Bitcoin Forum

UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision of a huge corporate electronics manufacturer in Canada and we want you to get to know us before we take even 1 order. Ordering has been suspended for now and we are sorting out the banking and tax issues with Tom. Hopefully he does the right thing and for his credit he has givin us zero indication that he does not have full intention of doing the right thing. Luckily for everyone Tom seems to be doing the best he can to refund every single customer in a timely fashion. Now I know we lost most of our customers and that is fine. We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer) Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES. Their terms of service contract is basically setup so they can legally take your money and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end. How about the end of Febuary, March? These numbers will be very low. The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better. My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease. We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty. Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ). Our ASIC chips can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS which will use a maximum of 200watts per device. They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed , Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference. Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.

Copy/pasta:

"devision" - really professional.  Glad I have no money in that anymore.

UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. We are a specialized devision(

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[...]
Professional, my fuckin' ass!
[...]

UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway.

We plan to show full video proof before we take 1 single order and unlike some competitors these shipments willl be coming from the USA and will include USPS tracking numbers (DHL for international customer)

Now for the hard truth We have strong reason to believe that BFL has been stringing you along all this time beause it needed your money to cover their R&D / NRE costs, its quite likely they are even using Pre-sale orders to pay their employees saleries which i am not sure of US law but is illegal in Canada. BEWARE OF BFL. ITS ALL LIES.

Yes Finally! Avalon comes out with the first ASIC device but how many will we actually see in customers hands by months end.

The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

My company has been developing custom ASIC and FPGA based solutions for decades we work in the military and telecommunications sectors and can accomplish this task at ease.

We currently have a full functioning and hashing prototype which we plan to bring to production next week. We understand time critical solutions and it is our specialty.

Instead of a full Standard CELL ASIC whch takes AGES to complete low success rates and extremey high NRE we are using FPGA hard copies of what is probably the best FPGA Bitcoin mining core in history (no it is not open source sorry ).

Our ASIC chips

can mine at over 2 gh/s comfortably and at a very low clock, which will ensure excellent heat disapation as well as chip longetivity. The inexpensive nature of the manufacturer of these chips will allow us to build machines that will use a large number of cheap chips and still keep electrical rates down to a reasonable level. These will be fully enclosed devices, not as cleaver as as our friends at Avalon with their stand alone wifi devices but they will include 25 FPGA hard copy ASICS
which will use a maximum of 200watts per device.

They will however require a host computer. The best part of our device is the speed at which we can develop them. We have a fully functional PCB fab and electronics assembly as well as a fully functional SHIPPING DEPARTMENT in house and we have already begun this process. I know it's a bit late in the game to introduce a product such as this but we wanted our news to get out there in the main stream. Tom is out. We are in. the bASIC is officially DEAD. Get ready for a 50Gh/s ASIC Based device shipping from the US with tracking and no none sense. There will be no deadline back outs and no B.S. We purchased this company from Tom for many reasons but the main reason is his un revealed completed design that can easily be converted to support 25 hard copy ASICS. The hardest work for us is already completed ,

Believe it or not, this IS happening and like I said before you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community. We cannot give an exact date at this time but It would not surprise me in the slightest that our first device ships before BFL. Professionals have taken this over and professionalism which is long over due in this industry will make all the difference.

Please watch our you tube channel (coming soon) for a video of the device hashing by next week at the latest. Once the video has been shot we have decided to ship the device to conman who in my opinion develops the best Bitcoin mining software available. Please check back for more updates.

The sheer unprofessionalism of the supossid leaders in this industry is down right appaling talking about Bitcoin in general it's mind boggling - how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

Wall of text with no line breaks. Poor html hack together. Spelling errors. Grammar errors. Bashing the competition. Totally vague about who they really are. Claiming Tom is permanently out. Claiming they can throw together a FPGA hardcopy with Tom's 4x4=16 chip board (adapted to a 5x5=25 chip board, I'm assuming?), and be shipping "Before BFL", which I take to mean March '13. 30 days. Really?

My favorite part:

Either Tom got drunk again, and started posting shit, or bASIC is screwed worse than they were before.

...how these companies like BFL and bASIC can just string their customers along for months and no one comes out with anything better.

I just wonder when will AMD join the game...  Their stock performance is miserable, this might be the chance to turn the tide for the company, they could easily produce the most advanced ASIC devices using their 40nm process and very mature cooling solution, then we will back to the old gpu mining era  ;D ;D

Copy/pasta:

you will see a youtube video of this device hashing along before we ever ask for one red cent from the community

Like, 0.1% of their GPU sales are for mining. The market isn't big enough for AMD ASIC yet.

Not that I believe this is legitimate, but many business managers and technical engineering types actually don't have great spelling/grammar/etc (or don't care).  Some of the emails I received from those sorts were worse than this even was.  Just something to think about...

bASIC is dead! End of story. No viable entity worth their salt would touch this with a barge-pole.

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

Possibly, but to put up a wall of text on an official website, coupled with having it improperly formatted on the page doesn't look like something some self-professed professional should do if they want to be taken seriously. Atlas, off his medication, could have done better.

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

Kinda looks like Tom or comproTom (aka drunk Tom, the supposedly compromised account that stirred up some drama recently).

.......this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!

UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT - "Tom" or "Dave" is no longer affiliated with this company in anyway. ...

Tom's drunk again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

Any company that takes pre-order money for a product that simply does not exist yet is putting all the risk on buyer.

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

So, I'm assuming all the risk when I go over to GameStop and preorder the next latest title 6-12 months in advance?

I understand the point your trying to make, but if refunds are a feasible option for the customer "investor", then the risk is limited. Hence why Avalon is the riskiest investment opportunity out there right now...once you give them your money, that's it..nothing else you can do except wait for your product.
At least with BFL (and bASIC there for a while) you can get a refund immediately. With ASICMiner you can just sell your shares (though I'm not sure how liquid they are).

This is my point the risk is there and the customer took it small, big w/e the customer floated the risk thats all i am saying at this point.  There isnt a guarentee of refunds hence why i belive it should have been called an investment and not a pre-order.

I disagree about the gaming analogy, you are buying a game for entertainment (more like buying movie passes or concert tickets) and there is virtually no chance of "making an ROI".  Games are designed and sold as entertainment ASIC hardware is not sold for entertainment. 

What all the vendors have done is ask for an investement/ interest free loan from the community but called it pre-orders.. 

By the way why didnt they go to a bank or an investement firm for R&D costs?  I am guessing an interest free loan from the community was much easier to get and much more economically appealing...

We seem to be on the same page here.



I'm not sure you understand what a return on investment is..but you can make one on anything, it just doesn't have to be positive ;)

And ASICs can be quite entertaining when put in front of the right audience :)


You might want to go back and check your facts on that one. Avalon, BFL, and bASIC all had income from their FPGA sales, which primarily fueled their ASIC development. Butterfly Labs also has outside funding besides their previous sales. Whether or not each company used preorder funds to help in the development process is up for debate, but my hunch is that most companies took the more ethical route.

And for all we know, others could have gotten external funding as well. It's not like they're publicly traded companies with the requirement to disclose such information.

Last time I checked, not all Canadien has English mother tongue. They could be Frech Canadians.

I'm not Canadian btw, just recalling that I visited Canada last time (Quebec city)

I think you're knit picking nitpicking.

If they had profits and outside investments, why exactly did they need to take full payment pre-orders?  if they didnt need customer money why not take a small deposit to hold the clients place, this is what normal real world companies do?

Copy/pasta:

This text has been updated several times.. so far....
So obviously who ever it is , is reading the threads.

This makes absolutely no sense, just like all the other recent posts of Tom. I think he's hallucinating.

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Sure their first post is "unprofessional", but they're not asking you to send millions of dollars before there's any proof the hardware exists...

Oh most definitely  :D


Meh, why not? As a small company, it's vastly easier to have everyone pay in full right from the start and have them shoulder all the risk. When the time comes to build, package, and ship, it's nice to know that you have X amount of customers that have already paid, compared to X [fully paid], Y [partially paid], and/or even Z [not paid]. It negates the "Oh wait, did this person pay the rest of their bill before I ship?" type of mentality.

I mean just look at Avalon, pre pay in full with no refund... that's on batch #2  Avalon is losing absolutely nothing no matter what happens, anyone ordering is taking all the risk (big or small its still risk).  When purchasing goods it is not normal for the consumer to take ALL the risk while the retailer and manufacture take none.  God I wish I could get away with this type of business model at my job!

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?

Do you build to order in your job?  It's actually pretty common to pay upfront and not be able to get a refund on built to order goods.  Bitcoins ASICs have had a long timeline from order to delivery on their first batches and you're right that customers were bearing a large risk.  I don't think you can say that they were bearing all the risk, though, because it's highly likely that first batch sales didn't cover development costs.

No-one's forcing anyone to pre-order.  Plenty of people have decided to wait until BFL is shipping on a normal retail basis rather than pre-order from anyone.

You're apparently also overlooking the fact that Avalon didn't intend to ship rigs initially so they weren't set up for that.  They've been open about the fact that pre-order funds for Batch 2 will be used to build the units.

What I should have said was if you want to get into ASICS you will only be able to do by full payment pre-orders thus transferring a debateable amount of risk from the manufacture to the consumer.

Flying Hellfish - STFU

That won't be the case once BFL catches up on their pre-orders.  They'll be looking at a turnaround time of a couple of days from order to shipping then - faster than Dell can build me and ship me a computer and certainly faster than the two months or so I have to wait for built to order furniture that I've paid for.

ASIC pre-order customers have taken substantial risks - there's no doubt about that - but the option of waiting until BFL pre-orders were cleared has always been there.  Those who pre-ordered wanted to be the first to get ASICs because they realise that every ASIC which hits the market diminishes the profitability of all other ASICs.  Most were hoping to have their ASICs in hand before the block reward halved and thought that they'd have a significant head start on ASIC mining before a large number of ASICs were delivered by different vendors.  They viewed the potential reward as being worth the risk.  

The big thing to remember is that this product has one purpose - to generate income in the form of Bitcoins.  That people will take huge risks in pursuit of Bitcoins has been demonstrated time and time again.

You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

If you don't want people to take your inflammatory, false/misleading statements at face value, then say what you mean.  You have never been forced to order from any ASIC vendor.  You have always had the option to wait until the products were available for purchase and shipped to you.  Your entire premise is flawed, in so far as the fact that if you pre-ordered, you chose to do so of your own free will.  If the risk that you would be bearing is too much, then do not pre-order. There is absolutely zero requirement for you to do so, thus your statements are false.  You may not like it, true, but you are free not to participate.  Those that are willing to shoulder the risk and those that don't mind the situation will take your place... but there is nothing forcing you to participate at any level.

Yes, of course, attacking you... pointing out that your entire statement is false in a semi-humorous way is attacking you.  You're the only troll here, sir.

You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

Created account about the same time website content is changed - true (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=79608).
Knows much about gambling and similar websites - true (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140341.msg1494540#msg1494540).
Focused on ASIC and especially this thread - true (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=79608;sa=showPosts).

STFU, will ya?

I feel weird saying this, but I agree with Jeff. Customers chose to bear risk, and they may be rewarded (or burnt) by that choice. However, you should make the argument that ASIC vendors misrepresented the risk by over-promising. The counter to that is that all vendors, accept BitcoinASIC, have either delivered products or are offering refunds to anyone at any time.

So in the end, the only argument you have is that ASIC vendors made things inconvenient for you (if you were someone that priced risk somewhere between the initial offering and the current state) or that BitcoinASIC took your money and ran.

"You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all." - Something is in such demand people are willing to buy it at all costs, isn't that economics 101? Put it differently, given the choice of no pre-sale or pre-sale, the market overwhelming is calling for a presale (this is demonstrated by the fact that they still have orders even after the delay and the risk became evident).

Want to get rid of these I don't drink liquor, bought them with a lot I purchased from an Auction

Each bottle sells for 5 BTC w/ $20 Shipping USA Only (sorry its just too expensive overseas)

These are all quart Bottles and considered high quality liquor

1 x Seagrams Blended Canadian Whiskey
1 x Southern Comfort 100 Proof
1 x Gordons Vodka

PM if interested - Ship the same day

thank you

Congratulations!
bitcoinbooze.com
is available. Snap it up before someone else does. Just $12.99*

You all knew the market was big enough that enough people would be willing to take any option given them, greed blinds after all.

Sorry.

As a Canadian, I would like to formally apologize for the unprofessionalism displayed by my apparent neighbours.

I assure you that there are many Canadians who know how to use features like spellcheck and understand the purpose of paragraphs.
One can never underestimate the power of proofreading a post before clicking POST.

In short, sorry.
eh.

Avalon made clear at the outset that they needed pre-orders for 300 units in order for the project to go ahead.  People were begging them to increase the amount of units available in Batch 1 and they refused, which is hardly the hallmark of a greedy company.  Batch 2 orders are only being opened now and those units will be available at $1499 rather than the $1999 which was originally planned for Batch 2.  They've openly stated that pre-order money will be used to build the units.

Tom was obviously dependent on pre-order money for the bASIC project, too - we know that he needed additional funds to complete it when things went wrong even though the project had some investors from the community.

BFL is the only company which has said it had sufficient funds to develop its ASICs without pre-order money.

I seriously doubt that any of the Bitcoin vendors are going to show any meaningful profit from their first runs.

CAN-ELECTRIC is here to offer you the Ehasher the next generation Bitcoin mining hardware that offers significant improvements from GPU-based and traditional FPGA based mining rigs and leaves the competition far behind in terms of enterprise level FPGA Hard Copy, PCB fabrication, Device Assembly, Customer Support, as well as our own enterprise level shipping department with in house logistics center that no competitor can hope to match.

Our FPGA Hard Copy process, PCB fab and Electrical unit Assembly takes place ENTIRELY In-House, giving us an incredible advantage over our competitors.

100 Gh/s    50 Gh/s
          1899.99      $999.99

Well that certainly got tidied up.




https://www.bitcoinasic.net/

Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?

They need to reveal who the parent company is...Lets hope it is real  :-\

This is Bruno (will confirm in a sec by replying to post). I created this account mainly for the sole purpose as a character to interact in this game: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121306.0

If I don't get out ASAP, I will fire up Nikki the Bitch and raise all kinds of hell provided, of course, theymos didn't permanently ban her (which I think he did).  

~Bruno~

More info from:
http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/electric-contractors/can-electric-ltd-in-edmonton-ab-151126

BBB file opened: 29/09/2008
Business started: 01/03/2007

Licensing
This company is in an industry that may require licensing, bonding or registration in order to lawfully do business. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.

Type of Entity
Limited

Contact Information
Principal: Ari Asmar (Owner)

Number of Employees
3

Business Category
Electric Contractors, Contractors - Electrical (Industrial/Commercial)

Fuck you guys.... I'm in...
This is a  Once Twice Third opportunity of a lifetime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pEY17qbdGqE#t=19s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pEY17qbdGqE#t=18s)


Thank F**

Just managed to get my order in before the rush........
https://i.imgur.com/Zi5cmof.jpg

Of course they're weightlesss.  Vapourware weighs nothing.   ;D

Well if ths was real and my BTC refund money could be reapplied to getting one of these(for damn sure)... I would take that offer =)

Great lords of thunder!  What!??? I thought they were NOT going to ask for any pre-orders till a YouTube video of a hashig rig was released.

At this point I'll believe anything, even if it involves Can-Electric Asain Overlords. A Strange Brew indeed.

Cute gimmick Phinn.

The Can Electric ToS lists NY as the relevant jurisdiction - which is kind of curious for a Canadian company based in Iraq.  It's not so curious if this is some bullshit move to try make people think someone new is in charge of bASIC, though.

Why isn't the Canadian phone number for the real Can Electric listed on the site?  Are they just hoping that no-one's going to phone the Iraq number?

Is this a "Canadian" company?

The Iraq number is a mobile phone number (I guess prepaid) from KorekTel Mobile

The Iraq number is a mobile phone number (I guess prepaid) from KorekTel Mobile

Iraqi-Asian-Canadian-NewYork Company with an official workforce of 2 with 1 million in pre-sales already.....look all they are missing is the kidnapped Canadian  princess that we have to rescue from the castle who is secretly working for the CIA while infiltrating Al-Cadia posted to Iraq

Bitcoin, you couldnt make shit this good up .... :D ......lol .... :'(

It seems the bloke was immigrant of the year 2011, or something.  google his name, he seems to know his hivolt power...

anyway, the question that is burning me up is Tom never developed his own asic hashing core, he licensed it from somewhere else. So what has can-electric actually bought? The rights to use someone else's core? why not just ask that company themselves?

I just don't get it.

Also does anyone remember Tom vanishing to Canada around Nov time?

The problem is that nothing about Can Electric indicates that they have any experience in the IT field - and the revised BitcoinASIC site claims that they do and that they can do all sorts of hardware stuff in-house.  Their claims are so outrageous that I doubt anyone's even going to make a phone call to Iraq, although someone might email the real Can Electric tomorrow.

The updates to the site would imply that he intends to make good on the promise of delivering 45nm FPGA's. 

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I read that HardCopy is trademarked by Altera and that they use TSMC for fabrication - and that TSMC doesn't even do 45nm. 

Interesting.  I know very little about Altera, the Xilinx version is called easypath. Don't BFL use stratix? (altera 45nm)... so could a single do 2+gh/s?  

Altera likely uses different fabs for different products.

It looks like Ari Asmar has been back living in Iraq since 2011, based on his FB page.

This year’s awards program received more than 500 nominations over a two-month period, from which 75 finalists were shortlisted by a panel of Canadian Immigrant magazine judges. The awards program was also supported by the Toronto Star, Metro and Sing Tao.

Ari Asmar (Edmonton, Alberta/Iraq) is a master electrician. Although he’s been in Canada less than 10 years, he devotes lots of time to volunteering in his community, such as with a YMCA newcomers program.

As a member of a large family of Kurdish refugees — six siblings and his parents — Ari Asmar knows a bit about pitching in, sharing and working hard.

The master electrician has been in Canada eight years and is proud of the company he started from scratch: Can Electric Ltd.

He’s even prouder of the countless hours he’s dedicated as a volunteer in his new country: helping with the YMCA’s newcomers program, mentoring young tradespeople and working with Amnesty International and the Abbotsfield Youth Project, which helps children of parents with drug issues.

Asmar is also involved in green technologies — participating in solar and wind energy seminars and promoting green energy through his work as an electrical contractor.

He says his best advice for immigrants is to work hard and don’t stop giving. “This is a great country and there’s lots of opportunities for everyone,” he says. “I know this … my entire family is so happy to be here.”

He came to Canada, got settled, and then sponsored his parents, brothers and sisters. “My first night here, I didn’t have any money, I didn’t know anybody and I stayed in a shelter,” he says. “But that didn’t matter. I was just excited to be in Canada and I was starting something new.”

Domain name: canelectric.ca
Domain status: registered
Creation date: 2009/02/28
Expiry date: 2014/02/28
Updated date: 2013/01/18

Registrar:
Name: Go Daddy Domains Canada, Inc
Number: 2316042

Name servers:
dns1.irangiga.com
dns2.irangiga.com
ns1-maverick.nswebhost.com
ns2-maverick.nswebhost.com

% WHOIS look-up made at 2013-02-03 17:59:27 (GMT)
%
% Use of CIRA's WHOIS service is governed by the Terms of Use in its Legal
% Notice, available at http://www.cira.ca/legal-notice/?lang=en
%
% (c) 2013 Canadian Internet Registration Authority, (http://www.cira.ca/)

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/canadas-top-25-immigrants/canadas-top-25-immigrants-2011/ari-asmar

I suggest somebody contacting Ari to see if he's really behind the re-branding of Tom's company. This would explain away the grammatical errors we've all been making light of, including myself.

I've already emailed the legitimate Can Electric.  All of Ari's FB posts since late 2011 have been made from Iraq.  If I don't get an email response within a couple of days I'll message him on the number listed on the real Can Electric site (which is one number different than the one on the bASIC site) and/or on FB.

Odd! One number off. Either an easily made error, or...

Does anyone know if it's even possible for hard copies of FPGAs to get that sort of performance? Wouldn't Avalon have done that if it would have worked?

The methodology you use to create HardCopy ASICs allows you to seamlessly prototype your system with Stratix® IV FPGAs and completely prepare your system for production, prior to ASIC design handoff. Altera's HardCopy Design Center uses a proven turnkey process to implement low-cost, low-power, functionally-equivalent, pin-compatible HardCopy IV devices. This methodology is more than just a fast ASIC development methodology, it is the ultimate system development methodology.

I think it is irrelevant what Altera can deliver, hell is going to freeze over before forum members place money with anything connected with Tom.

I think it is irrelevant what Altera can deliver, hell is going to freeze over before forum members place money with anything connected with Tom.

Apparently a "huge corporate electronics manufacturer" has resorted to libel and is now attacking BFL, bASIC, and Avalon—all at once. And to add to the word power, look at their excellent spelling!

• anyway
• devision
• givin
• its
• saleries
• setup
• months
• supossid
• disapation
• longetivity
• cleaver
• none sense
• un revealed
• conman

Obviously the same style of writing we've seen under the "old" management when drunk. 

It all makes sense to me now...

https://i.imgur.com/JcAcG8m.gif

Ari Asman is our new Asain Overlord.

Hopefully he'll deliver on bASIC/Ehasher

and/or

process BTC refunds.

I am going to place an order TODAY !!!

What we need in NerdVille is more ASSMAN's

So I am going to give him my support because (even though I am a Titsman) we need more Assman's in ASIC & BTC ...lol :D

The phone number is correct.

Look again Phinn.  The Iraqi phone number for the real Can Electric is +964 750 344 6565.  The number on the revamped bASIC site is +964 750 344 6566.  The real Can Electric doesn't hyphenate the company name, either.

This actually crosses the line from mere incompetence into outright fraud and Ari Asmar should be contacting Tom via lawyers with a "please explain".

I just got the same email from Ari.

This is the contact info I have for Tom.  Can someone confirm whether it's correct (I think the phone number may no longer be active).

P.O. Box 246
Hannibal, NY 13074

Telephone:
3155140269

PO box wont help a lot I think Does tom revelatead his real name in past or does ppl send him ten sof thousands in btc without know his real name and having just a po box and a prepaid phone? Sounds like crazy if...

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

About the vanity plate i found this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70113.0

As far as we know, his name is Thomas Van Riper.

He got a Bitcoin vanity licence plate last year, so Ari's lawyers could probably track him that if anyone has a picture of the licence plate (it was on his Google+ account but he's deleted that account now and I can't find a picture in Google cache but he may have posted it here as well - it was in March 2012).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66927.msg778314#msg778314

Dave had access to the merchant account so he should be able to provide all of the details related to that account.

The domain registration info for BTCFPGA uses the PO box address.

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/btcfpga.com

This was the street address for his computer repair shop.  It's also the address given on several domains Tom registered.

121 Lyon Street, Fulton, NY 13069 - New York,

Tel: (315) 514-0269

He was still using that phone number late last year but the website for the computer repair shop is now blank.

Fulton is significantly larger (so more commercial) than Hannibal (which is more rural). So, he probably worked in Fulton and just lives in/near Hannibal where his PO Box was located.

I'm curious as to how fast authorities will respond if we aggregate our complaints and focus them at the proper authorities. Is there any one thread yet where we can do this - i.e. focus & coordinate a collective response? or Has anyone taken action to contact any authorities for themselves yet?

||bit

I am now in my second semester as a full time liberal arts Psych major at CCC, my dream career is to be in a position to help people - specifically youth, in the field of Substance Abuse Counseling.

https://sites.google.com/site/votevanriper/home/elect-thomas-van-riper-sgo-secretary

so what your gonna do?

With no other known source of income, it looks like them bitcoins Tom has is going to go toward food to feed 6 hungry individuals, rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, did I mention food?, car payment(s), groceries, clothing for growing children, and more food.

During the course of being funny, above, I just realized something. For him to cash out any significant coins, he may have to go through a known clearinghouse. Something to think about.

Think harder. Bitcoins are easy to launder.

thanks xxxxxxxx

if you could send me his contact I will deal with it

regards
Ari

New email from Ari.  I told him we were trying to collate as much information about Tom as possible and have sent him a link to what we already have.

LOL WTF?! whats that supposed to mean!?

He's going to kill him.

LOL WTF?! whats that supposed to mean!?

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

I can confirm the zip code, but that's for the whole town Fulton.

From NY DMV and zip code checks out: 13069


Vehicle Plate Number:      BITCOIN
Make of Vehicle:      CHEVR
Model Year of Vehicle:      2005

New theory: Tom + Ari are the same person!

How do people think they can totally get away with scamming a bunch of people with vast computer knowledge unless they are single and willing to leave the country...quickly.

I mean this community is easy to scam because of greed, but once you have the loot you need to skeedaddle.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd with internet access...

I'm sure there are secret underground bunkers all over the world where Trendon Shavers, Bruce Wagner, Tom Williams, Zhou Tong, Amir Taaki and Co. sit around scared witless of the mighty internet nerds revenge.

How do people think they can totally get away with scamming a bunch of people with vast computer knowledge unless they are single and willing to leave the country...quickly.

I mean this community is easy to scam because of greed, but once you have the loot you need to skeedaddle.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd with internet access...

Yeah true enough. I guess I assumed people were following through...silly me.

Here comes the retribution for stealing ~50-100k BTC STyle ??

"Youre a scammer"

WOAH!!...ohh the humanity....its worse than Hitler....

...ho humm...Easy targets :D

I informed the real Ari about this thread and the whole story, I guess he will made some justice action too. Anyway if this guy ( thomas Van Riper seem his real identity, google will give you same head than the picture with license plate) was frauding using my name company I wont let this happend without sentence... Specially he's american also easy to reach...real name, real face, he have a shop physical...Well I'm just sad for ppl who paid with BTC as they will be never refund and it will be hard to proof anything with BTC as ever...

Seem Thomas Van Riper is his real name, this is now confirmed. Free for Ari or customers of bAsic scammed to continu the process... Anyway this scam case will be more to easy to fix than some others...Good luck for people scammed in BTC to recover their funds (I never ordered from bAsic)

The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.

He got the licence plate in March last year.  He was still using the Fulton Street address for his PC repair business late last year but the website for that business is now gone.  It's still a reasonable starting point for lawyers, though.


It would be funnier if Tom and Sonny were the same person.

Nah, he got scammer tagged under his other name, Bruce Wagner. Very misleading.

Actually, no! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2033

The only known scammer that didn't suffer such humiliation was Tom Williams.

I'm not even sure how I would approach this from a legal standpoint. Who does one contact? Surely not the police. The FBI would get involved if it can be shown that mail fraud has been committed. What's interesting is this... if the FBI determine that the bitcoins are not real money or something liek that and the only thing he has to re-imburse are bitcoins. That will suck fro Tom since the price are probably on average double since he accepted most of them.

Is there a way someone more technically competent than me can make a copy of the BitcoinASIC.net website in case the scammers decide to tske it down in a hurry?

I believe this picture of Cablepair / Thomas Van Riper was taken at this (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&geocode=&q=121+Lyon+St,+Fulton,+NY+13069&aq=&sll=52.127808,5.913461&sspn=1.55628,3.348083&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=121+Lyon+St,+Fulton,+Oswego,+New+York+13069,+Verenigde+Staten&ll=43.314168,-76.409306&spn=0.000901,0.001635&z=20) location.

Does anyone know if he still stays at this location ?

The Fulton address comes up positive for a person named Amy [C.] Vanriper. She is 29 years old. About the same age as Tom. Perhaps, his sister or wife.
Associated with the same address is the name Jeremy Wallace that is about ten years older or so which is possibly old data.

Well, now it's known where the lawyers can start looking.

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can do himself a big favor by updating people on the status of all the returns. Like how many are to process, and his daily progress...etc.. Silence on the issue only builds frustration with the people that already got screwed over.

||bit

I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?

What are you suggesting ?

This picture of Tom was taken at this (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&geocode=&q=121+Lyon+St,+Fulton,+NY+13069&aq=&sll=52.127808,5.913461&sspn=1.55628,3.348083&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=121+Lyon+St,+Fulton,+Oswego,+New+York+13069,+Verenigde+Staten&ll=43.314168,-76.409306&spn=0.000901,0.001635&z=20) location and now we learned that Amy Van Riper [29] also lives there. (what's the source of this last part of information?)

Tom (unless he is just a patsy for of a more elaborate scheme) can [...]

||bit

He doesn't appear to be watching this thread...

"Last Active:    January 22, 2013, 09:16:33 PM"

That doesn't mean much. If you remember, that account was blocked for "being hacked". He's more likely here with another account altogether. Or not signed in at all.

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

Is the police responsible to investigate when they get a notice about a large scale fraud or is selling a product, get paid with a non-standard currency and never deliver anything legal in the US? Will there be an official investigation?

I doubt local police would get involved, but an agency like the SEC might if the value is large enough.  I don't think it matters whether that value is in USD or not.

I just heard from the bank, my credit will be issued back to my credit card.  I called the Police because of the threats to his family.  I don't know what really happened but the whole things sounds more like a screw-up than a deliberate scam.

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

Unless he's already gone.. slipped into permanent vacation with his family and can't be traced. I doubt he'd be dumb enough to remain a sitting duck.

I'm all for going after scammers as aggressively as possible, but you might want to do a little more research before you post the name and address of some quite possibly unrelated person.

Anything whatsoever to suggest that the two live(d) there at the same time, or know each other? Or did you find some woman's name related to that address, and you're just running it up the flag poll?

What the fuck am I talking about? Trendon Shavers is probably in his mom's bathroom jacking off while reading this.

I have just received  an  encrypted email, one where I had to log into THEIR system to read the email and reply.
the Bank have been following this case/new-site & the forum.

They are STRONGLY of the opinion  that a 'Card replacement' is in order for any CC related to this case.
Since the original cards were processed and the 3 digit security number was supplied to validate the transactions, there is nothing to prevent the CC being re-billed or the card details being 'used' illegally.
Since the details  (address & cardholder details, card number & security digits) are in the possession of a 3rd party

Y'all need to read this post.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.msg1511184#msg1511184

If you paid Tom by credit card, get a replacement card issued.

I may have to beg to differ on this, SS.

I'm sure we've all seen, heard, read, etc., accounts of scams taking place via phone, now net, preying mainly on the elderly, but other demographics apply. The local paper does a little write-up on said scams, advising its citizens to contact the local police department, anonymously, if anybody has information. There hope is to nap the guy(s)/gal(s) before further damage is done in the respected community.

Likewise, if you see a theft committed of some other person, the police will not decide to not investigate because it's not your property at stake. Furthermore, if you know of a person who has stolen property, even though it's not your property, you're obligated to inform the police department. This is true even if the thief hasn't yet been reported, let alone not yet in the court systems, regardless of what jurisdiction the items were stolen from. In this case, it's documented and trackable wealth stolen from citizens from across the globe.

An example, to possibly drive the point home. I go to Indiana and visit a fellow Bitcoiner. During the visit, I stealing something from his home he yet has discovered missing. Back in Illinois, another fellow Bitcoiner visits my home and somehow notices that I have stolen property in my possession belonging to the other Bitcoiner in Indiana. The Bitcoiner in Indiana is now currently on safari in Africa, and will remain out of pocket for at least a couple more months. Meanwhile, it's a known fact, I'm moving soon.

Given the above, the Bitcoiner who visited my home is obligated to contact the police, stating his case. At this point, the police may take possession of said stolen item, informing me that I will get it back once the safari guy returns and proves that this is all a misunderstanding. No real harm for all parties occurred, and all are protected.

In Tom's case, the proof is overwhelming, and for the police not to act accordingly would not bode well for their department.

Bottom line, real wealth was transferred via wire under false pretense, and the scam is continuing to this day, but now incorporating identity theft, a felony.

To me, if convicted, Tom Van Riper may not see his children grow up, and all the college degrees he's earned would be for naught. Now, imagine being in his shoes. You think you pulled the perfect crime, but compounded it, and now you're scared to death. Personally, if I pulled such a stunt, not a single family member would come to my rescue, regardless of what I may have done for them in the past. I can't see anybody having 100% support from their family if they pulled such a ruse.

Tom Van Riper is not in a happy place now, for he inevitable knows that his perhaps once good name is forever tarnished.

~Bruno K~

Anyone have any ideas (estimates) on how much Tom might still owe out to people in dollars? or bitcoins?

||bit

I heard it was around 10,000 BTC.  Don't quote me on that.

Remaining:
136 BTC order refunds
106 BTC order refunds (already sent to Tom for payment)

I heard it was around 10,000 BTC.  Don't quote me on that.

I've perused some lawyers online that are in his area, and found a firm that handles cases of fraud etc... But I'm not committed to this route, yet.

||bit

I don't think a consultation with a lawyer to find out the options available is a bad idea.  Getting that information doesn't commit anyone to a course of action and people probably need to keep their expectations about what can realistically be done grounded in reality. 

Yeah. I think there is plenty of evidence to show Tom took other's money/property. What shocks me is how silent Tom is about the refunds now. Does he think this will just "go away"? In the end, I won't be surprised if he ends up owing more than he took.

Not that it matters, but are there any photos or videos of Tom with his business name/product both visible?

||bit

JontheDong,

Is Tom's account still hacked?


lol

Maybe Tom is just riding this rally out, knowing everyone's pretty much cool with pricing his "product" in terms of USD,(i.e giving Tom free btc in the name of conversion, though no conversion actually happened with the btc) that way he can pay everyone back and still make a couple hundred thousand (if that's indeed what he's still owed).  Why would he pay you while the price is still sky rocketing under those circumstances?

A business venture gone bad is not necessarily a fraud.

Also, and somebody else would have to look into this aspect, Tom Van Riper not only collect money for mining units, but also extra to handle S/H. Is there anyway to get the Postal General involve?

If your business is going bad, you communicate this to your business partners and customers. You keep them updated about what's going on and maybe you declare chapter 11 or whatever you do in this case.

But if you hide and run, I would consider it to be fraud.

In my experience, small businesses and individuals are often curiously reluctant to seek insolvency protection until judgements against them are piling up and ignoring financial disaster in the hope it will either go away or "something will come up" is pretty common.

We have no idea what Tom actually owes.  If there are "investors" they may even be secured creditors depending on how their financial contribution was structured.  Also, deeds of arrangement with creditors tend not to work so well when there are a large amount of creditors or when there would be difficulty in treating a class of creditors equally.

Phin, if this is a criminal matter then investigators have access to DMV and other asset records.  Plenty of people manage to avoid creditors without living as vagrant lifestyle as though they're trying to stay one step ahead of law enforcement.  It's certainly possible that Tom and his family are moving around from one cheap hotel to another and town to town, but there's no reason to believe that it's likely.  NY's a bigger city than Sydney and it would still be relatively easy to "disappear" here even if you'd committed the kind of crime which made accessing your bank accounts or using your ID dangerous.

Law enforcement can obviously seek the disgorgement of all sorts of information which isn't going to be available to creditors.

Two more thoughts.

What are the chances that Tom's still mining, and if he is, is he doing such via a pool. And if that's the case, can his IP be traced?

Also, and somebody else would have to look into this aspect, Tom Van Riper not only collect money for mining units, but also extra to handle S/H. Is there anyway to get the Postal General involve?

I can't phantom a hungry family of six on the lamb with a Bitcoin mining rig in tow.

Please stop your rambling.... blah blah... The poster you quoted made a good point and you didnt counter any of that. He clearly explained to you between fraud and business going bad. You're one of those who still thinks that Tom has no intention to scam (and you kept going on and on)

We all know your family member is a lawyer/paralegal. You're in AU, and this is US. Just stop all these "smart-ass" comment about your experiences with business and laws.... blah blah.

From what's been posted, he's user 111 on BTCGuild. He's mining there at 60GH/s right now.
https://www.btcguild.com/halloffame.php

Why are you always so angry?  ??? Relax a little, drink some nice tea, light some candles, have a hot bath, get a slow sensual massage.

So he's trying to earn those BTC to repay by mining day by day?

Maybe he should have paid down for an Avalon or 10 to speed up the process

Don't doubt it - anyone holding loads of BTC are in good position to order a MiniRig at $30K and hash their pants off.

Interesting! Very interesting! Very, very interesting! What are the chances that he currently has a mining rig(s) on order at either BFL or Avalon? He would have had to supply a mailing address at time of ordering. I'm not advocating that either entity relay said info publicly, but I'm sure there's something they could do when the time comes to aid in an investigation if such were the case.

Oh absolutely! If his customers pursue to the fullest extent, it's definitely going to land in mail fraud territory too.

What about Tax evasion? We don't know, can't prove it, but it seems plausible - was BTCFPGA web cart adding the appropriate State sales tax?

Anyone running a retail business and not charging sales tax is likely not filing their income tax return accurately either...

Maybe he should have paid down for an Avalon or 10 to speed up the process

From what's been posted, he's user 111 on BTCGuild. He's mining there at 60GH/s right now.
https://www.btcguild.com/halloffame.php

So that's about 9 BTC per day? Honestly, at this point I don't really care WHEN I get my refund... If Tom would (re)express intent to refund and show schedule to refund via mining proceeds - and subsequently begin executing upon said schedule, that will work for me. I think a LOT of vitriol here will dissipate if even a FEW Bitcoins start flowing back to BTCFPGA/bitcoinASIC customers.

I think sales tax only applies to people who live in NY, since that is where the business is located.

this entire mess is a cluster fuck. I dont see Tom doing anything on his own merit (regarding refund), he's gonna sit tight and patiently wait for this mess to go away. Untill  he's served legal papers or a fist sandwich -i just dont see him doing anything... again, we need to take action against him to force his hand. i'm telling you, he just gonna wait this one out... perhaps a CL ad's for someone that is local to his area???

I didnt followed all story anyway if as I read Tom is still owning all btc not converted, he can now convert getting double usd price and alo making 100% profit without scam anybody... Really BTC world is a paradise for scammer...

Suckers born every minute, yet somehow they all end in this community.

Some people lost some serious dough, stop adding salt to their wounds.

Did you honestly ever think Tom was pulling a scam up until things started to unravel? Hindsight is 20/20, however I don't think anyone but maybe a select few people in the community saw this coming.

Yeah, Tom, at this point is a lowlife scammer fuck(which Ive beens screaming scam since the start of january, but Ive been banned nearly everywhere...fuck his sheepish followers...you are all fools!). He deserves the tag and all his belongings / wealth to burn to the ground. Its a damn shame. Just goes to show you cant trust any mother fuckin ASIC company till they actually deliver product... and then, its still questionable bout what happens when units start failing and the company is long gone. Fuck this whole mess, it pisses me off.
I went w/ tom because of his decent track record w/ MMQ.
Just sad he would do this to us =(

Yeah, Im sure he did, theres one for sale in the forums as we speak. He was very honest back then. If he wasnt, there would have been tons of drama in the forums over him and he would have had the scammer tag long ago. Also, the units people wont as a result of advertising bASIC for him in forums...they confirmed receiving them too.

You're one of those who still thinks that Tom has no intention to scam (and you kept going on and on)

Some people lost some serious dough, stop adding salt to their wounds.

Did you honestly ever think Tom was pulling a scam up until things started to unravel? Hindsight is 20/20, however I don't think anyone but maybe a select few people in the community saw this coming.

CAN-ELECTRIC
Ayinda 1 city- Block G, No.21 Erbil/Iraq
P: +964 750 344 6566

This is the last reply from Ari (Real owner of CAN ELECTRIC), about his action against Tom

Thanks dear

The matter is with the RCMP interenet fraud unit and they are working on it
thanks

Ari

So the Canadian police is involved now...For the CAN ELECTRIC story and Ari's side.

This is the last reply from Ari (Real owner of CAN ELECTRIC), about his action against Tom

Thanks dear

The matter is with the RCMP interenet fraud unit and they are working on it
thanks

Ari

So the Canadian police is involved now...For the CAN ELECTRIC story and Ari's side.

NEW THEORY: Tom isn't scamming... he lost the password to the big wallet. Alcohol and advanced encryption don't mix.

I just heard from the bank, my credit will be issued back to my credit card.  I called the Police because of the threats to his family.  I don't know what really happened but the whole things sounds more like a screw-up than a deliberate scam.

The family is off limits.

if we don't FORCE him, he'll do nothing. He's just gonna wait it out. We have to make it perfectly clear to him, this isnt going away.

"FUCK YOU TOM, i'm not waiting" ...as mentioned before, start a BTC fund and road trip this shit?

telling Tom to do on this thread is senseless. I dont think hes reading this crap if he is not to be seen for weeks now.

Also: i never received my creditcard chargeback. Anyone else without? I contacted my creditcard company, there is still nothing they say. Cant chargeback, i would have had to do so within 6 weeks. Thats what you get for getting in early and getting out too late.. damn

telling Tom to do on this thread is senseless. I dont think hes reading this crap if he is not to be seen for weeks now.

Also: i never received my creditcard chargeback. Anyone else without? I contacted my creditcard company, there is still nothing they say. Cant chargeback, i would have had to do so within 6 weeks. Thats what you get for getting in early and getting out too late.. damn

telling Tom to do on this thread is senseless. I dont think hes reading this crap if he is not to be seen for weeks now.

Also: i never received my creditcard chargeback. Anyone else without? I contacted my creditcard company, there is still nothing they say. Cant chargeback, i would have had to do so within 6 weeks. Thats what you get for getting in early and getting out too late.. damn

telling Tom to do on this thread is senseless. I dont think hes reading this crap if he is not to be seen for weeks now.

Also: i never received my creditcard chargeback. Anyone else without? I contacted my creditcard company, there is still nothing they say. Cant chargeback, i would have had to do so within 6 weeks. Thats what you get for getting in early and getting out too late.. damn

Wait till you learn how Pastor Tom fucked his flock.

http://www.onlinepot.org/mailing_scams/hallofshame.htm

From trusted bitcoin user to total smeghead. It is shocking how many old school bitcoin users who build up such a solid reputation become total losers and walk away.

lol... wow.

He got the licence plate in March last year.  He was still using the Fulton Street address for his PC repair business late last year but the website for that business is now gone.  It's still a reasonable starting point for lawyers, though.


It would be funnier if Tom and Sonny were the same person.

Amy A Vanriper was born in 1980. Amy currently lives in Hannibal, New York. Before that, Amy lived in Phoenix, NY from 1999 to 2011. Before that, Amy lived in Fulton, NY from 2011 to 2012.

Amy A Vanriper is related to Mark Suppes, who is 54 years old and lives in Fulton, NY. Amy A Vanriper is also related to Thomas Vanriper, who is 32 years old and lives in Fulton, NY.

Hint: Think ATM.

Ass to mouth?  3 month old thread man... why?