Bitcoin Forum

When will ordering open for the hashing modules?

Is a power supply upgrade required to power all 4 modules?

see, same question.
I would put at least a 650watts powering the default 3 modules. So if the unit is upgrade ready, is it? thats 1 module more the psu must be at least 850watts.

If were my choice I would like to purchase without PSUs, bit cheaper, much lighter shipping that way and I could plan my upgrade path while using some ATX already have here. Would that void the warranty? I dont know.

From another thread...


Based on the information provided above, the Avalon units are not equipped to handle a 4th hashing module out-of-the-box.

The Avalon PSU would be running only 3.5% over its rated capacity with 4 modules. Not great, but it should be able to run 24/7 at least 1 or 2 years at this workload, assuming it is a normal quality PSU rated to run at its full power. The 1- to 2-year lifetime can be derived from the typical 10k hour lifetime of a PSU's electronic components such as capacitors.

nghzang reported a 82% efficiency of the PSU and a 5-20 Watt power consumption for the fans. Therefore:
(620 (Watt at the wall) * .82 (efficiency) - ~10 (Watt for the fans)) / 3 (modules) = 166 Watt at 12V per module

A 4-module Avalon would consume:
166 (Watt per module) * 4 (modules) + 10 (Watt for the fans) = 674 Watt at 12V which is 3.5% higher than 650W

674 Watt at 12V (output) translates, given a .82 efficiency, to 822 Watt at the wall (input), but do not forget that a PSU wattage rating refers to its output power, not input power.

<-- Is hoping for a batch 2 Avalon with 6 module bays.

Where you gonna find a PSU that can power 6 modules?

166W per module + 20W for fans & controller.

6*166W + 20W ~= 1016W DC.  Note the AC load will be higher but ATX PSU are rated by the DC wattage they can deliver not the AC load required to produce that DC load.   A high end PSU like a SeaSonic X1250 (or possibly even X1050) should be able to drive it just fine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151109

One should be looking for a good high quality brand, single massive 12V rail, and power distribution rating that allows ~100% load on 12V rail.  Using some off brand, multi railed junk PSU is a good way to destroy it but SeaSonic 1250s worked fine for me pushing >1000W DC loads (quad 5970s rigs).

Someone running a multi-rig setup should really but running off a dedicated 30A 240V circuit.  Good datacenter PDU with safe locking connector can be found on ebay (i.e. AP9571) so no reason not to do it right.

30A *80% derate * 240V = 5760W AC
1016W DC / 0.92 = 1116W AC * 5 = 5760W AC.

Five 6 module Avalon "could" be powered by a single 30A 240V circuit.  5KW is a lot of heat though so make plans accordingly.

Jeff said his 3 module unit pulls 620W. Take away the 20W for the fans and controller, and you're looking at 200W for each module, not 166W. That means 6 modules is  (6x200 + 20) 1220W. You could run that on a 1250W, but you'd be pushing the limits. You're either looking at a $300-400 PSU, or 2 750W PSUs.

No. DeathAndTaxes is right. He took the 166W from my computation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144648.msg1537338#msg1537338
Basically you fail to take into account the PSU efficiency. For example a 1000W PSU could power 6 modules (100% load), but if it is 82% efficient it would pull 1220W from the wall. All this without exceeding its ratings.

Simple version.  AC vs DC.  I even included DC vs AC in my calculations.  It helps to prevent errors like in your post above.
Measured at the wall = AC load.
Power supplies are rated on DC load.

Ah you guys were right. I was looking at the at the wall numbers as the draw from the PSU numbers. My bad.

It's just a ATX PSU? It should be easy replacable no?

Yes it is just a normal ATX PSU and it should be easily replaceable.

Personally I wish BitSyncom would consider selling just the modules and controllers.  I would gladly supply my own case, fans, and PSU.  Save on the cost and shipping.  Then again as long as they keep selling out within 24 hours I doubt they have much motivation to change what is working. :)

so if i run three 4 module Avalons that would be 4*166W+20W=684W*3=2052W, correct?  would you install a dedicated 30A 240V circuit for that with a 3 plug MOV surge protector?

30A on 240V is over 7KW. If you only need to run 2052W, then 15A would be sufficient

But if you're having an electrician install a new drop from the breaker then check the cost difference. If you ever plan on expanding then don't get a drop that fits your power consumption at the time of purchase. If you're considering 4 Avalons then do yourself the favor and consider that you'll likely continue to expand your mining operation so long as it is profitable.

good suggestions

It would be nice to have a hobby-kit for Avalon modules so people could build custom mining rigs with ASICs. 

They could have sold the modules and controllers even without the heat sinks, to keep the weight down. But I think they have to assemble the systems for final testing anyway, so disassembling is only more work to do for both them and the customer.

I would be genuinely interested to see people start water cooling their modules though. Maybe with geothermal or below ambient cooling. There's not really any need to do that except perhaps if the ASICs can be overclocked or draw less power when cooled. Realistically, though, you'd be stupid to do too much tinkering with it as long as it mines at high return levels. The time for optimising will be when power cost starts catching up with yield.

Does anyone know what circuit your typical electric stove runs off? in north america? specifically Canada?

(*side note, I don't use my stove, but the plug on the front of it seems to run my AC quite nicely ;)

Selling that large box and complete kit killed them on shipping i heard. Should have allowed ppl to get or make their own case, psu, router, etc... Time spent where not needed in my mind.

I see your point.

The problem with that though, is that they'd have to deal with user support and refund requests caused by simply user error if people assemble and install it incorrectly.

What's the limit of units in one Avalon ASIC machine? I know the number 6 has been mentioned before, but is that for the controller hardware, or just for the physical box and PSU. If miners used a high efficiency second hand AC-DC PSU for the telecom or server market it might perhaps be feasible to have 20 modules or so on one PSU. If one just strapped them all to some aluminum siding, that could work as both heat sink and case. Perhaps the high cost hardware in this case would be high amperage DC cables (copper).

If I shipped something that big via UPS just in the USA I reckon it would cost 60 dollars or so.
So to use DHL from China to USA I can see it being 200+ dollars.
Now multiply that by 300. So that is 60,000 dollars one could use to hire a couple of guys to do support for however months it
is needed and come up with a wiki to solve 90% of the problems. That leaves 50 dollars to ship a smaller package. And I cannot
imagine hiring two guys in china with tech/english skills will cost 60K for two months. More like 1K a month per person and that
would probably be hugely generous depending on where they lived.

I dunno. They do have a nice product. Dont get me wrong. But they could have thought it through a bit more and just treated
them like gpus more or less. They could have also sold to many many diff people that way also. Limit 1 per person or what have you.

Just thinking out loud. If they were more transparent from the beginning ppl could have given them suggestions.

Stove circuit in Canada should be 50A @ 240V

i worry about those modules snapping off their mounts inside the case.  i remember someone shipping me a couple of gpu mining rigs with the gpu's pre-mounted.  they got snapped off their mounting screws/plates from the boxes being thrown around by Fedex.  Fedex wouldn't take responsibility for the damage either.

Mmm, true.  Those screws didn't look very big or long.

Hopefully there's something securing the modules at their top ends, but I haven't seen anything in photos.

in my case, the gpu's were plugged into their pci slots and they got ripped out as well.  was a mess all b/c of the weight. and guys like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Sb_r7BKTc

I like your view on this but being that focused made possible to them deliver the first working unit. The main problem is logistics so being open here wouldnt give the gold info up, maybe they were short on people to handle all the inputs. They still are.

OMG.... only bitcoin that makes ppl not eating and mining instead....

oh yeah ordering that pizza, arent you?

meh, I used to be a red-seal chef (I suppose I still am, I don't think my journeyman's certificate expires...) but now I don't cook, I live downtown, 3 or 4 blocks from, well, everything ;) I do eat out a lot (realized I like eating more than cooking) or I'll just get the pre-made salads and sandwiches from the organic store across the street, and yes, of course, the odd pizza now and then  ;D

and holy crap! 50 amps? how do you split that off? like, how can I use that power for various gpu/fpga/asic mining setups? without burning down the house hopefully...  ::)

Hire an electrician?

I managed to figure this out, though with a 30 amp dryer socket in the basement. It's essentially the same with a stovetop socket. If it is a 4 prong socket, you ignore the neutral. Behold my leet mspaint skillz. I also actually built one, and it works great.



https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9768004/mspaint%20dryer%20splitter.png

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9768004/dryer%20splitter.png