Bitcoin Forum

Hello, I really enjoy playing poker and after seeing so many rooms "ban" players from some countries etc I decided to try btc poker, the problem is that there aren't many players out there yet. I'm playing on betcoing.ag for now, and it's good compared to the others I tried, but I still can't play in a lot of tables at the same time, and to do that I have to enter in tables with different blinds which can "ruin" a session, and even like that, depending on the time of the day, sometimes I can't play even at 3 tables on the same time.

So my question is:

Why don't btc poker rooms create a poker network like Ipoker?

They would still have their clients and separate accounts etc, but players would all play on the same network. That would really help the btc poker community and it would be good for casinos to, because more players would probably make the change, like I'm trying to do.

I mean if that works for big poker rooms, why can't work for btc poker? I really don't get it.

Most likely they do not want to deal with bitcoin or a skin would have been made already. Must be protecting what they have from all being taken out in a sweep the rug movement.

Things keep going this rate poker online will die a slow death.

I'm sorry what are you saying?
I was not suggesting that Ipoker would "adopt" btc poker rooms. I don't even think that works that way. I was saying that betcoing.ag, swc, luckyflop, etc etc, and all those small btc poker rooms could create a common poker network like Ipoker, so all the few players they have would then become a "decent" number of players, and we would all win with that.

How would all the different software be able to connect to 1 network?  Is there a way that 2 different clients can connect to 1 network?

I see,thought you meant join the Ipoker network.

Clients would have to be altered. Every room in Ipoker has the same client, although they have different skins so the houses are well identified.
It's still different rooms on the same network, so they only had to unite to create the network and the new client.

it would be cool if it were a decentralized network to play poker without restrictions

This looks like a good idea but there may be a few problems. Wouldn't this need each site to trust the network maintaining the games? That would have to be very well verified to make sure no scams go on. And if a flaw in the software is found it will affect everyone connected. Then, many new gambling sites turn out to be scams and being associated with one could kill the deal. And also some larger sites may not want to do this to limit how many players they would lose to smaller sites. Smaller sites may not want to do this to avoid having to rewrite code that they just bought from someone else.

Definitely a good idea but who would be the company managing all the accounts and how would the rake distribution happen ?

Don't know how Ipoker does it but maybe distribute the rake based on which sites the players in that table are coming from. For example if half are coming from one site, that site receives half the rake, etc. Or if each site contributed differently to starting or maintaining the shared network, divide it with that in mind.

Yeah probably that would work. Still seems like a really hard thing to implement and this kind of thing would only work for Cash games. Most of the tournaments have different structures on different sites. They would not be able to accomodate all sites for that.

I don't know how Ipoker does it, but I can't really see a problem here for anyone. I think the Ipoker network was probably created to solve exactly the problem of a lot of poker houses not having enough players to compete with bit networks like pokerstars, fultilt, etc. I mean btc poker is nothing compare to any of those networks, so the "greedy" way of thinking will do nothing for them. None of the btc poker rooms is a big room, they are all small and can't really compete with Ipoker, pokerstars etc, because of that, so they all have to win if they keep they accounts separate, and just unite their poker networks.

There shouldn't be a trust issue because they will all have something to win because they would just become more attractive to poker players.

I have no idea how the rake works etc in Ipoker, but I'm sure they could just copy the model. I don't see any room complaining about being in the poker network, so I'm sure it works.

The problem is most active players are active right across the sites and I would suspect the player field would actually dwindle at first if such a idea was to proceed.

Need to make in roads at 2p2 and due to all the Seals scandals its a hard slog trying to get people to try it out.

Besides this being the early days of bitcoin poker,they all want to eat the competition than work with it.

Everyone want's to eat the competition, the problem is that in poker they are all small.
And I'm not saying all the sites should join, but the big ones that are trusted for now could think about it, so they would start becoming a real alternative to the other poker rooms.

Cash tables and tournaments are pretty empty. I mean in the other rooms I can observe tables and see where I want to play, and the limit for the amount of tables I can play at the same time is based on how many action I can take lol. In btc poker rooms I am happy If I see players at the table.

They can't really be serious and think they want to eat the competition, they must think if they really want to become an alternative to poker.

Only way to grow bitcoin is to have the community back some good players that can endorse bitcoin at every camera interview and wear swag promoting it.

It is not just Countries blocking players but the way poker looks to the average person these days.
Lot of people have a reference for a kid that did well,moved to vegas and is now blowing donkey dick or addicted to crack.
Add in the idiots that make poker unfun to play by berating players any time they do something different or dumb.
Poker lacks faces as well to push the product,we had Dwan and Isldur and now both are awol.
Factor in cheating scandals and bitcoin getting the poker ban treatment and it explains the scene.

The idea that these sites want to hold hands is so off the chart mad I will just let some one else tackle it.

I don't know, maybe poker needs some physical face to face to add more adrenaline to the game itself.

This wouldn't work at all, most sites won't agree to be a part of this and it will fail, the poker cut of the house isn't that much in the first place and they wouldn't want it to be distributed. The future of BTC Poker is bright but all the players who are interested in playing Poker and not just the freerolls will probably choose 1-2 sites which gets more crowd and they will stick to them.

I think that the crypto community just isn't that big yet.  But eventually it will grow, and it may become more popular for gambling online.  I certainly think that it has many advantages to fiat. 

So tell your friends about cyrpto.  Wear a bumper sticker, etc :).

yeah exactly , I think this is the main problem cause there is a small percentage of people who already know and trust crypto currencies and not all of them like to play poker or to gamble
if we can advertise bitcoin as possible I'm sure players will turn to BTC , I mean everyone would like to have quick depos and withdrawals
and then we may start a big site like pokerstars only for btc

that's mean 2 site can connect to 1 network, what bitcoin poker site offer service like that

Like I said I don't know how it works on Ipoker but it makes no sense to say that houses would not like it etc. Every house knows the rake a player has generated, for promotions etc, so every room would get the amount of rake they deserve.

I mean I did not invent a new system, it's something solid that works for Million Dollar Companies (betfair, titanpoker, bet365, etc etc 27 poker rooms rin total, you can check their site http://www.ipoker.com/html/page/cardrooms).
Even their logo is Ipoker - always a full house.

It works well for these big companies and it does not work for btc poker? Please that is just poor thinking.

And the problem for btc poker is not that it isn't well known. I mean check this forum, on many poker threads people will say try this room or that one, but there aren't many players so if you are serious about poker stay on the fiat rooms.

it will work for sure , right now Betcoin is a part of the WPN and each site of the network is taking their part from the fees
for sure this can be achieved , but as I said we need to unite our sites and we need to introduce more people to bitcoin

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

Its not poor thinking to be a critic of the idea you present,its poor thinking when the reasoning you present does not make things clear.

You want to create a cartel that would help grow the field and I think there are better ways then lumping them all together.

The idea that lumping 4 sites together will increase the player field is crazy. Overlap of players site to site,100% rake back deals would be squashed and incentive to promote ones own site would fall off.
What would stop me from offering a opposing site with rakeback and dropping the groups player field? Nothing.

Its really a great idea till you nit pick the edges and realize no companies come together unless it benefits them. Only reason this makes sense is if they push the rake up all around to balance out the other issues that come along with it.


End of the day poker is about rake and some one is going to have to lose for another to gain. Just do not see that happening.

That is not really the problem. Neteller already accepts btc, so you can deposit anywhere with btc. And there are already many poker rooms that accept btc deposits, some of them in the Ipoker network. They don't have tables, or let you have a balance in btc, but I don't think they will do it (actually if they do that would be for btc, but it would be the end for these small rooms lol). They would do it if they thought they were losing some clients to btc poker rooms, but they wont lose clients because you cant play poker for real in btc poker rooms because of the number of players.

So yes we can talk to people and try to make them experience btc poker rooms, but we can't get them to stay without the number of players they need to play the way they like. And that can only be achieved if the btc rooms unite in the same network (that was the main reason why Ipoker was created, because that was the only way to get players from pokerstars etc. It's really just a matter of copying a success story lol).

This is spot on! Pokerstars traffic is crazy and a lot of them have decent money backing them, once we get a percentage of them get interested in BTC then most of these BTC poker sites will get more traffic than now as the sharks will be on the hunt. Also would be a very good day for BTC.

Hmm this is not my idea lol, this is done in Million Dollar companies and it works. And it was done for the same reasons, so that small sites could compete with the big ones.

Like I said I'm not inventing the wheel lol, it's not my idea, it's just a success model that already exists. The thing is, I don't think the sites want to offer a real alternative to poker rooms. They just want to offer another feature to their casinos. So yes, with that way of thinking, meaning not wanting to really become an alternative to poker, they just want to crush the competition and the idea of "uniting" (because it's not really uniting, they all have different players with different accounts etc, they just let the players play across rooms. Don't know if you really know how Ipoker works. Even their promotions and rake and wtv can be different, so there is competition between rooms. They just let players play together and not just vs players in their one room).

Million dollar companies come together because they have something to offer one another. The only thing you offer in this idea is it will grow the poker base and thats a big maybe to throw all their ducks in one basket.

Ipoker is not a good example of how they come together. I have already stated they all work under one umbrella. They are called skins for a reason,maybe enlighten me as to how I am wrong about them instead of insinuating I am wrong. Have stated these are not sites coming together but sites joining up to their set up.
You could argue Pokerstars and Fulltilt but that was more because Pokerstars had the money and Fulltilt ran its self into the ground. Otherwise you still lack a example. If Ipoker is the example,explain how I am wrong.

This post is "The Future of BTC Poker,so I would think you presented a idea at the start.

Been trying to find a thread that explains how the ipoker skins work and how they all profit but to no avail so far to help settle that aspect.

But I did find a interesting bitcoin thread from 2012 about asking a skin to use bitcoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61892.0

Was interesting bit off on a tangent but some what relates.

Never like ipoker skins. Titan was slow and bot infested and the cheating was way to obvious. Add on the disconnects when invested in a pot. Again off the topic,my bad.
Just like talking poker.

Found something about the profit sharing on ipoker:


Network Revenue Sharing Agreement

The Source Based Rake concept is viewed by iPoker as a revenue sharing agreement of sorts among the skins on the network. The sharing comes into play "on rake and fees generated from money that has been deposited and wagered by players" on various skins, and subsequently "turned into revenue by another player" regardless of the skin to which that player belongs.

SBR, which will replace the current Weighted-Contributed Rake model, functions by requiring the creation of a "virtual balance" (VB) for each player in conjunction with an actual balance. Money that is "wagered for the first time" is tagged and time-stamped to the wagering player. The SBR system uses existing money of a player's virtual balance that is used in a cash game pot or a Sit N' Go buy-in.

A player is tagged with new money only if his or her "virtual balance is lower than the bet or Sit N' Go buy-in." Upon the collection of rake and fees, players who used money to enter the Sit N' Go or build a ring game pot will be assigned a value that is proportional to the wagered money. SBR always takes other players' oldest money first from the virtual balance before their own money is used.

All of the money tagged to players will not mean revenue for the skins of those players. It is highly likely that a portion of the virtual balances of players will not be turned into rake, thereby eliminating revenue for the skin.



link:

https://www.pokertube.com/poker-news/poker-business-industry/ipoker-announces-implementation-of-source-based-rake-on-jan-1-2015

I never said poker rooms on Ipoker are together, actually I always say that they are not, and that they still compete with each other. They have different promotions and try to attract players for themselves the way they can. Players are independent and are not shared by the rooms.

I actually thought you were saying they were together,  because you were always saying that rooms want to beat the competition etc, and that's where I thought you were wrong. I'm perfectly fine with rooms trying to beat the competition, that is normally good for players, and this would not change that. Skins in Ipoker see themselves as competition to one another, being on the same network does not change that at all. They are not "together" they are on the same network period.

I only see one reason for them to want to share a network, and that is to get a good number of players at the tables, and that is something btc poker has in common with them if they want to be an alternative to "standard" poker rooms.

As for the rake like I said I don't know how it works. All I said was that if this works for these rooms, because I don't see them leaving Ipoker, I see them joining, I don't understand why it would be bad for btc poker. I'm pretty sure it would be good for players. Maybe some players are shared by the rooms, I don't argue with that, but I'm sure that they are not 100% present in all the rooms, so yes a common network would mean more players the next time you would enter a room, and more players will attract even more players because maybe next time you sit on a room you won't just leave because there isn't a table for you to play at.

Oh and of course the idea is not mine, if I have any idea was why not copy a success model... (but I can't consider that as my idea since it means copying something)

Second and off topic, I never felt I was being cheated on Titan or any other poker sites. I play poker online and live, it's the same feeling for me as far as trust goes on the live casino or online poker room.

Third and still off topic, why so many posts man, you know you can edit and add info right?

Not saying it can't work or that it isn't a good idea. But you didn't really answer what I said. And you keep comparing large and well established sites with smaller btc poker sites. What is possible for one isn't necessarily possible for the other. Like I said smaller sites may not have the money to rewrite their code. And having more people for their players to play against may be too small a reward for now. As for trust, that's not what I meant. I meant all the sites will need to trust the ones providing the rooms and running the games, not each other. That can create other problems, like scams coming from the providers. Or bugs in the code that could affect everyone, and hit small sites much harder. I guess there are ways to avoid these but that takes time and money. And btc poker sites may not be interested in that commitment for now.

Creating a network like ipoker could be a great idea, someone will have to be the master at the top though who decides who gets in and who doesn't.  It will create a monopoly in BTC poker for the time being.  It would be nice if the other sites like stars just started accepting BTC its probably only due to USA market they dont.

Yes the code would have to be rewritten, or a new service would have to be created (one that would offer the new network and the "skins"). If they afford to have one client and be in one network I see not problem to change that client and network for the new client (skin) and be on the new network (the shared one).

As for trust I can't answer it. I'm not providing a service, and if someone would offer something like this I could not speak for them either. Maybe it should be "easier" since now you could point out one company that was providing the network and the client, but trust can always be broken and scams can always happen anywhere, so I can't answer that.

Why do you say it would create a monopoly? Like I said someone would be providing a common client and a network. But you can't call that a monopoly because anyone can be outside the common network if they don't want to join. Of course the only reason for that would be that you already have a big network and see no point in being in a shared one. You don't see pokerstars in Ipoker and you will never see of course because they are already huge.

As for monopoly in the rooms there would not be such thing as well, because like I said there is a common network and a common client, but the rooms are still independent and have different clients thus, are competing with themselves.

Don't nominate iPoker! it's one of the worst graphic I ever saw, should be  better a qualified one to play on?

lol I really don't care much about the skin and the graphics, as long as it does not hurt my eyes and I can multitable for at least 1h
Anyway the client graphics is really not the issue, it can be better looking than ipoker skins lol

AFAIK Neteller is about to change the BTC deposit fee to 5%, if you deposit through Neteller on Pokerstars you lose another 3%, 8% for depositing? Hell no.

Also the daily limit is like $375 at this moment, some high stakes players need to deposit/withdraw thousands to hundreds of thousands.

About a year ago I read on twoplustwo that Pokerstars was testing stuff to add BTC deposits etc. Maybe with them being sold to a gambling corporation is the reason why they still not accept it.

Pokerstars is the biggest poker site with the biggest volume, biggest tournaments etc. Them accepting BTC would be huge.

Yes it would I don't argue with that, and I hope they do it eventually. Actually if that ever happens it will probably be "the end" of all the small btc poker rooms. They do let us play in btc, but I don't think that would be enough.

Didn't know about that, I have been depositing a lot recently through neteller. Any reason for them to change the fees ? as they actually have no fees on their ends .

It doesnt happen until september when neteller will start raping people i think.  Best thing would be pokerstars to take bitcoin direct then we can cut out neteller.  It does suck though ive used and like neteller in the past.

@nikona Maybe they received another letter from visa or mastercard saying they weren't making enough money out of it. Or it was all just a marketing move for them to get more attention. The change is only effective 10 September though.


That's true. But what I'm saying is all that hits small sites the worst. Why risk those changes and paying more for new clients and network when gains would probably be modest at best? Larger sites may have more reason to take those chances. But try talking directly to them. Think they all have threads in the forum. See what they have to say about it.

I'm having trouble understanding your definition of small sites and larger sites. Would you consider betcoin.ag, swcPoker, nitrogensports, and lucky flop, small or large sites? Like I said I'm new in btc poker that's why I created a thread to get the opinion from the users in the forum, so I could know what were the best sites of btc poker.
You can see the thread here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1128785.0

Those were some of the most voted ones, so I started there. So my question to you is, are this large site or small sites?

perhaps what he mean about small sites and large sites is he look in total player online or tournament prize. every people have personal opinion that mean where side he look.
For example: i don't like play at that website because they have customer service not give me treatment as well. It's worst casino for me

I suspect most of the players playing on betcoin.ag, swc, luckyflop etc.....etc.......are all the same group of players.

In other words, if you see 200 players on betcoin, 200 on swc, and 200 on luckyflop........dont be mistaken thinking there are 600 unique people playing btc poker.  More likely its the same core group of 200 playing with an account on each site.

Yeah no doubt this is true to a certain extent, decent players have to multi table to earn more.  Its probably more a ratio like 50-60% though as each site will bring in its own players.

It's not entirely like that. For now I only have an account on betcoin.ag and swcpoker, and there is a big difference in both houses. I login on both and I can multitable from time to time on betcoin.ag, although in different blinds which is not the same thing (because of bankroll management and variance, like things can be good on all 3 micro stakes, and some bad luck on the mid stake table would ruin the session), and the max I can do if I'm lucky is to be in 4 tables at once, but I can't do that in swcpoker, it has much less players at the table.

I would play on both of them at the same time if I could since I can't get the desirable amount of tables in just one house but even like that I can't quite play the way I like, so I don't think that all the base players are the same.

Making all the sites on 1 network would be so much better for multi tabling.  With all the sites operating slightly different it makes it a challenge to play multiple sites at the same time.  End result is less games, less rake for sites also.

BETCOIN POKER! BEST SOFTWARE AROUND!

BETCOIN.AG
https://www.betcoin.ag/?a=2890

I like to play poker om bitspoker and pokershines.
Very good websites.On pokershibes you can buy with rakeback dogecoins.

I'm sorry but I think you are a bit off topic. Please cast your vote and leave your comments about poker rooms in this thread.
This one was just to see what the community thought about applying a similar model to the Ipoker network on BTC poker rooms.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1128785.0

Thank you.

Let me talk from the other side  :)

We at Enterra, Inc. have been developing BTC poker network for about a year, it's now growing fast enough, and the number of playing increases, especially when skilled teams join us, like BetVIP. What stops new and old poker rooms from joining the network is that they don't physically own software, or server - just their website. We do all the technical maintenance and host the games, so all they can do is changing the room's skin, create or edit poker tables and tournaments, start promotions and market their room.

Poker clients' may look different but they are using all the same server platform to ensure that all games in the network are fair and all the partners are equal.

As the software and server owner we take a rake percentage from each partner room for maintenance, updates, etc.

Betvip is dead. What do you mean by this poker network? because I see only players from betvip that play before and no other site use that software and that many players there dont even want to play ring games. Beside betvip is there still a website that use your software ?

Playing online poker with bitcoin is a good thing, since we don't need to make poker face when we playing with each others. But, it spend longer time and its harder than playing in dice even blackjack. That's why people prefer to play in dice site instead of poker.