Bitcoin Forum

Update on Oct 25th, 2016:

Good news! As promised, A4 LTC miners are in mass production now. Innosilicon starts shipping since Oct 14th based on order sequence. Customer review should hit this forum soon. Folks, stay tuned!

If you order now, we promise delivery within 7 days after payment confirmation.

For those already paid, your orders are being processed, you will get it within a month.

For those who like to place orders for future delivery priority, contact us at zhangq@innosilicon.com.cn and luojm@innosilicon.com.cn or Skype: inno.miner for tracking.

Below are photos of our brand new machines for your reference.


Fraud Alert:
This is to announce that Innosilicon do NOT have a reseller called “Yang Rongdai”.
https://www.asicminermarket.com/
Skype：yangrongdai
Facebook: Simon Yang

Any sales info from him is a fraud.

Recently we have found faked reseller claiming to sell A4 product online.  Please note that the only authorized reseller is Innosilicon itself.

If you want any sales info verified, you can go to our website. Without that correct Innosilicon email address, you take your own risk.

We do NOT have any so-called reseller globally.
Do NOT send money other than Innosilicon account.

-------------------------
Update on Oct 11th, 2016:

We've just updated our official webpages of A4 LTC Miners, with the freshly cooked video of our products.
Please go to http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/14.html
                 http://www.innosilicon.com/html/mining-asic/15.html for your reference.

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Update on July 1st, 2016:

World Most Profitable A4 Dominator Miner is coming soon! Early batch goes fast with best efficiency ever and very limited quantity, and who are the lucky ones to get the access to the first batch will, with no doubt, enjoy the early gain before anybody else, that means big profit.

Pre-order price: 1800 USD per unit plus shipping fee, 5 units to start

Estimated delivery time: Starts from August and max delay is one month.

Warrantee: 45 days parts warranty

Specifications:

• Part Number: INNOSILICON A4 Dominator 280Mhs per unit (+-10% performance, can be over-clocked at user's risk)
• Size: Length 28cm * Width 12.8cm * Height 25cm
• Net weight: 11KG (without PSU)
• ASIC: A4, 80pcs
• Blade: 4pcs
• Voltage: +12V
• Power efficiency: Initial batch will be defaulted at 3.2W/Mhs in Turbo mode, 2.2W/Mhs in Norminal mode, and 1.35W/Mhs in ultra low power mode
• Required rated PSU: 1000W or above, 8 * PCI-E 6Pin
  PSU is external and exclusive to save your international shipping cost, which can be acquired used easily at low cost or reused from old version miners.
• Included: Raspberry Pi, it is plug and play with your PSU

For interested parties, please contact us via email account: sales@innosilicon.com, zhangq@innosilicon.com.cn CC: sales@innosilicon.com.cn with your pre-order volume and shipment location info, we will feedback you with the payment instruction and pre-order confirmation. You can also contact our technical support via Skype: inno.miner for tracking. Due to limited supply of first batch, it will be offered at 1st come, 1st served pre-order approach. Shipping and handling is extra and user will be encouraged to arrange its own pickup/shipping or being charged based on DHL rate if shipping is handled by Innosilicon.

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Innosilicon, the global leader in Bitcoin and Litecoin ASIC solutions, proudly announces that the world 1st 14nm A4 Dominator ASIC has passed sample test and is ready for mass shipment in 2 months.

With more than quadruple the power efficiency over the previous generation, A4 ASIC offers up to 4Mhs per chip LTC hash power with as low as 1.5W/MHs power consumption. This will allow for next gen A4 based scrypt miners reaching 400MHs to 500Mhs hash power per box. This performance puts A4 product head and shoulder above other miners as the most profitable mining server in the world. Nothing can touch the well-crafted A4 Dominator performance in the next 2 years! A4 ASIC/Miners are ready for pre-order now and shipping starts in July 2016.

A4 Dominator is a full custom optimized for power & reliability in the world’s most advanced 14nm process, with tremendously proven advantage over any 28nm nodes. In addition, newly added system reliability features that allow for maximized performance under any condition, such as automatic temperature and frequency control, as well as DCDC-less automatic on-board chip pass/fail self-test, maximize system performance and avoid heat damage.

The A4 Dominator ASIC, priced at discounted $12 per chip for early birds, will continue the fantastic A2 Terminator legacy in serving our mining community. With the unbeatable price and performance, A4 Dominator ASIC/Miner will revolutionize how we mine coins for the years to come.


To order: please contact us via email account: sales@innosilicon.com, zhangq@innosilicon.com.cn CC: sales@innosilicon.com.cn with your pre-order volume and shipment location info, we will feedback you with the pre-order price, payment instruction, and pre-order confirmation. You can also contact our technical support via Skype: inno.miner for tracking. Due to limited supply of first batch, it will be offered at 1st come, 1st served pre-ordered approach. Shipping and handling is extra and user will be encouraged to arrange its own pickup/shipping or being charged based on DHL rate if shipping is handled by Innosilicon.

Innosilicon Marketing

I'm interested, sent an e-mail, confused on the actual price due to difference in range.

Using information found here http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/13.html


This breaks down to somewhere between 115 to 143 chips in an A4.

At $12 per chip the effective estimated price range is $1380 to $1716 depending on whether or not its 400MH or 500MH.

Hope that's accurate because if it is, super exciting news.

What is the minimum order quantity?

Not so exciting for most people. Litecoin mining is not very popular as the price is not going higher. If they produce a Ethereum chip, more people will be interested.

How are we suppposed to give a pre-order quantity when we have ZERO CLUE what the price is on the miners?

 This is TOTALLY BACKWARDS.

I have sent an email, I am interested.

Wonder what this means for KNC Titan owners this is a little sooner than I expected

I sent an email but this is really an odd way to sell something, maybe I missed it but was there a data sheet out? use the same software? just interface it and go with the old cgminer. At $12 a chip if I didn't have to buy 10k of them would be cool, just when I started working on a way to software control the voltage on the A2 boards.

They have some basic specs out on the chip, very little available on the miner itself yet.

 Why worry about cgminer, the A2 Terminator units were self-contained and from what I've seen the A4 is also self-contained (possibly might be "add power supply" like the Farm Boys") and appears to be based on the A2 design.

 Titans should continue to be profitable for a while - and if you own a Titan and it's not achieved ROI by now, you're in trouble anyway or it was one of the many that had cores die young.


 Probability of an Ethereum ASIC is basically ZERO - by the time someone could get one designed and into production, ETH will probably have gone POS or will only have a VERY FEW MONTHS left before it does go POS leaving way too short a time to achieve ROI on an ETH ASIC miner.

Yeah I sent them an email just to see if I'd get a reply. They got right back to me and asked 'how many'


I said TWO (should have said 20 duh just to get some replies) and they have ignored my other 2 emails since :)

too small fry ..they are chasing IPO and big miner $$$ without a lot of success imho

BUT they make other chips..not just asic's for ltc or btc...THUS the IPO $$$ was for making 14nm chips

if they DO get IPO $$ it is a win/win/win for them in

1) investors paid for 14nm equipment needed to make these scrypt miners and such equip can be used to make other 14nm chips by their firm (non-crypto)

2) they can build their data hall first using the above equipment and a much lower cost per chip and cost to mine them as a data hall

3) the 2 things above 'if successful' would be something to point to to get a) more IPO $$ or b) pursue 'bulk sales' of these 14nm chips to other data halls for equip

So my 'guess' is the A4 Dominator will be a limited run in that why sell a bunch and water down the $$$ made by your data hall miner operation with a lot of home miner users

they will make a few to show stuff exists (like sfards) but the main thrust imho if I am right was the expansion of equipment needed for their biz of 14nm chips

and their own data hall mining such (and no one else) till such point they go to bulk chip sales and move on..probably months later

I'm betting also the A4 Dominators or the relatively 'few' that will be available for 'pre-order' will run about $4k at the least...

we will see how close i am

supposedly this A4 Dominator is supposed to hit the 'world' in July 2016....looking a lot like butterfly labs vaporware at this point ....at least to the 'masses'

Interesting approach, I said I wanted ONE in my e-mail that was sent within minutes after my post, I still haven't got a reply.

Guess this is another confirmation of who they are after.

I guess I was just wondering if I bought some ASICs how would I make them work, I can build boards and design hardware, I am sure the A4 miners will be a good to go item but , at least me when I am thinking about designing something from the ground up having a little more info.

I didnt get a reply either to me email... go figure

the first email I asked if i could get miners....they came back and said how many...i said 2 (should have said 20 to keep it going) last email I got :)

so yeah...you saying 1 right off..does seem to be the view "go away small fishy..we only want whales"

Ha, I don't know why but I thought we were buying ASICs, I had just asked for info in the email, I was looking at getting like 200, I guess if they had though 200 complete miners been right on it.

I had no response so far, I only wanted 1 or 2... Is this only for chips? Who could turn them into mining rigs for us?

Looks like we shouldn't retire the titans just yet :)

No I think it is for complete miners, but they listed the asic price and left us all guessing, I was thinking it was for ASICs and I was going to design my own hardware but I'd guess that has already been done. After we add a case , heatsinks PCB costs and shipping I'd say 2.5 to 3k in costs would be a good guess.I just like building things.

Scrypt gear is never cheap. Especially when they are the only manufacture. I am guessing about a year ROI time.

I havn't had a response yet though

IF they play this like most...big ass 'self-funded' IPO $$$ data center mining scrypt (like knc did with their 14nm btc chip never released it kept it for themselves) and very very few A4 Dominator units just to wave the flag that their equip really exists and thus flag more folk to invest in their data center farming...ie more newbie IPO $$$ much more cash then a group of newbie home miners of scrypt.

rinse/wash/repeat

A year is about right. Likely won't ROI in a year ...but I'd guess the same....the big svings is in their internal data hall mining scrypt

 To the best of my knowlage, Innosilicon doesn't HAVE a datahall.

 They also don't NEED an "IPO" - they have a long-established chip making business that appears to be quite profitible on it's own ALREADY.

 On the other hand, they probably are pushing for initial sales to large farms and resellers like Zoomhash.

 There is no real evidence that KNC ever deployed a significant amount of their "Solar" chip in quantity - at most, they managed to deploy enough of it to replace older miners and little if any more, since their block find rate never demonstrated a significant jump.

 The Alcheminer folks have announced they're working on a "next gen" chip/miner, but no idea how far along they are on it - Innosilicon MIGHT end up with competition again in Scrypt eventually.


 I sent an email asking about even APPROXIMATE miner pricing, specifying that I couldn't say "how many" without a PRICE. No reply yet, but that might be in part explained by the weekend.

well ...i stand corrected...i really doubt they will not have a large data hal if they are the ONLY maker of chips ..don't ya know....and yeah they won't need IPO $$ if what you say is
true ..why bother if they can self finance all of the stuff

alcheminer I was told on another thread is 'kaput' they were the ones asking for IPO $$$ .but again the 'rumor' was they are out of it

could be true on the KNC solar chip stuff...they were LATE on that chip as well had problems...and they did use IPO $$$ may have dried up

yeah they don't reply to emails anymore (innsilicon) or at least to ME for $$$ for units ....maybe I hit the 'small fry' list :)

Again I'd bet they will have a data center ...I mean if you are the only game in town why not....they could flood the market with miners and bulk chips for a big flash for say
7 months or so..but why do that when you could play the game like my Titans have played..and gone on for an extra year or so mining....just do enough 'sales' and equip
for the data center to mine scrypt ..say LTC...bump the LTC difficulty up 20% say.....and you can ride that as the big dog in the network for a long long time

but they could just blow the doors off of difficulty and offer miners/their own hall/ and bulk chip sales....get in get out while the $$$ are good...guess that would depend
on scrypt prices and maybe if they thought they could pull a next gen scrypt chip out in the future when that kinda puttered out

(the ways of crypto are mysterious to me)

anyway the alchiminer may be a rumor..but if so it is a common rumor they are in trouble and out of the game for new miner/chips (could be wrong)

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

Not saying that is a trend on a limit or delay on when a guy could get individual units, but it

Seems to be pivoting towards that General Direction. In a hand pointing ....this way kind of gesture 😄

Ah i guess I was really being silly to think that was a possibility in the first place, I guess I'll just have to wait for someone to leak it out. Oh well back to monkeying with my A2s.

I remember seeing a listing on Alibaba at one point, probably from a Google search, at somewhat over $4k - but it was a reseller, not Innosilicon themselves.

 Guess I get to wait for Zoomhash to start reselling them (I am 10 Sigma certain Zoomhash was one of Innosilicon's "partners").


 I'm also going to be VERY curious to see how their announced "A2 upgrade" stuff works out.


 I suspect Innosilicon will start selling to individuals eventually, but they want to get the "big batch" orders first to pay for development.

Well it is common to get a used (protected by paypal and credit card) KNC Titan 350mh on Ebay for about 2.5-3k and it is 1250 watts. The A4 is supposedly (?) 400mh and 1150 watts.

I managed to SPLIT one off a Titan on ebay auction in an epic UNICORN HUNT! that worked as advertised full out and NEW ..buy it NOW no less...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Titan-Scrypt-Miner-Package-/131792974267?hash=item1eaf7931bb:g:AQIAAOSwKfVXHr2z (http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Titan-Scrypt-Miner-Package-/131792974267?hash=item1eaf7931bb:g:AQIAAOSwKfVXHr2z)


Yeah $1,825.00 usd with my 1/2 of shipping added. IT WAS REALLY NEW (sheesh.....November 2014 unit). Both units were. Both work full out as well.


So figuring halving is coming up for BTC (folk mine LTC to BTC) and the fact SUMMER is coming in force....I'd expect you will see a lot of Titans for sale coming up

before JULY.

ie makes more sense imho to buy them with paypal protection..then a PRE-ORDER with 90 day warranty for 4k ..even if burnt on your Titan paypal protection on ebay

not to mention we have folk that CAN fix them for reasonable prices (see btctalk thread)

Then again  a PRICE PUMP in BTC and LTC follows in its 'Yoshi to Mario" like maner...and I may get an A4 for 4k also....it all depends....don't ya know....but that would be quite the pump for me to jump in at that price.


thats the gamble thou.....$4k for an A4 at current prices it would take me at 14c kwh and their 1150 watts at 400mh at $4 buck LTC

using this free calc to all on litecoinpool (modifiable)

www.litecoinpool.org/calc (http://www.litecoinpool.org/calc)

I get the following

30 days   128.30273438 LTC   513.21 USD            Total        115.92 USD      Electric         397.29 USD   Profit after


but I'd take the specs with a grain of salt their A2 Terminator did not (or had to work at it) to get 110 mh..most did less and they also used more watts..It is more realistic to expect
that an A4 would be equiv say 375mh and 1250 watts say....then their specs...*used above*


So at the SAME difficulty and the SAME  price per LTC it would take me about 10.0682 months...add a very modest difficulty increase and price increase etc...say 12 months.

Would be kinda a wash even if you got a full working to the wall 350mh Titan today for 2.5k and shipping

Then again never say never


$650 usd at an exchange of 0.008 (currently 0.009) ...but anyway say 0.008 that is $5.20 LTC...with that these numbers look a lot better (depending on how flooded with bulk chip sales..and A4 Dominators are produced...and such thou)

crypto always the drama!

The difference is that the Titans are used units with a LONG HISTORY of having cores die frequently, while the Innosilicon A2 was arguably the most stable and rock-solid miner ever built (the LKetc Dragon models it was based on CAN argue that point).

 The only advantage the Titans ever had over the A2 was their efficiency - but Litecoin never dropped far enough for A2s to become unprofitable unless you had very HIGH electric cost.


 *YET*


 That should change eventually if enough A4 units get sold.

Don't disagree..but the Titans had a year warranty and now you have a good shot with gen tarkins 3rd party firmware and lightfoot's fixing of such to have SOME protection...my main point is that IF they Innsilicon ships to the big guys say in JULY then MAYBE you could see these units in SEPT..for a say 4K price..even USED the Titans are a better risk AT THIS POINT IN TIME before they crank up the difficulty etc by say Sept. Remember a used Titan legit sale at say 325 to 350 used....for 2500 bucks is a 1.5k discount on such a gamble vs 90 days on a pre-order of an A4 that COULD have the same issues as KNC with new 14nm chips....(who knows ..just tossing this out there) and maybe only getting your hands on one as a pre-order at 4k in say if really lucky ...imho...the middle of Sept! (DAMN.....)

You should probably JUST buy crypto (ltc or btc or whatever) and hold it..and not get any equip...I'm just saying if you are hell bent on getting a scrypt miner..you may want to weigh the options I mention.

(then again I drank the BFL kool aid at one time..so take any advice I give with a grain of salt) :)

But 4k imho by the time they get them out after pre-order (assuming you could do so in July) and only 90 day warranty...and again ALL these units of the past of various companies have had firmware issues the first 3 months ..from what I've seen from various asic companies of any stripe btc or ltc in the past....so my view is they 'kinda' get the firmware working the first 3 months...and no real improvements thereafter ..usually because they SOLD all the stuff at the front end (out of stock or so in the past) and thus everyone drops out of warranty at the same time (again this is historical and and assumes a limited number of first run units ...to limit their risk...better to sell out all guick)



Tough odds at 4k imho.  IF it was say 2.5k maybe.....for the 'toy' factor (ie if it don't roi you say to self it was a 'toy' to protect ego lol) :)

But as you point out with the issues of Titans and not working with pools or multipool the first 3 months and firmware issues etc on a 90 day warranty....man......that may be  too much pucker factor for me to take (and I'm not looking at an A4 just as a disclaimer) just gives me the shudders on the above if I was to dump 4k on one.

Innosilicon has never sold directly to customers wanting small quantities (iirc a minimum of 10 units for A2 machines). Moreover, their asics have never been cheap in price or quality, so they are likely trying to get as much as possible (perhaps so much that they rather not publicly post a price at this point, or the price varies depending on the offer + amount). Right now ~80% of the ltc network is mined by Chinese pools, so if you are outside of China with a stack of these machines you will still be at a disadvantage.

 They've said the miners would be 400-500 MH - and as it happens, the only A2 Mega units I have that are NOT seeing 108-111 MH consistantly I don't trust the power supplies enough to push that hard.

 The power specs on the A2s DID tend to be a bit optimistic sometimes - manufacturing variances I'd guess - but they generally hit the rated hashrate pretty closely if you clocked them that way.


 I still prefer the proven RELIABILITY of Innosilicon designs to date over anyone else in the Cryptomining ASIC field that sold gear to the public.

 Actually, they have - their Farm Boys were pretty much ALL sold direct-to-customer in small quantities, and the later runs of the other A2 units were as well.

 With that said, they DID do "dealer and big farm only" sales for a while - I suspect they plan to follow the same successfull model with the A4, though the "partners" are an added twist that will probably soak a big chunk of the first batch.



 BTW - don't tell Zoomhash they're at a disadvantage, I'm sure they've been selling off a bunch of their used A2 units out of their farm for months for a REASON - despite having VERY VERY cheap electric in the area that farm is in.

I hope someone does some sort of Group buy on these in a few months if they won't sell to individuals.

 Really would like to have (1) A4 Dominator ...

I agree my A2 hardware has been pretty strong, I have modified them a lot and redone about everything with them. Your right out of the box I couldn't get near 110 a few mods and depending on power I can get one to get close to 118 pretty decently

Any update when and where we can buy A4?

I'd expect sometime in Sept .....in that all the miners will go to the folk that are currently on the pre-order list for orders over 100k which is their current cut off I guess

tough...if a lot buy and kick up difficulty for data halls etc.....esp if in that Sept time frame it is still 4k a unit at 400mh and 1150 watts...just saying

anyway how this stuff usually works....above...is my guess

 Only reason I'm not pushing my megas to 110 across the board (they're all CAPABLE of 109-111 range at the 1200Mhz setting) is that I don't trust the "stock" power supply in 1 of them. 2 already got X1250 transplants (one had a PS die on me, the other I couldn't figure out WHAT it was rated at). The 4'th one had a 1300 Gold in it already when I bought it from Zoomhash - apparently it ALREADY had it's stock power supply death before it got to me. 8-)

Yea the stock PSUs are just barely enough to make them work, I had to upgrade them to go much beyond stock

Do we have an experienced group buy manager interested in contacting them? If the price is under $2000, we should be able to get 20+ units worth of interest.

Do you want to invest money from 20+ into 2 pics made in Photoshop?

I don't think they feel obligated at this point to prove to us they have anything.  They are looking for big fish.
And it's not like this is not an established company with a history.  I'm not saying that's scam-proof.  Just that it's not your run of the mill super shady manufacturer.
The better the product, the later we will find out details.  I am just suggesting we pool buying power.  Then maybe we can learn more.

 Innosilicon has a very good record of actually DELIVERING - with something in the ballpark of the specs they announce for their gear when it goes up for sale.
 They appear to have badly missed their INITIAL preliminary specs from last winter - but Bitfury arguably did so as well, since they were claiming .06 J/GH efficiency for THEIR chip at one point but it can only meet that claim at a VERY LOW voltage/hashrate - and Innosilicon DID claim their estimates from last winter were just that, preliminary ESTIMATES based on pre-production "tape out" chips or some such.

Had someone on here I know say he got an email saying they are not anywhere near production models yet....thus he figured FALL at the latest...of course this is not any indication
of bulk chip sales or other sales to data halls say that DON'T need a production based box unit etc like the A4 pics suggest..anyway asked him to post the email reply here...we will see
if he does that ....

If true ...it is quite common for ASIC manufacturers to miss their launch date by at least 3 months..just saying...at these LTC prices just gives some more manufacturers time
to play catch up I guess (assuming anyone is even playing these scrypt machine/chips/etc war games anymore at a home miner or base unit (A4) and not chips and/or their
own data hall in house ..that boat may have sailed....ie here are a few units and the majority is bulk chips to the china scrypt miners..ie enjoy :)

anyway my guess is FALL at earliest we will see one of these units for sale (A4's) gonna have to watch LTC difficulty to see if bulk chip sales or 'big boys' getting units first
ramp up the LTC difficulty per say....but I wonder how much is gonna be A4 units and how much is just gonna be bulk chip sales to china scrypt big miner farms at this point in time

again I know 'zip' just speculating...(not the email that exists) ..anyway we will see if my buddy gets around to posting innsilicon's reply on here soon ...I'll plod him again if not....

Do you guys really think they have 14nm chips? No bitcoin miner has it yet. AFAIK only Inter, Samsung and Apple use 14nm chips (I might be wrong). It is quite a gamble to develop 14nm chip for scrypt.

I think they do... the only problem they have is they don't want to develop it with their own money...and investors are wary to end up the same like bitmine whoever the swiss guy is :D

 LK-1401 (BW.COM) has reportedly been in production and in miners for a month or two already - just no better efficiency than the Bitmain S7 / BM1385.

 BW.COM has also been paying off on the contracts for those miners for a while now, and has been showing the hashrate that they probably have the miners they claim to have.


 Keep in mind the BW.COM might be new, but LKEtc that part-owns BW.COM is NOT new.


 Bitfury demonstrated their 14nm chip in a series of videos almost 2 months back.


 I also suspect that Innosilicon DID get some "partners" as a result of that offering they made last year - and I'd BET I can name one of those partners.


 Will they meet July to ship miners to non-partner end-users? Dunno. Will they ship before fall? That I'd BET on.


 Oops, just noticed one more thing. *S9* ships mid-June.

 So much for your "no Bitcoin chip has 14nm" claim.

Bitfury has 16nm, Bitmain has 16nm. BW claims to have 14nm (I believe when I see it). Also, Black Arrow had similar claims in 2014...

The only difference between "14nm" and "16nm" seems to be marketing and minor implimentation details between Global Foundrys and TSMC (and Intel which doesn't sell capasity to anyone else - I could also specify Samsung but they're allied with one of the others using the SAME process) - which is why I've tended to refer to the "14/16nm" generation.
It's interesting that NVidia has specified it is qualifying (or has qualified by now, IIRC they stated "2Q 2016" for the designs to be qualified on both) it's 10xx series products for production on BOTH process nodes - apparently with no change in their specifications, indicating the actual performance is pretty close to identical.


 There is a major difference between Innosilicon (among others), with a PROVEN TRACK RECORD of delivering their claims and a long corporate history in semiconductor manufacture and design before Bitcoin existed, vs. a company like Black Arrow that never did make good on all of their claims and was very very late on what little they DID eventually deliver and didn't even exist when Bitcoin first came to be.



 On a more important point, got a reply to my email inquiry about A4 pricing today.

 "

Thanks for your interest! The pre-order price of A4 miner is not determined yet. Please stay tuned.

 

Best regards,

Chloe Zhang

+86 18040500320

Innosilicon Technology Ltd."


*SIGH*

I'm even more sure the price is gonna be 4k for the miner..if not more so with the btc/ltc price hikes...just saying....we will see I guess.

Thanks for the very good reply!

email response from Innosilicon  (A4 miners is open for pre-order now at price of 1800 USD per unit plus shipping fee, 10 units to start, with about 1000W per 260Mhs (+-10% performance variation) each and 30 days parts warranty. Delivery starts from September and max delay is one month.) you would need an order of at least 10 on first come first served, very limited quantities. It is out of my ability to buy right now, just thought I would pass the info on.

Is this right? The specs are way worse than Titan's...

Thanks for the info.  I don't know why they didn't post here to inform us they had opened up the preorders.  Those equip specs are pretty far off what they started with, and not a HUGE improvement over those numbers from a Titan.  I  fired another email off to them to get some details.   Hopefully they have some video posted showing the new A4 running and can provide more info.  30 day warranty?????? Seriously 30 days?

I addressed this in the other A4 thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1251930.msg15301945#msg15301945 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1251930.msg15301945#msg15301945)


Assuming my math is correct (big assumption) you would be hard pressed to find a 350mh used titan that goes full out. So using a full out maybe at 325mh Titan
it comes out as a wash power vs mh imho

The 30 day warranty kinda goes beyond sucky. I like the Sept Shipping plus or minus a month...ie BFL used to claim it in the manner Sept 31 to Oct 31 kinda deal
all asic's all the time are one month late...its like an ironclad rule don't ya know :)

but man they could sell like toasters and blow up difficulty like bitcoin  ....and of course their goal is to sell them like toasters (damn it) :(

We are presently working on a group buy.  Here is the thread that I started for those interested in getting in on the pre-order group buy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1523298.0

We received an update from Innosilicon regarding the availability of the A4.  Here are the latest specs and info regarding the current batch 1 pre-order:

Update: World Most Profitable A4 Dominator Miner is coming soon! Early batch goes fast with best efficiency ever and very limited quantity, and who are the lucky ones to get the access to the first batch will, with no doubt, enjoy the early gain before anybody else, that means big profit.
 
Pre-order price: 1800 USD per unit plus shipping fee, 5 units to start
 
Estimated delivery time: Starts from August and max delay is one month.
 
Warrantee: 45 days parts warranty
 
Specifications:
l  Part Number: INNOSILICON A4 Dominator 280Mhs per unit (+-10% performance, can be over-clocked at user's risk)
l  Size: Length 28cm * Width 12.8cm * Height 25cm
l  Net weight: 11KG (without PSU)
l  ASIC: A4, 80pcs
l  Blade: 4pcs
l  Voltage: +12V
l  Power efficiency: Initial batch will be defaulted at 3.2W/Mhs in Turbo mode, 2.2W/Mhs in Norminal mode, and 1.35W/Mhs in ultra low power mode
l  Required rated PSU: 1000W or above, 8 * PCI-E 6Pin
PSU is external and exclusive to save your international shipping cost, which can be acquired used easily at low cost or reused from old version miners.
l  Included: Raspberry Pi, it is plug and play with your PSU

If you would like to know about the group buy we are organizing you can find that thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1523298.40

Anyone concerned that this company now has just a cell phone as their company phone line in China and also in Toronto? 

How do they transfer calls to different employees?  Oh maybe by passing the cell phone around?  LOL

RED FLAG to me.

Looks like we will find out soon enough.  The target ship date is August at the moment with a possible delay into September.  For those of us who have already placed our order I guess we will be the "test subjects". 

That would be really bad if they went under, .Innosilicon was very solid up till now if that's the case if no A4 comes i can only think how much more the script miners we have now will increases in price including the old Zeus Miners of which the older ones have some but with no one making any but good kind of i guess you won't have to worry to much about upgrading and can keep using those A2 and titans and Alchemist and still make a lot .

I guess there is no money in it hardware wise like there is with sha256 miners no one makes one if they do they have turned out so far to be one big scam  or go bankrupt  and if Innosilicon dies same thing, mining seems good . just getting new hardware not used for script mining is hard if not impossible.

I think BW makes a scrpt chip but they won't share it :(.

Bad but not uncommon. If they were well funded they would not be doing preorder.

I doubt BW (which is part-owned by LKetc of Dragon miner fame) has any interest in Scrypt - if they DID, they could have been making Scrypt miners years ago, given their close relationship for a long while with Innosilicon.

Good luck recovering your money from the Chinese  :'( :'(
No cash -->no production of A4 miner  ;D ;D

eBay sellers often get things wrong - of those 3 links you posted, ALL are Gridseed designs NOT LKEtc.

 I HAD forgotten that they had a LTC pool though.

How many A4 was shipped?  ;D

Seems like some people forgot the golden rule of crypto.

Pre-Order = NO order

They just took the bitcoins from the pre-orders and they run  ;D ;D

So we have an update.  Looks like testing is completed on the A4 miner.  Inno is stating they will be recording a video some time next week.  They are telling us that the pre-order miners will start to ship by the end of the month.  So looks like things are still on track.

Pre - order went just fine with KNC.
But I'd be very cautious every time, sure.

LTC hashrate and difficulty has been more or less table the last 30 days. If they are doing testing it seems they are not deploying 1000 rigs and "testing" with the pre-ordered units.

I suspect we may have some teething pains in this first batch of miners, sorting out software and hardware issues etc.  We will find out soon enough.  Fairly normal stuff, just frustrating to be the early adopter.

You'll be surprised how much more testing we've done compared to previous A2 batch. PS: It really works right away considering all the previous experience and inherited architecture from the previous A2 generation. In short, it works well right away! Stay tuned for the new machines soon. BTW, we have posted latest product testing video on our website, Thanks!

Come on, I want you to be more positive. We are running full 1st batch production now after vigorous testing. Pre-order customers will start to receive products in the next 2 weeks. You will see Innosilicon is damn serious in fulfilling our promises. Product update video can be seen in our website. No joke.

You bet! thanks for being patient. We won't ship craps for sure.

Shipping this month simply due to stupid packaging house issues, we have chips in August but found a few things for better reliability on the packaging side, Chips never in doubt, but product has to be bullet proof before shippment, that is why. But now all is good after reliability test, so production news is out already.

Thanks for organizing the group buy, mass production starts already after resolving packaging issues. We will ship miners very shortly (as soon as next week) for pre-order customers based on order sequence. We won't let any customer down and the product work very very well. Pre-order customer will no doubt enjoy good time advantages. Time is money and miners are in short supply. Video can be seen on our website,

'You will see Innosilicon is damn serious in fulfilling our promises.'
Are you joking or are you serious now ? You announced 500mhs miner at 1000w and you reproduce the A2 at 130Mhs
So you just care how to make money and not about your investors if they are any  ;D
11KG ? this is a step in front ? did you see Baikal miner ? 

 Delays of more than a YEAR = "just fine"?

 Interesting concept that - and I'm not even going to START on the many other issues with KNC that drove them to bankrupcy despite their own in-house massive mining efforts.

Got to say from the specs on these units...gonna take a 'massive amount" to upend my Titan apple carts.......just saying....I suppose if enough of them work for a year and flood the market.

looks now like spec wise it is pretty much oranges vs oranges eff and mhs wise all in all

the main advantage with a Titan right now is if one of 5 cubes goes you still have 4 cubes (and hopefully lightfoot to fix the broke one) ..with the A4 if the board goes after

45 days you are skunked...(again unless lightfoot changes vendors)

Still,  if you believe in an eventual BTC pump to 800 bucks plus and LTC or scrypt coins to follow ..you could get one of these for a gamble ..but right how using this calc

www.lightcoinpool.org (http://www.lightcoinpool.org)

I get a bit less than a year ROI at 12c kwh (winter 11c and summer 14c kwh ave) ...so the gamble is on a pump an mining paying off I guess

Then again an 800 buck BTC pump with LTC at 0006 btc to usd would be 4.80 usd LTC

one of these miners COULD climb out of that hole even with difficulty...but again if they flood the market even at the above rate would probably again reset to s year ROI anyway

As with all mining hardware, pricing on these is a horrible ripoff.     But... at least its a tiny bit better than anything in SHA land. For now, I have no plans on buying an A4 ... 1 year to *maybe* ROI is insane.

Have you ever even read our presale announcement? Our miner spec is 280Mhs per a4 miner if you follow our pre order announcement, 500mhs a4 miner needs a lot more chips at a different price.

Just a reminder: fact speaks louder. Biggest a2 miner ever available was 110mhs, yet a4 miner starts at 280mhs with a 25% smaller power supply, come on, get the fact straight! a4 is a completely different animal with more than 3 times efficiency, not to say more power saving can be achieved with just a software control at lower voltage. If you want 500mhs miner, buy 2 a4 miners and drop voltage and clock rate, you can squeeze 500mhs with one power supply.

Follow your logics: each 14nm a4 miner has 2 units and 4 boards, any board goes, others will work! Even after 45 days warranty, it still can be repaired at a reasonable cost. It has more than 3 times power efficient than bankrupted knc Titian.  A4 is the next gen, best ever. 

Innosilicon A2 was the most reliable miners in the ltc market and A4 will be a few times better, wait and see! 

Less talk and more shipping of miners  ;D ;D ;D

The web site update is talking about A4's that will hash at a much higher rate than 280mhs of batch 1.  Is that going to be part of batch 2?  We have heard dates of Dec as batch 2.  Is that correct? Thanks.

With gen trakin 3rd party firmware I get 300mh at 1225 watts so hardly that big a diff at 280mh at 1100 watts .......big whoop.....my Titans can run just fine with
your equipment into the future at that spread.....main problem is electric prices to the wall ..in USA 12c kwh is average..mine is 14c kwh...that is real issue with home mining

I was mistaken on the amount of A4 boards involved however.....how what is pricing for repair of 'likely' troubles on such boards after 45 days ...ship them back to china or any electronics
tech in the states MAYBE LIKELY  to fix any issues? Pointing out likely fail points and 3rd party electronics technicans ahead of time and LIKELY STUFF to fail and LIKELY it could
be repaired reasonably by folk other then A4's being shipped back to China .might go a long way to help your sales....

 I'd believe your hype a lot better at 180 days for a warranty rather then 45 days..that is pretty lame imho.....does not show a lot of confidence in your equipment consumer wise
again my view..

good luck anyway my stuff has all ROI'd so hopefully even with a 25% difficulty rise or more  in LTC and/or scrypt coins with more equipment in the world a BTC and hopefully LTC and other scrypt coin, a pump in price is really what we need (or you need) to get over the A4's over 12 month ROI hurdle....

IF such a pump happens in the next few months then ...all is said and done it won't matter much....right now the 1 year plus ROI looks kinda tough thou LTC wise so I guess everyones bet (titan A4 or whatever) the price of LTC and scrypt coins makes purchasing most scrypt equipment a shaky bet at the present time

We will just have to see if your product hangs together or has teething issues like MOST ASIC machines either BTC or LTC did...ie 3 months of firmware issues etc etc bad dies etc etc

so anyway 45 day warranty is really what stops me from getting your product ..at least one.....so I'll fence sit for now ...and see how you do out of the gate...if as I said above

we get some price increases in scrypt coins and ltc in the next few months...I'll look at this again...anyway my 2c worth

(but then again what do I know at one time I drank the BFL Kool Aid.....got a refund..but still was on the bandwagon don't ya know)



is a price pump to keep the gerbel wheels moving on mining :)

Given the A4 specs a "1000 watt power supply", which will probably be pulling somewhat less than that in actual usage, where the HELL are you comming up with that 1100 watt claim?


 Yes, the Titans are fairly close on efficiency - they'll probably stay profitable for the forseable future unless you have REAL high electric rates - but they're not nearly as close on efficiency as you seem to think, *AND* their track record of many dead cubes makes their reliability very suspect while the A2 was rock solid for almost EVERYONE that ever used one.


 I can see a day, probably in the next 2 years likely less, when the A2 becomed non-profitable at 3c/KWH electric and the Scrypt miner market becomes basically a 2 horse race betwen the A4 and Titan - but those Titans that are still running by then will definitely be the LAGGING horse in the race.

I thought the new specs on the A4 were now 1100 watts at 280 mh.....I thought it was stated as such in the threads ...also a price of 2100 bucks now ? I'm also not sure
if the group buy is still going on? Feel free to correct me ..but the figures I was working with



Point taken...but with gen tarkin 3rd party firmware and other mods (maxumark bracket..copper heatsinks replacement on all dc/dc's and gellin extreme thermal repasting) they will very likely go 2 more years now..the stuff has NEVER been as stable or run as good

my stuff is running now with above on dc/dc's 10c to 15c less tempature with the copper heatsinks and a 3000 rpm fan vs their 1500 rpm fan (20% more noise) and also there is a lot of folk

that can fix and revive cubes.....now In other words my temps etc and stability have never been better ....after the above mods I was running the ones I have here in the basement

at lower temps when it was 84F this summer then the previous winter at 60F.....I actually gained 50mh total plus on the conversion...the dies that are down are still down but now all else

the last 6 months is solid it seems (again to your point working around some dies that are down)

Then again used Titan equipment (if it ever shows its unicorn hoofs again) might be more of a risk then the A4 ..people tend to move the shaky stuff in used asic's etc and to your point
you are not sure what you are getting and it is over priced...probably because the stuff for sale is unmofied (from what I've seen) and thus let the bidding wars begin from those
who know how to fix/tweak them above

But the point of failure on folks running Titans now has improved from the above hacks dramatically imho for extending the life of the units...hr and 1/2 mainly due to lightfoots fix of such and gen tarkin's firmware....the mods are damn helpful for long term life too temp wise decrease

Hopefully a community of cooperation etc will come up for your A4's as they chug along..and extend improve their life too as time goes on...but working great for me so far

So you are correct Titans WERE flaky and had issues in 2014 (nov in my case 2 dead dies on orig unit) BUT (not counting the summer knc liquidation yeech) IF you have a Titan that works now very likely it iis over the hump and will work just fine for the next 2 years...especially with the gen tarkin firmware and repasting all mentioned above

As an example I have a buddy with 40 titans or so that are rock solid (some modded some not) you can work around the dead dies on some and the rest is stable

heck I may even get some of my problem dies fixed by lightfoot (dare to dream have enough hash now I can send in some 1/2 working stuff for the heck of it on a hope)

Anyway all the Titan stuff that has junked out has probably been that way for the last year....the shot stuff is off the market whatever the amount that is from 2 years on
..there is new life in them now ....at least it seems so from my side and my buddy with above mods

HOPEFULLY your A4 will also be solid like the A2......I may still get one or two...(with my hash that is 1 month hashing lost to pay off an A4) But likely I will wait

see if the warranty improves or how the firmware is etc..if it costs me 200-300 more a unit and I lose some too difficulty by waiting a month or two .. so be it...but even if the A4 was golden child....at a  12 month plus ROI right now and again that pesky 45 day warranty ..I'd likely wait anyway ......as to folk the must/need/want to jump into scrypt mining in a big way

and get multiple A4's on a price pump hope of BTC and say LTC floating along onward and upward..tough choice...I did that back in the day got lucky...but scary bet

but as they say big risk big reward or big risk low reward...seems this kinda thing always shoots to the edge and either flies upward or falls off the edge downward

I may still get on board..but right now too many moving parts (firmware? 45 day warranty? 12 month ROI) .....then again not a lot of Titan cubes floating around I can repaste

and fix either :( So anyway wish all luck on the A4 but sitting on the fence now :)

I sended mail with pre-order two day back. No answer.

Far too expensive, 5 units is 1400mhs or $36 a day at current prices

with 1800 x 5 I could build 5 ethhash rigs 

So has the first batch been sent?  Has anyone received theirs?  How is it?

I know I haven't gotten the notification from Inno yet that they want to ship the group buy order that our little group placed.  They will be invoicing us for the shipment where we have to send another wire transfer to them for the shipping.  I haven't heard of anyone getting theirs yet.

I do not know if this listing is legit and I am no way connected

but I thought I would share this A4 listed on ebay 136Mhs@520W
(you get 2 units per buy it now) says its in hand

http://www.ebay.com/itm/A4-Dominator-280Mh-s-Litecoin-miner-like-zeus-thunder-x3-gridseed-a2-terminator-/112167146124?hash=item1a1daed28c:g:qDAAAOSwNRdYAUzz (http://www.ebay.com/itm/A4-Dominator-280Mh-s-Litecoin-miner-like-zeus-thunder-x3-gridseed-a2-terminator-/112167146124?hash=item1a1daed28c:g:qDAAAOSwNRdYAUzz)

Someone is crazy to pay $1000 markup for that miner on ebay -- I'm amazed they already sold one

But I know that seller is legit -- they have it listed on their site as well - http://www.deepinthemines.com/

I am not affiliated with the auction or the site.

I would not be so amazed, these were a fantastic investment for some people.

I've seen worse necros but not often - you DO realise you were replying to a post that was almost a YEAR OLD?

Here is a more recent one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/263244425177
BTW, I realize the pix is upside down, but I can't edit it...