Bitcoin Forum

Posting here, for that much seems insane, right?

Probably.  But I thought it's worth a shot to see if there's any interest.

My original post about who I am, the project, and why I'm exploring bitcoin options is here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1485329.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1485329.0)

Looking at it from a loan perspective, the terms would likely be:

- 30,000 Loan Units, $10/ea, total $300,000 USD
- This would be a USD denominated loan with Bitcoins being used purely to facilitate easy transacting.  They would be converted and deposited into the company's Canadian bank account.
- I think two or three paths are possible:

• The loan could be conventional with an approximate 10% interest rate and payments starting January 2017.
• Or the loan could be a note convertible to cash with a 20% bonus at any future event where the company secures VC funding. (eg, in a triggering event the $300k loan becomes repayable at $360k + accrued interest.)
• If you are an accredited investor I believe a convertible note could also have an equity option.

- Lenders would get regular updates on game progress, access to the alphas & betas, and some kind of in-game benefit.
- Collateral isn't likely to happen.  I have already spent six digits bootstrapping the company and can't risk my home at this stage of my life.  However, I will mitigate risk as best I can by making sure we meet all of the criteria in the "Berkus Method" prior to accepting funding.  That is to say, I am funding the company myself through the extremely risky stages.

• Sound Idea
• Prototype
• Acquiring Quality Management
• Establishing Strategic Relationships
• Product Release

What do you guys think?  Thoughts?  Criticisms?

Cheers.

Probably. It is pretty rare that I see a successful large loan request that is even a fraction of what you are asking for. Even if you are legit (I have no idea if you are one way or another), I would be surprised to see a loan of this size filled. 

Based on your accounts recent posting activity, I think there is a chance that your account might be hacked (your account was inactive for a long time until after the forum's PW hashes were leaked, and then your account subsequently made a very small number of posts after the PW hashes were leaked). I would suggest that you provide some kind of cryptographic proof that you are the original owner of your account by signing a specific message from an address that you have either previously posted a very long time ago or from an address that is known to be associated with a service that you have previously run. 

VC will not give you a money. If you need a prototyping (means TRL ~4-5) your start-up will burn minimum $1M per year.

If your idea is really solid - and you can put it into the ears of potential investors - maximum they will give you 25k, which will be enough to make a Delaware LLC, optioned (non-exclusively) 1 IP (better if you are making a spin-off - will be cheaper) and pay taxes next April.

Good idea.  How about some specific text injected into the source code on http://demo.btct.co (http://demo.btct.co)?

What should I write?  Give me a sentence or something.

I could also sign someone's btct.co wallet address from back in the day, feel free to provide one.


Not sure I completely understand this, but what I was trying to say is that I've already been funding development for six months and the prototype (the game) is nearing a beta stage and before accepting any cash I will have released it such that anyone can play and check it out. 

Cheers.

Yeah right.  People have an extremely difficult time getting a loan of $0.75 on this forum, and you're asking for 680 btc?  Not gonna happen without collateral and probably wouldn't happen even if you put up your house.

This is what I was thinking too, but all it takes is a few of the right people to see it.

Appreciate your input.

Cheers.

So in your case TRL is close to 7 then and obviously no IP involved

Looks like your chances to get a second phase of financing is easier - but not on this forum. Ebuchie nishebrody (nevermind, the definition of $0.75 members) do not have these money

Try IRL

This is not the place for such loan requests. First, better go for Long-term offers section https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0.
Second, an even better section for you is Securities https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0
Good luck with your project.

Yup, I posted a more securities centric version on the securities side.  It's linked in the OP.

I wasn't sure when I crafted it what long term was, I don't see a cutoff in the description.  Any mods handy that can move this to long-term?

Thanks!

Critcism.
You were barred from doing this for a period of two years from Dec 8th, 2014 by the SEC for not following the law. Two years have not passed.

Casinos are highly regulated ventures in Canada online or otherwise.  It seems you are heading down the same path as previously.  I find it hard to believed you are not being surveilled.  This smells of a sold account scam.

 The whole site was for sale including Ethan's software.  We could never be sure it was Ethan injecting code or signing things.

Thank you for the opportunity to clear up what seem to be some misconceptions.

I am barred until January 2017 from acting as a broker or dealer, from working with a broker or dealer, (ugh, which I think is why Coinbase closed my account.) from working in an investment company, from working as an investment advisor, and from being in any way involved in penny stocks.  I am not barred from seeking a loan or investment for my private company.  The dispute with the SEC resulted in a settlement, IE, I was not in trouble for not following the law, I was in trouble for not following their interpretation of the regulations.  The difference is subtle, and the nature of the settlement prevents me from going into detail, but the fact that they settled and didn't force it into court should speak volumes as to how much of a case they thought they had.  Nevermind the fact that after being under investigation for over a year, no charges of any kind were filed.  If I'd had the resources to defend myself in court against the SEC I would have, but I'd already spent what most would consider to be a fortune trying to defend myself.

With the game in development there are no casinos involved. The game is a free to play game in the social casino genre.  No real money... on facebook... that kind of thing.  Which is right up my alley given that my background over the last 5 years has been working on Bingo Blitz.  Check it out on facebook or mobile, it's pretty fun and it's made money hand over fist.


I never sold it, but this is true.  Would another form of proof be acceptable?  Something on kattare.com perhaps?

Regardless, I won't be asking for cash until I have software to demonstrate on facebook, a full website up and running, etc.  I think the product will speak for itself when the time comes.

Cheers.

Edit/Add: I'll also note that I don't at all hold a grudge with the people at the SEC.  You have to keep in mind that at the same time they were investigating me, they had just discovered Bitcoin and the same team was working the Trendon Shavers (Bitcoin Savings & Trust) and Jon Montroll (BitFunder) cases.  We all know how those turned out.  It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd have the misconception that all of Bitcoin was a big scam.  I'd like to think that in some respects it was in working with me that helped them realize there was a lot more to it.  By the time the investigation was wrapping up and the settlement being worked out, their hands were tied and the $10,000 fine I think was the minimum they could issue.

Edit/Add: Dang, meant to link the settlement.  Actual settlement is here: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2014/33-9685.pdf (https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2014/33-9685.pdf)

I was thinking sold account due to the large posting gap but your  explanation above rings true, especially given my own dealings with Homeland Security and the "Justice" department.  I also wanted to go to trial and rub their noses in their extremely weak case but could not afford it after spending over $200,000 defending myself before we even talked about going to trial.  When they offered to drop all the criminal charges against me and all the separate civil charges against all the seized property for "only" $40,000 in cash and $40,000 in Bitcoins I had to begrudgingly pay them off because that was less that it would have cost me to take it to trial.

I don't blame anyone for being suspicious.  The forum's been hacked, people sell their accounts, accounts get compromised, any number of things happen.  I don't get why the forum still doesn't do 2FA... it's so simple to implement.

I've read your site and followed what happened.  Made me sick to my stomach.  I think I spent around double that.  That's the USD side without taking into account the 500 BTC I had to sell prematurely in the $90 - $100 range to fund the initial deposit, only to see it at $1000 just a few months later.  Then add insult to injury and I had to pay taxes on it all.  My life would be completely different today if they had just sent a takedown notice and left it at that.

There really needs to be some kind of protection against this sort of thing, where the US Gov has to reimburse you if they lose.

 Thanks very much for the explanations.
As a former investor at BTC-TC, I followed up on your ordeal (I would say our ordeal but you bore the brunt of it).  I don't understand how you were taken to task and yet those who listed shares of their companies for trading on your platform (and in some cases disappeared totally with investor funds) seemingly got off scot-free.  Okay, Asicminer is was based in China so SEC has no jurisdiction there but they were one of the few companies to find alternative platforms for investors to trade.... Anyway, that's all in the past now.

 I supposed you could prove who you are (if the need arises) with some gov't issued photoID and a photo of you holding it but that might not bode well for you (I mean in terms of identity theft).  Judging by the response to this thread, it doesn't seem like there are many members left on this forum who were around for BTC-TC though.  There are always people looking to make some return on an investment though and I have no doubt that you are the person who could make their dreams come true; you seem to have a sense for business and also a talent for programming.  As far as the loan goes, I think it would be best to seek the loan in US dollars (or bitcoin with the understanding that the repayment would be in USD), especially with the reward halving on the horizon.  Sadly, that rules out the Havelock option - unless they begin valuating in USD? Good luck with the venture; that's about all I can offer you at the moment because I don't have anywhere near 680BTC.

bro, that's cool
but what collateral do you offer?
and also, how can you prove the account was not hacked/stolen/bought?
80 greens do not automatically make you eligible for such a huge loan
i mean people get called scammers here for requesting 0.01 without collateral
300grand us is a LOT of money
banks would require 1 million in assets in order to give you such

This would be an investment into a startup, no collateral.  To mitigate that I am personally funding development for now and not accepting money until we have a product people can look at.

I can't prove the account was not hacked or sold.  Again though, I will not accept money until we have a product, and the process will be far more personal than just an agreement on the forums.

Correct, 80 greens, or whatever you see (it differs based on who you trust.) is not the grounds for this loan.  Far more compelling I think would by my past roles as CEO of Kattare, VP Technology at Playtika, etc.

$300k is definitely a lot of money and I agree, you can't be too careful. 

Cheers.

Yes, people have that amount of bitcoin here on this forum. But what part of NO, do you not understand, no one wants to give an amount to buy a Lamborghini Huracan or a Ferrari 458 Speciale with that. What if you run away with the money. There is a difference between $3,000 and $300,000+, I am just starting to think you don't understand or don't comprehend or have the basic understand of the English Language. No one wants to give you that amount without collateral. Go find angel investors, no one here cares about funding your business with a irreverisble Crypto-Currency.

I have been here two years and approaching three and you by far are the individual who lacks the most intelligence I have come across.

It's just a no.

P.S
Wow, I never knew Hero Members could be so stupid but you have proved me wrong.

Calm down dude.  Those of us who have been around longer than you remember burnside.  No need to throw such a fit.  If you don't trust him or don't want to lend to him then don't.  Depending on how things go some of us might just invest.  You are too blinded by your rage or whatever that is to even consider it.  Fine.  We all have your opinion right there in my quote so there is no need for you to ever come back to this thread.

It's good to get everyone's opinion.  It's what I'm here for.  Keeps me objective.

Thanks for your input.

I will add that I drive an '04 Expedition, despite many opportunities over the last couple years to "Tesla up" at other's expense.   ;)

P.S
Zero (0) Rage here, Just decreasing my risk adjusted rage to hedge against risk and I encourage others to do so.

BurtW, you are one of the most respectable people I respect on this forum and if I had I money, I would help you in any situation because you are a legitimate person asking for financial help. I would never treat you with ANY disrespect but can you see from a perspective how this amount is a little out of there? This is seriously kind of unreasonable that is way out of there, this is quite a crazy amount to as for this. Any one is free to fulfill this loan if feel comfortable.

Thanks for that.  I really appreciate it.  I agree with you that we all need to be very careful and suspicious here on these forums.  They are filled with people that are only here to scam in any way they can.  And they are always coming up with new ways to do it!  I also agree burnside is asking for a hell of a lot of BTC. 

Keep your guard up, and make sure you are dealing with reputable people.  That is way easier to say than to do.  As you may know I have been around the block myself - scammed out of thousands of Bitcoins by someone I actually met in person and trusted.  He turned out to be one of the biggest scammers ever on this forum.  He is in jail now but that is little consolation to the many very experienced Bitcoiners he was able to scam.  I learned a lot from that experience and hope I can avoid that same mistake in the future.

I would vouch that Burnside is a trustworthy member. He held much more Bitcoin of users funds for a fairly long duration (relative to the age of Bitcoin) compared to the loan he is requesting now. I have also confirmed that he is truly searching for this loan on another platform besides Bitcointalk (meaning if his account was sold he also sold his logins to other sites/applications... which I highly doubt). This is actually one of, if not the most sane loan requests I have seen on this forum... The only thing that seems to irk you is the size of the loan.

Thanks for that, appreciate it!

I think I had over 50k BTC and around 200k LTC on deposit at one point.  Definitely enough to retire on, even at the $100 exchange rate at the time.   ;)

If BTC keeps going up, then the number of BTC needed will go down.  I think it'd be about 590 BTC now.  If we're all lucky, it'll go up enough in a couple months that I won't even need the loan.   ;D

Cheers

Why don't you ask for that loan in Loanbase or BTCJam? If you are transparent enough then I think you should not have a problem asking for such loan with your ID proof.

600 BTC is not a mere loan which can be asked anonymously. Instead of criticisms you will get nothing here.

Good question.  BTCJAM caps out around $30k and has horrible interest rates.  I actually setup an account there, did all the account verifications, then discovered as I was creating the loan that it wasn't going to work.  Loanbase last time I checked was similar... really bad interest rates.

I am not anonymous.  Quite the opposite, I'm fairly well known to Bitcoiners who were around in 2012 - 2013.

Thanks!

I know taking several loans out isn't the best case scenario for your company but you could always try obtaining this loan split in 3-4, maybe it'd be easier for someone to finance you.

Best of luck, cheers! :)

Wait, you want a ~$300000 loan to produce a game?
I'm pretty sure that the game would be cheaper todeveloptan that?
Could you not ask the bank for a loan against your business of $300000 instead.

What are you putting up against the loan?Collateral should be worth more than the principal and it should include some verifiable assets without any liens or encumberances.Its not viable to enter an agreement in btc either for this amount due to volatility and lifespan of agreement maybe?You should draft up some proposal but you could also look at crowdfunding your idea and selling equity to raise capital but if you have any assets worth more than the principal you would be in a better position maybe?

 Read the OP.  He says collateral is "not likely to happen".
At this point he is guaging interest.  He is also looking at VC funding and other options.  This guy isn't one if the fly-by-nighters looking for a gambling fix or to buy some trust.
 Look him up; Ethan Burnside.

Ethan Burnside, a person who was fined $58,387 for violating the Securities Act of 1933, the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934, and the Investment Company Act of 1940 and is neither admitting nor denying the charges by paying the fines.

Source: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/united-states-sec-fines-btc-trading-corp-unregistered-bitcoin-stock-exchange

Everyone should worry him for sending that amount of loan so as to how he will pay back if he is targeted by SEC again?

 Here's a sample (http://demo.btct.co/) of his capabilities.  Here is one of his businesses. (https://www.kattare.com/aboutus.kvws)

edit: He got screwed by the SEC and I'm sure he has learned from that experience.  He's an intelligent guy.

Thanks!  I may end up splitting it if I can't find it all in one place.  A split actually would work in my favor if I'm working with angels because then I'd get more advisors involved in the deal.


I'm developing the game out of pocket using retirement savings.  I estimate cost for the initial version to be around $150,000.  The purpose of the loan is to get the company through the 6 months following deployment of the game, during which I will need to hire marketing staff, customer service staff, grow the server farm, buy advertisements, etc.  I also want to continue development after launch, to add new content, etc.


Yup, that's me!  I started the project before the US Gov't had acknowledged BTC at all.  As it turned out I was the guy that didn't run a fractional reserve, or make off with customer deposits like Bitcoinica, MtGox, GLBSE, Bitfunder, ad infinum.  Also the one that stayed online a year after closure so everyone could withdraw, get their tax records, etc.


Thanks for that!  More at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanburnside (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanburnside)

I had the same doubt up thread.  Please read the thread.  He explained it to me.

I am very positively surprised to see the amount of the loan.

I'm afraid that this is still not the best place to talk about such large amounts, but it shows which way goes Bitcoin and how serious it becomes.

I keep my fingers crossed that you will find investor on Bitcointalk.
It will be BIG step for lending section.

Good luck!

Haha, it would be it sounds like.  :)

I need to update the topic.  Bitcoin keeps going up.  "only" 520 BTC needed at today's exchange.   ;D

Seriously, as trustworthy as you are on this forum, accounts can be bought and sold and therefore your reputation doesn't really count... And 680 BTC is pretty absurd, I doubt anyone can fulfill that amount even if you choose to split it up into smaller shares.

I suggest you take a loan out in real life from a bank. However you seem to not wanting to offer your house as collateral...

520 BTC, due to exchange rate.

I would absolutely be working with any lender(s) outside the forum, I don't think it makes much difference how much you trust the account.

I can't get a loan from the local bank, that's the problem.  I just moved to Canada and my Permanent Residence is pending.  I don't have a SIN yet, thus no credit history either.  I will definitely try local avenues again once the product is further along.  There are angels in the area that I've been in contact with, they're just very wary right now because they've been burned quite a bit lately I guess.

Cheers.

:) yep, it would be..

Today I got the idea that maybe you can look for cooperation with a crowdfunding service, or maybe even open it by yourself.  ::)

After reading all the documents here, I've came to the conclusion that if I would have the necessary funds I would do it myself!
If by any chance I put my hands on so much BTC then I will surely give you the funds!
I don't know if anybody have read the documents that you've posted here, I only see accounts that are involved in signature campaigns and tell you shit about collateral just to increase their post count!

P.S. I hope you get the money right in time after your product is finished!

It is big amount i just wanna be bookmark the thread. I wanna see until the ends.

I've been seriously considering using the https://btct.co code that I wrote to do the offering.  I just have to be really careful about it from a legal standpoint.  Last thing I need is to piss off the SEC again by resurrecting anything that from the outside looks like what it used to be.  If that makes sense?

 What about Havelock (https://www.havelockinvestments.com/)? Asicminer moved there after BTCT was shuttered (then subsequently imploded). When would all conditions of your agreement with the SEC be completed?

There are a couple problems with Havelock.  First is that it's not licensed in the US, so no one in the US could participate.  (a legality which I have no choice but to observe.)  Second is that even in Canada, as a British Columbia Corporation, listing on Havelock would trigger a public shares class rather than a private shares class, particularly with the ability to trade the shares on an "open" market.  I do not want the corporation to be public yet, as the reporting and accounting that has to be done is expensive and onerous.  If I use my site code, the shares (of a loan, or equity, either way) would not be tradable after the initial offering and I could execute any KYC/AML necessary to make sure that buyers meet their local jurisdictional requirements before buying in, thus allowing the corporation to remain private.

One area in which I am intimately familiar is regulatory SOX (Sarbanes - Oxley) compliance hurdles that public companies must endure in the US.  It was part of my job at Playtika to make sure that everything in IT at the Santa Monica studio was in compliance and it was an unbelievable headache... every... single... year.

Those are just the issues that I am aware of.  I'd be willing to bet a lawyer would be able to come up with more.

Just reading your opening post, it looks like you've devoted the majority of your time to writing the marketing pitch to raise money and expect the actual profit earning business to pop up along the way. Many crowd sourced money raisers like this have collapsed at various stages and your lack of vision beyond a large pile of cash is naive. Explain a well thought out business plan of how you will get a return on peoples investment.

The opening post in this thread should be read starting with the content in the linked post in the securities area here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1485329.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1485329.0)

I could have copied it in I guess, but didn't want to duplicate it all.

Hopefully in context, it all makes sense.  I'll have a product developed and live to show lenders before I accept any money.

Cheers.

Ask Satoshi in your dreams and he will lend you the coins in no time.... ::)

(I wonder why he has not yet received any negative trust for this? DT members, hypocrite much huh? >:( )

This sound really crazy. I don't think that you will ever get such a big loan but it would be even harder to earn that big sum. Unless you are a hacker.  ;D Anyway, good luck with your plans.

Negative trust why?  I didn't ask for a loan yet, just exploring options and interest.

I'll post an update when the beta is ready.

Cheers.

why he need to ask satoshi in his dream? satoshi is alive! here's his profil link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3 but he's never online again since 2010.
because he's not scam people on here, negative trust just for people who scamming other people (you must have valid proof too)

I am sorry but you are barking up the wrong tree here. There are not many people on here with that much bitcoin to start off and those who do have this much are not willing to risk it for someone who made their first connection with a person who could be anyone on a forum like this.  Not going to happen, so I suggest close your thread and move on.

Thank you for your input.  The volume of private messages I've received suggests there is in fact interest.

Cheers.

I think you should join some lending sites like btcpop may be.Build reputation there and add valid collateral there . And you may get loans there .
But still 680Btc is huge.I have seen 150BTC loans funded at btcpop

Yeah, it is definitely a lot of money.  Though it'd be 450 BTC now, with BTC at $660.  Part of the problem is it doesn't fit within the standard personal loan genre.  A convertible debt loan is a loan intended for startups, where the risk is high because collateral is minimal, but the reward is also high, as you can convert to equity at a discount later.

Cheers