Bitcoin Forum

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I hope that this topic is in the right part of the forum, it's technical and relates to a big risk re Bitcoin.

I have been reading that the new Windows 10 OS has a LOT of privacy-destroying "features", including a rudimentary keystroke logger.  I read that that using it will expose passwords and other sensitive info to Microsoft.

But, what I have read was not at technical blogs or websites!  I did see this item at Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3grgxn/att_windows_10_serious_threat_to_bitcoin_privacy/

This of course would make use of online wallets risky, but probably hardware wallets (Trezor and Ledger) less so if they were ALREADY setup before Win 10.


I invite comments re Windows 10 and its likely BAD effects on privacy.  Maybe having a computer tech install Win 7, say, after I get my next computer?

(I am not ready for Linux.........)

keep using windows 7 or 8.
because we are still doubting about the bugs in windows 10.
you won't understand what the bugs will affect your computer if you are not a pro of computing.
using windows 10 will need us to do lots of configuration to prevent privacy failure.
so the bitcoin privacy, even if it is Qt.
i am still using windows 7, at least i am not been affected by windows 10, because that is as easy as windows xp.

avoid using bitcoin wallet if you use windows 10 apparently.

I unfortunately accepted the windows 8.1 -> 10 upgrade last week. I should have known since it was being offered for free.
While going through the update they tried really hard to get the user to accept these things, they called it something that made you think it would make your computer faster.  The only button option was "continue". I had to look around and find the "advanced" option that was in plain text off to the side, in there I was able to disable a lot of the features then.  Still, I'm sure there's plenty of monitoring going on.

well you can always come back to win7 and forget about that stupid sh*t of windows 10.

ty for the link http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3grgxn/att_windows_10_serious_threat_to_bitcoin_privacy/ @OROBTC
i didnt know it and i already read the entire thread, if this is true i will seriously considered to change the OS soon or later, the most version of windows they release the worst they does.

I won't touch windows 10 with a 10'foot pole  ;D

http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10

Privacy within windows 10 can be handled by following these instructions:

https://fix10.isleaked.com/

Here is a script to lock it down as well -
https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/releases

Typical corporate development after Gates left.
There is no longer any vision behind Windows other than enrichment of bosses and corporate greed, same happened with HP.

If you want to manually block MSFT within hosts (C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc)

* Keep in mind that your MSFT app store will stop working thus you will want to first download any MSFT apps you want beforehand.

127.0.0.1 settings-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 settings.data.glbdns2.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 OneSettings-bn2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 dns.msftncsi.com
127.0.0.1 ipv6.msftncsi.com
127.0.0.1 win10.ipv6.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 ipv6.msftncsi.com.edgesuite.net
127.0.0.1 a978.i6g1.akamai.net
127.0.0.1 win10.ipv6.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 en-us.appex-rf.msn.com
127.0.0.1 v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 client.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1 wildcard.appex-rf.msn.com.edgesuite.net
127.0.0.1 v10.vortex-win.data.metron.life.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 wns.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 americas2.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 travel.tile.appex.bing.com
127.0.0.1 any.edge.bing.com
127.0.0.1 fe3.delivery.mp.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 fe3.delivery.dsp.mp.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 ssw.live.com
127.0.0.1 ssw.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 login.live.com
127.0.0.1 login.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 directory.services.live.com
127.0.0.1 directory.services.live.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 bl3302.storage.live.com
127.0.0.1 skyapi.live.net
127.0.0.1 bl3302geo.storage.dkyprod.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 skyapi.skyprod.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 skydrive.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1 register.mesh.com
127.0.0.1 BN1WNS2011508.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1 vortex.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 vortex.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 redir.metaservices.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 choice.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 choice.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 services.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 sqm.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 watson.ppe.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telemetry.appex.bing.net
127.0.0.1 telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
127.0.0.1 settings-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 survey.watson.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 watson.live.com
127.0.0.1 watson.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 corpext.msitadfs.glbdns2.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 compatexchange.cloudapp.net
127.0.0.1 cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
127.0.0.1 a-0001.a-msedge.net
127.0.0.1 statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 sls.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 fe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1 diagnostics.support.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 corp.sts.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 pre.footprintpredict.com
127.0.0.1 i1.services.social.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1 feedback.windows.com
127.0.0.1 feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
127.0.0.1 feedback.search.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1 rad.msn.com
127.0.0.1 preview.msn.com
127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1 ads.msn.com
127.0.0.1 ads1.msads.net
127.0.0.1 ads1.msn.com
127.0.0.1 a.ads1.msn.com
127.0.0.1 a.ads2.msn.com
127.0.0.1 adnexus.net
127.0.0.1 adnxs.com
127.0.0.1 az361816.vo.msecnd.net
127.0.0.1 az512334.vo.msecnd.net

I have been testing Windows 10 for over a month and its really a great OS. I love open source and Linux but if we were to be honest with ourselves nothing(Arguably OSX , but that has a list of unique problems) beats windows polished UI / Driver and software compatibility(If you avoid half their OS releases). Windows 10 is the next "LTS" that will be here to stay and wildly successful.


Partial Agreement. It is often a good idea to wait at least 6 months or till the first SP1 update of any new OS release till many bugs get patched for Windows or OSX. Windows 8 is so horrible it is probably a good idea to immediately upgrade to 10, while windows 7 users should wait it out for 6 months.

I use linux after windows 10 for me is the worst operating system.
I want to use Windows for some software but I can't because more bugs and privacy.
I use linux mint 17.2 for bitcoin/altcoin  wallets and windows 7 only for games/software only available on windows.

you can just turn it all off  :) .  I do .

I don't use UAC i have major issue with using it. to me it's junk . if i can't use edge the i can't use it, i never use the store .

why does the user have to turn these "features" off?

That is a huge red flag.

I started preview Win 10 long before I had an interest in Bitcoin, so I've had nothing but windows 10 since I joined here, i'm that new.. works great.. that said.. as I understand all the worries and so forth.. yes.. windows 10, has apps which stay in constant communications.. regardless if you turn them off.. however that said.. it isn't key strokes, logging, search patterns, information about the user.. it is.. as I follow , handshaking security between OS for OS.. for you, you, are protecting you... this is my pc, it says it is, it continues all it's handshaking life to continue to say it is.. keep other peoples software under control, cause Microsoft has this.. the rest.. I haven't a clue.. however.. look it up.. read about it.. it's been part of Windows 10 apps and written up in normal communications.. it's snot smoke and mirrors like many seem to fill their conspiracy minds with.. other wise, disregard.. have fun, i'm new.. or you could always go back to Win 7, better yet, convert to any Linux.. go Chrome.. nothings really stopping your choice in OS's

So, you do not want to turn them off for your and that Apps safety and use.. you can, turn off any personal, searching results, advertising.. all that, can and does get turned off.. no problem..

On another note.. how many have their phones or pc's setup for GPS / Location for their Music channel.. anyway.. security is an important matter.. steps made by apps to insure your safe use.. are part of the business norm...

I have the motto of not changing into a new windows unless it becomes neccesary and the new windows has enough positive reviews.

I changed from XP to 7 about 2 years ago due to it not updating and 7 being fast and secure. And would not change to 8 or 10 while 7 runs smoothly and software do not require it.

As for the security issues, I do not think that microsoft would do anything outrageus if they are spyping us. Never has done it, and his products have been used for years on end.

I was offered windows 10 for free but luckily I didn't install it.I was thinking to see some feed back and comments then will decide to install it or not.After having read this thread I am not going to install it anymore at least for a period.This offer of free windows was suspicious even from the start.Thanks for sharing very useful information here with us.

If this is true, it is completely outrageous.
Thank you for posting since I'm sure many users, such as myself, had no idea.

Microsoft placing a "keystroke logger" of any sort into their OS as a standard process,
is a clear sign that OS's of the future will just be massive data-mining systems.

Looks like everyone needs to go back to Windows 97, lol.

Awesome thanks for the fixes, I can now go ahead and try 10 on another computer.
I am sure it shite though, after all I just want an o/s that works good, not all the bloat that come with it.

When windows 7 came out, users complained that the network tray icon doesn't blink to show activity, a freeware utility came out to solve that. Windows 8 didn't have a classic start button, freeware solved that too. So I think the privacy problem will also be solved by a freeware utility soon. Wait a couple of months and someone will release one.

There's a fix for that privacy related issues, it has been published before, but things like that should not have happened in the first place.
Personally, i upgraded one of my laptops from 8.1 to 10, and do not think much of the change, it's nothing special by my count.
After seeing the outcome, rest of my computers stay on win7 , that's for sure

cheers

Our concern should not be over computer savvy people such as yourself eventually getting a patch to "block" this.
But for non-savvy future Bitcoin/bitcoin users who are unaware the OS they are using has compromised their wallets upon setup.

Potentially, new users who correctly followed the steps to create a secure "cold wallet",
would be undone just by using the installed OS on their new computer.

The average user does not usually download OS apps to block system processes.

Just because a politician says they will do something does that mean they will?

How is that any different just because a piece of software "asks" you if you want something done that it actually will do it?

Agenda supersedes functionality in today's day in age.

It's better to be cynical (and wrong) than to be robbed and out of pocket while trusting.

I am still on Windows7 i also got accepted their invitation for free upgrade to Windows10 but luckily not moved to this, after these kind of privacy related issue from Windows10 suffering now i am afraid to take step to upgrade my current Windows so i keep using this until it will get resolved.

Windows 8 is a mess.
Windows 10 is a joke.

That why i want a stable version for ... Windows XP (modified and free now)  http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img538/227/OMO4Na.gif

I'am not saying that I do trust Microsoft on my bitcoins but they have no use for it and from what I read on CoinTelegraph couple of hours ago basically transactions under surveillance and nothing such private keys files should be in public for them . here is the quote
Also since July 29 when it came out , a lot of tutorials came out to get your privacy back (most of people used the express and recommended installation and didn't custom install their windows , even those who did have an issue of privacy but much less) .
I will be making a topic on Beginners and Help section tomorow about those things including other stuff to protect your self .

They might not steal your bitcoins or have any use for it, but storing any of your data,
including wallet passwords, address copy/pastes, privatekey copy/pastes, and etc., is useful information.

If Microsoft servers are compromised, either by government or hacker, that information is valuable to them (the intruder).

Windows 8 has come out, I kept using 7. Now Windows 10 is coming out and I will still be using 7. Together with xp, Windows 7 is their best product by far so why change something that is working well.

Also, I don't like all of the changes that have been implemented on 8 and now continued on 10, that's why I erased 8 from a new machine and put a 7 on it.

OMG this thread is LOLZ you trolls had me seriously believing there that people still used Winblows!!  

Bwhahahaaa


I mean, this being the forum of open source currency and all, which only works because open source, and open source only could ever work for this kind of thing...  

, anyway nicely done trollzz

try to work with professionnal device with proprietary DRIVERS on linux ...
and after this, try to read proprietary FILES on free app from linux world ...

I assumed all versions of Windows did this to some extent anyway. If every single Windows 10 user was fully informed of what was going on I wonder how many would actually care. It's becoming a rather strange world.

And I've tried multiple versions of Linux plenty of times. I think it's a load of shit. There. I said it.

The best moment is when i see a MAC in a doctor office ... with a WINDOWS SERVER remote (TSE or VNC like) to run is crapy old software (to read radiographic or old folder client).

??  "Now try reading it - - -  with your handcuffs OFF."     

Uh, ok, sure.  I can do that, lol. 

Actually no. If you think that bugs that are not visible to the users are going to cause any real trouble, then you're mistaken. The OS would be fundamentally flawed then, which it is not.
I've upgraded 1 system to Windows 10 and have disabled everything while installing. I have not experienced a single bug yet aside from Windows Update failing/glitching. However, I do not use Bitcoin on that system and will probably not use it. Windows 10 definitely wants a lot of information, even location which is pretty useless if you're using a PC.

I would like to get exact information on this keystroke logger. It looks like people aren't aware that they could just install Windows 7 inside a VM on a Windows 10 machine and run Bitcoin there. However, a keystroke logger would make this workaround obsolete.

you don't known the censorship of youtube and many many many others website (like ebay) ?
trust me, you don't want to transmit your country location.  ::)

Such websites do not need your OS to transmit that information as you will be located and blocked via ISP (unless you're using VPN/proxy/other).

I've tried Cortana and it is no big deal. It often confuses words as well. Besides, they ask you to turn location on before using Cortana.

If you upgrade to Windows 10 or get a device that already has it installed, your default browser is set to Microsoft Edge by Windows, so we created support materials to show you how to restore or choose Firefox as your default browser in Windows 10.

Firefox Has a New Look for Windows 10 (https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/08/11/firefox-brings-fresh-new-look-to-windows-10-and-makes-add-ons-safer/)

And while you are at it, update Firefox now, go to (customize( ? (about) thats it updates  are immediate.

I have windows 10 and all my wallets in the pc

do I have to worry ?

Couple of months?
A executable script that fixes all concerns came out within days of release.

https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/releases

Since I tested Windows 10 in the beginning of this year I was really anxious to have the final version on my machines, so I jumped on it right after news hit that build 10240 distributed on Microsoft Insider was RTM. There has been an incredible fuzz about this version for quite some time now, for positive and negative things. So far I have it on my main machines and I'm happy. One of the things that made me jump was the fact that I had 3 inactivated legit keys right out of the gate without spending any dime.

Put it on my laptop first, went from Ubuntu 15.04 to Windows 10 10130 then to 10240, no big issues, running smoothly. Had Bitcoin Core, Armory and Electrum there, simply stopped using them on this PC. Did the same on my Desktop (the only difference being starting on Windows 8.1), it had Bitcoin Core and now has Armory and I also tested Electrum. All run nicely.

Windows 10 can keylog at will all my computer's empty online wallets :) I don't store funds over 5 ou 10$ for quite some time.

Normally, as people say, when stuff is free, we are the products... My love to test all the newest OS's surpasses this, so I think it's a fair tradeoff, for now, and all Bitcoin related apps seem to be working fine, so no issues for me in having Windows 10.

The problem with this is the fact that in the past Microsoft has re-enabled the "default settings" on certain patches, thus you would still need to keep an eye on it long term to make sure it doesn't become accidentally undone. ;)

Can we trust this script more than we trust Windows?

You can always multi-boot with another version of Windows or boot up with Tails when you want to use your Bitcoin stuff. This is not a big issue, so just carry on and use Windows 10 for all other non Bitcoin related stuff.
I sometimes wonder how many of the existing versions of Windows has the same backdoors that we just do not know about.

We are all suckers to these proprietary software companies.  ???

Switch to Linux

Stick with Open source software.

Try Linux Mint

you can't do it forever, what if they drop the support in the future, actually it is certain, as it happened with windows xp, you will be running a very unsecure software with your bitcoin client

at the same time, i feel less secure in holding coin on windows 10 because of this anti-privacy crap, even if the system is 100 secure erased before installing everything


this is true only because bitcoin has a tiny market cap, but what if one is holding 100k bitcoin with a value of 100k each, it would be 10B, microsoft market cap is 340B if they can find 34 guy wallet like that or bitcoin reach 1M per coins one, i'm sure something will change

well you can always do the offline trick for your cold storage....

Well look here : https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking
It's open source as you can see and it was released on many websites including the famous forum MalwareTipes and since it's open source if professionals on programming detected that someone is bad that would've say . I guess no need to worry about it .

so, anyone here uses non-windows operating system?
i am using my new computer which is raspberry pi, raspbian.
i am safe from those bugs.


i mean apparently, not forever, have to apologise that forgetting to put "apparently" in it.

Yes, you are right.  I hope there is no risk using BTC Wallet in Windows 10 without changing any thing.

It is simple 227 line open source script.. that is extremely easy to audit.

https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/archive/v1.5.zip

Of course you can trust it as many of us have reviewed it.


True, but this has always been the case and thus why you need to keep patching the patches with open source scripts like above. Hopefully someday in the future Linux will finally get better support for software and drivers where this isn't necessary. 

still stay in windows 7 or 8.
Windows 10 recently launched, wait at least 1 or 2 years for windows 10 become better again

Microsoft have downgraded it's operating systems after windows 7(in my opinion) and Windows 10 is also in my ignore list.
Why is the feature of sharing your wifi password with friends on Facebook is present in it ???
Currently Linux operating systems are evolving very fast but you said Linux I not for you.

Mmm, im not sure, unless you are someone's target or something, i don't think so, but for a better peace of mind, I would at least go back to Win7, resist with Win7 until either there's a way to get rid of all the NSA shit on Win10 or just go Linux and use Win for gaming only if you are into that.

Yes, Windows xp is legendary and works perfectly on my old computer having my cold wallet.

Anyone running wallet software on windows xp is playing a very dangerous game. XP is no longer supported or being patched and is extremely vulnerable to malware, viruses and trojans. If you don't want to upgrade to 7 or 10 thats fine... run linux or ubuntu... but for goodness sake get rid of XP as you are endangering yourself and others around you.

If you are using XP as a cold wallet offline device that is fine as long as you physically remove all wifi cards and disable the network adapter, and be extremely careful about what memory sticks or sd cards you attach to the laptop. Than again , why not just get a SSS paper wallet , hardware wallet, or cheap raspberry pi instead for your cold wallet?

i will try to avoid that shit as long as i can  :-X#

Ubuntu is my friend.

I was considering Ubuntu myself but apparently Ubuntu isn't fully safe, it had some advertisement in-built on there that could be considered if not spyware then maybe adware or something the lines. What about other distros? can anyone recommend a distro that is easy to use?

I think it might be better to use windows 7 pc if we have indeed had a low speed

kk fine, and thanks.
But that pc doesn't have any wifi card inbuilt.
An I will surely upgrade that system to Windows 7 but need to buy a new ram. So going to shop from Amazon.

One killer word for all of your Windows concerns: Linux. I'm not even considering looking at new Windows versions. Spy system for the government(s).

I'm also sure every lock is breakable, that's why I just leave all my valuables outside the door. 

Companies like M$, Google and Apple want you to share everything. They do everything they can to make it easy for your to share everything. Recently, they have taken steps to make it extremely difficult for you to prevent their software from sharing all your stuff. It is a short update away from forcing you to send everything through their servers for scrutiny if you don't share enough willingly.

On the other hand, they want to share nothing. They will take you to court if they catch you sharing their stuff. They force you to accept thousands of words in agreements you cannot understand, written by lawyers who are employed specifically to relieve you of your rights while giving them rights over you. They sell the information they accrue to people who can harass or even imprison you but you cannot know who has it or what it is used for.

Food for thought.

-------------------------
"Everyone should wear these latest fashion bracelets", they say.
The chain bracelet meme goes viral.
While some are berated for calling them handcuffs.
In the peonage downward spiral.
-------------------------

It's reviews are good and not any big bug is found currently in it.

But still never gonna use it because windows 8 was also much appreciated in start but after time it became troublesome to use it.

So I'll wait for another year to see how it goes.

Sure. Because its not like Linux would track and log every website you visit,  conversion you have or file you have opened,  is it?
Reading Metadata is not like interpreting content as “similar”. (http://zeitgeist-project.com/about/) Now where have I heard that before?  8)

Damn, I'm glad that I didn't use the free Windows 10 upgrade.
I'll stick to Windows 8 for now :)

i am glad that i am using raspberry pi to type this post.
the nearby is my really old PC, but they are so much better than upgrading the windows 10.

I did not try windows 10 yet but I read some weird things about it like it slowdown the internet connection and track all what you do

No matter if Windows 10 is spyware or not, I don't think Microsoft has an incentive to steal an user's wallet but once when you're storing the wallet in the cloud unencrypted by your own, an employee could snatch the private key without you having any proof.

Since Windows 8, a paradigm change was introduced in a subtle way which is more than just spying around. It's the fact that Windows 8 and Windows 10 imports the well-accepted "app" concept for smartphones to the desktop, which includes mandatory phone-home and enforced signatures (it means: not being able to install arbitrary (unsigned) programs called "apps").
Despite the ability to turn off enforced signatures for apps in Windows 10 for now (it's called "developer mode"), Microsoft could take the next step soon, trying to apply the enforced signature concept to classic programs once it's widely accepted as well on desktop PCs.
Once when 99% of the users doesn't want to being able to run unsigned software, Microsoft could do the final step in removing the opt-out option for enforced signatures without having to deal with complaints, requiring you to jailbreak your own desktop PC in order to run unapproved software.

This concept could be enforced even on Linux if the future hardware components are forcing you to use TPM (Trusted Computing Module) - hopefully this will never happen.

1. Microsoft will still keep the majority of users because most users will accept this or even doesn't care. Look at some smartphones like iPhone, look at the tablets: the concept of dictating the user what to do with his own machine works pretty well.
2. As long as TPM doesn't get enforced that way; yes, Linux could get a boost from geeks abandoning Windows because of this but Linux won't take over because most users don't care.

exactly and we are believing a single person :D I could also post some bullshit about linux etc will these people believe that too? Omg what has this world come too.

Windows 7 was sweet i was happy with that and now im finding myself avoiding buying laptops with more recent windows because ive never downgraded a version so i have no idea how its done.

All a sys admin at microsoft needs to do is cherry pick the data collected from their enormous user base to find bitcoin (crypto) related passwords.

Steal coins and there is 0 recourse for the owner of the coins (well, the original owner  ;))

This ^ times 21,000,000

Any data collected by Windows 10 and sent to MS servers can be filtered to find private keys that are typed in or passwords to wallets (online or not). MS employee does a data analysis and takes the data the matches what they are looking for and can steal a users bitcoins or other crypto coins.

I don't think so. Linux has always been free so you have to ask yourself. All things being equal, why do people pay money for something that they can get for free?

The Linux community didn't capitalise on the abomination of Windows Vista. They didn't capitalise on Windows 8 debacle. Are they going to capitalise on Windows 10? Probably not.

Some in the Linux community ask "When will it be the year of the Linux Desktop". They pine for market dominance for a superior operating system. They definitely have the cheapest. They probably have the best hardware support (it runs on anything). It runs most of the internet, TVs and phones even. Yet they still can't get their parents, siblings and aunties and uncles to use it.

When they understand why, instead of snorting derision. When they pool their expertise instead of feuding between distros. When they make things easy because simple has become cool - that year will be the year of the Linux Desktop.

1) that doesnt help pc-newbs, which dont know this and just using defaults
2) tests have shown that there is still information submitted to ms - even if everything is turned off (but i am not sure what is transmitted in that case)

imho any os should never contact its vendor. only if a user tells it to do it...and yes this includes automatic updates (at least for me).

well.. i am a developer... but my boss wants our software to talk home. so please dont blame us ;)

bitcoin is money. i know a few people who uses it and arent pc-experts. if much pc knowlegde would be needed to use it, it is a total fail (imho).

at home i only use linux for various reasons.

I've read somewhere that they've changed their EULA again? Looks like I will have to downgrade my Windows 10 system again due to these privacy concerns. I definitely do not want Microsoft to hold information as leverage against me in the future.

Because this software is closed source how do you know that if you "turn off" all of the appropriate settings for security/privacy that it is fully off and not logging your key strokes anyway?

Do you have access to the Windows 10 source? If so please link me to it.

you dont need sourcecode to verify if there is anything submitted to ms.
a linux router with iptables -j LOG is enough.

but the question is (and you are right with that) you need the source to see WHAT is transmitted.

link: http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10

Information transmitted



When a webcam is first enabled, ~35mb of data gets immediately transmitted to:



Everything that is said into an enabled microphone is immediately transmitted to:



"If this weren't bad enough, this behaviour still occurs after Cortana is fully disabled/uninstalled. It's speculated that the purpose of this function to build up a massive voice database, then tie those voices to identities, and eventually be able to identify anyone simply by picking up their voice, whether it be a microphone in a public place or a wiretap on a payphone.
Interestingly, if Cortana is enabled, the voice is first transcribed to text, then the transcription is sent to:"




"If Windows is left unattended for ~15 mins, a large volume of traffic starts being transmitted to various servers. This may be the raw audio data, rather than just samples."




OTHER CONCERNS

"While the inital reflex may be to block all of the above servers via HOSTS, it turns out this won't work: Microsoft has taken the care to hardcode certain IPs, meaning that there is no DNS lookup and no HOSTS consultation. However, if the above servers are blocked via HOSTS, Windows will pretend to be crippled by continuously throwing errors, while still maintaining data collection in the background. Other than an increase in errors, HOSTS blocking did not affect the volume, frequency, or rate of data being transmitted."


 :o :o :o

the only way is to have two OS, one for sensitive informations like windows 7 and another one for everything else which isn't important even if they can retrieve information from it, this is the case of windows 10
by doing this you won't deprive yourself from using the new windows, while you can secure your privacy, and the best way would be a VM with windows 10 and the main machine with windows 7

true but some users are so used to using windows that they naturally would upgrade to version 10 if it is free.

I have some older versions of windows in VM that I use from time to time but I dont think I will be upgrading to windows 10 anytime in the near future if ever.

thats what i do.
i just need a windows install for some games (sadly wine doesnt support anything newer than dx9)

it seems ms has lost any vision and is driven only by management nowadays (not that it was much better in the past. but atm they just fuck their customers)

i wonder what bigger companies will do.
i dont think they'll accept this new ms policy or are business version without spyware?

IMO nothing is for free.
There is always a catch.

Also, has anybody considered the fact that the new "free" windows come with some sort of mining apps that start as a service (apart from the data mining)?
I have not used win10 (nor am I planning to at the mo), so can someone verify the claims of this OP and also do a little digging around the OS?

I would just add that whoever upgraded (not performed a clean install) from Windows 8 or 7 you should go downgrade right now. AFAIK the option to downgrade is there only 1 month after you upgrade according to the settings. I'm in the process of reverting to Windows 8.1 right now. It's a shame that Microsoft is doing this. I might even just start fresh with a pirated (intended) Windows 7 edition on the laptop as well.
Using Bitcoin or any other encrypted service (such as e-mails) is pointless on Windows 10.

While these privacy concerns might be exaggerated, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Yes I did it after 10 minutes only.
Windows 10 is simply crap!

Then when you downgrade also do this to remove the icon and the upgrade request or it will ask you again to do that.

http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/ (http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/)

And, lastly, go to explorer and clean the updates you downloaded to save up to 4 GB!!!

With all this crazy control shit that Windows is trying to get, sooner or later I'll be using Linux only!

why not now?
it takes a little time to get used to it, but when the switch is done you dont want to look back

eg small things like removing/renaming files while using them has made my life easier - and thats just a very small example

This would be completely unacceptable and evil if it didn't have this context-
https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking/issues/19

"The only IPs that are white listed in the DNS dll are update servers, activation servers, support and MSDN."

Hard-coding those Ip's around HOSTs makes a lot of sense because it is perfectly understandable for MSFT to insist upon collecting errors and patching botnet computers.

The concern I have with windows 10 is MSFT adapting the domains and servers gathering data continuously. I suppose we will see with time.


This is false as you can easily revert back to windows 7 or 8 with a single click in settings. I just did it on a computer yesterday.


Windows and OSX have had backdoor accessible to them and likely agencies like the NSA for many years before windows 10. They aren't secure OS's if you are a journalist, political activist, whistleblower, Network admin, or criminal. Don't use these OS for those purposes.


I love many distros of linux and open source but this is not realistic to do for many people. Linux doesn't have the driver support that MS has and many programs that people need aren't available on linux. Open source alternatives fall short too. I.E...  Gimp is not anywhere as good as photoshop and open/libre/star office is shit compared to MS office.

that only means that comfort is more important than privacy to you - which is fine.
my privacy is very important to me. even if windows could print food for free i wouldnt use it...

It is partially false, and the word easily can not be used. You can only downgrade up until 1 month after upgrading, after which this option gets disabled. Also downgrading tends to cause problem, like in my case. I can't connect to any website using any browser no more. Looks like I have to start fresh.

Source?

---

---

Update:
Possibly.
It is about comfort. The average user does not use Photoshop nor do they need the extensive functionality of MS Office.

I have upgraded my laptop a few days back with some of my hot wallet files on it. I stumbled upon some article regarding the bugs and other unknown privacy issues that may access sensitive information to the user (such as data mining and backdoors). I reverted back to Windows 7 immediately and because I used Windows 10 for awhile with some files on it, is it possible that all of the information already stored in my computer had been mined? Just a thought.


Not comfort primarily, but the functionality within these apps are what people see that's why they tend to use it over the other.

You can have both. Half of my computers run Linux and I have a KVM which allows me to switch between windows and linux with a simple click.


Clean installs are always best, but the revert I did yesterday was bug free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/01/nsa_helps_micro_1.html

that debate again?
what functionality is provided by photoshop and msoffice which cannot be done with gimp and open|star-office?

to be honest: i dont know photoshop nor gimp very well - but i used mso and staroffice very often (even used mso apis to automate customer-letters for a german bank).

anyhow: linux requires learning. much learning. which takes time. once this time is spent linux people are more happy and have a better system (functionality wise) than win users.

to provide an example which fits the topic: i dont want to check every ms update if i need to update my prevent phone-home capability apps.

only thing are games. i have a win install for them. i'll update that to windows 10. but hey: only games... let ms see that i think there os is a console ;)

It doesn't sound to me that you have spent much time using and comparing both. Not only are there many differences in features but some of these open source products are buggy and use too many system resources. I periodically download and test thunderbird/open/star/libre office because I would really love to use them over MS Office. But they aren't anywhere near as good. Gimp has come a very long way and isn't half bad but Photoshop is miles ahead in its features and abilities.

Lets be honest with ourselves here and acknowledge that while there are some amazing pieces of open source software (I.E.. VLC) , there are some horrific ones as well. Some people simply need to get the work done efficiently and need to use the right tools to do so rather than demanding everything they touch is open source.

i dont demand that anything is opensource.
i do have commercial software - even for linux.

and i have spent much time using both... i was a windows dev (pensionated now) and used windows at work. but at home i use linux because for me it is easier to use and has more functionality.

as i said: to really see the differences someone needs to use linux for more than a year. solely. its hard to switch and at first linux looks all complicated. but that changes after you have used it a long time.

btw i know two professional photographers which use linux only. so i dont think the differences between gimp and photoshop are that big. but i dont use them so i cant say anything about it.

i still think it boils down to comfort and "afraid of learning/changes"

That's certainly part of it, but keep in mind that many people need to work with others in teams so it is beneficial to use the same software for compatibility reasons and ease of familiarity when jumping between devices. Consistency is one important factor in efficiency. I use linux daily, and would certainly prefer to switch completely over but unfortunately linux on the desktop is still not ready.

at work i dont have a problem with windows. because any bigger company should have someone who checks updates and flag them for their users. but in general i dont really care what companies use: they should evaluate for themselves.

i just think that for private pc's linux is better.
but thats my opinion: ofc you are free to have your own. i dont even want to make you switch! this sub-topic started only because i was interested why somebody who said "maybe i'll switch" did not switch at that very moment.

Agreed and I hope one day I can completely switch over.

I just checked the latest Windows 10 version and it works pretty fast. I did not know that it has such privacy issues but I doubt that it's a bug as leaking private information to microsoft is so cheesy. Windows versions always have a compatibility issue and some online wallets may not even work with Windows 10. It's better to have Windows 8 and 10 installed on your machine to switch between the versions.

https://i.imgur.com/BfPPqlH.gif

Rolling Back From Windows 10 To Your Older OS Appears Problematic

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-revert-os,29727.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-revert-os,29727.html)

The only way to know if you like Windows 10 or not, of course, is to upgrade your system and give it a try. However, if you want to go back to your old OS, it appears that you're on a timer: Microsoft confirmed to Tom's Hardware that users will have only one month to decide if they want to continue with Windows 10 or not. A moderator on Tom's Hardware (darkbreeze) first discovered this issue, and when we reached out to Microsoft for more information, the answers we received raised some troubling potential issues.

Our initial thought was that this "one month" business simply meant you couldn't revert directly back to an old OS from Windows 10, but what about rolling back by simply performing a clean installation of your old OS? When we asked about that specifically, Microsoft dodged the question. At this point, then, we aren't certain if you can return to your old OS by using a clean install, because it is possible that Microsoft will invalidate old activation codes after that first month. This would seem in some way to align with Microsoft's upgrade deal, as you can only get your free Windows 10 by upgrading from your old OS; you can't use an old activation code.

If you want a clean install of Windows 10, you must first upgrade from your old OS to Windows 10, and then re-install Windows 10 again (from installation media). Even though it formats your hard drive during installation, Windows 10 somehow remembers that you previously upgraded from an older OS, and it will self-activate after installation. It isn't clear how Windows 10 does this, but it's likely because it saves the activation code somewhere else inside of your hardware. Some sort of online account-based activation would be far more conventional, but there is reason to suspect this other method is being used.

Microsoft informed us that a "meaningful" change to the hardware may require you to contact customer support in order to activate the system. This means that if you upgrade your system with a new motherboard or CPU, you may not be able to install Windows 10 without having to go through Microsoft's customer support, and even then, you may not be able to activate the system. Microsoft has stated that even with customer support, some hardware changes will invalidate your free copy of Windows 10 and require you to purchase one.

The problem gets worse for users who have a part go bad and need a replacement, as they don't have a choice; they need to fix the part or they can't use their PC, and the cost of that repair, then, would also have to include whatever Microsoft is charging for a new copy of Windows 10 at the time. You could simply go back to your old OS at that point to save a buck, but - again, if Microsoft invalidates your old activation code, you may be stuck having to buy a new copy of Windows 10 anyway.

Source: Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-revert-os,29727.html)

i am still using windows 7 and have no problem so far with it. and as far as your concerns go, you can always use offline wallets and only broadcast the signed transactions on your online pc.

Windows 10 can seek out pirated software (http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operating-systems/matthew-wilson/windows-10-can-seek-out-pirated-software/)

Instead of becoming better, they are making things worse. Luckily I've already downgraded. It looks like Windows 7 will be the best mainstream OS for people who are aware of the situation. Millions were tricked into this 'free' update.

afaik its for windows-online-accounts which are needed for things like cartana and may be used as a login.
btw also some hardware may get you flagged and banned from there. not sure what hardware. maybe some other controllers?

They need to remember that is it our hardware and we have just bought some of their software to run on it. Using their online services should not be a pre-requisit for using the software on our hardware. Its not theirs and they are not the internet prison service searching our cells, confiscating belongings and turning lights on and off as they see fit.

This is only the beginning, soon all the software will transfer all of your personal data

Agreed. It was everyone acceptance of a walled garden that prompted this move. Apple always had a smaller market share but it was Google and Sony that made the software as a service model acceptable for operating systems.

Linux needs to come into the 21st century and put these guys to sleep once and for all.

Omg, This is insane information. I heard about spying, I know that facebook and every other social network is monitored, but to include spying features in windows 10 on such huge scale is unthinkable.
Big brother are watching us all. Now, I will forever stay with some previous M$ OS unless these spying features will be eliminated.

The hardware Microsoft is trying to disrupt/ban is mods made to xbox 360's and xbox one's. The mods allow you to play copied games. Windows 10 allows you to stream xbox one games to play them on a PC. The wording of Microsoft's EULA is ambiguous enough to cover future possible mods/hacks. They are not worried about controllers :)

I upgraded a win 7 pro with win 10 pro on a 5 year old Dell Precision workstation. Mining a handful of gridseed 5 chips for scrypt and U3's and an ultrahoist for SHA256. Still trying to get some solo mining to work on it at the same time. Seems win 10 is working OK. no problems yet.

vj

Keeps getting better and better :o
Now they are stealing your bandwidth.

Source: (http://)

Gamers are going to love their ping times when the forced updates are in progress.

that's why i still use windows 7... I stopped at this version and feel safier;]

This is pretty horrible but can be stopped -
WUDO will not use connections marked as metered. To mark a connection as metered click Start > Settings > Network & Internet > Wi‑Fi > Advanced options and use the toggle switch under Set as metered connection.

WUDO can be disabled. Go to Start > Settings > Updates & security > Windows Update > Advanced options and then select Choose how updates are delivered, and use the toggle to turn Delivery Optimization off.

Thanks for sharing how to do this. I just updated my settings to disable the "Delivery Optimization" thanks to this.

Considering the push to have all users move to Windows 10 and the suggestions to do it
I am a bit suspicious of their intentions and will be delaying my upgrade until I am certain its non-malware
(Of course once installed activate the settings and look for workarounds but for now I'll hold my current version of Windows)

sure?
whether if microsoft dismiss security update to Windows 7 if you still use it? and if you still feel safe?

http://www.noobsforever.net/et/images/windows10_squares10_logo.gif

Why Windows 10 Sucks Or Everything Wrong with Windows 10

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html (http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html)

This article was not created to say that Linux is better (it's definitely not). It was created to stop Microsoft fans roaring in regard to Windows 10 and how it's better than Windows 7 in every regard - it's actually worse in most regards aside from DirectX 12 (which is actually hidden from the user and it's only exposed in games).

* Windows 10 spies (https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/) on (http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10) you (http://fudzilla.com/news/38470-windows-10-sniffs-for-piracy) aka phones home (http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/) (welcome NSA/CIA/thoughtcrime/1984)!

* You've got no real control over crucial features of the OS:

   - Windows 10 will have no service packs which means it will always be a work in progress and you are a perpetual beta tester.
   - Forced upgrades you cannot opt out of (and Microsoft have borked quite a lot of them recently so prepare to see your Windows die after installing a new portion of updates - actually Microsoft has already borked one update, read horror stories about KB3081424).

* Windows 10 features terrible UI inconsistency (http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-problems-missing-features), not limited to:

   - Two kinds of fonts antialiasing (ClearType v2 for classic applications and some awful dirty grayish (http://az648995.vo.msecnd.net/win/2015/05/101030-Start-Settings.png) shit for Modern apps).
   - All kinds of varying visual decorations and styles (some people have discovered up to seven varying styles in Windows 10).
   - Absolutely dissimilar classic and modern (PC settings) control panels.
   - Different fonts faces and sizes all around.
   - Different styles of settings for modern apps.
   - Absolutely different context menus and their appearance in different applications and apps.

* Terrible hardly configurable appearance, dubious design choices and extremely limited functionality (vs Windows 7/XP):

   - Two Control Panels with absolutely zero thought given to how they differ and why each one should be used.
   - Some Control Widgets are spread between the two Control Panels which is utterly confusing (e.g. Users Management).
   - No Windows classic UI for windows decorations. Windows decorations can hardly be configured at all in Windows 10.
   - An awful choice of colors/palette.
   - Absolutely awful, childish and amateurish icons (http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/files/windows-10-icons.png) as if we live in the era of 8bit displays (only rivalled by those in Windows 3.1 (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Windows_3.11_workspace.png) from 1992). Windows 2000 in 1999 looked better (http://winsupersite.com/site-files/winsupersite.com/files/archive/winsupersite.com/content/content/127365/reviews/pro_2.gif) than Windows 10 in 2015.
   - A big number of Windows 10 apps are still NOT on par with their classical counterparts from Windows 7/Vista/XP (many features are missing or many options are not configurable).
   - The start menu is an unusable abomination. Applications are listed as a list which is nigh impossible to scroll.

* Windows 10 sucks terribly if you are an unlucky user of a metered Internet connection:

   - It features huge mandatory system and apps updates (you cannot disable them, you can only postpone the system reboot after their installation).
   - As if it wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people absolutely do not need.
   - It uses your free bandwidth to distribute updates to other users nearby you.

* With Wi-Fi sense (http://www.osnews.com/permalink?616020) enabled anyone you have in your Skype, Outlook or Hotmail contacts lists — and any of your Facebook friends — can be granted automatic access to your Wi-Fi network as long as they're within range.

* A newly created user profile weighs over 300MB (!) while containing zero (!) information about the user.

* A newly created user profile is populated with all the default apps instead of giving the user a choice.

* In certain cases Windows 10 may kill your display if you are an unlucky owner of a laptop made by Alienware (http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-upgrade-warning-for-alienware-owners.779449/), LG or Samsung (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/862417/geforce-drivers/windows-10-official-353-62-drivers-are-killing-samsung-and-lg-notebook-lcd-display-panels/1/).

Just before you call me anti-Microsoft, a Linux shill, zealot or fanatic, here's a wonderful list (http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html) of Linux problems that I've been compiling over the past six years. The truth is I don't plead allegiance to any OS on the market. So, sorry, Windows 10 sucks no less than Linux sucks, it just sucks differently. So far, Microsoft has two great modern OSes: Windows XP and Windows 7 (in the past they had rock solid Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000).

Sources:

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html (http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html)
https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/ (https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/)
http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10 (http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10)
http://fudzilla.com/news/38470-windows-10-sniffs-for-piracy (http://fudzilla.com/news/38470-windows-10-sniffs-for-piracy)
http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/ (http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/)
http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-problems-missing-features (http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-problems-missing-features)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-upgrade-warning-for-alienware-owners.779449/ (http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-upgrade-warning-for-alienware-owners.779449/)
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/862417/geforce-drivers/windows-10-official-353-62-drivers-are-killing-samsung-and-lg-notebook-lcd-display-panels/1/ (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/862417/geforce-drivers/windows-10-official-353-62-drivers-are-killing-samsung-and-lg-notebook-lcd-display-panels/1/)

Since windows 10 have many bugs I still quietly enjoy windows 8.1  ::)

Glad I kept my windows 7 VMs.

Probably won't upgrade for a long time.

Microsoft products tend to suck. I hate being a beta user unwillingly or without being told.

This whole windows 10 saga reminds me of Windows Vista saga of bullshit bugs etc.

After some more research, testing, and reflection I will leave most of my windows boxes as 7 and put off upgrading to 10 for at least a few years , if not indefinitely. The whole WIN 10 OS is built as more of a cloud based and dependent OS focused on SAAS products for MS to shill and control. Our privacy tweaks don't completely disable this at the moment and may never do a sufficient job.