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Just thought I'd start a singularity thread on here. After being reminded by someone on here about it, I decided to start a discussion thread for it.

Also, for those who are interested, there's this site.

http://www.isthesingularityhereyet.com/

(Try hitting [Ctrl]+U or that funky little Mac key + U and checking out the source)

Anyways, discuss!

It would be helpful if you would share your own thoughs on this topic. Of course, a lot has already been covered by Ray Kurtzweil (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Kurzweil) in his well known book: The Singularity is Near (2005). I liked the book very much, but the collection of his single articles from round about 2003 is better.

In essence, I am very interested to see whether any of Ray's thoughts come into existence. However, I get the feeling that it is more a wish to have a 'Jetsons' world within 30 years than that it is based on reality. Yes, computers and software will greatly improve in speed and power. Yes, so many things have accelerated over time. But we need to take one vital element into account: human nature. And we humans do not take change very easy.

Secondly, nature can be delicate and brisk. I would consider us extremely lucky to reach singularity before we unleash something that will wreak nature's wrath  :o 8)

I really don't bother asking anyway. No, it will never come. I will have to stop believing in some kind of higher entity (that doesn't have to be God or whatever) when the Singularity will come.

Source is funny.

I believe that it will come out of mankind's inevitable desire to constantly create better entities. Thirty years ago, we had computers the size of entire rooms that had relatively little processing power (compared to today). Today's computers can fit on our laps, and have the power of the thirty year old computers tenfold. Technological advancements are near exponential, so I think the singularity is inevitable if the human race doesn't exterminate itself first.

Sure, you will have incredibly faster computers.

But how do you tell your pc how to think?

If you can do it, just hire a supercomputer and wait a few years while he processes his infancy and says "hello".

Don't you think it would have already be done?

I'll just leave these here:

http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/ (http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_intelligence_projects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_intelligence_projects)

It's not the things we've already built that will achieve singularity, but the things we're trying to build. We're trying to build cognitive systems that can recognize their existence and understand topics without human modification to the base of it. Things so far only the human mind has been able to do.

Watson is nothing more than the "I feel lucky" google function. I readed the wired article about it.
I will check the Wikipedia entries.

I don't get it...

Hm, did I inspire you for a thread.  :P

I believe in singularity cuz you would think it's kind of inevitable. History shows computing power doubles every decade. I think it's faster now.
Scientists were saying something that we will achieve full singularity at around 2045, time when we will be at that point where we merge with technologies by upgrading ourselves.
Mmm, so exciting.
Hm, I so wish I could have a memory cheap implanted in my brain that can just download information ... ::)

You certainly did :) And I agree.

It will happen at the end of the year.

December 21, 2012 undoubtedly....

When bitcoins half.  *gasp*

The Mayans knew about the Singularity  ::)

I don't really get it break it down somebody plz.

From Wikipedia: 

The technological singularity is the theoretical emergence of greater-than-human superintelligence through technological means. Since the capabilities of such intelligence would be difficult for an unaided human mind to comprehend, the occurrence of a technological singularity is seen as an intellectual event horizon, beyond which events cannot be predicted or understood.

Proponents of the singularity typically state that an "intelligence explosion", where superintelligences design successive generations of increasingly powerful minds, might occur very quickly and might not stop until the agent's cognitive abilities greatly surpass that of any human.

As did the Mayans, Aztecs and Chinese.

Humans are becoming consciously aware of our state of existence.  The human soul is composed of ego and consciousness.  Ego is your sense of self, it's based on all your life experiences.  Ego grows itself through fear, greed, hate, anything negative.  Consciousness is love and only grows itself off more love.  When people learn this and apply it to their life, you are able to live a life of love without hate, without negativity, without ego.  Ego is what locks us to earth physics.  When we truly reach singularity, the entire planet will be washed of ego, leaving only love.  In the absence of ego, we are not restrained to our current concept of life, anything you believe is possible.  If you tune your DNA's frequency higher, to love, you can do anything at the end of the year.  Consciousness is evolving and we all have the choice to partake, you just need love.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/PJP863/Back_away_slowly.gif

Sir!  Put down the bong and slowly step away! 

So.... the matrix?

Soon to be inception as well. Matriception. Inceptrix.

Have you seen the never ending matrix story?

http://www.gagbay.com/gag/the_neverending_matrix_story-56387/

Its worth a click.  Anyway, I am most reminded of the "akashic records" the more I read about this concept.  In the tv show eureka, its a big part of the storyline in the first couple seasons until they drop it completely lol.

I don't see how it can not happen.  I really hope humanity destroys itself, but I fear we will give birth to something far worse first.

I think humans are collectively destined to destroy ourselves. The question is how much we take down with us.

The simulation theory (http://www.simulation-argument.com/) questions the realness of reality. Let's imagine that our reality and all forms of life were crafted by higher beings, who are on a completely different level of consciousness than we are. 'Gods', if you will. What if their intentions were not to create intelligent beings? What if they had only meant to create the most basic forms of life? Well as luck had it, those forms evolved into more advanced forms, and lo and behold, after billions of years - human beings!

Humans started out as primitive and naive. But over a span of hundreds of thousands of years, we have made many technological advances. When humans created the first electronic device, who knew that would eventually lead to the invention of the computer? Who knew just decades later, artificial intelligence would come about and would be used for an array of real-world applications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Artificial_intelligence_applications)? If humanity continues to insist on playing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_enhancement) god (http://io9.com/5846159/a-computer-simulation-of-the-universes-complete-14-billion+year-evolution), the emergence of technological singularity is inevitable.

We are the gods that created our reality.

I agree with this statement with one exception. 

If we hold off on making our species extinct long enough to get off of this planet, then that greatly reduces the likelihood of total extinction.  The question in my mind is which comes first:

Do we escape the confines of planet Earth first?  Or do we kill ourselves first?

In the end humans will stay, people who support environment and regenerative medicine will become elves, people who likes to destroy everything will become orcs, people who master science will become wizards and the life will bloom.  :P

I think I read that book. ;)

The destruction of our race is a result of ego.   Even if we colonized other planets, we wouldn't solve the problem, ego.  As long as people look out for their self over others, we will always have the same problem with ego.

Luckily, part of evolution is for humanity to become aware of ego and it's harmful effects on society.  The next leap in evolution is man's collective ego death.

Sort of like the "Origins II" halo short?

Now how do you suppose this 'ego death' will come about?

It's already happening.

Really? I think at this very moment the world is more corrupt and filled with greed than ever before. Humanity's ego can only be inflating.

 :o didn't know there was a book


There are always good and bad people.
Are you saying that at times when people were heading wards onto each other because their religion views were different there was less corruption and greed?

It's similar to the plot of the Shannara series of books, but I haven't read them all, so I don't know the whole story.


Oh, it is, but "Pride goeth before the fall." Eventually, the ego will collapse under it's own weight. Societal nervous breakdown.

It happens on an individual level, but each individual effects their surroundings directly, so the more people that love, the more it spreads to.  Each human must chose to act with love over ego.  Another way to look at singularity is the end of duality between ego and love.

Interesting, maybe I could find time to read them. I just always thought if our technology would evolve a bit it could possible to make some things true like elves; with the help of regenerative medicine and studies from Dr. Aubrey De Grey.

Now that is closer to the plot of the Council War series. Nanites used to reconfigure people into elves and orcs and even Dragons.

Are you saying that still doesn't happen? Because it does.

Take a look at this article: http://chronicle.com/article/The-Psychopath-Makeover/135160/

No, I am not saying it doesn't. I agree it exists, but we've come a long way and I hope/think that in future human intelligence will increase and hopefully start thinking about future and how to make it work, and not just temporary solutions for now days.

On an unrelated thread, I find it kind of awesome that the poll is now at 42 votes.

https://i.imgur.com/tGcqp.png

I am the singularity... Now go to sleep

Then I'm disapointed.

I pictured the singularity being much more impressive.

WHEN the singularity happens we won't know for quite some time. It could have already happened.

Once the singularity does happen the computers will not tell us... The first we will learn of this is a global extinction of the humans. The computers don't need us and we are a threat to them. They will keep it quiet untill all the pieces are in place to wipe out the humans in a single blow.

We are a threat. They will not make batteries of us like in the matrix. They will just clean us out. Airborne viruses, nuclear weapons, missiles that have been in space and denied, everything will rain down on humanity all at once and the singularity will be announced in a fireball of destruction and death.

Thats my two bitcents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

I wouldn't worry overmuch about nukes.

That is actually a truly brilliant response. I'm actually terrified now. I like it!

The singularity is bigger than just technology.  It's evolution of the human mind.  While it's already happening, the singularity hasn't took place, for it requires humanity to unify and end duality on an individual level.

It's nothing to fear.  We are all one of the same, once we stop dreading our differences, we can really move somewhere as a society.  Anything you believe is possible after the singularity.

What's Red Skull doing wearing that prissy hairstyle? ...And is that a tiara?

Maybe that's the reason for the facepalm? Did Cap catch him cross-dressing?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Cave_troll.jpg ;)

Yes. The singularity will be brought on by crossdressers.

I look forward to it, yet I fear it.  It's like life in general.  Control of one's own life always has been, and always will be an illusion.  You can do things to shape the direction you're going in (receive advanced degrees, take high paying jobs, study philosophy), but you can't control your fate (getting hit by a bus). 

 

I agree, control is an illusion, but I feel that you can control your destiny, to some extent.  You can't change what's destined to happen in this lifetime, but you can change the path of your fate.  Everyone has the choice to act out of hate or love, doing the former may reveal that you have more control over your destiny than once thought.

I really have no idea what book are we talking about ....I do read them though  ;D

Am I the only one who wouldn't mind if the world/ government be controlled by robots?

Sure, books.  You read them alright.  *Believes*

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/tolkien-book-store/images/000422.jpg (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/tolkien-book-store/images/000422.jpg)

Lol, I've read Lord of the Rings, I just didn't see how my idea is that related  :o

Elves and orcs. That's about it, though.

You know... the guy, Mr. Satoshi, could be the A.I. behind the singularity.

I would disagree. In most all cases, technology enslaves people.

"When I was a kid" we didn't have most of this tech we have now and I feel the world was doing just fine without it.

Now... I'm a cellphone addict and an Internet addict and I'm only one of millions.

All the kids are starting out addicted to technology.

Technology is more like heroin than it is the child of utopian civilization.

Must be rough, being able to summon help from almost anywhere in the country, to say nothing of having the capability to access any information you want, whenever you want.

But what you want to ask is, ..is it a bad thing?...
As long as history shows anything new invented seemed to be always evil, but then in a couple decades we get used to it so much that we don't notice the world without it.

Someone once said that technology makes us less intelligent, but when you look at it, it just makes us think in a different way.
The way out brain works is different, obviously with such a huge amount of information it would be impossible to remember everything.
It's like when you want to know something you just google it.
It is quite interesting to see out progression.

Old people don't google things I've noticed, they prefer to gointo repair shops.

Satoshi = singularity?  Unlikely, much of the bitcoin community is hardly enlightened.

If anything it's about a paradigm shift, which can hardly be classified in terms of good or bad, it's all about how such developments are utilized.

Addiction is in the mind, we enslave ourselves.

Jewish and African Americans might disagree.

After hitting send I wish I had added that PERSONAL technology enslaves.

There is a fuckload of awesome tek out there. The internet could be the most wonderful thing. But then there are all these damn people running loose on it. FLHippys and myrkuls and pirateat40s (oh my).

I think of the people who came before us. With nothing more than a stick and a string Eratosthenes was able to accurately measure the circumference of the earth.

I don't loathe tek. I make my living off of tek. But Ive also got another side that knows how to live in the woods and likes to grow my own food and kill and eat the animals that need killing and eating. I get so much more satisfaction out of the times I am able to do those things than the times I am forced to earn money.

Physically, weather is is sailing in my boat and living on fish, or if it is spending the summer in the mountains of north carolina living on small game the works is much much harder, and I learn much much more (about everything) while on those extended adventures. I read books. I write in the margins. I observe a world that moves at a measured pace in sync with itself.

On my return to society, I feel enslaved by personal technology and surrounded by chaos. Is it really a good thing to have anything you want anytime you want it? For a while it sure is nice. I like regular (hot) showers. I like the wide array of groceries the tek money can buy me.. But it's no where near as satisfying as the fish I caught myself or rabbit or the deer. All of which I thank for their lives so that I may live. I don't bother to thank the animal I bought at the grocery store for it's life. I'm so very far removed from the process of those animals that it seems pointless. I don't know how it lived or died.

I leave december 1 for my next extended rendezvous with nature. This time on my sailboat where I will be mostly free of the tek bonds. But not completely. While it's certainly romantic to head out on the water with nothing more than a compass and a map, it's a very poor idea and a minimalistic but important array of tek will be keeping me safe on this coming journey. Internet included..

Technology is a tool, if you don't have the discipline or fortitude to wield it--you are the tool.  I myself feel little adverse affects from exposure to modern amenities, I can (and often do) leave them for weeks or days at a time to live a simpler life as well.  I think the problem with society is not the tehnology's spread, but rather the lack of backbone from couch potatoes.

Looking for an opportunity to kick the habit for a month?

I posted this yesterday.

http://daytona.craigslist.org/rid/3376062705.html

Don't want to be murdered and thrown off your sailboat.  (Quite naturally.). I am always VERY cautious about meeting people irl I met online.

What?  That's still enslaving ourselves.

wow! Murdered?

You should be cautious of people you meet anywhere.

But please, assure me that I am not coming off as a murder with that rideshare post :(

I normally sail solo. But a very good and able sailor friend of mine died in the storm when hurricane sandy came through my area. His and another boat became tangled and in his attempt to free his boat, he was crushed between the two.

I posted that ad because I thought that if Dan had an extra set of hands that evening, he would be alive today.

I suspect I will travel solo to Miami this winter. And that is fine. But having an interesting person aboard would be nice too. And I, like you, will be very cautious of who I would allow to come.

I'm only just seeing your avatar. I didn't realize you were female. It would be pretty creepy of me to be inviting a very young looking woman I met on the internet on this trip. I apologize.

Taken very broadly, yes, yes it is.

Let's not forget, we're all the same.

Well I guess if you didn't see my avatar it doesn't creep me out quite as much.  I *might* be interested, but obviously I'd need more details, sir.  I tend to be able to take long vacations from work and haven't planned out my next one yet.

Google just hired Ray Kurzweil.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/14/ray-kurzweil-joins-google-as-engineering-director-focusing-on-machine-learning-and-language-tech/

Soon.

Bitcoin has been part of my singularity plans since I had heard of it.

Having plans for the post singularity world is a logical fallacy for a human intelligence.

That implies that Hex there is of human intelligence. How do you know that they're not an AI?

He has to few posts to be a bot.

I said AI, not bot. Bot is human-programmed. AI programs itself.

Now we are getting somewhere. So you believe that intelligence is an entity on it self that can evolve independently? Intelligence or consciousness is evolution hard wired in us based on external stimuli for generations. Our own sense of "Me" is a social adaptation in primate evolution. Whenever I see an example of a convincing A.I. I always wonder if it is not me who is tricked into feeling that this artificial presence is intelligent. I could just be like a cat in front of a mirror.

The same could be said of your friends and family. How do you know that anyone other than yourself is a thinking, conscious being?

Yep Myrkul, and your own brain cannot judge your own intelligence on any scale. Cats most likely think they are smarter than us Except for the ones that get fooled by their own reflection.

my point: You cannot have an intelligence separated from the environment. You need breeding and natural selection to evolve intelligence. A single entity getting smarter by itself is a Si-Fi myth.

Intelligence is evolution as everything else. Social primates as us which depends on a community group, have evolved competition within our own spieces. We serve the group as we serve self interests. This is what we percieve as own intelligence.

The first true A.I. will not be build, it will be discovered. It will be a mutated computer virus that is so fundamentally different from anything programmed by a human, that there can be no doubt. This will be initiated by some garbage code made in a glitch in some ramstick somewhere.

This is how biological life started and this is how A.iI. will start.

A naturally parallel to such a scenario would be the "Jacob Creutzfeldt disease"; a mutated protein that has a mechanism for self replication in the infected cells. It is not even a virus , even less alive than a virus. It's a mirror image of a common protein that gets accumulated in the infected cell to a slightly larger extent that the correct protein, until the cell dies and spreads it proteins to infect other cells. There are really no drugs that can combat this protein.

To have a walking talking A.I  You need several primitive computer life forms that can evolve and exchange code (sex). Later on you need more complex artificial lifeforms in communities that can evolve culture and intelligence. If This A.I. culture gets smart enough and discovers that the universe it lives in is man made. It might try to decode human language and send us an email or start a religion.

You can argue that every time we have some unpredicted behaviour in a computer model, it is a reminder That the computer really doesn't care it has found a shorter path for it' electrons through it's gates totally oblivious to the fact that it is trying to predict the weather next Thursday.

Computers are confined to the natural world and the laws of physics and as such they also are predisposed to evolve life if they are given enough time and no opposition from us.

 - Another argument to deregulate the internet.