Bitcoin Forum

I was thinking about how the darknet keeps people from scamming... they use multi signature escrow so multiple people have to be involved with the transactions. So that not 1 person can scam, it would take the whole team of staff involved in the escrow to run off with the BTC

Maybe the staff at bitcointalk can set up an automated system so they can freeze the 'bitcoin bank accounts' that are created for these ponzi admins. If staff was more involved in this, these ponzi scams could not be ended prematurely by admin running off with everyone's bitcoin.

Guys this can totally kill any attempts and incentive to scam and make the ponzi naturally run it's course....  a proper system in place could revolutionize the bitcoin doublers and make them far more reliable.

Right now the system in place is:

-Invest money

-Pray you get the money back before site goes down...

Right now it's the damn wild west out here in this section of the forum and mods can't be bothered to give a fuck about people losing their money all the time...

I don't see how that's going to work. Also, staff aren't going to get involved in this.

What if they took a % for the fees required  ;) 8)

That is what the markets do and they make quite a chunk of change in the long run.

Someone else maybe, but I don't think bitcointalk staff will get involved.

I still don't see it working. Even darknet markets disappear, and they have.

Yes but usually last for a good six months at least... some have been around for years and many have warned people ahead of time when they were going down. And if it goes down suddenly it's usually because of government intervention or the entire crew were Goons ;)

there is no interest to be involved in this type of action.
but could be a good idea here on the forum for exchange between users... a good way to avoid another master-p scam ;)
a super trust of moderator/escrow...
but even here if only one not sign a tx how release funds? and how trust only one user ?

It wouldn't work! The Ponzi operators and admins would never be involved at muti signature escrow! Admins stated clearly that they only give warning message and still allow the existence here. The operators offers high returns to attract users to deposit their money, its business module is not sustainable due to that it is using new users' money to pay old investors. No one will be trying to run this for long term. They are waiting for the collected btc amount to reach a satisfied level and run away!

Exactly my point!! With a new system like this in place they couldnt do that! It has to be bitcointalk, very few cryptocurrency websites get this much traffic! This is one of the most popular hyip sections on the web. Somebody has to do something damn it, these scammers are discussing new methods to scam using these programs on other shadier forums... I have seen them! Ponzis are a popular scam and a new system that works could put an end to it....

Isn't there a way to do an x out of y signature including some of the contestants, to make sure the admin can't run away with the money?

I would be surprised if any bitcointalk staff would even touch this with a 10 foot pole.

What will happen is, a new ponzi will appear and it uses multi-signature addresses, the ones that start with 3.

But the story will be the same. Pyramid schemes simply can not last long. They all eventually collapse.

Now, investing into reputable gambling sites, those tend to stick around.

A pyramid scheme thay pays double within a few days and lasts for 2 months <<< more than adequate  ;D

Let's just be honest, a scam will be a scam.
It won't sustain in long run, cause they can't make $ for you at all, they don't have any business model or investment plans to make money grows.
All they did is use other people's $ to pay other users, so those who earned $ is just from other victims... in short a vicious cycle.
People KNEW, but they just dump their $ in hoping for a miracle.

Maybe I have to give another example for people who can't understand.
It's like- Going down to dirty sewers looking for fresh air.

 

The thing is.... we dont care if it fails just so long as it ran its course organically and admin didn't just try to run off with all the money right at the peak of investors. ;)

Like I said a scam will be scam, of course the admin will just run away with the money right at the peak. (That's his main GOAL)
He will be a fool or might as well don't scam if he don't do that.

The whole point of this thread. To stop them from being able to run away. If they do, the money stays in escrow and goes back to the people who invested.. either by refund or just double until the last of it is gone. The admins and escrow guys should only be allowed a percentage of all investments, that is his incentive to keep the site going.

A percentage should even be taken so that it could be funneled back into the doubler when deposits start slowing down to kind of encourage more investors. I notice when 2 people put in 0.5 close to the same time, it boosts higher dollar investments immediately. Ive seen the ledger go into a deposit frenzy... its simply a matter of trusting the pyramid scheme admin with our cash, and we dont. We really really dont.

Ya, I know the whole point of this thread. To stop them from being able to run away. If they do, the money stays in escrow and goes back to the people who invested.
A few already posted is not going to work as admin/mods are not going to do it.
They knew ponzi will fail or collapse eventually why put their foot into the sht?
At the end of day, users take full responsibility for their actions. And there is already a warning stated for everyone to see.

Warning: You are in the Gambling section. You are likely to eventually lose any money that you gamble/"invest". Additionally, moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Do not gamble more than you can afford to lose.

Why not use some of the fancy crypto-contract features of bitcoin (or altcoins).

For example, just found this : https://ethereumpyramid.com/

A ponzi / pyramid running on the ethereum blockchain.

As far i understand, it is not possible to manipulate it (or run away with coins).
because there is nobody in control of it (except the contract & blockchain self)

don't know if this would also work with bitcoin

edit:
maybe that could help
www.rootstock.io

some kind of sidechain smart-contract platform.

perhaps, one of the profesionalls / programmers here has an idea

If you want to double your coins, then buy in early.

You know the admin will eventually bust, when the pyramid starts to collapse. They have to "run away". If you try to "stop them" from running away, they won't even start the scheme.

No smart contract will do it, otherwise people will know exactly when it will stop, the game is over, so they simply do not buy in anymore.

The whole point of the ponzi is to get as many people suckered in at its peak, and to cash out at that peak, right before it collapses.

I have been in the ponzi game for a long time, since bitcoin was worth a dollar. .. That Is not how its supposed to work. That's how the scam version of it works.

Its supposed to work by the admin taking a small percentage of all deposits  or he can invest btc out of his own pocket to double his own money. The longer the pyramid works the more every smart investor understands it's days are numbered. If the admin runs it properly he can make a lot of money from commission just like the admins at the darkmarkets do, why would they risk going to jail for 10-15 years for nothing? Its because it's lucrative to keep that commission BTC going. Any legitimate business that works on commission works this way.

I know the risk of losing my money, I want to take that risk. But I want to do it on a safe platform that can actually give me a decent chance. Where I can look at the ledger and decide for myself if it's worth it. If admin polices himself and secretly wants to scam while putting on a fake polite front. The chance of me getting my money dropped from 40% or whatever down to 0%

Its like a darknet market without multi signature and all the trust is put into one shady looking admin.... who would want to buy from there...

You guy's prejudice is keeping you from upgrading the system when it is badly needed. If we don't upgrade the system people will keep getting scammed like this until the end of time just like it always has been.

The police force isn't run by one man.

I agree... :(

Would you release the escrow if the project is making a loss?

Your answer is probably no.

so then escrow is nothing else then just getting free money from them.

If someone honestly believes the project can make profits if you invest in them they obviously need the investment funds to make said profit.

If they don't need to attract funds to make profit they might skip the whole escrow part and just hand out free coins.


btw escrow isn't safe as the dnm's have proven.



but to close up. there is only one way to find out if it works or not... don't tell others how to run their projects, just set it up yourself and prove it.

If i knew how to set it up, i have done that already...

There is no "legit" version of a true ponzi or pyramid scheme. They are all scams. Right from the start.

Using other people's money to pay the initial investors is not a real investment.

So, where do we can find something "legit" investment plan?

I am an investor and I am OK with this. Are we in nazi Germany? This is an investment I want to be a part of and I know I could jump in too late and lose my money. The reason why the 'ponzi' scheme has a bad name is because that guy who is famous for running that scheme was not honest about it being a ponzi. If all the players are aware and admin can't run with 100 bitcoins then what is the issue? Nobody is forcing anybody to invest.

And as far as releasing the escrow when it's making a loss? What are you talking about? Why the fuck should escrow holders give a shit? They should pay out to the investors until the last cent is gone. The ponzi admin is the guy running and all he gets from the escrow is his commission.

You know how a Ponzi works.
And I assume with escrow you mean you would only release 1BTC as soon as the 2BTC has reached your wallet.  ::)

How can player 1 be payed from the dough of player 2 if escrow isn't released? Player 2 will only release when he received funds from player 3 and 4, but they won't release until... well you know. As the last one will never release it will have a backlash all the way to nr 1 unless some fool releases it before he gets payed.

You want the Ponzi admin pay up front? Or magically create coin?

"They should pay out the investors until the last cent is gone

That would be a problem when the first one isn't released right?

Ok so maybe the admin can't run, but it would be saturated real fast none the less and as always people will lose their coin or no one will make profit it is inherent to a Ponzi.


But it's your idea, I would happily be proven wrong

Thats why I'm saying the operator has his own 'bitcoin wallet' shared or run by some kind of escrow and he is limited on what he can withdraw, the money is in the pyramid's 'treasury' and it is under some kind of multi signature system. Escrow could even be automated like the ponzi is automated... and escrow bots are the ones verifying that the payments are correct as they go out.

Obviously this is an idea, i don't know how to code doubler scripts.

Am I supposed to have the solutions for everyone? Stop asking me questions about everything. I am just trying to provide an idea to improve the system.

Do big corporations give the only key to the treasury to the president of the company?

Now stop attacking me and let's try to have a normal discussion.

They are not attacking you.
Just telling you the truth.
It's more like you are trying to find fresh air in a dirty sewage.

You refuse to accept an upgrade for a broken system. That is all.

If a script such as this was created nobody but scammers would be using the old doubler script. Much more amazing technological advancements have been achieved by mankind. I don't think this would be as impossible as you non investors make it seem.

Ponzi itself = scam and will fail eventually, this itself is broken and will collapse.
Who is refusing to accept the hard reality truth now?
 

WHO CARES

Its no secret. I don't give a shit as long as the ponzi files for bankruptcy and not embezzlement.

I can spend all night explaining this and you won't get it because you don't invest in pyramid schemes. I do, I make money. You are outside looking in so please just stop.

Yaya who cares, and u made this topic crying for a way out?
Hoping to find fresh air in a dirty sewage? Seriously? I think you are smoking some strong weeds.
Anyway, hope u make more $ in all this ponzi/pyramid.
End of day, your life and your choice.

You better know im smoking some strong weeds.  ;D ;D ;D :D

Well, sorry to break it to you bud, but no "legit" escrow will ever touch any ponzi or doubler or pyramid scheme. That may not be a fact, but I'm pretty sure it's 99% true. That leaves a 1% chance that eventually some escrow or someone willing to participate in this multi-signature proposal of yours will actually participate.

Good luck!

When a system is broken, no amount of upgrade will fix it. If you can describe to us a system or scheme that is substantially different from a ponzi or pyramid, I'm all ears.

At least with the usual dice gambling sites, the results and winners are using a "provably fair" system.

Found some old ponzi scripts and experimenting with them at the moment.
Playing with the idea to start a own Project.

but yes, the problem with trust still exists.

Thought of a kind backup Pot. So  5% fees go to the admin and 5% to another wallet.
Is the end of the term is not enough money available to pay off the last member, the Coins from the backup used.

But I am not a programmer, and started to inform me.
I'm sure somehow it is possible.

I wasn't attacking. Just questioning.

There are ideas and there are ideas that are made real. they've been made real by looking and exploring the possibilities critically.

To get back on the idea. As you first mentioned the similarity with the darknet well the theory is that escrow is released as the "payed for stuff" is delivered. Most of the times it works like that but it's not 100% proof.

Now that you clarify that it is about escrow only releasing the cut the admin takes to admin and keep the other coins in the system it's a different idea. I won't ask any questions about it   ;) so I will just say my thoughts. You would need a fair admin to build such an idea. If he is fair he wouldn't need escrow anyway. As example like iz-nop from Yofun. It was a clear fair Ponzi that never had many coins in the HW because as soon as someone could be payed they get payed. Clear, fair and simple and no need for escrow but saturated nonetheless.

But I'm sorry for asking on the how or what I was under the impression you actually wanted to bring an idea to fruitation.

Someone make a transparent on-the-blockchain ponzi. You won't really need escrow for that, and unless it's fully automated, will be a lot of work.