Bitcoin Forum

As you know I've taken a leave from Bitcoin to focus on my life, and in doing so a lot of facts became clear to me about the last year of involvement in bitcoin. I wanted to share those with you and ask you for some advice as well.

The first thing I want to address is my work in the bitcoin community developing products, services and businesses with others. Being homeschooled and sheltered throughout my childhood, it had never occurred to me that I could truly just be one of the crowd, whether neutral or positive. I have always felt I was fighting against someone, somewhere to break free of something. This is what has given me such tremendous energy throughout my life and allowed me to always feel like I was racing someone to some goal. Throughout the year in bitcoin, I felt I was constantly in a race to create something no one else had created yet. It hadn't occurred to me to participate, ask questions, respect others for their knowledge, or even admit defeat on some topics. Looking back with a clear head, it is obvious I was interested in only three things: attention, get rich quick schemes, and entertaining myself. I may or may not have even suffered from aspergers (although I believe it was probably just social ignorance from working alone my whole life and never really being a part of anything until now).

I feel I have made some very trivial additions to the community, but most of them were "A for effort" types and I ended up with a negative sum. I'm certainly grateful for the experiences I have had though. I was completely unaware (and mostly still am) of any political, economical or philosophical ideas before coming here. I believe my biggest mistake was not taking time to learn the lessons that were right in front of me, and feeding the mentality that anyone who didn't automatically accept what I was doing must have been "wrong" and therefor not important. I've survived entirely on bitcoin for a whole year. I have been a part of some really interesting projects, and I've inspired a whole lot more. That said, I do not currently hold any stake in anything remotely interesting or useful to the bitcoin community as a whole, and that pains me when I look back at all the scattered efforts I mindlessly poured into project after ill-thought project. That is the first thing that has begun to change in my life. I am no longer looking for the hit-and-run get rich quick scheme, I am considering going to college and learning how to be better at the job that I enjoy doing, regardless of the pay involved, and am starting to realize the importance and international political implications of bitcoin.

That brings me to the next thing. My awareness of why bitcoin is so important and why it doesn't need any "clowns" like me. I cannot rightfully walk away from an event where I have caused damage and ignore it for the rest of my life. Nor can I rightfully explain it away or solve it easily. I won't lie, I've popped into reddit almost weekly to see what's been happening in bitcoin, and for once, when I wasn't doing the talking, it become clear why we actually need bitcoin in the first place. It gets a lot of flack for being a criminal currency, an "illegal" black market currency, and frankly I still wholeheartedly believe that SA goons have this community downpat as being one of the wackiest group of tinfoil spergers ever to exist, but that doesn't change the fact that bitcoin itself is amazing. And it hurts that I didn't realize that until after pulling a stunt that caused everyone to think I hate bitcoin and want to hurt it.

That brings me to the final point. I initially intended to teach the community a lesson about trust, I did not expect anyone to really take the bets and thus I did not expect to keep any profits. As the bets grew though, I was tempted with greed and I fell into a trap. I flipped back and forth between playing a prank (as it was intended) and actually trying to solve my financial situation (which was becoming dire). I did truly believe that Pirate was going to pay back and I fell for it. I also believe that I intended to pay anyone I lost when it was around 1000 BTC, but as I flip-flopped on my own reasoning and was enjoying the entertainment/trolling so much, I lost control and couldn't stop myself. The attention was just too entertaining and now I will go down in history as the retard who went full retard on the forums-- but I will not go down in history as the guy who ran away from his responsibilities. During the betting process, I hadn't considered people would actually lose money (I seldom plan ahead) and it hadn't occurred to me until shortly after the bet was over that I had actually cost people money/opportunity in large amounts. This depressed me a lot. I won't lie, I cried exactly once, but not at the lost money (I have never had much respect for money), but in reading the many people whom I never even knew knew I existed say so many things about how they actually liked me before I went insane. That killed.

I could easily disappear and continue working behind the scenes, but I don't think that's what I ever wanted, and it's not what anyone else deserves. I'd like to ask some advice on how to make things right. I'm not coming here to get sympathy, and I expect many people will want to start an argument with me, but I can't let it end like this. I obviously don't have millions of dollars in bitcoins to dish out, and I'm also not the inherently dishonest type to try and look for schemes to buy my own debt back at a reduced price. Basically, I just want to know what my options are. I'd like everyone who I have wronged to personally email me at jindq1@gmail.com and explain their story. I want to personally take care of my situation with that person and do my best to make things right, no matter how long it takes.

I know I said I was "leaving", and in a sense, I have. But 2013 is a year for work and self reflection, and I don't think ignoring people, running from problems and hiding behind trolling suits me anymore.

Please help me help myself, and let me start by making things right with those I have wronged.

M.

Aha you're back! I doubt theymos would remove the tag.

I always say that a reputation is very easy to create but very hard to change.

This could take a long time and you will have to except that people are going to be wary of you for a long time too.

Sure, if he pays up. If not, I'd say that constant reminder is quite appropriate.

Trust comes by foot and leaves by horse.

Why is this guy have a scamer tag?

What bets where you involved in?

Also, with that scammer tag, you're not going to get much sympathy here.

Dude lost a 100000$ US bet and ran claiming victory on a technicality. Also he tried to sell  his underage girlfriend here.

Oh, wow, fuck this guy and his sob story.

I've been very well known in bitcoin as both a  troll and a developer and made a public stunt bet that something wasn't a ponzi that turned out to be a ponzi, but so many people had gotten involved into it that the heat normally intended for the ponzi operator came crashing on to me partially as well. Lots of anger. I was known as someone who was energetic, but I didn't know when to stop and went way too far into an area I had no experience in (finances) and it's something I want to correct. I'm here to try and make things right directly with the individuals whom I have wronged with my bad behavior.

Are you in rehab? I hope this sudden insight comes from rehab.

Is possible that at the end he did a favor to those who "lost" money because of his bet, since I think that the majority was for selling their shares in glbse to meet bet, then shortly after glbse died.

But make it clear that this guy dislike me

Quite the opposite, they were hedging by buying passthrough bonds and also betting. If anything, he influenced them to lose more. That's of course their own fault for trusting him as a longtime community member, but it doesn't make it any less of a scumbag move on his part.

At least give us something Dank to be amused over. Come on, do the Dank for the community.

You're right and now I just realized that is MY CASE >:(

All has been forgotten and forgiven. I don't hold any hostility towards anyone here any longer.


I am in the process of rehabilitating, but not in the sense I think you mean (prison? hospital?), just months of hearing other people's points of view on life and realizing how blind, uneducated and self destructive I've been. As a result, I am finding it harder to argue my significance to myself (read: learning humility), but I posted here tonight to insure that that did not become an excuse for my previous actions.


This is true. My original defensiveness held for a few weeks, but after that I could no longer deny to myself that I had caused real damage. The only question then was how to approach resolution. I knew I couldn't do that without changing my attitude and some of my personality in the process, so I began to read. In reading, I have come to understand a bit more about why bitcoin is useful, not just as a tool, but as a political wedge for the future. I have never believed the governments are inherently wrong, evil and against us, but the more I see corruption and deceit around me, and the more I stumble myself, the more I realize that man himself is fallible and the future of mankind should be one that relies on science, not emotions. Bitcoin, even if it is not perfect, is a great example of a proof of concept to use science to handle financial transactions. It doesn't fit currently popular ideals for economics, and it may never at that, but I would never be able to live with myself if I let a movement like bitcoin suffer because I was too embarrassed of my own mistakes. I don't want to be someone everyone depends on, I make mistakes. I want to be useful though, and I can't do that if I'm not learning and fixing my mistakes.

You own me a magazine Matthew ! Are you going to the Oprah show too ? ;D

I hope you try to correct your actions and that you learn with the big mistake you did.

You should contact all of the people you owe money and renegotiate your debt with them. A lot of people would probably be willing to forgive your debt entirely or take only a small percentage.

I would just like to acknowledge to MNW that I read this and also that I somehow feel sorry for you that you got involved in the internet relay chats over in #btcst so many moons ago. I never participated in any particular betting or forum conversations on this matter, but I'm very aware of it.

Let me summarize a very critical moment when "steamboat" a person or individual who was authenticated to IRC nickserv as pirateat40 said to MNW:



I forget the particulars on the dates but it happened like this and I witnessed the moment MNW could have walked away and blamed this on someone else easily and he did not, he accepted his fate at that very moment in time. This was at least a week before he was scammer-tagged.

I don't really condone any of it or have any association with Matthew, I just thought I'd share.

I forget if you owe me money or not, do you?

This seems to be more about the bolded part of your statement more than anything else.  It's fine if you don't want to be an invisible player who works behind the scenes, but that's about your own wants and I don't think you should try to dress it up in terms of what the community "deserves". 

Self reflection, self insight, and  a willingness to change is a good starting point, some people never get there.

The intended meaning was that no one deserves to have their problems ignored by the person who caused them, and that the proper response isn't to simply change identities/go underground, rinse and repeat, but rather to stay above ground, find resolution, and then decide what to do with oneself once all has been handled.

It is good that you acknowledge your mistakes and stop running away but it will be a long process until you regain the respect of the community. That said, I definitely think that you can still contribute in a positive way and I'm the last to deny somebody another chance.

For what it's worth: welcome back!

Unless you pay your debts, you are not welcome here.

You are a lying, scamming sack of shit and you make me sick.

Fuck off and don't come back.

Well, I've e-mailed you.

Trying to put things right is better than running away.

welcome back  :)

I guess from one troll to another  - welcome back  will I don't know about coming back but ya ....  :o

Matthew, I had a pretty good sense of what you were trying to achieve with your last "wager", but I also anticipated the community's reaction to it. I'm glad to see you're trying to make things right and I think theymos made a good suggestion:


Personally, your scammer tag wouldn't influence me at all in any possible future business you and I might have, but having it removed would at least eliminate the need to explain it every time you posted in a new thread.

Ok I think Matthew should just focus on new business and try to win us over that way. I want to see what else he can do, he obvious has some good visions. Everyone deserves another chance if they really want it, and he sounds it.

He definitely deserves another chance as long as he pays people off.


What he was trying to achieve was make a great deal of money at no risk to himself.

Your only way of getting things right is by your words and deeds, not with money. Stick around, talk, help out, and show people you've changed (or that you haven't). I don't think "buying" your reputation back is right.

I just want to state that ANYONE who receives money from Matthew from this, I will consider as either an idiot, or a scumbag. An idiot, because you put your money into something as stupid as Pirate or this bet without taking responsibility for your own stupid financial decisions
Or a scumbag because you could easily claim that you made such a bet without proof, and are just trying to steal money from this naive fool

I hear your sentiments, but one of the lessons I learned in all of this is that this community is one obsessed with money (no kidding!) and that when you make a mistake financially, you have to rectify it financially. Some people might take a few bitcoins from me just to give them right back as a test of my intentions. Some might use the opportunity to make a quick buck, whom would otherwise not have paid at all. That's not for me to discern at the moment though, my task at hand is just making sure that I make amends so that I can continue living in a world where actions have consequences. It's an issue of mental health if nothing else. I have to stand up for myself when I am being abused, but also against myself when I have abused others.

How much if your financial situation worth to you, compared to your reputation on some forum? I.e. will paying back some people make your real life more difficult for you? I'm not sure that those who would receive money from you would really NEED it.

Don't you still have the list of everyone you made the bet with?

I do, but not everyone had contact information (you realize some people were making the bet with intentions to scam me), hence the thread. I am beginning to talk to people about what I can do to make things right.

Don't worry he won't pay anyone back thus you won't have to poutrage. 

I'll just say that I consider the issue resolved between Matthew and I, but if he does offer monetary retribution to some, he should offer the same retribution to all at the same percentage.

I'm not sure what could be done, I'm still paying off the debt I incurred because of pirate and I made the bet so I could break even...

As SgtSpike said,
And anything is better than nothing considering I'm still over 3k BTC down

In light of this new evidence I'd like to retract a statement I made several months ago.

The statement in question was roughly akin to the following:
"Well, actually, Rassah seems to be one of the more level headed and non-crazy-stupid guys on BTCTalk (aside from the dog penis table thing of course)"

I'm forced to admit I was deeply and utterly wrong and I apologize to anyone who was influenced by this statement to take disadvantageous business decisions.

too soon...


Most people have not forgotten, I tried to tell you how this would end..

Hope your doing alright otherwise ya goof!

I wished that I've tried to discourage you from the bet last time we talked. We were both blinded by Pirate.  :'(
Christmas here was a lil' bit colder without your jokes and posts.

Welcome back, Matthew. Hope you're doing well in Korea!

Why did I get a "bitcointalk personal message notification" from matthew sent to an email-address not registered here, and no pm in my inbox?
Matthew, send that PM again if it was you, otherwise I will treat it as spam.

In light of reviewing greyhawk's prior posts, and realizing that my statement reflects greyhawk's sentiments almost exactly (I.e. that "we/bitcoiners are all idiots and scammers, and deserve what we get"), I'm forced to apologize for having opinions similar to those of his and the rest of the goons, and retract my statement.

Good to see nothing's changed since I left.

Putting the team together for Bitcoin Magazine was a notable accomplishment. The "bet fiasco" was a silly and overblown reaction by people that believe gambling is an honorable enterprise run only by legitimate enterprises free from seedy sorts. Your entrepreneurial spirit is a little overzealous, but we all fake it in the beginning until we develop our skill sets.

Ignore the scammer tag and add a link to your cv with a very brief apology and explanation for the tag. Find your bliss and move on. Develop your talents and steer clear of the agenda biased pundits. There is a long way to go and much to be done. Bitcoin needs passionate and creative players.

You never left, you was always there under the bridge listening to our steps as we walked over the bridge. Very sad indeed, even sadder is the fact that you come back here asking for help and forgiveness, and you need this to move on with your life. This forum holds the key to your future happiness? Dude, I am embarrassed for you.


As the Oldest Bitcoin Miner in the world, I declare that from now on, MNW is considered bit-trash. Garbage.

Apologize to me for all the lies you have said about me and my husband and I might reconsider my declaration.

In the meantime, put on your horse mask and go jump around a pile of trash. Basura.

Maria.

Note to new users: MNW is the worst scum this for has seen right after Zhoutong. DO NOT DEAL AT ALL WITH THIS GARBAGE.  If I ever see you in person I will spit you in your face. Do us all a favor and stay under the bridge. Your sockpuppet accounts are starting to stink.

I fell like I just wasted valuable time on this, but I want to make sure the newcomers know who is who here.

The irony.

Indeed.

See, this is why we can't have nice things.

Note to  new users : Maria is more reviled and less trusted around here than Matthew.

Well, sometimes when you are all the way at the bottom, the only way up is to stand  on top of those who are down there with you...

Welcome back, Matt

I tend to agree with you...

i think this is a classic case of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
so MNW had a manic episode, which lead him to inadvertently scam forum members... no one lost any money from the bet directly....
very little harm actually took place, and yet everyone went ape shit on this mentally unstable young man.

bra - fucking - vo

I actually do owe many people apologies for the rude behavior I had over the past year, not just you. Looking back I see I was out of control. I am no longer here to judge anyone.

I'm sorry for your losses Leo, I know you tried to bring a service to the community and I am aware that you and your wife have had difficulties in doing so, that you have shared similar failures as I have in the very difficult world of start-ups. I had a talk with Charlie Shrem of BitInstant about you a while back, and I remember him speaking fondly of you. I think the main issue, as I've come to learn, is that people, myself included, like to assume that what other people do is who they are and not just what they do. I see now the obvious market manipulation attempts, the SEO assassination attempts, and faux interest all around me that perpetuates the bitcoin 'community'. I see this forum is being used against people just as much as it is for people. The difficult part is that I also saw myself as being a part of that mess. I went too far though. I'm just sorry I didn't have the sense to realize it until I had already disappointed so many.

The point of this thread was to spark some minor discussion into what could be done about my past inappropriate behavior. You have come to add to the discussion and I thank you for that. I wish you the best of luck on future endeavors.

First Lance and now this.  Too much ...head exploding.

You are a scammer, the only thing that can be done at this point is to pay your debts to clear your name. ~1 million dollar is a lot of money, but it's not impossible to gain that kind of money within a few years. Stop wasting your time in forums, think of some good business, make a killing, pay everyone 100% of what owed. Apology accepted. Good luck.

or, for half a million dollars, I will make you a new account with full posting privileges. deal?

That's not making things right.
"I could easily disappear and continue working behind the scenes, but I don't think that's what I ever wanted, and it's not what anyone else deserves. I'd like to ask some advice on how to make things right."

plea temporary insanity and all will be forgiven  :D

no but seriously you show all the signs of a manic bipolar.
you appeared to have lots of energy even if you didn't sleep proper for weeks or months...
you were 110% sure you were right and everyone else was wrong ( for no good reason )
I'm sure you felt ontop of the world ( b4 you finally crashed )
and after hearing that interview with you and some dude talking about your bet ( can't find it anymore ) I'm sure you were on a mania high.

anyway that's my theory...

I don't want to make this thread into a speculation thread of my mental health, but I would say that I spread myself too thin, was unrealistic in my expectations and valuation of myself (delusions of grandeur perhaps) and that this experience was inevitable as I was due for a humbling, unfortunate that it was such a public one. I needed to be knocked down a notch, and I still need some time to get back on my feet, but I have not forgotten the experiences of the past year, making a show about bitcoin, a magazine about bitcoin, a service to sell bitcoins through SMS, an attempt at a device to use bitcoins. Looking back I am just disappointed in myself at how much I did, but how little actually got done. I'll apply myself to this first, then I'll start planning ahead more for doing something people can actually use.

There's always the next day. One day, this will just be a faint memory.

Make a new account Matthew, this community is unforgiving.

Bravo for coming back and taking your licks like a man.

I would recommend:

1. Startup your entrepreneurial spirit again. Build something that bitcoin needs - you are a smart kid and you will make something of yourself. You cannot talk your way out of this one, you will need to regain your rep through deeds, not words. Channel your energy into something amazing for the community.
2. Keep your scammer tag, dont make a new account. Wear it, so everytime you post you remember how bad things can go wrong if you lose sight of your humility.
3. Become conscious of your urge to troll (when it happens), watch it and let it pass. Do not act on it or on others who attempt to troll you (there are more than a few in this thread).

Best of luck to you

People:

Forgive, but do not forget. The end.


If you want to discuss what he did in the past, move it to the other mega thread.

never forget what happened, and recognize that the entrepreneurial blood in your veins is your gr8est strength and weakness. If you let the need to create / innovate interfere with your basic needs, sleep and relaxation, you will just lose control again. your defiantly not "normal", normal people don't drive themselves crazy working too hard on something they love... keep this in mind.

In talking with some of the people I bet with, I learned of his unfortunate circumstances (which I hope were not due to mining rigs). We all think of this community like a small town, but unlike a small town, we can't directly see what is going on with our neighbor unless that neighbor tells us. I would like to help share the story of one of those neighbors.

http://bitcoinbasics.wordpress.com/tag/crosby/
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/7-people-homeless-after-vanier-blaze-1.1108019

wont his home insurance cover it?

Lucky, he gets to blame his mistakes on a boogieman. I have to own up to mine.

This.

Why do you even care if anyone trusts you? I would prefer to not have to be trusted. Admiration and gratitude is enough for me.  ;)

Seriously, Bitcoin offers trustless and transparent fiancial transactions. Use this to model your next venture, and set an example that even Jesus H Christ could not beat.

Just disappear if you do not have the ability to pay you debt (even if you have the intention to do so). Some Private-victims did incur extra loss due to your bet, and some may be still struggling to pay their debt in real life. You are bringing false hope to these people and going to hurt them once again. (Just imagine if private comes back and ask for "help" like you.....)

Don't you have a google doc of the original bets?

Did you type that out on an iPhone?  ;D

Typo? fixed  :)

Pretty easy trap for you to get out of, wasn't it? 

If you won, "pay up sucker."

If you lost, "ha ha it was just a joke."

Funny how honest people never end up in such a "trap."

What exactly is an "honest person"? I don't believe I've ever met one. I do believe I had a moment where my responsibilities, amount of trust in me from others, and influence were inproportionate to my experience, professionalism, and maturity, and I did in fact fall for the temptation that I shouldn't have because it was made very easy (see first part of this sentence for reasoning). What I would like to do is no longer put myself in a position where something like that can happen so easily, and just work in areas that don't surround me with money and people throwing it at me hand over fist. What I'd also like to do is not focus on money in my own life as well, and work for the benefit of creating and not just for profits. That was my biggest regret in 2013 and I don't want to let that happen again. I've considered working for free but bills do need to be paid so I think the best thing for me to do is continue working on adjusting my attitude, growing up and reading more than talking. Thank you for contributing your opinions to the topic though, that's why it's here.

This kind of cynicism is stereotypical. Honest people are hard to come by and if you don't have the highest respect for them and feel attracted to them, you won't see them around you.


So in essence, if I make it too easy for you to scam me, it's my fault (or at least reduces yours). And you are surprised that you don't see honest people surrounding you? Most peculiar indeed.

Exactly what you said. If you make it too easy for me to scam you, it's my fault, which exactly what I've been apologizing for and exactly what I want to change. Thank you for helping me make that clearer, I hope to adjust my personality and attitude accordingly and on a completely different topic, if you'd like to discuss what makes someone honest and get to the bottom of what I meant by my previous comment, I would be happy to engage you. Please start a thread.

So the only thing he did wrong, was running a silly bet?

HOW STUPID TO TAKE THIS BET SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE.... Did someone get hurt (besides mentally?); Did someone loose Money or BTC?
No?

If thats the only thing he did.... then remove the tag because he's not a scammer....



 

The argument I have received numerous times is that since people trusted the bet, they were inclined to make other financial decisions based on said trust. This is something I hadn't really thought about beforehand to much extend and I was surprised, scared and saddened when the first wave of claims of lost funds do to hedging etc occurred. Some people actually went one step further and purchased debt, losing out even moreso. This unfortunately for all parties is unverifiable and admittedly something I will never be able to resolve completely. I am here first and foremost to simply resolve the bet itself. If I were to pay the bet out, it would be for the bet only, not amounts people come up with aside from that. That said, I do acknowledge that I have made many people uncomfortable as a result of the bet and I am truly grief stricken.

Taking a $1,000,000 bet on the internet seriously is a bit like taking Mitt Romney's $10,000 bet seriously, either way you're all going to end up looking like pillocks, it's a bit like taking a troll seriously, you can't go back and say "WE THOUGHT YOU WERE SERIOUS BURN IT! BURN IT!" and come out of that looking intelligent when you were just as stupid as the person who said it, I've seen it happen though lol. I don't know what happened precisely but if he did owe people money, then he should pay it back, that's a given and completely unrelated to such a stupid sounding bet, but if he didn't owe any money at all, then you guys are screaming drama and I'd be wary about even selling Manga to you for 0.5 BTC like I plan to let alone anything pricey like hand made Jewellery because this is actually looking a bit like the same situation that johnniewalker had with people trying to profit from internet drama and blackmail him into paying up without any proof.

I'm hoping this is just one or two scam artists I have to be worried about that have snuck into the community and won't be back, not what Bitcoin will be made up of in the entire future.

You are not responsible for other peoples decisions..... If i invest in something i'll think about that FIRST.... If i do the ammount i "bet" is onsidered gone for good.
The pirate thing seemed good to be true so at first i fell for it.  I did have a share or two in PPT's (TYGRR.. something; a ppt from GOAT) but i got out early.

As i recall, i saw your bet and the first thing that came to mind was "not to take it serious"! How and why should someone bet that much? Especially with all that BS about pirate :/ How the hell could someone (your bet partners) take something like that serious?
Greed .... AGAIN (as we see in the religious ASIC WAR  today).


On the other hand you could and should have made it clear that this bet wasn't serious! Somewhere between the lines .... Or if you (or others) noticed that it git outa hand!
 

The hilarious thing is if you look at the numbers they're spouting for the ASIC it isn't actually that impressive, like with anything Bitcoin mining, I think the objective is entirely to acquire Bitcoins, it isn't to profit from them like with real life mining, in fact, a pick axe and some Geology lessons would probably serve all these guys better in the long run than paying for ASIC's.

Alas, this has been mentioned before and I lean in favor of the opposing argument, that it is impossible to tell with a bet in the amount I originally set limits for. Some people did believe I had 10,000 BTC, and I made no effort to discourage them from that. Looking back it's like watching a completely different person; I have no idea what the hell was wrong with me and it still embarrasses me how inappropriately I behaved. It has caused a lot of reflection and I have found that an adjustment in my attitude and personality is the only logical next step to functioning in society.

true so true but no one will listen :/
 As if a "add a certain ASIC here" will ever pay for itself or make you rich!

Thats your flaw and thats what you should be punished for.... not loosing a bet! Work on that!

Try to earn back the trust you once had. Don't expect it to be easy :)

BR0KK: Imagine for a moment that you and another guy is playing texas holdem heads up tournament. You both have agreed to put $10 000 in the pot meaning the winner will receive $20 000 and loser $0. You win the game, then the other party says "haha I was just joking man! don't take it so seriously."... would you at this point still hold the opinion that since you didn't lose anything you did not get scammed?

Well, this is exactly what has happended here. The poker player who ripped everyone off is back and is trying to settle things. We'll see how that goes.

No.

You eagerly advertised the bet, both here, and on #btcst, as a way for BTCST victims to hedge against Pirate default.

---

Edit:

That's something i'll never do :)

Lets assume i do this:

Real game:
1. Money on the table then we play!
2. No Money; no game!
3. Look at the guy offering the bet .... you'll see if he's capable of 20K bets!
4. Get some witness to ensure the bet (Someone you trust)
5. Maybe write something down with each party agreeing to pay up?
6. and so forth....


Stupid internet bet with troll kids:
0. Think first!
1. Don't take em serious!
2. Dont cry about a loss that you didn't have!

OHHHH poor victims of hedge (FUCKING HIGH RISK.... It's not like you couldn't see that there is something wrong with the BET he put up against Pirate?)  Bets....

[/quote]

It is typical of a sociopath to deny that others possess good traits they themselves lack.  I suppose it makes them feel better about themselves.

My apologies darkmule, I'm here to make amends for the bad behavior I've had. If you see that behavior cropping up again, please do let me know. If you are sincerely worried about my mental health or being a sociopath, I welcome a discussion on it on a new thread. I imagine there are many traits of many things that many people have, but that's why real licensed and learned doctors exist to give those assessments. Thank you for your interesting perspective though, this thread is for discussion afterall.

So do I understand this right, if I am considered a "troll kid" (despite my identity and location being wildely known) I can promise people whatever I want on the internet and make any kind of bets and still not be a scammer when I default on all my promises?

Nice, remind me to never do any business with you.

Nope .... where did i write that? Highlight that please.... You made a silly example of a poker game and i debunked it... How on earth would one play like this?

My advise: Just don't bet with them, and don't start crying if you lost nothing:)

Let me quote what you wrote previously today in this topic:

Matthew,

If you ACTUALLY want to make things right, then you should declare personal bankruptcy and let the court divide whatever assets you have among your creditors. Yes, you're still walking out on your obligations by declaring bankruptcy, but it is the societally acceptable way to discharge unpayable debt. As long as you're walking around with assets without filing for bankruptcy, you have not truly taken responsibility for your actions.

Personally, I side with those who believe you're a sociopath, and I have my doubts whether you truly want to take responsibility, rather than just having people think you're a good guy again by making some weepy apologetic posts. Hope you'll prove me wrong, though.

I doubt that any legal system would regard Matthew's bet as provable in bankruptcy given that the bet may well have been illegal in and of itself in Matthew's jurisdiction.  Unless the legal issues regarding the sale of Bitcoin Magazine have now been resolved, bankruptcy on Matthew's part could also make that more complicated. 

There's literally no reason at all to believe that Matthew has enough assets that any creditors would receive a payment if he declared bankruptcy.  That doesn't mean that he shouldn't, but people need to realise it would likely be a symbolic act.

I have no intention of walking out on my obligations and have already contacted all parties from the bet. I'm just waiting on responses from some of them before I can do much else.


This is correct. I am a permanent resident of South Korea and no contract is lawful here without A) paper contract with at least a duplicate in Korean language (English alone is thrown out in court), B) fingerprints on said contract (new law passed recently). That said, the laws regarding internet activity are reminiscent of Singapore's laws that apply to Paypal; they can do whatever they want without so much as a fine, so long as none of their customers are from Singapore.


If I happen to prove you wrong, I guess that's a plus, but I'm not on a crusade to prove anything to anyone. I'm just here to make amends to the individuals I broke my promise with and that process began days ago.

Welcome back, Matthew.

You fucked up big time and you seem to regret it. That's a good thing.

You even want to make good on your "obligations". However, I'm not sure what these are:

I never took your bet seriously myself (otherwise I would've bet at some point when I was sure pirate would run and your bet miraculously was still open). First I was of the impression you really thought pirate would pay, but I was also pretty sure you wouldn't have 10 kBTC, let alone 80 kBTC.

I'm guessing most of the people who "took" your bet had similar thoughts (that the bet was a joke and/or you had gone berserker insane and wouldn't pay either way). Whoever seriously counted on you paying up and thought they had thereby effectively "hedged" their pirate loss was dilusional.

We can put the people that took your bet into 2 categories:

• d) delusional: those who took you seriously and thought they could get out of their pirate fuckup this way
• c) clowns or profiteer: those who took your bet for fun and never planned to pay in case they lost

group c) you really owe nothing and I'm not sure about group d): they had made the initial mistake of investing in pirate and had only themselves to blame for that. This was becoming clearer to them every day. Then you seemingly came to the rescue (like a fata morgana of water in the desert) and they thought themselves saved. Now they blame the fata morgana for disappearing? I'm not sure this works. (I know this analogy is wrong.. a hyperbole)

As for the damage you inflicted: your bet might've enabled pirate to keep things going a little longer (I don't know) and some more money was sent his way than would've been otherwise. It's hard to do this, but if I had to put a number, I would say your "obligations" are around 1% of the total bet amount.

As for "distributing" possible compensation: I think you can only do it evenly by bet amount since you don't know who belongs to which group and assessing the harm you did individually is highly error-prone and will likely wear you out.

I'm just thinking out loud here and might change my mind upon discussion, but that's the way I see things currently.

Any ideas how high Matthews obligations really are?

Thank you for the kind words and concern, I have already contacted each better and I'm in the process of settling. It will take a little bit of time but I am dedicated to this first and foremost until the matter is resolved. Since many of the people betting were trolls trying to scam me I cannot make a group settlement because not all of the group will participate (sock puppet accounts do not respond). I can only discuss a solution with people who actually respond.

I wish you best of luck to get this through quickly so you can move on. I also hope everyone ends up with a little less grief and a lighter heart.

Whats you definition of a scamer?

 

Yeah. I was actually kind of disappointed when KeyserSoze deleted his original accusation against Matthew the first time he was tagged as a scammer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28004.0), back when he was still going by the name BitMole. (He actually wanted the entire thread there deleted.)

So, for those people who do get your money from Matthew, will that payout actually make you think he's trustworthy? I guess I'm wondering if there are people who would actually think that someone who stiffed them on a bet, coming back in the way Matthew is, and paying some of the money they owed, should be completely forgiven and thought of as trustworthy. Personally, no amount of money will change how I feel about Matthew or how much I trust or don't trust him. So, really, I'm wondering what it is that Matthew thinks he is buying with all this.

Honestly, I'm just trying to make things right by my own standards. I cannot possibly tell you what other people's standards might be. One person might think by their religious law that I should be hung for embarrassing them. Another person might think simply telling me not to do it again would be sufficient. I'm not doing this for other people, I'm doing it for myself. I have always thought that when I was on my death bed, I'd be happy because I literally have done everything I've always wanted. Recently I realized that that isn't true unless I make amends for this. I don't expect people to suddenly like me after 13 months of trolling because I handed them some bitcoins, or moreso, the people who aren't even involved in that bet who are just reading this thread and eating popcorn. I'm not interested in a popularity contest anymore. I just want to make things right and know that I did what was right. I get trolled a lot but it only bothers me when it's the truth.

Matthew, it's never too late to make things right until you're dead.

First and most important, you're never going to be able to repair the damage you have done and make the situation exactly as before. Take your time to accept this and keep that as a lesson.

Second, you're already doing it, but asking the people you've hurt what you can humanly do in your current situation to patch things up is a great start. As for the rest, well, you've destroyed value in this community. If you can find a way to bring new value in this community, you're welcome to do so.

Consider that some people have black-listed you, let them be. Some people in this world believe in death penalty, so for them, rehabilitation doesn't even exist in their mind. You can't do anything about that, learn to deal with it. Others (like me), believe in controlled rehabilitation. Keep that scammer tag and the info about your bet available. Hiding that information is not going to help you. As long as you're doing that and you're transparent, some (not all) people will still give you a chance.

You have a big hill of credibility to climb back, but I think you can do it. jcpham posted about the "steamship wanting to buy your bet debt couple of pages ago" and I was also there that night. You had the easy way out to ran away from this mess, but you went forward with your balls of steels. You also have the guts of coming back here and asking for help. Asking for help is pretty hard when the ego is in the way. I respect that, and I'm pretty sure you'll go through it.

First, welcome back, friend. Sorry for not supplying input earlier, but I wasn't sure of what to write--until now.

At the risk of being alienated, I'm for having your scarlet X's removed, offering up the following as my argument.


If the above is true, for I believe that's why the tag was implemented in the first place, then how is that different than promising shipment on a certain date, but was pushed back a couple three times? Before I continue, please understand that this is no way a diss toward BFL, let alone suggesting they, too, deserve a scammer tag, which is nonsense. But the crux of the matter is that many a people pre-ordered product with the understanding that revenue will be generated by a certain date or, at the very least, a modest rescheduled one. If my calculations are correct, not one satoshi of the over a million dollars worth of bitcoins that were expected to be mined to date has yet to be produced.

That said, the above quote could be written the following way.


Bottom line, what's good for Team Monach is more than good enough for an ex-troll.

Q.E.D.

I'm not too into adding stipulations, but if I were inclined to do such, I would only suggest that trolling be kept to a bare minimum, and do everything in your power to add to the Bitcoin community utilizing the tremendous skills you possess, with somehow gleaning something to provide for your family.

The only other suggestion I have is that the tag will remain until the first anniversary of when it was implemented, during which time Matthew will be adding to the Bitcoin community then, upon seeing that such actions transpired, admin, namely theymos, would remove said tag.

Please accept my apologies to those who have a distaste for Matthew, as well as those who expect to be paid because of the bit. I have no qualms with yous, and hopefully this post doesn't change the way you feel about me unless, of course, I'm on your ignore list and you now have a desire to reverse that decision.  ::)

~Bruno K~

Sent both yourself and Bruno a PM - hopefully 2013 will be a fresh new start!

A scammer is someone who uses deception/trickery/fraud in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

That surely narrowed it down. Have you ever seen the following house in Plano, Illinois, just down the road from where I live?

http://specials-images.forbes.com/imageserve/07plg4OgVzgC7/0x600.jpg?fit=scale&background=000000

Matthew,

You made a silly bet out of ignorance and a horrible understanding of mathematics. Greater stupidity made you extend the bet beyond your means of payment. Even more stupidity made others take financial risks they could ill afford on the good faith and credit of some guy they don't know who sucks at math.

A sincere apology is a appropriate...but, there are plenty of people who took part in making your silly unbelievable bet go way overboard. Heck, half of us on here were part of the pirate scam...taking money from hopeful "investors" under the false pretenses of thinking this pirate guy found a way to make Ponzi level returns without running a ponzi. Even Theymos proudly took pirate money.

I'm not saying what you did was right. It wasn't. But don't forget many people didn't _want_ to believe they were scammed by a guy named pirate (that sounds so silly!) and others didn't _want_ your bet to be fake...At some point the grown ups need to step in and tell the children to grow up.

I wouldn't try too hard to make amends. I mean, heck, you could have outright stolen coins and faced no consequence (not that that would make it right).

Did Trendon ever go to prison? Get arrested? Get more than some phone calls? Someone please tell me the identified thief was prosecuted!

For the record, I vote to keep the scammer tag. Only because Matthew was bad enough at math to believe that he might actually have stood to gain and he had no intention of losing...it was a statistical scam.

Did he gain something out of his bet.... I mean did he take money from bet partners?
As I recall he didn't (or am I wrong here?)

If he didn't then he's just a liar.

Heck, even BLF doesn't have a tag .... May I ask the board leaders why?
They did everything what qualifies them, but they keep on dooing their Bullshit....

It's called a failed scam. Just because a scammer doesn't succeed doesn't make him less of a scammer.

Someone had already put it quite eloquently; it is the equivalent to having broken someone's windows. I did not benefit from it, but neither did the person whose windows I may have broken. Just added to the chaos and now I am paying for the broken windows and trying to put them in myself. Some people are telling me that they already replaced them and they'd rather have me rake the leaves in their yard. Some people are telling me that they want the full price of the window. Still others are telling me that the house they were living in was in a fire and doesn't need the windows replaced any more. I can hold the label of "scammer" for a lack of a better title, but scammers don't pay people back and work to change their lives.

You need a 'Rehab' title here.  :D

I didn't get paid back.

Well, since no one else seems to have posted up an address, I'll see how this goes.

1FQhNej4boCkMfDFZykBDf9YbiKWK4aVfK

My bet was 100BTC in the first day of the bet, later upped to 500BTC after you extended past the 10,000 limit.

I would settle for 1% of the total bet, or BTC5 to the address above. If that works, go ahead and I'll consider this all resolved.

Did you pay him something?  ??? ::)

I've messaged you, not sure if you have me on ignore or didn't get my message. Many people who have posted in this thread have already been messaged and not responded yet. It has prompted the creation of this thread. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=138005)

Sure, I'll reply to the PM.

When people make bets, unless they use escrow, no party actually pays the other part before the bet has ended.

When you said "paid back," the "back" implies that you paid him something, and are waiting for him to return the money, aka pay you back. If you haven't paid him anything, and he hasn't honored his bet, neither of you are better or worse off than you were before.

lol. I'm all for it. Theymos?

No it doesn't. He has a loan to me and I am waiting for him to pay back the loan. I am worse off if he doesn't pay me too, opportunity costs.

That sounds like a separate issue from the bet that got him labeled as a scammer...

I do not remember ever borrowing any money from you. If you are considering the bet as being a loan, you'd be mistaken. That does not however change my mind about what the right thing to do in this situation is and I will continue to work towards it.

When you gamble with money you don't have you are borrowing money. It's called gambling debt, and it can grow despite you never actually being handed over money, it's an obligation to pay, debt, or as I thought was an appropriate word "loan".  Isn't borrowing money and loaning money basically the same thing?

So if you get a parking ticket and don't pay it, does the court say that they gave you a loan for the ticket amount?

That's different, as it's not a voluntary choice. Borrowing money to gamble is a choice and requires someone willing to take the risk that you will pay back the loan. But as I said in PM, maybe loan is not the right word to use. Would it be correct to call it just "debt" maybe?

Yea, it's unactionable debt (i.e. debt that can't be claimed in a court of law), so it's basically a gentleman's agreement, but I wasn't acting like a gentleman. That's the best way to describe it.

Deep breaths Matthew.  You seem to be losing your humility and becoming pedantic and argumentative already, which kind of undermines your stated purpose for starting the thread.

So hes in "dept" to you now for what exactly?

Ohhhh there i spotted another "becoin"...

let the betting begin
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1167

Money is imaginary. Debt is imaginary. Start living in reality.

MNW,

You owe me 1500 BTC under the username bitbotbut on your list.

I posted a screenshot of your google docs spreadsheet from back in August.

Make me an offer on how to settle this debt.

And no, I'm not going to take a tiny portion of the debt as payment.

Be reasonable given that you would have held everyone else who made bets against you to their bet had you won.

I posted in the other thread and PMed you.

Awaiting your response.

You don't know me, and I was never involved in any of this, but for what it's worth, here's some (blunt, but not malicious) advice:

1) After getting in touch with those you owe, take another vacation from the forums. Not that I expected you to grovel, but some of your statements, and the tone behind them, suggest you're still not fully realizing the gravity of all this (and no, I'm not talking about others incurring other financial losses based on your welshing of the bet.)

2) Please stop linking to anything with a donation address, regardless of the reason. Coming back into this situation claiming to have learned your lesson, only to then do something so inappropriate further reinforces #1.

3) Attempt to settle, but if anyone you owe insists you pay the full amount, then you need to accept that that is what you owe that person. Whether you choose to dismiss them or to spend years paying them back is entirely your choice, but to not accept that you owe what you owe would put a lie to your claim: "I want to personally take care of my situation with that person and do my best to make things right, no matter how long it takes."

4) I'd recommend you never, not once, request your scammer tag be removed, and that you do your best to not get involved with debating the merits of having it be removed.

5) Borrow what you can and start buying some bitcoins NOW. I'm sure you've seen the price movements, and can see the general trend. You already know there will be some (whether you owe them 1 BTC or 1000 BTC) who will insist you pay them in full. If you really are intending to make it right to any significant degree, such action would be real evidence of that, and will allow you to make payments more easily further down the road.

6) Finally, if you really are in this for the long haul, you might find you'll be more successful if you make whatever regular payments you agree to make on your debts, but aim to fully pay them off in order from smallest debt to largest. I didn't come up with the methodology, but it's incredibly sound financial advice.

However you choose to handle this, I sincerely hope it all works out in the end.

Good luck.

Well, for a start no-one's been able to prove that BFL actually lied when they said they were going to ship on that date, whereas Matthew very helpfully demonstrated in theatrical fashion that he never actually intended to do what he promised, having carefully built up anticipation for his announcement to make sure as many people as possible were watching. Also, Matthew actually advertised his bet as a way for people to "hedge their Pirate exposure". Finally, Matthew made a point of insisting that anyone who didn't pay up would get a scammer tag. Basically, he did everything he possibly could to make sure he got tagged as a scammer.

I don't believe Matthew had malicious intent to defraud anybody when he started his "bet". Probably he just became is a victim of himself. It was stupid to do what he did, and probably it caused unintended (and unprovable) harm to some forum users.

I'd like to ask people (who identify themselves as victims of fraud) to take away their greed and offence and to recognize the fact that probably he just won't be able to pay in full. You wouldn't want him to sell his organs, would you?

I propose the following solution for this situation:

1. Victims claim a fraction of real losses, that their consciousness consider proportional to his guilt (he shouldn't pay for others' greed and stupidity). Matthew creates a list of payment recipients (weighted by their claimed amounts) and publishes it.

2. Time to time Matthew sends any amount to some trusted Treasurer's address thus proving his intents to pay off. Treasurer redistributes money among victims with respect to their weights in the list.

3. Community monitors Treasurer's address and sees if Matthew makes regular payments and how large those payments are.

Who knows, maybe sooner or later Matthew will pay for his sins. I think he deserves a chance to prove public his intents and to rehabilitate himself.

I just want to remind everyone that this is an internet forum, one with very little relevance to the real world.

The acronym is back! Let's celebrate his second coming!

Can we make him do silly things for Bitcoin until his slate is clean? I miss the stapler guy...

The internet is the real world, no?

Not only did you steal my quote, you reworded it.


You're in deep shit now, buddy!

Lol! In other words, "that's exactly what I said...but different." He he :)

Lol.

Has anyone involved in this bet actually been paid anything?  So far I've yet to see someone actually say so.

I'm guessing he won't pay everyone. I'll bet 100 million billion trillion Bitcoins. Any takers?

Bitcoiners, Not sure if you have me on ignore or not but I couldn't find a response to my message. If you or anyone else who had might have had me on ignore sees this, please respond to my message. Thank you.

which message?

Quoted you so all but the 18 who've ignored me will be able to see it.

I'm sorry, I just realized that was confusing. When I said "bitcoiners", I meant the user "bitcoiners", not every bitcoiner in general. We have since exchanged messages.

Amazingly, Matthew paid me back.

I could really do with him paying me back.

For an update on who has been paid and whom hasn't (everyone loves deadbeat drama!), go ahead and scootch on over to here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140654

It's kept up to date by Theymos and JohntheDong. If someone is paid, it shows up there. If they're about to be paid, they'll get a PM. If they're not about to be paid, I'll probably be the one getting the PM, to which a canned response will be given because PMs don't change financial situations!  ;)

How is the list ordered? How do you decide who gets paid next?

Still didn't make it on the list...
Although Matthew offered me a sum which he then didn't pay...

That list isn't ordered in any particular way other than "paid" and "not paid". The real list is organized by settlement value. The people who demanded larger settlements wait longer (and will surely need to renegotiate if the price of coins continues to rise every bloody week).


There are 18 people ahead of you. Agreeing on a settlement value doesn't mean you get paid that afternoon unless stated as so. I appreciate your patience just the same.

hey matthew,

i have PM'd you regarding our bet. are you going to honor our bet?

I've been advised of your situation and to take you seriously-- once all the people have been paid back from your scams. At that point, yes, I will message you in regards to a settlement. Although that may sound hypocritical, we all know that a great majority of the betters were not planning on paying if they lost (they even admitted to me in PM and refused payment), so it is impossible to take someone seriously who is currently actively admitting to both being a scammer and having scammed at the time of the bet. That said, fix that little problem and we're back in order.

lets start negotiating now.

I'm afraid you'll have to wait until after. I do not currently regard your bet as being honorable, neither do the moderators and admins. Thanks for understanding. I'll be happy to negotiate the settlement after your situation is handled.

Cheers.

we will negotiate how we will handle our situation or i will not handle my situation with my buyers.

to show i am serious i will handle my situation with one of my buyers. when that happens we will negotiate our situation. deal?

Terribly sorry Mr. scammer, but this is not a negotiation.

LOL - and your bets were honorable? dont make me laugh. were both liars and tagged scammers. i wont negotiate either. now or never. think quick and carefully. i wont back down.

theymos, if matthew will not negotiate with me you should ban me again right now and that will be the end of it.

Please settle your outstanding debts before taking it up with Matthew.

no

bump

As I understand it, Matthew is buying back his reputation. What reputation do you have to sell to him, if any?

im not selling or buying back my reputation. i dont care about my reputation. i only care about fixing my bad decisions and collecting from matthew.

That's not true, and I already told you the reason in PM. It's not a matter of reputation. Everyone here knows I think many bitcoiners are retarded, delusional and irrational thinkers who have no place in the real world. This is about integrity. Just because I think someone is an idiot, doesn't mean I have the right to screw with their finances and get their hopes up. I deserve this punishment for crossing a very serious line, there is no doubt about it. It's kind of like going out drifting with your friends because "fuck the police" (done it), and ending up getting in a wreck and someone gets hurt. How can any sane person feel good about that afterwards? As the driver, I feel awful. I just want to make sure everyone in that car and outside is taken care of. It's not an issue of if I'm allowed to drive again, no one can stop me from driving again, not here, not anywhere. I don't need permission from people on an internet forum to drive. This is about being on my death bed and knowing I didn't do the right thing when I screwed up.

Having said that, I am positive there were numerous people who had no intention of paying me if they lost (because I have received numerous messages admitting to that). For an admitted scammer/welcher to come here demanding I pay him without realizing he's like #118 on the list of people before him who are also demanding to be paid, he's delusional. Doing the right thing would be ignoring him completely to be honest. The only reason I would ever begin to settle with him is because without settling with him, it leaves this issue open forever. I'm not going to settle with a scammer though, there's no debating that.

Since BTC guy's other accounts are not scammer tagged, maybe Matthew should registered Matthew N Wright (sans the period) so that he could have a clean account to conduct viable business. If ever it's brought to the attention of the newly named account referencing the scammed account, Matthew would simply address those concerns politely, then refer those to the other account where they will be addressed accordingly.

I'm not talking about your reputation, I'm talking about Matthew's. In effect, by repaying, Matthew is buying back his reputation/"integrity" from others whom he screwed. So my question is, what sort of reputation or integrity can you offer him with your scammer-labled account? I.e. what does Matthew gain from paying you back, if others around here may not give a crap one way or the other whether you were repaid?

In simple terms, Matthew repaying someone like Theymos or Gavin (had he owed them) would be a very good value for the money spent. Him repaying you? Not so much.

That's equivalent to evading a ban imo. Besides, I'm not proud of my own behavior in the past, but it's who I am and I own it. It's like watching someone working out as a skinny weakling and meeting them later in life when they're buff, and them denying that they were ever skinny and weak. They simply wouldn't. They'd be beaming and proud of their change. I'd be robbing myself of that I guess.

For an extreme example, Sonny, the CEO of BFL, is a convicted criminal who was arrested for a fraud basically doing exactly what BFL is doing now, and people still send them money. Do you really think a scammer tag is going to keep me from doing business, having friends, getting married, investing, learning, collaborating, and supporting projects? It's more likely that the bad habit of creating sock puppets (like some others here) will leak into their real lives and make them cowards. No thanks!

matthew, you never responded to my PM or sent me any PM at all. the first time you responded to me was when i posted in this thread.

i dont care about you matthew. i dont care what your thought process is or what your reasons for doing it was. we both made the bet. you confirmed and accepted my bet. if you want to man up and accept responsibility for your actions you will have to deal with me. im not asking you to give me any coins at this point. im only asking you to begin the negotiation process.

matthew gets to accept responsibility for his actions and clear his name. its a learning experience for him. it will give him good character. his actions will also insure the people i burned are repaid.

Where is the 250 BTC you would have given me if I won? You can't repay anyone you scammed without me giving you money, then you couldn't pay me if I had won.

now we have scammers infighting......

I guess it's better than inbreeding.

is there a difference?  :P

Theymos and I agree that BTC guy's bet with Matthew N. Wright should be postponed until BTC guy refunds his creditors. It's only fair that he removes his tag and repays his dues to other users before requesting for his own debt to be repaid.

That's the second class response I've read from your today. Two damn excellent posts!

Later, bud.

~Bruno K~

i probably would not have paid you the coins if i lost. but i am bipolar so if i was in the mood to man up i would have. what i would have done or would not have done does not excuse you or give you a free pass to man up with everybody but me. if you want to man up and accept responsibility for your actions you will have to deal with me.

matthew, i have enough coins right now to pay back every person i burned and pay you twice over.

i dont give a fuck what you or theymos think. im not asking for any coins. im only asking he negotiate with me. if he wont then fuck everybody and ban me. i will not take responsibility for my actions if your BS scamming staff member doesnt.

Quoted

I'm all for the decision made, but allow me play devil's advocate for a sec in case a similar thing happens in the future.

If I was scammed by Matthew, but was about to be paid due to being moved up in the queue, are you saying that I would be put at the end of the queue if I received a scammer tag?

Exactly where would I be placed if labeled a scammer, and where would I be placed once the scammer tag is removed? If my original queue position was passed with all others after me paid, would I then be the very first one to receive payment, or would I be place at the end of the queue, getting double punished for an act of which was never related to the first one?

Not dissing you or theymos, John. Just seeking clarification now that this position is in the open. Sorry for opening up a can of worms, but now seems important.

Later, bud.

~Bruno K~