Bitcoin Forum

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJFQLZ2UYAAJHhY.jpg:large

Source: https://twitter.com/100bitcoin/status/617362782443298816

ok sounds good on the surface but what about those who dont have access to computers, although in this day and age its not common many people such as the eldery tend to stay away from computers.

Computer/Smartphone... availability of either clears the path to secure bitcoin. Most of the youngsters with a decent economic status have access to either of these. And most of the family generally have youngsters.

The current problem of Greece is they can not pay against the bitcoin they want to secure. It is the liqudity crisis of bank. That is why, each family across the globe needs to secure part of their wealth in bitcoin, while the crisis has not yet hit them.

Nice Campaign banner, Greeks are ready pretty much to use bitcoin in this hard times, lets make sure they share this on their social media to get something good going in their local media sites.

Now that's a very good use of a strong image!

Source: https://twitter.com/100bitcoin/status/617362782443298816

Just Retweet :)

I saw the Greece ATM picture on Reddit earlier, a very sorry sight for sure.

The situation over there (and potentially for what looms for other nations) is terrible, but I can hardly imagine citizens attempting to buy Bitcoin with their Euros. Surely it is getting access to the funds which is the problem in the first place.

Also I don't think that I would want to secure the majority of my wealth in Bitcoin, to even invest a significant portion I would need to full understand how I would go about procuring coin, and ensuring its safe deposit.

The fact that governments and banks allow for things like this to even come about is awful.

people should never invest the majority of their wealth in anything. 10% of your total balance for investing is more than enough. especially when it comes to highly volatile investments as bitcoin.

What is the problem? I cannot see the picture on the OP.

really awful situation the Greeks have to deal with specially all the old and retire folks not getting their pension on time nor complete so imagine a person that relies only on their pension and the government is cutting their funds thats pretty much a slow death to the older people on Greece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_AMxP8eyVc

Picture showing up just fine for me.

Also agree this is quite the moving banner.  Image of a Greek citizen obviously of retirement age literally at wits end.  How can one help but feel for the people of Greece with this kind of imagery.

The Greek ppl are suffering this kind of problem. For us outside Greece, it is a hard lessson for us! It is time to switch a portion of money to crypto!

what? is this even an excuse? you have mobile phone, public desktop ecc..., even with a 56kbps you can run the client, all others belong to a minority, you can not please everyone... you know

@OP i like how you are advertising 100bit.co, that exchange is great and more anon than localbitcoin, it should be definitely used more

Lol wow.

The image is really impressive! Hopefully more bitcoin related businesses are doing such kind of campaign. It also makes viewers think about the situation the Greek ppl are facing and we may face it in the future.

I have to admit that the poster is impressive. That said, if you want the Greeks to start trusting Bitcoins, things like these are simply not enough. The young Greeks have hardly any money in their hands, and it is the middle-aged and the elderly, who are having at least some sort of wealth with them. But since Bitcoin is a currency which is more suited to the young and tech savvy population, its adoption will remain limited among the Greeks.

There were a few people on the Bitcoin Reddit claiming that the Greeks should have turned to Bitcoin before it got this far. Never heard such nonsense.

It's especially sad for the older generation who have worked so hard their whole lives, relying on a traditional system to honour their end of the arrangement in the banking system.

I hope that some resolution is made soon to allow for some degree of normality, the levels of stress and worry for people must be through the roof.

Powerful shot

There were rumors the Greek banks might start using customer's money to bail themselves in if they go bankrupt. After the last financial crisis plans were made across the world to put new regulations in place allowing bankrupt banks to spend customer's money bailing themselves in. When people hear what is happening in Greece they might start putting money into Bitcoin in case the banks ever go bankrupt in their countries.

It depends on where you are. If you are in USA, UK or Germany, you know, at the end of the day, your country will take care of you. But, if you are in North Korea, Ukraine or Argentina, you might have to take care of yourself. Learn it from a Venezuelan => https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3buaay/grecian_here_some_thoughts_you_could_give_me_on/cspqz0e

I ponder about this kind of situation, as I am living in an economically fragile country (Iran). Our country's politics has taken it far in the sanctions road and international money transfer is a nightmare. Bitcoin seems the solution, but there are some problems in that field as well.

If Bitcoin wants to go mainstream in a nation, the buying side is too powerful compared to the selling side. Everybody buys Bitcoin as a store of value and nobody sells. The country MUST have a mining operation running to facilitate IRR <-> BTC conversions. If the country doesn't have Bitcoin generated in IRR (national currency), then the exchange has to be IRR <-> USD <-> BTC which renders the whole thing useless, as USD can be used as a store of value.

Absoultly, I agree with OP. Read through the thread and talked to many people. Most people do not realized how young our current monetary system is (fiat). It has only been used for ~60 years, people assume that has always been there, but that is not true. Fiat is young, and have obvious flaws build in. Since you can create debt (money) out of thin air, then will the combined debt increase over time, ever since fiat was instruduced by Nixon has debt only incressed, the system is bound to colapse. Most people consider this to "impossible", but in fact it cannot be avoided. Greece today, rest of the world soon.

Well it's a very strong image indeed. If things like this does not open the eyes of the rest of the world, what will? It's always the poor and old people who suffer the most when things like this happens.

The people with, uhmm how can I put it... Drug or alcohol problems will have a hard time too... How much of the 60 Euro per day goes towards alcohol and how much for food?

It looked like this woke up the people in Europe, because the statistics show a significant increase in Bitcoin purchase in Europe.

I just hope these people do not get scammed and hacked, when they try to use it for the first time.  >:( >:( >:(

My heart wrenches at the picture of the elderly losing hope and feeling despondent. At this moment I strongly feel that people across the globe should at least take this up as a humanitarian cause and help in some way or the other. Powerful countries should get together and unitedly help them steady their economy. Perhaps also help them get access to Bitcoin too.

I agree it is problemetic to buy bitcoin for countries where moving money is restricted. But, I believe, they can earn bitcoin. Where money movement is restricted, earning USD might be a problem over there as well. But, by selling services online, one can easily procure bitcoin. In fact, direct exchange of bitcoin against product & services is good for bitcoin economy itself.

"Today it is Greece. Tomorrow it can be you."

and in the past...

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/06/10/82838978-dc733348a02b83705a653e2881bd6bf79c9a81b8.jpg

Don't you think there is a moral hazard involved?
If people help Greece now, other countries could be tempted to binge on debt, because there is no downside. In case of a crisis like this, they might think people will bail them out.

Economics is not simple mathematics. If you give them or any debt ridden nation a lot of money, the problem will prevail. It is about increasing production, increasing import-export and a lot other things. International monetory system is a very complicated subject.

All those old people are of course not going to do it themselves, they would rely on younger people in their families (sons or whatnot) that would help them to do it. The problem is most of young people are totally clueless about economics and dont know what Bitcoin is and why its important. As always, few will make it before it goes mainstream.

So i managed to talk to a friend that has family in Greece and he's grandfather had a heat stroke just waiting in line from 5am to 3pm just to receive a number in order to get in the social pension office the next day. crazy stuff!

As a Turkish citizen I've lived the economical crysis from mid 90's to mid 2000's. There was no Bitcoin back then.
After some development in country we kinda changed our money. We dropped 6 zeros from Turkish lira in 2005.

Bitcoin adoption in Greece is not a necessity. If someone says so; don't believe it.

Do you people believe that bitcoin can replace FIAT currencies entirely in a country like Greece? Or do you see it as an alternative with possibilities of parallel use? I'm really curious to see what people rooting for bitcoin use in Greece actually believe in.

I think Bitcoin can be part of a solution, but not the whole solution.

The most important thing is that the real economy finds ways to stabilize itself without depending on the traditional financial sectors.

There is a whole "kit" of things that you can do in this case. In Argentina, we had a similar situation in 2001. A barter circle system with an alternative currency, the "crédito" got momentum then and was a great ressource for people that lost their jobs or were otherwise in difficult situations. They were enabled to not suffer hunger participating in these circles.

Now we have a more secure, electronic system - cryptocurrencies - that can fill this niche in Greece.

I too believe that using cryptocurrencies as an alternative is more realistic. I was weirded out by some people in /r/bitcoin (and here too but not as much) that believed bitcoin could realistically replace FIAT in its entirety in Greece. I've used BTC since early 2013 and despite the fact that I believe in it's potential I still think that, for a plethora of reasons, bitcoin isn't a good replacement for FIAT and it can't replace the use of cash in an economy entirely. Furthermore, there's still work to be done to make cryptocurrencies ready for adoption. Greek pensioners are even having trouble with the simplistic online payment system for taxes and state payments.

Aside of that, there were some false reports about Greeks rushing to buy bitcoin too, I don't know what level of fact checking those articles went though but since I'm Greek I know for a fact that this wasn't and still isn't true. It's true that the interest on it rose during the recent events but It's still not as significant as major news websites reported.

Good to read an opinion from a local!

Yes, there is much to do still ... usability and, above all, stability (lower volatility) are major issues. I am investigating ways to improve stability in cryptocurrencies, but it is not a trivial thing.

There are many things that can help improve stability: above all, a stable, long-term oriented reward system (where I see systems like Proof of Stake and Proof of Burn with an advantage over Bitcoin's PoW), and a stabie, not pump-and-dump-oriented community which really uses the currency, not only for trading.

Source (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYhEDxFwFRU#t=19m23s)

this is why they say don't put all your eggs in one basket, especially if your country is financially unstable!

i don't believe that it is bitcoin to the rescue for the Greeks and it can replace their fiat as many are saying, because simply bitcoin is not ready yet for that level of commitment.

OP why are you posting this in here, it doesn't really help the average greek, i mean here we all know about bitcoin already. You need to post this stuff where people aren't aware such innovation exists yet. People like those in the picture aren't really checking out this forum lol.

There is no eggs in the basket before that they can pull it as one, Greece into the crisis since the year 2009 and it's pegged down so worse that is unimaginable. I agree with your point that Bitcoin cannot be saviour for the Greece, they need to find out some other solutions.

Bitcoin will be the alternative system to the convential fiat systems. People is too dumb to embrace Bitcoin in 2015 or any time soon. We'll need at least 20 years until a country goes full crypto, and by then people owning BTC since the begining will all be millionaires.

I hear that in greece there were "people" with 100+ year that were receiving pension money.
It can be bitcoin after greece lol.
There will be always that someone will win and someother lose

This was not a shock...this was expected. I'm sure many people knew Greece would default. It's not something that happens so quickly like "tomorrow" as you suggest. The less ignorant people prepared for what was to come and managed to secure their finances (partially).

Wow this really shocked me . Hope it can be in my country tooooooooooo

Putting your money in bank is also risky when bank limits withdrawal when the health of the bank or country is in trouble.
At least bitcoin is free and does not have any government intervention for now.

has time goes by and more people learn about security and how to keep your bitcoin save is most likely that bitcoin would become their savings account and bank just a tool in order to make a payment to a sector of the economy that has yet to upgrade to the bitcoin ecosystem.

that picture is indeed heart breaking. it makes you wonder if this situation can happen to you too especially if you are living in a developing country.

but i can not agree that bitcoin is the solution, and that it can solve Greek's problems.

The worst part hasn't happened yet. Now greece is all happy and dandy because the NO won. They think they are getting their sovereignty back, when anyone informed knows that haircuts will be coming, and once haircuts will be coming and you still cannot get your money out of the bank, now that is a whole new level of frustration. Having bought BTC at 1K will be nothing compared to that.

^^ This

It is not enough to save money in the bank, we now see all the risks, even if you are in a "developed country".  10 years ago, who would have thought that people could get "bailed-in"?  The term, AFAIK, had not even been invented...

Nor is BTC enough by itself to be properly diversified.  It is only smart to own some gold, keep some cash at home and own BTC.

And to pay attention to the news, and being prepared to act.

It is interesting how everyone know commenting that it is great chance for Greece to incorporate bitcoin. It won't happen on the higher level for sure. Only small groups of people own bitcoin in Greece, and that poster are not gonna change much. Bitcoin is not magic salvation for their economic crisis it could only help some people slightly. When crisis of this caliber is in motion people are not gonna turn over to another volatile currency.

They will if they only have worse alternatives than bitcoin available, which is where things are headed. Desperation will make people try different things, things they would not normally consider. (Reminds me of a letter in my genealogy files to my great-grandmother from her brother in Germany in the 1930's, apologizing and sheepishly defending their embrace of Naziism because the "old ways had failed" and a new generation had to be allowed to try something new. But I digress... I hope.)

That volatility can be a blessing as well as a curse, after all - Cypriots who got out early may have ridden the BTC spike in early 2013 to many times what they invested as they exited their fiat savings.

How high can you guys see BTC going, not checked the price for a few days and seen a £26 increase !!!

I was just about to sell 3 BTC at £179.  :o

Not unless they own at least 1.000.000 of bitcoins.

so cnn money calls the greece drama a little side show to what could be happening in china with all the stock margin buy and prices going down more then 30% could chine be the next economy on trouble?

CHECK IT OUT http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/06/investing/stocks-market-china-greece/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

http://f38.vcp.digitalaccess.ru/contents/4/f/ee6345e4f06aea7d760cabb36c7b8d.jpg
"First we take Athens, then we take Berlin."

It's really people's fault that they haven't learn what diversifiying means at this point in time after so many incidents like these and the importance of never having all of your wealth in the bank. Our culture never learns until you've already fucked up.

Yeah, sounds like the people of Greece aren't worried about the unknown or taking the riskier of two paths. It's crazy but kind of admirable to just go for it like that, to take on their own problems by themself.

Here's an article about it: http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/06/news/economy/greece-no-vote-explanations/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

I guess the vote result was the better of two evils. You cannot accept any more loans from the EU or other country, because it will only dig the hole deeper.

They need significant internal financial reform :

1. Increased Tax
2. Government Salaries & Pension cuts. {Eg.. reduction of 30% or more for a period of 5 years, until the economy healed}
3. Assistance to help entrepeneurs to create jobs. {Subsidizing innovation}
4. Strong anti-corruption strategies
5. Creation of a Bitcoin friendly environment {Also informal job creation}
6. Very strict lending practices for high risk loans.
7. Negotiations with the EU to write off a percentage of the debt. {Some countries have done this with 3rd World country debt}

These are just some of the things, they can do to resolve this situation.  

Gosh! Greek defaulted IMF, Is Greece going to stay in EURO or out of EURO?
But, I found a correlation between Drachma to Bitcoin at http://airkayu.com/content/greeks-are-rushing-bitcoin

i do not agree on this, especially when they have already locked to only 60 euro per day the money of their citizens

i find that rising taxes is not a good strategy ever to resolve big debts, it was proven numerous times

Raising taxes is the most bullshit thing you can ever do.

Raising taxes only shrinks the tax base, thus they will have less government budget eventually.

Not to mention the fact that its highly immoral to send armed thugs to your store extorting you for money :)

The problem with Greece is not, that the taxes are too low. The Problem is that paying taxes was hardly enforced in a long time.
Just a little reminder, that Greeks are not just the victims of this crises, but fucked up pretty hard them self and that also counts for the poor people, who also didn't pay taxes, because culture.

Thats why they should lower taxes even lower. If they have medium taxes which are not enforced, then why cant you have low taxes that are enforcet?

You can easily fire some tax collectors, and save some budget money anyway.

But just look at the morality of the entire system, all sorts of inspectors coming to your small store to "check" you is exactly like the maffia.

China will have a bigger more impact on the world economy has thier stock market is now down 25% and some stock has complete stop trading

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/07/investing/china-stock-market-companies-stop-trading/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

It will be Italy most likely

Plus all the debt that has build up to save 'Greece' as a country only saved the banks and multinationals to get a free pass to leave greece and let it sink even further, none of the IMF loans has gotten to the greek people. All of it went to the german and french banks that have played a good one on greece and its population, winning big and walking away with a big profit. You cannot blame the people, the tax evasion was a status quo that was working ok until the eu and banks pushed them to reform and then the whole system started to shift and fall apart.

Sorry, but what a BS. Nothing worked in Greece, before and after they joined the EU. They had problems long before they joined the EU, they were just hiding them better. Seriously, they don't have any economy besides some tourism. How is that supposed to work?
And no, I don't want to defend the Banks, but saying you can't blame the Greek people at all, is just a big pile of bullshit.

I think the people of Greece would really take this chance and jump to bitcoin. Banks are down, PayPal is down, not many options are left for them. More and more people in Greeks in the past couple of months have already began using bitcoin. Hope this continues, it will help the value of bitcoin and us.  ;)

but sadly they have many obstacles on their way to buying bitcoin. like the limits they have to access cash, the small amount daily that they can withdraw is so low for any major investment in bitcoin. then there is like 1 atm to buy bitcoin.

What is the BS? They have so much more than just the tourism, they have export. It is not a big economy, it is a small part of the whole EU, they did not bring much, they did not need much, they had enough to go arround in Greece itself, but when up with the big boys and their bubble economies it all tumbled down, there is no BS in that.

People need to stop posting this guys photo like this.

1.) I see a distraught man...because, well...that's what the camera man is telling me to see.

2.) Is he distraught because of the economic situation? Because he waited in line for the ATM all morning and was next when it ran out of money? Because his tummy hurts?

The point is, nobody has any idea why this guy is sitting on the ground like an upset child. In New York City I see this shit every day...and there's no bank crisis here...yet.

Even more so than this...how about having some fucking DECENCY people? Why in the FUCK would anyone want to take a photo of someone elses misery and continually post it on the internet for everyone to see? Whatever the reason for the upset?

I'll tell you why...to prove your "point". To cause shock and awe. To fill an agenda or promote an idea.

I have an idea OP: Get some fucking class.

This is great for bitcoin, it's saving the unbanked like Greece, everyone in Greece should be jumping for bitcoin since their banks are down. I hope this can happen in all the developing countries in the world not just Greece.

It's a bit overrated how Bitcoin can save Greece.
They don't have acess to their money, how they can even buy Bitcoin?

My biggest bets are Spain, Italy, Portugal.. and there are tons of poor European countries like Romania that I have no idea how they are doing OK and not struggling as well.

Hello people. i read recently that bitcoin is being trend in Greece and it's true. our banks are closed and we can only withdraw 60eur/day so its impossible to spend these 60 to buy bitcoins. i have all my savings in banks. e-banking and mobile banking works and we can send money only within Greece. So is there any way to buy bitcoins or we are trapped. I do not want to see all my savings being reduced by 30% or more. i was working all my life for that. I really do want to start with bit coins i started getting educated about it but how can i start? i hope it's not too late.

If you can't get your money out of the banks then how can you buy anything, let alone Bitcoin?


Sorry but you should of seen this coming years ago. I won't preach now, it's too late however. If you are legit I suggest you get as much money as you can out of the banking system and buy precious metals which no one in Europe can stop you from doing. One benefit of being part of EU is you can move over borders still. That's all you can do, get your money and buy gold or something with intrinsic value like collectables, antiques, classic cars etc. even property in the long term will be safe in years and decades to come. If you hold gold now you could actually have some great opportunities for buying property etc later.

Like I said, no one can help you get your money out of banks, I would research Cyprus to see what might happen.

thanks for the answer. i already have gold coins but can't do anything with them right now. i just wanted to move into bitcoin because i think if the euro collapses BTC will go very high

your only way to exit from this, would be to buy things with your credit card there in greece, and then sell those thing for bitcoin abroad

i'm assuming that your credit/debit card cannot work outside of greece right?

my cards cannot work outside greece that's right, i can't use paypal or even paysafecard...That's a good idea i could buy some things here and sell them for bitcoin

I dont know if you are connected with travel/tourism. But, AFAIK, that is the biggest industry in Greece. So, those who are connected, may want to accept bitcoin instead of other currency. This way, bitcoin liquidity will steadily rise inside Greece and it will be accessible to more people who can not move their money out.

Tomorrow it's the rest of the PIIGS countries. Then the rest of the world, pretty much.

I have no idea, where you get your information from.
When Greece joined the Eurozone, they cooked their books. I thought that is common knowledge. Here some random news article about that:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-kingdom/eu-knew-greece-cooked-its-books-when-it-joined-eurozone-243927.html

They did not have a healthy economy. I have no idea, why you are denying that.

So who is to blame? I did not say their economy was top notch, it was as bad as my personal finance, but I am doing fine, so did Greece. The fact they had to do some fiddling with their bookkeeping to statisfy the EU commission and the banks has never been a secret, everybody knew at the time and everybody knew how bad it really was, nobody cared and accepted it, nobody checked the books. The banks have made big profits out of it and got away with a big bonus paid by the EU tax payers.

They cooked their books and everybody stood by and let it happen, laughed when they shaked hands on joining in with the big sharks, now they are shred to pieces and if not enough they get pissed all over by the same sharks and a big propaganda machine is at work to blame the greek people, turning away the blame from the real culprits which are the big banks and companies that have profited from the fall and bankrupcy of a whole country.

Everybody involved is to blame, not just the banks and that also include the people, who were just happily evading taxes, not caring, what will happen in the near future. Saying, it is not my fault, banks/politicians are bad and than acting to make it worse, because I can't do anything about it anyways, doesn't release me from any responsibility.
What makes me angry the most, is that the ones, who it will/has hit the hardest(the younger generation) are not the same as the ones(the older generation) who benefited for a short time from driving it down the cliff.
And that's also, why I am saying, that they were not doing fine, before joining the EU, they were just postponing their problems(like most countries do). It would have hit the younger generation, also without the EU, maybe not that hard, but it would have hurt.

I have heard that people aren't allowed to get to their safety deposit boxes. 

The US is going down the same path.  Preparing us to get ripped off by having the cops rob from people that are carrying "too much cash".  If there is a run on banks in the US, I can imaging the cops pulling people over down the street and asking "son, what do have all this cash for?".

No wonder they not pass legislation all around europe ,that starts to ban cash, you can only pay now with credit/debit cards.

So all pensions, salaries, subsidies, or any other form of income will go to your bank not your hand.

And the banks will start imposing -1% interest rates, so say goodbye to your money.

I'm thinking that this shouldn't be a discussion of who we are going to blame for Greece. As I've recently stated in a thread, a lot of countries went bankrupt in the last 50-60 years (making an average more than 1 country per year). I guess we could be looking for people on a individual basis, but everyone is to blame. People who elect, people who rule, people who ignore, who evade taxes and such.
However, this is just the result of the Banking Oligarchy and their control. This is why we need Bitcoin, and I still do not understand how people do not recognize the benefit of Bitcoin.

I have read somewhere that the cut might be 30 percent for everyone who has over 8,000 euros. This is a lot of hard earned money that is going to vanish. Without Bitcoin you don't really control your assets. The Banking Oligarchy does.

Update:
Stop twisting my words. Your statement is not even related to mine. I never said such a thing.

That's just the kind of simple minded statement I really hate. The world doesn't become a happy place, just because people use Bitcoin.
In this case: Greece doesn't get a working economy, just because they use Bitcoin.

Just think - you are living in Greece in small island, there are exactly 50 people and two shops in this island. How can you spend your BTC there ? Even post is delivered may be two times a week  :D

People who have borrowed tend to benefit.
The government implicitly rips off people who save and rewards those in debt, through low interest rates.
It is not sufficient that they levy taxes on common people.

If any currency is borrowed, defaulted and the defaulter keeps on getting bail out, it only gives rise to infaltion of that currency...

The governments that Greece has had in the past, both left and right, have been corrupt and have been hiding each others bad-for-press figures, they are the ones that ruined the country, and now Europe wants the current government and the people which have done nothing wrong to pay for it. Yes, you vote to politicians, but you never know they are corrupt or not, you just hope for the best.

What happens if the Greek State dissolves...  There is no one from which to collect any of this debt.
Similar to the USSR breakup, only in this case, what remains would be Greek City-States, like it used to be so long ago.

In this result, the ECB loses their "investment", and perhaps at least one of the City-States will have no central banker?

The EU just told Greece Give us €50 Billion of real assets, Islands, monuments, etc. And we will give Euros...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/athens-and-eurozone-agree-bailout-deal-for-greece

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 :-[

The US government has even more debt (as do many countries).  Does this mean that the US population is more corrupt than Greece?

Interesting, as someone actually told me like a week or two earlier that Eurozone is going to take some islands and whatnot. This could have been expected to some degree.
This is actually what their plan is all along. How could the Greeks agree to something like this?

the point of bitcoin, is that you don't need an autorithy that will manage it, i mean it's not citizens fault if greece is what it is right now, and if they choose bitcoin, they will basically get rid of their guilty entity which is their government.

when you have a central autorithy if they screw something everyone will suffer with bitcoin, each person is responsible for itself

I would love to see this communist paradise where the people has controll of the economy and is contributing to a common good. Greek has a lot of old style communists so the basis are there...

As we know from history all the other communist experiments has been a paradise for the people. All the communist states are run by the people and nowhere has an elite group taken the power for themself...

OMG are you that naive or you are troll?

All communists countries were ruled by an elite 10-20 people on the top of the party. They were all tyranical dictatorships where dissidents were murdered and sent to forced labour camps.

If that is your "paradise" then go get it, i dont want to be part of it.

And you are to stupid to see the irony? All the communist movements sounded like those on this forum who think everything will be so nice in the future of bitcoin where noone pays tax and everything is run by donations. History shows something completely different.

I am old enough to remember communist movements and have heard all the arguments about banks and capitalism before.

Communism is beautiful in theory. But unfortunatly do not work in pracsis due to the nature of humans. Humans are selfish, you need to be unselfish for communism to work, even though you work harder and better than the person next to you, you have to accept that you get the same, even accept that he get more. I would love a world where there was no money, no one was rich no one was poor, people just strive to educate them self and contribute. But it will not happen because of the nature of the human genome.

Well then look again, being old doesnt mean you get to sit on tv and watch soap operas all day.

Sure you can have a vacation and enjoy your golden years, but that is only reserved for those who worked hard and earned much money.

I am a true 100% capitalist and i dont like banks, i think you dont know what real capitalism means, better read up on it more.


Even in theory its horrible. How can you seriously imagine a world where everyone is the same , equal.

It would be the most boring world ever and everyone would commit suicide, and the whole race would dissapear.

Diversity is what gives excitement in life.

That sounds exactly like the current system and not like communism.
In communism people are just the same, when it comes to how much they get paid. Being free from the fear of not earning enough money to survive, people could be just more creative about the work they employ, that would even lead to more diversity (in theory).
I also don't think, communism(the real one) would work well, but it's still terrible what people think, communism is about.

Not much siting around watching soap since i dont have a television. I got a bunch of computers so i dont need television....


As a capitalist you should be aware that the banking system is the main driving force of capitalism. If i have an idea for a busyness i need money to start it. There the banks come in and help me out so i can get it going.

Inflasion rate is also a capitalism tool. To low and the investment rate slows down. To high and investments get to risky. Every country in the world strives to get inflasion to the right level.

I do think there are others who should read up on capitalism. You could ask those who are manipulating bitcoin price. They seem to know their stuff.

I agree with you.
People are not the same and will never be the same.
There will always be those who are more capable and those who are less capable.
Communism failed because it gave everyone equally, regardless of the effort and results of the work, so people lost motivation to work hard and produce something new.
Money will always be required but also is important that welfare state protects the weakest and most vulnerable in society.

I think China, the communist nation, is one of the biggest driving force behind bitcoin price manipulation.

Fear of not earning enough money? That is exactly because of socialism.

Its very simple let me explain in 1 minute:



1)Government regulates economy / overtaxes it (central planning communist doctrine) to pay for welfare and
subsidy
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
2)There are not many companies only the crony friends of politicians get permits and tax cuts (who then donate to campaigns and corrupt politicians)
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
3)Less jobs are being created because small family businesses get persecuted and shut down by government to eradicate the competition for their megacorporation friends
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
4)Workers are valued less and treated like slaves (since alot of supply of workers, but less demand , supply & demand relationship since less)
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
5)Your salary sucks and you get paid minimal wage because too much unemployment (and even the employed get paid less because the value of the worker is less when there is alot of unemployed people and few employers)
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
6)You start crying to me on this forum about too little government regulation & welfare, and why the government doesn't protect workers from "evil" capitalists (when it was them that fucked it all up)
                                                            |                                                                                                                    
                                                            v
7)Here we go again..it repeats.. and everytime it gets worse


So fuck communism/socialism/corporative fascism, we need libertarianism to remove the state from the economy, and then we might have a chance to become financially independent :)

Acutally its not the banking system, its the stock market, we could be perfectly fine without a banking system.

Banks are a bronze age institution when people had physical wealth that needed to be protected, with bitcoin we dont even need the banking system at all.

Inflation is not capitalism, its a central bank invention, the biggest scam of all financial history -> Central banks are a communist insitution (central planning)

You obviously talking about keynesian economics which is a communist doctrine, try reading into austrian school of economics, you would be englightened very fast:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School