Bitcoin Forum

Looking to buy btc for PayPal(US$). PayPal account is verified.

Please post or PM rate if you are willing to deal.

No takers?

Did not want to do this but I'll include a kidney if I have to  ;)

What rate?

What rate can you give me?

The net amount, after fees, that will land on your side is US$94.00

Seeing how your trusted and you send a note with payment is that you already received what you purchased and you will not want to return no matter what then I can do 80$ worth for you. Escrow excepted you pay fees.

I'm fine with that. In regards to the note, will a signed message do from the address the btc must be sent to?

No sorry as PayPal is highly reversible and I have not done trades with you before so if you tried to reverse PayPal would not except a signed BTC message and would issue the reverse sorry.

Sorry, I think we are misunderstanding each other, can you just clarify on the note you want, I have no problem with that as I do not plan to reverse the payment. Must the note be on the paypal payment or a separate email? Not sure I understand correctly.

Sorry, on the invoice payment.

No problem with that. So I should just state that I have received the goods and that I'm satisfied with it and that I will not send it back and or try to reverse the payment.

Sorry, after your PM about you only have like 92$ and you want me to pay the fees so you can empty out your wallet is very sketchy to me. I will not be able to do this trade with you.

Everyone remember to use escrow, and to take every precaution to protect yourself with reversible payments.

Let me explain. I have $96.21 in my wallet. I said initially that I will send $94.00 as I checked on paypal and the fee was something like $1.70.

You then asked that I enter the required message in the message field. In order to do that I have to select the 'I'm paying for goods' option and not 'I'm sending to family and friends'.

When I select the 'I'm paying for goods' there is a message that states "$0.00 USD fee. Free for you. The seller pays the fees." There is no place for me to change this. That is why I said that I will send you the whole 96.21 to cover whatever fees there are.

And I do not expect you to still send me the same amount. You must adjust the amount on your side accordingly based on what you receive on your side. That is why I said initially that I'm willing to send first so that you can see the actual amount that lands on your side.

EDIT: Sorry my mistake. I see I can enter the message on the family and friends option as well. I can do that and pay the fee which will mean that you will get $94.48 on your side. So are you still interested ?

PM sent

All I know is that I had $96 in my account which was sent to you and the transaction has completed successfully. Phoned and confirmed this PayPal and also sent you the transaction summary confirming the transaction.

So waiting to see what you do...

Can you post some proofs, regarding the closure of your account? And btw I dont think it is any fault of the OP as he gave you the amount he promised, anything after that is your problem IMO

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, for now. Let him sort out what needs to be sorted out. Cannot really see what needs to be done as my Paypal clearly stated transaction completed successfully and Paypal support also confirmed this over the phone when they phoned me half an hour ago.

Funds already cleared to your account PaypalBusters. You can contact Paul at Paypal support, he confirmed the relevant information.

Hmm in that case maybe wait for a reply from paypal, I think OP would agree with this decision as well. If not maybe try charging it back if possible.

Transaction details below.

The problem I had with my Paypal account,as explained was that they placed a status of limited on it as I logged into it from two places at the same time. Did not see it was already open in another browser page. But as also explained, their support sorted that out in a matter of a minute. That is why I could not send.

https://i.imgur.com/SLKQvip.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xTHkmWA.jpg

PaypalBusters, I suggest you contact paypal, I will send you the details of the person whom I spoke with.

They said that you can request that the funds be returned and or get it sorted out on your side and keep the funds and send the bitcoins.

Will PM you the details now.

It really is not a very good idea to accept PayPal from the first poster. Anyone who does accept PayPal has the potential for the transaction to be reversed after several months; it does however appear that there are issues with funds the first poster has sent already.

If the first poster wants to buy Bitcoin then he should withdraw to his bank account and then use cash.

Kind regards
Panthers52

Not correct. If you send the payment as a personal payment it cannot be reversed. Only way it can be done is if the receiving party request for the reversal. The sending party cannot reverse it. You can confirm this with Paypal.

In regards to the funds, there are no issues with the funds. I've been on the phone with Paypal and they confirmed the transaction went through. There is no hold or anything on it on the receiving side. Transaction according to them is done and completed.

On the last point, its not that easy to just pull funds out of Paypal. Maybe in the US and most European countries but not everywhere. Paypal still only offer a limited service in many countries.

Unfortunately this is not correct. Even if you send PayPal with "Friends and family" the transaction can be reversed if the sending party claims (correctly or not) that his PayPal account was hacked. Another possibility is that the sending party received some kind of stolen funds and PayPal decides to reverse any payment sent with those stolen funds.

I have not been able to verify this, however I have read that stolen PayPal balances can be purchased for pennies on the dollar.

Unless the person selling PayPal funds is highly reputable then it is not a good idea to accept such funds and doing so could get you in some amount of trouble.

If you have no easy way to withdraw your PayPal funds to your bank account then you probably should not accept them as payment yourself.

As said, I spent close on half an hour with Paypals Customer Service and their Limitations Department and it was stated very clearly that they CANNOT reverse a personal payment. No matter what your claim is. All they can do is contact the other party and state the facts and ask that the person request and or agree to a reversal. They cannot or will not do a reversal unless that person agrees to it. A payment sent as a business payment can be reversed and that you can do yourself.

You are welcome to contact them and speak to them.

I understand what you are saying about stolen Paypal accounts. Its for that reason why I stated that my account was verified to indicate that it was not a stolen account.

In regards to the bank story. I do not use Paypal due to the difficulties we have with it here. Have not used that Paypal account in over a year and I do not accept payments on it. I however had a debt paid back to me and that was the only way in which to receive it so I had no choice but to accept it. Its for that reason that I wanted to exchange it here.

I believe they can, if you claim your account was hacked.

Also, why is everyone believing paypalbusters?  I don't see him providing enough proof to support his claim.

There have been countless number of cases that resulted in PayPal payments received as friends and family being reversed. Just search the scam accusations section for "PayPal" and see for yourself.

What do you think will happen if someone's PayPal account gets hacked? Do you think PayPal will let the hacker just keep the money? :D

Yes sorry you are right, in cases where there was malicious/criminal activity involved I guess they would or will have to reverse the payment. I was however more focused on my own situation where I was the one doing the sending of the funds. So there is no recourse in cases where you did the sending of the funds yourself. Whether you blame stupidity [as in my case] or your mother-in-law does not matter, they will not reverse it.

How is someone who is trading with you going to know if you are actually using your own PayPal account? How is PayPal going to know if your account was actually hacked (they have a few ways to tell, but this can still be faked).

This is why you should not accept PayPal funds unless the person sending such funds are highly reputable.

There are people selling forum accounts with no positive reputation for ~$20 or sometimes less so you should not trust the rank of someone sending such PayPal funds.

Kind Regards
Panthers52

If you want to I can speak to the people at Paypal again.

Your account was definitely not deleted due to anything I did. After I sent the funds you were online for a couple of minutes then told me about the 21 day hold and said I must give you a couple of minutes. An hour later you just dropped off the edge of the earth and when I went to your account, or that page [the link you gave me] the message as posted appeared about the closed account. It was only after that that I made contact with Paypal.

They said that they would contact you, did you get their email? Just wondering as you came back online just after they said they would contact you.


EDIT: Drop me a PM once you get this sorted out and or if you need assistance. It would be appreciated if you could get this resolved today. I'll be offline for a couple of hours but will check back later in this evening. Summer is starting this side, last place to be is behind a computer.

Its the message you got when logging in your paypal ?

Hmm where does he make the payment ? That printscreen correct me if im wrong look like a payment was made from a site.

How come your account is 2yo but is unverified ? As per the screenshot from the guy account.

No. When I tried to send the funds the first time I received a message that the funds could not be sent. I notified PaypalBuster about this and sent him a screenshot. He then gave me a link [https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=UFT6VAW7SHX6Y (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=UFT6VAW7SHX6Y)] which went to a Paypal page for his account where you enter a 'donation' which would then go to him. I tried that but it once again did not want to send the funds.

I then contacted Paypal support and they responded with the following:


As I said before, I have not used this account in almost a year so that is most probably what lead to this situation. I tried again after receiving this mail and the payment went through and I received the online and email notifications that the transaction was sent.

The transaction was sent as a 'Family/Friends' transaction. If you know Paypal you will know that if I sent it as a business transaction then the fees would have been payable by the receiving party and not by me. As can be seen however from the transaction details posted above in previous posts, I did put in a transaction fee, or rather Paypal did,and that only happens when you select 'Friends and family'.

As said, the payment went through and I received confirmations that the payment was sent AND that it was accepted by the receiving party, see below:

https://i.imgur.com/1SpV9LI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wobC6E0.jpg

PaypalBuster then informed me that there was a hold on the payment for 21 days. I have no proof of this and Paypal also seems to know nothing about this as they confirmed the payment was processed and completed. He said that he will sort it out and get back to me in a minute or two. An hour later he was offline so I went back to that 'donations' link and that is when I saw that image about the closed account.

So:

1) The payment was definitely sent as 'Family and friends' so it should have gone through immediately without any hold which all the confirmations suggest and what Paypal confirmed,
2)The transaction was completed successfully and the amount was delivered to the receivers Paypal account.

Weird shit inded, he got a message that your account was closed by trying to make payment from the donation button but right after he send payment directly to the same paypal account which is not closed...

No, I only got that message about an hour after the transaction. It was working fine before that but I had the problem on my account as mentioned above and could not send from that page.

You know what PayPalBusters, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but the more I look through your messages the more it seems to me that you know exactly what you are doing.

In the first PM you sent me you had the following details under your name:

https://i.imgur.com/PVFCWzp.jpg

On that website you sell a product for $180 called "Bypass Paypal 21 days hold" as per the link below:

http://paypalbusters.com/16-bypass-paypal-21-days-hold

So it seems like you are very clued up with Paypal seeing that you sell Stealth Paypal accounts and the like. You could have used your own product if there really was a 21 days hold could you not?

I'm sorry, but I'm no longer willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think you know exactly why that account of yours was closed if it was not you who closed it yourself.

So come clean and send me what I paid for and stop playing around.


EDIT: Just did a quick check, there is no Paypalbusters LLC. You know in most countries its considered fraud to represent something that is not fact in order to mislead etc..

I think its time to start some digging...

Sorry Nomad looks like you were scammed. He is just putting up phony screenshots of account being closed. He had the whole thing planned out ahead of time how he was going to scam his next victim IMO. Even had the fake account closed screenshots ready to go.

I did a test send of 1c to that account and it said nothing about not being able to receive payment. Therefore his account is indeed not closed. There was many warning signs already given . First it was a newbie, second just going to that paypalbusters site would be enough damning evidence not to deal with this guy if he is selling all sorts of shady sounding products mostly dealing with paypal. and last is they are non US unverified and using a girls name (jasmine ashton) LOL.

Sorry bro but your moneys lost and I highly doubt you'll be seeing the BTC.

Yes, I tried to let everyone know when I posted also paypalbuster was the confirmation actually sent from PayPal that you received the funds.?

I would bang you with a Negative but I myself can not be sure of what happened.

I want to throw up a .1 bounty for solid proof that this was a scam. If you have solid proof I will give you .1 if this was not a scam I will provide OP with the .1 and my apologies but this is very sketchy. This is why I did not deal with him.

A scam from whose side?

PayPal is definitely not safe to accept, but why exactly did you feel comfortable sending first to someone who has 28 posts and no trade history? This was a prime example when it would have been a good idea to use escrow.

Either, like I said I cancelled the trade with you because i got a really bad vibe especially the way you kept talking about it. Also with you saying it might have happened because you haven't used your PayPal in over a year makes no sense. There's been times I haven't used mine in almost that long and no problem. I'm just saying I cancelled my offer due to me getting a bad vibe then look someone's account got closed. Also the fact that none of my invoices ever looked like that and it always states both parties in the invoice. But like I said if solid proof can be shown on either side I have a .1 bounty on it. But it is also the seller that took the risk because PayPal is bad when it comes to seller especially for digital goods.

Now , having a look at the recent conversation, I'm beginning to feel this is a scam from paypalbusters. The whole thing now appears sketchy.
But yeah pretty much both people's story here sounds fishy, so I think it comes down to personal opinion here

Tell me about it, have you ever had one of those utter moments of stupidity? If not I had enough of them in one go for all of us today. Still kicking myself. I've paid more than enough in 'school fees' in my life to know better.

Agreed panther, I think it's because he was going to do a charge back or it was a stolen account but that's just my opinion. Even for escrow it probably wouldn't have helped if he did a charge back especially if he's in the states and the seller like it said in the supposed invoice not a US Resident they would just lock his account because the buyer could just say his account was breached by the seller.

Agreed.

I tell you what I will do, there has been many posts made today from many sides. I will put up one post tomorrow afternoon taking this thing right from the start with all PM's, emails etc.. presented in a chronological order.

It will only be screenshots but one of the senior members here is more than welcome to drop me a PM afterwards and I will then give him my login details to my paypal account as well as access to my mailbox as well as this account of mine so he can verify everything I posted is 100% legit.

Everyone can then make up their minds of what has transpired here today.

Hows that?

To be sure we would need the seller to post the name of who the person on the PayPal account that sent him the funds then everything and I mean everything would have to match up. But in the light of something like that then yes I would call that enough.

Escrow could have helped because it would have ensured that the terms of the trade were executed in a way that all parties agreed to. It would have been smart to have the BTC held for at least a few days because a large number of PayPal chargebacks occur very shortly after the transaction even though they can happen up to 6 months after the transaction. It would also guarantee that the person receiving the PayPal will actually pay the BTC as agreed.

If the first poster was planning on charging back, that is anyone's speculation, I would not personally accept PayPal from him though.

I do think it is clear the first poster was scammed and the person who scammed him was trying to use delay tactics so the first poster would delay attempting a chargeback to give him more time to launder the (now) stolen money.

Rusty, in your PM you asked me if I wanted your log in detail for PayPal I should not because I am not that trusted as a member yet. Also I am the one that is hitting you hard with the assumption that you did scam so it would not be fair for me to do that as I could just say yes you scammed so I would say ask panther I would except his conclusion.

Can you show us proof of your communications with Paypal and the person you spoke to. If I can verify that then I might change my mind but up to now you have not provided any details at all except for your story. And thanks for admitting that the funds are actually in your account and not back in mine as everybody thinks.

There are no funds in the account. I do not use it anymore. I will change the password afterwards again. So you are welcome to log in, look around, verify what I say.

I specifically asked you as you are my worse critic  ;D

why did you scribble out your name in the invoice?

The top image is a screenshot of paypal, the bottom of the confirmation email in my mailbox

What is your name. Also if you cannot forward the email of the invoice that would show who it was sent from and have both names on it I would have to give this to Rusty..

Can anybody suggest a trusted member we can get in to go through everything.

I'm afraid even if I do post everything that some will still think I doctored the stuff.

lets get a senior trusted member in here and I will open everything to him, forward all mails to him, give him my bitcointalk login, my paypal login etc....

He can then go through everything and confirm the facts.

From what paypalbuster sent me both transaction id's are different.

https://i.imgur.com/ug3cyYN.jpg

Here's a better screenshot of those two mails

https://i.imgur.com/HO1r120.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4z7NkAR.jpg

As said, we are going to run around in circles.

Is there any senior trusted member to take up this task?

You had to restore your account then why also so many sending receive funds email from PayPal? Before and after that is not solid evidence at all that right there in my eyes hurts your credibility even more Rusty..

Those were replies back from the support centre, the last two. I can forward them to you.

You'll see they start with RE: meaning it was a reply back

Can anybody suggest somebody that we can get in to check through everything.

I'm more than willing to open everything my side as already said.

The only way we are going to get to the bottom of this is for an independant person to check through everything. If not then all we are going to do is post like the one above from paypalbuster which I will not reply to as I'm not going to get involved in this as I know I did nothing wrong.

So I ask again, who can we get in to settle this once and for all?

Hmm ok maybe a solution I would offer is try live screensharing, something like teamviewer and both of you show your claimed proofs, this would exclude the probability of a photoshopped image or use of Inspect element. BTW I would say use panther if he is available for independent review, I think he is trusted so both of you should "obey" his decision in the end, if not provide public details as to why.

I dont care for screensharing, I'll give him all my logins so he can log into the actual platforms and check what he wants to check.

I will send him a PM and ask whether he will do it.

Also this is what PayPal sends when I send funds..



service@paypal.com

Not PayPal.intl.com

You probably should not use teamviewer because of the risk of having your wallet.dat stolen.

I am not sure why Patejl thinks I should mediate this because I have no interest in acting as escrow. There are plenty of others who are free escrows who might be willing to log into one of your's emails or PayPal accounts.

It is pretty clear what is happening and I don't think that level of proof is needed, especially if one of the parties specializes in laundering PayPal money.

Mail the address and see who replies webform@intl.paypal.com

Edit: I see the transaction emails came from service@intl.paypal.com the above address is what came from the support desk

I've pm'ed a hero member with high trust who also buys and sells and asked him to select another independent member with high trust and asked whether he will be willing to assist.

Will post here when I get his reply back.

Please understand that I mean something like teamviewer here and as you show the risk of using teamviewer some alternative may work like join.me for example where you can choose to give the control over to viewer or not, it can done like both people show only their screens.
I was referring to you as the recommended "escrow" here because you seem quite professional in these type of transactions, and you seem quite interested in the topic as well.
Yes seems so but personally I'm not sure who to trust here as OP presents his story which is nearly claimed to untrue everytime and paypalbusters who you seem not to trust. Maybe a confirmation will , as the statement says, confirm whose side of story is true and who would deserve a neg. trust, as OP seems to be a high ranked account , giving a neg. trust would destroy his reputation here. And as for paypalbusters he seems to be interested in trust as well, or he might just be off already if he would have scammed someone.

No that would not be support that would send for confirmation of payment. I can post mine as well.

I would recommend monbux here as well, he seems to be online and he is very trusted member of this community, and he deals with paypal quite frequently he might me able to help you.
Contact him here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=133846

From: service@PayPal.com
You sent a payment

Transaction ID: 1MK14947XY5721627
Dear I removed since it seems like the thing to do :),

You sent a mobile payment for $102.50 USD to Gyula Gall. A message has been sent to the recipient asking to accept or deny the payment.

Please note that it may take a little while for this payment to appear in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.

View the details of this transaction online


Your monthly account statement is available anytime; just log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_history. To correct any errors, please contact us through our Help Center at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact_us.

Amount you have sent:   $102.50 USD
Your total charge:   $102.50 USD
Gyula Gall will receive:   $102.50 USD
Sent on:   February 1, 2015
Message in your payment email:   Sent using the PayPal Mobile application
Sincerely,
PayPal

Sent him a pm

So at this point I'm fairly certain you scammed.

Maybe wait for monbux for an official statements here, if he is going to do so. You should'nt jump to conclusions, as paypalbusters statement sounds fishy to me(and QS according to his rating)

Thats fine, just keep that bounty close at hand, you're going to need it  ;D

Yes but quicksilver posted his decision in the beginning. Also with him saying that I was logged in to two different computers witch locked him out is bogus as well. I've logged into multiple they just ask to verify its a trusted computer among other things that he said. He started he hasn't used it in over a year. Who just leaves 100$ somewhere that your not going to use.

The 100 was not in there for a year. I last used the account about a year back. Received 100 into it yesterday and sent it out today. But for the year or year and a half before that there was only +-2.20 in there

Monbux is assisting us.

Gave him my paypal account details so long.

So everything that I just looked up is that service.intl@paypal.com is a scam and many people got scammed with it..

So you got 100$ yesterday but your account was locked today. That is even better now.

Its service@intl.paypal.com

Firstly,  paypalbusters should send the BTC if he can't prove that his account froze because of the op.  I'll review the PayPal transaction right now but I'm on the op's side right now... Why he would trade with anewbie member with no rep, and send first, I'll never know :-/

It was not locked. It had a status of limited meaning that I could not send funds.

Here is where they restored it after I emailed them, note the email address

https://i.imgur.com/azPjo2l.jpg

Must I forward you the emails that went with those transactions?

This is what's confusing me right now.  Rustynomad did not charge back or file a dispute.  In fact, the transaction is still marked as completed.  Furthermore, his account is verified and yours isn't.

So, it shouldn't have been a problem in/with the transaction unless I'm missing something.

Because I trusted you, is that so wrong? Stupid maybe but I usually trust people until they prove otherwise

How where the funds added? Also what was the name he sent to?

yes it is bad for anyone to send to a newbie first for anything unless you had alternative plans.

Mobux,can you confirm that I did send to the following address

https://i.imgur.com/sivB7pf.jpg

The person he sent the money to was: jasmine ashton.
It was sent using solely his PayPal balance from the $94 USD he received earlier from another user, just a day before.  I see no problems and nothing in the resolution centre.

Confirmed.
Sent to:   
jasmine ashton (The recipient of this payment is Non-U.S. - Unverified)
Email:   
jasmine.ashton88@yahoo.com
Amount sent:   
-$94.77 USD
Fee amount:   
-$1.42 USD
Net amount:   
-$96.19 USD

Date:   
04 Sep 2015
Time:   
13:05:23 GMT+02:00
Status:   
Completed

Subject:   
You have sent $94.77 USD to jasmine ashton with PayPal
Funding Type:   
PayPal Balance
Funding Source:   
$96.19 USD - PayPal Account

Well, it's very unlikely that your PayPal account is gone because of the money the op sent you.  If that were to happen there would be something wrong with the op:'s account as well, and I don't see anything.

Not if it was reversed by credit card or PayPal My Cash claiming it was stolen. Or even by the bank.
I say we should wait a couple of days to verify he doesn't receive anything back.

Can you also just perhaps confirm that no funds was withdrawn from the account and that there is no bank account linked to the account

You don't have to have something linked to charge a reversal.

If that were the case, wouldn't the transaction show up as reversed on the PayPal account?

Monbox, I have the sure fire way to make sure this is legit...

Mobux,

maybe you can confirm on paypal. When you send a business transaction there is no fee. The business pays the fee. So if that transaction of mine was sent as a business transaction it would have been one straight amount.

It however is not, it has a service fee which means that it was sent as family friends.

You can try and test it with that 0.02 in there.Just go to send, select business and check the message that comes up and then try family/friends

No, I've had to do a reversal with someone before through my credit card the gave it right back then around 2 weeks later PayPal sent an email saying that the investigation was closed.

Neither party gets charged for family and friends that's free for both parties...

Okay, but the funds that were sent did not come from a card. As he said, it came from a friend of mine. So no way I could reverse that to a card could I?

I think it might depend on country, I was charged 1.44

See link below, free in US but not on international and my account falls under international thats why the intl in the emails

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ690&m=HTQ

Not you but your friend could..

Correct but he would not be..

That's incorrect.  There is usually a fee depending on the country.

Was paypalbusters charged a fee as well?

See link below, free in US but not on international and my account falls under international thats why the intl in the emails

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ690&m=HTQ

His friends transaction is still marked at completed as well.

Is PayPal buster from india?

No, he's in europe, his site is hosted in Germany i think

So there is multiple reason why they could lock his account. At this point three are so many variables but through reading you go have to except a payment but not friends to family. I would say for PayPal buster to send the btc to escrow until established what is going on. It could be held for up to 21 days.

I'll accept that and I'll also remove the negative trust if he can show confirmation from Paypal that his account has in actual fact been frozen/deleted/vaporised or whatever.

It was definitely not me that had anything to do with his account problems as he accused me of. Not sure how I could hack into Paypal and delete his account.

I don't think so though, he seems to have gone offline. Call me skeptical but this seems a bit too fishy to me.

***deleted**** I was being nasty  >:(

Is my part of the inquest now over....

Anything else we still need to check or is there anything else anybody still needs to have verified?

@paypalbusters  why would you email paypal instead of calling for a serious matter like account being deleted?

I just want to clarify some issues here quickly in regards to my dealings with some members today.

There are some that made offers today and they mentioned that I did not come across as 'trustworthy' or they were not feeling comfortable. I can understand this but please give me this opportunity to explain why this might have been the case.

One of the members who made an offer asked me to do the whole Skype thing with me showing my myself and my ID over the webcam. I told him that I did not have Skype installed and even if I did that it would not help as I have no webcam. I offered a copy of my id [which is properly certified]. So he ran for the hills. I eventually dug out one of my old laptops with a webcam and got Skype going on it but by that time he was miles away.

Another made an offer and we agreed on the price. I said I have 96.21 and I would send 94.00. Those on the international platform of Paypal can confirm that when you select a business transaction there is no fees. There is a small balloon that pops up saying 0 fees, receiver pays all. However, on friends/family transactions there is a small fee depending on the amount you send. This member asked me to send via friends/family, I checked, saw the fee was about 1.50 so said I will send 94.00. We then fixed the number of btc to send.

He then asked me to add a message to the invoice saying I received the goods, will not reverse etc.. and this is where it went tits up for this deal. I have had my Paypal account I think for around 4 or 5 years now. In that time I've done about 8 transactions with the last being about two years back. Modux can confirm this from the history. So its not like I was on Paypal each day, I've hardly ever used it. So when the member said INVOICE my head went straight to business i.e. it had to be a business transaction.

I then told him I will send the full balance of 96.21 and he pays the fee, as the international Paypal is setup for business transactions. The idea was to send everything so that he would still get out a little more than the 94.00 as agreed on. If less, then he could just drop the number of btc to send. But when I said this alarm bells went off in his head as to why I want to send the whole balance now and let him pay the fees and why change the amount etc. I was not aware of the fact that I could also include the message in the family/friends section [never checked, idiot]. So he also ran for the hills as he thought I was now trying my luck. So more matter of miscommunication than anything else.

And then my send problems today. I know for many it may not make sense but just think of it. The account stood still for close on two years with $2 in it, almost a 100 arrive, I login for the first time in about two years and try to send the whole balance. Paypal stops me and tells me the account has a 'limited' status. I need to change my password and the security questions. I did that and I get a message that the 'limited' status has been removed. So all is fine and well.

However when I tried to send to Paypalbusters it refused to send. So I sent a mail of to support, they 'restored' the account and off the payment went without problems. So nothing funny really.

So if you were one of the people I dealt with today, sorry for the confusion. Its not like I try and buy bitcoin everyday with Paypal. This was my very first [and I think last]. So if I have shaken your trust sorry for that, it was definitely not done intentionally.

Please if there are still any questions that you think needs to be asked/clarified then please post them so we can deal with them and get them out of the way so we can move on.
 

Are you still buying? Would you like to do a smaller $20 exchange with me? $20 PP for $18 BTC @ Bitstamp USD Rate

Shoot me a PM if interested, I'm looking for small amounts of PP funds to buy themes and graphics with.

Sorry no. I do not actually use Paypal at all. I received money on Paypal and had nowhere to send it or anything to do with it so thought I would exchange it for bitcoin. Now the wallet is empty as planned, pity the bitcoin wallet did not grow at the same time  ;)

This bounty still up, you should offer it to Paypalbusters to open his side of the records. Tried to get hold of him today but I can assume that he has left, for good.

I read through this thread again this morning and one thing that everybody seems to miss is the fact that he has actually received the money on his end.




Everybody is looking at my Paypal as if I did not send the funds but he clearly admitted on several occasions that he has received it. I'm not sure what more proof anybody wants. Also, just read the quote above again and tell me you are not suspicious. He received funds then all of a sudden his Paypal just gets deleted from the servers of Paypal. Since when do Paypal 'delete' accounts? They might freeze it yes but not delete it.

He then says this is a new kind of scam and everybody jumps on the wagon with him accusing me of taking his money, putting up bounties and the like. But just read it again and look what he's actually saying.....He's saying that I sent him money, he received it, and then, I'm not sure how, I hacked Paypal and deleted his account and in the process got my money back and or stole it back....

So one thing that is clear is that he did receive the funds. That he admitted several times. That is unless I again hacked Paypal to make their servers show him a false payment on his side. What is not clear here is what happened to his Paypal account? Why did Paypal just delete his account? Anybody ever hear of anybody else that had their accounts deleted, not frozen or anything like that but completely wiped from the Paypal system?

We have no proof of this, just his word. Also think of what kind of proof has he provided up to this stage, he has shown us transaction records that showed what? That showed he received the funds, he has not shown anything to show that the payment was rejected, reversed or anything else to indicate that it was my payment that blew up his Paypal. He has not provided any kind of proof that his account was wiped from Paypals systems, no screenshot of failed login's or that no account exist, no emails to support or anything. We just have his word that his account went up in this air.

So what has he actually told us and provided proof of thus far? That he did receive the funds on his side.

EDIT: I forgot one very important aspect in all of this. Look at the image below and read the message very carefully:

https://i.imgur.com/SSSTNu3.jpg

What does it say? Does it say the account has been blocked, blown up, deleted....No it says the account was CLOSED. That only means one thing, he closed his own account. Paypal does not run around closing accounts. They do run around freezing and or blocking accounts but not closing account.

I tell you all now, I call total BS on Paypalbusters stories. He is nothing but a scammer and a liar and I will stand by this until he can provide proof of where his account was deleted and also provide proof of where he made contact with Paypal to have this resolved.

Without that his story holds no water and he is just nothing more but another scammer. End of story.

If he is what you claim to be I don't think he will provide his side of the proofs, and yup he hasn't provided any proofs to confirm his side of the story.
Actually he hasn't just saw he is online right now, I'll try PMing if it works.
Bad luck if you got scammed though, but this is a lesson for you as well, never deal without an escrow.

He just sent me an email lol



View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Trust: -2: -1 / +0
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!
   
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« Sent to: V.Lace on: Today at 08:21:00 AM »
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!!! WARNING: This user is a newbie. If you are expecting a message from a more veteran member, then this is an imposter !!!
Hello,
I can do that exchange for you, i`m willing to offer 0,6089 for your 155$ paypal.
We can use escrow and split the escrow fees or you can go first as family and friends.

Let me know if you are interested, have a good day!

paypalbusters .LLC
www.paypalbusters.com

You haven't provided any proof except an image which when examined was seemed as incorrect, the transaction details didnt match or something, and as monbux has already said paypal didn't close accounts because of rustynomad not using the account for over an year, and I believe his word for it, and paypal can't delete your account, you can do that only by yourself. You my friend, seem like a scammer to me.And as for them payment I stick to monbux and OP here, as your account got deleted after Op sent his payment, anything after he sends the payment is not his problem. And if paypal has deleted your account it is probably because of the blackhat methods you use not because of OP , you should send the payment to the OP and close it here.
Or provide more proof to a trusted escrow, for ex. monbux.

Just had a look at your website and you seem to be selling all kinds of blackhat methods someone can use against paypal, fake VCC fake identity , selectable from any country. I wouldn't be surprised if paypal found about this and decided to delete your account for good.
And the actual problem occurred after you got the payment, and it was your account that got deleted, which you should take full responsibilty for as it has been proven that OP had nothing to do with it, at most it might have gotten your account froze.
And you are ignoring my question about proofs , and confirmation from a trusted escrow it seems, if you keep ignoring these requests, I would request people from default trust to tag you as a scammer or you have to give a reason why should you not be tagged as a scammer.

We will see in a day or two. Paypal has started an investigation into the transaction as I've asked for proof on whether the funds were delivered as per the transaction, that it has not been reversed, that it is not in their [i.e. Paypal's] possession and that it is either still in Paypalbusters account, or another account he possibly moved it to and or cashed out.

I've offered Paypalbusters my assistance in getting this sorted out this morning. If he does not have the funds [which I do not believe] it means that Paypal has it as I do not have it as Mobux already confirmed, my payments are cleared and completed and not returned. I've asked that he send me copies of his communications with Paypal but none has been forthcoming leading me only to believe that there were none and there will never be as he closed the account himself. There was never any problem with that account.

V.Lance, run for the hills buddy, you are about to be taken for a ride.


Edit: Apparently Paypal has contacted you [Paypalsbuster] for details on the transaction, have you responded to them?

Anyone can fake that text, I don't think it can be regarded as a proof, I would like a trusted member's opinion on this rather than some text that looks like its been edited.

In that cas I would advise you to put the funds in an escrow first and after paypal's investigation has been done on the matter it would be decided who'se fault it was in closing of your account and if it was your own the escrow will forward the payment to OP and if it was OP's fault the escrow amount will be returned to you.
If this was not your fault I will request QS to remove the neg. rep from your account regarding the transaction but it depends on him if he remove it, and even if he does he may tag you for using blackhat methods.
Right now I don't think anyone will trade with you with that negative feedback. This is the solution I offer.

Ok but now you seem to be more on the guilty side, only a investigation from paypal's side will finally solve this matter.
He wasn't the one who gave you a negative feedback, it was QS( No.1 Scambuster in bcttalk), see the feedback for more details.
Calm down now there, there is no need for any offensive language.
It will not be given to him but an escrow, so you can't later just vanish when the matter has been cleared.
Well he did send you the money, and if it was your own fault which got your account closed(which will be discovered , if it so , from paypal's investigation) then he isn't responsible for it.

P.S: what about this?

Paypalbusters,

That is good news then for both of us.

Yes I did contact them about the transaction but that was an hour after your account was closed and I had no feedback from you. I thus phoned them to ask whether the transaction could be stopped or not but they told me it could not be done and that the transaction was done and dusted - NOTE: I did not log an investigation until this morning.

If they however did stop it as you indicate from those posts then we need to put our information together and contact Paypal together so that they can release the funds to you as intended and we conclude the transaction and or we reverse everything and call it a day, I'll restore your trust and apologize formally to you.

That's why I have been asking for you to let me know who you spoke to. As I said right from the start, I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but you are not communicating with me as asked so that we can get this sorted.

Can you please forward those emails to me. I will then get one off to Paypal asking for the funds to be released to you and explaining everything to them. I will copy you on the mail I send to them.

Paypalbusters

I suggest the following resolution.

1) You send the required bitcoin to Mobux to be held by him in escrow,
2) You forward me those emails from Paypal so that I can attach it to my mail as well as get any reference numbers etc...
3) As soon as Mobux confirms the bitcoin is in escrow I will send a detailed email to Paypal and Mobux and cc you on it explaining the events and asking for the funds to be released to you, do you have another Paypal account?, if not Paypal will have to reversed it to me. We can then discuss whether we conclude the transaction either by me sending it to Mobux or we then just cancel the transaction.
4) If I do not get the email off to Paypal today, which will be confirmed by Mobux, then he releases the bitcoin back to you and he's then welcome to flag me with negative trust,
5) If Paypal decides to reverse the transaction Mobux releases the bitcoin back to you unless we agree to complete the transaction,

Your feedback on this?  

Only saw this post now, so you still have your paypal account then, thought it was deleted.

In any case, see my suggestion to a resolution above.

Have you read my proposal above?

I would like to get this matter resolved as soon as possible and I'm sure so do you.

Okay so then the next step will be to decide whether we go ahead with the transaction and get it resolved. If so then we need to follow the steps in part A below. If we decide not to go ahead with the transaction then we need to follow the steps in part B below.

A
1) Speak to Mobux to get the bitcoins to him in escrow. I will be responsible for any escrow fees.
2) Send me all the relevant emails from paypal especially ones with reference numbers etc.. so I can include those in my mail.
3) Provide me with a paypal address where the funds must be released to by paypal. If you no longer have a paypal account could you perhaps create one again or know somebody who will accept the funds for you or perhaps Mobux can escrow that as well for you (I will cover the cost of that as well).
4) I get the mail setup and send it out to paypal and everybody involved
5) We wait.....

B
1) Reply to the email Paypal sent you in regards to the transaction stating that you agree to it being reversed and sent back to my account. They will not do the reversal unless you agree to this.
2) We call it a day and we each go our own way

You contacted PayPal an hour after you sent asking if they could stop a transaction? But you didn't actually ask them to stop that actual transaction? Also please stop saying that they can't stop transactions they can stop friends to family and purchases all the time especially if you call and say you had an unauthorized login to your account.

PayPalbuster, if you would like you can send me the BTC if you trust me and I will escrow it. I also have a way to make sure to see if there was an actual claim filed. If you send me the BTC, I will move the BTC into a different escrow for you I will just hold the responsibility. This is I'm still sorry to say tho in most cases if everyone wants to believe PayPal and that's just what we take from rusty then you are going to loose. PayPal always takes the side of the buyer and not the seller I've had this problem in the beginning with PayPal I took a 500$ loss so I know first hand.

I'm Just for warning you Rusty, if you say that PayPal can't reverse a transaction again I will bang you with NEGATIVE feedback. This is not true at all they can always reverse I will bang you with the negative feedback and that you are stating that PayPal funds are not reversible..

Let me clarify, I was asked by Paypal whether I sent the transaction which I confirmed. That's why they would not reverse it as it was not sent by an unauthorised person.

So yes you are right, Paypal can be reversed but in my case where I stated that I made the transaction they will not.

If you clarified to PayPal that you did send it they would not put a 21 day hold on it. Even if he was trying to blackhat the situation the money still would have been released at this point I would say you reverse your payment and paypalbuster shouldn't send the BTC and you both go your separate ways..

Could some one please send us as much information as possible about this scammer. Who ever it is, is not as anonymous as they think. PM me or send us an email at scam-watch@cyberservices.com .


BitCoin Scam Watch and Fraud Investigations
http://scam-watch.bitcoinheaven.net/

The matter has not been settled and or decided yet.

Just for interest, do you want the information for investigation purposes and or to publish?

Unless paypalbusters is willing to put the entire amount of BTC into escrow immediately then he is 100% scamming you. It takes time to be able to sufficiently cash out from stolen PayPal funds in whatever ways the PayPal scammers do this, and the longer you wait to dispute the transaction, the greater the chances are that they will be able to successfully cash out.

Unlike scammers that steal your bitcoin, you will hear from a PayPal scammer after they take your money, the reason being that they will try to delay you from realizing that you are being scammed. If they can delay you for long enough then they will be able to get some percentage of the amount they stole from you in some cash-like value. Time is of the essence, you should file a dispute yesterday.

Paypalbusters,

You really do not want this matter resolved do you. I've posted my proposal which I think is more than fair and you said 'sure' so I assumed you accepted that yet nothing is forthcoming from you. I've asked several times for your cooperation to get this resolved in an amicable manner but you just never make any effort to do so.

Have you provided your Paypal details to Monbux yet as you offered to do several times? I know he contacted you for it.

To date I have provided solid proof that I've sent the payment to you and you have confirmed that you received it. Everything you posted has essentially confirmed what I've said thus far.

The main question that remains unanswered is whether you withdrew the funds from your Paypal account before you closed it and or whether Paypal actually managed to place a hold on the funds. We have no proof of that whatsoever as your account was conveniently closed. I spoke to Paypal yesterday and anybody is welcome to contact them and ask them, they do not close accounts, not even if there are suspicions and or proof of fraud. They will however freeze the account but never close it. They cannot go and delete an account, then all the proof and records are gone, just think about that one a bit.

So you saying that Paypal closed your account is not true. You still have your account details, give it to Mobux as you offered so that he can either login and or recover the account and then provide proof that the funds are either in that account and on hold and or that it has been received and moved.

If you cannot provide that then I'm afraid there is little else to believe but that you managed to get the funds out. You keep on saying the funds were on hold yet you have provided no proof of this. When you received the funds Paypal would have emailed you to state that you received funds but that it was on hold.

You have so far provided absolutely no proof of Paypal closing/deleting your account as well as no proof of the funds being on hold at the time you received it.

Just received this from Paypal....


So my transaction is through and cannot be reversed or rather Paypal will not be reversing it. That means the only way to get my money back will be if Paypalbusters notify Paypal that the transaction should be reversed and or if he does it on his Paypal account.

He will most probably again come and state here that he no longer has the account which is a load of nonsense as I already explained and even if so why is he still refusing to provide those account details to Monbux like I did with my account?

So at this stage:

1) According to paypal the transaction has gone through and will not be reversed.
2) There is no hold on that transaction as Paypal has completed everything in regards to that transaction so Paypalbusters have my funds.
3) His claims that Paypal deleted his account is bogus as Paypal does not do that. They will freeze an account or set it to 'Limited' status so that you cannot transact from it but they will never just delete an account.
4) I've given my Paypal account details to Monbux and he confirmed my payments and the fact that no reversal was made, he can check it again at any time.
5) Paypalbusters have offered to provide his Paypal details to Monbux on several occasions but has to date not done so.
6) Paypalbusters keeps on claiming that there was a hold on the funds when it was sent but we have no proof of that.

So believe what you want but this guy is a scammer, end of story. All he does is mouth off here about how he has been scammed yet we have no proof of that. Go back and look at everything he has uploaded. Essentially everything he has said and done so far only confirmed the fact that he actually did receive the funds. Also, so far he has done nothing to try and resolve this issue.

I'm done, this is a waste of time. I'll accept the fact that I've been scammed. Well done Paypalbusters, another notch in your scamming stick.

If you're willing to place the funds in escrow, why haven't you yet?  I'd gladly hold the 0.37 BTC.

Hey everybody, guess what, Paypalbusters is back, but not as Paypalbusters but rather as paypalhunter

He's currently busy selling fake Paypal accounts on this very forum...

See this link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171991.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171991.0)

Check the wording etc.. and then go look at the wording etc..on this page http://paypalbusters.com/stealth-paypal-accounts/23-usa-paypal-accounts.html (http://paypalbusters.com/stealth-paypal-accounts/23-usa-paypal-accounts.html)


Do anybody here still think he was scammed by me? This guy knows exactly what he is doing. I'm sure the mods would be able to verify the IP's he's connecting from.

EDIT: Thread deleted, think by the mods. However, the text in that thread was an exact copy of the text on the paypalbusters.com website. This guy clearly knows his way around Paypal accounts.

cashoutservices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=388032

is a real scammer...I have trusted him and sent him $200 USD for payoneer....guess what he blocked me on Skype and not answering.....I think I have issues trusting people so fast.......I hope u die soon cashoutservices

Just checked on the progress of the complaint I've put in with Paypal and see that they have sent PaypalBusters another email asking for details on the 8th. There has been no response from him to them, up to now.

If his account was so magically deleted/vaporised would this not have been the ideal time to take it up with them to get it sorted out. Also, he has still not posted anything in regards to what he has done to try and rectify the problem with his account. If the funds were still in his account at the time it was 'apparently' deleted by Paypal do you not think that he would have done something and or at least have tried to do something about it and more, would an honest person not have kept the others up to date on this progress?

Clearly this is not happening and that is because he has already grabbed the money from his account and closed it himself. That is why he is not speaking and or responding to Paypal's requests for information.

If there has been any doubts in your mind about who the scammer is here then clearly his actions over the past week should remove that doubt for you.

Members must be careful, I see that he's still active on the forum but under a different user name. I've picked up one definite one so far namely paypalhunter. I'm sure that by now he has more accounts setup. He posts in threads where people want to buy bitcoin for Paypal but then state that he only accept PM's, he does not post anything else in the thread, most probably because he knows it will be picked up by me or other members.

BtcCrazy1, hope that bounty of yours is still ready and available....

I never doubted you and realized early on the other guy was likely a scammer.

That said, you should only use reputable sources to buy BTC. I use paypal to buy btc but have a go to guy that charges a small fee. In the past I have resorted to paying very marked up prices on LBC. Why? Because I knew I was dealing with very reputable sellers and the chances of getting scammed were very low.

Another service I use is LibertyX I have local wireless shops around me and I go hand them $50 or $100 in cash whatever and they give a code I redeem and the BTC is instantly in my wallet a minute later. Works great and there is no fees yet.

There was quite a few red flags that should have alerted you almost instantly. The fact this guy runs a website called "paypalbusters" offering shady services should have made you run. Although I've gone to his site and you can't actually check out because when you get to his payments page there is no options for method of payment. You have been here a while you should have known better than to deal with a newbie for a decent chunk of $$. Next time I'm sure you will be much more careful.

It sucks to get scammed, but this guy likely knows what he is doing. The money was probably transferred out as soon as he received it.

I doubt you will get the money returned from PayPal, you sent money for a tangible item therefore you have no purchase protection. So even if you open a did not receive dispute claim they will almost always likely side with the other party.

Agree but this was a once off. I have no need to buy bitcoin as I get paid out in bitcoin. I just wanted to get rid of the money in my Paypal as I have no use for Paypal.


Agree, all the signs were there, just had to open my eyes but yes, lesson learned.


I also doubt it strongly so I've written it off already. Just waiting for their final report which I will post here and will then close the thread and move on.

Do you seriously think there is any chance that this is anything other then a scam?

I labeled his account as a scammer ~a week ago, although, my ratings no longer have any significance.

I would strongly advise that you open a scam accusation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;board=83.0) against this person in order to warn others about this issue.

I would also recommend that you do not make any more trades until you can invest significantly more time into learning about how to protect yourself when dealing with others. It is more then abundantly clear that it would be very easy to scam you, and I do not doubt that many scammers have noticed this.

No I don't but some still think I scammed him.


What's the use, he has already created new accounts and could also just buy another account. So flagging an account is of little or no use.


I do not trade, as said, I get paid in bitcoin so no reason to trade. This was a once off deal and no its not abundantly clear that I'm a sucker for a scam but rather that I'm willing to accept some risks. This deal was for under a $100 so I was not to worried about escrow and I was fully aware of the implications and thus willing to take the risk. The loss will not kill me and or impact on my life, I spend way more than that this with an evening out so not a big issue money wise.

Just a quick update for those who followed this story.

Paypal came back to me in regards to the transaction in question stating that the payment cannot or will not be reversed. So I'm out of pocket for the funds sent to PaypalBuster. The payment was sent, received and accepted on his side and as far as I can establish the funds has been withdrawn.

Below is the reply received from Paypal.


If you make use of Paypal to buy bitcoin then take note of this message. If the payment was sent as a personal payment then Paypal will not reverse it should you be scammed.

Thread locked.