0bit
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January 17, 2016, 02:46:41 AM |
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What a loaded poll. I love how quick Classic supporters are to assume that Classic will actually be successful and trigger a hard fork. I don't know which side to take in this whole debacle because real discussion and debate has been replaced by threads like these, which remind me of the kind of fights infants get in to. Anybody who was truly confident in their cause would not have to create a thread like this.
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 17, 2016, 02:48:20 AM |
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You need to add (After classic gets Ddosed back to the stone age people will rejoice in fighting off this coordinated takeover by legacy banks. )
By the way.... just to point out..... you've publically just admitted to supporting DDOSing Classic Nodes if that is what it takes to get your way.
Not Voting in a Fair Concensus Fashion. Not Submitting BIPs. Not Dialoguing (in non-censored fashion) with other Developers in an attempt to get the best bitcoin possible. NO!
DDOS Attacks! FUD! Lying! Threatening! Intimidation!
JUST TO BE CLEAR...... THIS is what Blockstream/Core is all about.* How the ForK do I change my Vote to Option #B!? |
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0bit
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January 17, 2016, 02:55:53 AM |
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You need to add (After classic gets Ddosed back to the stone age people will rejoice in fighting off this coordinated takeover by legacy banks. )
By the way.... just to point out..... you've publically just admitted to supporting DDOSing Classic Nodes if that is what it takes to get your way.
Not Voting in a Fair Concensus Fashion. Not Submitting BIPs. Not Dialoguing (in non-censored fashion) with other Developers in an attempt to get the best bitcoin possible. NO!
DDOS Attacks! FUD! Lying! Threatening! Intimidation!
JUST TO BE CLEAR...... THIS is what Blockstream/Core is all about.* How the ForK do I change my Vote to Option #B!?Because the comments of a single person can accurately describe an entire group. Explain the mental gymnastics you used to reach that conclusion, please. |
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Erkallys
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January 17, 2016, 02:57:17 AM |
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You need to add (After classic gets Ddosed back to the stone age people will rejoice in fighting off this coordinated takeover by legacy banks. )
By the way.... just to point out..... you've publically just admitted to supporting DDOSing Classic Nodes if that is what it takes to get your way.
Not Voting in a Fair Concensus Fashion. Not Submitting BIPs. Not Dialoguing (in non-censored fashion) with other Developers in an attempt to get the best bitcoin possible. NO!
DDOS Attacks! FUD! Lying! Threatening! Intimidation!
JUST TO BE CLEAR...... THIS is what Blockstream/Core is all about.* How the ForK do I change my Vote to Option #B!?You can't change your vote once you have submitted it. If DDoSing nodes is te only way to prevent Bitcoin Classic is to do this, if it has been clearly explained that it was bad, wouldn't be something bad. |
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0bit
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January 17, 2016, 03:11:49 AM |
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~~
The banks have figured out recently that private blockchains are mostly just a crippled version of Bitcoin. Some of the old timers here might remember the first intranets where you could send email around the office, but external mail was still USPS and FedEx.
It wasn't until the internet that the office became one giant global intranet. It's the same with Bitcoin. So now, the banks have decided that the best way to proceed is to co-opt bitcoin and become its master. This is the only way to protect legacy systems which are their bread and butter. Once Bitcoin is under their control, they can decide whether to kill it, or when to turn up the volume. It will be their puppet to do is as they wish.
So as a community, it's important to be able to identity red flags, like Hearns wanting to block China, or Circlepay offering tonight to help test Bitcoin Classic. I think if we can protect bitcoin from these forces, the technical issues will resolve themselves.
Every line of code that changes needs to be diligently studied. It's the "spirit" of Satoshi's bitcoin that needs be so fiercely protected.
~~
I agree. I think the discussion of who to support needs to become more serious and we certainly need to start looking closely at the red flags you listed. Investors who are skeptical of Bitcoin, as well as authoritarians who fear the power that is being given to individuals through Bitcoin will undoubtedly be looking to co-opt every proposal they can. I do think that the decision that Bitcoin makes will ultimately determine whether the network will have a future or not. |
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jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
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January 17, 2016, 03:39:41 AM |
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And so it starts, as we count down the days to the Bitcoin Classic Hard Fork....
Blockstream/Core supporters are spewing ::: FUD. Bitterness. Denial. Sabotage.
But with broad consensus and support on all sides, it is apparent that Classic will prevail, and soon this legacy of Blockstream/Core will be over, their little attempted takeover of Bitcoin ended. I wonder how they will be remembered and treated afterwards. Personally I say let some other team introduce sidechains if they are to be supported. Its just code. Somebody else will rise up and do a proper sidechain - without trying to cripple bitcoin in the process. But what do you think? How do you think they should be treated? Vote in the poll.www.BitcoinClassic.com <<<Get On Board And Ride the Wave To New Highs Baby!!! It seems you don't care about bitcoin. Stop this nonsense. Think. If classic is deployed, it will fracture bitcoin community, you can bet your coins the value will drop drastically. Network will split which might create multiple flavours of "bitcoin". Where do people get this idea, core is bad, classic is good. Miners might shoot themselves in the foot by selecting classic. Bitcoin price will collapse and people will not touch it for a very long time. People will walk away. Mining worthless coins will not continue for long. Instead they should follow core roadmap, IMHO. I'll take that bet. I say Classic will boost Bitcoin price drastically. Everyone will be cheering that the scalability impasse has been bridged and that the era of centralized development is over! |
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tss
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January 17, 2016, 06:44:31 AM |
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any way you title it.. we are once again discussing alt coins,
just like the xt threads, this belongs in the alt coin section.
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Erkallys
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January 17, 2016, 11:13:29 AM |
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keepdoing, I'm still waiting for an explanation that come from you. If you're confident enough in it, you should at least be able to explain me why it is so good.
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 17, 2016, 12:40:02 PM |
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keepdoing, I'm still waiting for an explanation that come from you. If you're confident enough in it, you should at least be able to explain me why it is so good.
Well, it is simple really. Bitcoin is about decentralization. It's about "Bitcoin For the People". You can't have that when you have a Centralized Governance Team - i.e. Blockstream/Core - that has major conflicts of interest, and who rule through methods of Censorship, FUD, Lies, Manipulation, Shrill Screeching when things don't go their way etc.The concept of Classic is incredibly simple: 1) Listen to the wishes of the Overwhelming Majority of the Community, and get on with what needs to be done, which in this instance is a small, reasonable Blocksize increase. 2) I'm going to quote the actual www.BitcoinClassic.com website on the next item.... "In the future we will continue to release updates that are in line with Satoshi’s whitepaper & vision, and are agreed upon by the community."3) Which brings us to the issue of Governance. Steps 1 & 2 are critical to Governance. A governance team that doesn't listen to the wishes of its people..... is not for the people. And a Governance Team that strays from the path towards a path that is in their own selfish interests..... cannot be trusted. And a Governance Team that employs the methods of rulership/leadership as outlined in bold above.... well, is not good at all. But the main thing I like about Classic is this...... It allows for all possibilities. We get to take the chains off Bitcoin..... slowly, carefully and in controlled fashion.... and continue growing and testing the possibilities. I believe we haven't even touched the edges of the capabilities of Bitcoin. Blockstream/Core though is like one of these helicopter parents.... forever hovering, fearful, saying "you can't do this", or "Oh No - Be Careful you'll hurt yourself" You've got to back off and let the kid grow up! That's Blockstream/Core parenting. On the other end of spectrum was Mike Hearn/XT parenting.... just let the kid run wild with no discipline, no rules or restrictions whatsoever. BOTH are extremes, and bad examples of parenting. The Classic Team will guide Bitcoin, but not smother it. As it grows it will have many adventures. It will encounter all types of financial friends. Some good. Some evil. But it is the LIFE OF A FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT! I say let it grow and explore the world. |
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jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
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January 17, 2016, 01:09:45 PM |
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The concept of Classic is incredibly simple:
1) Listen to the wishes of the Overwhelming Majority of the Community, and get on with what needs to be done, which in this instance is a small, reasonable Blocksize increase.
Yeah this. Pretty freakin simple. The <start doofus voice> WELL WE WANT TO RAISE THE LIMIT WE JUST CANT AGREE HOW</end doofus voice> is a tired, lame, bogus meme that is no longer holding any water. |
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 17, 2016, 01:45:35 PM |
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The Classic Team will guide Bitcoin, but not smother it. As it grows it will have many adventures. It will encounter all types of financial friends. Some good. Some evil. But it is the LIFE OF A FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT! I say let it grow and explore the world.
If you want Bitcoin to go the way of Coke Classic, keep pushing this idea. It's brand confusion on a massive scale. No, you miss the point.... it is Brand CORRECTION! Coca~Cola CLASSIC was simply a response to the confusion caused by "New Coke". You are getting confused.... it was "New Coke" that SUCKED SO BAD that it was yanked completely off the shelves and now is no longer produced. HERE'S THE HISTORY::: Coke Classic was just a temporary marketing patch. ORIGINALLY you had "Coca~Cola". Then a bunch of hijaaking idiots came along that thought they knew better than everybody actually drinking Coca~Cola, and decided to change the formula to "New Coke". Well, New Coke sucked. But it had already damaged the brand so badly, and confused things so much, that to restore sanity - there had to be a marketing bridge back to the Original. So they created "Coke Classic". THEN they just phased out New Coke completely - until it was gone forever. Then Coke Classic just slowly phased out as a "temporary name" and people just drank "Coca~Cola" again. This is a PERFECT analogy of what is going on in Bitcoin. First you had the Original Satoshi Vision Bitcoin. Then Blockstream/Core came along and thought they knew better and hijaaked Bitcoin, and tried to make it "New Bitcoin" - totally ignoring the overwhelming Bitcoin Community. But "New Bitcoin" where Bitcoin only lives in crippled little sidechains.... SUCKS. But the brand damage has been done, so "Bitcoin Classic" is rolling out. My guess is that once the fork occurs, and everybody back to using the Original Bitcoin, then eventually people will just call it Bitcoin again, and slowly over time "Bitcoin Classic" as a "temporary name" will fade away, having done its job. So you are actually incredibly wrong. Coke Classic did its job PERFECTLY. It accomplished its mission so well.... that no one even remembers New Coke.... except for this vague blurry remembrance of a yucky taste in their mouth. And that is how this will end also. After the Bitcoin Classic Fork.... Bitcoin will simply return to being Bitcoin, and the New Bitcoin Vision of Blockstream/Core will fade away forgotten, except for just a brief memory of a yucky, dirty feeling, a brief time of hateful divisiveness, lies, FUD, DDOS attacks etc. Have a Bitcoin and a Smile  |
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 17, 2016, 04:43:56 PM |
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Interesting Results so far. Very little support for Forgiveness so far. I would say I was surprised, but I guess given the degree of illegal and unprofessional activity emanating from Blockstream/Core Supporters.... well, maybe it is to be expected.
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Amph
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January 17, 2016, 06:10:57 PM |
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In my opinion, this bitcoin classic thing is a horrible idea.
We just need core to roll out either 2MB or 4MB blocks and be done with all this nonsense.
well it is what they are doing, but not directly by increasing it, but with SEG Wit, which would result in the same thing basically still beyond me why they can not increase it directly to two mega in core, but they need to do it via other random fork with stupid name |
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MicroGuy
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January 17, 2016, 06:20:50 PM |
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In my opinion, this bitcoin classic thing is a horrible idea.
We just need core to roll out either 2MB or 4MB blocks and be done with all this nonsense.
well it is what they are doing, but not directly by increasing it, but with SEG Wit, which would result in the same thing basically still beyond me why they can not increase it directly to two mega in core, but they need to do it via other random fork with stupid name Yes, exactly. The block size increase needs to be done in core, not some "soda-branded offshoot". Come on Core, please get this done now! |
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 17, 2016, 06:32:48 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2016, 08:51:12 PM by keepdoing |
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In my opinion, this bitcoin classic thing is a horrible idea.
We just need core to roll out either 2MB or 4MB blocks and be done with all this nonsense.
well it is what they are doing, but not directly by increasing it, but with SEG Wit, which would result in the same thing basically still beyond me why they can not increase it directly to two mega in core, but they need to do it via other random fork with stupid name Yes, exactly. The block size increase needs to be done in core, not some "soda-branded offshoot". Come on Core, please get this done now! And I hate to say this.... but I hope they don't. Because if they do - they might actually save themselves, and I think the last thing Bitcoin needs is this group of monkeys running the show any longer. It just delays action on the inevitable fact that we need a different governance team. I think Classic has enough of a jump on things (and hopefully they have their noses firmly to the grindstone getting ready to upload a download!) and we can just do the Fork, and eliminate TWO (2) problems at once..... 1) Raise Blocksize and Get a Hard Fork behind us (so that Bitcoin can learn from the process and continue to grow unfearfully)2) Say Goodbye to Blockstream/Core. More Votes for Option #D I see!!!! |
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keepdoing (OP)
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January 18, 2016, 02:20:58 AM
Last edit: January 18, 2016, 04:49:42 PM by grue |
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It has come to my attention recently, that suddenly, previously diehard Blockstream/Core Supporters are suddenly feeling downtrodden. Sounding downright miserable actually. Full of rational speech, and moans of being treated unfairly.
Perhaps I have been wrong in my Vote for Option #D. Perhaps after a good solid trouncing - as Bitcoin Classic legitimately displaces the "New Bitcoin" nonsense Blockstream/Core has been promoting - we should all immediately FORGIVE (Option#A) the Blockstream/Core participants.
What say you? Is this change of heart in the Blockstream/Core den legitimate and deserving of forgiveness? Or just another ploy of which we are all too familiar? Vote your mind in our Poll!
But nevertheless - soon we VOTE FOR CLASSIC!
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af_newbie
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January 18, 2016, 04:52:30 PM |
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I'll take that bet.
I say Classic will boost Bitcoin price drastically. Everyone will be cheering that the scalability impasse has been bridged and that the era of centralized development is over!
At least we know your motivation for support of Classic. Success of bitcoin should not be measured by its price. BTW, a static increase of block size does not solve anything. It is like changing size of an array on the stack, if you need to store more data, you have the same problem. A real solution would be to allow for dynamic size. The question is how to grow this size and how to build consensus of what the currently agreed (between nodes) max block size is. You need two algorithms: one to grow the size, another one to 'broadcast' what the new, to be accepted size suppose to be. If the system was centralized, solution would be easy. a central node would decide what the new size is, and inform all other nodes. But bitcoin is decentralized and more democratic, your node is as valid and needed as any other node on the network. So that is where the challenge begins. What classic offers is hard forks every few months or years. Not to take away Galvin's contributions to bitcoin, but his suggestions fall short. I've seen too many times projects fail because they were deployed without proper testing. Just because the code change is easy does not make it right. If you ever looked at bitcoin code, you'll not want to rush any new changes without extensive testing. Changing a header constant is not a solution, it is postponing it at the expense of a hard fork. |
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jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
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January 18, 2016, 05:10:28 PM |
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I'll take that bet.
I say Classic will boost Bitcoin price drastically. Everyone will be cheering that the scalability impasse has been bridged and that the era of centralized development is over!
At least we know your motivation for support of Classic. Success of bitcoin should not be measured by its price. Actually, I was responding to someone's remark about price dropping. I want Bitcoin to succeed both because I'm an investor and because I like the idea. |
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Poll
