Bitcoin Forum

I've seen several posts where Blockstream/Core supporters seem to be encouraging DDOS attacks on Classic Nodes.  I do not think it will work for a simple reason... because I see support for Classic growing very fast.  Who you going to attack when there will be So Many Classic Nodes popping up!  

But this is a REMINDER TO ALL...... be prepared to launch Classic Hard & Fast!  This is going to be a battle, albeit a short one.  A Clear Message needs to be sent that Bitcoin Classic IS Bitcoin.  That the Bitcoin Community is in Concensus.  Its going to be ALL HANDS ON DECK when that Bitcoin Classic Download button goes active.  Everybody upgrade.

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And I want to make perfectly clear how the Supporters of Blockstream/Core are acting as they publically admit support of DDOSing Classic Nodes.

They are admitting they will do anything it takes to get their way..... EXCEPT THAT THEY WILL.......

1) NOT Vote in a Fair Concensus Fashion.  
2) NOT Submit BIPs for fair consideration to the broader Bitcoin Community .  
3) NOT Dialogue (in non-censored fashion) with other Developers in an attempt to get the best bitcoin possible.  

They Resort to.......

DDOS Attacks!  FUD!  Lying!  Threatening!  Intimidation!

JUST TO BE CLEAR...... THIS is what Blockstream/Core is all about.

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and....


So sad.  It is clear that Classic is going to prevail, and all Blockstream/Core Supporters can resort to is illegal actions.

I think so many people had hoped that Blockstream/Core would professionally and responsibly accept that the overwhelming majority of the Bitcoin Community simply disagrees with their roadmap, and they would sigh deeply, but graciously accept defeat and join the greater effort to improve and strengthen Bitcoin.....  continuing to work on Sidechain/Lightening.

But Blockstream/Core Supporters have chosen a scorched earth policy.  Burn everything Bitcoin if they can't have it.  This is how everyone associated with Blocksteam/Core will be remembered.  Including all the investors, who will soon start being listed. 

And who are the people behind Blockstream?

Reid Hoffman / Co-Founder of LinkedIn
Vinod Khosla / Founder of Sun Microsystems
Eric Schmidt / Google
Jerry Yang / Yahoo Founder
also.. Nicolas Berggruen, Crypto Currency Partners, Future\Perfect Ventures, Danny Hillis, Max Levchin, Mosaic Ventures, Ray Ozzie, Ribbit Capital... and others.

These are some of the biggest investors.  So here is my question....

What do these individuals / investor groups think of how this is being handled?  Are they happy that Blockstream/Core Governance team doesn't seem to be able to play well with the rest of the community, and is slowly destroying their reputation at the Bitcoin Table?  Are they happy with the lack of professionalism being shown?

I mean.... Bitcoin could be argued to be the biggest thing since the Internet itself.  I wonder if these investment entities are happy with the way their investment is being handled.  I wonder if they approve of the way decisions are being made, and of this incredibly toxic war that is being waged by those associated with their investment?

Or are they actually THE puppet masters pulling the strings?

Regardless, I cannot imagine that these reputations will escape unsmeared as well - once the Blockstream/Core rebellion has been crushed.  Plenty of distaste and ridicule and boycotting to go around I suppose.

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I forgot to add one....

They Resort to.......

DDOS Attacks!  FUD!  Lying!  Threatening!  Intimidation! AND CENSORSHIP!

JUST TO BE CLEAR...... THIS is what Blockstream/Core is all about.

ALSO TO BE CLEAR.... this is a discussion about the Current Governance of the Current Bitcoin-Core.

There are big corporate interests behind both Blockstream and some of the companies that support Classic.

WHO CARES PEOPLE.

I'm sick of these forum idiots and conspiracy theories that
think there's some grand plan to "infiltrate Bitcoin by the banksters" etc...

Yes conspiracies are sometimes real but not everything
is a conspiracy.  

The world is usually much simpler than that.  Everyone is out for
themselves to make a buck.  That's how business works.  
In fact, pretty much everyone in the world is concerned
with their own agenda.  

Blockstream is NO DIFFERENT in that regard.  They
want to "scale" Bitcoin THEIR WAY that suits their
interests.  

I really don't understand why some people can't
get that through their head.








 

In Africa, when a flock of ostriches sees a pride of lions coming to eat them, they just stick their heads down in the sand and POOF!
The lions just magically disappear.

I care. I care what the governance team of Bitcoin is.  I care about who is standing behind it.  

With Blockstream/Core I see Big Name Tech Insiders.  I see dirty tricks, bad morals, untrustworthiness, scattered mini-centralization in chains, and total loss of privacy.

With Classic I see Big Name Tech Insiders, Small Banks, Large Banks, Independent Companies, and Mainstream Users in General.  I see sound decision making, unselfish and flexible paths, widespread de-centralization, and increased individual privacy protections.

So yes, I care, and I think it is important for everyone to see the facts of what is going on beyond the smoke and mirrors lying FUD illusion that Blockstream/Core is trying to paint.

You bring up a good point... there are many banks and all competing with each other.

But some people here seem to have listened to one too many Alex Jones shows
(nothing against AJ, he's great)...and somehow think that the illuminati or
the bilderbergs or the bohemian club or whatever is in complete control
of all the "banksters" and the banks as a collective are conspiring to
take over bitcoin by pushing for bigger blocks so that it
becomes more 'centralized'... its the most ridiculous idea.

But yes, people are really saying stuff like "Hearn is a Bankster Shill"
... so deluded.

If the elite/deepstate/powers-that-be really do have as
much power as some people think, and if they were really
out to stop bitcion, there would be much
more effective things they would be doing.

OK... Admittedly occassionally guilty.  I DO think that XT was an idiotic and uncontrolled mess, and I do think that the only group that would have stood to gain the most off of it were the huge banks.  All this talk of stuffing the blocks with Ledger info etc...  But I am NOT necessarily against that.... I am just against extremes.  Mike represented the extreme to me.  Blockstream/Core represents the opposite extreme.   Interestingly, I see BOTH of those paths as leading to Centralization and Loss of Privacy.  Hearns path I saw giving it to the existing Fiat (even if unintentionally).  Blockstream/Core I see giving it to a "New Breed of Fiat" - the tech giants.  I can see Google, Apple, Facebook and handful of other companies running everything through App based Private Chains - and slowly but surely squeezing out the smaller chains.

I like Classic because it allows a slow, methodical growth curve.  I just feel like allowing everyone to fight it out equally and fairly will result in a better long term system of checks and balances.  Do I still think Fiat Banks or Fiat Fintech will abuse.  Yes.  It will always be there.

But my biggest beef is that Mike is associated with Classic at all by name/reputation in this current scenario.   I think he is a genius, blah blah blah, but I DO think he is a bit biased towards the wishes of his current paycheck providers, just like Blockstream/Core is with their paymasters/funders.

And yes, I think Mike went a bit unnecessarily whiny at the end, and my guess is that once he's cooled off he may (at least privately) be embarrassed by his behavior.  I actually WISH he'd just quietly backed Classic and been done with it.

But honestly he is irrelevant to Bitcoin at present in my opinion.  Deesn't mean he (or members of Blockstream/Core) can't/won't be enormous contributors down the road..... but damnit we need to get this Fork underway and done.

Wow. Is this still you? This post actually looks and sounds sane.

I almost don't recognize it without the caps/bold/large font,etc...

Guess it depends on who is clocked in  ;D

Good one!  8)

This^
I would hate to see the big corruptions get leverage in bitcoin

When can you download and run classic?

When you're telling outrageous lies like this, you might also want to make up some fake evidence to support them-- no one would would believe the unsubstantiated tripe would bother to fact check, and a few people who wouldn't would also not bother to fact check.  Just a tip.  Cheers!

http://puu.sh/mzCSY/7c554ceb5d.png (https://twitter.com/realmicroguy/status/688871162848366596)

https://twitter.com/realmicroguy/status/688871162848366596

My Man G!  It IS sad isn't it.  Blockstream/Core has absolutely no shame it seems  :(

But I'm preaching to the choir with you I guess.  You obviously know all this.  Guess that's why you got out Huh?  Hows the vacation treating you?  You musta needed a break after dealing with those nuts!

Good Luck G!  

Alley, I'd say just keep an eye on the front page of the www.BitcoinClassic.com website.  When that front page "download link" goes hot - then its Game On Baby! 

I'm told maybe 2 weeks?  +/-  Working out tweeks doing due diligence. 

I see crappo xapo on the list of supported.. ya know them corporation mother fkrs.

I tried Xapo, and they pissed me off.  I went through all this work to get an account, and then in tiny fine print somewhere I get notified that I can't actually get their debit card because it isn't offered in USA.  And I've used Coinbase & Circle, and I don't totally trust them either.  JP Morgan Chase holds my Mortgage - I really don't want to get into all the trickery involved there.  My local bank is a big regional - BB&T.  Overall OK, but if I am late on a personal line of credit payment they wouldn't hesitate to go evil on me.  And then there is Bob down the street.  He borrowed my RotoTiller and fucked it up.  My brother-n-law borrowed some money from me a while back, and I guess I have seen the last of that.

My point is this.... All of these institutions and individuals have proven to be untrustworthy to me at some point.  And I am quite sure I have probably screwed some people in my lifetime as well.

And soon, every entity, including you and I will be able to own and operate in Bitcoin.  And some of us will do honorably, and some will Suck.  But the market forces will work it out.  Kind of like Bob.  No way does that asshole get to borrow my shit anymore!

But it is a big world, and the more open and widely used Bitcoin is.... the more choices I have to either interact with, or not interact with.  Blockstream/Core wants to limit my choices severely, and I don't like that.

I would like to say Keep calm! :P
There is no war in the bitcoin community and all we seek for a solution. We are in the same side. The people that was in the other side they have left already bitcoin community.

I have one simple request of you. Show rock solid, indisputable proof to back up your claims that Core is backed by big banks, that there is a massive conspiracy to attack Classic nodes by core (this does not include the comments of a single person), and that there really is a surge in Classic nodes and its popularity. Your behavior is definitely not the behavior of someone on the winning side. Because thus far, all you have done is filled threads you've made against Core with projection, ad-hominem attacks, lies, personal incredulity fallacies and strawman attacks against everybody who doesn't support Classic. So show me proof of your claims, and I might just support Classic.

You'll have to ignore OP. His mind ain't right.  :-[

Maybe I should go on a schizophrenic campaign like OP to increase my activity, it sure make me a member pretty quick  ;)

The vitriol on both sides has been escalating; There isn't a gif on Earth to do it justice.

What is a lie? that people have been supporting the idea of DDOS?

OP, do you have a link?  What are we talking about ?

I have one simple request of you. Show rock solid, indisputable proof to back up your claims that Core is backed by big banks, that there is a massive conspiracy to attack Classic nodes by core (this does not include the comments of a single person), and that there really is a surge in Classic nodes and its popularity. Your behavior is definitely not the behavior of someone on the winning side. Because thus far, all you have done is filled threads you've made against Core with projection, ad-hominem attacks, lies, personal incredulity fallacies and strawman attacks against everybody who doesn't support Classic. So show me proof of your claims, and I might just support Classic.
[/quote]


My God what sissy's you sound like.  You mud slinging, wild accusation throwing nuts finally meet someone who punches back, and you start whining like school girls.  Actually girls today would kick your worthless butts.

Lets Be Clear..... it is called Karma.  If you want to fight and play at the bigboy table, learn to take a punch without so much crying.  Better get used to the fact that it isn't a one sided fight anymore.  You bold loudmouthed bullies have been abusing your authority over Bitcoin, and now you are getting ready to lose that control, and suddenly you start sounding all reasonable.  Give me a break.

There were attacks on XT nodes, there will be attacks on Classic nodes. But OP is suggesting that Core is organizing them.

he said "supporters of core"... and i wouldn't put it past them, that sounds like exactly the kind of thing some of
them would advocate.  Still, I would like a link from the OP to show us what he means.

Whining like school girls? Oh that's shame, back to the ad-hominem attacks, are we? I'm certainly not scared of anyone who can't provide proof to back up their claims.

I have found several examples.  I provided 2 examples on post # 2 < https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1331325.msg13585499#msg13585499 >

And I won't waste time providing all the evidence for the DDOS activity regarding XT, some even from the DDOSers themselves claiming they were PAID to do so.  It's all out there.   Everybody knows it.

It's all in the Blockstream/Core Supporter Playbook: 1st you Censor it, then you Lie, then you confuse with FUD, and as a last resort you DDOS.  It's all there, and everybody knows it.

And now that they are on the brink of losing control of Bitcoin - they suddenly start sounding rational.  But they've used that before.... misdirection.  Nobody is falling for it anymore.  No more wasting time with even pretending that we are dealing with rational people.

I wasn't aware that there weren't attacks on Classic nodes yet, as the story has changed depending on which thread you visit. No doubt XT  has been attacked, but we can only speculate as to who did these attacks right now. Sorry for getting that wrong.

Well to be fair, he said a lot of things. No doubt Core supporters will be involved. They took out an entire town during the XT attacks.

How about?

http://s12.postimg.org/hgfikqk99/anim_shirl_dance.gif

"It's all out there" and "Everybody knows it" don't count as proof. Seeing as though you admitted yourself that you "won't waste time providing all the evidence" I think I'm gonna conclude that I was just a bit too optimistic to expect a reasonable argument from you. You have fun with your shitposting.

Full disclosure: I had a perfectly reasonable, non-slanderous Blockstream thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1305286.msg13575146#msg13575146) going until OP fouled it up with lunacy. :-[

Perfect

What are you talking about?  He just provided 2 clear examples where core supporters are advocating DDOS. Check the link.
  
So again I would ask gmax, what is a lie exactly?

I'm one of those Gavinista-types. Make sure to pin every stupid thing I say on Mr. Andresen going forward.

Well that's just plain silly nonsense!  Gavinista types don't say stupid things!  You've hit your head I fear.  Confused the parties!

Take 2 aspirin and get a good nights rest.  You'll be a total ass again by morning - good as new!

Lol. Seriously, core should just increase the blocksize to 2MB in a regular maintenance update. They could even roll this into release candidate v0.12.0. It was never intended to be a consensus rule - only a temporary measure.

~~

"Satoshi is a missed benevolent dictator. Leaderless core must now find a way to tame their egos & reject conflicting temptations." ~ MicroGuy

Just don't rage-quit. I'm sure we can all work this out as a team. Non-consensual soft-fork or contentious hard-fork. Either way, it will only hurt for a moment.

Would you care for a Soma?  :)

This is the best question nobody has answered yet:

Ask Greg Maxwell, he was in this thread for a second.
Is he still part of "core"?

Certainly if he was for it, it would happen.
Ask him why's he's not.

Isn't it reeeeeally not faaaaaair that nobody can DDOS Bitcoin, but _Classic is going to be nuked with state-backed (La Serenissima) agency levels of IP fury?

How terrrrrrible that anyone stupid enough to attack Bitcoin and risk $5 billion of other people's money in catastrophic consensus failure will be obliterated.  UDP is permissionless?  Aaaaawwwee, tough luck little fellah.

Coinbase is built to withstand 100Gb/s DDOS?  That's cute.  MP is probably building a Starkiller Base capable of hitting all attacking nodes, Coinbase, and the rest of the Blockchain Alliance with 500Gb/s for weeks.

When Coinbase's ISP/CDN/COLO get turned into smoking, glowing craters and Brian is told to find other providers to paint a giant target on, that's going to entail a lot of downtime.

If you understand Bitcoin at all, you understand it necessarily confers all possible advantages to its defenders, and all possible disadvantages to attackers.  EG:

How many dollars and customers does Coinbase lose every minute it's down?  How much reputation and potential business does it lose with every "Coinbase blasted off the internet!" story in the press and electronic media?

I don't know, but I'm sure it's much more than Coinbase's investors want to lose in a futile, aggressive war of choice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression).

It's unreasonable to expect "rock solid, indisputable proof". However, he has presented exactly zero evidence of anything... yet is presenting it as if obvious...

It's also interesting that, now that Hearn is out of the game, these apparent shills (or, alternatively, cheerleading fanboy followers), have no problem throwing him under the bus!

Like this master of projection ("keepdoing") said: "No more wasting time with even pretending that we are dealing with rational people."