Bitcoin Forum

DASH released a Decentralized Governance by Blockchain System, embeded with vote function.
The masternodes are coming out to share 45% of mining reward. What do you think about it?
http://cointelegraph.com/news/115264/dash-the-first-decentralized-autonomous-organization

If bitcoin had this implemented the blocksize debate would have been a thing of the past. I love the way Dash is always at the cutting edge of crypto, solving all of bitcoins problems plus ensuring the solutions are sustainable for future growth.

Also, funding directly from the blockchain for projects voted by the masternode community. Anyone can submit a proposal to develop/provide services to Dash and get paid for it if consensus is agreed.

I think DASH is a clumsy crypto-system and that Evan already proved with lowering the emission and nixing a vote that benefited the majority of holders that he is all about keeping the instaminer's profits secure and not about the larger (# versus %) community--but of course, since a majority of masternodes are held by those very instaminers, there are no worries of any vote that can't be bullied into their favor. But yeah, if you're all about symbolism over substance, can't read between the lines, or want to try winning a game of greater-fool-hot-potato, this is the coin you deserve.

Which crypto-system would you suggest they'd migrate to? Now that they have the funding directly from the blockchain they could fund a change of tech.



A developer that makes decisions that benefit the majority of the holders? Who would ever want to hold such a coin!



How do you know this? Who are those instaminers, how many of them there were?

1. I would suggest cryptonight if you want anonymity, but anything that doesn't depend on masternodes or a buch of algos mashed together would be an improvement.  ;)

2. Most everyone.  :)

3. Did Evan and Otoh sell their shares? Give me proof of that and I'll take it back. Of course if either, or both, are selling it might explain why your buy support is dropping.   ;D

Otoh has stated that he has bought his coins from the markets, I don't think he is even a miner. If you want to call him a liar go ahead if you don't trust a man's word.

Evan and InternetApe were the dev team when the coin launched. InternetApe dumped his coins when he left a year ago or something and he had the same opportunity to instamine as Evan. That fact alone reduces Evan's theoretical alleged instamine by 50%.

I don't trust anyone involved in DASH. The Bitcoin Devs I trust, the Monero Devs I trust, Anonymint I trust. I may not always agree with them, but I trust that their opinions are honest and the information they provide is thorough. Anyone who knows that developers mined 2 million coins in eight hours, but claim a fair launch, doesn't deserve my trust. If they wanted it, they'd pick better associates.

I don't know how many coins Internetape instamined, but do you have any proof that it was 50% of the coins instamined?

That is the main reason I dumped all of my Dash.

Has Otoh claimed a fair launch? I can't recall seeing that. Also, how could he know 2 million coins were mined by Evan and InternetApe in 8 hours if the total coins mined in that time period was 1.5 million, and there were other people mining as well?



I don't have proof, but since this started by you making a claim that "majority of masternodes are held by those very instaminers" without any proof, I think I can provide the most likely case that they both mined similar amounts.

Illodin the scam sympathiser and defender  ::)


INSTAMINE ALERT

Attention: The developers and insiders scam instamined over 1.5 million DASH in the first 8 hours of launch then lied about it.

SCAM IN PROGRESS


Number of Dash scam instamined in the first 8 hours of launch: 1,567,052 or 27.13% of current coin supply (7.83% of TOTAL  supply that will ever exist)

Number of Dash scam instamined in the first 24 hours of launch: 1,868,604 or 32.36% of current coin supply (9.34% of TOTAL  supply that will ever exist)

1. Re-read what I wrote, "Anyone who knows..." Are you telling me Otoh didn't know that the initial mining was absurdly fast and that Evan claimed it was an accident in order to technically not have a premine? Either he is a poor man's whale who doesn't know the gory details of what he's investing in or he is someone who uses his money to back sham launched coins--either way i'm not trusting that guy based on his word.

 2. The most likely case is that the scam artist are continuing to scam. But thanks for correcting me on 2 million; I'm sure you sleep better at night knowing it was only 1.5 million coins Evan and crew mined in eight hours. It's been so long since I've had to deal with a dasher that I forgot a few of the details. Thankfully there's a thread dedicated to the facts.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

1. I don't know what you're asking me to re-read, probably a language barrier as I was never very good in English. What I understood was you're saying you don't trust Otoh's word because he knows Evan and InternetApe mined 2 million coins in 8 hours, and that he claims it was a fair launch. If you meant something else, could you say it unambiguously, thanks.

2. If you don't accept my proposition for the most likely distribution between the dev team being that Evan and InternetApe mined similar amounts, then what do you think is more plausible and why? 40-60? 80-20?

And yes, that's the thread where I had to go check the numbers myself, I would've thought you would've memorized them by now.

1. At least one person understood what I wrote, so I think the fault lies in your cognitive dissonance when it comes to the reality of Dash's instamine and the BS that is Evan. Accident, please. He's either a fool or a liar. And Otoh is either a fool or practicing greater fool strategy. So yes, I don't take either at their word. I think I made that point clear.

2. I'm not going to try and discern how much Evan personally mined; all I need to know is that he was misleading others as to the launch time, was mining before anyone else had a chance--500,000 coins were mined in the first hour (check that), was offering to buy more coins, cut the distribution to benefit him and the early instaminers, changed the name twice to most likely escape the taint of his instamine, loaded a bunch of algos onto one coin which any cryptographer worth a damn will tell you is piss-poor design and created a shabby way to mix coins that just so happens to reign in more profits for those holding the most coins, which unless you are going to naively niggle over what is 100% verifiable, is most likely him and a few instaminers. You can play dumb with your money. I won't.

In short,  Buyer beware.

this is true, they instamined it big time. later changed reward rules to match their needs.

Good summary. Evan & company are trying to extract as much value from DASH before it collapses. The higher they can push masternode rewards the higher the profits for them (the instaminers) since they own most of the masternodes.  Unfortunately this model is not suitable to attract new community members and will ultimately fail.

Wasn't it shown on the blockchain that a large portion of his coins came directly from the instamine, and then after that was shown he admitted acquiring them that way?

I don't know what is meant by "from the markets" but I would normally interpret that as going on an exchange and placing orders having some or all of them get filled and withdrawing. It doesn't appear from blockchain analysis (unless my recollection above is incorrect) that is what happened.

I suppose in theory "the markets" includes any buyer and seller, but that makes his statement meaningless instead of deceptive.

this was the case:

last block with faulty rules:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?4501.htm    500 coins reward

first fixed:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?4502.htm    56 coins reward

Ignore the Monero haters they are E-gangsters and all they do is cry*p*to about other coins into forums instead of creating and real crypto.
Go to Dash threads and learn by ur self those Monero still did not create any real thing except one thing, yup you guessed it speculating speculating and more speculating! and their PR is to sabotage any ANN thread or any other coin thread.

Look at Smooth he is a Monero dev and he is still crying here instead of doing any crypto they have 30 developers! yet they did not do 1% of what Evan did....CRY*P*TO more Monero developers and haters!!

DASH's new "Megablocks" destroy any remaining resemblance between actual and (predictable) algorithmic emission.

Dumpers with tons of Madoff-nodes simply vote themselves more coins to dump.  Desperate bag-holders double down, trying to keep the price pumped to preserve their cargo cult world of make-believe.

Cointelegraph has no credibility, as they are in league with (or are) the Bytecoin scammers.  Funny how they report on every anon coin except Monero.   :D

1. I think I know what you want to believe and imply, that is pretty clear to me. But the reasoning you decided to base that on this time didn't make sense as both of the premises for it were false afaik. i.e. how can Otoh know 2 million were mined by Evan and InternetApe in the first 8 hours as you claimed when only 1.5 total were mined in that time and there were more miners than just Evan and InternetApe, and I haven't seen him claiming the launch was "fair".

2. Well you have already made claims discerning a lot of stuff when it suits you like "majority of masternodes are held by those very instaminers" and saying Evan is a scammer instaminer so now all of a sudden not caring how much Evan mined seems a bit odd to me.

tl;dr, because the launch wasn't fair.

Yes, many people missed the launch. And the train. That is unfortunate.

Train is taking a shit. Maybe you guys should try changing the name again, that might spark some interest.

The train left the station in January 2014 and arrived at its destination in May 2014. Did you sleep through your stop?

Unless you are pretty sure you can continue to beat this little game of greater fool, find an exit point.

Smooth why don't you and the other 29 Monero developers try and make something out of Monero. Did you know Evan's work is copied by many other coins? X11, Masternodes, Instant transactions..etc.
What did ANYONE copy from you or the other 29 Monero developers? NOTHING. Instead the only thing you and the other 29 DEVELOPERS OF MONERO is COPYing and PASTing.

Did you all know that Monero people used to LOVE Otoh? but he sold all he's Monero because he said there was no Innovation or work been done on Monero beside one thing! Cry*p*to about other coins into forums instead of doing any Crypto work!. Did you all know That Repietilla The Finnish millionaire who hit it big just like Otoh did from owning many Bitcoins before the big run owns more than 10% of All Monero but they still hatin of Otoh because Dash is 5x higher than Monero aka Otoh made the right choice AKA how dare he get rich and we *Monero* DON'T!

Speaking of Rpietilla did you also know that Monero is a Finnish coin with a crippled miner so people also did mine lots of coins...if you know Monero from teh start it had a Finnish FLAG on it's website BUT THEY CLAIM TH MAIN DEVELOPER dissapeared and current ones are brand NEW developers  who has NOTHING  to do with the BAD LAUNCH or START.

Did you know that Monero spread hate all OVER THE FORUMS just look at every single Monero shill in this thread history and you will understand what I am talking about and YES you right including Smooth the Monero developer!

Their PR is basically swarm BTC talk with Monero threads and invade other ANN threads or any thread that is not Monero again check their history. In fact they will also claim that someone like Evan who is been interviewed by all the Crypto WEBSITES, MAGAZINES, RADIO talk shows is invalid but ask them did you be into any of these for some work you have done NOPE NOPE and NOPE, because it's simple they did not add anything to crypto except CRY*P*TO about it into forums!.

https://i.imgur.com/JbplirU.jpg

As for Dash, here's some good advice:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/65/65d0845fda8359160cf97ebd01ee944e1f3f72444440bc91481e2a29280e1a9e.jpg


That, my friend, is sig-worthy Dash stupidity.

Woah, surely you care since you reply to every DASH thread or anything related to Evan. Jealous of he's success and media coverage he gets while all you're SPAM here isn't working. Nor you or the other 29 Monero developers  can compete with he's coding skills but I have to give it to you when it comes to misquoting and copy pasting skills.

I want an exist? why would I say I have 14.5k Dash that is not mine in BTCtalk! I believe in Dash since it offers new things and Dash team keeps updating new things ALWAYS, many tests happening  and even innovation ways for crypto. Yet I want an exist?? keep at it since all you do is cry|p|to about it here into forums this is why I don't buy Monero because you are a very jealous person just like many of Monero trolls here who are no good but selling hot air.

I only mentioned the Finnish flag because you're biggest Monero holders are from Finland Rpietila & Cryptomillionaire. So in Monero side they claim the bad launch happened and new ppl came and took control but that is a lie it is the same ppl.

don't be angry with the 2 dozen Monero trolls here hopping up and down with rage at Dash's latest ground-breaking feature - pure decentralized governance and funding from the blockchain, meaning Dash is now the first digital autonomous corporation :D.  

...because in true Monero style, they recently tried to copy Dash and do the same thing,  but the furthest they got was adding a board on their forum ;)  https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required (https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required)

Until  Monero jams a bunch of algos together (maybe they'll do 12 and call it Super X-12!), throws in a novelty toy and calls it a privacy solution, calls low confirmations insta-x-marks-the-spot-you-should-have-used-more-confirmations and renames the coin twice (stealing the name of the real dash from their community), I don't think you can claim Monero is following xcoin's shadow.

Monero: building the coin, before they offer bells and whistles. Fairly launched. The best privacy solution available. Dash can't claim any of those things.

Monero and Dash are both worthless bagholder coins.

Name 10 shops in real life were you are able to pay with either on of them.
You can't!  ;D

Technically you can use shapeshift (or xmr.to with Monero) with dash and moneroj to pay anywhere that you can with bitcoin. As to your point that there aren't places to spend Monero or Dash without those types of services, I'd say that i always viewed moneroj as a store of wealth and that the consumer side would expand once the official GUI was released and marketing efforts were made in earnest by the community and developers. If that makes me a bagholder, then I'm a bagholder.  ;)

edit: I wasn't being a gentleman, deleted

Lovely thread. Nice and friendly  :)

you're right. A friendly match would be much more enjoyable. Editing post.

1. Use shapeshift in other words the coin is useless.
2. Coin can not be used so is a store of wealth. OMFG!!!! You could also collect shells on the beach!
3. Both coins are ponzi schemes.

"Monero: Building the coin"

No mention of Bytecoin?  That's weird, because looking at your code, it's mostly Bytecoin with the copyright messages stripped out...

Bytecoin 2014: https://github.com/fanye398/bytecoin/blob/master/src/wallet/wallet2.cpp

https://i.imgur.com/JLlt68q.png

Monero 2015:

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/blob/master/src/wallet/wallet2.cpp

https://i.imgur.com/k0ogP8T.png

Let's look at some key functions:

Monero wallet handling new block:

https://i.imgur.com/OQRGNGA.png

Bytecoin wallet handling new block:

https://i.imgur.com/SJfP6qY.png

The main difference is you cut and paste the Bytecoin copyright message out of the file lol ;)

Processing new transactions:

Monero:

https://i.imgur.com/0XZfm1v.png

Bytecoin:

https://i.imgur.com/ri91ew9.png

So copyright violation is the first problem, but bigger question, why the smoke and mirrors show to hide that it's Bytecoin code, does this make it easier to pump something to noobs that's 'written from scratch'? ;)

This also explains why the one of the first jobs Monero dev's are trying to outsource 1 year later, is documenting the Bytecoin source code to help them understand it better ;)  https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/2373/documentation-and-cleanup-of-source-code

"Monero: Fair launch"

Weird that you forgot to mention Monero's scam miner that let the developers mine faster than everyone else:

http://da-data.blogspot.de/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11222015#msg11222015

You're not the only one who things it's fair to do that, Smooth also feels lauching deliberately crippled miners means Monero launch was fair


So, back to the topic...Dash, a coin with real original features and code, not stolen and passed off as their own...and just made the first DAC in human history...no wonder it makes so many of the Monero E-Gangsters mad ;)

If you hold any Monero or Dash I would cash them out really fast because there is no future.
Cash out while you can because the price keeps on dropping.

Dash just successfully innovated and launched the first pure-decentralized way to manage the currency's future and fund development and the other tasks that need to be done.   That means Dash network is now an autonomous entity that runs itself, the first of it's kind anywhere in the world.  Some people think this is history in the making...I guess if the FUD-driven price on a few exchanges in the backstreets of the Alt coin grotto puts you off, maybe you should sell your Dash and provide some liquidity, i'm sure the smart people are looking ahead a bit ;)

1 & 2. You left out the second part of my statement (which i bolded for your convenience). As long as I can trade moneroj, I can use it as a store of wealth. It doesn't need to be consumer friendly to meet this criteria--I also can't spend Google stock or gold bonds anywhere. But this doesn't mean that I don't think that Monero will see business adoption once the official enterprise level GUI is released--this is exactly what i think will happen--sorry you don't agree.

3. Did you borrow that from r/buttcoin and not see the irony?

1 & 2. You left out the second part of my statement (which i bolded for your convenience). As long as I can trade moneroj, I can use it as a store of wealth. It doesn't need to be consumer friendly to meet this criteria--I also can't spend Google stock or gold bonds anywhere. But this doesn't mean that I don't think that Monero will see business adoption once the official enterprise level GUI is released--this is exactly what i think will happen--sorry you don't agree.

3. Did you borrow that from r/buttcoin and not see the irony?  ;)
[/quote]


CryptoCURRENCY you point is invalid move along

So Monero is 'CryptoStoreofWealth' ROFL you are digging it deeper and deeper.
Hello Bank, hello Pawnshop I would like to cash out my Monero. ;D ;D ;D
Where do you live under a rock?

Funny thing, Smart people keeping on to their Dash while the price keeps going down.
No development that can be mentioned as incredible, community growing thinner and thinner.
Sell your Monero and Dash, thank me later  ;)

Selling Dash now would be like selling your angel shares in Google back in 1998...but go ahead...some of us are buying ;)

Click Poliniex, hit sell, trade for another crypto. You can also insert shapeshift and XMR.TO into this scenario. Or arrange an OTC trade with one of the community.

Click Crypto Kingdom and you'll see one of my many virtual properties, but sorry, no rocks. I guess you could build a rock like mansion if you really wanted to.

No holding on to your Dash and Monero would be the same as holding on to you Enron shares.

OMG you really made me laugh comparing Dash with Google.
Seriously you need a reality check.

Well that sounds like something the average Joe is waiting for.
Hey Joe so you click on Polinex and than hit sell, trade for another or also insert....(Joe already took some money out of his wallet and bought himself a nice cold glass of beer)

Guldencoin and Digibyte are going to surpass Monero and Dash mark my words.

What did you say?
Buy clothes, food, gold, silver, drones, pay bills, etc etc with Guldencoin and Digibyte.
Well yeah offcourse you can because they are CRYPTOCURRENCIES

At the moment, I can use XMR.TO and shapeshift with Monero to make my transactions more secure and private than they were with a mixer and BTC, I see value in that. If you don't, that's fine, but i believe that Monero's consumer adoption prospects grow by an order of magnitude once testing stops and the official enterprise level GUI is released. Until then it provides a way to keep your wealth private. I believe this is a valuable tool for keeping your finances private, I'm sorry if you don't feel that way. Good luck with your investments--I hope there is room in the alt section for all fairly launched coins that are working on solving real problems with quality cryptography. I'm only familiar with privacy coins, so maybe i'll check out the coins you mentioned.

I only check coins that can be used as a real currency.
Shame that most coins don't focus on that, would have given Dash a real edge together with it's privacy.

Google innovated a lot of cool tech, but they never innovated a purely decentralized autonomous corporation - Dash just did.

All these alt coins pushing websites bolted on to their coins and saying it gives them value - decentralization is the key to value in crypto currencies, the most decentralized currency in the world is now - Dash.

What you are saying makes no sense and could also me implied for seashells.
Seashells the most decentralized currency in the world.

I don't think we're on the same page.  But good luck with your investments :D

We agree to disagree.  ;)  When there are stores that accept Dash I might take a look at the coin again until then I go with Guldencoin and Digibyte to buy stuff with.

Please tell us what portion of the code in Dash is ripped off from Bitcoin?

All these discussions about "features" and "innovation" in Dash ignore the fact that below the surface the vast majority of the functionality and code is just a Bitcoin copy.

Dash and idea of masternodes is terrible. The idea that I have to trust some strengers running masternodes controlling my privacy and aninimity is rubbish. And if I want to have my own musternode, I have to pay for it? This is stupid. I may just trust and pay bitcoin mixing services.

Anonimity and privacy should be obtained without any third parties. The idea of masternodes is oposite to what decentrallization mean. ANd the 1000 DASH fee is only blocking more poeple running musternodes, and leaving only those who can affort it anyway. As far as I am concerned, all masternodes can be run by NSA. Because why wouldnt they, if the only way to have privcacy and anonimity with dash is to use masternodes. Regular dash users cant afford it.

Avoid any centralization and pay-walls if you care about privacy and aninimity. If you dont care about these, than just use bitcoin or litecoin.

Holding Dash for the long run.........

It is more like a Litecoin copy, including my favorite the fixed blocksize limit.

Hi you can spend Dash directly on the following places there might be changes this was last updated in August. Good luck with your projects.

Donations:
Torservers.net www.torservers.net/donate.html

VPS / Webpages Servers:
NOC Zone https://noczone.com
qHoster http://www.qhoster.com/vps.html
CYRUSERV cyruservvvklto2l.onion (Onion Hosting Service)

VPN:
VikingVPN https://vikingvpn.com
BolehVPN https://bolehvpn.net
QHoster http://www.qhoster.com
TorGuard https://torguard.net
LibertyVPN http://libertyvps.net
MultiVPN http://multi-vpn.co.uk/

Email Provider:
Claws-Mail http://www.claws-mail.org

Mining / Hardware/ Electronics:
Zeusminer https://zeusminer.com
Genesis Mining https://www.genesis-mining.com/

3D Printer:
ISG3D http://www.isg3d.com

Online Casino:
DirectBet www.DirectBet.eu/
Mirabeaux www.mirabeaux.com
FortuneJack https://fortunejack.com/
SatochiBet https://satoshibet.com
BitDice www.bitdice.me
CryptoGames www.crypto-games.net

Lottery:
TAABL http://taabl.net

Precious Metals:
Coaex https://www.coaex.com
Amagi Metals http://www.amagimetals.com
Bitgild http://www.bitgild.com
Micro Precious Metals http://www.micropreciousmetals.cf

Gaming:
Nestorgames http://www.nestorgames.com/#shopextd
Retro Towers http://www.retrotowers.co.uk
Gamekeys https://key4co.in
GamerzHeat http://gamerzheat.com

Auction + Market:
Noobie www.noobie.io

Giftcards:
Crypto de Change http://www.cryptodechange.com
Premiumgiftcards https://premiumgiftcards.com
CryptoCrads http://cryptocards.nl

WorldPress Plugin:
GoUrl.io https://gourl.io/bitcoin-promotion-wordpress-themes.html

Tweets:
Shout4coin http://shout4coin.com

Tipping for Hits:
LinkWarz http://linkwarz.com

General Shopping (T-Shirts/ Stickers/Security/...):
51 Attack http://www.51attack.com
Bitstickers http://bitstickers.net
Revolutionary Supplies https://revolutionarysupplies.com
Yipptee http://www.yipptee.com
BitLasers http://bitlasers.com
DeMadera http://demadera.nl
PexPeppers (HotSauce) https://www.pexpeppers.com

General Shopping (Smoke Gear/ Pipes/ Vapo/..)
Pipe Shop http://btcpipeshop.com
VapoCrypto http://www.vaporcrypt.com

Seeds:
BitcoinSeedStore http://www.bitcoinseedstore.com

New Age:
HarmonyVibe http://www.harmonyvibe.com/nowa-stronka/

General Shopping (Wine / Food):
Misconduct Wine Company www.misconductwineco.com
CoinWineStore http://coinwinestore.com/en/
JaysJerkyAndGoodies http://jaysjerkyandgoodies.auctivacommerce.com
Party Cakes4u (UK)
http://www.partycakes4u.co.uk/
(in the notes box at checkout please request an invoice to be sent to there email address for the crypto currency of there choice)

Pet Shopping:
CryptoPet
http://cryptopet.com/

Construction/ Insulation:
De Wa Bo www.dewabo.net

General Shopping (Smart Drugs/ Nutritious/ Supplements):
Healthiverse: http://healthiverse.net
eJuiceGenius http://www.ejuicegenius.com

General Shopping (House/ Garden):
Above All House Plants http://www.aboveallhouseplans.com
The Reef Shop http://www.thereefshop.com.au

Topographic Mapping Services:
Angra dos Reis, RJ www.pmgtopografia.com.br

Restaurant:
The Kitchen www.thekitchen-mwco.com

Digital Design Agency:
ISFXmedia http://isfx.media

Photographer (Assignments + Stock Image Sales):
Philipp Engelhorn www.philippengelhorn.com

Lawyer (Brazil):
Ivan Liborio http://www.liborio.adv.br

Topless/ Narked Maid Service:
Stripped Clean http://stripped-clean.com


Edit: Of course, you can also use instant conversion services like Shapeshift or Coinnector

Hi Artic, Dash was ported to Bitcoin Core since v11.  We have a solution for scalability that will be presented soon.  Dash is just trying to explore solutions to crypto issues, time will tell if they work out or not.  I really think both Dash and Monero can be succesful, I dont even think they compete. Monero is a good project. We are just trying to do good work and hopefully we can bring value to our users.

Good at least someone other than Monero is actualy dealing with long term scalability issue. By the way I am also of the opinion that there will be more than one successful coin; however dealing with the long term scalability issue is a must. If Dash deals with this issue then it will be a player.

shapeshift and xmr.to are not a solution to the problem of not being able to use dash and monero directly. In this asspect, both coins are useless. Simply becuase using a third party to use any coin, especially when the coin aims atprivacy and aninimity, is far from perfect. If I would like to use a third party service to  pay privattly, I could just use any bitcoin mixing service. There is absolutly no need for monero and dash, if you cant shop with them privetly without any third parties involved.

The only advantage of monero over dash in this asspect is that monero can do mixing without any masternodes. So no third parties are involved in the mixing process.

Has Dash fixed the problem that I can get someones address and then look at how much dash they have in that address? I mean really. Sure, have fun with your DACs, but IMO thats creeping into scope bloat and on top of that the DACs are built on the masternode network, aye? So who *really* controls what gets funded?

ALL NODES ARE EQUAL. ALL NODES ARE ONE. ALL GLORY TO THE GREAT RNG IN THE SKY!


Ohhhmmmmmm

Smooth covered the benefit of XMR.TO over a bitcoin mixer here, but you're still missing the usefulness of using monero as a private store of wealth--though I agree monero will be even more useful when adoption grows.


*We need to create a library of Monero Developer's responses to the most common misunderstandings about Monero. Of course this won't help anyone with short term memory loss.  ;)

Virtually all Litecoin code and functionality is also ripped off from Bitcoin so there is not really a difference.

It does appear they rebased Dash on a newer Bitcoin release though, so what Minotaur26 said about it no longer being a modified Litecoin fork appears correct for the current code, though historically that's how it was developed.

I think update v12 was a great improvement with the decentralised budgetting system implemented and the Bitcoin updates integrated. We are also getting hints from the dev-team that update v13 is gonna be huge and will be instrumental into fixing all of Bitcoin's shortcomings (mainly fungability, decentralised anonymity and the ability to do fast micro payments are areas where bitcoin has seriously dropped the ball and which Dash has either adressed already or will be improving upon greatly with next update v13).

Make no mistake, Dash is here to compete with Bitcoin directly and time will tell if they will be successfull or not..

In the mean time i would like to emphasize to anyone reading this thread to keep an open mind about any cryptocurrency they come across and do some investigating work of their own as a lof of fud is spread by people who either have a conflict of interests or simply have a different agenda. Questions any serious investor should ask themself are :

- what kind of roadmap is out there for the cryptocurrency i'm interested in ?
- what kind of progress has been made towards reaching the goals in that roadmap ?
- what kind of community am i dealing with ? On how many forums / media channels are they represented ?
- what kind of dev-team am i dealing with ? Are its dev-team members publicly known or are they totally anonymous ?
- how small or large is that dev-team ? what kind of skills does the dev-team have at coding and what kind of
  track record do they have with regards to bug squashing ?
- how many products and / or services can be bought with the cryptocurrency in question ?
- in what ways can one profit or get rewards from the cryptocurrency in question ? can one only obtain miner rewards
  or are there other kind of rewards that could be interesting to look into ?

Dash came to my attention when it was at its peak at the time (somewhere 2014) and i have been investing in it each month ever since, slowly building up the number of masternodes i own .. and it has been profitable to me as my lower price buys have started to outway my higher price buys by now. Its just US dollar wise that i'm still running negative but thats with pretty much every crypto currency out there unless you as newcomer entered this market just now.

At the moment you have to trust that no one is controlling 99%+ or something of the masternodes spread across the globe in different countries to be able to follow the mixing process. And yes, in the long term that is not ideal. But development is not over, eventually masternodes won't be able to link inputs to outputs i.e. they will be effectively "blinded" (I think Evan mentioned this is coming in V13), so then you don't have to trust even that 99%+ case not happening.

That is one advantage off-chain anonymity has, you can keep improving it and if later a weakness is found, the old transactions are not compromised as they are not on the chain e.g. if DASH takes off and in 5 years NSA gets interested and takes over all the masternodes and assuming for some reason masternode blinding is not implemented by then, they couldn't follow the mixes happened in the past because they aren't on the chain for them to read.

PS. As far as I am concerned, your computer can be run by NSA. ;)

Incorrect. One round of darksend uses a single masternode. If that masternode is compromised then that round is worthless. You can do multiple rounds, which takes a lot of time and adds resource usage (and probably direct cost in terms of fees, but I'm not really sure what Dash does with fees), and if some of those masternodes used by the multiple rounds are not compromised, then you have some real privacy, but it may not be much. (One round of darksend doesn't really obscure things that much on the blockchain, and if N-1 of the masternodes that you happened to use are compromised, that's all you end up with.)


Now you have the problem that these same protocols (e.g coinshuffle) can be used directly on Bitcoin. The idea of darksend was to provide a safe(r) way to do coinjoin with some protection from the intermediaries being Sybil attacked by someone wanting to spy (where 99% of the masternodes could be compromised if there were no cost to creating more of them). I doubt whether the economics of it actually work effectively, as I've stated elsewhere, but that's another story. In any case, with the intermediaries being oblivious using blinded coinjoin or coinshuffle, there is no longer such a risk, you can just rendezvous on any communications channel (joinmarket uses IRC, but that is just one example). So the whole thing becomes even more pointless.

Finally none of these systems offer useful Sybil protection against other users (only, possibly, against Sybil masternodes). When you darksend you are mixing only with other users who are darksending at the same time. If all or most of those are an attacker, you are screwed, blinding or no blinding. Again you are likely worse off here than something built on Bitcoin, simply because Bitcoin has far more users, which raises the cost of such a Sybil attack (it is still problem there though).

Yes, one round is probably something like using mixin 1 in Monero. Anyone who actually wants to maintain some privacy is using values way higher.



Could you open up this some more I'm not sure I follow.



The DASH mixing has a fee, isn't that useful Sybil protection? An attacker can keep doing that only for so long before his resources are exhausted.

There is no reason you need designated masternodes with 1000 Dash collateral with e.g. coinshuffle. The point of that is to deter bad actors from flooding the system with hostile masternodes. But since these methods give other participants or intermediaries no useful information, this doesn't matter. You can post the whole interchange in a public place and it is still secure.

But still you have to trust some external masternodes, run by someone. What worries me most is that I cant join them. 1000 dash is too expensive. I dont understand why there is paywall? For me, logical would be that everyone can run masternode for free. Therefore,  there would be more masternodes, thus, more decentralization and security. Why would dash want to limit number of masternodes, making it de-facto less decentralized?

I read on dash website that 1000 dash fee is for security reasons, so that attackers cant "buy" many masternodes. If so, why not make it 10000 or 1 milion dash? Then there would be only one or two masternodes, super secure, run by one or two people that are super "trust worthy"? For me, it seems strange to limit number of masternodes by having a pay-wall. I dont undersant this logic. And I'm sure that many privacy oriented people, would also question this.

p.s.
And yes, my computer may be monitored by nsa, like most computers outhere anyway :-( You can limit the risk of being spyed on by using proper software, but you still dont know what lurks in the hardware :-(

Yes but since there is full simultaneity the attacker only needs to do that during the time period of interest. It may be that for whatever reasons of my own, I'm interesting in attacking today's transactions but not tomorrows or next years (necessarily). That has a finite cost (and probably not very high in practice).

Thanks. There are other aspects to it as well though. It's a way to reward full nodes and run services on top of it, for example InstantX. It's a way for holders to earn money in exchange for helping the network. Whether it will evolve into a network where masternodes are not needed anymore in the future, I don't know, it's possible?

Also, without a collateral, you could launch millions of mixing nodes that would just stall the process effectively DoS'ing the mixing process. Unless you mean a trusted party would maintain a node or a set of nodes (which could then be easier DoS'ed)?

The DASH mixing is "pre-mixing", i.e. you can mix your coins today, and spend them privately next month. So when there is this period of interest, the transactions happening could be coins mixed a year ago.

Yes it could, or it could not. It depends. In particular you can't possibly have mixed the coins last year if you just received them. So that puts a bound on it if a particular "target" is of interest.

Heuristic wallet could detect when there are 2x more mixing happening in the network than usual (just like it could detect when 50%+ of the masternodes are offline) and warn the user (or do this automatically) that the coins should be mixed again at a later date. Just having this kind of protection in the wallet would deter someone from attempting such an attack, so it probably wouldn't even have to be used ever. So the downside of the feature that it could hinder usability for the end user is a moot point.

That sounds pretty unworkable given normal fluctuations in honest usage (or at least not user friendly and introducing even more delays into mixing that I'm told is already pretty slow), and it also introduces an easy denial-of-service attack, but who knows maybe something like that could be made to work. It is hard to say without a specific proposal and probably field testing.

Or you could just use Bitcoin which has vastly more usage to begin with.