A4 Dominator, the 14nm LTC ASIC/Miners, in mass production, deliver in a week

[Searing]

Yeah I sent them an email just to see if I'd get a reply. They got right back to me and asked 'how many'


I said TWO (should have said 20 duh just to get some replies) and they have ignored my other 2 emails since

too small fry ..they are chasing IPO and big miner $$$ without a lot of success imho

BUT they make other chips..not just asic's for ltc or btc...THUS the IPO $$$ was for making 14nm chips

if they DO get IPO $$ it is a win/win/win for them in

1) investors paid for 14nm equipment needed to make these scrypt miners and such equip can be used to make other 14nm chips by their firm (non-crypto)

2) they can build their data hall first using the above equipment and a much lower cost per chip and cost to mine them as a data hall

3) the 2 things above 'if successful' would be something to point to to get a) more IPO $$ or b) pursue 'bulk sales' of these 14nm chips to other data halls for equip

So my 'guess' is the A4 Dominator will be a limited run in that why sell a bunch and water down the $$$ made by your data hall miner operation with a lot of home miner users

they will make a few to show stuff exists (like sfards) but the main thrust imho if I am right was the expansion of equipment needed for their biz of 14nm chips

and their own data hall mining such (and no one else) till such point they go to bulk chip sales and move on..probably months later

I'm betting also the A4 Dominators or the relatively 'few' that will be available for 'pre-order' will run about $4k at the least...

we will see how close i am

supposedly this A4 Dominator is supposed to hit the 'world' in July 2016....looking a lot like butterfly labs vaporware at this point ....at least to the 'masses'

 To the best of my knowlage, Innosilicon doesn't HAVE a datahall.

 They also don't NEED an "IPO" - they have a long-established chip making business that appears to be quite profitible on it's own ALREADY.

 On the other hand, they probably are pushing for initial sales to large farms and resellers like Zoomhash.

 There is no real evidence that KNC ever deployed a significant amount of their "Solar" chip in quantity - at most, they managed to deploy enough of it to replace older miners and little if any more, since their block find rate never demonstrated a significant jump.

 The Alcheminer folks have announced they're working on a "next gen" chip/miner, but no idea how far along they are on it - Innosilicon MIGHT end up with competition again in Scrypt eventually.


 I sent an email asking about even APPROXIMATE miner pricing, specifying that I couldn't say "how many" without a PRICE. No reply yet, but that might be in part explained by the weekend.

well ...i stand corrected...i really doubt they will not have a large data hal if they are the ONLY maker of chips ..don't ya know....and yeah they won't need IPO $$ if what you say is
true ..why bother if they can self finance all of the stuff

alcheminer I was told on another thread is 'kaput' they were the ones asking for IPO $$$ .but again the 'rumor' was they are out of it

could be true on the KNC solar chip stuff...they were LATE on that chip as well had problems...and they did use IPO $$$ may have dried up

yeah they don't reply to emails anymore (innsilicon) or at least to ME for $$$ for units ....maybe I hit the 'small fry' list

Again I'd bet they will have a data center ...I mean if you are the only game in town why not....they could flood the market with miners and bulk chips for a big flash for say
7 months or so..but why do that when you could play the game like my Titans have played..and gone on for an extra year or so mining....just do enough 'sales' and equip
for the data center to mine scrypt ..say LTC...bump the LTC difficulty up 20% say.....and you can ride that as the big dog in the network for a long long time

but they could just blow the doors off of difficulty and offer miners/their own hall/ and bulk chip sales....get in get out while the $$$ are good...guess that would depend
on scrypt prices and maybe if they thought they could pull a next gen scrypt chip out in the future when that kinda puttered out

(the ways of crypto are mysterious to me)

anyway the alchiminer may be a rumor..but if so it is a common rumor they are in trouble and out of the game for new miner/chips (could be wrong)

[mjgraham]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

[Searing]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

Not saying that is a trend on a limit or delay on when a guy could get individual units, but it

Seems to be pivoting towards that General Direction. In a hand pointing ....this way kind of gesture 😄

[mjgraham]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

Not saying that is a trend on a limit or delay on when a guy could get individual units, but it

Seems to be pivoting towards that General Direction. In a hand pointing ....this way kind of gesture 😄

Ah i guess I was really being silly to think that was a possibility in the first place, I guess I'll just have to wait for someone to leak it out. Oh well back to monkeying with my A2s.

[QuintLeo]

I remember seeing a listing on Alibaba at one point, probably from a Google search, at somewhat over $4k - but it was a reseller, not Innosilicon themselves.

 Guess I get to wait for Zoomhash to start reselling them (I am 10 Sigma certain Zoomhash was one of Innosilicon's "partners").


 I'm also going to be VERY curious to see how their announced "A2 upgrade" stuff works out.


 I suspect Innosilicon will start selling to individuals eventually, but they want to get the "big batch" orders first to pay for development.

[Searing]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

For what it's worth I've seen the A4 Dominator presale on Alibaba or Aliexpressb on May 21st and it was $4k+. It said shipping late July early August. Tried to look today and could not find it.

Well it is common to get a used (protected by paypal and credit card) KNC Titan 350mh on Ebay for about 2.5-3k and it is 1250 watts. The A4 is supposedly (?) 400mh and 1150 watts.

I managed to SPLIT one off a Titan on ebay auction in an epic UNICORN HUNT! that worked as advertised full out and NEW ..buy it NOW no less...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Titan-Scrypt-Miner-Package-/131792974267?hash=item1eaf7931bb:g:AQIAAOSwKfVXHr2z


Yeah $1,825.00 usd with my 1/2 of shipping added. IT WAS REALLY NEW (sheesh.....November 2014 unit). Both units were. Both work full out as well.


So figuring halving is coming up for BTC (folk mine LTC to BTC) and the fact SUMMER is coming in force....I'd expect you will see a lot of Titans for sale coming up

before JULY.

ie makes more sense imho to buy them with paypal protection..then a PRE-ORDER with 90 day warranty for 4k ..even if burnt on your Titan paypal protection on ebay

not to mention we have folk that CAN fix them for reasonable prices (see btctalk thread)

Then again  a PRICE PUMP in BTC and LTC follows in its 'Yoshi to Mario" like maner...and I may get an A4 for 4k also....it all depends....don't ya know....but that would be quite the pump for me to jump in at that price.


thats the gamble thou.....$4k for an A4 at current prices it would take me at 14c kwh and their 1150 watts at 400mh at $4 buck LTC

using this free calc to all on litecoinpool (modifiable)

www.litecoinpool.org/calc

I get the following

30 days   128.30273438 LTC   513.21 USD            Total        115.92 USD      Electric         397.29 USD   Profit after


but I'd take the specs with a grain of salt their A2 Terminator did not (or had to work at it) to get 110 mh..most did less and they also used more watts..It is more realistic to expect
that an A4 would be equiv say 375mh and 1250 watts say....then their specs...*used above*


So at the SAME difficulty and the SAME  price per LTC it would take me about 10.0682 months...add a very modest difficulty increase and price increase etc...say 12 months.

Would be kinda a wash even if you got a full working to the wall 350mh Titan today for 2.5k and shipping

Then again never say never


$650 usd at an exchange of 0.008 (currently 0.009) ...but anyway say 0.008 that is $5.20 LTC...with that these numbers look a lot better (depending on how flooded with bulk chip sales..and A4 Dominators are produced...and such thou)

crypto always the drama!

[QuintLeo]

The difference is that the Titans are used units with a LONG HISTORY of having cores die frequently, while the Innosilicon A2 was arguably the most stable and rock-solid miner ever built (the LKetc Dragon models it was based on CAN argue that point).

 The only advantage the Titans ever had over the A2 was their efficiency - but Litecoin never dropped far enough for A2s to become unprofitable unless you had very HIGH electric cost.


 *YET*


 That should change eventually if enough A4 units get sold.

[Searing]

The difference is that the Titans are used units with a LONG HISTORY of having cores die frequently, while the Innosilicon A2 was arguably the most stable and rock-solid miner ever built (the LKetc Dragon models it was based on CAN argue that point).

 The only advantage the Titans ever had over the A2 was their efficiency - but Litecoin never dropped far enough for A2s to become unprofitable unless you had very HIGH electric cost.


 *YET*


 That should change eventually if enough A4 units get sold.

Don't disagree..but the Titans had a year warranty and now you have a good shot with gen tarkins 3rd party firmware and lightfoot's fixing of such to have SOME protection...my main point is that IF they Innsilicon ships to the big guys say in JULY then MAYBE you could see these units in SEPT..for a say 4K price..even USED the Titans are a better risk AT THIS POINT IN TIME before they crank up the difficulty etc by say Sept. Remember a used Titan legit sale at say 325 to 350 used....for 2500 bucks is a 1.5k discount on such a gamble vs 90 days on a pre-order of an A4 that COULD have the same issues as KNC with new 14nm chips....(who knows ..just tossing this out there) and maybe only getting your hands on one as a pre-order at 4k in say if really lucky ...imho...the middle of Sept! (DAMN.....)

You should probably JUST buy crypto (ltc or btc or whatever) and hold it..and not get any equip...I'm just saying if you are hell bent on getting a scrypt miner..you may want to weigh the options I mention.

(then again I drank the BFL kool aid at one time..so take any advice I give with a grain of salt)

But 4k imho by the time they get them out after pre-order (assuming you could do so in July) and only 90 day warranty...and again ALL these units of the past of various companies have had firmware issues the first 3 months ..from what I've seen from various asic companies of any stripe btc or ltc in the past....so my view is they 'kinda' get the firmware working the first 3 months...and no real improvements thereafter ..usually because they SOLD all the stuff at the front end (out of stock or so in the past) and thus everyone drops out of warranty at the same time (again this is historical and and assumes a limited number of first run units ...to limit their risk...better to sell out all guick)



Tough odds at 4k imho.  IF it was say 2.5k maybe.....for the 'toy' factor (ie if it don't roi you say to self it was a 'toy' to protect ego lol)

But as you point out with the issues of Titans and not working with pools or multipool the first 3 months and firmware issues etc on a 90 day warranty....man......that may be  too much pucker factor for me to take (and I'm not looking at an A4 just as a disclaimer) just gives me the shudders on the above if I was to dump 4k on one.

[Elphamyto]

Innosilicon has never sold directly to customers wanting small quantities (iirc a minimum of 10 units for A2 machines). Moreover, their asics have never been cheap in price or quality, so they are likely trying to get as much as possible (perhaps so much that they rather not publicly post a price at this point, or the price varies depending on the offer + amount). Right now ~80% of the ltc network is mined by Chinese pools, so if you are outside of China with a stack of these machines you will still be at a disadvantage.

[QuintLeo]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

For what it's worth I've seen the A4 Dominator presale on Alibaba or Aliexpressb on May 21st and it was $4k+. It said shipping late July early August. Tried to look today and could not find it.

but I'd take the specs with a grain of salt their A2 Terminator did not (or had to work at it) to get 110 mh

 They've said the miners would be 400-500 MH - and as it happens, the only A2 Mega units I have that are NOT seeing 108-111 MH consistantly I don't trust the power supplies enough to push that hard.

 The power specs on the A2s DID tend to be a bit optimistic sometimes - manufacturing variances I'd guess - but they generally hit the rated hashrate pretty closely if you clocked them that way.


 I still prefer the proven RELIABILITY of Innosilicon designs to date over anyone else in the Cryptomining ASIC field that sold gear to the public.

[QuintLeo]

Innosilicon has never sold directly to customers wanting small quantities (iirc a minimum of 10 units for A2 machines). Moreover, their asics have never been cheap in price or quality, so they are likely trying to get as much as possible (perhaps so much that they rather not publicly post a price at this point, or the price varies depending on the offer + amount). Right now ~80% of the ltc network is mined by Chinese pools, so if you are outside of China with a stack of these machines you will still be at a disadvantage.

 Actually, they have - their Farm Boys were pretty much ALL sold direct-to-customer in small quantities, and the later runs of the other A2 units were as well.

 With that said, they DID do "dealer and big farm only" sales for a while - I suspect they plan to follow the same successfull model with the A4, though the "partners" are an added twist that will probably soak a big chunk of the first batch.



 BTW - don't tell Zoomhash they're at a disadvantage, I'm sure they've been selling off a bunch of their used A2 units out of their farm for months for a REASON - despite having VERY VERY cheap electric in the area that farm is in.

[Eyedol-X]

I hope someone does some sort of Group buy on these in a few months if they won't sell to individuals.

 Really would like to have (1) A4 Dominator ...

[mjgraham]

Well I got a reply back on just buying ASICs , they said min order was 100k and no datasheets or info otherwise unless you order so I guess that dream is gone.

For what it's worth I've seen the A4 Dominator presale on Alibaba or Aliexpressb on May 21st and it was $4k+. It said shipping late July early August. Tried to look today and could not find it.

but I'd take the specs with a grain of salt their A2 Terminator did not (or had to work at it) to get 110 mh

 They've said the miners would be 400-500 MH - and as it happens, the only A2 Mega units I have that are NOT seeing 108-111 MH consistantly I don't trust the power supplies enough to push that hard.

 The power specs on the A2s DID tend to be a bit optimistic sometimes - manufacturing variances I'd guess - but they generally hit the rated hashrate pretty closely if you clocked them that way.


 I still prefer the proven RELIABILITY of Innosilicon designs to date over anyone else in the Cryptomining ASIC field that sold gear to the public.

I agree my A2 hardware has been pretty strong, I have modified them a lot and redone about everything with them. Your right out of the box I couldn't get near 110 a few mods and depending on power I can get one to get close to 118 pretty decently

[wolverine5pl]

Any update when and where we can buy A4?

[Searing]

Any update when and where we can buy A4?

I'd expect sometime in Sept .....in that all the miners will go to the folk that are currently on the pre-order list for orders over 100k which is their current cut off I guess

tough...if a lot buy and kick up difficulty for data halls etc.....esp if in that Sept time frame it is still 4k a unit at 400mh and 1150 watts...just saying

anyway how this stuff usually works....above...is my guess

[QuintLeo]

I agree my A2 hardware has been pretty strong, I have modified them a lot and redone about everything with them. Your right out of the box I couldn't get near 110 a few mods and depending on power I can get one to get close to 118 pretty decently

 Only reason I'm not pushing my megas to 110 across the board (they're all CAPABLE of 109-111 range at the 1200Mhz setting) is that I don't trust the "stock" power supply in 1 of them. 2 already got X1250 transplants (one had a PS die on me, the other I couldn't figure out WHAT it was rated at). The 4'th one had a 1300 Gold in it already when I bought it from Zoomhash - apparently it ALREADY had it's stock power supply death before it got to me. 8-)

[mjgraham]

I agree my A2 hardware has been pretty strong, I have modified them a lot and redone about everything with them. Your right out of the box I couldn't get near 110 a few mods and depending on power I can get one to get close to 118 pretty decently

 Only reason I'm not pushing my megas to 110 across the board (they're all CAPABLE of 109-111 range at the 1200Mhz setting) is that I don't trust the "stock" power supply in 1 of them. 2 already got X1250 transplants (one had a PS die on me, the other I couldn't figure out WHAT it was rated at). The 4'th one had a 1300 Gold in it already when I bought it from Zoomhash - apparently it ALREADY had it's stock power supply death before it got to me. 8-)

Yea the stock PSUs are just barely enough to make them work, I had to upgrade them to go much beyond stock

[Swimmer63]

Do we have an experienced group buy manager interested in contacting them? If the price is under $2000, we should be able to get 20+ units worth of interest.

[ps_jb]

Do we have an experienced group buy manager interested in contacting them? If the price is under $2000, we should be able to get 20+ units worth of interest.

Do you want to invest money from 20+ into 2 pics made in Photoshop?

[Swimmer63]

Do we have an experienced group buy manager interested in contacting them? If the price is under $2000, we should be able to get 20+ units worth of interest.

Do you want to invest money from 20+ into 2 pics made in Photoshop?

I don't think they feel obligated at this point to prove to us they have anything.  They are looking for big fish.
And it's not like this is not an established company with a history.  I'm not saying that's scam-proof.  Just that it's not your run of the mill super shady manufacturer.
The better the product, the later we will find out details.  I am just suggesting we pool buying power.  Then maybe we can learn more.