Now that Obama's in for 4 more...

[Littleshop]

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily. 

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

That really is not a poor qualification, just a simple answer to a silly question.  With internet, power, medical care, entertainment and 'protection' all available (to most want it or not) the US is not a collapsed society. 

A more clever answer could have been.....

"Wait...."

[myrkul]

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily. 

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

That really is not a poor qualification, just a simple answer to a silly question.  With internet, power, medical care, entertainment and 'protection' all available (to most want it or not) the US is not a collapsed society. 

A more clever answer could have been.....

"Wait...."

Tell me this isn't collapsed: http://silverunderground.com/2012/11/the-police-state-is-spinning-out-of-control/
(or at least collapsing)

[Littleshop]

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily. 

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

That really is not a poor qualification, just a simple answer to a silly question.  With internet, power, medical care, entertainment and 'protection' all available (to most want it or not) the US is not a collapsed society. 

A more clever answer could have been.....

"Wait...."

Tell me this isn't collapsed: http://silverunderground.com/2012/11/the-police-state-is-spinning-out-of-control/
(or at least collapsing)

It has not collapsed.  On the edge?  Maybe.  I 100% agree with the title of your link. 

[myrkul]

It has not collapsed.  On the edge?  Maybe. 

You know that scene that's in like, every comedy movie, where the car is sitting on the edge of a cliff, and it wobbles back and forth, until a bird lands on the hood and down it goes?

We're in that car. Has the bird landed yet? Is it in the process of taking off again after sending us tipping? I'm not sure. But that horizon keeps moving up....

[sturle]

...we can expect the price of bitcoin to increase even more as the USD continues to fail.

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

If anything is impacting the USD, it is the current deadlock in Congress.  Congress has become a Polish parliament.  The political climate is freezing cold, and everybody seems occupied in an eternal pissing contest.  The Fiscal Cliff is getting closer.  If Congress can't clear out the fog of damping piss and find a solution very soon, the U.S. credit rating will drop.  And that will have an impact.

Fortunately the Democrats gained in both chambers of Congress, on the expense of a few hard lined Tea partiers, and this gives slightly better odds of a solution.  Even Romney said he would close tax loopholes.  If they at least can agree on those, and let the Bush tax cuts expire, they will have time to make necessary cuts in public spending without sending the economy straight into recession.

[Littleshop]

...we can expect the price of bitcoin to increase even more as the USD continues to fail.

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

Actually most of the accepted scientific polls showed the Obama win.  It was FOX and other conservative outlets that consistently called those polls flawed and oversampled with democrats. 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/skewed_polling_meets_energized_conservatives.html

[TheButterZone]

It has not collapsed.  On the edge?  Maybe.

You know that scene that's in like, every comedy movie, where the car is sitting on the edge of a cliff, and it wobbles back and forth, until a bird lands on the hood and down it goes?

We're in that car. Has the bird landed yet? Is it in the process of taking off again after sending us tipping? I'm not sure. But that horizon keeps moving up....

MythBusted...

[myrkul]

Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

It has not collapsed.  On the edge?  Maybe.

You know that scene that's in like, every comedy movie, where the car is sitting on the edge of a cliff, and it wobbles back and forth, until a bird lands on the hood and down it goes?

We're in that car. Has the bird landed yet? Is it in the process of taking off again after sending us tipping? I'm not sure. But that horizon keeps moving up....

MythBusted...

Yes, I saw that episode. The debt is much, much bigger than a turkey buzzard.

[firefop]

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

If anything is impacting the USD, it is the current deadlock in Congress.  Congress has become a Polish parliament.  The political climate is freezing cold, and everybody seems occupied in an eternal pissing contest.  The Fiscal Cliff is getting closer.  If Congress can't clear out the fog of damping piss and find a solution very soon, the U.S. credit rating will drop.  And that will have an impact.

Fortunately the Democrats gained in both chambers of Congress, on the expense of a few hard lined Tea partiers, and this gives slightly better odds of a solution.  Even Romney said he would close tax loopholes.  If they at least can agree on those, and let the Bush tax cuts expire, they will have time to make necessary cuts in public spending without sending the economy straight into recession.

So based purely on on this post, I see you've sampled the kool-aid. There's no way that anyone can honestly say that democrats will actually will make 'necessary cuts'...


... wake up man. Increased tax revenue will only lead them to even more deficit spending, just like it always has in the past.


The only way to potentially save the economy would be to drastically cut taxes - and demand a balanced federal budget.

[sturle]

So based purely on on this post, I see you've sampled the kool-aid. There's no way that anyone can honestly say that democrats will actually will make 'necessary cuts'...

Then perhaps the republican majority will?

... wake up man. Increased tax revenue will only lead them to even more deficit spending, just like it always has in the past.

I'm not even going to begin on this one.  You obviously don't know your history.

The only way to potentially save the economy would be to drastically cut taxes - and demand a balanced federal budget.

In the long run, perhaps.  If you think throwing most government paid workers into unemployment this week, and at the same time cutting public investments in infrastructure and other projects will do any good to the economy, your are obviously on drugs.  Greece is trying a very mild version of this.  Cutting public spending while avoiding to do anything serious about their tax evasion problem.  Now look how well it works for them!  A tax increase is the only way to balance the budget in the short term without creating a massive recession.  And we will see if the republican majority will be able to keep the balance while cutting taxes when the economy allows it.

Much of the public debt comes from bank bailouts.  I'm sure the bankers are able to pay a little of that back now.  The bank managers are not getting thrown out of their homes.  Some do not even depend on charity to survive.  And what I really don't understand is why the giant oil companies should pay zero tax, and receive money back from the government on top!  Oh, yes I remember, it was Bush/Cheney who fixed that to help their poor hungry buddies in big oil.

[ElectricMucus]

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily.  

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

What's keeping you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0 (yeah I know cheap, but I just had to...)

[myrkul]

If it's going to happen, better to rip the bandaid off fast rather than the long slow agonizing pull, and hope it comes to a head in my lifetime to save my kids and grandbabies.

You want your kids to live in a  collapsed society?

What makes you think we aren't already?

The fact that I can buy food easily.  

Poor qualification. Food is readily available in Kenya and Somalia, as well.

What's keeping you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0 (yeah I know cheap, but I just had to...)

Stock reply #413: Somalia's problem isn't no government, it's too many little ones
Stock reply #424: http://peterleeson.com/better_off_stateless.pdf

[Littleshop]

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

If anything is impacting the USD, it is the current deadlock in Congress.  Congress has become a Polish parliament.  The political climate is freezing cold, and everybody seems occupied in an eternal pissing contest.  The Fiscal Cliff is getting closer.  If Congress can't clear out the fog of damping piss and find a solution very soon, the U.S. credit rating will drop.  And that will have an impact.

Fortunately the Democrats gained in both chambers of Congress, on the expense of a few hard lined Tea partiers, and this gives slightly better odds of a solution.  Even Romney said he would close tax loopholes.  If they at least can agree on those, and let the Bush tax cuts expire, they will have time to make necessary cuts in public spending without sending the economy straight into recession.

So based purely on on this post, I see you've sampled the kool-aid. There's no way that anyone can honestly say that democrats will actually will make 'necessary cuts'...


... wake up man. Increased tax revenue will only lead them to even more deficit spending, just like it always has in the past.


The only way to potentially save the economy would be to drastically cut taxes - and demand a balanced federal budget.

Too bad nobody has balanced the budget before.... oh wait... Bill Clinton did with slightly higher taxes for the rich and a reasonable bi-partisan budget.

Reagan tried your method of cutting taxes and hoping it would bring in more money.  Simple math says it does not work.  He tried.  Math was right. 

Now that federal spending is so high it needs to be cut across the board as well as the tax increases.  Only the combination can get there.

[firefop]

Too bad nobody has balanced the budget before.... oh wait... Bill Clinton did with slightly higher taxes for the rich and a reasonable bi-partisan budget.

Reagan tried your method of cutting taxes and hoping it would bring in more money.  Simple math says it does not work.  He tried.  Math was right. 

Now that federal spending is so high it needs to be cut across the board as well as the tax increases.  Only the combination can get there.

Reagan sparked an economic boom that lasted until after clinton left office... clinton allowed the bank deregulation that effectively caused the recession we're in right now... and balanced budgets during his time were a republican coup (see Contract with America).

Economists actually blame bush jr. for his economic policy and leadership holding the economy together for 3 years after 9/11. But I digress.


~

As for your last line there --- we don't need to increase taxes to balance the budget, we need to reduce the size/cost of government by ~47% then freeze spending at that level. That done, as long as taxes are enough to cover the interest on the national debt + some reasonable extra to pay down that debt, we'd at least be on the road out of this mess.

I find it interesting that as bitcoiners we pretty much agree that bitcoin has the potential to break the back of the existing banking system if given adoption and time... but we can't agree on easy to verify economic history like when certain policy went into effect and what the result of that policy was.

[myrkul]

I find it interesting that as bitcoiners we pretty much agree that bitcoin has the potential to break the back of the existing banking system if given adoption and time... but we can't agree on easy to verify economic history like when certain policy went into effect and what the result of that policy was.

That's the whole problem with the president thing... the market often takes longer than 4 (or even 8 ) years to fully react to a changed policy, so the current president often gets blame (and credit) for what the last guy did.

[firefop]

That's the whole problem with the president thing... the market often takes longer than 4 (or even years to fully react to a changed policy, so the current president often gets blame (and credit) for what the last guy did.

That and it's pretty much standard policy write things like regulation/deregulation and +tax/-tax to go into effect after the president is out of office...

[Littleshop]

The USD gained on all major currencies today.  Up 0.42% against EUR.  Probably not due to Obama winning, since that is exactly as predicted by all betting companies during the entire race.  (Never mind the polls.  Polls are inaccurate.)

If anything is impacting the USD, it is the current deadlock in Congress.  Congress has become a Polish parliament.  The political climate is freezing cold, and everybody seems occupied in an eternal pissing contest.  The Fiscal Cliff is getting closer.  If Congress can't clear out the fog of damping piss and find a solution very soon, the U.S. credit rating will drop.  And that will have an impact.

Fortunately the Democrats gained in both chambers of Congress, on the expense of a few hard lined Tea partiers, and this gives slightly better odds of a solution.  Even Romney said he would close tax loopholes.  If they at least can agree on those, and let the Bush tax cuts expire, they will have time to make necessary cuts in public spending without sending the economy straight into recession.

So based purely on on this post, I see you've sampled the kool-aid. There's no way that anyone can honestly say that democrats will actually will make 'necessary cuts'...


... wake up man. Increased tax revenue will only lead them to even more deficit spending, just like it always has in the past.


The only way to potentially save the economy would be to drastically cut taxes - and demand a balanced federal budget.

Not possible to both cut taxes and get a balanced budget in the current political system.  Nice thought but the math just does not work.  

Increased taxes plus CUTS can lead to a balanced budget with politicians coding into law that the extra money needs to go to pay back the debt.  I doubt they will do it but it certainly is possible.  

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

[TheButterZone]

We can't diminish what presidents and lesser elected officials do while in office. How many deaths, how many civil liberties violated, did they cause during their terms? These can be quantified. And if there were true justice in this world, they'd be punished at least as severely as Charles Taylor, Slobodan Milošević (had he not died in detention), and all other sociopaths from "unfavored states", for lack of a better term, rather than rewarded for the rest of their, and their families', lives.