Bitcoin Forum

What's BTCINVEST?

BITINVEST/BTCinvest is a low risk investment fund listed on BitFunder with as least exposure to BTCUSD as possible. The goal of the fund is to deliver great returns <i>without losing money</i> in risky investments.

The structure has recently being changed to a fund (instead of a bond with a fixed face value of 0.1 BTC/share).

BTCINVEST is 100% transparent. Every two weeks, we'll publish a report including our current holdings.

BTCINVEST will maintain timely bids at 95% of the NAV. For more information please see the description on BitFunder.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/BTCINVEST

Like 1% a month? You're so far under MPBOR it's sad.

What happens to your bond if the unauthorized Bitcoinica clone pulls a Bitcoinica on everyone?

MPOE bonds can and has gone to negative interest. We also no longer hold any funds on Bitfinex anymore due to the lack of traders / interest.

EDIT a few months later when MPOE bonds lost a quarter: Yeah, that's why :)

0%? It can go well under that.

Exactly, which is why this bond is putting it in Bitfinex which gives more stable returns.

Could you publish a public spreadsheet with all assets BITINVEST owns?
And the total balance (amount of coins) etc, since this is suppose to be transparent.

Thanks

So what's the incentive for early investors?

Right now they can either:

a) Invest with you.  You then deposit in BitFinex and they get 90% of profits.
b) Invest with BitFinex.  They get 100% of profits and no exposure to risk of you taking their money.  Then they can invest with you later when you diversify if they choose.

Not seeing how a) offers any advantage over b).

The above shouldn't be taken as a recommendation by me to do b) nor as indicating that I believe a) and b) are the only options available to potential investors.

it seems like there are two factors investors would consider before investing in your fund:
1. how much they trust you not to run away with the coins
2. how much they believe in your ability as a fund manager

i'm not worried about 2, you'll be at least as good or better than i could, plus i don't have to put in the work.
however, there's no getting around 1. even with our conversations over PM, there is still a non-trivial probability that this is an elaborate scam. i don't consider it likely, but the risk is still there and it stops me from investing too much in this low-risk fund, when really a low-risk fund is a great idea for the coins i have sitting around.
you said you'll keep a wallet with coins that match the value of the fund. what do you think about keeping these coins in escrow with another, more trusted member of the community? i'm new here so i don't know who to trust, but i assume there must be someone everyone can agree on.

just a thought, keep up the good work.

Hi, thanks for your support. If there was a way for me to prove that I'm not here to scam, then I'd have done it already :D

Currently, my BTC reserve is above what people have put into this fund, but that won't be the case when this grows. I think john (johnthedong) would be trusted by practically everyone and might be willing to escrow/hold my current funds without charging fees - thoughts? This has the downside of me unable to use my own funds to buyback shares on request, when it is tied up in investments.


First of all, this isn't soley a Bitfinex passthrough. Initially, 100% of the funds were in Bitfinex, but that's because it's not worth it to diversify a couple of BTCs. Investing in Bitfinex isn't as simple as depositing the coins in. I frequently F5 Bitfinex to check the status of my offers, to see if it is the best interest rate, etc. I believe unclescrooge offers free account management for accounts > 200 BTC, so if you want to put it 100% in bitfinex and take all of the profits then I suggest sending a PM to him and creating a managed account.

In addition, if Bitfinex runs away tomorrow, I can back 100% of the bonds. My plan is to not invest in one program more than my reserve, so that if one collapses, I curse at my computer and pays into the bond so the NAV is 0.1, and buy some more BTC.

Obviously there is the risk of me running away with your coins. That is up to you to judge the risk. I should note that my identity isn't anonymous, if you put into the effort you'll be able to find my domain, whois it and get my address in Sydney.

--

Reports will be published every time a dividend is issued. I don't plan on producing reports outside of that schedule, other than urgent updates, for the reason of "you used to post reports every week, this week you haven't, scam!" and that investing in new ventures (to me) isn't as simple as just transferring coins and praying. Initially I was considering which platform to put BITINVEST, and after a pretty long chat with Ukto on IRC I'm confident that this exchange is one of the best choices (along with mpex if you disregard the PR).

One thing that I will say is that the first dividends looks pretty good :)

at what two times during the month will dividends be issued?

On the 7th and on the 21th :)

This is because the bond was started on the 7th.

Just a few days till the first dividend payout! We purchased quite a few S.DICE shares when it was cheap on BitFunder, which means that NAV of the bond is more than 0.1 even after the 0.9% bitfunder fee :)

First Report!

Shares sold: 941
Amount Raised: 94.1 BTC * 0.0096 = 93.196 BTC
(Average bitfunder fee was 0.96%, currently fee tier 2)

Revenue
Fortnightly interest from insured ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC*
BTC-BOND dividends: 0.0493 BTC
Fortnightly interest from btcQuick.com inventory loan: 0.337 BTC*
Bitfinex interest: 0.01 BTC

* = brought forward by asset issuer to match up with btcinvest's dividend cycle

Total: 0.6113 BTC
Management fee: Not taken as a bonus :)
Dividends: 0.6113 BTC

(We raised 93.196 BTC not instantly at the IPO but rather through the past 14 days, your actual ROI is higher since you didn't hold the bond for the full 14 days)

Holdings
BTC-BOND - 2762 shares, value 27.62 BTC
Loan to ATC777 (insured by asset issuer), value 35 BTC
Loan to btcQuick.com, value 15 BTC
G.SDICE - 3,558 shares, value 19.39 BTC
Coin reserves: 0.0 BTC

Values for stocks are based on last traded price.

Total: 97.01 BTC
NAV: 0.10309 / bond

Report
Why is the NAV higher? Well, we purchased shares when they were cheaper than now. G.SDICE shares were severely undervalued when we brought the.

You'll notice that two of the holdings are loans - I have substantial trust in ATC777, and will be covering it personally in case he defaults (it's in the contract). Likewise for btcQuick, the owners behind it has hired me for programming work to make selling and giving bitcoins easier, which shows that they're committed to their business.

Bitfinex funds was not earning interest, because of the lack of traders wanting to short BTC on their platform. So we currently hold no bitcoins in bitfinex.

Dividends will be paid out on BitFunder as soon as weex lets me send it after 6 confirms.

Thanks to everyone who has invested into this fund! As we manage more coins, we're also diversifying them through more assets and channels.

But one interesting thing is that BTCINVEST has MORE volume than all assets on btct.co combined :)

Hmm... btct.co volume is definitely nothing "wow", (heh, I think MPEx did like 75,000 BTC the other day!) but with the exception of the IPO Jan 12 at 52.7 BTC, I'm not really seeing where you get that?  30d average right now on btct.co is ~66 BTC/day.

Cheers.

I used the 24 hr average :)

The 24hr average was ~28 BTC when I last checked. MPEX is definitely the king through, but for the past few days btct.co volume has being consistently in the high 20s to low 30s..

Cool, I'll have to watch it more closely.  Though with regard to the last few days... I just added the exchange volume display ~24 hours ago.  ;)

I was keeping track of the volume on different exchanges and just added up 24 hr vol for each asset :)

The site volume display is pretty cool through, gives you the volume right at the home page!

I sheepishly admit that I jacked it from MPEx.   :D

Apparently it doesn't kill.

Dumped as much S.DICE as I can for a profit with the new issuing :)

EDIT: Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to buy it at 0.0044, but looking at the transaction history we still made a profit of 2.7 btc ;)

suggestion: put link to this thread in assets bitfunder profile.

Revenue
bASIC-MINING dividends: 0.13667 BTC
BTC-BOND dividends: 0.13071 BTC (thanks for the bonus :)
ESECURITYSABTC dividends: 0.12 BTC
G.SDICE dividends: 0.6762 BTC
JAH dividends: 0.2912 BTC

Havelock investments trading: 0.06 BTC

Fortnightly interest from btcQuick.com inventory loan: 0.337 BTC*
Fortnightly interest from insured ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC*

* = brought forward to match dividend cycle

TOTAL: 1.96678 BTC
Management fee: 0.196678 BTC
Dividend per share:0.000893 / share

(will be paid in a moment)

Assets
BitFunder
6,400 G.SDICE - 39.68 BTC value
10 CoinBr.MPBPT-O - 1 BTC value
9 TU.SILVER - 1.743 BTC value
4 Exchange.ESIF - 2.539/questionable value
Coins: 1.28 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 43.9569 BTC

btct.co
38 bASIC-MINING - 13.65 BTC value
4827 BTC-BOND - 48.27 BTC value
10 ESECURITYSABTC - 7.7 BTC value, large spread through
coins: 0.2989 BTC

btct.co total value: 69.868 BTC

Loans / Lines of Credit
scrybe - 35 BTC line of credit
ATC777 - 35 BTC loan
btcQuick.com - 15 btc (btcjam)

Total loans / lines of credit: 85 BTC

Bitcoins reserve: 1.11 BTC

TOTAL: 199.93 BTC
Bonds outstanding: 1980 shares

NAV: 0.10097 / share

Some notes:

1. CoinBr.MPBPT-O was brought at 0.1 BTC. The purpose of buying this is to flip it at a higher price & work up on bitfunder fee tiers.
2. Exchange.ESIF is similar. The asset is pretty questionable, with no volume now, but the first ask is ours.
3. You'll notice JAH dividends without us holding any JAH anymore. We sold them :)

Report:

Revenue
bASIC-MINING dividends: 0.1552 BTC
BTC-BOND dividends: 1.074 BTC
btcQuick inventory loan interest: 0.337 BTC
ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC

TOTAL: 1.9781 BTC
Paid out as dividends: 1.7082 (like always, will go out later today after weex)
Dividends per share:  0.000698 / share

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
69 ASICMINER - approx 31.05 BTC

BitFunder
7,400 G.SDICE shares: 45.14 BTC
9 TU.SILVER: 1.161 BTC
Coins: 0.00 btc

Bitfunder total value: 46.75 BTC

btct.co
80 bASIC-MINING shares: 28 BTC
5906 BTC-BOND: 59.06 BTC
7 ESECURITYSABTC: 7.1 BTC
Coins: 0.00 btc

btct.co total value: 94.16 BTC

btcQuick loan (remaining amount): 7.5 BTC
ATC777 loan (remaining): 32.08 BTC
scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 74.58 BTC

Bitcoins reserve: 0.004 BTC

Total: 246.54 BTC
Shares outstanding: 2447
NAV/share: 0.1008 BTC / share

Things for a potential buyer of BITINVEST to consider:

1.  BITINVEST, in the two months for which it as traded, has never exceeded its initial offer price.

2.  BITINVEST's latest dividend was a meager 0.0069807%.

3.  BITINVEST has little to no liquidity and is one of the least-traded securities on BitFunder (BTC0.60 in the last 48 hours).

4.  BITINVEST's highest bid order is a tiny 10 shares, at a price 20% below the ask (and they rapidly get worse from there).

Full disclosure:  I have over BTC20 BTC in several assets at BitFunder, but would never invest one Satoshi in a piece of garbage like BITINVEST.

Oh hi, got mad from the alt cryptocurrency section and you're trolling my threads now? ;)

BTCINVEST is not a stock, issued shares will sell for exactly 0.1 BTC. Did you read the title?

You fail to do math, the dividends are ~0.7% every two weeks. This isn't BST, Dank or 420's bank.

You can trade in 1 share of btcinvest for the face value - BF fee (0.099 BTC). Just PM me :)

Please go complain about how there is no exchange for novascam yet. Have a good day!

I'm not mad TF old buddy old pal, just returning the favor from when you kindly bumped my colloidal silver thread.   8)

Sorry for calling BTCINVEST a stock, I now see it's a bond.

Even though the yield is much higher than I thought, I still wouldn't invest because having to PM you to cash out is weird and defeats the purpose of using an exchange.

Why not just put up a bid wall at BTC0.099 instead?  Seems kind of scammy...

NovaCoin trades freely on BTC-E, and you don't have to PM Balthazar to sell them!   ;D

Because it would reduce returns if I keep X% of the coins on a bidwall instead of actually investing?  :)

It's the same as BTCBOND. The reason why the bidwall isn't large for btcinvest is because BitFunder's reserve system works differently - if you put up 100 at 0.099, then you can't have the same coins on another reserve. So people who are interested at buying this at 0.099 would be better to just buy it at face value and get dividends!

Will this offer stand in the future?

Yes, it's in the asset description!

'Buybacks
BTCINVEST will buy back each bond for their face value minus the fee BitFunder already charged us (0.099 BTC). However, as at any time the funds are mostly in fixed term investments, investors will need to schedule the buyback with BTCINVEST. "

Because of the structural change, this is no longer the case.

Very good. I will hold on to my shares for longer in that case. Was about to sell some @0.0999. Now I feel confident holding the shares again. Thanks.

We have lent significant assets (G.SDICE, BTC-BOND & bASIC-MINING) to Ian Bakewell until May 17th. The interest (in BTC) we'll receive is 37.219 BTC and we'll get the assets back.

The first interest payment will be two dividend cycles after, and obviously we won't get the dividends from the shares we lent - so unfortunately the dividends for the next two cycles will be very small. This would be made up later through.

I've also got confirmation from friedcat that the asset transfer has took place!

We'd like to offer a new BTC loan, however with the asset lending to ianbakewell we're a bit short on funds. Right now is a pretty good time to buy some bonds ;)

Increased my holdings a little bit. I'll be able to get some more once my BFL delivery bet pays off on 1st March :P

You are aware of Bakewell's rather large loan request on BTC Jam right; is this related?

Also are you are keeping the ASICMiner shares for the dividends or would you potentially lend/liquidate them?

What's the total amount of assets loaned to Bakewell? What is it for - shorting?

Would imagine he's using it as a cash loan.  The assets he's borrowed make very little sense to short (BTC-BOND buys back at face-value on request so is essentially stupid to short).  Most likely he's going to use them as collateral for a BTCJam loan (that converts them to cash without having to sell and buyback with the costs/risk associated with it).

It's an expensive way to raise cash - so clearly he's desperate for whatever reason.

Were they loaned to him personally or to his mining company (makes no odds as far as default risk is concerned - if he's going to scam he'll obviously scam the company too)?

I know his company took a loan to raise the last cash needed to buy an ASIC - not sure if that's what this was for, or if that was yet another loan.

True, I thought it was ridiculous to short BTC-BOND too but I can see a short on bASIC-MINING working out well.

It looks like it's for this loan (even through it specifies BTC, not assets): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146689.0

S.DICE possibly worth shorting but you need to be really careful shorting bASIC.  If Avalon fail to deliver in bulk and BFL DO deliver then a short MAY pay off - but if batch 2 Avalon ship on schedule then you'll likely end up losing fairly heavily on a short of bASIC.  Unlike most other mning companies bASIC still has most of its share value in existence (Due to not having spent most funds raised) - so scope for shorting it is pretty limited as the vast majority of its price is in actual BTC.  That makes its price more stable than many other companies where 1 BTC of share price is only backed by 0.5 or less BTC of assets (your own company is actually currently trading at around its asset value - but many others are trading well above it).

The loan is:

5906 BTC-BOND
59 bASIC-MINING
7,737 G.SDICE  :)

The loan was personal and should not be related to his mining company.


Yes, this is the same loan! I see a lot of potential in ASICMINER, especially with selling ASICs to the public after the difficulty / ASICs market stabilizes. It will be kept for the dividends, but may be sold depending on the P/E and future prospects.

Report:

I'm sure you're aware that the btcusd market has being really volatile in the past few days (that short crash was scary). Plus, as some large investors were dumping massive amounts of S.DICE shares, it fell significantly. We held quite a lot of S.DICE, but I'm confident that S.DICE shares will go up in the future.

We increased our ASICMINER holdings (for reasons I won't disclose here), and we'll soon get interest & weekly repayments from the asset loan to Ian Bakewell. The future outlook is pretty good, listing this on BitFunder was a great decision, and our is NAV unchanged even with the S.DICE value drop :)

Revenue
ASICMINER dividends: 1.624 BTC
G.ASICMINER-PT dividends: 0.479 BTC
G.SDICE dividends: 0.781 BTC
btcQuick inventory loan interest: 0.337 BTC
ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC

TOTAL: 3.6329 BTC
Paid as dividends: 3.2696 BTC
Dividends per share:  0.00104 / share

As always, the dividends will go out when the coins get 6 confirms on weexchange.

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
83 ASICMINER (directly) - 55.5 BTC

BitFunder
4,021 G.SDICE shares: 18.898 BTC
400 G.BBET shares: 0.6 BTC
25 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 16.5 BTC
Coins: 1.21 btc

Bitfunder total value: 37.208 BTC

btct.co
10 ESECURITYSABTC: 6.349 BTC
Coins: 0.00 btc

btct.co total value: 6.349 BTC

Asset loan to Ian Bakewell: 128.27 BTC
ATC777 loan (remaining): 32.08 BTC
scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC
OrangeVanPurple loan: 19.45 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 215.23 BTC

Other bitcoin reserve: 1.6329 BTC

Total: 314.287 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3117
NAV/share: 0.1008 BTC / share

Dividends paid!

(Also, it's a bad idea to pay a lot more than 0.1 / share ;))

Congrats on the dividend!

How did someone manage to buy 2 shares for 0.12?

https://i.imgur.com/fRqhHMk.jpg

Did you take down the 0.1 ask wall for a second?

yeah, wtf was that?  I was looking at my holdings in Bitfunder, and all of a sudden, my BTCINVEST was worth 6 BTC.  I was like, ???

weird...  It hink they only bought 2 shares, though.

Thanks!

Yes I take down the askwall when I'm in the process of issuing dividends, to prevent more outstanding shares. I also de-issue all the unsold shares while issuing dividends, otherwise I'd have to pay out 3x as much and have the remainder still credited to my account.

LOL It was a great success for the seller :D

When you issue divs in BF, is it a lump sum in the interface?  Or is it per-share?

Also surprising it'd issue divs on unsold shares?  That sounds like a bug, might contact Ukto, it's probably easy to fix.

Cheers.

It doesn't really matter, just means I need to de-issue all the unsold shares and then re-issue it.

Dividends are paid to all issued shares.
Some issuers hold shares and prefer to have full logging/tracking of everything.

As of right now divs are issues on a per share price.
I have a lump sum option, as well as other options including only paying out for non-held issued shares in beta at the moment.

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

Protip: 0.0099 and 0.099 are very different numbers :P

Report:

Revenue
ASICMINER dividends: 4.13 BTC
G.ASICMINER-PT dividends: 0.7539 BTC
ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC

TOTAL: 5.2958 BTC
Paid as dividends: 4.7662 BTC
Dividends per share:  0.00131 / share

As always, the dividends will go out when the coins get 6 confirms on weexchange.

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
83 ASICMINER (directly) - 70.55 BTC

BitFunder
11,134 G.SDICE shares: (mpex avg of bid/ask used) 55.67 BTC
400 G.BBET shares: 0.55 BTC
29 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 24.79 BTC
Coins: 12.10 btc

Bitfunder total value: 95.81 BTC

btct.co
3 ESECURITYSABTC: 1.2 BTC
Coins: 2.185 btc

btct.co total value: 3.385 BTC

Asset loan to Ian Bakewell: 128.27 BTC
ATC777 loan (remaining): 28.73 BTC
scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 192 BTC (nice round number :))

Other bitcoin reserve: 1.6329 BTC

Total: 363.3779 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3631
NAV/share: 0.1 BTC / share

Some typo here:

55.67 + 0.55 + 24.79 + 12.1 = 93.11 != 95.81

Sorry for the typo (fat fingers I guess), heck I'll throw in the 2.7 BTC :)

Not neccesary... just pointing :)

Quick thought.  You have a lot in G.SDICE.  (half the fund?)  Might hedge against pt/exchange issues by moving half of that into CoinBr?

Cheers.

It's hardly half the fund.. I'm holding SDICE shares for a reason and don't plan to liquidate it anytime soon, when we do it will have to be slowly because of the low walls on BF / the PT.

You are right, I looked at zx9r's abbreviated quote and saw 55.67 out of 95.81.  My bad.  It was just a thought.  ;)

What's about the asset loan to Bakewell? Which assets did you lend him and how do you make sure that he will return them?

Lent:
5906 BTC-BOND
59 bASIC-MINING
7,737 G.SDICE

Ian Bakewell was available on skype (he didn't completely disappear) - his project involves using his carpentry skills offline which explains the lack of activity on bitcointalk & etc.

Howdy, BTC noob here.
I've invested some in your bond already, and after loosing some BTC's in other investments I see the benefit of "Low Risk" in your bond. ;)
And maybe I'll make your bond have bigger % of my total investments.

I do however have some questions:

1) On bitfunder it says you've issued 3'831 of 10'000 shares.
Are you planning on raising the amount of shares above 10'000 if there is a demand for it?
2) How many of your own BTC's have you invested in this bond?
If you don't mind me asking.
3) What is your thoughts on how the raise of BTC value will affect investment opportunities?
I mean, let's assume that value of BTC continue to $100, $150 or $200 in a near future, do you think that will affect your current investments, like ASICMINER and SDICE for example?

Thanx for taking the time.

//Stenkross

Hi stenkross!

1. Yes, I plan on increasing the amount of shares if the current ones are sold. It's a fund, not shares of a company :)

2. I used to hold about 20% but I have sold it for personal investments - not part of BTCINVEST because it will always reasonably diversify.

3. When this fund was first started, bitcoin was around $20. While we don't deal with USD denominated investments, some assets like S.DICE are somewhat influenced by the btcusd price. ASICMINER on the otherhand mines bitcoin and plans to sell ASIC hashing boards, which means that BTCUSD increasing in value will help them - lower electricity costs in BTC terms for example.

What about the loans? I now choose lenders based on the likelyness of them paying back even if btc doubles - for example, people who trade bitcoins, providing stock to a bitcoin casino, and lines of credit would be what I'm willing to fund (btcinvest & coinlenders) over someone who will convert it to fiat.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

(Also, if you look back on the first page of the thread, and the latest MPOE bond payouts, you know exactly why zero coins went to MPOE bonds :))

Thanx for your answers.
I do however have one more question for ya.

What do you have backing up this statement above?
Let's say a security flaw is found on bitfunder.com and there's a "bank run" - situation, where many wants to withdraw their deposits at the same time.
In such scenario there won't be any buyers, so you'll have to buy them back yourself. From where will you get the funds to do this?
I assume one part is from selling the shares within the bond (ASICMINER, S.DICE, etc), but do you have some pile of cash lying around as well?

I realize the scenario above might not be very realistic, but I still find it good to know.

//Stenkross

My bitcoins and assets added together is much larger than the fund, and of course there's actually liquidating the assets BTCINVEST owns. Even assuming that we lose 100%, I will still be able to buyback with my personal funds. (Not just bitcoin, but fiat too).

However, keep in mind there's always the risk of me dying in an accident. There's no dead man's switch yet, but I will consider it if this gets much larger.

Any comment on the drama in the Bakewell thread; has he contacted you at all or made any payments?

Either way I'm a lot more pissed off :P

As I said in the bakewell thread, Avalon might reclaim his ASIC preorders (but this is a slim chance)

Other than that, not much more to say, reclaiming the debt would be difficult as I am not located in Canada.

If you are in the Canada through and might be interested in collecting, send me a PM to work something out.

You might want to look for Canadians rather Americans.  Unless the US has recently absorbed Canada and I never noticed.

If you look back early in his thread you'll find one of his investors actually met up with him - that could be a place to start.  If it was a scam from the start then that'll be a sock-puppet account he's abandoned - but I don't think that's what happened.

Thanks Deprived, Canada* - I thought he was in the US.

Not really a good time for BTC investments in general - bitcoinrain, mpoe bonds, Ian bake well, panic over ziggap..

Update:

I've "bailed out" btcinvest with 170 of my ASICMINER shares, which brings the NAV back up to a little over 0.1 after the Ian Bakewell default. :)

The structure of btcinvest has also being changed a little - please see the asset description on BitFunder. Basically, no more fixed value of 0.1 btc / bond, it will be offered at the current NAV, and we'll maintain bidwalls at 95% of NAV with profits of the spread going to the company.

Like always, a report will be published every 2 weeks (next one is in a few days). In addition, not 100% of earnings is going to get paid out as dividends.

"In general?"  Really?   ::)

My ASICMINER, DMC, MININGCO, and CRYPTO-LTC have been doing fabulously.   ;D

They more than covered my BAKEWELL and MPOE losses!   8)

Report:

Dividends were lower this time because of ASICMINER's reduced dividends for expansion, and bad luck on S.DICE, so I decided to pay out some btcjam principal as dividends.

Revenue
BTCJAM loan: 3.21 BTC
ESECURITYSABTC: 0.01 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 0.88 BTC
ATC777 loan: 0.215 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC
G.SDICE dividends: 0.09 BTC

TOTAL: 4.6019 BTC
Paid as dividends: 4.1417 BTC
Dividends per share:  0.0011 / share

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
253 ASICMINER (directly) - 199.11 BTC

BitFunder
11,134 G.SDICE shares: 33.37 BTC
41 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 32.27 BTC
64,600 btcQuick: 5.01 BTC
Coins: 10.02 btc

Bitfunder total value: 80.67 BTC

btct.co
3 ESECURITYSABTC: 1.15 BTC
Coins: 2.2 btc

btct.co total value: 3.35 BTC

ATC777 loan (remaining): 28.73 BTC
scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC
Btcjam secured loan (remaining): 3 BTC
CoinLenders 20 BTC loan: 20 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 86.73 BTC

Coins: 5.22 BTC

Total: 375.08 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3750
NAV/share: 0.1 BTC / share

Nice dividend, Thank you!

After I saw how you were handling what happened with Bakewell, I decided you must be my kinda guy: one who takes the knocks and stands behind what he does anyway. I'm glad to see my trust rewarded.

Just a question:

Bitfunder shows 4831 shares issued, but you claim 3750 outstanding in your latest report. Is the difference a set of shares that you use to defend your 0.095 - 0.10 share price range?

Yes, shares in btcinvest's account does not count because they haven't being sold yet.

Thanks! :)

I'd like you to buy back my 90 shares. No hurry, just fill my ask at 0.099 BTC/share whenever your situation permits it.

Thanks for all the dividends!

TradeFortress,

If you intend to have an askwall at BTC0.1, it has been taken out, congratulations!

I notice there has been at least 1 purchase at BTC0.12 (making my value seem high  :D ).

It has being moved because we have a lot of shares of ASICMINER, which grew massively and increased our NAV :)

Will you pay that as a dividend and bring the NAV back in line with your target or?

Umm... does that mean, if ASICMINER crash (theoretically), you will lower it?

No, it now has a floating NAV


Yes

Report:

Revenue
Share Buyback spread: 1.29 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 4.1 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC

TOTAL: 5.5869 BTC
Paid as dividends: 5.0282 BTC
Dividends per share:  "You will be issueing [sic] (5.02820000 / 3678) = 0.00136710 per share. Final Total: 5.02819380."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
253 ASICMINER (directly) - 263.12 BTC

BitFunder
3115 G.SDICE shares: 8.10 BTC
44 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 45.76 BTC
149,600 btcQuick: 11.22 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 65.08 BTC

btct.co
3 ESECURITYSABTC: 1.1 BTC

btct.co total value: 1.1 BTC

ATC777 loan (remaining): 28.73 BTC (might go the way of Ian Bakewell)
scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC
Btcjam secured loan (remaining): 3 BTC
CoinLenders 20 BTC loan: 20 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 86.73 BTC

Total coins: 21.6 BTC

Total: 437.63 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3678
NAV/share: 0.119 BTC / share

Nice dividend again, Thank you.

On the ATC777 loan, are they late in paying?

I loan out on btcJam also. I've decided that it's a very difficult place to reliably get interest. More than 25% of the total I loaned out appears to be non-performing. That's a horrible rate, especially for someone who is generally pretty thorough in checking out a potential borrower. I've watched many trying to use that system to make interest loose everything. The idea is a good one, it's just that there seem to be too many scammers using it.

Tell you what, you loan to me, I'll invest in BTCINVEST and we'll all make a great profit!  :D

Usagi discovered this idea before...  ::)

Ah, well. I don't have time to know absolutely everything that has ever been said or done.

However, I'll try to be more original in the future...  ;D

Yeah, it's called a share exchange, which can be considered a smaller version of a take over. Real world examples include Prophecy Coal and Victory Nickel. Prophecy Coal owns 10% of Victory Nickel which was achieved in an all-share exchange, or the asset exchange between Western Digital and Toshiba when they bought Hitachi's hard drive business. This is actually quite a common and accepted way of doing business in the real world. What you and MikeMark were suggesting, on the other hand, is indeed quite a funny joke :)

It works like this. Say my company, Apache Mining Company, wants to eat a small miner. We go to the miner and say, each of our shares represents about 6 mhash/sec. We'll give you 100 shares of our company for 600 shares of yours -- mhash for mhash. Like this, the dividend yield and approx. value of the AMC shares doesn't change; and the miner receives back the value of the dividend they pay out to us. Extend this idea a little further and you have what's known as an all-share takeover. The main difference is that when we get a controlling interest in the company we state we're not interested in managing the company. We did this to quite a few small miners back in the day; we owned 60% of DMC for instance, and 50%/40%/45% of various other miners I can't recall.

The benefit to AMC is simple; increased cash flow. The benefit to the miner is simple; stability of cash flow. From a business and shareholder perspective, for both companies, it is a win-win -- but only if the businesses complement each other.

This is how I plan to start up BMF again; I'd take our remaining unsold positions in RSM and what not, buy up a sizable position in something like LTC-MINING, and start making deals again. But right now, for TU.SILVER, I'm not interested in a general investment fund like BTCINVEST. I don't need a large investment position, and I've decided to stick with fixed interest rate bonds like LTC-ATF.B1 and BTC-BOND, I don't need a huge interest rate or huge profits, just a stable face value and a reasonable distribution/dividend will do.

Is there a way that we can see the details of the loans that you have listed under assets, such as expected payment amounts, interest rate, etc? Right now we just have a balance.

Yes, by asking me :)

scrybe:
16% APR / 0.6563% every 2 weeks

ATC777:
15% APR / 3.35416 repaid every month

CoinLenders 20BTC:
Monthly, 5%, 2 months - 10.756 repaid per month

Report:

ASICMINER has more than 20% of the network hashpower as of writing, and while BFL is a lot closer to shipping they're still quite far ahead from introducing a significant amount of hashpower. We've diversified into NastyFans which has BFL preorders (and an active Jalapeno mining now), which has a quite stable share price.

Enjoy the dividends :)

Revenue
Share Buyback spread: 0 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 4.455 BTC
scrybe line of credit interest: 0.1969 BTC
CoinLenders 20 BTC loan interest: 0.756 BTC
BTCQUICK: 0.037 BTC
G.SDICE dividends: 0.106 BTC

TOTAL: 5.5509 BTC
Paid as dividends: 4.995 BTC
Dividends per share:  "You will be issueing (4.99500000 / 3903) = 0.00127978 per share. Final Total: 4.99498134."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
253 ASICMINER (directly) - 328.39 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 34.8 BTC

BitFunder
3115 G.SDICE shares: 9.59 BTC
44 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 57.13 BTC
179,600 btcQuick: 19.68 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 86.4 BTC

scrybe line of credit: 35 BTC (pending to be closed/principal repaid)
Btcjam secured loan (remaining): 3 BTC
CoinLenders 20 BTC loan: 10.24 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 48.24 BTC

Total coins: 1.2 BTC

Total: 499.03 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3903
NAV/share: 0.1278 BTC / share

Nice dividend and good growth again, thank you!  8)

Since my first buy of BTCINVEST at 0.099 / share on 4/7/2013, the NAV has gone up about 28%.

That's 28% in just one month, not including dividends!  :D

It looks like it will just continue.

Thank you for the diligent work you do, TradeFortress.

Thank you too (and friedcat) :)

What can you report on the loan to ATC777?

I can't find anything about BTCINVEST having written-off this loan... Significant to the balance and the real amount of risk involved.

Could you give a figure of the YTD performance of the BTCINVEST loan portfolio alone, excl. your generous backfills?

Hi joris,

The last time I got into contact with Aaron Carter was on Apr 22th:

---

2:56 PM me: hey
3:04 PM Aaron: hey there
3:49 PM me: how's it going?
4:37 PM Aaron: been a bit rough... having trouble with another tooth (in between dental surgeries) cuz I didnt have a ride and missed my appointment... so been medicated/sleeping a lot :(
4:40 PM My eyes are shutting on me though (its 1:40am), so I'll cya tomorrow. Will watch for you online

Apr 17th:

Aaron: not tonight
6:23 PM I just wanted to check in with you, and let you know I'm working on getting coins asap
  I'm expecting that I'll have some tomorrow, and will be back in business

--

Which, obviously did not happen and Aaron Carter has disappeared along with his debt. He fits in the profile of not intending to scam, but the BTC rally has caused him to disappear as I chatted to him frequently before on programming / mining. I no longer do long term loans denominated in BTC, and BTCINVEST's debt assets have being decreasing with the repayment of scrybe's LoC.

The performance on the loan portfolio parts are negative, but the lending criteria has substantially changed.

Let me know if you have any questions/comments.

Tnx for answering both questions and may your experience as creditor help you (and take over the help of your ASICMINER shares ;-) to do in itself profitable credit business in the Bitcoin economy.

I'm holding my share in BTCINVEST and keep track of your development. My only suggestion is to also state the disappointing changes and decisions in assets explicitly, together with your actions to prevent similar events from happening in the future (as you stated in your answer).

WTF,
Has anyone recently donated I mean "invested" funds with TF?
TF scammed me out of 27 BTC, offered arbitration, refused to pay, then refused to even participate in arbitration at all which I paid for.
He never showed me or anyone else a working "final site" because he never actually coded a working site for me. He was invited to display a working copy of what he claims the 27 btc site I paid for but refused to do so. I have moved on, paid to have my site made and will donate any recoveries from TF to charity.
This is such a brazen scammer that I have included it in my forum sig.

Anyways, my question is just this:
1) People actually give TF BTC to "invest"?
2) If so, has anyone gotten any of their "investment" back from him since March?

@Tradefortress, nice move dumping the G.SDice before the rest of us managed to :) I was waiting for an exit, but waited too long.
Does the fund hold any G.SDice now?.. Ohh,  I see from the Asset List,  2031?

LOL.

1) BTCINVEST has started since Jan this month.
2) BTCINVEST has consistently turned a profit for shareholders.
3) Everything about BTCINVEST's holdings are public (you can check reports, or the asset list).

For those who don't know, MoneyPakTrader is sad that he paid me $260 via BTC, and now wants $2800 or so back because BTC rallied. He resorted to FUD and smear campaigns as part of his attempts to get a free long on me.


Yeah. Everything has a value, and I think even with SDICE's website being blocked to US citizens, everyone can send addresses, so picking up cheap shares isn't a bad idea (but the valuation of SDICE has obviously gone down since that announcement).

Don't feel like sifting through your records, just curious if anyone successfully cashed out (or received 100% back in returns).
Basically has anyone broken even yet?
I never got anything usable back, no working site, nothing worth the $280 even (was btc only $10 each back then? I know it was a btc quote you gave and you never actually finished, didn't realize you'd freeze the USD value in January without actually producing anything useful).

It's the time for another report and dividends again :) ASICMINER has continued to rally which was somewhat unexpected. We also has some unused coins - one option is to pay it out as dividends to shareholders, other is to just invest them. Thoughts?

I'd also appreciate it if you could leave me a rating using the new trust feature on bitcointalk. Just click on the trust link to my left.

Also, you can get a negative available balance on bitfunder :P

Revenue
ASICMINER dividends: 10.013 BTC
BTCQUICK: 0.037 BTC
G.SDICE dividends: 0.025 BTC

TOTAL: 10.075 BTC
Paid as dividends: 9.0675 BTC
Dividends per share: You will be issueing (9.06750000 / 4000) = 0.00226687 per share. Final Total: 9.06748000."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
203 ASICMINER (directly) - 501.41 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 32.48 BTC

BitFunder
2031 G.SDICE shares: 3.87 BTC
48 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 118.56 BTC
197,899 btcQuick: 13.88 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 136.31 BTC

Btcjam secured loan (remaining): 3 BTC
CoinLenders 20 BTC loan: 10.24 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 13.24 BTC

Total coins: 87 BTC

Total: 770.44 BTC
Shares outstanding: 4000
NAV/share: 0.192 BTC / share

UPDATE: There was a mistake with this report. The conclusion of scrybe's loan was not added to the total coins. I apologize for the mistake and the figures have being corrected. Thanks fluidjax for checking it over!

Again, nice dividend.

Excellent NAV too.


Recommend a look at Win.Avalon for investment. See if it fits the profile you are looking for. The nice thing about it right now is that it is low cost, and therefore expected to have a high yield if timing goes right.

TradeFortress,

Have you thought about doing a weekly report/dividend payout?

Keep up the great work! :)

Reinvest! Use those skills to power up the fund & boost the share value to one doubling after another. Make your name legend & show ASICMiner how it's done! ;D

Revenue
ASICMINER dividends: 16.21 BTC
Graet.Loan - All reinvested
Btcquick dividends: 0.061 BTC
Loan Interest: 0.24 BTC
Share Buybacks: 2.43 BTC

TOTAL: 18.941 BTC
Paid as dividends: 17.0496 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (17.04960000 / 3888) = 0.00438518 per share. Final Total: 17.04957984."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
203 ASICMINER (directly) - 497.35 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 33.41 BTC

BitFunder
2031 G.SDICE shares: 4.87 BTC
49 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 120.1 BTC
197,899 btcQuick: 12.86 BTC
2380 Graet.Loan: 23.80 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 161.63 BTC

Btcjam secured loan (remaining): 3.21 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD: 44 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 47.21 BTC

Total coins: 18.66 BTC

Total: 758.26 BTC
Shares outstanding: 3888
NAV/share: 0.19502 BTC / share

Great!
Thanks, TF  :)

Wow, great! Double the dividends and a growing NAV.

If anyone takes you up on that bet, will you place the proceeds in BTCINVEST?  :D

Awesome dividend, thanks. :)


How does this work? The outstanding shares has fallen, as if the fund spent money to buy it's shares back, and there's less total NAV to match it - it's like "Share buybacks" should be about 10 times bigger with a minus in front, but I maybe made a n00b mistake. :) Thanks.

[Edit - or maybe "Share buybacks" is spread buy/sell profit, and the sell/buy totals themselves aren't shown?]

Yeah, that was the profit from buying back shares cheaper than our NAV.

If your big ask wall at NAV/share (฿0.195020 now) gets filled, do you add more or is that it for 2 weeks?

And the 95% (฿0.1850 is you I'm guessing) bid wall, is that replenished? (If not, a big investor would have trouble getting out quickly).

Sorry to be hogging your page this week. :-[

Yes, and for big investors who want to sell PM me and we can work it out in advance

Why is management fee not shown in the latest posts, I liked the way transparency was maintained in earlier bi-weekly updates/dividend posts :)

Management fee is 10%.

So 0.9 * 18.941 = 17.0496

FTFY. Thanks for the extra 0.0027 BTC ;)

Does this mean that this business in total handles about $77,000?

Market cap of BTCINVEST is more around 80k USD.

Can't wait to see what the new NAV will be with this ASICMINER appreciation. Looks like there are no more shares left for 0.197 after I bought the last 44 and someone smart grabbed over 200 earlier.

I have quickly read through the thread and it seems to me like the only share with some real quality and dividends is asicminer. So I guess it makes more sense to just invest in asicminer...

I sold some ASICMINER around 2.85 and bought BTCINVEST at .197 expecting the value to go up proportionally and ended up making more unrealized gains this way. It is also a lower risk investment since it is more diversified, but yeah having 10 shares is about like having 0.75 ASICMINER. Now that both have appreciated it is really up to whether you think ASICMINER is definitely going to go up, or if you want the lower risk of BTCINVEST and it sounds like you've made your decision.

I should have bought some last week while price was 0.19+

If you buy a bunch now you're still an early adopter. ;D

Better be quick though, the 2-week dividends are tomorrow.

And has some nice ASICMINER trading dividends :)

Revenue
DMS combined dividends: 3.36 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 13.41 BTC
NastyFans dividends: 0.3712 BTC
Graet.Loan - All reinvested
BASIC-MINING trading: 0.62 BTC
ASICMINER trading: 7.74 BTC
Loan Interest: 3.21 BTC

TOTAL: 28.7112 BTC
Paid as dividends: 25.84 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (25.84000000 / 4888) = 0.00528641 per share. Final Total: 25.83997208."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
203 ASICMINER (directly) - 641.48 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 40.6 BTC

BitFunder
41 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 129.97 BTC
18061 Graet.Loan: 180.61 BTC
199 G.BBET: 0.1592 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 310.8392 BTC

btct.co
300 DMS.SELLING: 11.1693

btct.co total value: 11.1693 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD: 44 BTC
CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 94 BTC

Total coins: 63.712 BTC

Total: 1161.8005 BTC
Shares outstanding: 4888
NAV/share: 0.2375 BTC / share

Bid and ask walls has been placed. If you have large (buy or sell) orders, schedule it by contacting me privately. :)

Also, I'd appreciate it if you could leave me a trust rating if you haven't already!

Nicely done!

Impressive!

Wow the ask wall is already gone at .24. Will there be more?

There is a new one, and its selling hot.

Yes, especially as I am not harming any existing investors trying to sell.

I hope that 0.27 BTC purchase was done by the seller instead of some clueless investor... ::)

Well I bought a lot of shares yesterday at 0269 ;/ as I did not know you would be issuing .24s today. But well what can I do :) seems like price will go over that easily anyway

Going to move to btcinvest, selling my TAT virtual mine. ThickAsThieves is a thief.

As did I :/

0.24 almost sold out.

Yep. Only a single share here to increase my holdings, but still a silly thing to do. I did my math, but an itchy triggerfinger tends to override logic...

Just read through the thread, and after seeing TradeFortress' skills in handling this fund I bought some shares!

Sold all the walls, looking to hit the 0.3 in a few days

Go NASTYFANS! :D

Hey , however much trust I have in you and I know that you (hopefully) wouldnt do anything stupid with investors money. That huge just-dice rolls really made me cringe a bit. All I want to say its that it wasnt probably the smartest move to do it and brag about it on forums too

That wasn't with investor funds. :)

I obviously understand that, what Iam saying is that it is not good for persons image to be seen gambling while you are running business where you are holding investors bitcoins.

I see recently you've been offering new shares for 0.24 - if I'm looking to invest for 20 or so shares, should I be buying the shares on BF for 0.26 or expecting a new offering soon?

Just 6 days and it hit the 0.3+ price

That's probably around what the NAV/share is already, given the current jump in ASICMiner shares as various recent bits of news start to sink in. Most of BTCInvest is in ASICMiner.

I think these were around 0.28 just before the last report came out and on that report AM's were 3.15, so we can we expect to see around 0.35 to 0.36 by Sunday?  Also, will the BTCINVEST dividend include this week's as well as last week's AM dividend?
I'm a noob with not much capital so can't really afford many shares, but I'm thinking of purchasing some of those call options, or is that a bad idea?

You would be betting a big buyer taking out that 200@0.399, for you to see break-even/profit within the time window of the first few. Worth keeping an eye on it though.

Yes.

My "BTCINVEST NAV Estimator" which is based solely on ASICMINER growth (so it is probably a low-end estimate) predicts .339, but if you add growth of other stocks I would definitely say 0.35 is possible. Either way it's undervalued right now because people don't know how to calculate the value I suppose.

Hmm... last report TradeFortress said he did some ASICMINER trading to make some nice profits for shareholders. I wonder if he sold his Bitfunder shares at 5 and rebought for cheaper this week. Glad I sold some and bought BTCINVEST with the proceeds.

I sold some AM on the way up, at around 4.5 and bought BTCINVEST with the same idea in mind. Now I'm waiting for TradeFortress' next update like a kid on xmas...

Same here, can't await next update. TF is doing a nice job. Just throw money to him, he throws more back 8)

Who else wants to see a Friedcat/TradeFortress ticket for president of Bitcoin?   :D

Likewise, selling my other shares to buy this shares.

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 1.136 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 10.2048 BTC
NastyFans dividends: 0.15 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.1 BTC
Just-Dice investment profit: 28.8 BTC
Btcquick trading: 1.12 BTC

TOTAL: 42.5108 BTC
To NAV: 10 BTC (you'll see why in a sec)
Paid as dividends: 29.2597 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (29.25970000 / 6652) = 0.00439863 per share. Final Total: 29.25968676."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
203 ASICMINER (directly) - 862.75 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 54.48 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 500 BTC

BitFunder
40 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 164 BTC
18,115 Graet.Loan: 181.15 BTC
10,000 G.MPOE: 8.8 BTC
199 G.BBET: 0.198 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 354.148 BTC

btct.co
300 DMS.SELLING: 9.6 BTC

btct.co total value: 9.6 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD: 44 BTC
CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC
(sum does not include interest)

Total loans / lines of credit: 94 BTC

Total coins: 132.1 BTC

Total: 2007.078 BTC
Shares outstanding: 6652
NAV/share: 0.301725 BTC / share
+27% from last report (not counting dividends)
+29% from last report (including dividends)

What are shareholder's thoughts on the Just-Dice rollback? Currently, we're down around 40 BTC from the JD investment.

Should we continue to invest in just-dice?

Im happy with it. I think that after this last week Dooglas will have learnt some harsh lessons, and things will be back on track. I have faith that in a few weeks we will be back in the green.

But Im just one investor, Id like to hear some more opinions on the subject :)

Yes keep the coins in just-dice. We made 28.8 BTC on them in a couple weeks so I'm fairly confident that we'll make back the 40BTC soon enough.

I think it can not objectively be said that just-dice has proven itself as a very sound investment at this time. It is very new to the market, it has been pretty much robbed lately and the operator has screwed up in a major way.

Given the strange pattern that led dooglus to temporarily take down the site, a suspicion that the site's system might be exploitable is not completely unwarranted. While the bank being down this much is completely in the realm of natural variance, the whale (nakowa/cici) has proven *multiple times* that he can walk away with substantial gains, and that is all we know for certain.

Furthermore dooglus really fucked up, first when he didn't deduct the 1300 btc, then even more when he rolled back much too late and effectively put the burden on all the wrong shoulders. This does not instill confidence in the site or it's operator either.

Gambling sites naturally have a huge potential for profits, but just-dice has not a good track record so far, and as an investor in btcinvest I don't feel very good about having such a large part of the assets in it. I humbly recommend at the very least reducing btcinvest's stake for the time being, when and if just-dice has really proven itself the investment can still be increased down the road.

There are no better investment options at the moment so I'd vote to stay in JD with the same holdings.

I also vote for staying with JD, at least until more interesting opportunities arise.

How much if any of BTCQuick are we/you invested in? As a customer of theirs and a shareholder of BTCInvest I think they have potential. Although there may be risks down the road, since they are the only company allowing credit cards I think there will be a growing demand for a company like them in the future. I was stupid and bought and sold 30k shares after the last IPO at a minuscule profit instead of holding and now the stock has quadrupled! I think there is even more room for growth. Thoughts?

I think it's stupidly overbought right now, a post-news pre-dividend micro bubble and according to the contract the remaining 7.5M shares can only be issued at .0002, if they decide to issue them at all.

I agree with you, however I do see it reaching its speculated value sooner than later. Just my opinion. As for the remaining shares, I doubt they will release them at that price as they expired some of their other offerings and don't follow their own release schedule. I could be wrong (hopefully).

I wouldn't risk more in JD for now. I remember this fund was originally stated as a very low risk fund, you may want to invest accordingly to keep the risk low.

Are you kidding? JD is the safest investment available right now.

Not sure if you are trolling, but I'll bite for the moment: How is an investment that's bleeding your money "the safest available" when there are investments available that earn you money?

Crunching some numbers, yea the APR at current market price is like 6%. It would have to grow a lot to be worth it. Good call.

Short term means nothing, it's the fundamentals. It is a 1% house-edge gambling site. It will always turn a profit in the long term, and at current turnover rates it offers investors a very good return. There is far less risk in this than investing in a company that needs to take risks with new products, have lots of expenses and need to generate revenue to stay solvent.

Just because it lost money in the last 3 days doesn't actually mean a single thing.

The only big risk is trusting Doog. Which I am happy to take.

I'd vote to stay with JD but less 500 btc.

is there a btct.co pass through for this?

hi,

i am a small shareholder.

is AM aka amc/vmc considered as part of portfolio in future ?

Oh, TF is going to have fun answering you!  ;D

yeah, 500% train missed.

Active Mining is spending 7 @ 8.25 (57.75 BTC) on advertising on the forum. As someone who advertises a lot on the forum, I can tell you that is a waste of money.

Not to mention that he bids up the price for ALL slots instead of the slots he just lost - spending more than he needed to for all the slots.

So, no.

yeah it is very easy to spend others money...

Smart guy , that also AMC use fake picture to as demonstrate of their sample product, this also account for as dishonest action...I also do not see anything shows it can delivery its product in time... For me it just 4 overpriced Avalon...

Not fake picture, https://www.flickr.com/photos/98907028@N08/9282024072/

Sorry ,may be I am too prudent ,but some pictures of power suppliers and a desktop case, isn't really enough to convince myself..
and other thing is ,the first picture they used over their website is a computer case with hard disk and a CD-ROM...
how could a ASIC miner need a CD-ROM and hard disk??

Its a picture from the manufacturer of the case they will use for the miner. The actual miner wont have CD-ROM as you see in the flickr photo from inside VMC

I'm just reporting what I read anyway. Not like I know what is going on exactly.

It might not be much, but with all the other info they have me convinced to invest 15% of my BTC in them.

They said they got tested its chips ,any screenshot of the result or any picture of the physical chips ?

And this is why you don't divest in JD just after some volatility. :)

TF I'm stuck, How do I move funds from inputs.io to coinlenders??? LOL

EDIT dont worry, done it.

For future reference, send Bitcoins to btc@coinlenders.com

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 2.3785 BTC
DMS Trading: 3.115 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 11.9901 BTC
NastyFans dividends: 0.30 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.268 BTC
Nasty Mining Loan "Fee" (aka interest): 1 BTC
Share Buyback: 3.2 BTC

TOTAL: 23.2516 BTC
Paid as dividends: 20.92644 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (20.92644000 / 7309) = 0.00286310 per share. Final Total: 20.92639790."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
220 ASICMINER (directly) - 1045 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 43.268 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 476.19 BTC

BitFunder
40 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 187.96 BTC
15,000 Ukyo.Loan: 150 BTC
18,115 Graet.Loan: 181.15 BTC
10,000 G.MPOE: 9.3 BTC
199 G.BBET: 0.378 BTC
525 G.SDICE: 1.686 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 530.474 BTC

btct.co
300 DMS.SELLING: 7.377 BTC

btct.co total value: 7.377 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD: 44 BTC
CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC
NASTY-MINING 40 BTC Loan: 40 BTC
(sum does not include interest)

Total loans / lines of credit: 134 BTC

Total coins: 186.55 BTC (*comment: mostly due to a private sale that has not been put to use yet)

Total: 2422.859 BTC
Shares outstanding: 7309
NAV/share: 0.33149 BTC / share
+9.86% from last report (not counting dividends)
+10.8% from last report (including dividends)

Market cap @ last: 2483.452 BTC

As always: contact me (admin@glados.cc) if you'd like to do bulk buys or sells of BTCINVEST. A bid wall was placed.

is anyone planning a BTCINVEST pass through on btct.co?

From Bitfunder:

"BTCINVEST does not offer any investments to US citizens or residents. If you are a citizen or reside in the United States of America, you are prohibited from purchasing any shares of BTCINVEST."

So I hope this is just a precautionary and legally defensive statement. Any updates on this statement or how recent events affect this asset? Seems to be a lot of selling going on the past day or so in light of the legal scares.

BTCINVEST prohibits US citizens or residents from purchasing shares. We're unable to enforce this however on a technical level because of BitFunder's limited options to asset issuers.

Here's another quote you might want to read timwizard:



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256008.msg2796306#msg2796306

Maybe I'm a bit thick, so please take pity on me.

Can someone explain why shares outstanding has been going up the last few weeks/months (for example, between the 8 July report and the 22 July report there are some 800 new shares issued)?  Are you discreetly issuing more shares above the NAV? 

Your last report mentioned share buyback, but not share issuance, and I see nothing in the OP about issuance of shares (although it does say you will issue shares above the NAV on the bitfunder description).  And the shares were scarcely trading at NAV, let alone above it.  So I hope you can forgive my confusion.

Thanks

Hi Rolyland,

The new shares was sold on the market. It's the ask part. The fund always gets more than current NAV for new shares.

Great to hear.  Here's hoping you put the new funds to good use.  Keep up the great work!

I hope we are getting a new report today. I'm stoked to see how TradeFortress handled "IPO Mania" the past week. ASICMINER is down a good amount so the NAV will probably be lower, but certainly not as low as these spreadsheet-lacking sheep selling as low as .25 think (thank you for the cheap shares :)).

I am guessing NAV will be approximately 0.3045 based on my spreadsheet (AM at 3.8, 5% growth in Non-AM stocks). Dividends should be juicy, too, since we will get 3 weeks of ASICMINER plus a huge amount from Just-Dice which is up ~15-20% since last report.

I saw TradeFortress post about buying Labcoin and dumping it right after trading went live, so I wonder if some of that was BTCINVEST or if it was personal funds? It is so difficult to guess his trading moves but fun to try!

More competition in the ASIC mining sector and news about a $20 million investment into Avalon has spurred drops of most mining securities (after we dumped LABCOIN, and BTCGARDEN is still trading at IPO price), which has affected our NAV but not too severely thanks to JD's profits. Enjoy the dividends :)

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 1.5949 BTC
BitVPS dividends: 0.0049 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 10.285 BTC
NastyFans dividends: 0.30 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.141 BTC
Ukyo.Loan interest: 0.7185 BTC
CD Mature: 2.585 BTC
LABCOIN trading profit: 6.485 BTC
G.SDICE-PT profit: 4.0758 BTC
Share Buyback: 6.55 BTC

TOTAL: 33.7401 BTC
Paid as dividends: 30.36609 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (30.36609000 / 7004) = 0.00433553 per share. Final Total: 30.36605212."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
240 ASICMINER (directly) - 924 BTC
116 NASTYFANS "seats" - 39.44 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 549.9 BTC

BitFunder
42 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 159.6 BTC
7544 Ukyo.Loan: 75.44 BTC
16,309 Graet.Loan: 163.09 BTC
949 TAT.MINIGAME: 0.223 BTC
1 ASICMINER PUT at 4 BTC strike

Bitfunder total value: 398.353 BTC

btct.co
174 Crypto-Trade: 33.6342 BTC
1000 BTCGARDEN: 16 BTC
248 BitVPS: 0.4588 BTC
300 DMS.SELLING: 6.786 BTC

btct.co total value: 56.879 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC
NASTY-MINING 40 BTC Loan: 40 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 90 BTC

Total coins: 98.66 BTC

Total: 2157.232 BTC
Shares outstanding: 7004
NAV/share: 0.308 BTC / share

As always: contact me (admin@glados.cc) if you'd like to do bulk buys or sells of BTCINVEST.

Nice performance considering the mining market downturn. Well done!

+1
thanks for the good work

Nav update day, when promises are kept and trust is rewarded... :)


I sold my AsicMiner before the crash and bought back at the bottom. Here's hoping TradeFortress did something similar!

Well most of the shares are direct shares, and I didn't see him auction any off unless he made some private deal.

I'm glad I sold most of mine right after the last report since I'm getting an estimated value of between .261 and .282 per share.

100 ASICMINER shares was purchased at 2.7. The profits on this trade will be locked in soon to reduce our ASICMINER exposure - in other words, expect nice dividends next report :)

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 2.4473 BTC
BitVPS dividends: 0.0049 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 9.352 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.141 BTC
Ukyo.Loan interest: 1.05 BTC
Portion of JD profit: 10 BTC
(share buyback spread isn't paid as dividends this time, as it was used to fund the 100 ASICMINER purchase)

TOTAL: 23.995 BTC
Paid as dividends: 21.5955 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (21.59550000 / 6864) = 0.00314619 per share. Final Total: 21.59544816."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
310 ASICMINER (directly) - 930 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 553.76 BTC

BitFunder
42 G.ASICMINER-PT shares: 126 BTC
* Note: The original report had a mistake with the valuation of G.ASICMINER-PT. The fund manager has donated half of the difference to the fund.
7544 Ukyo.Loan: 75.44 BTC
16,309 Graet.Loan: 163.09 BTC
949 TAT.MINIGAME: 0.27 BTC
3000 ACTIVEMINING: 13.95 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 412.35 BTC

btct.co
12 ASICMINER-PT: 36 BTC
199 Crypto-Trade: 39.8 BTC
248 BitVPS: 0.5575 BTC
300 DMS.SELLING: 5.217 BTC

btct.co total value: 81.5745 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 50 BTC

Total coins: 18.03 BTC

Total: 2012.1145 BTC
Shares outstanding: 6864
NAV/share: 0.293 BTC / share

nice performance :)

But I've got a question:
The direct Asicminer Shares are valued at 3btc/share, so are the ones at btct.co. But the ones at bitfunder are rated at 3.8btc each. Can you tell me why?

Thanks!

hell yes, the performance is more than nice :D

AM lost close to 1/4 in value, more than 50% of this fund is AM and NAV/share stayed close to same value. Thats really impressive. I really like the job TF is doing here.


I was expecting pretty much the same.

There was a mistake with the valuation of G.ASICMINER-PT on BitFunder. I have corrected this mistake. I've donated 16.8 BTC (half of the mistakenly calculated amount) to the fund.

Thanks for pointing this out! By the way, if you like what I'm doing, please leave me a trust rating if you haven't already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=67058

Ponzi scheme collapsing....  TF kicking in his own money to keep it afloat. 

TF why do you think your illegal ponzi scheme should not be regulated to protect your investors?

Because the investors don't want to be protected by people with your world-ruining perspective!

TF, thanks again for managing my money with such skill and integrity.

regulation != protecting investors

Kicking in own money to cover mistakes is a sign of trust and integrity, and TF has done it before, when BTCInvest was worth far less per share than it is right now, so it has nothing to do with the recent drop in price.

Please go FUD somewhere else, at least till you have a clue what ponzi scheme means.

Regulated by whom? Government busybodies?

Yeah thats what we all want right, for some uneducated Government employees who work 9-5 shit kicking to start dictating how we should invest and run our business, things these busybodies could not possibly understand.

Mistakes get made dude, get over it. Like everyone says, invest what you can afford to lose. As long as we don't start getting grandpa to invest his retirement and we warn all users of the chance of failure then like adults we should be allowed to do what we want with our money.

lack of regulation = pirateat40.  Enjoy the fail!

Full regulation = Bernie Madoff

Your personal vendettas are childish and useless. Go do something productive with your life.

Could you all be so kind and stop replying?

What I really like about this thread is that it only pops up in my whatchlist when there actually is something worth reading.

Don't let it become like other asset threads. That are full of random ramblings and trolls, but zero information.

Thanks.

+1 Please do not feed the trolls.

Definitely some great performance, TF. My spreadsheet can't cope with such advanced maneuvers as that massive AM buy at 2.7. I'm planning to buy some more soon with how you performed with that 25% downturn. I'm also shocked that you changed your mind on ActiveMining; good on you for evolving your trading decisions.

ActiveMining changed. AMC was unbelievably dodgy when BTCInvest started, and a terrible deal for investors. It's still hardly AM (the real one) but it's a massive improvement. Good on them for evolving.

Well even after they merged the companies together to create ActM, TF said he would not buy shares because he thought Ken's advertising expenditures were frivolous. I agree on that point, but I think TF should have bought in at the .0025 IPO price at least to speculate like he did with Labcoin. Oh well, the fund is doing well regardless and I look forward to the next few months as the Bitcoin-sphere heats up.

Someone wanted out, lol.

https://i.imgur.com/jdcXCMM.png

so many idiots trading shares...

lol

i should set some traps for noobs.

Wow; Bitcoin stock traders constantly amaze me with their stupidity. Even if ASICMINER drops to 1.8 BTC the price shouldn't go lower than about .23-.25.

Arg, I'd buy a few of these shares right now if Bitfunder didn't have such a stupid funding method. I hate it.  >:(

You would buy an overpriced shares ? good that the stupid funding method is there then ...

Someone sold 8 shares at ฿0.00100001

Most likely someone just exercised options that had a large premium.   

?

The market price is rated at 0.001BTC per share right now down from the usual 0.25BTC. Is that correct or am I missing something?

Edit: Dammit missed my opportunity when they were selling for that. Oh well.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/BTCINVEST

Option trades don't show on the chart, and nobody trades options for this stock anyway (at  least I have never seen any).

Glad that to that was fixed, I know when we first got options I traded a few of SD and it really messed up the chart.

Dividends are delayed due to maintenance on BitFunder..

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 2.69 BTC
BitVPS dividends: 0.003 BTC
Crypto-Trade dividends: 0.3487 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 9.67338 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.223 BTC
Ukyo.Loan interest: 0.7168 BTC
Just-Dice profit: 14.394 BTC

TOTAL: 29.04888 BTC
Paid as dividends: 26.143992 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (26.14399200 / 6864) = 0.00380885 per share. Final Total: 26.14394640."

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
310 ASICMINER (directly) - 771.59 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 550 BTC

BitFunder
42 G.ASICMINER-PT shares (valued at btct price): 104.538 BTC
7,375 Ukyo.Loan: 77.44 BTC
16,309 Graet.Loan: 164.72 BTC
1 btcQuick: ~0 BTC
2949 TAT.MINIGAME: 0.689 BTC
3000 ACTIVEMINING: 8.317 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 355.704 BTC

btct.co
12 ASICMINER-PT: 29.868 BTC
199 Crypto-Trade: 39.78 BTC
248 BitVPS: 0.4984 BTC
356 DMS.SELLING: 3.377 BTC

btct.co total value: 73.5234 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD #2: 50 BTC

Total loans / lines of credit: 50 BTC

Total coins: 18.03 BTC

Total: 1800.8174 BTC
Shares outstanding: 6864
NAV/share: 0.2623 BTC / share

I haven't seen any of these for a while. Have you stopped doing them, or are they just being eaten quickly? Thanks.

Nice dividend, thanks

what happened to the 116 NastyFans seats? Last mention of them is the 8th of August under "Assets"

Most likely the fund sold those as there not listed after the 8th august.

That one share of btcQuick looks so lonely!  :D

btcQuick text ad

yeah but where is the profit from that accounted for?

In the form of other assets. They weren't paid out as a dividend.

marking for further study

Update: Our investments were quite rocky (especially Just-Dice), however on the positive side some nice profit was made from trading LABCOIN. The current price of ASICMINER is primarily dependent on current dividends, which fails to account for next generation ASIC hardware, and my personal outlook for ASICMINER is positive. We do also have higher cash positions to capitalize on opportunities.

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 0.859 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 7.757463 BTC
LABCOIN trading: 14.352 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.223 BTC
Ukyo.Loan interest: 0.1669 BTC
CoinLenders CD: 3.05 BTC
Share buyback spread: 2.44 BTC

TOTAL: 29.848363 BTC
Paid as dividends: 26.8635267
Dividends per share:  You will be issueing (26.86352670 / 6459) = 0.00415908 per share. Final Total: 26.86349772.

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
260 ASICMINER (directly) - 432.9 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 518.2 BTC

BitFunder
42 G.ASICMINER-PT shares (valued at btct price): 69.3 BTC
20,57 Ukyo.Loan: 20.40 BTC
10,020 btcQuick: 5.109 BTC
16,309 Graet.Loan: 164.72 BTC
2949 TAT.MINIGAME: 0.737 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 260.266 BTC

btct.co
9 ASICMINER-PT: 14.985 BTC
199 Crypto-Trade: 39.18 BTC
248 BitVPS: 0.4717 BTC
356 DMS.SELLING: 2.5589 BTC
300 CB.IDIFF-E: 7.5 BTC

btct.co total value: 64.6956 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD #3: 100 BTC

Total coins: 138.41 BTC

Total: 1514.4816 BTC
Shares outstanding: 6459
NAV/share: 0.2345 BTC / share

Yes, just-dice incurred some serious losses.

And now, so did everything on btct.

But that's why we use BTCINVEST! TF is great at keeping on top of these things and seeing opportunity when I'm hysterical :-)

Good luck, and let me know if I can help somehow!

+1. Crisis = opportunity and all that, there must be huge opportunities for profit for someone who really knows what they're doing.

It's not been a great couple of months for BTCInvest, but for those of us who kept the faith TradeFortress can show how good he really is & how smart it was to put our trust in him.

I like the the optimism but you just got hit from every single angle and he doesnt have that much loose btcs to trade with. The NAV is probably half what it was on last report unfortunately.

He does have a fair amount, plus I'm sure he'll be selling and not just buying.

That's just being hysterical. We only had 9 AM shares on btct, most are direct. Even on btct AsicMiner is only down about 20% from the time of the report, and it's likely to recover as there shouldn't be any problems transferring the PTs. BTCInvest only had 64BTC in all btct shares in total! Most of BTCInvest was BitFunder, direct shares, or Bitcoins.

Did we even have any exposure to the shares that did get wiped out, such as LTC Global?

Revenue
DMS SELLING dividends: 1.09 BTC
ASICMINER dividends: 5.2257 BTC
Graet.Loan interest: 1.223 BTC
Ukyo.Loan interest: 0.1669 BTC
Crypt-Trade dividends: 0.5166 BTC
Btct.co trading of BTC-Bond, CIPHERMINE.B1, etc): 4.182 BTC
Share buyback spread: 4.26 BTC

TOTAL: 16.6642 BTC
Paid as dividends: 14.9977 BTC
Dividends per share: "You will be issueing (14.99770000 / 5926) = 0.00253083 per share. Final Total: 14.99769858.".

Assets
Not traded on an exchange:
260 ASICMINER (directly) - 338 BTC
Just-Dice investment: 432 BTC

BitFunder
42 G.ASICMINER-PT shares (valued at btct price): 54.6 BTC
2,057 Ukyo.Loan: 20.93 BTC
105,020 btcQuick: 36.967 BTC
16,309 Graet.Loan: 164.72 BTC
2949 TAT.MINIGAME: 0.737 BTC

Bitfunder total value: 277.954 BTC

btct.co
9 ASICMINER-PT: 11.7 BTC
222 Crypto-Trade: 37.74 BTC
248 BitVPS: 0.4717 BTC
356 DMS.SELLING: 3.35 BTC
300 CB.IDIFF-E: 7.5 BTC

btct.co total value: 60.7617 BTC

CoinLenders 90 day CD #3: 100 BTC

Total coins: 37.582 BTC

Total: 1246.2977 BTC
Shares outstanding: 5926
NAV/share: 0.21031 BTC / share

What's the plan with the BTC60 worth of btct assets?

ASICMINER-PT will be migrated to direct shares
Crypto-Trade's plans are to relist trading of their shares on their own site.
BitVPS has no announced plans yet, unfortunately.
DMS.SELLING is very likely to migrate to BitFunder
CB.IDIFF-E's payouts will be simply made to our BTC address set in btct.co

The most important thing right now is don't panic. We have a number of different options.

Please make sure your public address listed on BitFunder is correct. Depending on which option BTCINVEST takes, it may simplify possible claims processes if you use an Inputs Bitcoin address.

Hmm, people seem to be panicking.  Trade Fortress can you also give me some more info on Coin Lenders CD's?  I don't really understand how you're able to give such high returns with no volatility.  It seems like the CD's are supposed to be guaranteed.

A share of

• is still a share. The BitFunder events along with other downturns in the investment sector have been very unfortunate, but I'm confident that we can get past that. If you are curious about BTCINVEST in relation to CL, note that we started at 0.1 per share.

I look forward to what you come up with. At this time in my life, however, I need to own the private key associated with my bitfunder public address.

Considering that trade is frozen on bitfunder, how do we cash out?

One thing you could consider is auctioning your shares on bitcointalk. You'd certainly have to hold everything in escrow until you can find a way to successfully transfer ownership.

Great buy my shares!!!
PM me :)

Hi TF,
I was wondering if you were letting people sell at approximately NAV, if not, your reason for disallowing it, if so, what you calculate the current NAV to be, and how you calculate NAV with so many non-trading underlying assets.

Thanks.

You cannot. Your investment is completely out of your control at this time.

Hi TF,

What's the progress in exploring possible actions?

Also, what was the reason given for the asset freeze, and was there any advance warning? I just ask the last part because BTCInvest was already gone from your signature before everything happened. I was distressed by this at the time for obvious reasons, but it was clearly the right thing to do if it was shortly to cease trading.

Thanks.


I hope so! Most shares were bought for far more than 0.1. :(

Anyone: what's an "Inputs Bitcoin address"? The only mention of this term coming up in google is the above post. Thanks.

Not sure why its advantageous in this context, but......https://inputs.io

TradeFortress, could we please get an update on how you're going to handle the Bitfunder fiasco? Are you just going to liquidate the fund and send payouts to the shareholders? I am okay with that.

Maybe he's just plugging his site. I'm leaving my address as one that I own the private key to.

any news?

will next report occur soon?

it would be nice to know a bit more, eg will reports/dividends continue as usual or will it happen again when the trouble with bf etc is gone? will btcinvest stay on bf for non-us citizen? how about other stock markets?

i know there are alot more opportunities, but at least frequent updates, even if they only contain 'keep calm and be patient', would be nice. or maybe i'm just missing other sources?

all in all, whats the current status?

Since TradeFortress has not provided an update in two weeks and trades are still frozen, would anyone be interested in buying some shares (up to 22) using a direct transfer in BitFunder?

For the historical record:
The last trade of BTCINVEST on BitFunder was on 10/8/2013 for 20 shares at 0.14000000 each. Trading has since been frozen and it is not possible to liquidate any holdings using trades in BitFunder at this time. As you can see in this thread, there has been little communication since the freeze.

I would, but you wouldnt like the price

TradeFortress,

Some people who have put great trust in you have raised concerns, please could you take some time to respond.

Most of us have been pretty supportive through the months long losses in share value, and since the asset freeze, but your recent silence is worrying. While the stocks are in turmoil and the Bitfunder clock is ticking, BTCInvest's scheduled update is 3 days late without a word and your last post here was 2 weeks ago.

We can see you're still around, responding to customers of Inputs.io (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248803.0) and (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311522.0) Coinlenders (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283756.0), but the fate of BTCInvest must worry those customers too. For anyone thinking of investing in you in the future, the single most important thing they should pay attention to is how you steer BTCInvest through this difficult time. The greatest indicator of how much confidence you can have in trusting someone with bitcoins isn't how they act when all is well, but how they respond when things go wrong.

BTCINVEST Claims / Liquidation

First of all, I apologize for the lack of communication in regards to BTCINVEST. I did not wish to make any premature announcements. A decision has been made to appropriately liquidate BTCINVEST's assets and distribute the total to shareholders. The liquidation process will be done through CoinLenders for ease of distribution, as well as verification - BTCINVEST currently owns Ukyo and Graet debt which is not being honored, and given past history it is probable that they may still hold BTCINVEST shares.

The asset list used for the claims / liquidation process is attached.

To claim, send an email to btcinvest@glados.cc from an email with a CL account with a signed message from your public bitcoin address listed on BitFunder. Unclaimed shares will have their liquidation payments reserved. The payments will be made over time to the CL account as assets are liquidated.

one more loss, nice... at least last dividends will be paid?

Email sent... hopefully I did it right.

All claims emails received has been credited and/or replied to.

I don't have a coinlenders account, how can I receive the liquidation?
I do control my bitcoin address which is listed in this thread via the bitcoin-qt client. Surely a signed email from my public address is sufficent?

Also, what kind of distribution per share do you expect?

You said Graet debt had been defaulted on. His bitfunder listed debt is still paying dividends.


Are you saying that you will with-hold full or partial distributions to these two individuals as a way to recover some/all of the debt?

I just sent my claim. fyi, thanks.

>:(

Ukyo.Loan thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258612.0
Graet.Loan thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218324.40

Ukyo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35121
Graet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17548

Why do you say that the debt isn't being honored when evidence seems to point to the fact that ukyo is redeeming shares and people are reported having their shares redeemed, although very slowly? Have you heard something from ukyo saying the debt won't be honored, because just three days ago he said he was working through the queue, and people are reporting having their shares redeemed.

I can't speak about graet.loan as I haven't been following it.

Both Ukyo and Graet are still paying dividends. Now seems like the very worst moment to liquidate everything, all stocks are at rock bottom, astute investment now may well pay huge dividends in a few months time when confidence has returned.

reconsider and re-list elsewhere :-\


just maybe??

Ukyo hasn't paid a dividend on Ukyo.Loan since 2013-10-23 at 11:43:00

That's approaching four days with no dividend.  >:(

Im pretty sure Tradefortress means what he said, that the redeem of shares hasen't been honored just like for many other investors. Dividends and possibly some redeems have been made since the October 8 announcement by Ukyo/Great, so i think calling it a default is a bit to much even if they haven't lived up to the contract, as redeems in the pace people have requested for it haven't been done.

Since CoinLenders is known to maintain cash reserves sufficient to cover only a fraction of its obligations to depositors, a number on a CoinLenders screen is not quite the same as receiving cash. Can you say whether distributions via CoinLenders will be ring-fenced so as to be available to participants for immediate withdrawal as actual cash? Or will distributions be pooled with other CoinLenders reserves, implying that the availability of actual cash will depend on how many other people are already attempting to withdraw from CoinLenders at any given time?

(Disclosure: I have never had any position in BTC INVEST. However, having liquidated my own BTC Growth hedge fund-style offering on BTC-TC a short time ago, after strongly outperforming the broader market during the meltdown, it is educational for me to observe how other fund operators manage the return of capital to participants -- including factors such as overall timeframe, general priorities, and resulting impact to NAV.)

TF managed to respond to previous requests within 9 hours or so. 

I've not heard back since submitting a request about 21 hours or so ago.  Is there a generalized timeline that you can give us for this TF?

Can you provide exact steps we have to do to have btc back ?

1. create coinlenders account (or use already created)
2. make sure that public btc address can be signed, if not change it to signable by you
3. send email to btcinfest@glados.cc using email from coinlenders

here is tricky part

what subject ?
what email body ?
what signed message should contain ?

should be like this

subject:
btcinvest liquidation

body:
public BTC address from bitfunder

signed message:
i am owner


why it should be like that ?
to easily process emails by script to avoid mistakes

disclaimer: i own few shares :)

If you've sent in a claim before this post, you should have received an reply.


Any subject, in the email body include a signed message and signature. The signed message should state your email and BTCINVEST.

You may need to wait 24-72 hours for claiming depending on when a batch is done. Verifying addresses, signed messages isn't something that's going to be rushed.

The first payment will be made on Wednesday. Liquidation is heavily dependent on other asset issuers as well like btcquick, as well as the assets obviously (if other people buy into our walls, for Graet/Ukyo loans if/when the issuer redeems).


For the first few days of a liquidation payment, yes. It is an unwise idea to store significant amounts of BTC on internet facing servers for security reasons.

The question isn't about storing significant amounts of BTC on internet facing servers for security reasons. (Although if it were only about security and nothing more, then folks might ask why it would be the case that CoinLenders can only cover a fraction of its obligations to depositors at any one time, while Inputs.io does not have any such limitation -- or do you mean to say that Inputs.io is also unable to cover all its obligations to account holders at one time?)

Rather, the question is about the actual cash on hand (anywhere, in cold storage or otherwise) to pay depositors and how quickly depositors can expect to receive actual cash. If it were merely a matter of not storing large amounts of BTC on an internet facing server, nobody would worry about a delay of a couple of minutes to refill a hot wallet (not that CoinLenders has a normal hot wallet anyway, since it does not use the blockchain). Some, though, might wonder about how many days it could take to retrieve their cash, given that CoinLenders may not have the cash on hand anywhere, including in quickly retrievable cold storage.

As you know, this is not a theoretical question: CoinLenders has run out of cash to cover its deposits in the past and had to halt withdrawals for a couple of days. I'm simply asking about the extent to which distributions made from liquidation of the fund via CoinLenders accounts will be backed by actual cash versus soon-to-be cash. It would be wrong to characterise that question as having anything at all to do with "security reasons": cash is cash, whether it is sitting on a server or in cold storage.

EDIT!

Sorry I got CoinLenders confused with Inputs.IO, my mistake!

I am a shareholder.

Why does the distribution have to be through coin lenders?

Surely you can just transfer the required number of bitcoins as a regular transaction?

I assume TF is not going to just firesale the funds assets, so it makes perfect sense why he is doing it this way. It sounds like he wants to gradually wind it down and get maximum value from the assets and slowly distribute the funds.

It is in shareholders interests to do it this way. Liquidating assets in 1 day will mean bigger losses for shareholders.

Ps. TF let me know on skype if you want to offload some AM shares to me.

So will the share holders receive dividends during liquidation?

First liquidation payment (primarily JD along with some other assets): 0.08684 BTC paid out per share. If you haven't claimed yet, the amount will be credited once you claim.

Currently, I expect each BTCINVEST btcinvest share will receive ~0.16 BTC in total. Of course, there will be a full report.

how do I claim this?

1. Find your address here (it's your public bitfunder address)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135157.msg3412811#msg3412811

2. Sign a message with that address including BTCINVEST and your email address.

3. Email the message, signature, and your btc address to btcinvest@glados.cc

How can I message from my adress? It is a coinbase adress? Anyone have a howto?

There's a guide on how to sign an address on my thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=273629.msg2933233#msg2933233

Just scroll down to the PAYMENT INSTRUCTIONS towards the bottom of the post.

I've done this, can you reply to the email.

Waiting for transaction being processed from coin lenders to inputs.io for two days. Still no Bitcoins transferred.

This is the case for other Coinlenders users too since inputs.io was hacked (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324967). Hopefully there'll be an update in the Coinlenders (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283756.0) thread soon. TradeFortress has promised (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248803.msg3482410#msg3482410) everyone who has lost money will be fully reimbursed.

My bitcoins has never reached inputs.io! On coinlenders i see the debit but on inputs.io there is no transaction! Before i tried a transaction with 0.1BTC which was transferred to inputs.io immediatly. After that i tried to transfer 6+ BTC which are never seen on inputs.io.

So since inputs.io has been compromised and well in excess of $1M USD worth of BTC stolen, what is to be expected in respect to payouts for this security?  Were coinlenders balances compromised as well?  If a payout is coming, can we request a direct payout to a specific address as understandably, we definitely wouldn't want to go through inputs.io

Tradefotress, I recently emailed you regarding the btcinvest redemption.  Could you please look at it?

TradeFortress, does the inputs.io hack/closing affect in any way the end of the liquidation?

It looks like TradeFortress has gone back on this for inputs.io users, but even so our bitcoins shouldn't be affected as it was his own decision to put those coins in CoinLenders, and to do so after the hack happened:


Transaction date 23rd October, over a week before the first liquidation payout was made to Coinlenders, and 3 days before the liquidation was even announced:


Given that, and that it was at TradeFortress's insistence despite protests that it be done through CoinLenders, failure to honor it in full would be so unambiguously indefensible it would act as a "smoking gun" on the whole episode. There would be no two ways about it. No-one could reasonably defend him, and trusted members of the community (apparently Casascius is one) who have his personal details, or the ability to help find him, would be under severe pressure to reveal them to protect their own reputation. I don't think it's likely he'd make this happen.

There are two ways TF could do this.
1) Let deposits to inputs.io take the full loss and BTCINVEST/Coinlenders depositors get a "full refund".
2) All who deposited/invested in any of TF's services get a equal haircut.

From what I hear some Coinlender depositors have gotten a partial refund, so things are not looking good for BTCINVEST investors.

There's no equivalence between BTCINVEST investors and Coinlenders/inputs.io investors. Coinlenders investors at least chose to use the site. BTCINVEST investors didn't decide that the coins should go on Coinlenders. TradeFortress unilaterally made that decision, days after the hack had already happened, and made the transfers starting a week after the hack.

Right. One possible explanation is that he tried to use the liquidation to keep inputs and CL afloat.

Question for those of you received a liquidation payment: do you have a balance in CL, or do you have a zero balance in CL (from trying to withdraw to inputs)? I'm in the second group.

Thanks!

I stand corrected, you are right sir!

My coinlenders balance is there.  But my confidence is not high.  Without the ability to withdraw from the account into my personal wallet it is little more than a promise. I guess time will tell what that promise is worth.

Calm down people. This is a low risk investment, nothing could ever go wrong. lol

There are so many golden replies here I cannot manage to include them all, but here are some:




There are other golden ones, specially all those after October 26.

That first one is mine! I still don't want regulators involved, although I'm thinking there's a market for a business that audits bitcoin companies.

As for TF's integrity: well, the communication has been bad, the placement of the liquidated funds was bad, and (as far as I'm concerned) he's still indebted to me until I'm payed back. However, I don't think it was an inside job, and I think he'll be emptying his own pockets to partially pay us back.

i hope TF is still alive

i sent email to claim shares 3 days ago, no response, no money, no shares balance on CL account.

that is sad.

Signed a message and e-mailed to btcinvest@glados.cc.

TO TRADEFORTRESS

Really not comfortable creating a coinlenders account considering inputs.io was recently attacked.

Why can't BTCINVEST send coins directly to our various addresses already provided to Bitfunder? This would eliminate all the hassle of setting up a Coinlenders account.

If you are not going to send BTC to our Bitfunder addresses then you need to spell out in more detail how to go about setting up an account and signing a message. Also please explain why you are using such a complicated and confusing method and why we need to jump through all these hoops when it is you who should be going out of your way to accommodate us - WTF!!!

Not just venting into the forum, trying to get answers.

This.

The cynical amongst us might suggest that TF intended or intends to use the BTCINVEST funds to fill the hole in the inputs.io wallet.  Or worse, let your imagination do its worst and I doubt you'll come up with a theory that hasn't been already thought of.

TF has promised an update within a week I believe.  All we can do right now is wait and see.

If he's done something dodgy with the BTCINVEST funds then legal action may be worth investigating. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that,  and the lack of communication is merely due to him trying to get through this mess. But forcing us to sign up for an inputs.io account to claim our funds makes me feel uneasy.

TF forced all the investors to use Coinlenders right after the so called "hack".

If this isn't scam, I don't know what scam is.

Here's the summary & description from BitFunder for posterity in case the site dies completely, with the OP thrown in for good measure:

Indeed. Also, unlike inputs.io and Coinlenders, there was no "nothing is real" disclaimer for BTCInvest. BitFunder said: "We (BitFunder) do not accept responsibility for anything." but that doesn't cover TradeFortress, and even if it did, BTCInvest was promoted in other places. And promoted as an investment fund, with everything that entails.

I may be wrong but I suspect what's going on here is that TF has decided to push claims through coinlenders with all the verification that entails so that he can identify and filter the shares (potentially) owned by Graet and Ukyo and withhold liquidation payments to either or both of them until they fully redeem the Ukyo.loan and Graet.loan shares - a portion of the assets held by BTCinvest.

The irony in such a scenario is that Ukyo and/or Graet may be unable to fulfill loan repayments until they get the liquidated assets from the BTCinvest shares they (may or may not) own.

I have investments in all 3 and I'm starting to think about legal as well as illegal recourse.

TF, so whats happening with it?

I sent an email to btcinvest@glados.cc, but have not received a reply for almost 2 weeks.

+1, but it's almost three weeks now. Are there any news what's happening?

This is from CoinLenders thread:

Anybody received a liquidation of their BTCINVEST shares at all?

Well, I received a liquidation of shares into CL credits, but it seems the actual BTC will be used to repay CL and Inputs depositors.

Yes, I got the first liquidation payment paid into my coinlenders account and wired that to the wallet on my home computer shortly before the hack.

Since then, nada.

Since I missed bitfunders closing: any last options for my shares to change in btc?

Cross-posting this reply re: BTCINVEST from the CL thread. More details over there.

Ok, I e-mailed TF multiple times. Have not received an update in my coinlenders account (still says I have 0 BTCInvest shares), and no payments whatsoever. I think you were lucky to have received your liquidation before the hack. I just don't understand why TF (and Ukyo for that matter) can't keep their promises :-\

It wasn't a full liquidation, just the first installment. I have essentially been wiped out on this investment.

So? Why doesn't he respond to me? I am feeling kinda of scammed.

I am feeling scammed too. I had an email reply before the "hack" was outed, saying that my shares had been credited on Coinlenders and that some BTC was credited. But I can't log-in to Coinlenders (it gives me a password error) and he will not give me any help resetting a password, so I've never logged into Coinlenders. Anyone have a suggestion for how to get access, or gain his attention?

Interesting. Happened to me as well. Got password error right after registration, emailed him about it, then it suddenly worked, no response from him though, and to date no BTCInvest shares credited.

somebody willing to buy my 31 shares from bitfunder? I'm tired of bitcoins, your chance

TradeFortress, any response at all?

Can BTCINVEST investors get their money back from this LOW risk investment fund since it has nothing to do with inputs.io and coinlenders?

+1

Any updates on the CL refund from BTCINVEST liquidation?

There was the one I provided where he told me via email that he understood our situation, and any haircut would be offset.

- inputs.io users generally took 40-60% haircut
- CL users are now taking a 80+% haircut

I wish you BTCINVEST'ors good luck with your negotiation with TF!

I'm not exactly sure where I fit in to this mess. I was a bitfunder user that had shares of BTCINVEST, and after I saw this thread (I saw myself on the list TF posted) I emailed a liquidation request and haven't heard back since.

I see a lot conversations about inputs.io and CL, but I was a bitfunder user. (I do have a newly made CL account that is empty--which doesn't seem to work anyway because of the inputs.io problem)

Where do I fit in with the assumed repayments? Will my shares be liquidated, or will i retain my shares and have to manually manage them? Have there been any communication regarding a timeline for all of this?

All your coins are gone, that's where you fit.

Start with that assumption, and come to terms with it.  If you end up getting any of your investment back, consider yourself lucky.  That's my plan.

I hope that you followed the advice that is constantly offered here and elsewhere - never invest more than you can afford to lose.

So it seems to me that TF is liquidating his other companies as well. Did he co-mingle his assets? Is he using our moneys to liquidate those companies? As far as I can see that's the only thing that can be happening here. If it is... I don't really know what to say. I would think that would be incredibly illegal.

Does anyone know what is happening with the liquidation and coinlenders? I see my shares on my coinlenders page and I have a small amount of btc in there but I can't withdraw?

Yeah, pretty much everyone knows. If you want to join the club, read the messages other people posted.

TF, what the hell man?!

Consider yourself lucky, I still have shares=0 on CL.

TF, give us some updates.

Like you since the  november Email to transfer share of BTCINVEST but no news at all  ???
It smel bad; hope tradefortress will give us some information quicky.

Did anyone make profits due to TF investment services? Aside from TF and co-conspirators.
I know there's a ton of people who positive feedbacked his trust page.

I didn't, but haven't updated my feedback yet. The positive trust was from my experience buying BTCINVEST directly from TF without escrow. I'll have to update my trust based on the communication that was promised but is missing.

I followed all steps to claim my shares weeks ago, but nothing has been credited as of yet. Sigh :P

That sucks, I'm glad TF scammed me for 27 BTC back in January so I knew not to use his investment "service".
Too bad you didn't see my thread on him that I linked to in my signature. VVVVV

So TradeFortress ran off with our Bitcoins?? He has only made one post in 2 weeks and has completely ignored this thread. Putting our BTCINVEST payouts on coinlenders and then shutting off withdrawals is complete bullshit.

Yup!

Which of these assets can be seized from TradeFortress by their issuers since he appears to be trying to steal everything from BTCINVEST investors? For example, would friedcat help seize the 260 directly held ACICMINER shares if they have not already changed hands?

I expect they'll be liquidated long before now, but it can't hurt to ask. AsicMiner & Just-Dice are the biggest holdings, I've sent their owners a message asking for help.

Hi guys I'm completely unfamiliar with trade fortress.

Could someone give me like a one or two line account of what happened here? 

On a side note the amount of scams in Bitcoin is really getting ridiculous. After my latest scamming, losing money deposited to bitfunder, I'm given up trading and any exchange or security and won't be back until a decentralized market is set up, I recommend folks to do the same. Can't stand scammers they drive me crazy.

one or two line summary: TradeFortress either got hacked or stole more than a million dollars worth of BTC from users of his three services BTCInvest, Inputs.IO, and Coinlenders.com.

The slighly longer description follows (I am writing this from memory, so some dates may be a little off):

TradeFortress ran the BTCInvest investment fund on BitFunder, as well as Inputs.io web wallet and CoinLenders (which promised interest of 20%-30% annually on deposited balances).

When it was time to liquidate BTCInvest (October 23?), TradeFortress insisted on depositing the liquidation proceeds into CoinLenders accounts only, claiming that the reason was so that he could screen for some people (Graet, Ukyo) who owed him money and who hadn't paid it.

Then about a week and a half or so later, when users started noticing problems with their balances, unable to withdraw, etc.., he finally announced that supposedly a little earlier in October (October 21?) Inputs.io had been hacked and 4100 Bitcoins stolen. He claimed that he had not reported the theft to the police because it wouldn't help, and because they would likely confiscate the wallet with what little BTC was remaining.

TradeFortress claimed that CoinLenders was affected because it used Inputs as its wallet. BTCInvest was affected because of TradeFortress' decision (AFTER the date of the supposed hack) to put the BTCInvest liquidation payouts in CoinLenders accounts. So, in the end, users of all three of TradeFortress' services got screwed out of some to all of their bitcoins (based on comments on the forum, some Inputs users were refunded about 70% of their BTC, and a few "lucky" CoinLenders users were refunded the amount of USD they had originally deposited, and then he fell silent and stopped responding to people around November 21. So, most CoinLenders users, including BTCInvest holders, lost everything; for most of them, it is still showing in their account, but there is no way to withdraw it).

Some people early on I think were inclined to give TradeFortress the benefit of the doubt, since at that point he was still responding to people and doing some partial refunds. The people with this position preferred to think that TradeFortress made a huge mistake by claiming to have the majority of coins in a cold wallet and not actually doing so, but really did get hacked, and then panicked afterward and put the BTCInvest money into the hacked system in an attempt to keep it going as a type of fractional reserve until he could figure out what to do.

However, since that time, some damaging revelations have been trickling out about TradeFortress. For example, that a day before the supposed hack, he started logging into old accounts of his that he hadn't used in years and started deleting his old posts, account information, etc. A person who had borrowed money from CoinLenders said that he expected to be contacted by TradeFortress in an attempt to collect that debt in order to settle things, but that TradeFortress had not attempted to contact him. There have been claims he was mixing his funds with investors' and using it for gambling. Also, TradeFortress settled with several large CoinLenders creditors by paying them back the original USD they had deposited. It appears that with the several large settlements he made for pennies on the dollar, even if the hack actually took place, he should have enough BTC remaining to pay the remaining creditors all or most of what he owes them, but he has fallen silent since around November 21, despite continuing to log in and posting a few days ago in an unrelated thread. I think at this point, most people believe the hack was likely a hoax used as an excuse to steal the BTC from the users of all three services. They believe that the small number of partial refunds he made were likely a stalling tactic to buy him time before disappearing.

These are some useful threads:

inputs thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248803
coinlenders thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283756
TF scam accusation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=326879
TF dox thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327178

wow then i was really lucky. i received the first payment of my btcinvest shares and could withdraw it from coinlenders. i think we still hold a lot of ukyo and graet shares. if they are able to pay we might get a bit of our bitcoins back.

Dooglus of Just-Dice is the first to respond:


This is unfortunate to say the least, but in Dooglus' defense it was around a time when TradeFortress was still responding and making some limited repayments, and at least we have a clearer view now of the situation. I've thanked him for his quick response and left it at that.

That's the thing, tradefortress also had a massive advertising drive.  Lots of forum users getting paid (but through inputs.io)  Like I received 0.12 BTC for on inputs.io and I was able to cashout a few days before shut down (but I lost more from the BTCINVEST shutdown).  And he was also giving dividend payments for coinlenders and BTCINVEST.  Also because BTCINVEST was a hedge fund, he could have easily cooked the books.  With all these payments he was probably running a ponzi scheme or he actually got hacked and he somehow was extremely profitable which is why he had such large advertising payouts. 

For me, it's hard to fathom how BTCINVEST could be construed as anything resembling a hedge fund -- let alone a legitimate one -- or, even if it were a hedge fund, how that would offer any opportunity to "cook the books". (I do recall that when I pointed out to TF, in private, several errors in BTCINVEST's public reporting of NAV, TF thanked me for bringing the matter to his attention and promised to look into it.)

What is certain, however, is the timing of the following reply to my enquiry about requiring distributions to occur via CoinLenders, given that CL was already known not to maintain cash reserves sufficient to cover its obligations to depositors:


What was not disclosed was that the alleged hack had already occurred at the time of that reply.

Tried to warn the community that TF was a thief and the site admin (theymos) banned me.

Ukyo is about to open a portal for the withdrawal of asicminer shares in bitfunder. I think it's likely that TF still has our shares in bitfunder.

I wrote to Ukyo asking him not to allow TF to withdraw his shares. You might want to ask him as well.

He is butt buddies with theymos, this sites operator.

I messaged him on December 14th. He's failed to respond. So has Friedcat.

The shares belong to the holders of BTCINVEST. What action could be taken if Ukyo and Friedcat, in full knowledge of this, allow TF to transfer and sell our shares?

It makes me sick there is so little recourse in the BTC world. Where have all the decent people gone?

Ukyo if your out there?  These shares are the property of BTCINVEST shareholders and not TF, they should be distributed as such.

This is EXACTLY why regulating bitcoin is good.  This is why we need AML and KYC.

Any G.AsicMiner-PT shares held by any of TF's known accounts are currently not claimable.
As far as what will be done with these shares, I do not know yet. Looking over the history of the shares they are in a very questionable state.
TF had multiple accounts. I will probably hand the shares to FriedCat to work it out because the AM asset needs to be wrapped up.

-Ukyo

Thank you for responding. I don't know how others feel, but I'd be happy with this as long as FriedCat is happy to pass the shares or their liquidated values to their rightful owners. An asset list already exists that could be used for this purpose (see below).

Has anyone else had any luck getting a response out of Friedcat?

I'm not sure it's fair on Friedcat to ask this of him, nor do I think it's the correct thing to do.  Between me as a shareholder in TF's little disaster, and FC, there are two other people that IMO should be stepping up to clean up the mess.  TF, of course is number one, but good luck with that.  And Ukyo (manager of G.ASICMINER-PT?) is number two.  Ukyo is the issuer of the shares that TF held in trust for his investors, not FC.  Ukyo holds AM shares in trust and issues G.ASICMINER-PT shares one-for-one.  If one of Ukyo's shareholders messes up as TF has, it's Ukyo's mess to clean up.  FC has zero relationship to TF.

I'm also not sure what Ukyo means when he says that the G.ASICMINER-PT shares are in a "questionable state".  Either TF owns the shares, held in trust on behalf of his investors, or he doesn't.

So assuming that the shares are real, seems to me that, barring TF actually stepping up and doing anything at all positive (why start now?), then the logical course of action would be to liquidate the shares and distribute the proceeds pro-rata to his shareholders.  Personally I would prefer to take ownership of the shares, but the chances of there ending up fractional shares is probably very high.

Did you ever receive a response from friedcat on this? I presume they were all liquidated. If by some miracle they were not and he still holds them then He might be the best person to handle the AM shares and passthrough. If not then It should probably fall to Ukyo as he also will have control over the 2,057 ukyo.loan shares and possibly some influence with the 16309 graet.loan shares. if they have not already gone.??

Hi Ukyo and other btcinvestors,

Ukyo, with your help, we were able to prevent TF from profiting further, without having to debase ourselves by relying on the government. Thanks!!!

I don't think handing the PT shares to FC makes sense. We have a lot of different assets to liquidate, and we can't expect the issuer of each asset to do us the favor of liquidating the assets that she issues. In particular, FC is very busy, has no reason to help, and isn't remarkably communicative.

And, not that Ukyo offered, but it's probably inappropriate to ask him to manage the liquidation (i.e., weex).

We should either:
(A) find someone with a vested interest in liquidating the funds, or
(B) create someone with a vested interest by paying that person to liquidate the funds.

Regardless of whether we choose (A) or (B), we should try to have the liquidator leave a lot of (~300) BTC in escrow. However, I'm not sure we can find a liquidator that will put up that kind of money. Would someone look?

Now, I'm reluctant to say this, but I might be a good choice if we go with (A):
(1) I'm the investor with the most BTCINVEST shares (500 @ 1Jw9z...Qtd),
(2) I'm okay with sharing my identity and contact info,
(3) I have a good reputation (PhD student at Berkeley), and
(4) I'm offering.

So, what do you think we should do?

We should also continue to talk to the issuers of the other assets that underly BTCINVEST. I've sent a similar plea on 2013-12-05 to TF for the direct AM shares, but I haven't received a response. We still need to find out what happened to the assets in btct.co, and talk to dooglus of JD. Does anyone (who won't make threats) want to help?


In any case, you can buy the shares as they are liquidated, right?

Actually, I don't really know what funds we have remaining in bitfunder. Of course, if it were only 42 AM shares, then we wouldn't need more than 13 BTC in escrow.

According to dooglus when the inputs.io "hack" happened:


Not idea if that was a personal TradeFortress JD account or these funds belong to BTCINVEST ...

Good suggestion, I would think it might be worth asking Havelock or even TAT as both of these have good reputation, funds and some element of vested interest.

There are a few issues involved here.

A. The share count is less than 42.
B. I think, (I do not have the info in front of me when typing this), that the shares I have frozen were in TF's personal account. I am not sure there are any in the BTCInvest account.
C. While I may have control enough to distribute shares, FriedCat has full control over past and future dividends and is holding that from here on.
So in theory he has more control, I am just giving him confirmed and completed versions of the already public AssetList for G.AsicMiner-PT that he has.

As soon as I have a chance I will confirm some of this.

Also, a few people have asked if I would be willing to take over the BTCInvest asset and try to help wrap it up since TF has disappeared since I have the most knowledge over the account at least on BF. As to this, I would consider it, but only if TF does not pop up and agree to take it over and do it right, and if the other asset issuers would accept control over the assets since I obviously would not be able to sign a message for the public address. If it were to happen, I would probably put up a similar claim portal to the one I am making for Ukyo.Loan. And also the majority of BTCInvest'ors would need to agree.

-Ukyo

Thanks Ukyo.

Question: For those who transferred their shares to TF (for integration into the portal), would we be able to reclaim these shares in Limbo?

I would have to go by the final list on BitFunder.
To my knowledge TF did not do anything for anyone so anything "transferred" to him has no use/value/effect.

-Ukyo

I was holding 115 shares of BTCINVEST when TF froze it, and later disappeared. I would definitely agree to Ukyo taking control of any remaining assets on Bitfunder and liquidating them for the benefit of shareholders.

Thank you very much for your offer Ukyo! An unexpected bit of positive news at the start of the New Year.

Happy New Year to all.

I own 10 shares of BTCINVEST and I second that. Thank you Ukyo.

That would be great, Ukyo, thanks..

Anything that will return my BTC back I will agree and thanks you.

What we need is a liquidator.  Short of chasing TF personally for what he owns (plan C?), someone who can confiscate some of his assets to distribute to his shareholders sounds like a great idea for a plan B (plan A being TF manning up and doing what's right).

As the person who used to run the exchange upon which a good number of BTCINVEST assets were held, I agree that Ukyo would be in a good position to do this.

If BTCINVEST held assets in weexchange then this also puts Ukyo in a good place to reclaim those assets on behalf of shareholders.

If memory serves, not only did BTCINVEST hold exchange-listed shares, it also held direct shares in AM - and in this case, convincing Friedcat to either liquidate the shares, or give them to Ukyo to liquidate on behalf of BTCINVEST shareholders, would also be a good move IMHO.


Fingers crossed.

I would agree that Ukyo is in a good position to do this. At least it wouldn't add another person to the chain of people that could lose our money.

Unfortunately, Ukyo has undergoing financial trouble of his own. Here is the case against him. I'm very sorry to have to air this information.
(1) He ran a site similar in functionality and size to TF's inputs.io. As of a few months ago, people were unable to withdraw their coins.
(2) Ukyo continued to allow deposits for more than a month, without posting a notice that they would not be able to withdraw.
(3) Ukyo confirmed that the bitcoins where there, but that the software was overloaded. (Spoiler: the coins were later reported "gone")
(4) Ukyo claimed he was manually processing withdrawals, and the depositors planned to announce when they had received their withdrawal. Nobody announced that they received a withdrawal following Ukyo's claim (until the recent 6% payout, which I'm very grateful for).
(5) Ukyo made several promises that he would be able to explain what happened (and that the news would cause a spike in the bitcoin price).
(6) Ukyo asked the NeoBee person (CryptoCyrpus) for help. CryptoCyrpus made several promises that they would be able to explain what happened with everyone's money. CryptoCyrpus finally reported that the bitcoins were "gone."
(7) Most recently, Ukyo claims he can't tell us what happened to our money because he signed an NDA. He apparently signed something that could get him in trouble if he told us what happened to the money we gave him.

I enumerated these by memory, so I might have made minor errors, but I think each point is evident from the public record.

I appreciate his offer to help, and there's a good chance that it might help us get our money back. Also, if he's willing to help, I'm happy to help redeem his reputation. And, there's a good chance that posting this might make him angry and refuse to help, and for that, I apologize. But fool me three times, shame on me :-)

On the other hand, it's pretty bad that Ukyo signed something saying that he can't tell us what happened to our money. I assume it's generally not sound business to trust someone with your money who has lost all of your money before.

Therefore, I'd prefer he transfers the assets to TAT (if he agrees, or pretty much anyone else) for him to liquidate. Transfering the AM-PT shares, at least, is as simple as sending FriedCat an email. I'd happily pay a % to TAT (and even to Ukyo, for helping) for this service.

I'm open to discussion, and like you, I hope this is resolved quickly.

Nothing wrong with posting facts. So let's clear some things up. :)

1. Correct
2. The site allowed deposits for 2+ years. Notice that all funds would not be available for withdraw went up within a few days of the situation becoming what it is now.
3. Correct
4. Correct, and incorrect. Many users posted that they were receiving manual payouts until it ceased due to the final scenario at hand.
5. I promise to make the reasoning public as soon as we can without adverse effects. The effect/spike on bitcoin is unrelated to the reasoning but related to other things.
6. Correct and correct.
7. I never said anything about an NDA or that I signed anything. Not sure where you pulled this out of.

Unlike TF who has also suffered a "major setback" I am still here and intend to do my best to correct for things.

I did not make this offer with the intentions of earning a %.

And no offense taken.

-Ukyo

I too am concerned that allowing Ukyo to liquidate the funds is a bit like letting the fox guard the henhouse.  He hasn't disappeared, and he's paid out a whopping 6% of owed funds, and he claims he's working towards repaying everybody.  I have to say I have a bit of trouble taking his word for it, and this whole "I can't tell you what happened to your money without your money disappearing" bit seems just a bit too convenient of an excuse.  I look forward to publicly acknowledging that my fears were unfounded one day, but right now the only person I trust less than Ukyo is TradeFortress.

Maybe we should be looking for someone else to liquidate the assets that can be seized from BTCINVEST/TradeFortress.  Someone either truly trustworthy and impartial, or someone willing to put a significant surety in the hands of a trustworthy third party as insurance against going missing with the seized assets.

I know I'd be willing to pay a reasonable percentage of seized/liquidated assets as payment for service.

Any ideas how we'd go about making this happen?

a problem with this asset list is that my 351 shares of BTCINVEST are listed under 1btci44qRvsLtahoyqEfJXXKzhQAFT7Gp, btcinvest's address who i transferred it to (after an email discussion with TradeFortress) in order to be sold. it doesn't help that i don't seem to have access to my original BitFunder address, but i've updated my BitFunder account and if Ukyo wishes he can verify that user 'dinosaur' transferred 351 BTCINVEST shares to user 'btcinvest' on 2013-10-09 at 18:40:19. it seems i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place if the only two people who can verify my shareholdings are TradeFortress and Ukyo.

the problem is i am not on the list.
i had 6 shares. i have transferred them to coinlenders but it i got nothing.
my address is 1bbxx....

sad story.


Assets Transfered to Issuers
Asset    Amount
BTCINVEST    6

I would be able to make a more accurate list reversing transfers to TF.
Everyone seems to be in agreement that he paid out nothing to anyone.

-Ukyo

Not true, at least B15K3 got paid.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135157.msg3945606#msg3945606

What a lie. Are we talking about folks inability to withdraw their deposits from WeExchange?  This went on for at the very least 40 days before Ukyo / Jon posted any notification of it it happening.  I publicly asked him to at the very least post a warning to users that they would not be able to withdraw their coins when the deposited them, somewhere around a month into it. and then a week or two later a lame warning message was posted on the site.   A few days, are you seriously claiming that Ukyo?  You scamming scum. Why don't you do something useful with your life instead of ripping people off?  

Please people read up on the thread " The 94% Con by Jon Montroll" here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.0

As you can see the first user who reported being unable to withdraw the coins they deposited was Nov 19th.  And who knows how long it was even happening before that report.  A few days? What a joke.  

"I add my requests too, I trusted Ukyo but I'm loosing my faith day by day he keeps to remain vague about this issue. Avoid blocking withdrawals from weexchange seems odd, too.

Username          WeExchange ID                                 Amount                  Time Stamp
Pompolus     uIIxCevq18AuQe1i2jTftijKq6Fj03cf            5.49994209BTC   2013-11-02
Pompolus     GlWNK4426syVhELe97ew7K62gOmqtfD3     5.00000000BTC    2013-11-02


stucked since november 2nd, 17 days and counting"


Jon did absolutely nothing to stop people from depositing to his website when he was fully aware that he would not give them their coins back. I think it was around 45 days after these problems were public that he even put a notice about on the WeExchange about it.

Just for the record, TF did actually make a "payout" of some of the value of BTCINVEST shares, by depositing the some BTC into shareholders Coinlenders accounts- 0.08684 BTC paid out per share. He said this was "primarily Just Dice" along with some other assets". #263

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135157.msg3447344#msg3447344

I believe that some shareholders were sensible enough to immediately withdraw that payment. Most, including myself, probably didn't and lost that "payment" along with the rest of their Coinlenders account balance when TF disappeared with probably somewhere in the region of 10,000 stolen BTC.

Here is the original post stating that he was going to liquidate holdings and wind down BTCINVEST. #283

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135157.msg3412811#msg3412811

As I suspect that there are very few Asicminer shares still recoverable (under 42 has been mentioned), and possibly there could be something to recover from BtcQuick (has anyone made enquiries with them?), I assume that the only shares which still might have any value would be Ukyo and Graet loans. Therefore I still think that the best course of action for BTCINVEST shareholders to recover anything would be to ask for Ukyo's assistance with this.

Note: Links to posts don't seem to be working properly, you have to look down the page to find the correct post.

I agree that a notification on the site would have been better but I can't think of any bitcoin exchange that have ever done that when withdrawal was slow.
He did write this in October when the withdrawal issues started though:


How do you know that he was fully aware of that at the time? He said the situation became what it is today in just a few days. He did process transfers manually in the beginning, as several users confirmed receiving their withdrawals. He wouldn't have been able to manual transfers if the situation was the same as it is now, i.e. the bitcoins would not have been available for him to use. For that to add up the situation must have changed some weeks after he first reported the problems with the bitcoind client and was able to do manual withdrawals. (my guess is around November 20) This also adds up with anything we know so far.

This was not a full payoff for the shares either. It was a a distribution of some funds.
While I may not have the ability to give users access to coinlenders to get what was there, as long as the remaining asset operators agree, we can sell/auction off the remaining assets and distribute them proportionally based on a list prior to TF transfers.

-Ukyo

I had 100 shares that aren't listed there either.