Bitcoin Forum

...we can expect the price of bitcoin to increase even more as the USD continues to fail.

 ;D

 ;D

Let's be honest. It was going to do that anyway.

Right! But the faster the economic collapse, the more incentive people will have to use alternatives to cash... like bitcoins.

Let's be more honest.

USD was designed to depreciate.

USD goes down, btc goes up. You can't explain that.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/29769411.jpg

You're welcome.

Republitroll warning! Thinks a presidential election affects the Federal Reserve Cabal.

Election results:
Massachusetts (where Romney was governor): Mitt Romney 37%
Utah (land of the Mormon): Mitt Romney 74%

Increased taxes and gloomy economic forecasts will slow the economy down even more. I believe that the recent (and very weak imo) leveling off of the economic dip in the US was because everyone was expecting Obama to be sent packing.

*upvotes*

A part of me is glad Obama won. It means a faster road to collapse. Just study history and the rise and fall of empires. Pretty eye-opening stuff and we are speeding far and fast down that very road. People dont know their history. There is one law that never changes in this world. Debts shall be paid - one way or another.

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

Dude. Bitcoin is not backed by lead and brass.  :-X

Yeah, that's kind of where I am. Plus, if Romney had won, that would make it easier to blame the inevitable collapse on "deregulation" and "drastic cuts" to government spending (because as you know that's how Republicans govern).  If we're going to have statism, I'd rather it not be cloaked in the rhetoric of liberty and free markets. 

As a consolation prize I have to agree --- I'd rather have the collapse happen under a liberal.

It's actually quite easy to explain but there are correct and different explanations for it:

. Obama wins the election, stupid, mainly racist people ( lets be honest here guys ) get terrified and start buying up bitcoins because they think the end of the world is coming and want to get out of the dollar - this may explain a short term rise so soon, I remember seeing on the news at one time about how Gun Stores actually benefited greatly from Obama's scary gun law threats because everyone would rush to buy guns to prepare themselves for a civil war that wouldn't happen, same logic can apply to Bitcoin

. Obama is going to continue pursuing business as usual policies of inflation and blowing up anyone that looks at his country funny which will massively increase the debt and a rise in bitcoin prices is simply a reaction to his future policies much like the way currencies sometimes react to announcements by central banks etc.

. The USD is controlled by the Federal Reserve who are the only ones that can print the bank notes, they buy up bonds and securities to maintain a certain level of volatility that speculators can deal with whereas with Bitcoin it is a deflationary de-centralized currency not really controlled by any one entity, I believe that speculating with the currency itself is actually a fairly stupid idea because of course it doesn't have the same predictability the USD has as if you decided to purchase bitcoins for speculation purposes someone could just easily dump a ton of bitcoins or purchase them to ruin your day

That's how I understand the current situation at least in my mind.

Exactly this. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily. 

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

That really is not a poor qualification, just a simple answer to a silly question.  With internet, power, medical care, entertainment and 'protection' all available (to most want it or not) the US is not a collapsed society. 

A more clever answer could have been.....

"Wait...."

Tell me this isn't collapsed: http://silverunderground.com/2012/11/the-police-state-is-spinning-out-of-control/
(or at least collapsing)

It has not collapsed.  On the edge?  Maybe.  I 100% agree with the title of your link. 

You know that scene that's in like, every comedy movie, where the car is sitting on the edge of a cliff, and it wobbles back and forth, until a bird lands on the hood and down it goes?

We're in that car. Has the bird landed yet? Is it in the process of taking off again after sending us tipping? I'm not sure. But that horizon keeps moving up....

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

If anything is impacting the USD, it is the current deadlock in Congress.  Congress has become a Polish parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_parliament_%28expression%29).  The political climate is freezing cold, and everybody seems occupied in an eternal pissing contest.  The Fiscal Cliff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_fiscal_cliff) is getting closer.  If Congress can't clear out the fog of damping piss and find a solution very soon, the U.S. credit rating will drop.  And that will have an impact.

Fortunately the Democrats gained in both chambers of Congress, on the expense of a few hard lined Tea partiers, and this gives slightly better odds of a solution.  Even Romney said he would close tax loopholes.  If they at least can agree on those, and let the Bush tax cuts expire, they will have time to make necessary cuts in public spending without sending the economy straight into recession.

Actually most of the accepted scientific polls showed the Obama win.  It was FOX and other conservative outlets that consistently called those polls flawed and oversampled with democrats. 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/skewed_polling_meets_energized_conservatives.html

MythBusted (http://mythbustersresults.com/newtons-crane-cradle)...

https://sslimgs.xkcd.com/comics/math.png (http://xkcd.com/1131/)


Yes, I saw that episode. The debt is much, much bigger than a turkey buzzard.

So based purely on on this post, I see you've sampled the kool-aid. There's no way that anyone can honestly say that democrats will actually will make 'necessary cuts'...


... wake up man. Increased tax revenue will only lead them to even more deficit spending, just like it always has in the past.


The only way to potentially save the economy would be to drastically cut taxes - and demand a balanced federal budget.

Then perhaps the republican majority will?

I'm not even going to begin on this one.  You obviously don't know your history.

In the long run, perhaps.  If you think throwing most government paid workers into unemployment this week, and at the same time cutting public investments in infrastructure and other projects will do any good to the economy, your are obviously on drugs.  Greece is trying a very mild version of this.  Cutting public spending while avoiding to do anything serious about their tax evasion problem.  Now look how well it works for them!  A tax increase is the only way to balance the budget in the short term without creating a massive recession.  And we will see if the republican majority will be able to keep the balance while cutting taxes when the economy allows it.

Much of the public debt comes from bank bailouts.  I'm sure the bankers are able to pay a little of that back now.  The bank managers are not getting thrown out of their homes.  Some do not even depend on charity to survive.  And what I really don't understand is why the giant oil companies should pay zero tax, and receive money back from the government on top!  Oh, yes I remember, it was Bush/Cheney who fixed that to help their poor hungry buddies in big oil.

What's keeping you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0 (yeah I know cheap, but I just had to...)

Stock reply #413: Somalia's problem isn't no government, it's too many little ones
Stock reply #424: http://peterleeson.com/better_off_stateless.pdf

Too bad nobody has balanced the budget before.... oh wait... Bill Clinton did with slightly higher taxes for the rich and a reasonable bi-partisan budget.

Reagan tried your method of cutting taxes and hoping it would bring in more money.  Simple math says it does not work.  He tried.  Math was right. 

Now that federal spending is so high it needs to be cut across the board as well as the tax increases.  Only the combination can get there.

Reagan sparked an economic boom that lasted until after clinton left office... clinton allowed the bank deregulation that effectively caused the recession we're in right now... and balanced budgets during his time were a republican coup (see Contract with America).

Economists actually blame bush jr. for his economic policy and leadership holding the economy together for 3 years after 9/11. But I digress.


~

As for your last line there --- we don't need to increase taxes to balance the budget, we need to reduce the size/cost of government by ~47% then freeze spending at that level. That done, as long as taxes are enough to cover the interest on the national debt + some reasonable extra to pay down that debt, we'd at least be on the road out of this mess.

I find it interesting that as bitcoiners we pretty much agree that bitcoin has the potential to break the back of the existing banking system if given adoption and time... but we can't agree on easy to verify economic history like when certain policy went into effect and what the result of that policy was.

That's the whole problem with the president thing... the market often takes longer than 4 (or even 8 ) years to fully react to a changed policy, so the current president often gets blame (and credit) for what the last guy did.

That and it's pretty much standard policy write things like regulation/deregulation and +tax/-tax to go into effect after the president is out of office...

Not possible to both cut taxes and get a balanced budget in the current political system.  Nice thought but the math just does not work.  

Increased taxes plus CUTS can lead to a balanced budget with politicians coding into law that the extra money needs to go to pay back the debt.  I doubt they will do it but it certainly is possible.  

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

We can't diminish what presidents and lesser elected officials do while in office. How many deaths, how many civil liberties violated, did they cause during their terms? These can be quantified. And if there were true justice in this world, they'd be punished at least as severely as Charles Taylor, Slobodan Milošević (had he not died in detention), and all other sociopaths from "unfavored states", for lack of a better term, rather than rewarded for the rest of their, and their families', lives.