Bitcoin Forum

AFAIK his IRL name is Pankaj Bharadwaj and he was managing/was from the team of, a bitcoin company in India. Here is a news , published today about his arrest: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Card-frauds-used-bitcoins-to-trade-money/articleshow/50922983.cms
Also an official statement from the company where he used to work: https://coinsecure.tumblr.com/post/139031335450/a-change-in-coinsecure

Got to know this from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720068.msg13840616#msg13840616

Mayne hate it when something like this happens, had been in contact with him in the last month, seemed like a good guy

Edit: Having said that, I believe he should be replaced(or at least removed) from DT 1, or considering his trust list mainly contains the people who are trustworthy at the moment, can his account be locked with an unchanged trust list?

Edit 2: And yes, if someone doesn't know who escrow.ms is, he is a member of DT 1 profile here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=76380

It is quite unfortunate that this happened to another default trust member. In these cases it is negative/neutral rating and ask questions later. Let's see how this story unfolds. Depth 1 needs some attention, there is at least 1 inactive member in addition to this fiasco now.

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You forgot to add a link to his profile in OP. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=76380)

none of escrow are true here  ???

 :-\

BTW: he deserved it  ;D

I don't think he scammed anyone here while he was the escrow. If this is truly the case, then he was a good escrow regardless of this news.

Again another ecsrow is scamming people, what is going on??? From now on, I don't believe anymore in a escrow, they seem all to intend to scam :(

Yes, but card fraud, that goes accros the line. He should get neg repped for this, if you do such things, u dont deserve it.

Now's not the time to play "He kicked my ass once, I'm gonna take sweet revenge" . Anyway, AFAIK he didn't scam any escrows he held even though he had plenty of opportunities to do so, guess he had some other intentions other than scamming here.

Well if he does get removed from DT 1, another CITM is happening.

The news is from reputed channel's website in india and his company removed his position.

lock his account and save other people get scammed (i don't think he will come soon from jail)

He didn't scam here on bitcointalk, rather IRL, quite a difference except for the monetary value pocketed.

Stop spamming because of your signature and read the thread. He didn't scam anyone around here.

His account won't be locked. He will most likely be removed from the default trust list and added negative ratings from several members.

People tend to abuse the situation.

To me it's sweet news (to be frank) because he pulled me down for nothing wrong from my end. If you need to read the full story with proof, check my signature.

God is great 8)

Holy Shit! I have traded with escrow.ms several times on Localbitcoins.Sold him bitcoins couple of times.This is going to get worst.As International Don Dawood Ibrahim seems involved because the transfer of money according to the news article was done by his boys!

Nope you are still a scammer.You always were one.I agree Escrow.ms messed up big time but that doesn't over ride the fact his feedback for you was wrong.

I too heard this news and it was shocking. They seized his 8 lacs which is a huge sum and now they'll recover more 22 lacs. Escrow.ms is in a huge mess and now users should be more careful while trading with strangers in person.

I don't think he scammed anyone. He was dealing in cash with those guys that is the main problem. He most probably did not knew the source of funds buyer sending him and messed up.

Two words.... card cloning.

Dealing in hard cash always risky if it's involved hawala money.

AFAIK he never made any deals in person.Most of his deals were through this forum and localbitcoins only.Also the issues here is not he scammed anyone (he never cheated any trader though,check his localbitcoins trade history),its the money he payed for bitcoins was occupied by illegal ways IE debit cards cloning.

I know, but he is getting funds through hawala, so there is no way to know what is the source of funds.

Another big scam reveal after master's issues. The "Master-P" case already shocked me enough, now escrow.ms - one of the legendary and most trusted members on the forum appears to be fraudulent too...
Hope this case gets solved...

According to the news, he confessed guilty, so he's in a lot of crap at the moment.

Dude,do you know how hawala works or what is it ? Its the money transfer system used by Dawood Imbrahim,he gets commission for that.They move cash from point A to point B with all the risks and of course illegal trades.And if you read the article properly,the CLONED debit cards to get funds which was transferred via hawala.

lol I know how hawala works, don't try to teach me. I know mostly time it's illegal but sometime it's fastest way to transfer cash from 1 city to another city. In India big business also use to transfer cash through those hawala guys.

Well who would have though, someone acting nice in an anonymous forum for a decentralized cryptocurrency was a crook in real life. Not this makes me wonder if he also was a crook before discovering bitcoin or if he became one after realizing the potential. :P

So he took his commission and was helping the card cloner's get the stolen money into coins and spend as they like ? I don't think 120 Bitcoins were worth that much risks loll..

maybe only crook's get into Bitcoin  :P

^Escrow.ms had made deals in person. I remember him meeting up with users on the forum who were staying in his locality and having cash trades. Dealing with unknown people this way can be risky as they can be either frauds or con men. In this case the user was a fraud which made him land in trouble. I know he dint scam anyone but the cash which he received was by a fraudulent person.

Sounds like he knew what was going on and proceeded anyway for a cut. See the quote below. I'm sure there is more to this story though.

You seriously need to read more carefully, before you come to someones defense that already confessed.

^OK. Just read this statement "Bhardwaj revealed to us that Sheikh would procure data related to debit/credit cards through his sources," said DCP (crime) Bhisham Singh. "His associates would clone the cards and withdraw the money and send it to Delhi. Sheikh instructed Bhardwaj to transmit the money to Dubai through the bitcoin route."

Means he's completely at fault here. I thought he was only dealing in person and was unaware of the debit card scam.

This is what happens with bitcoin. A bitcoin user, highly trusted can be an illegal carder. Ty anonymity.


Wait... Does that mean bitcoin is illegal in India?

If all this is true.. belive me, that his Bitcointalk accout, is his smallest problem now.

True. And though I dont like Pankaj, I really hope he comes out of this. I'm not much aware of Indian laws, but going by the news, it seems like he'll be trialed under terrorist financing laws, which will most likely be demonic.

latley i saw an ad from the "biggest exchange" in india. i tried to get some companys paid via bitpay but they refused it

Does anyone know how much (in USD and/or BTC) was involved in the alleged thefts? It appears the article in the OP uses some kind of abbreviation that makes it difficult to determine how much was stolen. (yes the article says that he admitted guilt, however news articles in the past have been incorrect).

I for one have excluded him from my trust network and have left him negative trust until at least everything can get sorted out, although if there is truth to the article in the OP both will remain. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea for him to get removed from DT1 for the time being, at least because he will likely not be active to manage his trust list (even if he is not guilty)

A lakh is 100,000 Indian rupees, so Rs 8 lakh=800,000 is about $12,000, 30 lakh $45,000.

I expect it can, however do we really want this? While he should be remembered as being a good contributor to the forums in the past, he admitted to fraud. I can't say I'm very fond of the idea of a fraudster being automatically trusted by the system.

What I think would be the best way to go on from here would be for existing DT1 members to look through his trust list and determine which users should still be in DT, then adding them to their own trust lists to keep them there. After this, I think that it would be best if escrow.ms was removed from DT completely along with any other inactive/incapable members of DT1. Having dead weight in the default trust list may seem easier now, however it will not further down the line should anything else happen.

What do you mean by this?

tldr he was selling spaces into DT2 and refused to even consider reforming his ways: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990074.0;all

Well, wasn't expecting this. Had a few small deals in the past with escrow.ms . Seemed to be a nice guy. Is he currently holding any escrow amounts?

For reference the following accounts will get removed from DT2 if escrow.ms is removed from DT1 as they are solely trusted by him. I'd adopt some of them but I'm DT2 so won't make much difference.

I know what happened with him, however I do not see the relevance between him and removing escrow.ms from DT1.

As he is arrested, it's clear that any further deals from the account will be from a hacker, or maybe the cops for all we know. So any ratings and feedback(as he's in dt1) would effect the users. Theymos should remove him from dt1 and lock his account as the likelihood of him returning to the forum is pretty slim to none.

Maybe they meant the removal from DT and the 'drama' that usually comes after. Question like:Who will take their place; "Do we really need a replacement; Why isn't person X more suitable than person Y?", and similar.

In these cases it is remove first and ask questions later. Only two members have tagged him so far on my list.

Crazy that so many "reputable" members turn out to be huge scammers. Can't even trust the escrows here.  I keep my trust list pretty trim and had escrow.ms on it.

Card fraud is a big deal too. He could be going away for awhile...

Yeah, there's no evidence that he did, but Jesus...can anyone be trusted here?  You just never know.  That really sucks.

Wasn't he going to use the proceeds of a sig campaign to reimburse Master-P's victims or something like that?  Seems like he was mixing honesty with extreme dishonesty.  Perplexing.

This is why I'm such a strong advocate for multisig escrow.  We really need to make it the norm and get tools for it make it easier to use so even the most 'trusted' escrows can't run off with money.  With first master-p and now this it's showing impossible to trust anybody in the bitcoin world as something besides an arbitrator.  Granted that they could still work with one user to scam, but at least that would be a bit harder to pull off.


I think we fell into his trap by thinking that he had good intentions.  By having such a large amount of trust and being one of the 'best' members in the Bitcoin community, he was probably able to make large trades with ease and not have people question him.  We don't know how much he moved online and IRL, but most people probably wouldn't have batted an eye if he popped up with a ton of money to turn into BTC.

Neither providing escrow nor using a sig campaign costed him anything, so he was making free reputation that could be cashed out with his illegitimate funds.  Smart as fuck.

Guys stop trolling,I hope you all get DT1 and 5000 trust score but for fuck's sake be a logical grown up person when you post.

The article says he is doing this since 4-5 months and have sent X amount of money to Y persons and if we go back 5 months we see him

• Doing several trades with grtthegreat (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=256540) and not scamming him.
  
• Neg-Tagging a newbie for scam ads ioobileszon (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=558047)
  
• Trade with zazarb (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369212)
  
• Neg-Tagging another scammer rickday (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=550389)
  
• Neg-Tagging hacked account torepia (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112491)
  
• Neg-Tagging another scammer Morchid  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=264688)
  
  The above ratings are given only by .MS and none other DT guy so it was his own opinion and was not influenced.Of,course he could have pulled much coins but he didn't.
  
  IMO he might have thought that the card fraud's are going to do this either with him or without him and no-one can get the victim's money back to their original cards or banks and in that case if he uses his trading back-up and knowledge to increase the stash in his wallet then it might be crime of course but i don't think it would make him a bad or dishonest or a scammer either.
  
  Considering the above trades on forum while he was doing the cloning thing it seems like he wouldn't have scammed people directly or hurt them or run away with their money when he is trusted and which is a sign of good/reliable character and also taking a cut from the criminals doesn't makes him a dishonest person.
  
  What i think is that the fraud's knew that they are not in INDIA and the police cannot get to them by any means and they pulled .MS into this most risky position(trader) while cashing their bitcoins coins internationally.More or less I think he was SET UP.
  
  
  Quote from: cooldgamer on February 11, 2016, 05:25:38 AM
  cashed out with his illegitimate funds.
  
  There are Bank Officials involved in this and also international criminals ,it was not his own money....lolll

It's irreverent if he was the highest-up in the operation, he was getting a cut and in exchange he helped to move the money.  There's no denying that his insane reputation on here must have made his trades much easier to make. 

There are few things to it........ the same way it happened with Ross Ulbricht, he confessed under duress, in India there is no 5th amendment or in short no protection against self incrimination. If we all take everything that has been reported as true, then why are we ignoring the trivias. For instance The Joint Commissioner of Police (source http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Card-fraud-Cybercriminals-using-bitcoins-to-trade-money/articleshow/50927536.cms?)categorically says that Bitcoin as a form of payment is illegal in India as decreed by Reserve bank of India - which is utter rubbish. Police arrested Pankaj as they do not have any other scape goat. He is arrested because he has dealt in bitcoins and failed to ascertain the motive of the people involved in the trade. The same way Charlie Shrem got indicted - allegedly supplying bitcoin to drug dealers. They arrested him because he failed to ascertain the motive of the people who bought bitcoins. So, the case is, if I sell knives and some one buys one to commit murder, then I am a party to the crime - is this fair.

The point which everyone alludes to is - Police in India has deemed Bitcoin buying and selling illegal (in cash or through bank channels) sooner or later you will find users getting rounded up for using bitcoins. Pankaj received money and sent Bitcoins in return that is his only crime. His honesty in deals and on localbitcoins is above reproach. He is not a guy to get involved in card fraud. He was used and dumped.

It is easy to label someone as a scammer, there are many who have dealt with pankaj on this forum as well as on localbitcoins. He dealt with someone in cash and that someone turned out to be a carder. He is not a carder neither a scammer. Wait for the outcome of the trial - if he is allowed one.

Well this mean that I can't easily believe escrow even they have enermous trust value from now.
So sad this can happen and Fell glad that he did not scam anyone here on this forum ....

I don't think it matters if he was stealing from members of the forum or scamming "the big bad banks" of India (BTW it is possible that he had stolen from people on here and they didn't know about it). Stealing is still stealing, period. 

According to the story he was laundering the money over several months. He also likely used his strong reputation to make trades that allowed him to carry out his scheme. If he were to scam one of his trading partners then he would no longer be able to carry out his scheme.

I believe there was also an allegation that he left trust for someone that was attempting to influence the outcome of a LBC dispute. I don't know if this allegation has any merit though.

Just yank him from default trust and move a long. He is obviously guilty so not much else needs said or done in my opinion.

I would agree to remove him from DT and all that because it's just officials now and there is nothing that can prove .MS is back,not even signed message lol.But calling him a scammer and blaming his reputation is just childish.He is on forum since years and why didn't he scammed anyone ? or he had a vision when he joined BCT that he is going to get an offer like this in future and he was then building trust for that.Master-P was a coward/loser and a dishonest person cause he actually ran away with the money and tried to justify it saying hack stories.

This is not the case,.MS was not selling anything of his own but he was taking the money from fraud cloners and sending/transferring coins internationally,probably for his cut.

There is also a possibility of him being forced to do this etc...

Yes but he didn't made the fake reputation in order to card fraud in future.So stop Demeaning.

Seems he pretty much knew what he was doing, the consequences of his actions and the risk he was taking.

Yup thats what I meant.

Forced to do so? How? They blackmailed him? I don't know why are you defending him so much. He himself confessed his crime and he did it for 4-5 months which means he was aware of his wrong doings.

Do you mean to say money laundering doesn't make a person dishonest? Can't believe people support him after doing something that's against the law. About honestly, yes he honestly did transfer money via bitcoins to Dubai for the amount he was paid. He was involved in cloning debit cards which is a serious offense (no matter how honest he was on this forum but he was arrested for transferring fraudulent money to Dubai) which was obviously for terrorist or other illegal activities.  TOI wouldn't be so wrong about his confession. No matter what position you hold on an ONLINE FORUM, it doesn't give you the right to launder money. PERIOD.


Edit: To answer the below quote:

"Bhardwaj revealed to us that Sheikh would procure data related to debit/credit cards through his sources," --- This means he knew where the cash is coming from and was the receiver of the funds means he was involved in the complete scam but played a small part. "Bhardwaj was identified as the receiver. "

After whatever happened, I don't want him to own a position in DT1 again. This wasn't a mistake that he did but it was a crime irrespective of his earlier reputation here which he earned, he lost everything by sending funds to criminals.

No one's supporting him dude,they're just trying to figure out what could have possibly went wrong for him to take this step.

Did you read the article ? Read it again.


Maybe he loved doing it ? Its his life choices and he totally served his position in the forum a trusted and reputed escrow and a trader (in online community).Though he was doing his off shore scam business he never ripped a penny with his escrow services or trades on localbitcoins.What he did off this forum was totally his choices ,as far as rep on this forum is considered I'd say he deserved it.

you have to blame the man, merely some sort of basis of Article?!
only the court will determine whether he is guilty or not.
or at least, is the official confirmation of the arrest the same person?

The article would have to be wrong for him to not be blamed it states "Bhardwaj has confessed to having sent Sheikh bitcoins equivalent to more than Rs 30 lakh in the past four-five months. The police also recovered cash totalling Rs 8 lakh from Bhardwaj's house.""

If he confessed he is not innocent.   So article would have to have a massive mistake for him to be innocent.   You don't confess normally if innocent.

Really? So if I ran a service working with someone like master-P, I would not be dishonest if I were to take a cut of any coins he scammed in exchange for changing them to another currency? Do you seriously believe this?

So because he had lots of points on a forum he deserves the $40k that he stole? Am I misunderstanding?

That's probably it.However,there is still no first hand information but only a bunch of articles.

alt accounts ?

Yes he did but i just pointed out a possibility.

Get rid of the mom's basement.

Of course you are,read again and if you couldn't come up pointing out the difference then i will make it more clear for you.

No.

I don't think escrow has been trustworthy pretty much since John K left. Also feels like buyers have lost interest in requiring escrow as its the lesser of two evils to trust a seller.

Omg! This is unbelievable!
I knew Pankaj after I got to know about bitcoins on June 2015. This is because I had several small trades with him via Localbitcoins when I first wanted to buy some btc and know about its mechanisms.

I had contact with him on Whatsapp and there he explained me everything starting from how a transaction works and all other technical details.
He seemed to be a humble guy to me. One day he mentioned about this forum and asked me to join here so that I can get to know the community better.

From that time onward I used to trade with him on Localbitcoins and he had 2 profiles there:
1. https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/escrowmsa
2. https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/bitcoinsbazaar

Just now I noticed this article before I tried to pm him asking for reasons of his absence on LBC.

And this crime is absolutely unforgivable (specially in India) if he had knowingly done this. :-\

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/card-cloning-racket-using-bitcoins-busted-1-held-116020901233_1.html

Well, this is sad to say the least, good thing he didn't harm anyone on the forum, which he could have if he wanted to, considering the amount of trust level he had.

What I want to know is, would this have any affect on Bitcoin in India or other bitcoin traders who had deals with him or BTC traders in general?

In India at present, RBI did not impose any regulations governing virtual currencies.
RBI on 2013 probably, issued a press release on virtual currencies like bitcoins, litecoins, dogecoins etc. stating that creation, trade and usage of virtual currencies as a medium for payment is not authorized by any central bank or monetary authority. 

But after this situation I think they will become strict to their neutral terms! They cannot declare it as illegal since bitcoin enthusiasts in India are growing rapidly nowadays but they might be on the strict side in terms of law from now on.

YES.


NO.They were criminals and police wont involve other innocents who are just trying to earn some money.Though anything significant might be traced.

Captains of industry :D
http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcointalk-default-trust-member-escrow-ms-arrested-for-debit-card-fraud/

Looks like that escrow.ms has been removed from DT and therefore the users under his trust were also removed. However almost all of them are very trusted in my opinion and should still stay in DT. Some rough examples:
icey, bithalo, hedgy73, SebastianJu, snarlpill...

Full list:

Because of his removal, most trust score ratings (including mine) have dropped drastically.

I'm just wondering that
1) Who moved the thread back to Reputation again, as the edit and the thread purpose was to discuss DT removal of escrow.ms and his potential replacement.
2) If this is going to create another CITM like scenario, where people start complaining about their reduced trust rating

Lastly, theymos was a discreet in removing him, didn't even notice it until now.

LOL Many people have lost trust color..

Great, i heard rumours about escrow.ms being arrested but i didn't check it out since i did not even remember that escrow.ms was it that put me on default trust. I checked my pm's and yes it was in march the 12th 2014.  :-\

So now i lose default trust. It probably doesn't affect me but those i gave trust to. I think...

I can't believe what happened. Being on here so long and for a stupid couple of months he did that? And when he only pushed around $60k then what was his share? That was so very unneeded, in fact i thought first he only was scammed by carders, like it might happen easily. But then he admits? How is the police in india? I wonder if confessions are always true or maybe sometimes coming from violence. Don't take it against me when india police is better, i simply don't know.

And he funneled the bitcoins to some anonymous sheikh? Well, if this incident at all isn't bad enough for bitcoin, when they find out that this sheikh in fact collected money for the IS then bitcoin will take a real hit for sure.

Not to speak about the second big escrow being caught redhanded. But now even even was on default trust level 1. Great. The trust in escrows might go down even more. And alot of big escrows stopped escrowing in the last time after master-P happened. Devthedev(devscrow), Blazed and bitpop left and Tomatocage might close his too probably.

Great... being an escrow and having such users having the same title feels actually not really great. :/

Who should add these users in their default list to be re-listed again like it was before. Maybe theymos should add at least the sebastian escrow in his default trust?

Why should theymos trust someone's opinions just because he was on a scammer's trust list?

I see escrow.ms is still on Default Trust level 2 because he is trusted by Tomatocage and BadBear.
Bizarre.

Both are very inactive, not that bizzare when the person hasn't even known about the incident.

lol...I just lost like 50 points of green. I think no one is above 300 now!

Yeah, here's to hopin there will be a new DT 1 member who is active and has a well maintained trust list.

There have been several polls done over the years for that purpose. I am not sure if we need someone added or not honestly.

Considering there are less than 25 active DT members at the moment, it probably is a good idea. Even the usual scam busters like Vod, Ecuamobi and cryptodevil are less active

Alright, so I was added to DT1 and am willing to add a few users if they truly deserve it (people I have overlooked). Feel free to make suggestions of people I should add (obviously I need reasons).

Edit: I will be very active with my list...

Cool, well my suggestions:
1) Cyrus: Active moderator, long time member, quite active in(Edit: Detecting, lol) suspicious activity
2) devthedev: Was a DT 2 member before CITM took the hit, long time escrow, member and trustworthy person.

The other guys on escrow.ms list... don't think they actually deserved it, seems most of them got the position because of a few early escrow/deals.

Edit: And congrats on getting back your 300+ rating  ;)

I hear that QS has been a pretty good Scam Buster in the past :)

And when has self-reffering ever worked?

congratulation,  and compassion :), will flow soon request for inclusion in your list.

Quickseller is -1 in DT depth 2 right now. Does that mean that if he's added in one DT member's trust list it won't mean anything?

If a user in DT 1 adds him under his trust list, QS will be back on DT 2. The DT "score" will be 0, which is enough for being on the DT. Have a look at Vod, he's excluded by Hostfat while being under only dooglus' list.
But if he gets added on DT 2 member's trust list, he won't be on DT 3.

It is a good thing they removed all the honest traders from the default trust so they can populate it with frauds, stalkers, and con artists like Escrow.ms (who was responsible for adding Master-P too BTW). Is no one else seeing a pattern here?

Just out of curiosity how do you find out what DT level  yourself or another member is on, is there a complete list available somewhere?
Can anyone tell me on what level i am on?

You feel that I am not one of the more honest people here?

I remember that he got in some shit with PrimeDice a couple years ago - acting very immature and unprofessional (not 100% sure so don't quote me).  I guess people just forgot about it, but it comes to show that some people never truly change :-/

Blazed:  Congratz on getting on DT1.  Glad to see it, and even more so when you say that your list will be well managed. :)

Thanks...

You are on my list so you are finally part of the DT network.

https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz
or in trust setting- Hierarchical view

currently you in DT level 4 under me

@monbux finally, congratz :)

Congrats Blazed on making dt1, well deserved

That's exactly what I thought too when I saw you made DT1 and you had monbux on your list.

Well done Blazed, absolutely deserved mate.
But also well done on including monbux in your trust list. He should have been there a long time ago. Am sure he, like you, are in most peoples top 5-10 trusted people on this forum.

:)

Congratulations Blazed!
you may also consider re-adding people whose ratings you trust who are only once on DT or ~removing those you don't trust

No,people were scammed by him and any other non-DT escrow can do that.Monbux was holding ten's of coins while not being a part of the network.

Yes,but .MS definitely never took part in any of the swindle's.I wouldn't believe that and also he never scammed anyone on forum while doing the carding thing for more than half a year by which i assume he might have had pretty deep thinking between honesty and business.

What does truly deserve means ?

If the reason must be that they should give you trust then add me ,I will do that...lol because that is what every person in your network is doing ;)

However, if it is just personal benefits and Anschauung over Logic then I think I should just hold my suggestions.

Deserve means they have proven themselves here and are responsible with holding coins or actively contribute here in ither ways.

Why would I need more positive feedback from anyone? Not really sure how I am supposed to take that comment honestly. The people in my network I have trusted with coins and had no issues.

escrow.ms was actually someone that many people here trust. It is still somewhat a bad thing that he is arrested.

And congrats to Blazed for getting into the Default Trust.

Now escrow.ms is still under Tomatocage and BadBear trust list, we should ask if they can remove him from their list.

Both are inactive, and I doubt Tomatocage will return anytime soon.

Seems my recommendations were flooded over by other comments, not sure if a seperate thread is needed for the purpose though:

I know they are inactive, I meant that 2-3 Default trust users (depth 1) should remove escrow.ms (~). Regarding your other post, yes... devthedev and Cyrus seems very trusted.

That is not deserving :)

Yes.CONTRIBUTION is the criteria for someone to be in the deserving category not personal trades or big score.

why would you add all of them who can increase your rating then ? none of the users in your list is someone who haven't left you a rating & many of them don't even post a couple times a week but you still think they should be on DT.

ssateneth & BigBitz have stopped posting since months,dazedfool nothing other than coin trades.

what relation does DT has over person's trust or character ? I am not trusting(if i were to) you because you are level 1 or level 500 but because of the past experience.If a user never did a runner with 200 btc in hand then it pretty much defines his personality.

I would also trust TECSHARE with some typical escrow deal but he is not on DT.
SebastianJu,Shorena,ecuamobi,Vod,M.zakir have never done any coin trades but that doesn't changes the fact that they are pretty active scam busting artists and have saved hundreds of people from scams.It helps the community significantly and also elucidates the meaning of DT.

You are leaving a +rating for the smooth trade & which in turn shows their reputation but that doesn't means they should be on DT ? or if that is how you think then i can start taking interest in coins from now and do a couple of coin trades and also throw some huge tips on you to get a position in your network like the other senior guy i mentioned above , isn't it abusable or at least a questionable idea/judgment ?

Rassah holds 750 btc here 1HQ8WaKVRYXLBtVdMcYr5SHQ3X9BsLyxa1 (https://blockchain.info/address/1HQ8WaKVRYXLBtVdMcYr5SHQ3X9BsLyxa1) but theymos didn't added him to DT ? he might still be a reputed one though.

It'd possibly going to take at least 3 DT 1 members to do that, 2 to cancel out the 2 "score" from TC and BB, and another to exclude him from DT.

@Heu can you and Blazed take it to the PMs or another thread? Currently this thread is here for recommending people "eligible" for DT 2

OK, then I recommend mexxer-2 for DT-2  :P :P & also edit the subject maybe ?

I do not think this is the right way to elevate trust point just by adding another member to DT1.
It would have been better if theymos removed escrow.ms only and added the names under his trust list back to the previous DT manually wihout adding Blazed.

I am not showing any disrespect towards Blazed but I feel that he should remain in the position as was before.

That is not a good idea, why should theymos add certain people who he has never traded with or trusts, to his trust list? At any rate most of those individuals were mostly added because they did a few early trades with escrow.ms , he once even added a person who he had done a small ~$20 trade with.

A third person however, that too , one who (I estimate) has done the most trades, and has the highest(had before escrow.ms was taken down from DT, Ognasty holds the 2nd position because his trust list includes people who he has traded with, and has gotten feedbacks from), would be suitable for a replacement to add new individuals to the DT while considering if some of the old DT members, do deserve it.

Edit: Once again, recommendations:

I think mexxer-2 would be a suitable fit for a DT.There are a number of reasons I could list out but to mention a few he's available most of the time and quite responsive with messages and everything.He knows stuff about the forum and is good at pointing out likely scams.

Then its better not to add anyone at all an leave it as it is. ;)
I think there will be no physical harm to have lower trust points.

Although an exceptional situation happened, the ones under his trust list should try and win their places back from scratch.

Also I think its better to add Cyrus and John K. on DT1 (not devthedev, since I am speculative about him)

If people said the same when Shorena, Ecuamobi, Vod and others were going to be added, how would they know how helpful they would be in the future. Change of this type is not counter-intuitive I believe.
Not talking about DT 1 here, I'm recommending members for Blazed's trust list as he asked for before.

Edit: Can we take the discussion of whether Blazed should or should not be added to another thread or PMs if you want to have a conversation with me, getting quite tired of bringing this post back from the dead

I haven't even read the article, but since he never scammed here, I'm inclined to give escrow.ms the benefit of the doubt and assume (until I get more info) that he is the victim of some government nonsense. But I guess he will at least be inactive for a while, so I removed him.


It's a common misconception that one's trust list is a list of people who you extra-special-trust. Really it's a list of people who you believe have given accurate ratings and will continue to do so -- it's not necessary to actually trust them all that much otherwise. And likewise, if someone is very trustworthy but never leaves trust ratings, then it's somewhat pointless to add them to your trust list.

A lot of people are using the term "DT" in a confusing way... I wrote a vocabulary post about this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=891261.0

So is Blazed only a temporary replacement?

No. There isn't a fixed number of seats in the default trust list or anything.

This is what i was shouting but it looks like many legendary and highly trusted users have childish mentalities and get to conclusion just by reading a bunch of articles.

Tell me who in Blazed list is going to do that ? he himself said this

yes that is what i said in the previews post.CONTRIBUTION.

why me after reading it all ?

I would like you to read this article (https://coinsecure.tumblr.com/post/139031335450/a-change-in-coinsecure) at least since I believe you trust Benson Samuel (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=66510) and he is the CEO of Coinsecure, not a government concerned company either.

As far as I know the news is quite genuine.

The news is obviously genuine because escrow.ms was the only trader at Localbitcoins who was available online 24/7 and since the day he got arrested he hasn't been online and his account is flagged red by localbitcoins as well. 

I think what theymos is saying is, the article doesn't specify whether escrow.ms willing did this or was forced into doing it. Maybe he was forced to confess, who knows.
As for coinsecure they removed him, because they didn't want any of the dirt splattered onto themselves, be it a mistaken one.

Also, he didn't scam anyone on here.

lol, it's normal procedure for every company if someone got arrested first they try to clear their name.

If he come back  non guilty for this they will add him back and if not so they will say we already removed him.

You all have forgotten
Presumption of innocence  principle, that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty.

One of the DT member should add all the negatives given by him to others or else many scammers might be neutral again if .MS is removed.

He is still on DT 2 and many of his ratings are vague as to why someone was given a neg and doesn't generally include a reference

True, but these time people are in so hurry to decide if he got arrested means he is surely guilty.

I know how Indian/Delhi police work they are famous to put charges easily on someone, Courts many times shouted on them why they charges so hurrily.

other then just quotes,pretty much 100% of whatever we/you hear/see bout global problems and stuff, is bullshit and lies within lies.

@deadley,it's similar all around the globe.What do you expect from them when they get an option to make 40-50 millions by just setting up guy with no mafia background and none other not brain washed people to back-up.

I am pretty much sure that .MS wouldn't go that far for just 100 coins deal,also the amount of cash and all those figures are just plain lies.

---

Though pepole are dying to quote theymos,the old man is an Influencer:D

I see your point. Those are people I have trusted with a lot of coins in the past, but they do not add much to the network. This is why I posted about watching my list...I will take a better look at it.

Theymos can help you on that one

I am just trying to help build out the DT2 list some is why I posted about adding people. Being DT1 does not help me in any way honestly (it actually will cause me nothing but hassles). I do not think Theymos wants to deal with keeping track of people who should or should not be DT2 since he is already busy. If you know of a better person toss it out there.

Yeah, I am already going to take a good look at my list.

Edit: That is why I asked publicly for a list of good people ;) I do not see why it can not be open for public debate.

Do you prefer a PM or will you open a thread (maybe in the meta section) ?

PM is pry better.

https://i.imgflip.com/z4tqs.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/z4tqs)

Pm sent, with a few nickname.




Lol, the next time use the direct link of the image ;).

My recommendations have been sent to you as well ;)
Hope you like it

Be careful about redsn0w. He is desperate to get into DT since the CITM days. And u can guess why someone would be so desperate for a DT position. Also, check his neutral ratings, which were actually -ve a few months ago.

No, I'm not desperate ... and much important I didn't ask Blazed to add me in his trust list. If you don't believe me... ask him ;).


So much troll in these days, this forum is fantastic !

*Silently lifts his hand up in the air in the name of his cat.
*Silently watches the thread.

Damn you Blazed. You get Legendary first and now DT1 before me as well? Dammit!

Congratulations mate!

But he didnt do anything + he never scammed or tried to. Most of us have done fraud at one time or another on the Internet.

U r a long time player in this game and I would have been surprised if u made this mistake. No idiot has ever been added to DT by directly asking someone to get himself added. They'd play tricks for confidence building and u r doing the same.

What?

The problem with this sort of reasoning (he ain't stolded nothin from me, honor among thieves) is it breeds exactly what we see here today.
In other words yeah, a guy who steals from others is more likely to steal from you than the one who doesn't. Duh.

Again ... no  ;D.

Try another time, maybe you will be lucky !

Theymos is giving him the benefit of doubt incase in the future the news are fake and escrow.ms will have the chance to clear his name up. Thats all for it however he removed him already from DT list so there is no reason to prolong this anymore because as of theymos stated, escrow.ms has never scam anyone here

Ohoho, what if I told you someone has been/is going to be added to DT by asking for it?

Edit: Actually, nevermind, not gonna name the individual. It ain't me for sure though  :P

I'm adressing the "he hasn't scammed anyone here" bit. But if you're interested in giving him "the benefit of the doubt," there is none to give.
According to the articles, he has admitted his role (& exposed others involved) in the scheme. So unless you're suggesting that a reputable Indian publication is lying about some punkass carder...

This is disturbing. I have had a few deals with him in the past and he seemed like a genuine and really nice guy. Coupled with the fact he was on the board of one of India's biggest bitcoin exchanges and his amazing trust rating on here, i felt that there was no way i could go wrong with him. Guess i was wrong! :(

Yes it is :) A KINDERGARTEN.

He also didn't get banned which is why he is ahead ,what else  ;D ;D ;D

I will kill thermos if blade adds him  >:( >:(

From whom did he steal ?

unless ? reputable ? publication  ? punkass ? what are you even saying and when will you get out of the "  ".

Like i said the old man is an Influencer :D people die to quote him.

If a cat is appointed to DT2 then I will perma afk.

You do not want to start the Cate vs. Doge war with my cat. You really don't.

He's a troll, it is best to avoid him. Escrow.ms has been removed for now and that's the end of his story until we hear from him again.

You need to trust someone on your trust list to an extent above giving accurate ratings. As you need to trust them enough to not give their own sock-puppets positive trust for fake trades, which could potentially create a false sense of trustworthiness.

Default trust & trust system are not the right name for this stuff, as I've said few months ago (maybe one day theymos will change the name).

The "reputable Indian publication" most likely received their information from the police/government, who they believed to be telling the truth.

Even if the article is accurate in saying that escrow.ms confessed, it is possible the confession was somehow coerced.

I would still put the chances of him being guilty as being fairly high though

From ATM machines.
No airquotes, buddy. Times of India is the reputable publication (https://bitcointalk.org/city/delhi/Card-frauds-used-bitcoins-to-trade-money/articleshow/50922983.cms) The punkass carder confessed, ratting out his buddies implicating others in the process.
here:
Where do you see a problem?

Please. It's possible that the sun doesn't rise tomorrow. I'm betting against it tho.
Again, the gist of my post is this:

Do you know what BITCOIN is ? or which type of people get into it ? If NO then learn,If YES then continue.

I am just saying that he is not necessarily 100% certainly to be guilty and that I would be open to believing that he is not guilty if evidence that supports his innocence were to surface in the future (or if there is a lack of evidence that supports his guilt were to ever be presented).

Until the matter is resolved, it is probably best to not actively trust him. 
IMO, a scammer is a scammer, period. It really doesn't matter who they stole from, at least in my eyes

Sure, I know what Bitcoin is. Odds are, I sold you your first coin.
As to the people who get into it, that varies over time. Those who got into it early on were cryptogeeks, gamblers/recreational chemistry fans/vendors after SR became a thing, and, over the last ~3 years, roughly the same contingent that bought into MMM.

If there's anything else you'd like to know, don't hesitate to ask :)

@Quickseller yeah, me too, though I'm not holding my breath. Just find "assum[ing] [...] he is the victim of some government nonsense" is fairly silly. Makes us look like we're on the bleeding edge of the paranoid lunatic fringe.

It's for the fringe guys,who don't need more awareness.Why don't you login into .MS account and post because you clearly are an government/bank official, kiddo...not easy to fold the true bitcoiner's :)

Lol, yeah, for the lunatic fringe guys. Stay batshit crazy & pathologically paranoid, kiddo :)

It is better than a slave :)

>Thinking you're not a slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/HuskerTornado/Movies/TheyLiveGlassesOffl.gif

Lol, keep drinking that Kool-Aid, 'coz that's what they want you to think!

Can we get back on topic? I even changed the topic title for crying out loud  ;D . A discussion if government is indeed controlling you or not might be a topic for politics and society

I was just about to say, this topic is becoming very off-topic...

No prob. I vote for you [and] Quickseller.

Escrow.ms did surely confess of sending btc because he do regularly cash deal I know this. But it doesn't means he knew he was getting funds from atm cards fraud.

The article in the OP said that escrow.ms knew the funds were from the cloned ATM cards.


From what the article is saying, it sounds like escrow.ms was selling BTC (at a premium?) for what he knew to be stolen cash.

That is why I stopped Feeding him.

Though,It is hard to be on-topic when you change it with every alternate post.  ;D

Rename it to e-penis system. oh oh and leaving trust will be known as "giving a wank" :D

oh and @mexxer: i can read your mind :P

 ;D  nice name, send a PM to theymos !

Oh ma god, you know all my terrible secrets. How will I ever be able to manipulate you again?  :P
And "DT" members to be pimps I guess  :D

P.S: Heck even mods get OT many times

Started to rework my list. Like others, I was looking at adding users in the wrong way (based on trades). I based my additions on how much they help out and feedback left. I will likely be tweaking this list more very soon. I hope a semi-democratic list helps out around here. Seems like OgNasty being DT1 is pretty much useless according to Theymos's definition of how trust should work since his list is basicly empty?

Well opinions is helpful, but at the end of the day you should shape your trust list according to whose ratings you trust. Although some members may add no value to the network by being in DT, that in no way means you should be forced to remove them

Every person on my list was by my choice. The goal is people make suggestions for me to look at and make a decision.

It also might be a good idea to exclude some people on DT that have given out reputation loans/reputation ratings in the past, and who otherwise are not a good fit to be on DT, but are.

maybe he is keeping it for a particular category,Like business and Nasty thing only.But Yes,not much contribution to the network.

mexxer is destroying trillions of accounts ,Insta-remove him  :P :P

i followed my own advice and removed DT from my trust list and added some people i trust. now all the rating is see seem a bit strange so i put it back in... i think i will include some of DT even i have no clue who they are

Not even an hour has passed and I already have twothree people complaining, one ponzi promoter , another an account who claims to have been sold after the rating was received. Expect more of them, considering I am the only one in DT currently marking ponzi sites promoter/runner.

And well, if I get power-crazy Lutpin is there to keep me in check  ;D

No, no mate. DT is ... training wheels, if you're "experienced" and visit and interact in marketplace significantly you should remove DT and include people you trust

Thats what i did. i might just get used to it how it looks like. even my own rating looks strange now.

*lol* Not bad... :D I did not check mine since I have many users on my personal trust list, so I lost focus on my trust that is showing up normally.

I asked myself if pm'ing users that can put one on default trust is a good idea, asking to be put on default trust 2, though I think that would not be appropriate nor really needed.

Edit: Meant level 2.

I always was wondering who gets on default trust 1. Probably only persons theymos knows personally? It's a lot of trust involved so it might be theymos is wary of adding more people because of the risk for his trust or so.

Edit: Only see now you mention being added on default trust so congrats.

You know how to give me a great laugh. :D Though i think you did not mean that too serious anyway. It looks way too impossible anyway. :D

@Blazed
Your list looks complete now ;)
Finally mexxer and lutpin can directly mark scammers red without asking other people to do it for them. Congratulations!
Maybe consider adding whywefight too? He has been active recently to organize and clean up the "digital goods" section.

I think I would be a good addition to the DT network, as I was in the past. I don't think you can deny that most of what happened with me was because of people's emotions getting the best of them. BadBear removed me because I was less then honest about being banned, and really removed me because of this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171059.msg12349352#msg12349352) post. Tomatocage removed me because he was under intense pressure by others to do so. Dooglus excluded me because he routinely does things to sites that allows him to steal money that is similar to what tspacepilot did to coinchat and does not want to endanger his reputation (he similarly excluded BAC when BAC called out dooglus for giving inside information re CLAMs).

There are a very small number of ratings in which other, reputable members have suggested that I should remove such negative ratings, and the single complaint about a positive rating was from someone advising that an account was recently sold. 

Got to agree with Qs. He has been a really good scam buster and has helped the community a lot. He's still helping out now even though he's no longer on the DT network hence i think he deserves a spot too.

Not as impossible as you might think it is.

whywefight actually does a great job regarding the "digital goods" section.

Basically agree with QS too. But honestly, having mexxer and lutpin should be enough for now (IMO). There is no need for someone to neg-trust a scammer several times. If it's red, it's red.

Well, there are reasons.
One was described by qs and others quite often already. If a scammer gets neg-trust from only one user in DT (lets say, from qs back then), others think "hey, he already got neg trust"
and that one user then is removed from DT for some unrelated reasons (may it be pulling some questionable actions with his alts),
the red trust vanishes into the "untrusted" section and the scammer is free to have another shot.
With several DT users marking a scammer, that is less likely to happen.

Or to put it in the words of QS himself:

I downloaded that file but how do i read it?

For example I see that theymos has phantastisch on trust. And phantastisch has me trusted. Does that mean Iam on default trust level 2 now again?

You are in DT2, but not on that route.
You are on the downlist of Blazed (DT1).
theymos (DT1 aswell) has phantastisch in his list (-> DT2), which would put you on DT3.

---

No longer.

I tend to think that with the current trust we have three levels of how members should vote. First is untrusted and trusted from someone on default trust 2. Their trust ratings does not really mean much since they only show up on untrusted feedback and very few check there.

Next is default trust 2. Which means you have to be a lot more cautious who you trust now since your trust shows up for everyone. Your trust means you can trust this person and you show this to everyone. So it is not a thing of "a trade went well" anymore. You need to think of the person of someone you somehow got the impression of that you can trust him.

Being switched to default trust meant that i had to deal with that since i received a whole thread of complaints about it. So i created a new trust policy for me as escrow:

* No trust rating to account sellers, buyers or the account traded generally. Because i cant tell if the buyer is using the bought account from now on or if he will sell it shortly after. And i cant tell if a seller is selling the seller account shortly after too.
* No trust rating at all to escrowed amounts worth <$50.
* Deals where i was escrow should not get green trust since there is no risk involved to buyer and seller. So i can give a neutral trust (see trust options, neutral is a comment only and doesnt affect the rating) to them when rule 2 does not apply. I will state the escrowed amount as risked btc and mention that it is the escrowed amount.
* Exceptions of the above rules are possible if i trust a person really. Have the impression that he showed he is a honest guy or something like that.
* I will only give one trust rating and try to put all ratings in one rating.

Guess you have a lot more responsibility on that level.

Edited a part out. It seems like the normal trust rating are handled the same like with on default trust 2. Only the trust list is putting someone on default trust 2.

A way to not give wrong trust too. :D

Anyway, what is the difference between you giving green trust to a user the normal way and you putting a user into your trust settings? Is it the same basically? If so then you have to be really cautious now. Though i think you already found out.

Well, it looks like a lot of work to me. :D

I had to laugh because you are so consistent on holding on your account even though it looks pretty unlikely getting the red trust away.

I agree you are a good spambuster but you might remember that i at least once spoke against your red trust. I think you gave red trust way too freely. Red trust can practically destroy an account and it seems to me the complaints about your ratings were not only from scammers but from people who genuinely felt their feeling of justice hurt.

Can happen easily.

Most of what happened to you was because of your "self escrow" and you're obviously still in denial about how dishonest that is.

Ah thanks for the explaination and thanks Blazed on adding me again. :) I did not see me added on the list i downloaded some hours ago.

In fact i had thought that theymos was default trust 0 and everyone on default trust one got his trust from theymos. It would make sense since someone had to add them. Though as admin you don't really need to use the trust system for that i guess. Only backend change.

So the list can't tell you who is default trust 1 since there is no notice about the level. You only can judge from ratings when you know someone is default trust x.

If I add someone to my list (like I added you) they become DT2 members and their feedback shows up for everyone. If I leave feedback it is the same as before.

Did you read the post by theymos you replied to? Did you read the thread he linked? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=891261.0
If you give a positive trust to a user, that will result in a change of his trust score for all those users who got you in their trust network. If you're on DT1 or DT2, your ratings will be shown as "trusted" with default settings.
If you put a user into your trust list, that will include him into your trust network and show that users trust ratings as "trusted" for you (and those from users in their trust list,... / depending on your trust depth).

Actually, since trust ages, and only your oldest trust influences the rating, you can easily leave a new trust for every reason you have to give a user a trust rating.
Giving 2 trusts wont affect his score, as giving 2 negs won't either (compared to giving only one of them). Deleting and reposting however, can result in a lower overall score, since the first trust might have already aged.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think QS is back to 0 on default settings.

That list is updated weekly on Saturdays. Balzed probably added you after the latest update of the trust.txt.xy

I believe you are mistaken. It looks like I am in your trust network because of your custom trust settings.

You are, but what I was talking about is this:  "Trust: 0: -4 / +17" (taken from an account with a clean trust list)
Your overall trust rating on default settings is back to a 0 (-> a black rating, with an orange -4).

With my trust settings that would be a "Trust: -9: -5 / +23 Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" btw.

Yes that is correct.

I thought you were referring to someone adding me back into the DT network

Nope, only was talking about your trust rating.

Before i kicked dt out i noticed qs doesnt have those ?? ?? anymore

Ah lutpin wrote it

mexxer-2 and RHavar (not completely sure about this one) got added to the DT so he got more positives.

RHavar moved from DT4 to DT3 with mexxer moving from DT3 to DT2.
Yep, my bad.

I technically have neutral trust right now. However even when I did have "red" trust, (eg a "trade with extreme caution" tag), I was able to participate in signature deals, was able to engage in trades at favorable prices/rates to me, and was entrusted with multiple other people's money in fairly decent amounts. I also feel that I have a decent amount of respect.
I don't think any QS threads were created by anyone who did not have a negative rating from me.

Some people may say that I was quick to leave a negative rating, however I never left a negative rating without evaluating all of the facts and information available to me. I was also very rarely incorrect about someone being a scammer, and when I was outright wrong, I would quickly remove any negative trust that I left when evidence is presented that shows I was wrong (case in point ndnhc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1072408.0;all)as the evidence that I presented stood up to scrutiny for several days, and once ndnhc pointed out something that no one else did I removed my negative rating and apologized).

For the most part I never left negative trust unless something was actually stolen, or if there was a clear attempt to steal (or an alt thereof)

Well i decided to add him to my list too. I dont trust him but somehow his ratings. Also i might not agree with him sometimes but somehow i have some respect left for him. He is a bit harsh sometimes. Sounds strange i know. Cant really decide.

Doesnt mean i wouldnt trade with him. My view might be blurred because i am sick of reading the qs/vod/dooglus/bac etc drama storries all over the forum...

uh nope. Rhavar is on DT2 with bare DefaultTrust list. not sure who added him as he's not on Blazed's list. (and you're in his list, in case you missed.)

RHavar is in dooglus's trust list

He's the guy who runs moneypot right ?

He ran moneypot before he sold it a few months back. I believe he now only runs bustabit

It's very sad to hear about Pankaj , thought I haven't traded with him but he has done many innovative works for circulation of bitcoin in India , I feel shame that he was involved in card frauds.

That's probably a fairly accurate description, but TBH I'm pretty disappointed that it worked out like that. The purpose of all the complexity in the trust system was to make it decentralized, yet to a very large extent it became centralized in the form of DefaultTrust. I'm tempted to try out my alternate idea for bootstrapping the trust lists of new users which I posted about a while ago just because I find the centralization very annoying, even if the new system might be objectively somewhat worse.

You are the one responsible for that.Like there is a chinese saying "there is nothing like a bad student".
DeaDTerra is inactive and most of his list members are,other high level guys dont even know the purpose and all this because of who ?

you are just giving gun to the.......but not N.P to buddha.Remember, the weapon's resulted nothing other than abuse in the history of mankind,the safety had a negligible share.

He is having some pussies to support him lately,don't say anything to them cause the pussy gang is on POWERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Honestly i would have supported QS if he would have apologized instead of the "thinking" to do/say anything just to save the reputation.Even in the law if a criminal ever says that he is not guilty then he usually get's a life imprisonment cause he might do the same thing again because he doesn't feels guilty.

You are a good contributor but you clearly explained why you dont deserve to be in control of something.

Feel free to add me if I'm not already on that list.

No pressure.

Yeah my green score is dropping...lol who cares as long as I know i'm honest that's all that matters  :P

You're on DT 2, on two DT 1 individuals' list actually. Quite impressive.

Smoothie, I wouldn't worry about your trust score. :P

Ah ok, then all normal trust feedback is handled the same way like anyones on default trust 2. The thread sounded a bit like you gave normal trust ratings to members you traded with and that they now automatically were on default trust 2 now that you are on def trust 1.

Good that this is divided.

Yeah, I realized now. I thought that someone who is on default trust one and is giving a green trust to someone that this person will automatically be leveled to default trust 2, even when he is not in the trustlist. Though it seems that is divided luckily.


Yeah, I made some errors by deleting old trust rating so consolidate them back then led to them losing some points. :D

But i may revise that point. I added it to not clutter the trust ratings with too many ratings though I only would need to give another rating when the trusted amount is considerably higher. Or something like that.


I think he would still show up red, only his given red would show up again too. I only think going against all these red trust rating will break hell lose. I would not want to be in the persons position who does this. I saw what happened when all those, who felt being treated unfair by QS, saw finally the chance to kill his red trust. It was a mess.

feedback and adding to trust list absolutely difference things, automatically jump only people in old blazer trust list until he not remove or add new manual.

Think you're over-exaggerating here, he probably made bad choices, but here he is, still helping out. He might've even either not be removed from DT at all, or reinstated by now, if not for the negs he has given to a select few people and if he hadn't faked his ban

Only realized it now, you have -104 or so because of my trust list. :D

And yes I agree you still have a lot of respect.


I think that doesn't really matter. There were alot who claimed you give everyone red trust that criticized you so that fact? might be no wonder. ;)


I know, but your evaluating was not seldom of a kind that a big majority disagreed with you and you still held onto your rating because you, for example, felt that someone would have wanted to scam.


I think the "for the most part" was the problem. I had the feeling of you being stubborn often enough as long as the victim could not provide proof against your rating. Which of course was impossible when you rated on a feeling that someonew wanted to scam only, so no scam happened at all at that time.

But let's not make this thread into a quickseller discussion. I think I wrote all points I think on that point already. Yes I agree with you doing good work as spambuster, only your rating technique is somewhat destructive at times. ;)

Yes the trust system is one of the hot topics of critics on the forum. :D Mostly because of people feeling treated unfair for being rated negatively by people on default trust.

There are suggestions in the room to force people to build their own trust list but somehow I believe that will only lead to newbies not care about adding someone. They would simply see no ratings at all anymore. And forcing them to do so would mean that they would add the same people that are on default trust now, just to get this point done and being able to use the forum.

Bootstrapping would mean an initial trust list, if Iam not wrong, which still would bring critics because people would say newbies will see the ratings from these people the same way like it is with default trust now.

To be honest, I was on the forum for years without touching the trust list because the default trust ratings were a relatively good rating most of the time. At least when the negative trust is a high number it is pretty sure someone is a scammer and that it is not only someone was angered by another person.

I really don't know how this could potentially be solved since if it is not automatic then it would be manual to some extent. And i doubt many would want to do the work checking rating and users out.

There are no alternative trust systems out there where one could learn from i guess. Otherwise it would have been suggested already.

I dont know why QS needs DT as he is already being respected because of the contribution and help, but there is no need for him to start the ESCROW & DT business again in order to help the community.It has no connection at all.There are enough people active for that :) or if he is doing all this just to get back then again..lol its untrustworthy and he is doing what he doesn't want to just to get to an abusable position.

Continue the good work and some people might still treat you like the old times but the community wont.

The best is to show both the negative and positive feedback side by side.This will not only kill the greed for a high score but will also solve the abuse issue cause one user cannot damage anyone's reputation.

There will be a competition if there is an end point on the race track but my suggestion is to put the end point at an infinite distance and just let it be a path where people will/can only walk but wont fight for the position because there is none.We could still have DT levels even then with more weight then others.

I thought about a threshold before an account is shown red. So if a user only angered one member on default trust and only that user rated him negatuve then he is not instantly red. Which raises his chance to overcome that red rating with green ratings.

If that red rating is genuine then it would be pretty easy and fast to get other users rate him negative too. By creating a spam accusation thread. Spambusters are very fast on rating then.

The advantage would be that you would need to have more than one peoples judgement to push someone in the negative. It would be a little bit like swarm intelligence. A community court of some kind. :D

Well, I think alot of complaints could have prevented that way.

Won't that centralize it further? The one at the top would hold the most trust "weight"

And well, this is a thread for recommending users.

That will be theymos just like now.But one DT user like QS can troll anyone non-DT like pilot' in present Trust system and he will fail in the suggested idea cause there is no rating score but just +- which don't connect each other ever.

It still doesn't explains why he is referring himself :)

Quicksandseller has been bragging in a separate thread how those he neg reped have been coming to life to scam again since their slates have been wiped clean as it were.

*edit* http://archive.is/JPIKO


2nd edit Lutpin

My "trust" is set to default, this is what I see:

http://s30.postimg.org/gx2sycvyp/Capture.png

Congratulations, Quickseller!

I really like it how every topic becomes about qs... not...

Was about to say something to Timelord over at the known alts thread, was about to say something to him here,
can't you just sort out your problems with QS in private?!

Have no idea re. how trusting you are, simply telling you what it looks like on default trust. No need to take my word for it: register a throwaway account, log in, see for yourself :-\

Why all of the QS hate? He did 1 bad move, but before that 100s of good ones. Should he ever escrow again...? Obviously not. Has he helped the community...yes.

I don't trust here any one, you are favouring QS because you had been fulfilled loan from him.

lol...what? I have never taken a loan or given a loan to QS.

Blazed, I realize this thread is not about QS but I'm just going to say this:  I realize QS has done good for the community.  I've seen that.  But after watching him try to defend his self-escrow thing, it's quite obvious he does not realize exactly what's wrong with what he did.  And therefore I don't trust the guy.  This is a forum about money, right?  It doesn't matter if QS can spot scammers and call them out--a scammer can very easily recognize a scammer, and he will point them out to potential scamees in order to gain trust.  QS has proven that he can't be trusted in a deal that involves money.  He took two out of three sides of a deal whilst allowing the outside party to believe the other two sides were independent of each other.  And they were not.  That is fraud, and his rationalizations after he got caught were breathtakingly dishonest.  And he hasn't learned from that.

All I can say is that if I sent him 5BTC right now I would have 0 concerns about getting it back. I really do not get the self-escrow mess, but I know he would not have stolen/scammed someone out of their funds. Anyways this is off topic I suppose :P

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ?

Location maybe ?

That 1 bad move was abuse and which makes it impossible to judge that all those previous moves were abuse or help.

How is it off-topic ? He is self-recommending for DT2 and people are discussing on it , NO ?

I agree he did helped the community, but he is the guy who can't hold power with responsibilities.

When he get power he is different person and think himself superior and other inferior.

QS has repeatedly made the accusation that I am an Alt of a person who has set up a post your cash in the mail and receive BitCoins in return service.

No proof.  Nothing.  Just a baseless accusation, all because I "didn't ask enough questions" of the user who was setting up the service.

I again call on the moderators to verify the IP's don't match.

*edit* link to QS defamation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1323757.msg13679388#msg13679388

I feel that you are assuming QS as untrustworthy only on the context that he defamed you , man this is personal.

Even though I don't trust qs , o have seen him accepting that he has many alts here , who know he might be pulling some scams with those.
He is smart enough to fool people around.

Congrats to Blazed for making DT list and also mexxer and the others as well.

It seems the issue around removing escrow.ms from DT and adding some fresh members seems to be resolved. Unfortunately this thread is ow turned into another Quickseller discussion.

Mexxer, I suggest you lock this thread to prevent it from going off topic further. For those who'd like to discuss Quickseller and their reputation go to one of the existing threads or open a new one. Thanks!

Lets wish him a happy birthday: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=76380

Yeah seems there are not many users who deserve DT 2 but aren't in there.

Edit: Just unlocking the thread if we're not going for any more QS hate discussion

Wanna go halfsies on a cake?

http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/74/c21bf8cee324a5be785f265fb3e190ac/l.jpg

We can either send it with or without a file, your call.

It is better to add a poll in this thread with all the members listed on escrow.ms's trust list.
Based on a minimum poll, lets say 20, list those members on DT.

Obviously there will be an abuse to the polling system since all entries are anonymous but it would be better if the one who voted there should write the name whom he voted by replying this thread.

Btw how is that cake popped up on his profile? I don't know about the tweak maybe.

Well anyone is free to suggest anyone directly(via a post) and as polls are abusable, I'd rather not add one.

As for the Cake, try setting your birth-date as today, it an easter egg. I hope you've heard about the "leet" easter egg at the very least

Using a poll to vote in a member of DT?  What could go wrong with that?  Seriously there are enough problems with trust on the default trust list that we don't need to start doing sketchy shit like that. 

No DT1 user would add someone to his downlist because that guy got alot of votes in a poll.
Heck, probably no user at all would add someone into his downlist because of that.

Did the sarcasm not come through in my post?  Lol.  I really need to start doing the [/s] thing.

Oh no no, it clearly did. I was more addressing Indiana, who suggested it, than you/mexxer, who turned his suggestion down.

Any update about escrow.ms?
Feel sorry to all this mess around the old trustworthy escrows... This isn't helping the community nor btc at all...

Dont think it'll be that bad though to be honest. With the right amount, im sure anything can be 'settled' there. http://www.transparency.org/cpi2015

Though he probably has no "right amount" to embezzle some corrupt person that can help him out of this case. The police wanted this case big so the amount will be pretty high. If it would only be on a low basis, not in the press, then he might have had no problem.

I mean when he would have had the money he would not have started such a stupid thing.

i saw his profile just now henceforth gotta know he was arrested , thing is i dealt more than 100 btc worth of deals with him directly to my bank account  so is there any problem?

Not much, if there were any problem you already did got summoned from Police. 

Police just investigating debit card fraud so there is no issue in your selling BTC.

As said above, so long as the deal wasn't related to the BTC used by escrow.ms to commit the crime I doubt there will be any problems.

Also, is it me, or is escrow.ms still on DT 2? Is this right?

Any news from his side? Is he charged for the crime?

yes he is still in DT2, and it's not bad he did not did anything wrong here people still trusted him and we don't know story from his side.

Can u tell m what is DT2?

"DT2 -"Default Trust up level 2, this is a list of people, whose feedbacks are visible to everyone by default.

P.S.
 any news about escrow.ms ?

Any News about the guy mentioned in Fraud? Its about to be 1 year now since he has not logged in.
Any Indian has any latest info about Pankaj Bhardwaj?

He would be out on a bail.If you're not a murderer,a known criminal or a thug,chances are less that you rot in Indian jails.Especially when money is involved,they let you out on a bail.I hope he is doing fine,nice guy.

~75% of prisoners in Indian jails are undertrials. If you are able to arrange the money and get a good lawyer, you can get bail.
He probably is lying low, even if he has been released on bail.

I remember escrow.ms was one of reliable user here.

He was very reliable user and a trader.He was amongst the first few bitcoiners I bought bitcoins from.Matter of fact ,little did we knew he was money laundering a big racket.Their teams even robbed ATMs and converted the cash into bitcoins along with other bank scams.Had to end it that way...

Escrow.ms may have been honest but he was involved with criminals which makes him liable too. He was very well aware of what he was doing and just to earn some extra money, it costed him more than what he earned and he ruined his entire life. What he used to do earlier now doesn't matter and I doubt he would return back to this forum or ever deal in bitcoins again. This only proved that what we think of a person as honest doesn't make him one.

I see some 0.64BTC still available in his Address ( https://blockchain.info/address/1nPfxnncZqWvVP4UHT6XLfNzfaik7akQS ) , is he still accessing this forum from other accounts or he just left the bitcoin world and this forum?

You basically just repeated what I wrote with some extra psychology.What makes you think he won't use bitcoins again ?
1.He would be out of the jail most probably. In India murdurers run free,forge a bitcoin scam.
2.Who knows if he's already active on the forum with other account?

^^

I was just trying to say that a person is not considered reliable by just being trustworthy on a virtual forum and I'm saying this for anyone over here as we don't know any user personally to consider them honest or reputed or reliable. I just cannot blindly meet a person from this forum just because he's a mod or admin and I've known users who have met this guy personally and still vouch for him being trusted. They too could fall into trouble if he was sending them the cash/bitcoins from such trades. People did not want him to be out of DT2 just because he was not scamming on the forum and did something WRONG outside this forum.

If he's active on this forum with another account, it can be tracked easily by the moderators or the ones who detect alt accounts. He must have paid a lot to get released on bail (lawyer charges etc). Any sensible person who has been through so much wouldn't return back as hes being legally watched too.

...and he's back...

This user recently woke up from a long period of inactivity.


and slapped four of six with DT with Red Paint ^TM (but not dogie or shorena)


Will be interesting to read if they still want to raise funds to pay off the victims of master-P http://archive.is/yT9h3#selection-639.0-639.108

TimSweat, the dude who defaulted on a loan I made to him almost exactly one year ago,  contacted me today.  I have a hard time believing it's really him, but someone has access to his account.  Frigging bizarre stuff on April fool's day.

So Escrow.ms is out of jail and pranking people on eve o 1st April  ;D, I am sure he would have different accounts here and would be peeking on this thread, I wish to see some movement of BTC from his wallet.

It really doesn't matter, since he is no longer on default trust.
But I have to admit, his waking up after such a long time does look peculiar.

Maybe he is looking to escrow the deal between Roger and Loaded if that happens  :D :P

@Timelord2067, good catch!

You didn't think he would ever get out of jail?

I guess now that the "This user recently woke up from a long period of inactivity." Tag is being slapped on UID's we're going to see plenty more alts of the alt known as quickseller posting flip comments that don't actually progress a discussion along...  ::)

Probably the best fool, and I've missed it.

---

Wonder why escrow.ms is not responding to this thread/writing any posts.
I'd like to see them showing in which way the accusations against them are false.

escrow.ms came online 30 mins ago http://archive.is/gXSyq#selection-375.0-383.15 and removed the


from the various trust walls they'd placed it on.

 I've been here from last 4-5 Years and You can not find a single person who can say I took a penny from him. I've done my deals honestly and was doing my business that's it. It's a funny world where you are guilty until proven innocent. Personally I don't give a fuck about what people say behind my back but if you really want to make a opinion of me in your head, You should talk to me first. Because All those news you've read is not true.

Bro,I've known you since early localbitcoins days and have traded high amounts of bitcoins with you without any problems.But the news was heart breaking because I did not believe I've traded with a criminal (as they called you).Later the news about how you along with your clan used to rob ATM's and convert the money into bitcoins which has later sent to other criminals abroad and liquidated again was just too heinous of a crime.You might have been played around,you had no idea you were doing this maybe but at the end of the day,whatever the conclusion is,people will always  have second thoughts about you.

Which is exactly what someone who was actually part of it all would say. That ain't going to work around here.

That, being true or not, has no relevance to any of this.

You were proven to be guilty, that's the thing. ::)

I've worked with escrow.ms in the past and I can tell you that he is one of the most honest people I've met in the Bitcoin Industry.
He sold some Bitcoins to someone he shouldn't have and I am pretty sure that he didn't know about the credit card scam.

He was always honest while trading with people on Bitcointalk and on LocalBitcoins, which I respect.

Welcome back, bro. :)

You were already arrested. Were you not?

I do not need to do anything.

Of course. That's why you PM'd me. How childish of you.

When I read things like:
"Bhardwaj revealed to us that Sheikh would procure data related to debit/credit cards through his sources," said DCP (crime) Bhisham Singh. "His associates would clone the cards and withdraw the money and send it to Delhi. Sheikh instructed Bhardwaj to transmit the money to Dubai through the bitcoin route."

and

"The probe revealed that he had handed over the money he received to a person on the basis of code words sent from Mumbai.
Bhardwaj was identified as the receiver."

It seems like you were aware something wasn't right... code words when receiving the funds? And it appears you knew your source was procuring data for cards?  Where did you think he was getting this data???  

You probably can't say much, but the trial should be interesting. If you are truly innocent and got caught up in the wrong crowd, I wish you the best.

Considering he is in India,you know it's easy to get away with such issues.Court and stuff is bullshit,money rules the courts around here.If escrow.ms bribes a few officers involved in the case,they'd burn the documents and won't leave any traces.And if he use even the smallest political powers ,even better,he'd be out on bail within seconds.Welcome to democracy.

That's a fair point, I'm not entirely familiar with the legal system in India so I can't comment one way or the other but there is certainly a different definition of "justice" in some areas around the world. I'm at least doubtful he is going to get that same treatment in this community.

There was no interrogation, they wrote something in their local language and asked me to sign it and I had to do it that time. Everything you've read in news were made up by the police guys.

I was not aware of the crime else I would have contacted police first.  Thanks buddy.

You were convicted of a crime that was a serious one. You're talking about people who you might have dealt with on the forum and there may be very few people who might have dealt with personally. Nobody can be sure or trust a person just because they have dealt with on an online forum and hence when this news came out, it took everyone by surprise as you were a reputed and trusted user. I can understand your frustration and can sympathize with you if you indeed are innocent and were unaware of all those illegal deals that were reported. You're not guilty yet as your trial is still pending. Hope that the truth wins then.

Thank you buddy.

So, u were arrested and had to do a jail time without any trial? How long did it take to get your bail?

13 Months and yes because It's India. In Normal Cases like mine trial takes 4-5 years.

Terrible. Were u involved in cash trade? Did they physically torture u at jail?

By the way, if u plan to be back to the bitcoin community, I guess it is good if u tell your side of the story like both Charlie Shrem & Burt Wagner did.

Yes cash trade and No I was not phyically tortured but living in an Indian Jail is not easy, you don't get seprate cells or facilities like TV,Radio or even a Bed. I was living with 50-60 people in a 2500 sqft room.

I will post my story soon, I'm just busy with Court etc right now. I can't blame people, they believe what they read in papers but I'm not some random guy, I've been here from a long time, my identity is public and atleast they can give me a chance to explain what happend instead of accusing me, that's Public Procecutor's job. If I am guilty I will go to Jail and If I'm not I'll be free. People need to understand that what if, If I am innocent are they going to give me my 13 months back or my reputation. I have suffered, my family suffered even more. So please instead of accusing and bitching about me, give me time. Time will tell the truth.

Was going to change my trust to neutral for the time being, but handing out negs after having claimed it was not you who did it the last time is not cool

Even if the court declares him completely innocent right now, I see no reason to ever take down the negative I have applied here. I may only rewrite it to properly describe his unjustifiable trust abuse. Not that I'd believe that a person behaving in this way is likely to be innocent rather than guilty. ::)

Correct. You have left 14 unjustifiable retaliatory ratings. https://i.imgur.com/DGDU34f.png

Threatening me now, are we? Go on, that will surely help you.

---

Archived for reference: https://archive.fo/dAReR#selection-4055.340-4055.449

It's a shock somebody like you used to be DT1.

Nothing shocking here. Assuming everything escrow.ms is saying is true, which I don't know if it is at this point, I could certainly understand the reaction.

It's understandable, however nonsensical. Regardless of whether the crime was done intentionally, it was still committed. Insulting people and leaving retaliatory feedback for pointing this out doesn't help any sort of reparations to your reputation.

While I would very much like to have someone like escrow.ms back in the community, him throwing the toys out of his pram isn't the right way to go about coming back. Explaining what actually happened, why it happened and having calm, sensible conversations with those who left him negative feedback explaining the situation perhaps would be.

If that was that easy he would have been out in bail long back and he was put in jail for 13 months before getting a bail and the trial is not even started.I know the court stuff will drag your life but it is not that easy like you say that everyone is corrupted. Unless you get tangled in a court case in India you will not know how hard it is to get out.

I really do not know what the truth is,but what he is said is true,India being a country with more languages it will be hard to understand any local languages and everything you read in news are not exactly true and if you read all the news papers available you will see different versions of the event in each news paper .

People change being in prison.  I realize this guy didn't get a life sentence or anything, but having your freedom taken away, especially in a country like India, can harden a man.  I'm surprised he's back here looking to get his rep back, but perhaps that shouldn't be shocking.  Trying to convince a community as jaded as this one seems to be after committing (allegedly) a financial crime is going to be a tough haul.

I was on DT because of my reputation of being a trustworthy man not because of my language or race.

You can see my localbitcoins profile here
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/escrowmsa/

I went to Jail due to same reason, If I was a crook and was involved in a crime, I would have flown away with millions. But no I was at my home when police literally kidnapped me from my home and asked my family to not contact local police, they asked me if I have CCTV installed at my home, which I didn't had. According to chargesheet I was not arrested from my home, I was arrested from India Gate, where I've never went in my whole life. Now you can imagine how corrupt Indian police is.

I have learned one thing in Jail that being silent is a sign of cowardness. If you want to survive you have to fight or you will die.

I'm sorry i was just frustrated that time, I was arrested for a crime I did not commited, I had to spent 12 months of Jail in a city that's 1500km away (Mumbai, Maharastra) and 1 month in Surat (1200 km away) (Different states) from my home. I've never been to both places before my arrested. Sorry If I'm being rough, It's not my fault I was forced to live with hardened criminals.

Ps: I tried to ask them politely first, however I was not able to explain them about my case in brief because right now my priority is court. I need to visit courts in every 7 days. After spending a year in Jail my financial condition is not good. I can't travel by Air so I'm trying to cut that cost by travelling in train and It takes a day to reach there.

I had traded with escrow.ms over LBC and i am amazed that police lied a lot in your case.
1.were you framed?
2.were there was intentional conspiracy about you or it was just misconception from investigation department?
3.can you let us know how is INDIA jail in terms of condition.(food, Hygiene)
4. Are you married?
5. man i deeply sympathize for you if you are innocent, Your real name is open so it says a lot about your personality. :)

good luck, will be happy if you could write a brief journey during these 13 months, It will be inspiring. Not many people who get into such shit get a chance and respect like you are still getting here.

I have two questions...

1. I think, a similar incident happened to a person named Mahin Gupta, who is currently CTO of ZebPay. His bitcoin trading volume was most likely bigger than u. But, there was no arrest etc. for him. So, why administration was so strict about u?

2. Media reports that u transferred coins to someone name Sumair Sheikh in Dubai. Did u get to know this person on Bitcointalk?

Hi escrow.ms

I have not crossed paths with you before, I was inactive on the forum at the time you were around, though I have followed your story carefully over the last year.

If you truly are innocent, I am sorry to hear that you have been subjected to a year+ in prison for a crime you did not commit. However, I need to agree with minifrij here, being angry at the community, insulting members, being rude, etc - will not do you any favours.

If there are certain elements of your situation that you cannot go into for legal reasons, that's understandable, but please refrain from lashing out at others. I can only imagine what you have been through during your ordeal, and can see that you have never screwed anyone on this forum, but you were arrested and did time for a serious offence/s. I am not educated in relation to the legal system in India, so am not in a position to comment on the corruption that may have occurred during your arrest and detention, along with what was published in the newspapers at the time.

You have only just come back. Give it time, tell us what you can without putting yourself in a position of being in further trouble with the law, and again, stop lashing out at others.

Lastly, please do not expect for you to regain your reputation overnight, or for the community to start siding with you just because you didn't screw anyone over on the forum. Things are as they are, and the only thing that is going to change that - is time.

All the best.

As I said, it's completely understandable. Being punished for a crime, especially one that you did not intend to commit, is of course very stressful and hard on both you and anyone related to you. However, it does still not excuse lashing out at others because they didn't understand/believe you fully.

Of course, as it should be. Perhaps it would be better for you to try and solve the issues one at a time? First try to get all of the court issues sorted so that you do not have to worry about it, and then work on fixing your reputation on the forum and other places.

The way I look at the situation is that escrow.ms was accused of a serious crime which would warrant a warning to anyone considering to trade with him. Initially, he did not deny committing the crime to the community  (apparently because he was in jail at the time), however he has since denied having anything to do with the alleged crime. The only evidence that I have seen is a couple of news articles from publications that I do not know how reliable they are.

I am a strong believer of it being necessary to prove guilt, which has not been proven, so I removed my rating.

I heard this news when it all happened but looking back i am not convinced that he was a culprit in the case,paper publication in times of india (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Card-frauds-used-bitcoins-to-trade-money/articleshow/50922983.cms). The police busted a group of card frauds and they figured that they were converting the money to bitcoin and escrow.ms aka Pankaj Bhardwaj was a big time bitcoin trader he was selling coins to anyone who pays the deal and no way he could have known that the money he is receiving for the coins are tainted and so i believe that he is falsely accused in the case and for the large part the police in India might not know what bitcoin is all about and with all these circumstantial evidence i do believe that is the case.

Can't belive people is treating this guy as a scam artist, I started reading about escrow.ms  last month, I don't think he's a scammer he's more likely to be a bussines man involded with shady people, ending up into some kind of trap he's saying this and based on what he has done in the forum why should people not belive him ? Because the police " The most corrupt organization in any country say so ? " c'mon guys.

Probably police & judiciary is unaware of cryptocurrencies.So they are bound to think of bitcoins as something shady.They might have framed him without knowing enough.
Maybe escrow.ms was unaware of the source of that money.Maybe not.
But I don't think he will get his reputation back.Not with this attitude.
Pankaj, you should have paid your taxes :p

This criminal escrow.ms is spamming my topic and insulting me, and moderators dont care.

reference
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1658437.160

he also has many alt accounts here, one of them is HiringYou, creator of scam coin project Elysium

reference
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1777414.0

Is this forum such a joke, that anybody, even arrested criminal from India can do whatever he wants, even with -249 red reputation?

[mod note: edited out prohibited content]

Start a self-moderated thread.

If you can prove someone is their alt account, I'll happily tag them.

I have 9 page old thread, if you can make it self/moderated, It would be great.

Dont want to start new again, because of many good feedbacks from buyers.

I cant do it on my own, so help please, if you can.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1658437.0


As for proving alts, its the only person here that keeps coming after me with same insane actions like spamming, flooding and crashing that thread.

I dont have moderation tools to see its IPs, but 99% its the same person.

Not dead after all: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=76380

I've just received a PM from this user wishing me a "Covid free Happy New Year."

(I can't find the more recent thread otherwise I'd post there instead)

---

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Interestingly, this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2076492.0) of theirs from 2017 has had the OP deleted in the last few minutes and the thread locked.