Bitcoin Forum

Since Tom is refusing to actually make the bet he himself proposed between us, I am offering up a guarantee of 1000 BTC to charity (I will take suggestions on which charity to donate this to) if BFL does not meet it's power claims within 10% - meaning if BFL's power consumption is more than 66w for a Single SC, we lose the "bet."

Now, I ask if Tom is willing to step up and back the winning side.  He is 100% confident that we will not meet our power claims (which is the genesis of the failed bet), and as such I ask that he pony up 1000 BTC to the same charity if we do make our power claims. 

So there it is:  Tom is confident that we won't make our power claims, I am confident that we will.  I am willing to put up 1000 BTC to show my confidence in BFL products.  Is Tom confident enough to do the same or is he just blowing hot air?

I'm confused. If the Single uses more than 66W, you pay 1000BTC to charity. If it does use less than 66W, then Tome (or someone else who enters the bet against you) pays 1000BTC to charity? Or do you pay to each other?

As far as I understood the one who loses pays to the charity.

Inaba and Tom: don't forget to use escrow  ;)

Tom offered a bet and you refused it.

"Shit, I just trolled myself out of 1,000BTC. How can I get them back?"

Yes, escrow.

Also I'm not sure if Tom was trying to say Bfl was lying. It was more that specs are not being released because software estimates can be way off. Eg Bfl single.

Subscribed anyway! Good cause is awesome. Great offer inaba. If Tom has the btc to spare he may accept regardless.

Let's take a look at exactly what Tom said.


I have bolded the part where Tom claims that BFL will not meet their power estimates.

Tom has also claimed to have a working prototype working so I would assume that their power estimates should be pretty concrete. But what do I know, I'm just a miner.

EDIT:

Here is the original quote of Tom saying he has a prototype. I don't want anyone thinking I'm making this stuff up.

Prototypes are never accurate. I don't think an ASIC prototype would initially aim for power efficiency.
But yes, keep dreaming is strong words, but they appear to be based on BFL estimating via software.

I look forward to a charity receiving some $.

In fact I would like to nominate my home town, which I had to leave after we had some severe earthquakes that destroyed the city.

http://christchurchappealtrust.org.nz/
This charity was set up by the New Zealand Prime Minister.

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1298845632/833/4712833_600x400.jpg
Much of the CBD buildings lost there frontages. My home was fine, my parents lost theirs and had to live with me for 3 months. FEEL MY PAIN! ;)

There is a US-NZ tax free way to donate through the US.
http://www.americanfriendsofchristchurch.org/ways-to-give.html

The EQ destroyed the city, and liquefaction (due to city being built on a swamp..duh) destroyed the eastern suburbs. Most frightening thing ever in my life. I helped set up the temporary civil defence communications at my workplace during the quakes, but 5 months later I met a lady in another city (due to there being nothing to do in Chch anymore) and moved to be with her.

The CBD now looks like a vacant lot.

I would nominate Gmaxwell as escrow assuming he is agreeable to it.  Yes, I propose the loser pays the 1000 BTC to charity.

St. Judes  hospital if your going to donate. Help the kids out!

May I suggest the charity be smaller than the size of the likes of St. Judes. I have nothing against them, but the http://christchurchappealtrust.org.nz/ seems a better fit.

Speaking of charities, Josh. I'm upping my bit with you, of which you don't have to put anything up, to $200 USD, instead of the original $100 USD. I did read that you're having misgivings about EFF, so feel free to change your mind when the time comes where I hopefully have to pay out.

Later, bro.

~Bruno K~

I found this the other day www.bitcoinchurch.org (http://www.bitcoinchurch.org)

That's great, Phinnaeus!  My only beef with EFF is their abandonment of Bitcoin, so I have to assess if that's enough to put them out of the running.  But if another worthy charity is put forth, I am certainly open to consider it.  

can we give a suggestion on the charities to donate to if the bet is lost which I doubt will happen.

So I've brought facts to this thread and you want to call me names.....

Seems like you're handling yourself and your comments with dignity and respect.

So... Walk the plank or keelhaul? :P

Is making a piratelike win/win bet (for BFL) a good idea now, considering the precedent?

Can Vandroiy take the bet, if interested? I hear he's got some cash on hand.

My orginization crawfish for kids which can be searched in trademarkings donates 100% of all proceeds to Texas adaptive Aquatics.

Texas adaptive aquatics helps kids and adults who are para and quadrapalegic to be able to enjoy water sports many have been injured in either accidents and unfortunantly war. I have been supporting them since I have thought of the idea of using my buiz to try to do some good.

if anything I would ask is keep away from the main stream orginizations, when I first started CFK  i tried to go to make a wish foundation and another that craig biggio has, in order for me to donate to these orginiaztions in order to use thier name in radio ads that was going to be playing from 94.5 the buzz who was also donating the airtime along with big woodrows trying to advertise we had to gaurantee a mininum of a 5k donation, i felt that was a little selfish to demand such a high ammount for a gauranteed donation.. So if anything I ask please find a smaller orginiation that really desrves the money.

if interested in helping TAAsports there site is www.taasports.org

Interesting bet. I wonder what Tom's reaction will be.

How do you react to a troll trolling you and your company?

Use some of it to sponsor someone on http://www.extra-life.org/

Can't wait to see the outcome in 2+ weeks....maybe 8)

St. Judes is good.

Another two I could suggest are the American Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org/) and The Water Project (http://thewaterproject.org/)

Regarding power/noise, I hear from the following article that you're decreasing the speed of the chips to make it "quiet."  I'm not sure why you would do that as most of your customers are going to be putting this in a server room, closet, basement or other area where they currently have motherboards with video cards hanging out of them that sound like jet engines and generate more heat than a jet engine.

http://bitcoinmagazine.net/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

Are you planning on releasing a firmware that spins the fan at 85% speed and runs the chips at the maximum speed that's safe to keep the temps under control?  I really hope so - not sure why I'd want to pay good money to make sure my mining operation is "quiet enough."  Follow-up question: if said firmware was released, what would the power usage and GH/s do?

http://www.coregroup.org/storage/images/partner-logos/food-for-the-hungry.jpg
Food for the Hungry: http://fh.org/

Everyone needs to eat. $10k+ goes a long way.

I fail to see how either Tom Cablepair or Inaba can really believe that all this school playground behaviour is any good for either of their organizations.

Has anyone noticed how reputable businesses could easily play this ridiculous game of PR one-up-man-ship, and yet by and large don't do it? Because it makes them look bad? Even when they do engage in this sort of thing, they at least have the sense to dress it up in a bogus intellectual property lawsuit.

You two appear like a pair of WWE wrestlers in a pre-match taunting session (to me, anyway)

+1
This whole thing is fucking retarded.
Inaba trolled the bASIC thread, Tom challenged him over BFL's power figures, Inaba turned the bet down because Tom wouldn't publish his own power figures at this point, now it's descended into this shitstorm.
It's totally rediculous, both companies should just focus on getting their (already delayed in the case of BFL) products to market.

Sh*t just got real!  :o

I went to Ethiopia last year, and we worked with A Child's Right (http://splash.org/achildsright), which is now called Splash. They focus on water filtration, as it's a very cost effective to install and maintain clean drinking water.

We also worked with The Selamta Family Project (http://www.selamtafamilyproject.org/), one of the most successful orphanage family-home systems in Ethiopia. They do some awesome work there.

I'm actually not able to go back this year, but my sister has an opportunity to go there, and she'll be meeting with all the great people I met.

My brother is also heavily involved with Not For Sale (http://www.notforsalecampaign.org), a highly effective anti-slavery and anti-sex trafficking organization.

There's all kinds of good stuff going on in with those 3 organizations. Seriously, check them out.

Those are very nice charities,with noble intentions....but how about giving some money to our US kids that are also deserving.Maybe Big Brothers/Sisters or something.Or some education fund to help parentless kids.

Not trying to sound like a jerk either,but I couldn't think of another way to word it,sorry  :-[

BFL offers 1000 BTC back up on power claims
is a confusing topic
you said bfl was trying not to post on this forum or something - to see their own forum...

is it BFL or Inaba?
If the former wouldn't the BFL_Josh user be more appropriate? If the latter: why the misleading topic subject?

Please clarify for those of us losing the distinction between the Inaba and BFL_Josh accounts.
thanks

I totally get what you're saying. I also work with Jr and Sr high students in my local town, and there are some great kids in there. I just don't know much about the Big Brother/Sister organization to make a judgement. However, there are also plenty of organization that deal with sex trafficking here in the US (yes, it does happen here). It's basically forced prostitution. Check out Not For Sale, International Justice Mission, and the Polaris Project. Even Obama made a speech just last month about efforts by the US to put a stop to this.

Sorry if I'm coming on lil strong, but this is something that's very important to me, my family, my friends, and my church. We throw a shit-ton of money and support toward whoever we think can do the best job.

I didn't know there was a distinction...

I have a feeling another scammer tag is gonna be handed out soon =P

Though I see your point, it is sad that when people pay sharks so much money, people (like you?) think that suddenly makes something respectable.

I certainly have no respect for such sharks so I cannot see how them doing something can add any respect at all to it ...

It's cool  8)

Never worked with BB either,just tossed it out there,so to speak.I did do community service for ARC (Association for Retarded Citizens).They are really amazing,working full time jobs & trying to just get along like normal folks  8)

Maybe split the donation between some local orphanages (in Kansas or anywhere here in the states) so the kids can have a decent christmas.Or is there an charity that runs orphanages on a small scale ??

Just thinkin out loud  ;)

I have to say, this is terrible.

Not only did Inaba turn a hit at Tom on power figures, now he is turning around and making it seem like it was his bet to Tom. (instead of the otherwa around)...It was the other way around.


To top it off....hes now opened a thread and is now making it seem as if Charities will "win out" of this skirmish of words and bitcoin bets....people are all riled up over which charity is more deserving....

You guys are being played with like toys....

I don't know about you, but I am personally offended at this tactic. I understand Psychological games...but this game is one gone way too far. I'd ask for Mod intervention but I don't know if they would even bother with this mess.

Purpose	Donation amount
AFOC: Hardship & Relief Reference: 010	$100.00 USD

I specified that it was donated on behalf of scary-eyed batman, so if they don't thank you, punch them in the nuts.

IIRC, most western countries have moved away from a traditional "orphanage" and have adopted something similar to our Foster Care system.

+10

Now that is the REAL spirit of charity.

All the more to stay away from BFL. 

+1

If the Bet occurs between Tom and Josh, may I propose (or second) another user suggestion : http://thewaterproject.org/ (http://thewaterproject.org/)

Before eating and shelter, water needs are more urgent, 3 days without water = dead !

I'd love to see that bet come true, I dont care about BFL bAsic Avalon asic power usage, any asic miner i'll have, I'll enjoy, sounds and power usage are very secondary to me.

But I think that if someone have 1000 BTC to spare on a bet, this kind of ressources could help a lot of kids/peoples.. Maybe one of the kid that will be saved, will be the next Einstein or Ghandi or ..!

my 2 satoshi !

This thread is tantamount to grandstanding on a soap box over an offer that (for absolutely sure) the other party won't ever accept. Even rejected before the thread was created this offer was already rejected.

http://i49.tinypic.com/105pnaq.jpg

It is like mounting a false motive through a thread over "a bet" you already know the other person has very clearly stated they have already rejected.

Bringing up the "Charity" issue and having members discuss/debate "to whom" the spoils of this bet should go to.....when the proposed donor knows it will never even become a bet is....

I best say no more. I don't like trash talk.

You're quite right; these patent trolls fighting each other over IP rights to something that actually belongs to nobody does nothing for their reputations either. I'm talking about the perception of the average person towards these things, not my own.

No idea is original, the laws of nature/logic/physics already permit everything that's possible. Humans never "invented" anything, they simply observe natural phenomena and exploit those phenomena. Humans cannot make the impossible possible simply by conceiving it.

Wow mate that is absolutely awesome! Thanks :D.
Hard to say thank you enough.

Wait.. wut?

Subject line says: "BFL offers 1000 BTC back up on power claims"
Is BFL backing this bet?
You are posting as Inaba.  I thought the bet was between you and Tom, not between BFL and Tom.
Shouldn't you be posting as BFL_Josh?

Na, I knew Tom would chicken out and run back into his hole, so it was largely irrelevant as far as Tom goes.  I'm offering 1000 BTC on behalf of BFL regardless of what Tom does.  I never expected Tom to honor the intent of his bet anyway (Simply because he had no intention of going through with it from the start), so it was largely altruistic on my part to begin with, but only in so far as I don't think I will have to pay up and I know Tom would... but I'm more than willing to escrow the amount until such time as is required.

So as it stands now, if you meet your power guidelines (<66W), you do nothing. If you don't meet your power estimates (>66W), you donate 1000BTC to charity. Is that it?

Why not forget the power issue and bet when BFL will actually ship?  Or is that a step too far?

Would you be willing to make a bet with the community that x number of units will be shipped by some particular date and that the units will function at the specified power claims?

Make a Wish Foundation?

If the Single SC uses more than 66 Watts or if it uses less than 54 Watts then that will also be 10% off and the Charity wins.

Now can't you change the power consumption by changing the load.  So the Single SC will use no power when it is off.  Probably use less than 54 Watts when hashing at half speed.  So it is easy for the bet to pay off.  Or you need to be more specific about the condition that will trigger a Charity payoff.

66 watts DC, or 66 watts AC?

thank you for the clarification - Subject line says: "BFL offers 1000 BTC back up on power claims" is misleading :(

I asked that on the BFL forums,it will be from the wall=120 volt  ;)

Ooo...now that's a ballzy bet on efficiency.

I got a GREAT idea, BFL take 500 BTC, the other company pony up 500 BTC and pool it, I say fuck the power claims I really dont care and never really have bet off or what ever and both companies donate it to a charitable orginization in both names and shake hands and make the best of it and each go thier way and do thier thing and in the end even with all the hupla both companies done something good TOGETHER.

But hey i'm no real voice,

That depends on where you live.  For me- from the wall = 240 V

OOO,higher voltage=less wattage :o  

BFL may get less than 60 watts yet..........over in europe  :D

I know it'll almost be the same in reality.

W=A*V

In Europe the wattage will be the same.

+2

+3

So I guess he's not interested in my bet.   :'(

Last I checked in Spain we got 220V, not 240. Not that it makes a big difference though.

As long as the efficiency of the power supply brick doesn't change with voltage range, the power ("wattage") will be the same no matter the operating AC voltage. From what I've heard the cheap-ish power supplies that they use currently aren't incredibly efficient as it is, so that is actually working against them with this bet.

I hear this all the time, and i believe it's misleading. The EFF didn't abandon Bitcoin, they ensured that if there was a legal dispute around BitCoin that they would have standing as something other than a co-defendant. It's pretty cut and dried that they did the right thing for us in the long run by ensuring we can call on them if needed.

Once the law is clear, I don't think they will have any problem turning it back on. Until they they are returning funds to the community through the bitcoin faucet.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/06/eff-and-bitcoin

Also, while I think that all the charities mentioned look very deserving, wouldn't it be a good idea donate that 1000BTC to a BitCoin related organization like the BitCoin Foundation? or DevCoin Bounties? Something to help propel the community forward by reinvestment.

Ok, I can buy into that they don't want to be a co-defendant and that's all well and good.  But the link you posted, which is the one I base my opinion off of reads very differently.  For example:

This is their job.  They are suppose to figure out the complex legal issues for these sorts of things.

But as I said, I can buy into it for future purposes.  But they way they've worded all their stances on Bitcoin has turned a number of other organizations off to Bitcoin.  I think EFF has handled the whole situation poorly and made no effort to correct it.  Is that enough to withhold donations?  I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.

Nvidia does it all the time.

And they're not the only ones. Have you even SEEN a presidential debate in the US recently?

Yes, I feel the intense embarrassment that the candidates should be feeling whenever I witness these farcical debates. How people can't recognise such blatant fakery in front of their own two eyes just amazes me.

By the way, did BFL management ever approve the 1000BTC bet?

That is like 12,000 dollars. Do they [BFL management] have the luxury of throwing around that kind of money on a silly bet? Or was this an employee decision?

They've collected millions of dollars in pre-orders. They can afford to throw around $12k on something that will encourage more sales. :)

It's only 12 pre-orders

+4

I believe that cablepair was proffering his own personal funds to cover his stake. Inaba never get as far as confirming whether or not he would be using his money or BFL (customer's) money, although he implied that the company would be putting up the stake in his "BFL offers 1000 BTC back up on power claims" thread.


It's not good form for people that are soliciting pre-order money for a product that hasn't even finished the design work, let alone produced any, to then start gambling with large sums of money, in a public arena, as a way of convincing customers that their product is superior and/or the company's product claims to be more trustworthy. It has convinced me of neither of those things, it just looks reckless and ill-considered, and not very encouraging to anyone wondering which of these people to trust (and trust in their ability to deliver is vastly the most valuable thing that these companies have to offer at this stage of the ASIC market)

hah so YOU were the one who wrote the two BFL email newsletters ;)

Tighten up your English! :-*

Well it's hardly a bet if the party already has the answer/outcome before placing the bet...

let's see how this ends up...

I disagree.  Those are the best kinds of bets.

If Inaba really knows the answers and is willing to put money into escrow to prove it, it would send a very clear signal to the market.  The signal, conceivably, could mislead the market (he's sacrificing 1000BTC to make 5000BTC in more preorders), but that just raises another potential bet.  Bets are useful.  Take a look at Intrade.

Ok, so, now what?

I know a good charity in need of a new pet shelter, can I nominate them? (Not joking, currently working on helping them accept BTC as donations)

Better call Luke-jr.

I'm sure he received 1000 BTC for charitable purposes (more pills).

Give some to world food program.

http://www.wfp.org/

Cue Josh being all Josh about this bet...

ASBIRO (Alternative School of Business and Personal Development) - http://www.asbiro.pl/afryka/

They are building a private pre-school in Zambia now which will be named after Ludwig von Mises, and they will be also teaching kids about business and economics in the Austrian school spirit.

When it is finished they will build a school, and after that a higher education institution.

http://www.asbiro.pl/images/asbiroafryka.png

You know this is actually a good one. They get my vote for the imaginary 1000 BTC BFL will scam them for by never delivering in the first place. You know, just like they did to the general BTC community.

Donation is in the last stage of payment....

Given the OP of this thread and the following, I guess this is Josh's bet and not BFL's:

Close to $100,000, I'll be watching to see how this plays out if it ever happens. I find this betting to be childish but if the charities get paid then I'm fine with it!

Unless I slipped in the shower this morning we're in 2013. Right?

You are correct, hence pointing out the highlighted text.

Bitcoins for a good cause

That sounds like some other bet. The 1000 BTC is the bet on their official forums.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets.html

Yes it was more than a year ago - the FPGA Single ...

The reference was about bets in general. BFL doesn't make bets.

Can't you read?


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets.html

BFL should get the scammer tag if they don't pay up.

I was referring to the posts above mine - meh I thought it was obvious I guess not for some :P

Hey dipshit,

Now that you ass-hats have failed to deliver on your power specs and speeds, perhaps it is time to pay up the 1000 BTC to a charity and then prove you actually paid them? Oh wait...you have more important things to do like troll BTCtalk and cuss at your customers.

+1 they should get a scammer tag already.

Okay, sorry, my bad.


There isn't any wiggle room in that quote. They missed their estimates by a mile and now they should pay up.

Yep.

Apologies for jumping in earlier and messing things up a tad. I just now realized that this thread was started last year, assuming it was a recent thread still hashing the 1000 BTC bet(?), thinking all along it's been a continuation from a recent timeline.

I now clearly see that at one time BFL stated that they don't get involve with bets, yet later did put out a statement contrary to that, albeit they may not consider it a bet, but I'm not sure as to what else to call it.

The way I now read it is that we clearly have two, count 'em, 2 1000 BTC bets offered up at approximately the same time by two different entities. Ain't this special!

Anyone know of any updates concerning the topic of these bets?

Update: Nada update!

OTOH!

Assembler: Señor, Sonny, we have run out of parts to make Jalapeños.
Josh: I'll handle this, Sonny. Then tu go home at lunche today.
Sonny: Well played!
Josh: I love Mondays!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208837.0

Just figured I would quote this.

'offering', 'willing'

but there is no "bet" as outlined in paragraph 1 if this tom person didn't 'agree to do the same'.  did he?  i'm not going to read this whole thread.  if not, then why dredge up this old bs?

maybe there is a better post to quote?

In fact, there is.


Emphasis mine.

Arguably he should have been Toxx'ed as soon as the funds didn't show up in escrow, but you know, forum collusion and all.

Another mother fuckin' memo I didn't get! When the hell did it become okay for a COO of a company to make bets on behalf of the company they work for?

Now read the last bold statement carefully! Josh is stating that he's confident that he would win the bet if Tom followed through, but since Tom back out, Josh offers up 1000 BTC on behalf of the company and is willing to put said amount in escrow, of which he didn't do, for he didn't need to because he's a man of his word.

That's Bet one/1/uno for 1000 BTC.

Now, for bet(?) two/2/dos for 1000 BTC.

A representative of BFL (not Josh, though not stipulated) offers up a guarantee of 1000 BTC on their official forum, done so to garner more sales, of which they accomplished said task.

Now, let's get this mother fuckin' straight! There are two, not one, 1000 BTC bets/guarantees that need to be honored. Both were offered up on separate channels and were never meant to be of the same ilk, albeit they may have been combined as such at a later date.

It's perfectly acceptable for a C-level administrator to make these kinds of calls, even if it means the other partners might feel the need to bludgeon him afterwards.

ok, i am in agreements that that quoted statement is definitive ;D

This still hasn't been paid off?

Typical BFL, give them a few weeks, they take a few years.

BFL, I have nothing to do with your company or any of your employees, however it seems you owe some coins, time to pay up.

If they don't make good on this bet, wouldn't that earn them a Scammer tag on the forums?

They are the largest advertiser on this forum and that's why they don't get the scammer tag.

In my opinion they should get the scammer tag and they shouldn't be allowed to advertise here again until they have shipped their outstanding orders and paid their debts. We don't need prominent Big Fat Liars.

Here's what worries me:


Since BFL never delivered any "Single SC" products, this could allow them to weasel out of the original "bet." Although:


seems pretty straightforward, and should be honored, since none of their products (at least version 1) will be even close to 1.1w/GH.

Unlike Josh, I'm not going to bother the mods by putting this in the scammer section, but somebody else is more than welcome to do such.

As any sane person can see, Josh owes 1000 BTC to some charity(s). This has nothing to do with BFL's guarantee, runeks' bet, or not having to honor it because Tom is out of the picture. Reread the very first sentence if you're unsure of Josh's intent. The following two sentences was Josh's way of coercing Tom to act.

As many times as this 1000 BTC guarantee, of sorts, has been brought to Josh's attention, he has failed to address it, just like he has failed to readdress the in-two-weeks^TM FCC certification from back in November of last year and inform us of who was Sonny K. he spoke with when he first went to BFL's former facility in KC, MO, Sonny's step dad's old photo studio, later referring to said Sonny as Sonny Vleisides.

I look forward to Josh's reply once he wakes from his nap and gets on with his daily chat with LukeJr between midnight and 2AM.

Still waiting on that 1000 BTC to charity donation.

Lol.
Good memories.

Didn't you hear, they gave it to themselves.

What happened in this thread? Did the 1000 BTC get donated to charity yet?

They created an ad-hoc charity they donated the 1000btc to.

And bribed the bitcoin foundation/lukejr, etc.

So they sent the BTC to themselves... doesn't sound very fair :-)

Are empty promises really surprising anyone at this point?

Plenty of people have failed to pay up on big bets :-)

What did everybody expect...

Maybe they will pay next month...

Yes, several months ago.

Inaba = Biggest Scum Bag in these Forums.