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Germany's Chancellor Merkel "firmly" rejects calls to change refugee policy despite recent terror attacks

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36912141 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36912141)

That seems to be messed up. With all the recent terror bombings from these syrian refugees you would think she would get a clue by now ::)
You can see the issue letting in a million of them into your country at the same time. What did you think was going to happen >:(
Ever heard of slow progression :-\
Everybody knows that she did this just to show off in a certain way to other countries that German is a more humanitarian  then the others in the EU are. PFFFFT  :P
That snobby rhetoric backfired didn't it Merkel.

Bizarre. I kinda thought the leader of a country's first responsibility is to the people of that
country.

Seekers deserve asylum but throwing the doors to any asshole don't make sense.

That's too late. All of these beasts (by the way I was right, I predicted that would happen long time ago) are already in what used to be Germany. Except with a massive deportation or in situ extermination, Germany will know that many more times.

It is almost already too late..while the politics and diplomats dine wine and enjoy the sound of fiddle..

If you try to close the borders what will happen? Nothing. It will stay exactly the same. Closing borders won't prevent terrorists from entering EU, it's simply not possible.
Why not letting everyone entering? If you try to close it, women and children will never get in, educated people will never get in, but terrorists will always find a way.

Why would you let everyone in?  Impact on European economy would be negative.

Each and every studies ever made prove the contrary.
You either prove what you state or I take this statement and put it in the "bullshit bin" ^^

Where are these studies? The world has billions of people, do you want to put them all in Europe?  ???

I think that Chancellor Merkel is brave enough not to run for popularity but to fight for her vision, even against public and whole eU.
Politicians don't have vision but they just doing things which will please people, even if, in the long term, their actions will not help people.
They think only about their own people and don't care about others.
Their only purpose and goal is not to loose election.
Merkel is different and truly brave woman, statesman, not politicians.
She do right things, in the right time, even if this means to loose election and lost support from public.
I would like to see more such people in our politics, statesman, not politicians.

Just write "refugees economical impact" in Google and you'll find everything you'll need ;)
And we could put most of the population in europe without any problem. We would still need a low part of the population (like 10%) in the rest of the world to produce food and seek natural ressources, but we could easily fit the 6 other billions of people in europe sure. It's not like place is missing.

I doubt they will change their stance any time soon. thats the thing with governments, once they say something is right or they choose a policy (an example is the war on drugs), Even when the facts come up and slap them in the face they will never admit they where wrong. This is all stemming from the war on terror which forces refugees into europe. If a goverment ever says in their policy that its a war on x or y then its destined to fail. By the time Germany step up and abandon their politically correct stance the better for everyone.

Probably biased reseach.

Lets turn the situation around: You move to an Arabic country: You don't speak the language, don't have any valid degrees, job competition from native population, no permanent visa, an accent when you talk, strange custom. You won't find a job in short term.

Short term it will cost money, long term it could be profitable but that is totally questionable.

Maybe biased research, but that's weird no study ever showed the other way around ^^

The difference is that we need people working in low quality jobs. There is unemployment but there is also jobs that are not chosen because people refuse them because of quality. And the refugees are and have always been filling those jobs.

They're not fucking refugees either, even the EU is openly admitting that they don't qualify for refugee status and many of them are actually economic migrants, I'm fucking sick of this. I hope that Theresa May doesn't screw us over on the EU issue like so many are wanting because I am convinced people like Merkel will fuck us over big time.

Call me paranoid, but I think one of the reasons the EU was so desperate for the UK to keep us in was not only so we would have to pay to keep all these migrants but it would also mean she could just dump the problem on us like with France. So rather than having to actually deal with the problem or deport them she could simply let them cross the borders freely and end up looking like a hero while the migrants from the middle east go and trash another country.

My understanding was that refugees had to move to the neighbouring country to be considered refugees but these people are traveling much further than that to gain entry to germany france and the uk. In my opinino they shouldnt be let into any of these country's because the only reason they are moving their is to milk those country's for everything they can. Its basically on turkeys shoulder to accomodate most of these people not europe, especially since noe of the countrys they come from are even in europe but once they get in they seem to get free reign over wherever they want to go.

And so what?
Even if 90% of them are economic migrants, what about it?
It doesn't change the positive impact this immigration has on economy, it doesn't change the fact that it prevents EU population from shrinking as we don't make enough kids. It doesn't change anything, that they are refugees or economic migrants doesn't make much difference.

Milk those countries?
Hmm... I wouldn't like to insult you, but as far as I know they don't milk anything as they don't receive anything from governments as they don't have the citizenship.
Sure they receive money food and shelter from associations, but that's why associations are created.
But they don't "live as a burden for the country" as they have 0 right to any state help.

And I find it very funny to see someone crying for dogs in south Korea but saying we shouldn't let humans come here... how hypocritical again.

The problem with mass uncontrolled immigration is not only financial.

If as you state m0gliE that it is a financial benefit then why is Europe proposing increases in taxes to fund it?  shouldnt it be self funding if it is financially positive.

George Sorros is stating that EU countries should designate 10% of each countries GDP to deal with the immigration crisis, doesnt sound financially benefitial to me.

Then there is the complete lack of integration, the increase in crime, the demands made to the host contry to change their way of life to suit the immigrants.

Merkel is suppose to represent the German people and act upon their wishes.  She seems to have forgotten this as Germans do not want uncontrolled immigration and she continues to press her own agenda.  She should be hung as a traitor.

Of course you gotta pay to absorb the wave of immigration ^^
But once the wave is absorbed, the benefits are much higher, especially considering the low quality jobs and demographic impacts. Looks at Germany,  not even 1.2  child per couple. We dont even talk about "positive impact" here, we talk about necessity of mass immigration xD

For the moral/crime aspect that's very different. Easy solutions exist but governments refuse them simply because they are far too corrupted...

You want to stop every crime in the city? Easy. First create mandatory work to benefit from unemployment help, anyone wanting to receive unemployment benefit should still work 20h a week for public causes (cleaning the streets, helping schools, recycling...). Second legalize drugs and prostitution,  it will completely destroy the criminal organisations, and after all why alcohol is legal but booze is not? You got the right to drink or smoke whatever you want.

You should reduce unemployment by 70%, create new taxes incomes and erase criminality easily, of course that's just the first 2 steps but it would be a good start.

What about the massive increase in rapes, lack of integration and pressure exerted by the immigrants for the host country to change to suit them e.g sharia courts etc.

And what about the massive increase in rapes, complete lack of integration and the host country facing demands by the immigrants to change to suit them e.g. sharia courts, increased pressure on housing, pressure on infra structure such as schools and medical care (NHS)

And i find it funny that you care so much about these refugees when you dont seem to have much of a regard for life in general. You where living and breathing violence earlier and now your sticking up for the poor refugees? And im the hypocrite?

Besides, id much rather let the dogs in anyway, at least i can be sure that they wont blow us up, shoot us or make any other kind of terrorist acts. Letting in refugees we might as well just open the gates and let isis stroll on in. We could have them all sitting on benefits so they can concentrate on their terror plans in peace.

Im not sure what countries do and dopnt give aid but some do if not all, https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/sep/06/uk-cost-refugees-government-pledge

VEry easy but thanks for asking ^^
-Crimes/rapes: Criminality is and has always been linked to financial and economical status. You don't rape/steal/beat people when you don't have money problem, that's as simple as that (unless you have mental health issue of course). You won't the end of crimes? Stop unemployment, legalize drugs and prostitution. You won't see kids shooting themselves anymore.

-Integration problems: You wanna know why there are education problems? Simple, because we put them all in the same places and put them all together in the same schools. You gotta mix them with the rest of the society otherwise OF COURSE they won't integrate themselves!

-Housing problem: You kidding me? I won't talk about whole Europe but I know for a fact that around 30% of Paris isn't rented by anyone simply own by banks and that's all.

-Medical problem: Again, in France NHS costs around 2billions a year. Private sector makes 6.5 billions of profit. Need another explanation?

Paris is in a unique situation. It's not humane to welcome everybody but have no place for them to live. Living in tents in Calais, France is not a living.

Germany: short on space, is housing refugees in hotels
Spain: National Housing Crisis
Italy: Why Italy's housing crisis matters: Seven years after the financial crisis, Italy's property market has still not recovered.

The refugees should be able to live in Turkey, Iran. It's close to their country and similar.

@ m0gliE,

So the rape epidemic linked to muslim immigrants is purely down to the fact that need more cash in the bank lol.

I would say its more of a cultural problem where women are viewed as second class citizens in their home country and they bring the problem with them.

There is always a % of an indiginous population of any country that are poor yet they dont run around in large gangs mass raping multiple women like packs of animals.

I wonder if you would remain as enlightened if your mother, wife or daughter were on the receiving end of some cultural enrichment.

I didn't breath violence, I was stating logical arguments saying it was laughable to care so much about dogs in south Korea but not caring about what's going on in your home.

And I have much more care for fellow humans than for dogs yeah sorry.
Linking terrorism and refugees is dumber as hell.  Terrorists will pass even if you close your gates, and they'll pass easily! You can't close the whole EU borders good enough so terrorists don't go through. Difference is that ONLY terrorists will pass, not the normal refugees or economic migrants.

Cultural differences are absorbed when a country is in a stable economical situation that's all I'm saying. When people work they don't go around in groups of 150 like they did in Munchen. They don't spend there whole day drinking and smoking in the street looking at women. So yeah number of rapes is DEEPLY linked to the inactivity of people committing them.

For your last remark... it's not an argument. That's the difference between justice and revenge, individuals and collectivity... if you're not even able to make it, I don't think you can think about any political situation.

Moglie answers were pretty spot on.

Just one more statistic:

Germany had over 1 million immigrants last year and we had around 300 cases of sexual violence (including rape and over 250 on new years eve) and 3 cases of terrorist acts (0 deaths).

Anyone who learned statistics knows that this is not significant. It is sad to say it but stuff like that is bound to happen if the number of citizens/immigrants is great enough (law of large numbers).

And im not only talking about new immigrants because e.g. on new years eve there were perpetrators from maghreb states.

300 cases of sexual violence, I wonder if that is a true reflection considering the German authorities tried to cover a lot of it up as it didnt fit the political narative?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-police-ordered-to-remove-word-rape-from-reports-into-new-year-s-eve-sexual-assaults-a6972471.html

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12085182/Cover-up-over-Cologne-sex-assaults-blamed-on-migration-sensitivities.html


Migrants linked to 69,000 would-be or actual crimes in Germany in first three months of 2016
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

The report showed that 29.2 percent of the crimes migrants committed or tried to commit in the first quarter were thefts, 28.3 percent were property or forgery offences and 23 percent offences such as bodily harm, robbery and unlawful detention.

Drug-related offences accounted for 6.6 percent and sex crimes accounted for 1.1 percent.

They need to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Any immigrants caught committing a crime should be instantly deported with no questions asked leaving the honest ones to remain.

Oh allright, you are that guy who believes the german gubberment to cover every rapefugee - but in the same sentence using german gubberment statistics of rapefugee crimes.

Oh the irony.


Also lets not differ which crime they did and say all crimes are equally bad:

69.000/1.000.000 = 6.9%
(Its more then 1 million but just for the sake of easy calculations)

Kick the 6.9% out idc - still 1 million in germany.
You see there is no crime wave over germany, the numbers are not significant.


I found something that might should interest you:

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Germany&country2=United+Kingdom

Germany is safer and has less crime then the UK even though we took in 950.000+ more refugees that you.
How would you explain it?

Your welcome to keep them too, just dont come looking to the UK and the rest of the EU for a hand out to pay for them ;)

€50 billion cost by 2017 lol  ;D ;D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html

Thank god for Brexit.

p.s. the link to your "crime" stats state "Worries" i.e. not actual crimes ;)

Id disagree that cultural differences are absorbed when a country is in a stable economical situation.  Even if these guys are working they still see things the way they do which means woman are possessions that can be treated how they please.  And i don't know how you can't connect terrorism and refugees.  Of  course more terrorists are going to flood in if they can get in easier as refugees.  Open borders is not an option. 

After South Africa, Sweden has the 2nd highest rate of rape in the world, I wonder why?

2. Sweden

Countries For Rape Crimes Sweden
Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women comes out to be the victim of rape. If you look at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, there were only 421 rapes reported to the police – in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. It would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place for women in the world.

Sweden has the highest rate of rape in Europe. In 2013, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), there were 63 rape cases per 100,000 population reported to the Swedish police.

According to rape crisis advocates in Sweden, 1 out of 3 Swedish women have been sexually assaulted by the time they leave their teens. During the first half of 2013, more than 1,000 Swedish women reported being raped by Muslim immigrants in the Stockholm; over 300 of those were under the age of 15.

Wait, why are we talking about Sweden now? Did i miss something? ::)

Please go back to Germany and the comparison of crime rates between UK and Germany under the view of immigration.

I cant really say much about the scadinavian nations because im a german citizien and not familiar with their politics, culture and society - but it seems for me that there exist a deeper problem then just the number of immigrants.

If you people want to have a proper discussion please retain atleast a minimum of standards.
Dont change the topic because rape by immigrants are higher somewhere else in the world - it is about germany here.

Its not really their politics, culture and society that is the problem is it?

The immigrants causing the issues in Sweden are just the same as those travelling to Germany and the rest of the EU are they not?

The people of the EU have had enough and it its really not hard to spot the uprising beginning.

The far right are gathering more support by the day and the end result will not be pretty.

No they arent. Scadinavian nations are taking in immigrants since several decades.
And yes it must have to do with something else because the crime rate of refugees in scadinavia is like 3-5 times that of rest europe.

And regarding Germany, we took in like 90% of all refugees of 2014-2016 and they are staying in Germany.

The people of the EU? You? The majority is still intelligent enough to see through the right wing bull shit.

The question is:
How long will it take to integrate the refugees in our society?

E.g. my parents are renting an appartment to three syrian refugees right now, all three of them have academic titles - people that we will need in the future.

I dont agree with far right politics but you cant deny that they are gathering significantly more support in France, Hungary etc.

This is the symptom of failed multiculturism forced upon the people in unsustainable numbers and not that suddenly everyone just woke up one morning and became racist.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/right-421233.jpg

I agree with you that the far right got more support in the last 5 years and one of the reasons were the refugee policy.

But i wouldnt say it is caused by the immigrants per se (e.g. significant crime rate increase) but rather the fear mongering and populism of far right parties paired with real structural problems regarding globalisation.

Every terror attack is significant and terrible.
Terror attacks in EU could be rising:

I didnt see that post so let me answer it for you because you are too lazy to research the IfO and similiar studies zz....:

These studies are under the premise that the number of new refugee stays at the same level as of 2015 (as of july 2016 we had nearly no new refugees in comparison to 2015) and addition they only calculate gross expenses.

If you look at studies which included taxes, working refugees and so on germany will have a net positive economical effect from the refugees beginning 2020-2022 depending on numbers used (IMF, IfO, Deutsche Bundesbank).

@numbeo

Mark i think you should take a closer look at this website.
The first paragraph states:

Level of crime = Crime Rate

This is a strong answer but maybe not a bad one on several conditions:
-First the states should guarantee employment for its whole population  (I'm not talking about refugees, I'm talking about everyone). Anyone with a brain can understand how easy it would be to reduce unemployment to nearly 0, some reports revealed by wikileaks show government officials saying they want to keep unemployment rate at a relatively high level just for companies to keep low wages.
-second education should be reformed, you can't take the millions of migrants ( not just the recent ones, all of them) put them all together and saying "they don't adapt!" Of course they dont, why would they you put them all together!
-third reform construction and property ownership.  No one should have the right to leave a house not rented for 20 years while people live in the street. That's the case for most bank properties (again around 30% of Paris buildings for example)

The  you have to explicit a bit the notion of crime. For example in Switzerland they wanted to vote a law saying goes any migrants committing 2 crimes should be expelled, but it didn't pass because in Switzerland paying your taxes late is categorised as a crime, overspending is considered as a crime...
So if you explicit the notion of crime as a physical agression for example, then why not. Why not instaurant such law, a bit harsh but it's not bad in itself.

You should also reform the way to get nationalities, in france you have people actually working and paying good taxes for 10 years who still don't have French nationality, I don't think it's normal! ^^

Totally both wrong and dumb. Every attack is a tragedy, I lost friends in nice attack.
But it doesn't blind me from understanding that terrorist attacks ARE NOT IMPORTANT
number of deaths and damages is not significant! It's not important, it's still much lower than when corses attacked in france for example.

It's not because something is impressive that it's significant.

For example rapes. People are all crying "yeah migrants rape we should kill them all" but rapes in the outside don't even represent 10% of total rapes, 90% of rapes are done by relatives in the house. That's what is the most important. As shocking as the Munchen rapes were, they are not rationally significant.
Anyone thinking the contrary is just confusing his emotions and rationality.

Thank you for competing for the dumbest post of the week.
Please, give me one example of one country which ever managed to successfully stop immigration and or terrorism by closing it's birders in any way.
For God sake just buy a brain and look at USA Mexico border. It's one of the most powerful and we'll defended border in the word, creating the same around Europe would take decades and cost dozens of billions, and IT IS NOT EFFECTIVE!

I think the UK could effectively close its borders if it chose too.

The advantage of being an island.

https://japansociology.com/2013/06/29/illegal-immigrants-in-japan-2/

It begins :

http://www.lionheartnews.com/2016/07/monumental-this-country-declairs-they-will-build-wall-and-never-accept-a-single-muslim/

Germans wanting to get shot of Merkel:
http://www.lionheartnews.com/2016/07/watch-merkel-must-go-germans-turn-against-chancellor-as-thousands-protest-at-open-door-policy/

Aright since your so highly intelligent and border controls dont work what do you suggest ? Just un man all the borders and allow free travel throughout the world? Border control is the only option we have available and i could list a number of country's that do it successfully but Just because you cant stop every single person doesnt mean border control is ineffective. Mexico and usa is just a particularly bad example of border control due to the unworkable size but Holding back 80 percent of refugees is far better than holding back 0 percent .

Dont try to act like allowing refugees to go wherever they want isnt going to encourage more isis to sneak through because it clearly will.  http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/658508/EU-migrant-crisis-Islamic-State-ISIS-refugees-Syria-Greece-Italy-terror-Paris-attacks (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/658508/EU-migrant-crisis-Islamic-State-ISIS-refugees-Syria-Greece-Italy-terror-Paris-attacks)

Honest question mark:

Do you get all/majority of your information from lionheart.com and/or similiar?

No I don't.

Are you claiming the German protests are fake?

Sir, did you smoke?  :D

If you mean statistically: Yes, statistically the chance is infinitely small but that doesn't make it irrelevant. If its your loved ones dying that is very important.

No.

But i doubt you did a fact check and took every word of the article as truth?

If you try to investigate you will notice very fast that they dont care much about facts:

E.g. they depict the munich shooting as an act of islamic terrorism.

Their agenda is pretty obvious.

Maybe, UK only might be able to do it but only if they decide to shoot boats which might be a bit violent. But UK might be able to do it ;)

Normal borders are fine by my opinion.
You seem to refute the fact that ABSOLUTELY NONE of the last terrorists were "illegal refugees". They all had a French Belgium or German passeport.

You're apparently too dumb to understand that immigration isn't an important problem, I'm not saying it's not a problem but it's far from being an important one.

I mean from a global perspective. It's important for victims and relatives yeah, but it doesn't even stack to 1000 persons in france. So no its not an important issue from a country perspective.

i will try to explain what significant means based on car usage and road traffic deaths:

1. We have around 1200 million cars in usage worldwide

2. There are yearly around 1,25 million road traffic deaths.


Do you think we gonna ban car usage soon because every death is a tragedy and the dead people have family who moan after them? 

Seems like we're the only ones able to think from a large and logical perspective xD

I understood the statistics, not necessary to explain.

Totally both wrong and dumb. The probability is close to zero and statistically not significant but it's still human life we are talking about.

Angela Merkel and Americ and many Europe countries with bigger influence in EU are not in right.Why they didnt stop war in Syria and Iraq and then pupils will not come anymore to Europe.German will become muslim country that is Angela Merkel big mystake.

And so? We're talking about human lifes in every cases, car accidents, animals agressions...

For god sake, dogs kill more people than terrorist attacks, STAIRS kill more people, why the hell should terrorist attacks be significant while the rest is not important?

Because government needs to place the fear in you, so that they can be your savior, and you will bless them with your labor and money.

8)