Bitcoin Forum

With the inevitable loss and collapse of Ore-mine, Bitfactory and their many predecessors. I find myself thinking "Is it possible to set up a Faucet game (similar to the a fore mentioned) and not actually rip people off.

To make it happen I ask myself a few questions.........

• Is there enough money in advertising revenue to cover the payouts?
• What should the return on investment be
• Will people actual invest and visit the site?
• Can people play for free?
• Deposit limitations?
• etc.....

I have a little programming experience in PHP and other languages.

So with the feedback of you good people in this forum I might just give it a go.

There are some free to play games that do payout. Glorified faucets.

I have played a couple without spending any satoshi and have received small amounts. Is it worth my time? No, but to others it may be
I can at least try it and post some feed back.

Start with trying to get hooked up with advertising or how much you can gain off it before you invest a tonne of time.
Good luck. Keep us informed if you come up with something

Thanks for taking the time to reply Opmac.

Ive run a few sums and it comes down to paying an active user approx 10 cents a day, some users will be more/less active than others though. With the price of BTC falling, that estimate is probably lower now as well.

Do I think I can claim that back in advertising revenue....... Not sure is the answer! But Im going to give it ago anyway. I think as long as I have enough funds in a wallet to guarantee the first hundred or so users/investors will get there investment back, that should build some trust as well.

Trust is another factor to be taken into account. What would your advice be on that subject?

You can't set unrealistic payout returns for people as I am sure you know this. Tell them where their money is going to and how you are going to make a return on their investment.
What your main source will be. i.e. advertising.

Example: If today you gathered 5 btc in investments you need to have that on hand yourself to pay people back no matter what happens to their funds from your end. Cap the maximum people can send to you. If you have for example 10 btc on hand. Cap it at 10 btc. I could make a decent little sum each day working with 20 btc. Pretty risk free as well

Show people you can make money off that 10 btc and eventually you will gain more followers. You do need to make something yourself from this and tell people you will take for example 1 percent from what you make off the total investment.

Also get your post count up with legit postings. Nobody will invest in a newbie.
Getting people to give you anything at first is the hardest. You can clearly see from other threads there are people that will invest in anything. They take flyers on these BS double sites.

Come up with a real program that works.

i run a couple off months now a service where people can invest on my faucets not to double there bitcoins just a % off the revenue it got from my faucets + i keep some extra profits. why is this good because i can give better rewards on the faucet without coming dry = more visitors = more revenue

i think its possible to build a game and do the payouts only on ad revenue

Excellent. There you go irynet

Also take everyone's advice with a grain of salt of this forum. Due your own due diligence

The ads may not be enough to make it worth everyone's time (to some there is). So you might need to have some upgrades for a fee just like how ore-mine did it but better you might need to have your own way of multiplying the money. I suggest only give a small return per month to make sure that you do things right and not get pressured from reaching unrealistic earnings.

Id certainly like to hear more about that further on in the project


Im on the case with this as well, with this post and hope to get some valuable advice while im doing it.

Part of the game idea is to upgrade your initial purchase to draw more funds in, but Ive already taken this into account in my calculations for the ROI. I was thinking about some kind of lottery or gamble with the users Satoshi earning, then I could probably get back a percentage of the money Ive paid out to investors.
Other than that I don't really know how to setup a Trading bot (or even if such things really exist).


What kind of ROI time scale do you think is acceptable? as mentioned before, Double back in 24hrs just inst feasible

................
Your advice would be grateful

s@toshiClaims I'd like to hear more about the faucets you run, please PM me with more details.

I know of Adsense out there, but is there any other ad providers out there, better suited to what I'm trying to accomplish

I have no experience myself with any type of advertising companies. That is something I would like to learn about more for myself down the road.

yes bitfactory is 3.4 percent profit .
minute btc.com is good

if you have a good daily visitor count you can make allot off money with advertising. Just dont try to force people to click on your ads. Google will ban you right away. and google is one off the highest paying without google i should not run this service anyway cause then it will turn out fast to a ponzi..

Please do not even refer to these two sites as examples. Both have been proven scam sites. If this is to be created with good intentions it can not even use their
payout targets.

This very Interesting Idea, let me tag myself for updates.

bitfactory is  scam
minute btc.com   scam

Losing money on Bitactory and ore-mine myself give me a kick into starting this project...... Just sick and tired of the sites turning out to be ponzis or plan scams.
If you get enough visitors and just about break even, your company can still be worth money. introduce more gameplay and users will stay longer rather than collecting from the faucet and running away again

irynet
ore-mine.com is scam ?

Yes, I know. I very long scam though

What are the main things you look for in a site, before you would even consider investing time or money in?

Either you are trolling or need to do a lot more reading on this forum.

I mean, when this site started to fraud?

Did you lose money to feriede.

does this actually work? or is it just another ponzi?
the game is actually pretty fun but I dont know if this can get me some bits

Um, Bitfactory never went anywhere.  It pays shit, but the site is still there and running.

What are you referring to?






And bitfactory went scam over a month ago now.

I was on bitfactory less than ten seconds before I posted that.  I am not part of there site and would not recommend it to anyone because it pretty much never gets going, but it is there.

I would definatley say the bitfactory ponzi has callapsed, it hasn't paid in well over a month

But I think he will leave  it running to suck even more people to the scam and he probably make a couple of bitcoins in advertising per week as well.

It looked like a pro site, I think that's why it got popular so quickly

Yes a flashy site will draw more people in. BitFactory did a nice job of layout and look.
I did invest a small amount into it. I was one that got in extremely early so I made everything back and gained a little.
But a lot of people lost quit abit and yes why would any of these scambags take it down if they can suck btc out of unsuspecting people. +advertising revenue

Thing is that it is still paying to my addresses, lol.  Guess I am one of the lucky ones that gets it until the full collapse.

lol and you think that someone will believe you ?! Last transaction was made on January 8 - the proof here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1FUeHbYy83zfCT11iPeLbZoeXzsnoLTNWa

If you had received transfers from another address, just post it here. Everyone will want to see it.

Don't even post garbage like that. Newbs will see that and invest in it. Unless this is a alt of Moek

Lets get this topic back to what the original topic was. Sounds like he has good intentions.

Thanks Opmac, I think a good site have a few characteristics

• Looks flashy
• Actually pays out
• Can prove (on blockchain) there is already BTC to Guarantee Payback
• Has a little bit of game play about it

Any other suggestions

give free bitcoins in first place (small) but so people see you are paying them. with investors you can promote more = more revenue = more income.. And be sure you have enouhg reserve to pay your investors the first year without any problems.. cause only after 1 year you realy will have a stable income out off your advertising. new websites alexa ranking is not good enough to have a good income.. (im sorry for my english from belgium doing my best to explain it you correctly) :-)

That's good advice Thanks.... It might be worth my while offering some free bitcoins to the first players of the game.

There is no option to get so good ravenue from adverts to pay so high rewards for participants.
If you want to earn only from ads - you create just another PTC website - (similar or exactly) like Neobux, Clixsense or Paidverts.

It depends on what you think is high rewards for participants

200℅ in 48 hours is to high and a website that only relies on advertising could never pay a promised return like that. But over a couple of months  I think it is possible.

indeed. i share max 40% for 30 days and im far  over that from revenue only.. from 5 sites total

Wow, thats alot of advertising on your page. Which adverts are your best earners?

I was thinking less than 40% for 30 days. Between 25% to %35 for 30 days....I might have to re think?

thats always better im leaving it now like this for 2 months and see how many pure profits i keep when i payed all investors

Which paid ads company do you prefer using on your site

for btc earnings i prefer mellow ads / bitmedia / a-ads those pay you daily what is good to payout your members. and google is the main source off income but google only pays 1 time a month

A game need some money to maintain itself, and more than that, it must be profitable bcause it's a hard work... i.e How could you maintain a server running without charge some cash? that's why almost every "game" in our bitcoin universe is a scam or it tends to be one... I also think that this is why  only casino/dice games run with success, because the house earn a lot with the programming logic (maths behind it)... and other type of games, like (don't know, candycrush, angry birds, warcraft, worms, counter strike, street fight, etc) don't have this "kinda" math involved... you only play, and pay some cash for license, etc... I think that, any game beyond this "kinda" (first example) s very hard to maintain because the gameplay must be awesome and people have to forget about profits, etc... fk, that's why it''s so f***** hard to have a "earn btc" game, it will fall in the suckiest quality gameplay ever... it's a long story telling.. but it's a cool "conversation".

Like you say "How could you maintain a server running without charge some cash?". My original thoughts here, was to rely on revenue alone for income to pay out to the Users/Game players.

But as was mentioned previously there may be room for some kind "Dice Game/Gamble" (provably fair of course) to reduce the outgoings.
Somewhere down the line I would like to increase the gameplay as well so users stay longer on the site (This in turn increase ad revenue)

But any thoughts about improving income would be grateful?

Let me know if you have a referal link for any of your BTC advert sites as I sign up to them and use them in the finished site

When you display ads using "mellow ads / bitmedia / a-ads" do you get the same amount wherever you put the ad, or do the ads at the top of the page pay better (per thousand)

After a lot of people getting scammed lately by such sites like ore-mine.org, it could be harder to gain some trust and investors. I do hope you succeed if your intentions are true.

thanks Dekker, I'm gonna keep going with the project until it completes hopefully (time allowing) . if no one invests or plays then only time lost.

I'm gonna steak enough btc to cover the first 100 or so players so hopefully that will encourage more people to come

Buy a good domain when you start. with good name and good alexa ranking im building one here with a faucet www.investingbit.co.in  (later it can be changed when alexa is in a good position) cause your earnings will be 50% better ;)

Not exactly sure what your saying here. I know what Alexa is and I know what a good domain is .com .org .co.UK .fr ect...... By I'm not sure what you mean about Alexa in a good position or domain name being changed.

I've been doing CSS stuff all week.... What a pain in the ass.....!

If anyone has been reading this, which they probably havent.

I have not given up, just been re writing 5 pages into 1, and converting all forms and POST variables into SESSION Variables.

Its a steep learning curve

i hope your game will last very long enough.. not like bitfactory, well ore-mine is stay longer too but collapse in the end,
so i think you need more time to build trust on investor..
i lost money on both game before, but i definitely wont invest any mining game or building game again., unless the game are trusted and stay long time. so good luck with it :)

Is this profitable?..

Is this a scam or profitable?.

Hello

How have things been going? I have been offline for two weeks now almost.

I am so glad to see that this topic has been repurposed, and that you, irynet, are still giving this thought.

One thing that will lead to (greed and certain) collapse of your site is when players overinvest. Let's say that you offer a decent (not amazing, but decent) ROI that is very realistic and doesn't reek of "Ponzi". Now let's say that 100 users all of a sudden invest in that plan. Would you be able to pay back the 100 people their ROI on a daily basis, given the overnight spike in upgrades? How about on a weekly basis? What about a monthly basis? Chances are, that you won't be able to. Sites that claim that they can pay back these high-investing members from the advertising revenue simply don't understand how ad revenue works. Just because I invest 1BTC to upgrade my plan their site doesn't make the ads I view worth anywhere near that... Or any different from a free user on their site... So how in God's name are they going to pay me back my investment based on "ad revenue" as they claim?

Overall, I would love to see an exclusive faucet/generator that only allows a certain amount of users. You can keep the buzz alive by offering chatboxes and maybe some basic forums or a shoutbox for non-members to see how the members are doing... And it's a great way to start an email marketing campaign. You can take email addresses of people that want to join but just don't have the slots available for.

Manage expectations from the very beginning, and explain that you truly will be sharing your ad revenue with the members of your site. A breakdown can be done something like this (don't use these, I'm just guesstimating):

Phase 0 (the beta, development and programming phase)
100 Free Accounts
5 Level 1 Upgraded Accounts
3 Level 2 Upgraded Accounts
1 Level 3 Upgraded Accounts

Phase 1 (while you balance out your ad revenue vs cost of operating the site; maybe 30-60 days)
5,000 Free Accounts
25 Level 1 Upgraded Accounts
10 Level 2 Upgraded Accounts
5 Level 3 Upgraded Accounts

Phase 2 (After you have a good average earning per visit/user of your site)
10,000 Free Accounts
35 Level 1 accounts
15 Level 2 accounts
10 Level 3 accounts

and so on.

You could also do a transparent advertising report off of your AdSense and whatever other network you use, that shows registered members exactly how much you are earning from ad revenue. And then you do somewhat of a split like this:

Ad Revenue Split
25% to admin
30% to free users
15% to Level 1
15% to Level 2
15% to Level 3

You should also have a faucet available for any member to use (but mandatory for free members to earn satoshi and unlock weekly ad splits), or credits/tokens worth satoshi, and the value of that credit/token fluctuates based on how much advertising revenue you are producing. At the end of every week, or on every Sunday (for example), you can convert the credits/tokens to a BTC value to the users' accounts. Introduce a stipulation as a free member that if a claim is not made within 72 hours, your account and its balance will be forfeited in order to make room for new signups. Once your account/BTC address has forfeited itself, you cannot join the site again until your position in the waitlist has been rotated through again, after allowing the next person in the waiting list to join the site in their place.

Free members MUST claim from the faucet every 72 hours in order to remain a member. This also takes care of the visits on site, and metrics needed to operate a profit from ad revenue. With 5,000 or 10,000 visitors averaging 5-10 hits per visit within every 72 hour window, that's some good hits, that will end up paying back the investments made by paid members.

The reason you'll only have limited paid members per phase is so that you won't become inundated with over-investments, will undoubtedly collapse the ecosystem of your site.

You can use an email marketing program to send members and non-members updates about availability about positions, and as a way to introduce them to new trustworthy faucets/hyip's/generators that you trust and want to refer using your ref link. You can also earn a shitload of money from referrals to other sites... For example, I had 650 referrals from Field of Bitcoins that generated me 0.1BTC per week until their payouts went to shit. Bonus Bitcoin paid me an average of 500k satoshi/day until the Googlegate happened. Referral commissions can be added to your ad revenue, and split amongst the users of your site.

I think this will create an exclusive club that will lead to amazing user retention and time-on-site, as well as create a demand for your brand, as it has limited availability. Of course, the automation on the site has to be amazing, as you don't want to be manually checking 5,000 accounts to see who's been inactive in the past 72 hours... But I think that this is a great concept.

Badge/Recognition/Awards System
Every Level 3 user will get a badge or some form of recognition wherever their name is displayed throughout your site.
Everly Level 2 user will also get a badge.
As will every Level 1 user.
Free users can have the option to earn specific badges, like most claims made within the last 24 hours. Or the last 72 hours. Or the top claimer of the week. Top claimer of the month, etc.

This will help in the chatbox or shoutbox, or any social aspect you introduce to the site. Remember, it's an exclusive site for members, so you should offer them a way to talk to each other. Maybe also have a section/chatbox separate for upgraded members vs. free members.

Introduce a way to advertise on the site internally for members to promote whatever they want. Take 1,000 satoshi from their account for a 2hr ad. 5,000 satoshi for a 12hr ad. 7,500 satoshi for a 24hr ad. And then make a couple featured user ad placements that ONLY upgraded members can utilize.

If you do utilize this concept, and decide develop and program this, I would love to partner with you on this. My expertise is graphic design, marketing, SEO and advertising, and together, we could probably put together a business plan that could take off and start a new revolution in the way that bitcoin investment sites operate...

PM me if you wanna put our heads together and make something happen!

Hi everybitbit, I too lost money on those sites. And it really p1ssed me off. So I know exaxtly what you mean.

I'm not going to offer double back in 24 hours or anything like that. Slow and steady and hopefully I will make enough on advertising to keep going for a long time

I really hope it will be profitable. I've got 3 bitcoins saved to cover the pay back of the first investees/players. So if it does collapse, it will be my fault and I will be the only person who loses money.

Hope this answers your question my friend

Slow progress I'm afraid, I was worried about people changing values in some of the post forms and cheating the game. So I've been busy changing the backend.

I'm no expert so all this is learning to me

I hope you profit from this...

I do hope so my friend. The game/domain/google AdSense account will all be fully traceable to me. So I hope that will encourage people and give them confidence in the site.

I certainly don't want 10000 people showing up on my doorstep demanding money back

Wow thanks for your post. I will reply pm inmore detail once I get my daughter of to nursery.

This is exactly why I started thus thread to get constructive advice from this community

Speak soon

The point of ore mine and its predecessors was for people to invest money when they get some kind of reward with the faucet. So with only faucet it although generates ad views doesn't incentivise people to actually treat the site any differently than a faucet.

And of course when you do set up a investment based mining game it's usually unstable, thus being a ponzi scheme.

This is a brilliant concept for a site, not sure If I could incorporate all of this into the project im currently working on.

As Ive stated before im no expert at PHP MYSQL, JS, but Im learning fast and have a basic game up and running. Which is certainly lacking graphic design, but I was going to get the graphics done for me on Fiverr.

Im more concerned about the security of the game now, thats why im having to go back to parts of it and change the backend to make it more secure.

The limitations you speak of (eg limiting the number of players) Im going to limit the amount of investment that can be made. Otherwise it simply wont be viable to do only relying on advertising revenue alone and will quickly turn to ponzi (which no one wants especially me). If I can break even and still have a high number of active users that will be worth something by itself.  Once this has been accomplished then I was hoping to roll out another game (with investment limitation again) based around the same backend, but different front end, thus getting more page loads = more advertising revenue.

I like your idea of exclusivity within the game, everyone want to be part of something exclusive and the chatbox (communication) part is a must.

Games without google adsense ring alarm bells straight away, as this type of revenue is traceable  and scammers do not want that.

I think limiting the amount of investment has to be done, therefore the increasing the longevity of the site.

if someone who invests 1 btc, then its going to be imposible to get that back on advertising, and if anyone says they have bots to invest the money in forex and other stuff like that, and if anyone believes that BS, then I have some magic beans here for sales just get in touch.....lol

Actually that's possible.
Look:
https://i.imgur.com/5vX7RC5.png
That's experimental chart (one machine, bot working not 24/7) shows that even without referrals you
can get some dust like 0.002/day. 10 machines give 0.02/day. e.t.c.

Regards.

Maybe my inexperience on bot trading is showing and maybe it is possible. If it only takes multiple machines to make a good profit, id be happy to setup multiple machines for you in some kind of VM environment  (Virtulisation is my main job) to help make you more money. But im still very skeptical.

Cheap VPS cost approx 12$/year so say 100+ give you something real.


P.S.
Sometimes wrote about forex too:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=658125.msg8332188#msg8332188
Thanks for offer but have some experience too :) .
Regards.

Hi, for anyone still interested in my project. Ive been hard at work cleaning up the game.

Had a lot of CSS work to do, then I decided to use a different backend to secure the user credentials and other game data.

But all the work has nearly produced something reasonable for a novice/amateur coder, the game graphics are not great, but will do for now until I can prioritise some more time on them.

I have 2 more tasks to finish (moving the login box to the front screen & Styling the registration page) and Phase 1 of the game will be finished and anyone interested can have a look.

If anyone is interested Ill be happy to credit your account with enough satoshis to make the game more interesting (enough to buy a few mines). and your more than welcome to withdraw any earnings made.

Send me a PM with some details, and I'd love to test out your site and offer some feedback. Maybe we can work out a deal where I do your graphics in exchange for, I dunno, we can figure it out. Hit me up in PM if you're serious about wanting to move forward with the game, and I'll offer you some great insight from your (slightly above) average faucet user.

Cheers!

Thanks for the input Joe, Just got a couple of tasks left and I'll definitely Pm you some more details.

I was going to get the artwork done on Fiverr, but im sure we can work something out like you say.

Cheers

I was having issues getting an adsense account for this website, so have deviated a little from the creation of the original website. If I dont have money coming in form advertisments then there would be no point in doing this as I wont be able to pay the people that come to the site.
All this has been sorted now so I can get back to the aesthetics side of the website, as a few people have pointed out its very bland and Horrid (a bit harsh...lol)

I am definitely interested in this and would be happy to have the opportunity to invest some BTC in a site which wasn't going to scam me or fold immediately. I got into Bitfactory right at the start so didn't lose anything but it's galling to login and see I've currently got a balance of 44 mBTC with buildings halfway through their life knowing that I'm never gonna see it in my wallet.

So when you get the site up and running send me a PM and I'll definitely invest time in helping us both make some money - I already spend about 30 minutes a day on BTCClicks, Moonbitcoin, freebitco.in earning about 2 mBTC a week.

I know how you feel Monty, I only logged into Bitfactory myself the other day and saw i have .141 btc and all my buildings run out.

Ive completed phase 1 of the site now, so its functionality is all up and running and thanks to some help from members of this forum, ive started to style it a bit more and more emphasis being placed on the userflow of the site.

If you PM me ill be happy to send you the link, constructive criticisms are always welcome

I've had a quick look and like the overall thought behind the site - not too much of a fan of the navy and red colour scheme tbf. The HTML is quite a mess though with sections in the wrong place. For example:

https://i.imgur.com/Es6k1kp.png

The highlighted text would normally only be at the top of the html document and only one instance. I'm working tonight so I can have a go at making it neater for you if you want (it's been a while since I've played with HTML but it might help).

I can also help with graphics and images - I'm not very good at creating new work but am pretty good at finding images online (free to use ones) and adapting them.

Thanks for pointing that out Monty. That script is left over from modifying the templates that I based the include once files on (within the PHP Code).

I'll strip it all out and put it in the Header file I use. Then it should only appear at the top of every page going forward.

Im just finishing off a stats menu bar for the left hand side of the page, its a step away from the feel of the site as it stands now, but this new menu is they way im going to take it forward. Ill PM you once it looking half decent for your opinion

Is there enough money in advertising revenue to cover the payouts? This depends on the network you signup with.
Will people actual invest and visit the site? Yes
Can people play for free? yes
Deposit limitations? 1btc.

Hi alwinlinzee, from my initial calcs, I think there is enough money via ads but just in case I'm going to guarantee the first 50 or so players there money back, I'll hold a few bitcoins in the wallet to prove this. Hopefully this will give a bit of reassurance to other people, other than this I'm not sure what else I can do.

I'm signed up with Adsense just need to get some proper content on the site first before it goes live.

The idea is People can play for free and invest, but the limitations on deposits will be .1 btc, anything more and I won't be able to pay out. If everything goes well with the first site then I'll apply it to the next site and so on.

I'm not really bothered about making money from the site at this stage, but looking further ahead for a resale value in the future.

If your interested in having a little look pm me, I'd welcome your advice

Hi Irynet,

I had a little go at cleaning the html for you - https://www.dropbox.com/s/owtph1dkdg2hc5t/miningforfree.html?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/owtph1dkdg2hc5t/miningforfree.html?dl=0) - I was bored at work lol

I've found that the main logo for the site when you click on it it tries to go to http://www.miningforfree.com/miningforfree/index.php instead of the correct address for the home page. Also on the Mine Map main screen whichever continent you try to buy a mine on the next screen always brings up North America.

Hi Monty, I'm going to implement the html changes today (that you helped with). The logo is now fixed (on my test server) so just awaiting an upload to the main site.

I'm not going to worry about North America continent appearing in every mine just yet as I'm in the process of creating some more aesthetically pleasing graphics. Some are uploaded to the server if you want to take a look and give me some feedback.

Thanks for the help again

Much improved Graphics added to the site, Its starting to look at lot more appealing now

So are we ready to play this mining game?

Or is this still in the works?

We have the functionality, The graphics are improving, No tutorials/FAQ as yet, The user flow still needs work (as its horrid apparently...lol...Joe). Needs more content, Still needs integrating with the blockchain, Needs separate CSS styles for mobile devices, but apart from that its looking a lot better than it was a month ago.

If your interested in having a sneaky peak PM me and I'll give you the address

OK, Well its moved on a little since last time I wrote anything.

Spent most of last week improving the flow through the start of the game. eg signing up, loging on, Starting your first mine, Collecting your first coins that sort of thing.

Improved some of the aesthetics of the site as well.

ReCaptcha & FAQ and guides this week also trying to put a bit more content on the site to keep G00gle happy

Adding some Bitcoin wallet integration and away we go

By looking at your last post I guess your a little bitter about something. Probably lost his lunch money to ponzi.

In the last months many faucets sites that were very good in the air and left those who were reduced 1/2 of satoshis for collection, do not know the moitvo, but I think it should be related to adsense

The story continues here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1446670 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1446670)