Bitcoin Forum

Edit:  For context Vlads posts were posted because he was acting on behalf of a company that posted my skype logs on this forum (with out my consent or knowledge). They fought over the fact that they had this right so they lose any claim to privacy now. Keep in mind Vlad never talks about this issue in the thread.







Either this is a ploy to get Matthew to have his scammers tag taken down or Vlad is trying to take advantage of our sad situation for example take control of Matthew stake in the company.

Please do not sell your debt to Vlad for nothing. 12 issues of a mag is not worth 5,000 BTC.

Matthew is a scammer and should have the tag. Also Vlad taking over one of the few assets Matthew's debt holders have a chance of claiming is just dirty.

Matthew should give the shares of the company to his real debt holders not to his best friend and long time supporter Vlad.    

You really are a complete slimeball, Goat.  Posting PMs?  WTF is your game.

Goat deserves a scammer tag for posting private conversations without permission.

Its still slimy to do this. Like using your community standing to funnel money to a scammer  :)

Jesus if all the admins/VIPs/whatevers are going to fuck around as badly as the newbies... wtf are we to do?

+1

Oh Lord... Vladimir is trying to get the company equity back from Matthew for the price of a few 12 month subscriptions to Bitcoin Magazine lol

It seems a good idea, better than nothing :) ( and Vladimir doesn't have to )

Yes, because if you don't encrypt them, admins can read them.   Nothing to stop you reposting an ecrypted message to you in the clear, is there goat?  Especially your complete lack of personal morals.

Thank you for confirming for the Nth time to all reasonable people you are an untrustworthy piece of scum, willing to misread and twist words in any way possible post-facto to justify your actions.

Let me get this straight, Matthew has yet to liquidate his equity in BitTalk Media? Has he not already claimed he has cut all ties with Bitcoin Magazine?

I'm open to offers on my 3000BTC bet debt with MNW from either of you with a plan

Good demontration for anyone who ever deals with Goat. Must read before doing any biz with him. Lesson to me too. NEVER BREAK YOUR OWN RULES. I have taken Goat from my shitlist and it was a mistake. back on said shitlist, Goat.

And the offer stays (to everyone not on my shitlist naturally).

Bittalk Media Ltd will buy for a symbolic price Matthew's debt. And we have bought plenty of it already.

P.S. This information was intended to be leaked eventually, so whatever.

It would be nice to see Bitcoin Magazine stake and profits distributed among the Bitcoin community.

To mods: can we have Drama subforum pls? Many ppl are not interested in public dirty laundry washing.

hehe aren't you suing bitcoinica, pirate and now Matthew ?
Your lawyer must love you :P

There's a lot of money to be made here if the law is on their side.

So what did Vlad do that is wrong?  Matt indicated he had cut including ownership of BitTalk.  Guess that was yet another lie made by Matt. If Vlad uses his defaulted obligations as leverage to boost him from the company before he does anymore damage I don't see a problem with it.

Honestly I am not sure what the problem is?  Matt hasn't repaid the debt because he feels nobody is in a posistion to collect.  Vlad believes he is in a posistion to collect. Selling debt to "stronger hands" happens all the time, everyday, all around the world.   Vlad likely wants Matt far far away from the company he is a part owner.  Can you honestly blame him?  Matt has already done significant damage and if it comes out later that Matt still owns a significant stake that will be another blow to the company.   Obviously depsite his "apology" Matt is looking to play hardball and Vlad see his debt as a method to gain leverage.   It is called "big boy business".


Also Goat  posting PM publicly? ???  They are called PRIVATE Messages for a reason.  Nobody is saying it is criminal but it is downright scummy.  Your actions indicate you don't care if a conversation is private you are just going to violate that privacy when you feel like it.   Kinda sends a message that nobody should ever do business with you and nobody should ever tell you anything in confidence.

TL/DR:  "snitches get stitches"  j/k

It seems to me that Vlad is only trying to reduce the impact of MNW's scam. Nothing wrong with that in my eyes.

Matthews assets should go towards a bounty to make a pirate walk the plank.

I'll have to disagree with you, Goat, consolidating the debt would make it easier to get everyone remaining on board for a big class-action suit, it would also streamline the payouts.

I would trust Vlad to do the right thing on behafl of the community over Goat anyday .

I don't know where you got that information. If I'm not mistaken, they could only sue Matthew for not paying them. And that's only theoretically, since no bitcoin-related crimes have ever been punished by law and this one will not be an exemption.

In real economy, there are companies that buy debts from creditors with a discount and then try to make debtors pay and since they have a professional background and good lawyers they are often successful where original creditors are not.

Such businesses are completely legit and benefical.

Also please bear in mind that publicly posting private communication is wrong on many levels. I stopped trusting you a long time ago, and you're only making it worse. Seems like too many respected members of the community are untrustworthy (i.e. completely unreliable or with downright scamming tendencies).

you feel a 10 000 btc bet 2 days before the deadline is a serious legal obligation?

"Haha, you trusted me, you idiot!"

You have just validated every bad thing everyone has ever said about you.

And he won't care. That's just how he rolls.

I haven't seen such a demagogic hypocrite in a long time.
I am disgusted.

You mean anyone who, in your sole judgment, makes such offers. And since your judgment seems to be a bit hard for other people to follow (I'd love to hear why you think this offer is illegal), I think we can safely extend that warning to anyone who would trust you at all.

You don't have a chance. It isn't worth the time. Talk to a lawyer.
If somebody promises you a Million $ to give him a blowjob would you do it and sue him afterwards if he ain't pain'?

Goat. When someone sends you a pm. This is supposed to be a communication between you and that person.
And when in addition, they ask you not to tell it to anyone else, then it's imperative to keep it confidential.

If you got to know something very important that would justify that the messages went public, like 'dev xxx working with the CIA, and here's the evidence',
it could be another matter, then you'd be a whistle blower.

But in this case, you're announcing an unimportant matter, from a private discussion. This means that you can't be trusted.

Anything that anyone tells you in private, be it in person, on a forum pm, or through any other medium is not sure to be kept secret from your mouth.

This everyone should be aware of now. If you pm Goat something and he doesn't like it, or think it's justified to make it public, he will.

What you did is called back stabbing, and it erodes all trust.


This is correct. Due to the high level of security and privacy many bitcoiners want and expect, this message needs to be seen in light of that.
If you knew SMF, you'd know that everything is stored in a database. This means that anyone with access to said data may potentially read and
copy it.

Anyone in this case, would be admins, and staff doing the physical hosting.

What the message from Theymos means, and which should be rather obvious is that PM privacy is not a 100% guarantee. But in most cases it
is completely private, so let's say that under normal circumstances it's 99.9999% sure to be kept private.

But there are ways to get out any pm of the system if you have the right access, and that's why it cannot be guaranteed. To ensure 100% privacy
for private messages they needs to be encrypted (PGP).

Theymos' message did not give you a get go to abandon what's considered customary among businessmen and traders, that means to keep
messages internal, esp. so when it's asked that you keep it secret.


When you receive a personal message, you expect this to be a private message for you. You don't post all your received pm's publicly in the forum,
because they're your private pm's. Private or personal, doesn't matter. PM's you receive are intended only for the receiver(s).
You're not putting forth a good argument here.


So when Theymos said: "Note: PM privacy is not guaranteed. Encrypt sensitive messages.", you came to the conclusion that PM's can be posted ?

How are you protecting anyone at this point ?

Vladimir is a business man, and as we all know, in business you can't be the 'nice guy' to be successfull. I don't think you should be an outright criminal,
but when some business men for whatever reason back off, some others see their chance to get in.

Seems like this situation only hurt yourself Goat. Perhaps at this point, it should be time to shut up, and if you're serious about getting any money
back from whatever party, consult a lawyer and the police. Yapping at the forum doesn't bring you anywhere in this regard.

What I've established now is that you first ran a PPT, then you divulge private information. So it seems that you lack some morality and business ethics,
which again makes me do not want to do business with you at any point.

First he has to make  a post asking the community to send him donations to sue Vlad  :D

I don't think this is about law. For Vlad, I think this about his personal code of ethics. He believes that Matthew is responsible for his debt and he believes that he is responsible for amounts he owes Matthew. He sees it as personal justice to use the debt Matthew doesn't honor to pay off the debt he feels he personally has to honor. At least, that's my guess. If so, I think that's pretty awesome and speaks to Vladimir's character.

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/9/9e/HA_HA_HA,_OH_WOW.jpg
Good one!

Vlad thinks it's worth 2 year subscriptions of a magazine - whats your estimation?

please keep the community updated about your lawyers costs, that could be entertaining... have fun with the Koreans!

do you want to buy my MNW debt about 100btc?
just pm me an offer...

So you might be interested in buying my 50 BTC bet with Matthew (made on August 22) at a 70% discount?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751.msg1122860#msg1122860 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751.msg1122860#msg1122860)

This misses a very critical legal point. Does BitTalk and Vlad have right of offset on Matt's debt? If I were in Vlad's position I would be getting legal advice pronto. Seriously. Otherwise Matt could potentially bankrupt BitTalk over this.

Maybe I'm just a noob at this, but HOW?

I'll sell my 250BTC for 25BTC.

I'll sell my 3000BTC bet for 270BTC (9% is better than 10%, buy bulk and save)

+1

Goat is so needing a scammer tag for many reasons now. 

There should be a poll :)

+1 this is a fantastic idea!

+1

slimeball tag for goat!

IANAL
I am going use Pirateat40 as an example since unlike this case it is fairly straightforward to establish the amount of the damages in court. In Matt's case the first question that comes to mind on the other hand is: Would a court consider a scammer tag on bitcointalk.org liquidated damages in the event of a default? So it is actually a lot worse for Vlad and BitTalk.

So let us say I purchase some Pirateat40 debt at say 5 bitcents on the BTC. I spend another 5 bitcents per BTC on debt collection efforts, get Pirateat40 to settle for say 15 bitcents on the BTC without forcing him into bankruptcy for a cool 100% profit. Sounds great? Not really. Let us say the other Pirateat40 creditors force Pirateat40 into bankruptcy shortly thereafter, and his bankruptcy estate cannot pay them 15 bitcents on the BTC. The bankruptcy estate can then sue me for the 15 bitcents per BTC pre-bankruptcy settlement.

So wait I can sell my worthless matthew debt to van for bitcoin magazines.

I have 6 btc owed by matthew, please send me some magazines.

Goat,

let me get this straight.

You make a bet with someone you should know he hasn't the money, at a time when it is absolutely sure you can't loose and all signs pointing to that he won't pay.

And now you are posting private messages of someone who is willing to give you something just out of good intentions and no other reason to do so.

And then you start bitching about this person.

Do you have any sense for social behaviour at all?

Guys like you make me sick.

MNW has a dept?

you cant be saying his dept is the bet he lost.... is it?

+10


Will the sockpuppet that still trusts goat please stand up?

Well, from the PM's he posted it's not quite like that in Goats case. Ask for agreement on confidentiality THEN send the confidential information in a separate message afterwards.

The following is how to create an agreement:

    Alice: "I'd like to keep this confidential, is this OK with you?"

    Bob: "Yes"

    *Conversation ensues*

The following is how to create a silly situation:

   Alice: "I'd like to keep this confidential. I've just taken advantage of Carol, she's such a sucker"

   *Possible Drama in the making*

I don't get this thread?  Attention seeking or else? wtf?

Also, correct your punctuation and spelling on the thread topic.

Goat, if you really want some well-deserved recognition, bring Pirate to justice & stop wasting time.

In theory but i don't see how you think it could bankrupt BitTalk.  BitTalk has no liability regardless. At most it could cause a personal loss to Vlad but even that is unlikely.  For those who are interested the concept is called voided debt.  First (at least in the US) only payments made 90 days prior to a bankruptcy petition can be voided.  


Lets say hypothetically Vlad buys up 40K BTC of Matts debt (the risk to the company is lower the more of the debt he owns).  He buys Matt's share of BitTalk for 40K of debt.  Note BitTalk the legal entity isn't a creditor or debtor in the situation.  The sale (if any) would be between Matt & Vlad.  Now hypothetically Matt files bankruptcy in the next 90 days.  Technically other creditors in the bankruptcy could move to void the payment (of equity) between Matt & Vlad.  


I would point out this is a legal longshot and probably not one worth worrying over. One Matt is almost certainly not filing for bankruptcy over this.  No bankruptcy no risk of voided payment.  Two it is very unlikely the courts would see an online gambling debt made by pseudonyms involving a virtual currency on an unregulated forum as a valid creditor in the bankruptcy.  If they don't then they other bettors have no method to petition the payment be voided.

Even if those things happen (and if I was Vlad I would like my odds) the company has no liability this is just a sale of equity between one shareholder and another.  The company neither gains nor loses in that transaction. 

Given the limited loss even if the grossly unrealistic worst case scenario (and honestly I am not recommend anyone hold on to their debt thinking this will happen because it won't) I don't really see there being much of a realistic risk for Vlad.

It seems to me that Vlad is trying to reduce the impact of MNW's scam on MNW and perhaps on Bitcoin Magazine.

This.

A good rule of thumb is to assume anyone with a "VIP" is a scammer

Bold on the Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย quote my emphasis. It is Bittalk Media Ltd, who is liable here. What we are talking about here is a corporation turning over some of its shares held in trust for one of its shareholders in exchange for some very questionable liabilities of the shareholder, without a right of offset, with multiple international jurisdictions involved and where the shareholder in question is at risk of bankruptcy! Talk about a legal hornets' nest. The legal fees to clean up this mess alone can easily bankrupt many a business start up.

No there will be no legal consequences. Bets from private persons to private persons are not accountable. There is no single case where any curt has seized someone's property due to a bet.

On a betting office you make a contract or buy a batch. That's a different thing.

I actually tend to agree that any liabilities arising from this bet are very likely worthless. It is what is been proposed in exchange for these "liabilities" that can lead to very serious and complex legal problems.

Well both can't be true.   Matt can sell his equity for a fart in a bag if he wants to. 
So either there is a liability recognized by the court(s) or no legal problem will rise from it.

That may be true, although one interesting way of looking at this is that Matthew was actually peddling an insurance product rather than a gambling wager as classically understood. I don't have all the transcripts of what exactly Matt himself said, but there was certainly a lot of discussion about this being a way to hedge a Pirate default.  Financial insurance products such as credit default swaps and even classic insurance are all "bets" in a way between those exposed to risk and those offering an offset.

So it may be that for many Matthew bets, there was no skin in the game, and it was just a wager on the sideline about whether Pirate will pay, just like whether Liverpool will win.  But for those holding Pirate debt and looking for a hedge, this contract worked more like insurance and, depending on what Matthew said about it, might be more solid in terms of a liability in legal proceedings.  Maybe.

I missed that but I still don't see how BitTalk is liable for anything.  If Matt choses to trade some of his liabilities for the equity in BitTalk that is his choice.  If he is insolvent (legal definition) and seeks bankruptcy then the tx could be voided but there is legal consequence.  BitTalk could take a loss (in theory) but the odds of all that happening are essentially nil.

As long a Matt does this of his own free will and without duress, yes of course. Now what exactly is the "leverage" that Bittalk Media Ltd. has here?

I tend to disagree again. This is solely a PR deal to minimize damage to the companies reputation.

Companies do this all the time to people wronged by one of their staff members.

But I'm not completely sure this time. Might be a problem, but I don't think so.

As long as Bittalk Media Ltd. does not in any way allow this to influence their relationship with Matt with respect to Matt's stock yes. Otherwise there can be serious problems.

Ok, so here's a question:

In the event of a MNW bankruptcy, and assuming he still held partial equity in Bitcoin Magazine, what would happen to that equity?  Would it be sold by the state at auction?  Would it be offered for buyout to the other shareholders at the highest bid price?  Would it be distributed to the creditors?

Also, are individuals treated the same as corporations when it comes to bankruptcy?  If a person is known to be bankrupt soon, then they shouldn't pay anyone, but save what they have to be distributed to the creditors evenly?  I've never heard of that happening in a personal bankruptcy case, so it just seems odd to me... I've never heard of anyone not being able to choose who they want to pay right up to the point that they make the official declaration of bankruptcy.

It would be up to the court and the bankruptcy trustee to sell or transfer that equity for the benefit of the creditors. There may be restrictions of the sale of the equity that would give the remaining shareholders first rights, options to purchase etc. This type of agreement is not uncommon in business startups. As for payments to a creditor by a debtor in anticipation of bankruptcy, these can be reversed in many cases by the other creditors.

To confirm, those payments can be reversed even in the case of personal bankruptcy?

Meh, I trust Vlad less than I trust Matthew.

Yes please.

OT: At least Matthew was intelligent enough to be entertaining. Goat is just goat, as usual.

Any payment can be "voided" if allowed by statute (in the US it is 90 days prior to the BK petition).  However it is rare for personal payments to be voided.  

An example of a common BK. Someone is in debt (lots of creditors - multiple CC, a signature loan, a loan on a jet ski, loan on car, student loan, mortgage etc).   They get into financial trouble and the liabilities are more than the income.  This person decides to forget the jet ski, CC, and signature loan.  They use the little income they have each month to keep making payments on their mortgage and car note. Technically the trustee could void the prior 3 mortgage and car payments, return that cash back to the bankrupted estate and divide it among creditors.  In 99.9% of the cases the trustee won't.  It is human nature to try and save your home.  The debtor hasn't done anything which indicates that he is trying to defraud anyone. 

Another example.  Same debtor as above but he has $10,000 in gold coins.  He decides to sell the gold coins to his brother for a lawn mower worth ~$100, 90 or less days before the BK petition.  The trustee would likely void this payment.  The gold would return to the estate.  The brother would become a secured creditor and could either seek to get his lawn mower back or get fair market value on a prorated basis with other creditors.  It is quite obvious the intent of the sale was to defraud the creditors.

In the real world most cases fall in between those two.  Just because a trustee "can" void a payment doesn't mean they always will. There is no absolute rule, or "line in the sand".  Generally speaking trustees use common sense to determine an equitable arrangement. There are far too many unique situations for the law to specify in black and white how to handle every situation.

Thanks D&T, that's exactly the sort of clarification I was looking for.

\

Time to bring in some new blood.   I love this forum, we just need to clean it up so we can take it to the next level.

One thing that I would add is that the period is longer if the parties are not dealing at arms length. Here is Canada it would likely be 12 months for the $10,000 in gold coins / lawn mower trade with a family member. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-3/page-68.html#h-32 (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-3/page-68.html#h-32) I do agree it is rare in personal bankruptcies but it can happen especially if there are non arms length deals involved.

I think its ironic that I gave Matt the option to pay me in a bitcoin magazine subscription rather than paying me directly, it wouldn't have saved him much, but I was thinking I was helping him.. And thanked me for the opportunity.. If it was a big joke, right there he should have told me, "hey, its  really a big scam" but no, he agreed to pay me with a magazine subscription instead of the coins.. So, right there voided his technicality...

But, I would hope that all monies that are payed to Matthew to buy him out from Bitcoin Magazine will/should be used to pay back the bet. Not going to hold my breath, but that's how it should be..

At fair market price or at the diluted price they're trying to force Matthew to accept?  It's sure as hell not in the interests of anyone planning to sue Matthew that he accepts a token payment for his stake in BitTalk Media Ltd.

Oh right you trust PPTs and pirate more than both of them too huh.

LOL comedy gold.

"pirate is going to pay"

LAWL!

Wait...someone is buying mnw debt?

My bet with him was for 2000btc, make me an offer.

Wow, no way I'm trading in Matt's debt to me for a years subscription to his own magazine. lol.  Crazy.

Now if you want to talk equity, I'm listening.  Otherwise, hahahaha.

So then my question is what is our (holders of MNW debt) next step? I have not been contacted by anyone including Vlad.  BitTalk is assuming Matt's debt or trying to.  They are offering monetary value for Matt's debt, i.e. mag subscriptions.  This leads me to two conclusions.  1. They are trying to assume Matt's stake in the company to take over his assets in the company to get rid of him. 2. They are trying to sweep this under the rug and allow Matt a "get out of jail free" option.  Both of which acknowledge Matthew's obligations to his debt holders and his contract to us.  Period.

I will not settle for a year subscription.  I see them desperately trying to achieve that.  Matt owes me 1000 BTC.  Matt co-owns Bittalk.  Either I get equity or I have to move on to other means to get my legally obligated debt.

Why haven't you contacted me Vlad?  I'm owed just as everyone else.  I do not like what I see right now.  Nor do I like my options.

I would love to know the so called "lots of people that have given you personal information"

That is seriously scary..


On another note..

I must state that I dislike matthew and his childish ways..  But only because he was bigger than himself, he was in a position of power, a figure head for bitcoin, and was screwing it up, making bitcoin look bad..

But for christ sakes people..

Did you really take this bet that seriously?


Suing Matthew ?   ffsakes..  Can we do something more productive ?

Dont we have actual bigger fish to fry..   ie (Douchbag@40)



Goat..  with you trying to sue the world for the people that scammed you, how do you devote enough time to even one scammer ?

have to agree. What matthew did was wrong, but he was punished sufficiently for it. Labeled a scammer, "excommunicated", lost his job and (soon?) all his bitcoin related assets that he helped create. Considering there was no conceivable way Matthew was going to profit from this "scam", he didnt profit from it, and its difficult to argue anyone really lost anything, Matthew has paid a fair price for his mistake IMO,  particularly when you compare it to pirate, and the scams that are still ongoing today. Energy would better be directed there than kicking matthew while he's down.

mh, this is going to become a full-time job.

MNW never took anyone's money trying to sue him on a broken promise is absurd or is that just the american way to sue for anything and trying to get him deported is wrong.

Best thing said in this thread.

VIP = buying confidence = con men most of the time.

-1 for Goat.

I (stupidly) used to think this guy is the real deal and the most honest on the forums for posting so much personal info and working for charity but now ... he is a joke.

Just another pirate shill.

Well, I've still yet to hear from Matthew or Vlad, yet Matthew has been active on the forum as recently as today, in fact 3 seconds ago from the time of this post.  I have limited time to jerk around with this as I'm a single father who owns a small business. Time is money and also time lost with family to break away and check on this.  I will be looking to recoup the expenses of my time and if needed lawyer costs, though I don't want to go this route.  I would personally love to be contacted by Matt or Vlad so that we may conclude this mess and resolve Matt's debt (either through payment in full or an equity offer) that Matthew Neil Wright co-owner of BitTalk and Bitcoin Magazine created.

Thanks.

Goat-

You have proven yourself to be simple minded with this.

You post edited versions of a PM and expect people to accept this nonsense? You spread FUD and foolishness to what end? Just trying to deflect attention from yourself and your love affair with all things pirate? Couldn't stay out of the limelight for two whole days and had to call attention to yourself with an issue that you have no standing in?

Yes, Matty still has a stake in the holding company of the magazine. My understanding is that there are currently negotiations underway to buy him out. That ownership share is nothing that anyone could "claim", any more than a creditor could "claim" the house that Goat lives in in satisfaction of his debts created through participation as a shill and collection point for the pirate fraud.

Unless there is a whole lot more to the communication you have not shared, you have no concept why anyone might be offering to buy debt from you, although it is telling that you consider your payments to pirate to have some value that could be sold. Clearly creating a bridge that blows right past your silly little excuses about how pirate's scheme had nothing to do with you, and how you are protected by some nonsense "it's risky" language you posted AFTER you started selling the shares.

So what you are in effect considering here, is selling an asset created by your abuse of fiduciary responsibility, obtained with funds given to you in trust, that you remain liable for, so that you can personally continue to profit from the wreckage of a scam that you were a key participant in? Or will you post your repayment scheme for how anything Vlad offered you was going to go to your creditors whose money you are being so cavalier with?

When will you learn to STFU? Do you really think you are the only person any of the principals in this matter are communicating with? Do you really think that editing PM's and producing bullshit like this is going to take the heat off of your own behavior?

Oh wow! I have totally been missing out on this. This story is much bigger than I thought it was!

Well, time to get me some cornflakes.

Let's face it.  It's in the best interests of anyone who believes they can successfully sue Matthew that he receives the maximum price possible for his interest in Bittalk Media.  It's in the best interests of those wanting to acquire his interest in BitTalk Media that they pay the minimum price possible.  Forcing him to sell at a fire sale price is actually against the interests of those people who believe they can successfully sue him over any bets he made with them.

Best case scenario, we get what we ask and Matthew gets deported.

Worst case scenario, Matt gets deported for illegal online gambling.

Both of which will drag bittalk and bitcoin magazine's name through the mud for having a co-owner co-creator scammer on their team.  Im willing to see both through to the end if I have to.

Of course we dont need to get that far, they can contact us but have opted not to for some reason.

"This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass."

What makes you think that either of those things is even remotely likely to happen in the real world?

My best guess is nothing will happen.

And perhaps it's better that way.

Lol, since you are on my ignore and I've opted to see your comment I'll answer you.  I can sue whoever I want.  It's my money and I will if I feel I've been wronged.  Period.  That is the real world.

Second, it's in Matt's, Vlad's, Bittalk's best interest not to let it get that far.  They will be implicated and reported on.  That is the real world.

Back to ignore you go.

Do you want to be my first target?

I personally agree with goat here, assuming everything said here was true.  If vlad posts his Skype conversations, why can't goat post vlads? 
On another note, is Goat Pirate?  No, he's not.  Plenty of people would have lost money without him.
Also, that rate is funny.

It's a private company and any transfer of interests has to be consented to by the other shareholders.  They don't even have to accept any offers for Matthew's interest at or above market value - they can reject every outside offer made for his interest if they want to and use this as an opportunity to either expand their own interests in BitTalk Media or bring onboard a pet investor at a rock bottom price without diluting their own holdings. 

Do you really think they'd consent to Matthew's interest being transferred to and divided among tens or hundreds of people - it would make running the company a nightmare, apart from anything else.  I suspect that if Matthew could do it, he'd do it just to spite Vlad at this point.

I have to agree.  This suing MNW for a broken promise is daft and just helping deflect heat off Pirate.  An american would sue you for farting in his back yard for nasal assault if they thought they could make money on it.  Where's there blame there's a claim pff.  What he did was wrong but you don't just sue people because they pissed you off.  Go waist your money on solicitors then anyway this thread is just deflecting heat off suing Pirate.  Who did actually take lots of peoples money.

Edit:  I'm not saying what MNW did wasn't wrong. It was a definite scam as I'm sure he would have kept they payments if he won.  So this scam shouldn't be forgotten. 

Oh, silly, silly Goat... let's take it by the number shall we?

I know they are edited because I have direct personal knowledge of the negotiations, and have seen a level of communication between the principals that speaks volumes differently than your tripe.

What exactly is your "debt" with Matthew, except for perhaps the value that you helped pirate steal from him is he invested in any of your shills for the pirate pass through? Do you think Matt somehow owes you money for your "wager" and you tried to double dip in your thieving ways? So sorry, no sale chump, the bet was a phony from the word go, and there is no possible way for you to prevail in prosecuting this perceived obligation. But go ahead and try... the world needs yet another laugh at your expense.

True, not everything you do is pirate related, although as his slavish devotee, you have certainly done enough damage to this community and your reputation in it as the mouthpiece for pirate's crimes. You will be held accountable for them in due order, and I for one, am looking forward to that particular fall from grace.

Your were schooled about PM's earlier because you whined in an ignorant fashion about other equally distasteful PM's that you were a part of. Go ahead and keep trying to stomp on your own integrity- you won't find any. Official policy is NOT what they have, and you are a complete fuck-wit for believing that anything in this Shakespearean drama queen production has anything to do with you, or debt. You are looking at a power play between folks that are actually good at playing the game, and you are a predictable pawn being played like a cheap harmonica.

Plot? Secret plot? No, dipshit, it is part of a very public negotiation that is being discussed on a regular basis by the folks involved in it. You are like the worthless little yellow journalist who is used to inject certain rumors into the mix to allow plausible deniability, and a scape GOAT if the ploy doesn't work as intended.

Actually, when I am asked to keep confidential matters confidential, both honor and basic good business common sense compel me to keep them confidential. Especially if I am held to this standard as a requirement for obtaining the information in the first place. Being a little school girl bitch who just can't keep a secret is not the way real people do business in the real world. Ever wonder why you are such a laughing stock? It's the way you do things.

News Flash! Vlad won't get Matthew's share of the Company. There is discussion of a buyout of both Matthew's share and another owner's shares, that will be done by an outside investor, or by the enterprise as a whole. Dumb-ass, you were being played because they knew you couldn't keep your candy ass little girl mouth shut, and somebody wanted to get certain ideas out in public. Are you even sure who you were talking to? You did demand bona fides before entering into a "secret" negotiation didn't you?

Moi, a fool? Au contraire mon petite chou. I don't let others piss in my face an tell me it is raining- that is your specialty. And you really need to stop flattering yourself. You are just one of pirate's many little fuck-toys who did his bidding in this crime. You just happen to be the loudest mouth of the bunch, so you make yourself a target. If you would take some well-intentioned advice and shut the fuck up, lawyer up and start worrying about how to pay your victims back, you might have some relevance. Right now you are just another cockroach scurrying around.

And, no, nobody thinks you are pirate, most especially me. You don't have the criminal mastermind chops to lick the sweat off pirate's balls, he pulled it off, you just keep hanging around after the music stopped pulling yourself off.

tl;dr

LG, you should be writing for bitcoin magazine!

Loup, you make me wet, please stop it.

At the moment, I'm not for or against either Goat or Loup, but I do enjoy reading Loup's toots.

~Bruno~

Hmmm, another little roach retreating to the bastion of "bet me or it isn't real". Guess what numbnuts? I don't wager on little dramas in the bitcoin world. And just like I have told every other scammish fuck-wit who thinks that challenging someone to a wager is the way to ascertain truth (hint: it isn't!) I bet on three things, and three things only; craps, Premier League Soccer and American Football. Beyond that, I could give a damn about about your criteria for proof. This isn't about theymos, it isn't about who may or may not have written you (and you really need to ponder on that concept!) and what the content of those messages might have been. You were played like a fiddle at a barn dance, and you ain't going home with Emmy Lou, just your sad empty sense of entitlement, and your rapidly decaying public image.

You were set up by somebody to spill those beans, because somebody knew it would impact their position in the negotiations. Take off your jackass cloak for ten seconds and think about your revelations here... who gains by buying pirate debt? Does anybody think that there will be ten cents on the dollar from pirate? Oh, hell no. If the issue is holding Matty accountable for his self-immolation through ill-conceived bet placements, what impact does pirate debt have? The only people who make the connection between pirate debt and Matthew's bet are the pathetic fools who hoped to fleece Matt and get even by wagering on the impossible, and taking Matt's money to replace that which they flushed away with scamming pirate boys like you. Has exactly zero impact on the value of Matthew's stock in any Company, and you and the rest of the lynch mob hoping to seize that asset have no chance in hell of attaching that asset in any way. Talk to your online lawyer pal to verify that.

And since you have decided that suicide is your preferred method of dealing with things... please humor the class in exactly what scam I am involved? Did I run a pass-through? Nope, that was you. Did I start a mining company on GLBSE, manage to fuck up the hardware ten times til Tuesday, have to run through RMA's like they were Thai child prostitutes, and then decide to liquidate the "company" without submitting it to the shareholders? Again, that would be you, Goat the Glamorous Jet Setter and Confidant of International Criminals. Did I drain a fund that I had taken in trust for investors so that I could fly halfway around the world to sit and admire pirate with dreamy eyes, and then publicize photos of myself with redneck hookers and cheap spilled beer on my shirt to flaunt my disregard for my investors? Wrong again, that is the Goatse Boy again.

So tell us- which scam am I involved in?

And as to Vlad- he and I have exchanged exactly one pair of communications, primarily centered around the shots that I took at the Magazine's fulfillment issues. I am delighted to report that my order showed up yesterday.

So, in case polysyllabic diatribes are a bit much for you... no I won't bet, no I am not a scammer, and no, the light will not leave you and your actions scammer. Just keep talking, I love watching you pull the rope out to hang yourself with.

LG, why do you care? What a waste of time on your part. I hope you're being paid.

Golly guys, do you really think I could get paid for pointing out the false flag players in the game? Cool! Where do I submit my invoice?

Goat. Goat. Goat.

You did understand that SysRun was being sarcastic on the subject right? And that your horrendously misspelled piling (it's "too", dipshit) on is simple minded.

So many random people? No, just the same group of folks who have been consistent, open and honest, and advance their thoughts on people who take others money with impunity and arrogance.

Sorry I don't play the "bet me or it's false" game. I realize you were hoping to recover another 100 btc through the expedient of wagering, but unlike Matthew, I don't roll that way. Wagering on the truth makes it a moving target, sort of like your integrity, so I don't go there.

Destroying my reputation? Really? How? By challenging you and your dishonest business practices? By keeping your lies and fabrication in the public eye? How is that hurting my reputation? What? Am I raising your ire? Having a reputation as anything other than a pitbull tearing you apart for your theft and fraud as a part of the pirate scheme would be my only concern, and I am confident that I could see that well in advance of your musings on the subject.

What doesn't add up, to put none too (ah look, that's how we use that word!) fine of a point on the riposte- is the balance sheet of Goat Tigger Enterprises- begging for coins to establish a reputation, begging for advice as you stumbled helplessly through your start-up months, and undisputed string of hardware blunders that cost your investors, incessant whoring for the cause of all things pirate when you were invited into the inner circle of PPT accounts, loud and unending support, love and adoration for pirate as you siphoned many, many bitcoins from your victims and delivered them to pirate, and now, as you begin the collapse your little empire- fractions of the core value returned to investors, desperate scams to get more funds because you missed out on the big bucks with pirate, and gambling as a way of life.

You sad little bastard. My integrity is not for sale. Yours was delivered up on your knees in front of pirate in Vegas, and publicly proclaimed for all to see with every word (however badly misspelled!) coming from your keyboard.

BurtW is probably the worst ponzi-sucking scum around here, but he just powers through. Goat is definitely another bottom-feeder, but what makes him special is that he's trying to look respectable. Not very successfully, obviously.

Goat, you should just STFU. You're in enough trouble already.

I'll sell my BTC500 in MNW debt, it's the much more valuable early debt before things went sideways.

Things I would accept.
1) BTC10
2) 12 issue subscription the Bitcoin Magazine
3) Jalapeno Preorder

Other negotiable items would be a GPU or a nice back massage. I'm moving around all the shelving in my garage so I can insulate it and my shoulders are killing me.

This is your wake-up call.

You are closely involved with an international ring of financial fraudsters which has stolen millions of dollars in an exotic "untraceable" digital currency and may be actively working to launder the stolen funds via gpumax. You are offering "securities," denominated in this exotic currency, without a license, on a bogus, unregulated market. Generally, this combination of novelty and profile (despite the relatively low amouts of money involved) gets the attention of prosecutors. Your identity is either known or easily obtained.

If you aren't a complete imbecile, you should at the very least be concerned.

We were just looking for a sacrificial lamb (or at least a scapegoat)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-saeKOpX96gg/TsOZXq7NTnI/AAAAAAAAAIA/16uLKFIR_ZI/s1600/sacrificial-goat.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-saeKOpX96gg/TsOZXq7NTnI/AAAAAAAAAIA/16uLKFIR_ZI/s1600/sacrificial-goat.jpg
Sacrifice me if you must, but if I'm not in contact with BittyLeaks
within 24 hours, the rest of your PM's will be released. Your Call.

Reading Goats responses makes me laugh..



Mmmmm Piss..   

Stay classy San Diego...

So, now that deflection isn't working, and wagering is a non-starter, and the facts haven't changed- what will your next act be little sad-faced clown?

Did you actually think Teflone has me on ignore? You just never stop to amaze. You really are like the herpes of this community, something that is irritated and disgusting, and you just can't get rid of it, no matter what you do.

Golly, don't you need to be working out the super secret friends suing pirate details? You have creditors counting on you- hop to it man, get that Government paperwork lined up, so the Government can handle the lawsuit for you.

You are, if nothing else, pure pathos is a plain vanilla wrapper. Get busy Binky, there's laws to flaunt!