Bitcoin Forum

"It's an online form of money laundering used to disguise the source of money, and to disguise who's both selling and buying the drug," said Schumer.

wow, knew this would happen. This is exactly what we don't want for bitcoin. :(

Indeed :(

The best way to push back is to engage in legal commerce using bitcoins, and demonstrate that bitcoin is a viable world currency.

Start a bitcoin business, encourage businesses to accept bitcoins.

This merits a thread of its own.

+1 We need legit business.

BY THE WAY: Not my type of site, but that article is an ad which will increase the Silk Road traffic. 

It's an online form of money laundering used to disguise the source of money, and to disguise who's both selling and buying the drug," said Schumer.

Someone should invent a decentralized currency we can use so that it doesn't matter what Senators think... oh wait, nice.

Attacking all users
The IP addresses of most users are totally public. You can use Tor to hide this, but the network won't work if everyone does this. BitCoin requires that some country is still free.

Good. This should be shut down. And if bitcoins value drops one penny we should all sue the owner of the silk road. Bitcoin is to young and to small to be associated with this sort of thing. I hope he is imprisoned and bankrupt simultaneously.

Let them eat cake.

What have you been smoking?

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

Agreed.  I feel its a much safer version of drug dealing.  Besides, people should have the freedom to put what they want in their bodies in the first place.  If they want to OD on heroin... so be it.

My response is always:  bitcoin is not your forum to push your ideology.

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

wow, knew this would happen. This is exactly what we don't want for bitcoin. :(

My response is always:  bitcoin is not your forum to push your ideology.

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

How about focusing on exterminating these rich and powerful people?

Dear Mr. Senator:

I write today in response to your recent announcements regarding Silk Road, which as you stated is a web service allowing people to buy and sell drugs and other items anonymously. Many of these traders are located in the United States, making their activity unquestionably illegal.

I expect you will soon receive a deluge of angry letters challenging your stance on drug policy. This is not such a letter. The law is the law and will be enforced. This letter is concerned only with matters of fact, specifically those found in your recent statements on Silk Road and Bitcoin. Much of what you have said is misleading or inaccurate as it stands.

Firstly, there is no reason to believe that Silk Road is operated from within the United States (in fact I suspect it is not). Because of the way in which the Tor anonymity network operates, Silk Road doesn't have a fixed IP address or domain name---only a Tor “hidden service address” that is not actually issued by IANA or any other central authority, and cannot be linked with any location or identity. Incidentally, the Tor anonymity network was created not by rogue hackers but by the US Naval Research Laboratory. More information on how this network operates is available at <http://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en>.

More concerning is that you have mischaracterized Bitcoin, the payment system used at Silk Road, by calling it “an online form of money laundering.” It is possible you were referring only to this service's manner of using Bitcoin, rather than to Bitcoin itself. I hope this is the case, because otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

Bitcoin is a decentralized internet payment system, created in 2009, whose primary feature is that money can be exchanged directly between users without the need for payment processors like PayPal or Popmoney. Bitcoin transactions are mediated not via a central service, but via a distributed network with no single point of failure. This decentralization protects Bitcoin users' financial security and personal privacy. One's “wallet” is stored on one's own computer, rather than on a central server, so fiascos like the recent Epsilon credit card data breach are impossible. Users protect their own privacy instead of delegating that task to a mega-corporation whose interests are often at odds with its users'.

Because Bitcoin is an international network, transactions are not denominated in dollars but rather in “bitcoins,” a new unit of exchange. The value of a bitcoin is not pegged to that of the dollar or any other national currency: it is determined by market forces like the value of any other commodity. Since bitcoins are not issued by a central authority, there is no one to enforce such a peg anyway.

In many ways, Bitcoin is analogous to cash. Like cash, it is absolutely controlled by its holder. Like cash, it can be given and received without fees. Like cash, once spent it is gone---there are no chargebacks or stop-payments. Like cash, its owner is responsible for keeping it secure from thieves. And, like cash, it is difficult to trace. There is no “Bitcoin, Inc.” whose records can be subpoenaed, so tracing bitcoin transactions requires old-fashioned police work.

Because of these features, Bitcoin is now being used for illegal transactions online, just as cash is used for illegal transactions in person. However, demonizing Bitcoin is about as sensible as demonizing cash. Understand that Bitcoin is being used for all sorts of transactions, most of which are quite legitimate. At this very moment there are websites offering clothes, food, web hosting, custom design, market analysis, and real estate, all in exchange for bitcoins. Earlier this weekend I bought a pound of coffee at <http://www.bitbrew.net>. By using bitcoins I've been able to get better prices, since merchants don't have to cover the costs of chargeback fraud or bank fees. The fact that some people also use it for illegal activity only shows that it is an effective and efficient medium of exchange.

Mr. Senator, the fact is that money laundering networks already exist. These networks offer protection only to criminals, while ordinary law-abiding citizens regularly have their identities stolen. Bitcoin, by contrast, extends this offer to everyone. The status quo disrupted by Bitcoin is one in which privacy is the sole privilege of outlaws. If you find that state of affairs desirable, by all means campaign for Bitcoin's destruction.

Respectfully,
Ian Maxwell

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.

Surrogate currency? how about Surrogate representative for the Wall Street bankers?

Could it be a WS banker finally caught up with Bitcoin and shilted his pant, afterward, Schumer got summoned to a corner office and had a long talk?

I don't have a slightest doubt that they are the thing of the past. It's just a matter of time now
I think you are greatly underestimating Bitcoin and it's potential

I'm not sure how effective polite letters to the good senator are anymore. If they worked, we wouldn't be where we are today.

If someone wants to send him a message, it could be along these lines ....

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/043/mtrx-iknow.wav (http://new.wavlist.com/movies/043/mtrx-iknow.wav)

This should be made our official moto

SPOILER: Neo dies in the end. Lets not emulate that.

Schumer is, for all intents and purposes, the Senator from Wall St. (especially since Dodd retired)... the smash-the-corporate-machine rhetoric is probably not preferred by him (whether he's a leftist or not is open to some debate, perhaps)

Let's just make things worse and spray paint giant gold anarchy-esque 'B's on his car and house.

I wouldn't fancy being his sys. admin any time soon ....

This is my first draft of a letter to Mr. Schumer. Any suggestions/critiques?


Notes:

• I've avoided calling bitcoin a "currency" since this is likely to lead to poorly-thought out claims of counterfeiting.
• Likewise, I've avoided any of the smash-the-state rhetoric so common around here. This guy is the state, so I don't imagine he'll be very receptive.
• Instead I'm using the smash-the-corporate-machine rhetoric that leftists prefer.
• My central point is that Bitcoin has legal uses and that there are many reasons for a law-abiding citizen to want to use it.

Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

This is my first draft of a letter to Mr. Schumer. Any suggestions/critiques?

This is an absolutely terrible way for Bitcoin to break out. I was at least hoping firstly we were going to see articles about the positives of Bitcoin before we started seeing about the illegal stuff. Everything we've been working on for months has been to protect Bitcoin from attack. Things like this are frightening if this is a prophecy of future news reporting on Bitcoin.

Please be only a one time thing.

Ian:

Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.


I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."

...and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here."

I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."

However, if law enforcement attempts to develop such tools and techniques to track down "criminals" and do not succeed, it will only reinforce trust in the bitcoin implementation.

If law enforcement can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals using bitcoin they will have effectively proved that bitcoin's implementation does not provide adequate anonymity or security.

Whether or not you agree with what certain people do with bitcoin, it's purpose is to prevent ANY central authority from having control over the financial system.  This includes governments.  If a government has a way to prevent, manipulate, or track transactions at will, then bitcoin will have no purpose whatsoever.

I disagree.

Just like Tor, bitcoin can never be 100% anonymous. An investigation team with enough manpower and time on its hands can track down any bitcoin user, with one exception: The bitcoin user who never spends a single bitcent in his wallet.dat.  But what use are bitcoins if you can't spend them?

However it is anonymous enough for most people going about their daily honest business.  Discovering the identity of bitcoin users takes a large amount of resources, so governemnt will only ever bother going after serious criminals, while ordinary people can enjoy the benefits of financial privacy.



They can't control Bitcoin itself. All they can do is prevent selected individuals from spending their bitcoins using traditional police work.

How about focusing on exterminating these rich and powerful people?

I like the idea of offering campaign contribution in bitcoins (if it were legal)


Very difficult to say no to money, one thing all politicians have in common

I would imagine it's difficult to find a candidate that does not have traditional banking friends in high places though.

Campaign contributions could be made completely anonymously with bitcoin.

Perhaps this is what has got the senator excited with the possibilities?

Ian:

Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.


I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."

If they (a government, large organization, etc) can "prevent selected individuals from spending their bitcoins" as well as track transactions they disapprove of, then what advantage does bitcoin provide except a hedge against inflation?

If you're stance is seriously to encourage "help[ing] law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.", then you are a threat to the idea of bitcoin.  How can I have any confidence at all that you are not attempting to put some sort of backdoors into the client to monitor and track people who use bitcoin?

I agree. If bitcoins only purpose/advantage is as an inflation-hedge, there are numerous things that would serve that function. The major differentiator, in fact the only differentiator that will have a significant impact on economic growth and taxation policy, is bitcoin's potential for user-determined anonymity and untracability.

ie: mostly illegal activity

I don't think that is what Gavin meant, because education works both ways.  For instance, you can point out the ridiculousness of relying on the bitcoin block explorer because bitcoin (private keys) can be exchanged offline on USB sticks or BitBills. Also, education on 'remailer' and 'mixers' would demonstrate to law enforcement that it is impractical to rely on the block chain.

ie: mostly illegal activity

The point of bitcoin is to have freedom from a central authority.  Regardless of how that is used, that is it's main advantage.  If you don't have that, then you might as well continue using government issued currencies or silver and gold, because BTC doesn't offer any other significant advantages that I am aware of.

Not true...people use these all the time to buy groceries and to go on vacation, restaurants, etc.   http://bit.ly/k3rDSO

I don't think that is what Gavin meant, because education works both ways.  For instance, you can point out the ridiculousness of relying on the bitcoin block explorer because bitcoin (private keys) can be exchanged offline on USB sticks or BitBills. Also, education on 'remailer' and 'mixers' would demonstrate to law enforcement that it is impractical to rely on the block chain.

Obviously with enough time, manpower, and resources, it is possible for a government to track down anyone doing anything.

urthermore, I don't think any of us would mind helping law enforcement or in fact anyone to help and find real criminals behind real crimes. Bitcoin is not anonymous - you have to go to great lengths to make it such.

You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.

And when governments world-wide make bitcoin illegal because of the threat it represents to central banking, will your head explode from the irony?

Best rebuttal:

Exactly right. I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

I personally don't think drugs or gambling should be illegal, because I believe you should be free to do whatever you like with your own body and your own money. But I also believe those are separate issues from bitcoin, and if I felt really strongly about it (it isn't one of my own personal hot-button issues) I would be donating money to, or volunteering to work for LEAP and NORML, not mixing "bitcoin is a great new technology" with "drugs should be legal."

And please do tell who gets to decide what a real crime is?  Murder? Drugs? Money laundering? Tax evasion? Using illegal currencies?

You should definitely help those police catch people using illegal currencies.  After all that is domestic terrorism: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/03/22/starting-a-new-currency-is-%E2%80%9Cdomestic-terrorism%E2%80%9D (http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/03/22/starting-a-new-currency-is-%E2%80%9Cdomestic-terrorism%E2%80%9D) .

I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."

I don't know how much letters work.  Special interests own a huge stake in policy making.

Also...if they try to spin this money laundering idea, wouldn't they also have to go after paypal?  I've wondered in the past how many people use ebay/paypal to launder money.

I love my fed-ex guy cause he's a drug dealer and he doesn't even know it...and he's always on time.

ie:Bitcoin will succeed because it's just like cash

I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

Gavin has to be a conforming, tax-paying adult for the sake of the project. Leave him be.

Gavin has to be a conforming, tax-paying adult for the sake of the project. Leave him be.

I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

Exactly right. I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

Are you saying you would want to work on "coin un-mixers", software that attempts to reduce the effectiveness of coin mixers? (Using statistical analyses on the public data of the block chain.)

Are you saying you would want to work on "coin un-mixers", software that attempts to reduce the effectiveness of coin mixers? (Using statistical analyses on the public data of the block chain.)

And I think bitcoin's best path to success will be to work within existing government regulations.

I know it dismays a lot of hardcore crypto-anarchists on this forum, but I am a happy, law abiding, tax paying US citizen :)  And I think bitcoin's best path to success will be to work within existing government regulations.

The vast majority of businesses we want accepting bitcoins are law-abiding businesses, as are the vast majority of people in the world.

If you believe that bitcoin is monetary freedom, as I do, then you don't want to self-select yourself away from the law-abiding world.  I want to spread bitcoin to as many people as possible... not "as many crypto-anarchists as possible"  :)

Sure, there will be setbacks from entrenched interests, but the best way to fight that is to be positive and help build the bitcoin economy.  Soon, the entrenched interests will be joining our economy.

I know it dismays a lot of hardcore crypto-anarchists on this forum, but I am a happy, law abiding, tax paying US citizen :)  And I think bitcoin's best path to success will be to work within existing government regulations.

The vast majority of businesses we want accepting bitcoins are law-abiding businesses, as are the vast majority of people in the world.

If you believe that bitcoin is monetary freedom, as I do, then you don't want to self-select yourself away from the law-abiding world.  I want to spread bitcoin to as many people as possible... not "as many crypto-anarchists as possible"  :)

Sure, there will be setbacks from entrenched interests, but the best way to fight that is to be positive and help build the bitcoin economy.  Soon, the entrenched interests will be joining our economy.

...you wouldn't want to be involved in something like that.

WAIT.... Can I buy slaves??  Me want.

...bitcoins themselves to fall under government regulation of some sort.

Reading this, and thinking about what this kind of rhetorical will set into motion, makes me wonder if the only way for bitcoin to survive and be exchanged in America, is for bitcoins themselves to fall under government regulation of some sort.

I propose we make a donation to the Senator. He's really gone all out to put bitcoin on the map to make sure law-ignorers become aware of bitcoin and it's simply not fair that such effort go unrewarded.

Senator Schumer Donation Address Here:

1G8AUgSTAw8hfatNnDHuYEqBAUzC3qvAAL

I know it dismays a lot of hardcore crypto-anarchists on this forum, but I am a happy, law abiding, tax paying US citizen :)  And I think bitcoin's best path to success will be to work within existing government regulations.

No, regulations will need to adapt to new technologies. Not the other way around.

.
Why he did not bothered with opiates farms in Afghanistan, that is under US control (if US did not lie about it, lol)  ?

Can't even paypal be used for laundering?  If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit?  Should paypal be banned if it enables people to buy drugs anonymously?  Or should paypal credit laundering be banned?

Because he can't admit to such a thing while Chocolate Jesus is president.

Is it your intention to be racially offensive or what?

Exactly right. I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

I personally don't think drugs or gambling should be illegal, because I believe you should be free to do whatever you like with your own body and your own money. But I also believe those are separate issues from bitcoin, and if I felt really strongly about it (it isn't one of my own personal hot-button issues) I would be donating money to, or volunteering to work for LEAP and NORML, not mixing "bitcoin is a great new technology" with "drugs should be legal."

Is it your intention to be racially offensive or what?

We can now expect another BTC rally as new people discover Bitcoin from this article.

However - we can expect the BIG ONE in two years when the yield of a block drops from 50 to 25 BTC at block 210,000

Chuck Schumer is the biggest blowhard in the U.S. Senate. No one takes him seriously and he doesn't stay focused on much long.

A US congressman wakes up to bitcoin on a sleepy sunday morning ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y15NnGZIBuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y15NnGZIBuM)

Unfortunately, being taken seriously and setting policy that gets people shot are two different things in the states at this point.

Unfortunately, I think WE might be the monkeys... The senator is off screen, trying to convince the alpha male of the tribe to throw rocks at it from the cliffside.

This whole damned forum is exceedingly liberal, even by my standards, and as an individual I have had terrible problems with authority my entire life.  This new libertarian standard of no-compromise total war is just too authoritarian for me.

This new libertarian standard of no-compromise total war is just too authoritarian for me.

I suppose technically it could be considered money laundering because you can't trace the source of the money

I've already received a response from one of my Senators' offices (Jim DeMint R SC). I could not return his call in time, today, but will be talking to them tomorrow.

I am presenting this as a registered business owner; that prohibition of Bitcoin will result in a lost economic opportunity for both my state and for the US.

South Carolina has shown a lot of interest and invested a lot of money in attracting and retaining tech businesses. I'll report back, if the call proves fruitful.

Make businesses submit BTC receipts to the IRS for tax purposes?

The only way government will ever support this if it's regulated.  How the hell are they going to regulate this?  Make businesses submit BTC receipts to the IRS for tax purposes?

Good luck, Fhtagn!  Here's a strange coincidence - I just happened to begin reading some Lovecraft when you made this post.  I cannot hazard a guess at the fortune of this.

oh man...

block #210,001 is going to be EPIC.

Good luck, Fhtagn!  Here's a strange coincidence - I just happened to begin reading some Lovecraft when you made this post.  I cannot hazard a guess at the fortune of this.

Except that's not how legislatures work. Other people in the Senate have to take him seriously for him to get anything done. And they don't.

Looking at the hidden wiki, I counted 13 - that's thirteen - sites similar to Silk Road on Tor, some of which also accepted Bitcoin. I didn't look deeply into all of them, though. This does indicate, however, that this isn't going away.

I also see that this is bitcoin, and the problem is with SR. Sure the site is using bitcoin, but it could just as easily have used USD notes.

Also I was wondering how illegal is SR? They don't actually sell drugs themselves, they are simply an intermediary, matching up traders. SR themselves aren't doing anything illegal AFAIK (please tell me otherwise).

Try selling that to the three percenters.

In a perfect world, I'd agree.

I think this is the working definition of three percenter: http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-three-percenter.html

Anyone who thinks this is about drugs and not Bitcoin is a moron frankly.

Anyone who thinks this is about drugs and not Bitcoin is a moron frankly.

Also I was wondering how illegal is SR? They don't actually sell drugs themselves, they are simply an intermediary, matching up traders. SR themselves aren't doing anything illegal AFAIK (please tell me otherwise).

(h) Offenses involving dispensing of controlled substances by means of the Internet
(1) In general
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly or intentionally—
(A) deliver, distribute, or dispense a controlled substance by means of the Internet, except as authorized by this subchapter; or
(B) aid or abet (as such terms are used in section 2 of title 18) any activity described in subparagraph (A) that is not authorized by this subchapter.
(2) Examples
Examples of activities that violate paragraph (1) include, but are not limited to, knowingly or intentionally—
(A) delivering, distributing, or dispensing a controlled substance by means of the Internet by an online pharmacy that is not validly registered with a modification authorizing such activity as required by section 823 (f) of this title (unless exempt from such registration);
(B) writing a prescription for a controlled substance for the purpose of delivery, distribution, or dispensation by means of the Internet in violation of section 829(e) of the title;
(C) serving as an agent, intermediary, or other entity that causes the Internet to be used to bring together a buyer and seller to engage in the dispensing of a controlled substance in a manner not authorized by sections [2] 823(f) or 829(e) of this title;
(D) offering to fill a prescription for a controlled substance based solely on a consumer’s completion of an online medical questionnaire; and
(E) making a material false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation in a notification or declaration under subsection (d) or (e), respectively, of section 831 of this title.

Do you really think the government is that stupid?

ie: mostly illegal activity

Are we there already?:



"... and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark ... "



Its a quote from a famous book.  Don't think its talking about the German Deutch mark   ?



Or have we already been there all along?



Is Bitcoin a threat to freedom of commerce medium, or is it providing wider medium choice?

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

Reading a book and spamming multiple forum threads simultaneously, are you some kind of AI bot?

I know there are forum rules, but at what point can I say mean things about this guy?

'the farmers market' has been around for 11yrs almost and is 'the ebay of drug selling' but they're more discreet about it since they use traceable payments through Pecunix and have PayPal cashiers.

there's around a dozen forums like p1ponline that are full of vendors. most of the hacker forums have drug sellers in europe, this is nothing new just Gawker made it sensationaltastic and buddy needs votes i guess.

lol @ 'seize the silk road domain' deerp tor

really all they can do is pose as sellers selling enormous amounts of drugs and hope to snare somebody. or attempt to trace a large bitcoin payment into cash that makes it's way back to the vendor.... would be very difficult in court for any lawyer to prove the coins that went through escrow and a half dozen other addresses were all headed to you specifically for drugs. much easier to get the low hanging fruit like all those illegal epharma websites making multi millions a year

it could me done by mixing a large amount of btc in the mixer, so others will mix to your btc, insted of anonymous ones

Stop doing his homework.

 Schumer co-authored the AWB.  Do yours.

The what?

I heard about this on irc last night.

I wasn't quite sure what to make of it, felt a little worried, and then I checked Mt.Gox

There was a big drop and then a swift recovery at this news, and we've been fairly steady since. What this means is, that the market (the wisest among us) was spooked for a short time, and then after a little analysis dissmissed it. It's as free a market as there is, and it has spoken.

Stop paying your taxes, stop filing paperwork with the Enemy.  Stop participating in the Enemy's staged political show.

Check the timing a little more carefully.  I'm pretty sure the sell-off had already started before the Schumer story, and was mostly finished by the time the story broke.  It actually started recovering around the time the story went to press.  cbw...

Drug Policy Alliance discussed a new report put together by the Global Commission on Drug Policy that concludes that the global war on drugs has failed.

Given this Global Commission on Drug Policy report (http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report), i think the plan to incorporate Bitcoin into America's self-serving "War on Drugs" is going to be a non-starter.

I know there are forum rules, but at what point can I say mean things about this guy?

Sounds like "buddha" can't remove his tongue from the bottom of the government's boot heel, and quite frankly, sounds a lot like them with his twisted morality.

mjsbuddha, understand that you have ZERO say in what I, or anyone else chooses to put in their own bodies. The fact that you feel you somehow have a right or duty to impose your ideals of behavior on others is really sickening to me. You want to shut down a website cause you don't like it?!?! Why don't you work on yourself first?

Read the first sentence in the text you quoted a few times. If you still think your reply is relevant you should probably just stop posting.

You should try leading the last sentence in the text he quoted.

Sites like Silk Road are going to make governments stop Bitcoin from getting widespread use

I got off of the phone with Senator Jim DeMint's(R SC) DC office, a short while ago.

While I didn't speak to the Senator, I talked to a member of his staff that was: already aware of Bitcoin and how it works, has visited this forum, and was aware of Gavin's coming trip to the CIA. He agreed that this is an interesting technology with market potential.

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

Sort of like how they have made government stop marijuana from having widespread use. Right?

Sites like Silk Road are going to make governments stop Bitcoin from getting widespread use, so you have to choose between having sites like this and the success of Bitcoin. It's a simple cause and affect, and saying that he would prefer the success of Bitcoin over the availability of such sites doesn't mean he likes it. In fact he's just said he doesn't like it. You are shooting the messenger.

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

You don't have to connect to a global open grid on the internet every time you want to use marijuana.

it probably doesn't help matters that there is a service called the Bitcoin Laundry listed on the "who accepts bitcoins" page

and that's so thin that they can't even keep heroin out of their own prisons.

As an illegal good, bitcoin would be MUCH safer on a per-user basis than weed. Especially considering the fact that in order to enforce laws against it, they will have to spread themselves even thinner than they are, and that's so thin that they can't even keep heroin out of their own prisons as it is.

I'm just wondering does this include any sort of modification to the client especially such which would give the LEAs special privileges?

Not getting an answer to this question has me a little bit worried.

Not getting an answer to this question has me a little bit worried.

Although it should - because the fact that there is a service dedicated to laundering ought to indicate that bitcoin itself does not serve that function. But unfortunately, the old media doesn't think too good. Either that or they are really just as corrupt as the government on which they depend.

Bitcoin is not money so you can launder it as much as you like I think .... unless they are officially recognising it as money?

Jumbling up crypto tokens on a website for an on-line game is what exactly?

I got off of the phone with Senator Jim DeMint's(R SC) DC office, a short while ago.

While I didn't speak to the Senator, I talked to a member of his staff that was: already aware of Bitcoin and how it works, has visited this forum, and was aware of Gavin's coming trip to the CIA. He agreed that this is an interesting technology with market potential.

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

When will people realize that it doesn't matter what government thinks about a 'crypto math puzzle'.

Have the politically-correct co-opted the Forum lately? When will people realize that it doesn't matter what government thinks about a 'crypto math puzzle'.  Nor , does it matter if they like it or support it.  It doesn't even matter if the population likes bitcoin. I don't like US Dollars and the promise-of-a-promise Euro currency, but I still accept them.

There are people here who view Bitcoin as nothing more than an opportunity to stick it to the man, for the sheer malice of the act.  The benefits of the system itself are secondary to the damage it could do to the people in power, from their perspective.

This attitude is in its own way as savage as the corruption that has driven so many of us to distrust our own governments.

This attitude is in its own way as savage as the corruption that has driven so many of us to distrust our own governments.

May I enquire as to whether any tools have arisen from any help you've given to LE, and whether those tools, scripts, or techniques (thought-work) are also available to the rest of us?

I just came across this excellent article on Schumer's 'moral' crusade that I thought you all might enjoy:

Chuck Schumer’s New War on Bitcoin
http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/chuck-schumers-new-war-on-bitcoin/

No, not when these authorities commit massive amounts of holocaust and malice against its people and never cease.

There is a very real difference between the revolutionary spirit and the thirst for revenge.  I maintain that animosity towards one's own government is just as bad as a government's animosity towards its own people.  Either of those things is a sign of deep social sickness.  I want change, but I have no use for harm or havoc in themselves.

Two names in the compounding list - just in the last year or so:
Jose Guerena.
Erik Scott.

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

Wait till the feds get their Quatum computers (yes they exist) on this.  Unfortunately, they could easily destabilize the bitcoin market with enough computing power.... which they can afford.  :'(

I'll post any responses I get, though I don't expect any.

In my opinion, it would be a huge threat to Bitcoin if the government kept calling it "money laundering" and so forth. While that may be true, I have no need for a currency that is limited to black market usage. If businesses and ordinary individuals aren't adopting it, what's the point?.....
I think we need to do something to reach the masses. Maybe a bunch of us pool together to take out a billboard in some heavily populated area like LA. If we can associate Bitcoin with ideas like "currency," "convenient," "replace PayPal," "secure," and so on, that would be a great first step. There's other obvious things that need work too, like making it easier to get Bitcoins.

Wait till the feds get their Quatum computers (yes they exist) on this.  Unfortunately, they could easily destabilize the bitcoin market with enough computing power.... which they can afford.  :'(

That's assuming that the entirety of gov't WANTS it shutdown....

With potential currency crises looming "they" may want several alternatives squarely in place to keep goods and services flowing.

"They" would only want that if "they" can control it. You think they give a wet fart if people starve to death?

I've seen a lot of mob mentality lately. From people unquestioningly opposing WikiLeaks because their government opposed it to people cheering when the guy who wrote "The Pedophile's Guide to Love" on Amazon got arrested for simply publishing a book, I've come to the conclusion that although most people *say* they want freedom, they really don't. Freedom implies taking responsibility for your own actions, including when you make mistakes. People don't seem to like that.

I thought every transactions is visible to everyone?
So bitcoin is not really anonymous, right?

I only read the first couple pages of this thread, but here's my opinion.

I've seen a lot of mob mentality lately. From people unquestioningly opposing WikiLeaks because their government opposed it to people cheering when the guy who wrote "The Pedophile's Guide to Love" on Amazon got arrested for simply publishing a book, I've come to the conclusion that although most people *say* they want freedom, they really don't. Freedom implies taking responsibility for your own actions, including when you make mistakes. People don't seem to like that.

In my opinion, it would be a huge threat to Bitcoin if the government kept calling it "money laundering" and so forth. Even though US dollars can also be used to purchase illegal things anonymously, if people get angry or scared enough, trying to correct their misconceptions will be like whispering to someone at a rock concert. People here have said that Bitcoin would simply become a black market item and gain even more value. While that may be true, I have no need for a currency that is limited to black market usage. If businesses and ordinary individuals aren't adopting it, what's the point?

I think we need to do something to reach the masses. Maybe a bunch of us pool together to take out a billboard in some heavily populated area like LA. If we can associate Bitcoin with ideas like "currency," "convenient," "replace PayPal," "secure," and so on, that would be a great first step. There's other obvious things that need work too, like making it easier to get Bitcoins. As it stands, the average person isn't going to go through all the trouble. It'd be nice if there were a way to link your bank account to a site (like how PayPal does it) and use that to get Bitcoins instantly.

I've come to the conclusion that although most people *say* they want freedom, they really don't.

I have no need for a currency that is limited to black market usage.

Does anybody have the full text of the open letter? Mr. Google is failing me when I search for it...

http://images5.cpcache.com/product/546402495v6_480x480_Front_Color-Black.jpg
http://www.cafepress.com/bitcointeeshirts.546402495

If you were talking about Schumer's letter to DOJ & DEA ....
http://pastebin.com/VurF7dgr

Interesting, I hadn't realised that there was such a thing as "an illegal website" in America, illegal content yes but a website that's illegal?

And they want to seize the domain, that's sweet.

Welcome to the People's Republic of America.

If you were talking about Schumer's letter to DOJ & DEA ....
http://pastebin.com/VurF7dgr