his end of the bargain?

I am surprised that you thought it would be a joke even after Theymos and Mage made their bets. I thought it was our lesson, but somehow it became your lesson.

It looks like that the main thing that got to him was bitcoin magazine booted him and he has lost ALL credibility with the bitcoin community..

The thing that bothers me is that he calls his stunt a "joke" and still doesn't seem to see how serious it really was. The only reason he has his tail between his legs is he is embarrassed. He just doesn't see the gravity of the situation and probably will see legal action taken against him from the magazine.

He still hasn't grasped the magnitude. I can guarantee you that if he won the bet, he would have expected EVERYONE to pay up. I  know that I would have. In fact, I pm'ed him a week or two before and felt sorry for him and offered to take a years subscription of the magazine, which he replied "thank you for that, even though Bitcoin Magazine is not associated with this bet, I will be more than happy to use my employee discount and get you that subscription"- (thats pretty much word for word). So, right there our bet turned from bitcoins to a magazine subscription..

He had all intentions of making money off of us.

But, I can guarantee you he will be back. He will go away for a bit, lurking here on the forums, but trust me,  he will be back. Not under MNW, but you know he will..

I just have to say one thing Matthew..

Dont let the door hit you where the good lord split you.....


AR

Edit: Another thing this has done, be it bad or good, it took some attention and perhaps pressure off of Pirateat40. MNW only helped Pirate with his stunt. I think there are now many more posts regarding MNW than there is about Pirate (most likely due to MNW). Pirate screwed the community out of much more, but I do realize the differences.

Wait your analysis of an entire nation of 300 million people is based on TV?  Really?  This has to be the most stupid thing I have read in this thread.
What next?  You will blame Americans for their obsession robotics for the Cylon threat and the near genocide of the human race?

This.  He isn't upset about what he did or who he affected.  He is simply upset that it had personal consequences for himself.  Reading between the lines if he could do it all over again without consequence he would.

They placed their bets relatively early.  Looking back at Matt's posts I am convinced he created an honest bet to begin with.   The "technicality" he escpaed payment from (in his mind only) is so lame it can only be an afterthought.  He made an honest wager, was sure Pirate would pay and when it became clear he wouldn't rather than face the music he raised the cap racked up another 70K BTC in bets, and came up with his exist strategy.

If you look at his early posts he was selected in who he took bets from, requires some younger members to escrow their portion (why have someone escrow a bet you know you will lose).  That changed roughly 14 days ago when he raised the cap, and started accepted 1,000 BTC bets from Jr members.

I knew you were not going to be able to pay this bet, however I thought the community would just slap you on the back and say its alright son, dont worry about it - you just keep showing us animated gifs of horses heads and everything is going to be alright.


FWIW: Of all the more "popular" (for lack of a better word) people on this forum your one of the few that I actually liked.

Good luck with your future endeavors and enjoy the walk of shame; dont let it get you depressed - somethings are just not meant to be.



take care

Your Friend
cp

Yolocoin, since you have only been here under that name for about a week and  every post is you defending MNW, you are either him (MNW) or a very close associate.. Ill bet the former..

This tends to convey my feelings as well.  

Lately it seems I am seeing new sides to many different members here.  When the pressure comes down some show their worst while others come through it having learned something and are the better for it.  Overall I think things will settle down with more to the positive than the negative.  

Some lessons have been learned from your stunt after all.  And not just ones having to do with being careful how you treat people when their money is involved.  

Thank you for showing us the mature adult you are capable of being.  

Win = Win
Lose = Don't lose

Well played.

lol

That he would accept the label of scammer should he not hold up his end of the bargain, that is, that he understands that not holding up his end of the bargain would in fact make him a scammer and justifiably labeled as such by the community. It reads as reinforcing the seriousness of the bet as an enforceable agreement such that violating it would constitute scamming.

I wish it wasn't so, but I do believe that Matthew, at least in the beginning, believed that Pirate was going to pay people back and had he won, would have gleefully accepted any funds paid to him and pursued scammer tags for anyone who didn't pay him back. If he didn't believe this, he faked it *incredibly* well.

By the way, if your implication was that it's a reasonable interpretation that accepting a scammer tag was somehow full payment for the bet, then how do you explain why other people kept betting or why people raised their bet amounts or asked for escrow? It's not like Matthew could get more than one scammer tag. So it's pretty clear that nobody accepting the bet, except possibly the first person or two, had this interpretation. (And it's silly and unreasonable.)

Is this the praise and admiration of a fellow scammy fuck?  Just asking...

Relax, he'll be back in 2 weeks with a new bitcon business idea.

Apologies mere hours after goading and laughing about   a stunt like this  are not going to save you

I will still blacklist companies you are involved with and encourage others to do the same

congratulations ,you fucked your friends businesses up as well as your own career

but at least you you got to keep the coins eh ...../

alls well that ends well .

I don't see why Matthew should have to leave or exit or whatever. His reputation is now well established, rightfully labeled, and he will be treated accordingly on this forum. So if he stays, time will pass, people will calm down, forget, or forgive, and he'll just have to rebuild his rep from scratch.

I tried to warn ya how distasteful this prank was brother..


Sorry bout your luck.. 

See ya next nick...

MNW, that was good job you did getting the ball rolling on the magazine. thanks for that

Oh, also.. DUCK!

http://fishduck.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ducky3.jpg

As a lurker I feel there is a tremendous lack of clear understanding here.  

Facts:

1.  If by some stroke of random impossibility Pirateat40 HAD actually paid out MNW would have taken EVERY SINGLE BTC sent him to the bank.  He published an address to receive coin.

2.  But MNW lost the bet and is paying NOTHING.  He claimed it was all some sort of joke.  This is not how bets work.  This is not how debts are paid.  This is how someone destroys their life, the reputation of many around them and the community in which they exist.  He has done even more damage to the image of BTC on the heels of continued negative press.

3.  He comes in here with his tail tucked and his eyes misty and MOST OF YOU ARE BUYING IT.

There is ONLY one right thing to MNW to do in this situation, and an apology and resignation is not it.  Can anyone guess what the one right thing is?

He should PAY HIS DEBT.

That is the one and only reasonable action here.  He ows the coin, and he owns coin, and a new block is going on the chain right now as we gawk at this... oh and there's another... and another.  Where are the payments?

He doesn't have all that coin?  Well that's terrible and another proof of core dishonesty, but he does have SOME coin.  He should start by paying out every bit of it.

By the way, I am not on the list of people he just ripped off.  But if you are ,shedding a tear of regret as you shrug off his debt to you when he does the apology song and dance is you falling for yet another angle from this guy.

You know... it's sad, but it is just a matter of time before clowns like this screw over the sort of people who will not take an apology in place of payment.  Then BTC will have some real bad press...  

I suppose that though has not crossed MNWs mind... (of course it has... see the OP)

what was the prank that everyone is talking about here

Also, you're not helping him. Every time you post your weak defenses, others feel obligated to rebut them with much stronger arguments. On net, it makes his position worse.

He made a bunch of bets pirate's scheme wasn't an obvious fraud/ponzi and would pay out, then lost, then claimed it was a prank and not a real bet after said losing.

tl;dr forum drama, aspergers, gambling on HYIP gambling, multiple ignores, embracing of clown suit

Ouch

+1

That's true, hence the corollary:

https://i.imgur.com/kEbAN.jpg



https://i.imgur.com/GtCcC.gif

He was seeking easy money, not to improve society. Nor was he joking. Didn't look like a joke, didn't sound like a joke. Looks like a scam, was a scam. Not a joke.

Matthew, this is the only thing you have done that has sincerely angered me. While I preach against dogmatic morality, my inner integrity compels me to despise the fraud you have committed here. The thought you would've collected from your betters while never having the ability to pay them is sickening.

Nonetheless, I hope this is eventually forgotten but I did report you to the SEC when I was most emotional. As fruitless as that will be, hopefully it will build you in some way or maybe they won't bother you at all.

Godspeed.

I see that at least one thing got done in #btcst.

If you lose a bet, you pay. If you dont pay, you break your word, what ever lame excuse / appology you have:
You are a scammer, totally deserve the tag and you totally deserve all legal actions crossing your way.

My own personal opinion is that MNW's a histrionic manchild and closet pedophile, but let's not let that get in the way of the fact that no bitcoins changed hands and MNW hasn't actually stolen anything.  So yeah, let's whitewash all the actual theft and pyramid ponzi schemes and just chase tails instead.


And yet all the pirate pass-thoroughs have suckers lining up to fellate the real thieves in vain attempts that somehow they'll be first in line to receive the zero bitcoins that will eventually get paid out.

Seems like deja-vu.  I remember a few months back that MNW wrote some apology about trolling so much and he was going to stop.

i disagree ,he deserves a perma-bann and if any of the mods read this i hope they do it

what other forum would allow a scammer to continue to taunt the victims of a scam in the aftermath  ?

it seem rather pointless that people get these scammer tags and then they have a licence to troll on and spam the board

i didnt lose anything through his retarded scam but what about everyone he advised to "use it as a hedge " and win back your pirate losses etc

debts that were worth a % of face value are now worth nothing thanks to MNW  wasting 3 vital weeks  when everyone should have been focusing on pirate and the money ,instead of doing that  they were busy hedging it on matthews bet ........

it created a complete chaotic  mess in the community at the worst possible time in the wake of the BTCST scam ,and one that wont  be forgotten for a long time

There will be no rebuilding his reputation until he pays the coins he owes. There is no probability of that happening, so he is fucked for life as far as I'm concerned. And I really hope any potential business partner or employer he engages with in the future finds these forums and finds out about his scam.

I had you pegged for Atlas on the very first post of yours I happened across.  This one lend support to that supposition in my mind.

Matt's "bet" was obviously a 100% trollish prank.  Only those with a compulsive gambling problem would want to believe it was somehow (herr durp, maybe pirate is seekretly backing him???!!!1?) legitimate.   

Just as with pirate, people were warned, repeatedly and loudly, not to take him seriously.  But they didn't listen.

The bet started at a limit of 10k BTC or $110,000. That was a bit extravagant but modest enough for Bitcoins that could of been acquired months ago at a cheaper price. The bet was somewhat reasonable in the beginning. Trust in his gentleman's agreement was reasonable. It was only when he went beyond this limit that the bet came into question.

I will say that the larger betters should of insisted on escrow.

To bad MNW seemed like a stellar addition to the community for so many months and not going to lie the apology did feel real I got choked up a tad.

With that aside you are now being sent to the trash bin of Bitcoin History. There is long list of people who came before you Bruce Wagner aka Tom Williams and handful of companies deserving the same fate you'll be now listed under.

A bitcoin purgatory if I may say so. Never to show your face around here again till you provide provable evidence that you sought help and got help.  We all have our flaws you've found yours.

All trolls have their day you've found yours and may you be at peace with it.

-bbit

Are you the same guy who was accusing "team ponzi" of not understanding "investment liquidity" and spreading "pirate FUD"?




If so, I must admit that you sure are a fast learner.

In Australia there was a show called "The Chasers War on Everything". They considered nothing taboo in the pursuit of laughs. They minimised and belittled to a horrifying extent children with cancer (look it up if you're morbidly curious) as a form of humour. Suffice to say almost no-one  "got" their humour, among other instances. Their show was subsequently cancelled and almost universally derided. In the very best context your activity equates to their situation.

At worst? You've used your real identity to fraudulently and ineptly place a bet you were in full control of yet never limited. Seriously, you in your OP stated you were trying to make a point, was a bet of 1000BTC too little? You stated you would lock the thread when too many bets were placed yet kept "accepting" them? You, in full realisation of your role as an editor of Bitcoin magazine dragged Bitcoin Magazine in regardless just for the "lulz".

Then, to really undermine your situation, you reneg on the "bet" and act like a five year old after the fact. This is 4chan shit (no, no, I shouldn't be that low, this is /b!.).

Before this, you acted like a decent person, I liked you, hell, even admired you for putting yourself out there and contributing in real substantial ways to the Bitcoin community. But seriously, this either shows a complete lack of character, or a complete lack of sound judgement. Either way you completely undermined your own image in this community, and you did it of you own volition.

As I see it you have five options

1. Go back to /b. never to return, forever known as a pariah, but likely forgotten.
2. Make good on the bet and suffer the stigma of trying to reneg. (yes this is an option still)
3. Reneg and leave gracefully, knowing you will be a pariah.
4. Reneg, not leave and be a pariah.
5. Reneg, apologise but forever be a pariah.

Please choose one of these and at least stop drawing attention to yourself. I'm tired of the childishness and would prefer news of substance in this forum.

sounds like MNW must be the guy in betsafe commercial. "It was just a stupid bet"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uygVheqZm9c&feature=relmfu

Congratulations on answering your own question, and in the affirmative to boot.  I haven't seen an ad hominem strawman get tackled like that since the 1984 Superbowl!

But all that has nothing to do with the fact that Matt's "bet" was obviously a 100% trollish prank and people were saying so all along, only to be ignored by the gambling addicts.

Well, you see, you'd need to hang around longer than 2 weeks on this forum to start seeing the signs..

Good find! Bravo!

As a /b/tard, I beg to differ.
This wasn't even a remotely good troll. I'd give it a 3/10, just because it caused huge amounts of butthurt. Without the butthurt, it wouldn't even be rated.

Also, it's not /b! or /b. It's /b/

I say there be a day of Boycott on  MWN by everyone taking a moment and hitting "ignore" on his profile.  This will force him to come in as a sock poppet but it will also help us know nobody is listening to him.

My response to you, Matthew:

  Any honest and reasonable person would realize that they might need to provide proof that they would not have collected on the joke if they won.  This is especially true considering you were talking to a bunch of people that claimed Pirateat40 was a scammer.  So, either you are not honest and hence can not prove your intention was never to scam.  (In fact this proof should have been given the moment you stopped taking bets)  Or you are not reasonable and it never occurred to you that people might not take you at your word.  (Not to mention the other harm you little "joke" caused)

  I don't believe the second option.  You aren't that dumb.  Therefore, I can only conclude you did intend to collect if you had won.  You are too proud of you literal wording; I think you would have demanded payment to teach us a lesson.

  I would have payed because I am honest.  You may pay if you are honest.

  Apology rejected.

OK. So first you defended pirate and now you're defending MNW. ad hominem reasoning is only a fallacy if its irrelevant to the issue. and its only a strawman if i misrepresent your position.

I only quoted you to see if I could establish a pattern. Since you provide no reasoning that met's bet was "obviously a 100% trollish prank", there's no logic to argue with.

If I read his posts correctly (with heavy sarcasm) then I don't believe he's defending MNW or pirate.  Rather he's openly mocking the gullibility of the people who invested or bet.

You are correct Yolocoin!  It's nice to see some people are capable of replacing the batteries in their sarcasm detectors in a timely fashion.

Christ bitcoinBull, do I have to spell it out for you?  I mean, even more than it was already spelled out several times during the course of Matt's bet's drama?

Clues for the Clueless Volume XXII
1) Matt is a minor and can't legally sign a contract
2) Matt had not visible means of repayment
3) Matt is a jocular, arguably immature fellow who likes to make his points via escalation
4) NO ESCROW (yes I am screaming that)

Need I go on?

And Matthew was one of them, re. original intent of his bet. THAT'S why I have a problem with it.
Also, don't let someone off the hook for punching you in the face just because there are murderers in the Congo.

As I recall he's a legal adult by any international standard.  I'd say "manchild" is an apt description.  The rest of your list is completely true and on-point.

Why would he pay out the fractions he is able to? Would it really improve your opinion of him if he paid you 1/1000th of what you bet, assuming all his money is distributed proportionally? To me his money won't matter. Only thing that will is the rest of his actions.
Maybe I'm just biased, but this whole incident looked to me as someone doing something stupid, not evil, even if it hurt people just the same. That's why I don't see a problem with him still being around. He got a massive kick in the pants for what he did, and I guess, for some reason, I still have faith in him. Not trust (aside from trusting he'll do something stupid again), just faith.

No. It wasn't. Not at first. If it's a trollish prank, it has cost Matthew hundreds in escrowed bets. Since you obviously weren't there, please stop commenting as if you know everything. Judging by the deep brown color of your ignore, I doubt anyone is listening anyway.


WTF? ???

1) He is an adult, I think in mid to late 20's, living on his own in Korea
2) He owns and is involved in many businesses, and has worked at a few high profile, non-bitcoin related businesses. It wouldn't be surprising for him to have $100,000 worth.
3) True. Although in this case his point was "Why can't you leave pirate alone?!"  :'(
4) There was AT LEAST $400 worth of escrow, which Matt lost in the end.

This pretty much solidified for me that YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I believe you are operating on the assumption that he meant it as a joke from the beginning and knew that the chance of him winning his bet was effectively zero. Assume, for the sake of argument, that he originally expected to win the bet and collect every Bitcoin he could from those who bet against him and to pursue scammer tags for anyone who didn't make 100% payment. Under those assumptions, would you still say it's stupid, not evil?

Prior to this stunt, I trusted Matthew. You can probably find me vouching for him in public and I did the same in private. And despite my friendship and trust, I still believe that Matthew initially expected to win his bet and would have collected had he won. If you have any reason to believe that is not so, please share it. Pirate debt was selling for 35% to 50% at the time Matthew made his bet, so there were certainly many people who didn't think Pirate debt was worthless.

Isn't that more proof that he considered it quite possible that he would win and would have collected if he had?

Evil has religious connotations so I won't say what he did was 'evil', but it was certainly malicious and wrong. As many others pointed out, if Pirate had paid out and Matthew won the bet, he would have collected every last Bitcoin from the people he bet with. And if they didn't pay, they would have received scammer tags. Hence, what he did was steal from those he bet with. He is a thief, plain and simple. He shouldn't be trusted to do anything but the most menial blue collar jobs where trust isn't a factor, as far as I'm concerned.

I have a theory about this bet which I'm not sure others have stated yet. I don't think Matthew ever intended to pay out if he lost, but I think as time went on and it became more apparent that he was going to lose the bet, he kept increasing the bets more and more to make the whole thing look like a ridiculous prank. Look at all the people now saying 'But all of you KNEW he wasn't going to pay out 80,000 BTC'... The bet increases were a ploy to make the whole thing so absurd that only a 'fool' would have expected him to pay out.

To clarify, when I say evil, I meant intentionally trying to steal or cause harm. I fully believe his initial bet was real. What I meant was that I believe when things went south for him, he panicked, and tried to do something stupid to get out of it. JoelKatz, I agree with you completely. This was at the least an act of cowardice. I just can't see Matthew being so bad (evil) that we would set up a scam like this from the start. What dissipate said +1
And no, I'm anti-religious.

Ahh, I was wondering why the thread referred to 10kBTC, yet everyone was talking about 80kBTC. Whatever his "real intentions" were, this lynching just keeps getting sadder. I don't even know the guy, but I sure hope he's OK.

I call bullshit. One user admitted that he had escrowed 40 bitcoins with a third party on the bet with MNW and has received those bitcoins.

Matthew believed he would win. Just listen to his first interview with Micon: http://www.donkdown.com/media/DDRadio-2012_08_22_19_00_07.mp3

1. 40 bitcoins that were escrowed
2. Anyone attempting to hedge with Matthew's bet because they were invested with pirate.
3. Anyone who was buying pirate debt at higher prices lost.
4. Matthew's job as EIC at bitcoin magazine was lost.
5. Bitcoin Magazine will likely suffer some tarnish to their rep as they were directly involved with him.
6. ........

Need I say more?

Get your facts straight.

But trying to get out of a bet when you think you might lose?   He is a cheater.  Admitting it should be his first action. 

Paying what he can would be the next action.  Yes, I think it would help.  How about a personal written apology, then?  Hmm, nope.  Nothing in my inbox even.

He could have won the bet.  That is not to be taken lightly.  He thought he would; now, if he thought he was going to lose then it would be completely different.

"Boy, have I been taken
 Oy, I'm so forsaken
 I should have seen what came to pass
 I should have known to watch my ass!
 I feel like Othello
 Everything is lost
 Leo is Iago
 Max is double-crossed!
 I'm so dismayed.
 Did I mention I'm betrayed? "

You truly are a piece of shit.  Everyone knows you're full of shit.  This wasn't a prank this was attempted robbery.  You were betting with money you didn't have.  You made Pirate victims not sell their debt and take your bet as a hedge.  You made people, including me, buy pirate debt based on this bet.  You made people lose money.  Period. 

This does not absolve you of anything.  You are in debt to me 1000 BTC.  I expect it to be paid.  You will never restore your credibility until all your 80k BTC debt is paid.

The fact you no longer have your fancy title at bitcoin magazine means nothing to me.  You still have stake in the company.  I will never buy one because of you.  In fact I will never buy anything you or your partners do, ever.  You have fucked many people in this bet not just the bettors but also business associates, lenders who have given you money, the businesses you still have equity in, and people that stood up for you.  They stood up for a scamming piece of fucking shit and will forever be on my ignore and I'm sure many others.

I would have respected you just a little more had you said this blew up bigger than you could handle and it turned into a scam.  The fact that you try and lie even now just proves how low of a human being you are.  Thing is, I don't think you even care.  You are just a drama whore who is now also a scammer.

Get Fucked.

0/10 trolling

you bought pirate debt basing on a bet? oh LOL

Why are there so many people saying its no big deal because technically no money passed hands directly? The only reason that he got away with this mess is because 1. He was a mod. 2. head honcho of Bitcoin mag. 3. Very good reputation.

When I play poker and I make a side bet, who ever looses pays, simple as that. No  money exchanged hands when the bet was made. The bets are made because of trust that both individuals will live up to their end of the agreement. Plain and simple.

He made the bet. Thinking he was going to win. (many bets were offered to be escrowed but were turned down by the forum better, (smart ones did though,lol). He was willing to escrow bets until he got up to the 5k coin range..

The fact that pirateat40 offered to buy him out and him refusing is another sign that he thought Pirate would pay.

Who cares if no money exchanged hands! Damages occurred as I have seen many analogies regarding this.

Matthew thought he was going to get rich of this scam and then he would have been trolling this forum with "told ya so's" for months.

His intentions were not honorable. He is a liar and a thief.. No two ways about it.. You can rationalize it all you want, but MNW did cause a lot of harm, not only to him, but to every bitcoin business he is/was associated with.

Good grief..

There are plenty of legitimate grounds for criticising Matthew, but he no more made people do the things you list than pirate or the pass-through operators made people give pirate their Bitcoins.  Buying pirate debt on the basis of someone else's actions is ridiculous - you have no way of knowing whether they're just trying to inflate the price for their own benefit.  People with true inside information try to hide it from the market because sharing their inside knowledge dilutes its value.

man, my ignore list is filling up today.  keep supporting a scammer people

You're seriously arguing that if you take a loss because you trusted someone, it's your fault for trusting them? Or are you saying it was ridiculous for anyone to trust Matthew? Are you secretly trying to make him look worse?

Please forgive my noobish ignorance... but I would never give BTC to a user with the name "pirate." ???

You'd think some of these quys would be smarter then that!

Yes, but I think it speaks to our general desire as a community to be a community. To work for the common goal that BTC go mainstream is why we want to trust each other. It also raises interesting thoughts in my mind about humanity as a whole and our desire for trust, need and acceptance... but I wont go into that here. I can't speak thoughtfully enough on the matter in question to do it any sort of justice.

Free Market, where reputation is paramount!  (unless you just change your name.)

You're talking about people who think a ponzi isn't a scam if they tell you up front it's a ponzi.  Why?  Because bitcoin.

Not saying he didn't cheat, but would your opinion of him HONESTLY change if he paid you a tiny fraction of what he owed you? Would you honestly trust him any more, or change your mind about him having scammed people?




*cough* what?

If someone is honest and totally up front about how they will distribute everyone's money, clearly stating that new deposits will be used to pay the profits of older account holders, how is that being dishonest? The whole reason ponzis are scams is because people who operate them don't tell anyone they are running ponzis.
Or are your definitions only valid when applied however you want them to, because SA goons?

My impression of Matthew is one who is(was?) both naive and excessively confident in his own opinions. It's a dangerous mix.
I was quite floored by the certainty with which he (incorrectly) proclaimed that the recent leaked FBI bitcoin report was 'fake'.

Sad that we lose the sheer drive and enthusiasm he has for getting things done - but I have to agree with others that it's reasonable to view this as a debt he owes and reneged on.

It raises interesting questions about bankruptcies and Bitcoin.  Bitcoins make it so much harder to know when/if someone has paid all they can to creditors.
Still, there are old-skool methods of hiding assets amongst family/friends so I guess it just makes it a bit easier for the defaulters.
In this case though, he doesn't seem to be acknowledging the debt or even attempting to repay to the extent of his capacity.

BTCST + 'the bet' = Another depressing Bitcoin clusterfuck.

Funny, but how many of the "insured" schemes continued to pay out after the ponzi chain dried up?  For example: hashking

I'm arguing that it is ridiculous to risk your own funds - and especially funds you cannot afford to lose - based on someone else's market activity or perceived support of an investment unless that person is your financial advisor or fund manager and carries indemnity insurance.  It's speculating at best and gambling at worst, whether you choose to label it "investment" or not.  

Based on no evidence whatsoever, people assumed Matthew had some kind of inside knowledge about the likelihood of pirate paying.  Matthew should rightly be condemned for largely failing to rebut that assumption, but it doesn't change the fact that people were buying up pirate debt hoping to profit off the misfortune of others purely because they thought it was a "sure thing".  Without intending any disrespect to Matthew, investments and securities aren't his "thing" - trusting his "judgement" regarding the likelihood of pirate paying was absurd.

I.... don't know because I wasn't involved and don't care?

Matthew,

What you did was dumb. There is little point trying to teach people a lesson - you are no better teacher than a lifetime of experiences, and your lesson won't be learned. There will always be this exact type of situation everywhere you go. Everywhere. I'm sorry you hadn't realized that.

I must admit I liked the Bitcoin movement far more before your stunt. This has brought out the bad side in so many of our community...we've gone from revolutionaries to whiny brats, big dreamers to big babies, bright individualists to a herd of thoughtless beasts...how are we gonna get anywhere if all we do is rip each other off or trick the stupid in to ridiculous bets? There are better things to be done and in your absence perhaps it will be easier to get good things done...or maybe we will just keep gambling and scamming...

I'm not repentance but I'm going to address this since I like the questions.

Yes, there is some fault in making a bad decision. Solely blaming the trusted person misses out on a learning opportunity.  This doesn't absolve the person who lied or mislead of the direct blame. Fault and blame aren't a limited resource or restricted to some maximum value for the purposes of distributing among participants.

Some have been saying that before any of this and they continued to say it when the bet was posted. That doesn't make his bet a joke though. Personally, when the bet was at 10K I thought it was possible he was just flush with coins and doing some sort of quirky promotion.

Matthew looks terrible with this bet without secret help from repentance. Most of those who trusted Matthew to honor it and got burned are from the group Matthew appeared to be defending.

Fear not, folks. I would be surprised if Bitmole hasn't been building post count with a sock puppet for previous months. He's probably even been arguing with himself in threads. He gets far too much attention to leave it all behind. And the community is very open to being scammed.

I seriously think the only thing that would keep him from coming back (staying as sock puppet?) is if/when he realizes the next natural step for him is to create a new religion with him at the center. "The Wright Way Church" or some such, tithes due in bitcoin only. You all do remember from his Bitmole posts that he claims his family is from the midwest U.S. and he left them at a young age because they were super religious. He understands all religion is a scam. That's where the real money is.

Will he wash everyones feet with Dove soap ?

I had great respect for your intelligent posts and sense of humor.  But lately I was getting worried about your state of mind, seeing the frequently of your posts especially in #BTCST, (Following your posts would have been a full time job).  You suffered from an overdose,  In some ways I see myself being a bit like you, I've lost way too much time focusing on keeping track of every aspect of BTC as if it was a soon to be ending gold rush.  I think the part were we diverge is ,while you seems to be risking everything as if it was your last days on this earth, others are piling up for worldwide economic collapse / SHTF.  From that angle it is obvious your trolling with people's money has affected some to the core.  

You were a great motivators for gearing up new initiatives in the DCAO and had many qualities of a leader, unfortunately your egocentric sarcasm surfaced back.  

Hope you get yourself some much-need vacation and find peace with yourself.

I continue to have a gut sense that you sell him short (though the evidence that he thought he might win his sham bet has yet to be explored...)

With you and the infamous thread, I continue to hold the opinion that I came away with: that he always intended to pay but momentarily forgot that he had no fucking clue about how to even obtain a BTC...though in his mind he knew how to put together a datacenter full of GPU mining rigs...

I think that he probably did have every intention of being a real, valuable, upstanding citizen when he donned the Matthew N. Wright tag and tried (amusingly) to start the Bitcoin Better Business Bureau thing.  Unfortunately for him the reality of our world and neuro-physics smacked him upside the head...within days iirc...

Matthew, like Bruce, has actually done some actually valuable things for the Bitcoin ecosystem and it would be immature to completely ignore these though it does not excuse their various malfeasance.  (Atlas, OTOH, has not done a damn thing of value that I can think of.)

Will Matthew be back?  I could see it going both ways.  If I were a betting man, I...um...wouldn't bet one way or another.  As far as I know he's not banished as Matthew N. Wright on this forum so there would be no reason to use a sock puppet.  For Matthew's sake, I hope he explores some other things before the negative aspects of his condition(s) outweigh the benefits of his energy level.  I suspect that what achievements he had in the Bitcoin world were valuable to him and potentially to others.

I managed to delete over 10,000 Bitcoins in 2009. You're welcome.

Nice sig.

You also posted a suicide note on the internet.

You are MNW and what you done has done more negative effect on the community
than atlas and his  suicide note

who would care if atlas troll  was swinging from a rope really ?

Nope.  I am not MNW.  Guess again.  Matthew's in Korea.  I'm not.

If I knew his locale, I'd do him the courtesy of calling the local EMS.  That's about it.

(*edit* to be honest I thought that Atlas and MNW were having a gay lover's quarrel for the longest time, but then MNW started his "child modelling" business)

I still won't buy the magazine, because I don't believe you.

There is some grain of truth in my feeling he could start a religion. He has many of the requirements: he's delusional, charismatic, manipulative, energetic, intelligent and I believe there's some mental issue at play that I don't know the definition of. And he does have that background in religion ostensibly. I don't think he's physically harmful, or odd enough to be "sociopathic" or whatever, but he does have delusions of grandeur at a young age. But I have a soft spot for that. There's nothing really wrong with aiming high.


This must be something akin to Stockholm Syndrome but for scammers, where people see the scam come completely to light and still say, "aw, he's a good guy, he's just a little mixed up." And then they give him their money. Again. Maybe he's not a serial murderer, but it should have been apparent to anyone who read that thread and then learned about his school and other claims, that he wasn't to be trusted. I will say he worked hard to earn trust after that but isn't that exactly how a scam works? I guess people are just eager to believe others easily change for the better.

I do think this recent scam was mostly harmless. But it again reveals his nature. He either does not understand, or cares not to choose between, right and wrong. He skirts the edge of it until those edges blur and disappear.


it wasn't until the magazine that I thought he might have been headed in a not-so-scammy direction, but then it kept stalling. When folks started receiving it I was pleasantly surprised.


One thing's for sure, Bitmole's done more for bitcoin than me. I have no claim aside from buying and selling some and telling a few friends about it.

I have considered a bitcoin business but I use Drupal and the last I checked the bitcoin module was buggy. And frankly its asking a bit much to have to run some bitcoin client on the server as well. Maybe if BitPay makes an Ubercart payment module I'd reconsider.

I also have it in my email sig that I accept it for my design work, however it is something I seem to reconsider from day to day. Bitcoin is so tied to scamming I'm concerned that advertising I'm involved could have negative impact on me.


I was always pretty certain he had sock puppets but then one day it occurred to me that might just be impossible since he seems to spend nearly every waking moment posting under his own name, or working up a project.

But you'd be fine giving them to someone called "Honest-Ernest"?

You let me down Matthew. :(

He's already done that once after being labelled a scammer previously. Anyone who believes him the third time, well...

TLDR : Time for another sockie account just like Atlas dood ...

Quoting some posts to sum up the analysis others were so kind to make:




The way to confirm this as a joke would be a signed message of a trusted person. The message would confirm the timing of a signed message by Matthew N. Wright that he is not to be paid in case he should win. It seems such a message does not exist.

Ending this with fancy con talk is worse than admitting to be a scammer.

Apology seems legit, he posted this just before posting his apology thread:

Yeah his response to me a little over 12 hours before this thread was posted was:
 

I believe this one is a more accurate portrayal of how Matthew feels about the situation, not this half assed apology.

You mean a trusted person like Mathew.. or Pirate... right? Right?

Then he should've used that argument without even trying to use a lame excuse.
My 9 year old son is more mature than Matthew...

Nothing is wrong with btc community, just the damn scammers.

Scammers are integral to bitcoin community.

He obviously means a trusted THIRD PARTY.

For Matt could have written up a letter explaining the prank and how even if he won he would not under any circumstances expect the losers to pay or seek any consequences for them, dated it,  then digitally signed it.  He could then have a trusted third party (say Gavin) digitally sign it as a notary.  Even better would to then take a hash of the final double signed document and put that hash in the OP.

While it would still be a scumbag thing to do, it would make it a provable prank.   I am convinced Matt for whatever deluded reason (likely thinking emotially) thought Pirate would repay.  He bet 10K BTC with the intent to collect (and teach all those naysayers a lesson).  Over the intervening weeks it became obvious Pirate wouldn't pay and after the fact Matt removed the cap, and started accepting unescrowed bets from noobs for hundreds and even thousands of BTC in an attempt to run the bet up into insane amounts as cover that it was all a joke.  His "technicality" is so beyond weak (10 year old thinking) that for someone as creative as Matt it comes off as a weak after the fact play.  He couldn't change the terms so he had to look for something to hang his "joke" on.

Obviously that theory can never be proven (baring a confession from Matt) but had he created a digitally signed document he could have proved his intent.  One would think Matt who used provable lottery in the past would have considered making a letter to provide him cover when the "joke" exploded.  He didn't because at the time of the bet it wasn't a joke.

The worst part is he tried to take the coward liar (yes Matt you are a liar) way out.  Had he just said "Fuck you all, you aren't seeing a cent.  See the danger of betting/investing with an unknown counterparty" I would have at least had a little respect for him.   He simply didn't even have the guts to do that.   

FYPFY.

That would have required the trusted third party to know that Matthew wasn't going to pay out and collude with him in concealing that fact from all the BS&T investors who were using his bet to hedge their potential losses. I'm honestly not sure whether anyone willing to do that could be called trustworthy.

Scams usually happen only under certain social conditions.
So altho a lot of people have the potential for scamming they will only take the risk if their social bond with the other side is not strong but strong enough for the other side to trust them.
And in the bitcoin community these conditions are flourishing.

Why? He could sign it and send it to the 3rd party to sign, then post it. There's no need for the 3rd party to know the contents of the message until the 9th.

Exactly.  The trusted party would simply be acting as a notary of sorts "Yes Matt delivered this digitally signed (possibly encrypted) doc to me on xx/xx/xx".  

Bitcoin is Money.

And the inner circles of the Bitcoin community is in The Business of Money.  A very serious business.

In any business Trust is the most important factor.  This scoundrel burnt all his creditabilty to prove what? Thou shall not Trust anyone?

The Bitcoin community has demostrated great integrity and ablility to enforce the social code of Trust.

This liar was dealt with immediate justice.  This is a victory that underscores the integrity of the Bitcoin community to maintain principles.  
Thank you M.N. Wright and the league of Scammers for your lessons.

The Lesson / The Law :: If you enter into a pledge by oath of public promise ... you will honor it.

That is the bedrock of this network of Trust.  

Doesn't someone need to know it so that it can be revealed even if he wins and doesn't want it revealed?

And what is the pretense for withholding info at all "here's a message that may or may not say I'm totally kidding". I mean in the future now mostly.

Well I don't want to spend too much time on this since a) it didn't happen, and b) Matt is a scammy fuck who wouldn't have done it anyways.

Simple version
1) I write a message with my intent and digitally sign it. I then encrypt it and provide it to a trusted person to act as a notary.
2) Trusted person appends date time information and digitally signs the encrypted message.
3) Either me or the trusted persons publicly posts a copy of the double signed & encrypted message.
3) I include in my bet that I automatically lose unless I reveal the secret message at the end of the bet.

There are lots of ways to make a claim/statement provably true after the fact.  That shouldn't be construed as "the only and definitive way".  Lots of options.  Matt chose none.  IMHO (and due to a lot of other factors) it was because Matt made a legit bet and simply walked out on it.  Nothing more.  Just a scamming fuck.

On a bullshit scale with 10 being total bullshit, I would say that several of the above lines score a 9.5 and the remaining ones a perfect 10.

I also happen to disagree about 'trust'.  Ideally 'trust' is completely absent in order to make a transaction work smoothly.  That is, the expected things happen with mechanical precision and no possibility for error.  Obviously that is not practical in most situations, but the closer transactions can approach this goal the better.

I'm getting the sense that some people on this forum are trying just a wee bit to hard to cultivate a persona of wholesomeness.  If I were involved in the economic activity at this point I'd be being wary of some of them.  As it is, I'll be following their exploits with interest.

He just wants to be an actor that's all!

Maybe this isn't the right place for acting.

What this guy did? 6016 posts and scammer?? why god? why??  ???

He went off the deep end.  It happens in bitcoin.

A lot.

I went off the deep end long before the first block was mined.  Interested in PM's, found more plausible explanations for the WTC event observations than Muslims in caves, etc, etc.

In fact, getting interested in Bitcoin and actually trading some USD for BTC pretty much qualifies as a 'deep end' indicator in and of itself.  To most normal people at least.

Why "deep end"? What this guy did? I'm really curious. I don't know why construct a big reputation to just throw away in the rubbish bin...  ???

He made tens of thousands of bitcoins worth of bets, lost, claimed it was a joke.

Read the OP for christsake :)

Really, if you are all that interested, there are a fair number of threads you can track down.  The guy was actually labeled a scammer twice, though under the name 'bitmole' the first time.  My own personal view is that in both cases while he was misguided, he was never what I would consider a 'scammer' in the true sense of the term.  He, like a lot of us, is/was 'off the deep end' from somewhere in the first trimester of gestation.

Right. And the way he started here made it clear he was absolutely untrustworthy, whether he had a scammer tag or not. I'm shocked that anybody chose to trust him with anything.

Thanks for the explanation guys. It is an interesting story, specially of we the newbies, to learn to don't trust anyone. Where can I find more threads about this? Is this guy mental? I did get the point when some people said "he isn't a common scammer". If he stole many bitcoins just "for fun", I think he became rich anyway. It's a very funny joke to the scammer, sure.  ;D  and a sad story to the victims.

I lost 286 USD to a scammer and I am totally hopeless.  :-\

I found a nice quote from a thread that might be what you're looking for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28004.msg373379#msg373379

I could have quoted it, but opted to supply it this way.

~Bruno K~

So let me get this straight, a guy makes a bet involving thousands of Bitcoins and you wonder why he turned tail and ran when everything went south for him? Didn't you idiots learn anything from the financial crisis? I'm so glad Bitcoin is run by math and not by human beings because otherwise we'd be completely screwed by now as the scammed people would all be out protesting and the scammer would receive a bailout so he could conduct his scam again and trick people into giving money.

Look here (http://bitcoinmagazine.com/subscribe/), and scroll down to where you see the five issues side by side. Issues 4 and 5 were produced without Matthew's help, after he pseudo-voluntarily left the company and the community following his $250,000 bet. Issues 1, 2 and 3 were designed with his help (he didn't interfere much in the writing, though).

I think #3 especially provides a pretty good insight to the kind of personality that this guy had.

You're misunderstanding what happened.  Matthew didn't take anyone's money.  He made a bet which he didn't honour - he didn't "become rich" because of that bet.


bitmarket.eu did steal user funds and people are proposing a bail-out.  Bail-outs have been proposed for failed Bitcoin businesses more than once - the relatively small number of Bitcoin services makes the community reluctant to let any of them die a natural death.


Matthew was a bit like the Energiser bunny on amphetamines at times.  While he had some level of involvement in a lot of projects, he was often impulsive and his responses weren't always measured.  His energy could be very scattered and divided at times and he's not the only high profile person in this community of whom that's true.  Visibility and "busy-ness" are not the same as effectiveness.  Matthew certainly had a "big" reputation, but it wasn't necessarily a primarily positive one.

I can easily fall into this camp (see text in bold above), but I'll blame running a RL viable enterprise that provides the necessary livelihood for my family.

Full disclosure, in case the above included me in quoted statement.

Excellent post!

~Bruno K~

I was thinking more of people like JRO, to be honest.

You don't know that. There are any number of ways he could have taken people's money and made himself money because of the bet.

For example, Matthew's bet propped up the price of Pirate debt because people who expected Matthew to honor the debt believed Matthew had reason to think Pirate would pay his debts -- otherwise, why make the bet at even odds? Matthew could have taken advantage of this personally to unload Pirate debt.

There are a number of other possible scenarios.

Hi everyone. I noticed some conversation this month about this, that some people were still fueling speculation, and although I realize some people may wish to consider my word "worthless" because of a single incident, I still feel it is my duty to at least make a statement about it here as a matter of public record.

This bet was a product of my immaturity in handling personal, work, social and performance stress. Long story short, I kind of snapped, let my ego and mouth write a check my ass couldn't cash, and then didn't know what to do and freaked out. I'll be honest, the entire time I was gone thinking about what to do with my life I couldn't stop thinking about what I had thrown away, how stupid the entire bet was, how many people were absolutely right about how pointless and avoidable this situation was, and about how screwed I was as a result.

This poor judgement lost my year's earnings of over $70,000 in cash, salaries, equity, active work contracts and not to mention reputation (to which I embarrassingly admit I didn't really grasp that I even had one to lose at the time). Looking back I can't believe I did it and I want to crawl into a hole and die, but that won't make things right and it would only serve to make numerous incorrect shortsighted opinions of me a reality.

I returned because I felt responsible. I hadn't intended on returning, not because I didn't feel guilty, but because I didn't think I had a place. It wasn't until I witnessed Roger Ver's recent PR goof of arguing on a public forum over a tiny bitcoin balance, embarrassing himself, his partners, blockchain.info and causing a miniature uprising against him that it finally snapped in my head that absolutely anyone can make a lapse of judgement, life is not over, and you can make it up to people.

I'll be honest, financially speaking there is never going to be a way to make it 100% right because I literally promised the world on a silver platter. Luckily for me, the kind, honest and wiser betters involved in all of this have (mostly) all agreed to much more realistic settlements that can be paid off within 3 years (note to others: never bet in BTC because the price increase will probably make a slave to debt for the rest of your life  :-\).

Since I see there is still some unclarity about my actions, I feel the need to repeat it. Despite my admitting that I flip flopped on my original intentions in the face of greed and ego, I did not initially intend to "scam" anyone. I was absolutely going to pay up to 1000BTC, but I stayed up late one night after a fight with Bitcoin Magazine staff and for some reason...that night I just couldn't shut up. I lost control and learned a horrible lesson about self discipline and personal image management-- I did something I could never undo, and knowing I had no way of undoing it, I kept going, like a madman. It is true that there was a good majority of entertainment involved (for many!) and that was the most of the fuel, but I will not deny that deep down there was a fear of what I was doing would ruin my life. I had hoped, like always, that I could just walk away from a bad decision and start over. This is when I learned a lesson I had never had first hand experience with until now: *never fuck with other people's money*.

I felt like the world was out to get me. I became paranoid, I became defensive, and in the end I had lost more friends than I even realized I had. Organizations dissolved, passions and previous work vanished, companies went bankrupt and all sorts of legal action started to fly (not related to the bet, related to companies closing as a result of sudden managerial changes, investor issues, etc). Basically, I proved on a larger stage than I really realized I was on, that I was too immature for the amount of trust that was given to me.

This is where it gets interesting people. I have heard some trolls sniffing around saying hateful things like "Look, he thinks we'll trust him again" or "You'll never earn that trust back, get lost". Well, I don't mean to be rude (I am not in a position to be rude I think), but I am not interested in that trust. I want to function trustless, to do what I do *best*-- making major mistakes, learn from them, grow from them, and as I grow from said mistakes, profit from the experience and share that profit. This bet caused all sorts of growing pains, and not just for me. For that, I'm terribly sorry. I don't want to be the CEO of a service company that handles billions of dollars. But when I left, the break from the forums and chatter calmed my senses and I realized just how much of bitcoin's economic theories and political principles I was completely missing. I came back because there is no life for me without bitcoin. Sure, there's life for me without bitcoiners or these forums, but bitcoin is the future. It may not be the future forever, but it's the next logical step, and I get that. I returned because I wanted to tell everyone that they deserve better than what I showed last year (a net negative) and that I deserve to be a part of a movement despite having made a grave mistake.

I realize that in these social and moral situations the only way to make things right is to pay the price, and I am paying it dearly, and have been paying it dearly since those days. For that, I ask that the conspiracy theories try their best to at least hear me out when I make the following statement in all honesty:

I have never had the intent to rip off or damage the community, just foolishly and selfishly attack, pester and troll certain minorities that I felt at the time were "up against me". I have never been knowingly or willingly apart of anything I believed was a "scam", but I admit that my over eagerness to join in projects, prove my worth, be important, be useful, whatever you want to call it, has been stronger than my sensibilities in dealing with other humans, risks, and commonalities that may seem so obvious to most of you.

And finally, I have never known Pirate, made any deals with him, intended to profit from him, owned any of his debt, stocks, bonds, shares, passthrus, etc. (I simply didn't think that far into what I was doing last year to pull that off anyway). I was in it for the "trololol" entertainment but didn't have the sense to know how many I'd actually be hurting (including my friends) and didn't know when to fucking stop. It's as simple as that.

I'm sorry for letting my friends, colleagues and the general community down (at least the part that may have been entertained and then disappointed later when they found out it was a failure on my part). I hope to make it up to you guys in the coming years as my attitude and personality continues to go through a serious change. Thanks everyone for understanding, and those who don't understand, refuse to forgive/forget and want to follow me around the rest of my life posting responses to everything I say as "didn't you once _____", I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the help you guys have always given me (even if your original intention was to mock) and I've been soaking up criticisms like a sponge for quite some time, I just needed this very long break from this place to let it get to work on me. I feel the need to put down my manchild toys and join the -actually- productive society I pretended to live in before.

Keep it real bitcoiners.

Matthew

someone please move this to off topic.

+1 please hide this shit

"It's not my fault for breaking my promise to you, it's your fault for relying on me to keep it."

"If the tables were reversed, it's entirely possible you would have done something just as bad as what I did."

These are pretty weak arguments.

That said, I do think that the actual damage Matthew did is probably not all that much. Obviously, his victims have every incentive to exaggerate the harm done.

Welcome back Matthew. It is good to see you take responsibility for your actions rather than just hide with your tail behind your legs. I have always supported and admired your passion, drive, creativity and work ethic. I was disappointed with your actions, but I forgive them. Trust can be earned back from me.

For everyone else:
I did not bet anything with Matthew. I had investments with Pirate. I did not gain from his bet, in fact I lost practically all my btc worth to Pirate and that is embarrassing and hard to admit. While some may have been able to offload their debt due to Matthew's irresponsible behavior, lets not forget who committed the original alleged crime here: Trendon Shavers, not Matthew N Wright. I admit any of my emotion and feelings about "the bet" are misplaced feelings from my own stupidity, actions, etc. with trusting in Trendon based on other forum members who I met that seemed to trust in him to repay, both before and after the default. The lessons I learned are many, but none of them are that Matthew deserves no place in this community. I also admit this is easier for me since I did not bet anything with Matthew. I also tried to talk him into taking Trendon's offer to buyout the bet, one late night on IRC. Matthew stood on principle that night, refusing to take the buyout and give up his responsibility. He made the bets and wanted to be sure they were repaid. I think that shows his original intention. Somewhere along the way that was lost.

I have been reluctant to get back into bitcoin, but I love programming, engineering, and economics. I believe in bitcoin and I believe that I can and will be part of the community again, but it will be much more careful and guarded this time.

It is time to forgive all those who are repentant, including ourselves.

Thank you Matthew for coming forward, best of luck to you.

So much drama here - when I was a kid we used to say, "Money talks, bullsh*t walks".

We need secure BTC escrow services - then we'll never have to endure these 40-page docu-dramas...

At this point I vote to remove the scammer tag from Matthew, even because there are several a-holes around here who scammed purposefully even larger numbers of people and did not get it.

BTW: I betted with him and now I think that he is sincere and in any case all the drama in his outstandingly well written posts is worth of his presence.

Not all promises are equal.  Reasonability is the standard used by rational actors for judging the reliability of promises.

EG I could promise you the moon, but you'd be unreasonable and foolish to expect and/or rely on me to actually deliver said orbiting celestial object.

Applied to this situation, we may observe that relying on Matt to honor his bet was greedy, irrational behavior.

Due diligence and common sense demand using an intermediary specializing in brokering bets, of which there are at least two using Bitcoin.

Furthermore, this forum is well known to be particularly unsuitable as reliable venue for wagers. 

It is rife with scams, trolling, humor, pranks, and drama.  And I like it that way.

Anyone who lost money as a result of entering into such an obviously puckish bet, sans escrow, deserves to lose at least one Bitcoin for each they hoped to gain.

*facepalm*

I for one was hoping that he'd have the decency to never show up again.

So then I presume you don't think Pirate owes anyone anything. After all, their relying on him was irrational.

the people who took Mathews bets have some liability in this matter as well. If you let someone get into a hole owing to you when you know that they have little chance of making good on their bet you share some of the risk. This is just like the banks loaning on homes to buyers they know couldn't pay. I am not in favor of removing Mathews scammer X's. I am in favor of suspending part of the debt the debtors are responsible for the debt too and should pay some of the cost. 

The bet didn't start that way.After a while with the bet growing to ridiculous proportions it became was obvious he wouldn't be able to pay but early on the total sum bet was low enough to make it possible for Matthew to repay.

Okay I understand but there has to be a rehabilitation program. If people rip me off then make good they go into probation after a time limit the negative rating would be removed. I would say 7 years. 

Maybe Matthew can list his debt as an "asset" on one of exchanges, with shares assigned based on the respective proportion of the total debt owed to them, and as he works it off he can make dividend payments which will be distributed proportionally to all debt holders.

Let's face it, there were people trying to profiteer from the pirate debacle by buying up pirate debt as cheaply as possible and then betting with Matthew.  One clusterfuck which was driven by greed rather than common-sense got compounded by another debacle driven by greed rather than common-sense.

It's bit like Nigerian scams - they can't work unless potential victims are willing to abandon all common-sense and break the law to boot.  They rely in large part on wilful ignorance on the part of victims.

Hear, hear! Bitcoinica take heed.

Presume all you like my good fellow.  I shan't bother listing all the key characteristics differentiating poor silly old Matt from the rapacious, calculating Pirate@40.

Suffice it to remind everyone that you 'Can't Con An Honest John.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4

^^Warning: sick beatz!11

PS What backs bitcoin? (Been dying to hear your answer.)

Yeah, but it would have to start with Matthew putting his money were is mouth currently is and start coughing up some coin. Even if he cant pay back all his bets, its the only thing that would show he is sincere. "I was absolutely going to pay up to 1000BTC" he wrote,  that would be a good start.

Very good points.

Pirate pass through operators made bank yet didn't get scammer tags, and Prof. Katz defends them.

Only speculation suggests Matt made a single Satoshi from his prank, but he is shunned and labeled a scammer.

Something is rotten here, and we can't be the only ones smelling it.

He labeled himself a scammer, it was a clause of his bet. Even without that clause, willful deceit and not honoring a financial agreement  should give anyone a scammer tag, particularly when we are talking 10s of 1000s of BTC.

As for PPTs, I too think they should be labeled as scammer, but at least you can argue for most of them that they did honor their agreements.

This is true. I agree completely that I asked for a scammer tag plain as day. The point about some others not getting them to me says that there is a need for an additional tag (which Theymos has already declined to make on numerous occasions). It just simply isn't so easy to say someone is a scammer. Deadbeat tag FTW.

I have reported this thread twice to mods.

I'm sick and tired that one mans ego shall be flaunted in one single thread.

There are many ppl making bitcoin great, at this point in time, Matthew is not one of them.


Everybody that agress should report this thread, and ask having it moved to off topic.

I don't think it should even be in the off topic section, put it in the scam accusations board because that's what this is.

I don't see any good in continuing this thread either. The people involved in the bet have a different thread to communicate in about the actual settlements. I support your motion to move it to somewhere more fitting.

+1 for money talks bullshit walks... 

Nothing. Bitcoin behaves more like a commodity than a currency. What backs gold?

Delete your posts from the thread, then it won't bother you anymore.

I am more concerned with the community as a whole. I think threads in the bitcoin sub forum, which is the main forum on this site, should contain mostly useful threads, not gossip, drama and drivel. It's not about my personal incovenience.

lol That's what all the mob inciters say :D

Que ?

How quickly you guys say a post isn't relevant. This is one of the best that I have seen. There are great lessons in this post. Leave it up. This post has it all greed, shame, anger, regret personally I think everyone should read it especially the younger members. It is important that people treat the coins like cash and not just internet play money they need to know what can happen if you play games, ... that you could get seriously hurt with btc.

Why is this is referred to as a bet?  To me, I would view this as a contract of suretyship.  I don't know all of the details involved with the specific individuals that contracted with this guy but there seems to be sufficient evidence that this guy created a contract Which meets all of the statute of frauds for most jurisdictions.  When reading through these posts, I was literally shaking my head at his own postings since they could destroy him if someone sued him.  He has noted that he is naive.  Is he ever.

So... does this mean that this entire thread is a lesson that "The Internet is a Serious Business?"

Then those who think that all this betting business holds legitimacy should run Matthew to a court of law. Seriously, I don't think anyone would ever get to that point, and they wouldn't even win. It would had to be proven without reasonable doubt. Impossible.

The posts at this forum doesn't even hold any kind of legitimacy. If it was matthew in person who wrote all the posts, or someone hacking his account, impossible to prove. By IP-adress ? What if there was a trojan on his computer ? Not plausible, yes - but impossible ?

To me, this is just similar to 'bar-talk'. You know that guy you know ocassionally from somewhere, and meets you at the bar and he goes on and on about the great business you're going to create togheter, or how he's going to visit you with his wife and kids, or how he's going to donate to your chairty of choice. We all know that by the end of the weekend, all that is forgotten, it was only drunk talk. No intentions to ever go through with the promises. Same here. Who could expect that somebody in a distant part of the world, actually would have the financial means, and the will to actually pay foreigners with whom he had no formal contract ?

Sure, some people may put in a legit bet of 10 BTC, or whatever they can afford, but it isn't stopping anyone from claiming that they want to bet 500 BTC. Then if they lost, we'd never see any payment at all. There simply was no downside, apart from damaging the rep of a forum account.

Now, if proper betting was to be done, the full amounts would have to be paid in advance by both parties and held in escrow till the bet is settled, and of course it could not be declared void because of some technicality. You didn't want to put 500 BTC in escrow ? Ok, then that's not a amount you wanted to bet then, bet something you can afford to lose, or don't bet at all!

As much as Matthew have been a drama queen, he's under no obligation at all to pay to anyone. Perhaps some would say he's under a moral obligation, but the legal resposibility and moral obligation usually doesn't sit together. If anyone is 100% sure that Matthew is legaly obliged to pay, then by all means sue him. The court will just laugh the case off. Hi, what - a stranger gave him his word on the internet ? Yeah, sounds like a legally binding contract.

I do not defend his actions, as I think they were just as idiotic as anyone else thinks, but I'm just being realistic here. And if Pirate actually did pay up, how many would honour their bets ? 10%-20%, I'm not sure, but I think the percentages would've been very low.

So - sue or shut up!

I believe the terms were something  like "I'll double the money you didn't send me or accept a scammer tag". He met the terms...he took the tag.

That's ridiculous. This was the provision:

"Anyone (including myself) who renigs on their bets will be labeled a scammer on the forums. Theymos will retain the IP addresses of everyone who has committed here and as you are marked a scammer for not paying, you will also be reported to the bitcoin police and tracked. For this reason, it is important that you do not bet more than you can afford to lose. Considering the high probability of fraud from newbie sockpuppets, only established 250+ post users will be allowed to participate, unless they participate through an escrow who will hold their coins. This is up to them to find the escrow although many posters in this thread have agreed to act as such."

That clearly says that getting a scammer tag would just be one of the consequences for failing to make payment. It does not give him, or anyone, the option of accepting a scammer tag in lieu of making payment.

What if one does not believe the law holds any legitimacy?

Even silence speaks

Surely, if you think the law doesn't hold any legitimacy, then do whatever you think is right, but if you would do something that conflict with what's legal, then you have to be a man enough to face the consequences.

For instance if somebody scammed you of 5K BTC, and you think that the police and legal system is something that you do not care about, and will not use, and then you proceed to beat the crap out of said scammer singlehandedly or with the help of some thugs, don't be surprised if it's you that end up in jail.

I'm not defending the current system, condoning it, neither am I condoning that you commit acts of violence, the only thing I am saying is that you need to pay attention to reality, and reality is that if you do something that's considered illegal, you may face consequences.

So those who happens to be gay in Iran should be "man" enough to have their head cut of ?

Who said I would be doing something illegal?

You're stretching it - but okay. In some countries, being an atheist is a crime. Then you just disguise yourself as a christian whatever, and shut your mouth. You could of course try to change the laws, and take all the heat that comes with that.

As for being gay in Iran, moving from that country would be a great option, as living somewhere where the leaders tell you that you cannot be who you were born to be, is kind of idiotic. So you either move, or keep shut about it. If you go openly about it, and it's against the law, then face the consequences. That's reality, even if it is wrong.

For the last statement, I didn't know this discussion was about you. As for how to get money back, I'm sure there are many people with good ideas.

Oh okay... so if people in north korea don't like how the country is run they can just move. Makes sense, except from that part where they are being shot while crossing the border. :) But hey, if they don't like getting shot in the back while moving they will always have the FREEDOM to shut the fuck up and do as they're told. :)

Speaking as someone living in South Korea, we all wish they would stand up for themselves. They need to overthrow their own government and not depend on outside nations to help. </completely off-topic>

Can anyone explain to me what this BET was?  I've been gone for a while.. seems like I missed something.

 ???

There was this ponzi scheme ran by some guy who went under the name pirateat40... things were falling apart (like they always do in the end with ponzi schemes) and then matthew all of sudden makes a bet: pirate will pay all he has promised.

The bet condition was 100% match, so if you bet 10 btc you'll get 10 btc, if you lose you'll lose 10 btc.

He had set the maximum amount of bets to 10k BTC and after reaching this amount he would close for bets. There was a lot of speculation as to why he did this, I personally started out thinking he was just nuts and actually believed pirate would pay. Although sceptical I figured he could have 10k... based on his history he didn't strike me as a scammer...

Then what happended is people started to hedge by buying up pirate debt bonds and betting etc...

Anyways time dragged on and it became more and more obvious pirate would never pay... at this point matthew just blew his limit and decided to take in massive amounts of silly bets until the amount reached 80k + BTC.

....And then the date came, where he lost the bet.

People felt cheated... he left after this long rant only to return a few months later...

As far as I know he hasn't paid anyone yet, guess time will tell if there is any integrity in matthew or just empty words.

First you didn't like the law, then you visited gays in Iran, next you jump to North Korea. Seems like you're one of these guys that discuss just for the sake of discussing. I really don't have anything more to add. We all know what's north korea is like..

The best korea?

This is a typical Ad Hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) attack often used when pushed into a corner where one is unable to defend ones illogical position.

I just demostrated very clearly by showing you a concrete, real world example of a place where you are not allowed to just "move", this invalidates all your previous arguments and if you are looking for a serious discussion you need to address this flaw in your reasoning before you can continue.

I never participate in a discussion to 'win'. After all this is about Matthew, right ?

Let's continue on topic!