Bitcoin Forum

Most won't, some will. At any rate, smaller pools will gain more power and deepbit will lose some. We must accept this and each do our part now. Personally, I am doing it, because I am NOT ignorant enough to turn a blind eye to a real problem.

I will be mining on eligius. Thank you very much.

I've been mining on BTCGuild for some time. Has almost all the features of deepbit and a responsive operator. Just put up a buncha servers to load balance around the world too so should be nice and stable now. It won't really mean anything, but I like the server anyway so it works for me.

eligius seems like it has been down a lot today (at least for me), so I would suggest continuumpool.com for it's similarities to eligius (it has no sign up, with bitcoin address used as username, it has LP, and it has automatic payout at 1 BTC.)

Why did you create another thread when 6 other threads with the exact same subject exist? Do you really need the personal negative attention that people will give you for spamming the forum with duplicate threads?

deepbit dropped from 50% to about 48% tonight, so it's possible keeping all these threads being made had an effect.

Herp derp... make 6 threads "morons" will ignore them all. Make 7 threads, fuck yeah, they instantly, unanimously decide to switch to other pools. I like your logic.

I don't mine at deepbit for technical and policy issues. I don't recommend it either. I have a low hashrate thus I miss the lion's share. I don't like the interface. I don't like the features. I don't like the high fees.

I did not need 7 threads to read to understand this, it is obvious if you have a brain. If you don't have a brain, not even 1000 threads on this subject will matter, so why spam multiple threads, when you can post in a single most important and visible thread where everyone can see everyone's opinion on the subject instead of censoring the duplication nature of the subject from their forum browsing?

Why should the owner of deepbit do anything? Is it his fault that there might be a design flaw in the whole system? Shouldn't the system balance itself and prevent malvolent behaviour from one agent without the need for active policing? If so, maybe bitcoin is not the answer.

You don't understand advertising.

Like a central bank? The answer to what?

I.Have.Not.Had.My.Wakening.Yet.

Yeah, that's it, it's advertising. A well organized group of people trying to get the message out. NOT

You don't understand SPAM advertising.

Real SPAM Advertising is well organized and targeted. This is preaching to the choir at this point.

That means... all the SPAM I get is fake :(

New miners certainly never show up here, in the mining forums.

New miners certainly would never join the giant pool having no understanding that in this case bigger isn't better.

And the negative connotations of all these posts helps that situation how?

If I was a newbie and read all these posts I would quit reading them rather quickly. The infinite creation of doom and gloom posts is not helpful and the informative stuff is buried in squabbling.

Just DDoS it...

I created this thread to offer a simple common sense solution to sum up all the bickering. My message was this, switch, or be an ignorant douche.

Basically, if you don't like my thread, I could give less of a fuck. As long as you're off deepbit.

Just like I can't stop people from mining on deepbit, I can't stop people from being negative on the internet. I can only try to post what I think might help. If one newbie changes pools because of my posts, I've helped.

We do what we can. If you have a better way for me to help, let me know.

I got off the Deepbit crack...So can you!

Seriously.  Get off deepbit.

You do realize that if anything ever happened with deepbit everyone would switch and/or solo mine and the BTC would stabilize?

Really? Based on what the DDoS showed, people wouldn't most likely notice for a few weeks...

I'm so tired of hearing this argument, really. Stop using deepbit and switch pools. If it forks the block chain this is not reversible by any means...

This is seriously the same line of thinking as "I'll just leave this beach fire going, what are the odds it would skip over to a house?" or "I'll just leave these ports open on my servers firewall, after all I don't even use MySQL!" or "I don't need a condom, there's no way she'll get pregnant if I just pull out."


Well, enjoy your sextuplets sir. But don't fucking ruin bitcoin for the rest of us.

What are you smoking?  I would say 99% of people switched on the same day.

Nothing against Tycho, but many Deepshit power users may be better served by other pools.

I've been getting almost ZERO stales on Bitclockers (0.0025%) and Simplecoin (0.0068%).  So why pay 3% for invalid insurance?

I can see the instant-gratification appeal for the less powerful, even though that 3% hurts them worst of all.

But why not move to BTCguild and still get your regular crack fix, while saving .5% - 3% in fees?

OTOH, it's best we deal with the 51% Deepshit conundrum sooner than later.

It's great to see Tycho offer a bounty for a solution to the dominant malignant pool problem.

What the hell, let's all wallow in Deepshit and force the issue!

Lookie here random people. If there's an issue with deepbit gaining more than 50% of the hash power and controlling the network, not now, not deepbit specifically, but just in case sometime someone does that, better to find out sooner if bitocin is doomed to fail :D, it doesn't matter if we all start throwing feces like mad monkeys to a person that pioneered and dedicated his working time to the betterment of this community. You don't have to be dicks about it, and vilify him just because he's popular.

Do present your arguments about using other pools, in an appealing manner. Consider that even if this option is open to him, he could simply choose to ignore it and not use it, all these threads indicate that Tycho is somehow actively trying to derail the whole blockchain like a madman on purple pills. He doesn't even have the power to do so and you are already executing him for a made-up crime. Be civilized!

You have obviously not read any of the other threads and misinterpreted this one. This is not about him, this is not about his work toward the community or his intentions. I have no doubt he has good intentions.

But that is not the point.



A single point of failure is a single point of failure.


Bitcoin was designed not to have one, and it has become apparent that this is quickly turning into a potential one. That factor may even be out of his control.

So, all due respect to people working to build their communities and offer a good service, but right now, what's ultimately good for the community is deepbit returning to the %30s-%40s. We need to switch to other pools until that happens.

First it's not doomed to fail. There is an actual attack that can occur with >50% of the network hash rate. There is no point to just let it go and find out if Bitcoin can withstand it when there is no reason to do so. The network will recover, no problem. What we don't know is if the public's trust will recover if such an attack were to happen. The public is important unless you think the miners can just sell Bitcoins back and forth to each other forever.

Second, I agree. Let's discuss the problem like adults. Let's not call names and suggest underhanded attacks. Let's try to convince people there is a damn good reason that we want a healthy, robust Bitcoin network that doesn't rely so much on one pool. Tycho seems like an OK guy to me (although if I were in his shoes, I would limit the pool voluntarily), and he isn't even my concern. It's just unhealthy for the network. This has been shown in the past (when deepbit was first DDOSed the network took 50 minutes to solve 2 blocks, not good).

Actually it may not be connected to the DDoS. For example, today the network had more than 40 minutes span without a single block.

If you are looking for a new mining pool try Bitclockers (http://www.bitclockers.com)
Host: pool.bitclockers.com
Port: 8332

It would be an interesting coincidence.

No.

The 51% rule was tested on the testnet. It literally wiped out a whole week's worth of testnet coins, and it undid any transaction that involved those coins. It's disastrous... no mainnet testing needed.

All the more reason Tycho should acknowledge this publicly and do something about it. This issue is imminent.

I make so much more bitcoins mining on deepbit!  Especially with the constant market fluctuation.  It's better to get the coins faster and sell them then wait and possibly miss a price upswing.

I say nay to your naysaying.

Don't you think that's being selfish and irresponsible considering the bitcoins will be worthless if this isn't addressed?

That's why I'm selling my bitcoins every time I get 1 full bit coin?  Derp derp.

No you don't.


By constant fluctuation do you mean: always goes up?


When the market is always going up (as it has done so far) you are better off waiting and selling later.

What?  I always sell my stocks at 1% upswing and it's working out well so far.  Why do you think Mt. Gox is behind?  I send like 500 transaction per day.  I keep buying and then selling when it instantly goes up 1%.

I'm seeing all kinds of fluctuation!

Oh you play the noise. Nice. So you buy (and pay the .65% fee), wait until it goes up 1%, then sell (and pay the .65% fee). I knew you were bright, but this takes the cake.

... Oh damn.  There's a fee?  I'll have to sell at 165% from now on!

Well I was going to say something about capital gains, but then realized I probably shouldn't hijack the thread anymore than it already has been.... ;o)

With respect to the network and this community I've redirected my miners off of deepbit to elsewhere. After getting more hardware I'll be making sure to distribute my hashing evenly across several pools.

TrollJack!

For every thread on the first page of this sub-forum the higher chance that morons will wake up and realize what has to be done.

Thank you.

And for everyone else...this 7th or what ever thread it is, helped.

you need to make better pool (with at least same uptime and functionality that deepbit have) and advertise it

unfortunately what we have instead is a bunch of panicking newbies spamming with shitload of dumb topics in which they want to ddos deepbit

Yes, do insult forum peers straight-up for their natural tendency to not know absolutely everything in the Universe... that should teach them, it's the right way to do it!

No need to know everything in the universe, just that you are a miner, so that your business with Bitcoin is:

1) Provide security to the network, which you threaten if you're in DeepBit.
2) Make a profit off of it, lol 3% fee.

Oh, so you will happily mine away without concern of network health simply for a little extra up time and functionality? (Not to mention making less Bitcoins) (Oh, and there are other ways to mitigate the risk of a pool going down, and deepbit's functionality doesn't come close to some of the pools that have real time stats, etc.)

There are some people posting in these threads that are making valid points in a polite manner. The topics aren't "dumb" because the concern is real. I'll agree with your last point, DDOS is stupid.

FTFY

I agree but other pools have stale shares, downtime, weird score formulas, longer payouts, etc... each has it's own strong points.

Nah, he was correct the first time.

2. To be a source of danger to

Regardless if an attack occurs, mining in deepbit increases the ease of such an attack and is dangerous for the network.

You buckle your seat belt when you drive, because you don't want to threaten your safety by not buckling it. You may never be involved in a wreck, but you take precautions against danger in case you are.

This is were I argue that a threat is a possibility by definition. But let's not delve into semantics.


Every pool has stale shares and downtime. The "weird score formula" has a valid reason to it and doesn't change your payout compared to proportional pools. Instant payouts is the only thing DeepBit had going for it. BTCguild offers that service for a 2.5% fee.

The point remains. You don't need omniscience as a miner. There are only 2 things you have to pay attention to when you get involved with mining, 2 things that aren't promoted by DeepBit. So I think the DeepBit fanboys deserve the flames coming their way, as well as all the people who join DeepBit cause "hurr durr biggest pool".

when i started with mining deepbit was one and only pool with open registrations so thanks, i will stick to tycho
so far all things about double spending are more conspiracy theories than actual, immediate danger

as for these threads - they are all whining from people that are here for week or two, instead of doing some work, making few screenshots, summing up all pros and cons of all available pools, showing fees and pps options available, they have one thing and one thing only - let's ddos tycho's pool for "greater good"

there is plenty that can be done IF one really want to help spread computing power more evenly, but it seems that we have script kids invasion that just want to fire loic for lulz

OK. Mine where you like. I've posted in pretty much all of those threads and never whined or suggested DDOS. On any public forum you have to wade through some B.S. to get any decent information. There is plenty that can be done if you really wanted to help spread the computing power more evenly, but I guess you aren't concerned. That's OK. I'll keep being concerned if that's alright with you.

Yeah I started on the DeepBit too cuz it was the only pool with open registration at the time (late March). Why though? Cuz slush's pool was being hammered so hard for being the better pool (and it still is better than DeepBit). And as soon as slush's pool reopened I moved there.

The double spending issue is much more real than you like to depict it when you add in the DeepBit flock, which won't step of out of the pool, no matter what. You seem to omit the security concepts that Bitcoin employs, i.e. an attack costs more than the benefit it allows you rip. This concept wards the network against "theft". It doesn't ward it against "arson". The proof of work system is there to ensure that those who simply want to harm Bitcoin have to employ large resources, seemingly proportional to the network "wealth", in order to do so. That the network itself provides such huge point of concentration of the very resources required to attack it opens it to anyone willing to take the opportunity. The only thing they need to do is to hack into 1 pool. And don't say that's impossible, it already happened in the past.

Nice catch.  Just wanted to state that I agree with you before posting this:

https://i.imgur.com/d7V4C.png