Bitcoin Forum

Pretty simple - who has seen this website / done business with them / what are people's general thoughts? http://www.cloudhashing.com/

Their physical address seems to be a mail forwarding service with 22,000 other companies in the UK using that address....

If they are legit, it looks like a good business model, fair payouts. they say they begin in june 2013 but if they are using BFL ASICs that date could be a little optimistic. I've heard that if BFL is actually in the final stages of completing the first run of units (which are all earmarked for developers) and about to ship, that the people at the beginning of the queue might get thiers by june, but more likely, most later orders will see units in about 4-6 months time...plus its BFL...so add a few more months on top for good measure.
Also-the company is run by bitcointalk.org member Bitmaniac, who as you can see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35484 is a "newbie" member since july 2011 and has posted 3 times here. that doesn't look too good to me.
I might consider risking it if he had shorter contracts, but I wouldn't want to lose any substantial money if 1) a scam, or 2) BTC crashes and cant recover.
PS also it says on the site that they have sold over 5000 out of a total 6000 shares. there must be a few shareholders around these forums to prove that claim.
PPS the wiki says they plan to run Minrigs. At 30k a pop that's a hefty investment, even if he just runs one. somehow i don't really believe this guy. its too bad because it would be a nice opportunity if it was true and run honestly. but unfortunately my inner voice is also saying;
"If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is"

oh yeah, he also says on the site that the last bitcoin will be minted in 2040. (off by a hundred years)

I think the most accurate scam indicator right now is a newbie with single digit posts registered recently posting "Is [blah] a scam?".

And posted in an inappropriate section before being moved, wow.

mebby...just happens I was looking into cloudhash right before OP posted here. are you a shareholder? or familiar with user BitManiac? Like I was saying... I want to believe...

anyway, give the guy a break for asking an honest question
n00bz got nowhere else to post

I've talked to cloudhashing and has confirmed the latest BFL order preordered in April. They are a (newly) registered company, Technology IQ LTD in the UK. I think it's actually a pretty legit mining operation, should be easy to take legal action if they do run away. Despite the newness, the operator has done quite a lot of research.

FYI, just because something isn't a scam doesn't mean it is a good investment - you really need to judge that for yourself.

Disclosure: I wrote this post before agreeing to advertise cloudhashing in my sig.

EDIT:  NOTE IT SEEMS THERE ARE 2 VERY SIMILAR NAMED COMPANIES.  LEAVING MY ORIGINAL POST BELOW BUT AN NO LONGER ASSERTING THIS IS DEFINITELY A SCAM.


It's a scam then.

Technology IQ limited is private limited company registered in 2004.  It's inactive according to Company House - hasn't filed accounts since 2007.  By no means could it be considered a newly registered company.

Technology I.Q. Limited
Company Number: 05090982
Company Type: Private limited with share capital
SIC Code: 5186, Wholesale Of Other Electronic Parts And Equipment

Note that the nature of the business isn't even consistent with what he's claiming.  He's just using the name of an inactive company hoping noone would do any due diligience and would just take his word that was his company.

Took all of 30 seconds to figure that out.  30 seconds it seems most people won't use to verify even basic facts.  It's VERY easy to check details on UK companies.

Looking slightly deeper not only are they inactive they actually dissolved:

Date   Filing Details
14 Apr 2009   Final Dissolution   
30 Dec 2008   First Dissolution (Gazette)

At time of their last accounts (2nd Nov 2007) they had total assets of £96,913 plus total liabilities of £137,227. They were due to pay £137,227 to creditors and were owed back £86,327 from trade debtors. The company's current book value was £-40,314.

So no shock they ended up folding.

There's no newly reigstered company with the same name (don't think you could even create one with same name).

So yeah - Scam.

Hmm?

Name & Registered Office:
TECHNOLOGY IQ LTD
145-157 ST JOHN STREET
LONDON
ENGLAND
EC1V 4PW
Company No. 08418155

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 25/02/2013

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

I entered the company no on http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

Looks like there is two companies in the UK with a VERY similar name. ::)
(I lookup everything that claims to be a company, btw)

I use DueDil myself - guess the one you found is too new to have got through to their records yet.

Still strange that their website doesn't mention that Ltd company at all - any company with Limited Liability is meant to ensure that it's prominently stated.  It's not allowed in the UK to claim limited liability later if it's not disclosed in advance (though that hasn't stopped Giga trying it - maybe laws are different in the US).

Was any evidence offered to show that company is actually behind it?

Hi,

That can be found in

https://www.cloudhashing.com/contact

I have asked the webmaster also make it available at

https://www.cloudhashing.com/about-us

Kind regards

Thanks - so we now we know the £15 and 5 minutes were spent to create a Limited company.

Is there any proof that the far more significant sum was spent to buy the hardware?  Presumably there's purchase orders /receipts in the company name which can be produced and verified by BFL.

That plus some explanation of the math and this could be legit.

Though still puzzled why if you already have hardware that will make (by the site'e estimates) a 500%+ profit in the first year you'd want to give away 90% of it in return for a loan you don't need.  It's not like you can now order more ASICs at the same price - or with the same delivery time.

Hi,

Though still puzzled why if you already have hardware that will make (by the site'e estimates) a 500%+ profit in the first year you'd want to give away 90% of it in return for a loan you don't need.  It's not like you can now order more ASICs at the same price - or with the same delivery time.

That's the aim of business, get capital and make the business grow. I aim to get to 50thash by this time next year. So orders for contracts get us there.

That plus some explanation of the math and this could be legit

Easy, use the bitcoin profitability calculator. You will see that we are using an estimated higher difficulty. Yes this is an estimate and any figure we use will be scrutinised as too small or too big. We think our estimates are realistic.

Is there any proof that the far more significant sum was spent to buy the hardware?  Presumably there's purchase orders /receipts in the company name which can be produced and verified by BFL

I provided this to forum members and paid customers. I don't see why I need to show bank statements etc. I have a snippet from bfl below for one of my orders

Your Order #100019552 (placed on March 5, 2013 4:50:53 AM CST)
...Hello,

I am not sure that I responded back to you or not but wanted to let you know that we have received your payment..


I have attached your order information.



Dave
Butterfly Labs, Inc.
Account Manager
913-271-6744

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:53 AM, <emmanuel@cloudhashing.com> wrote:


Hi David,
 
Receipt for my payment. Should take 3 working days to reach you
 
Please watch out for it.
 
Kind regards

That is a ridiculous comment. Just because its a newly setup company doesn't mean work and effort has not gone into its inception way before.
Because you can't setup a service doesn't mean you should slate others that try.

It is hard enough to get a reputation online without people who chose not to read through a website blurb all over the internet what they choose not to research - namely company information.

Kind regards and good day

Sorry if you read it wrong.

My comment wasn't meant to imply that was the ONLY work you'd done - clearly from your website you've done a LOT more than that.

But that's the only work that the existence of a Limited Company proves - that was my point.  As some people mistakenly believe that the fact a company actually exists it, of itself, prove of some major commitment - when it's not (in the UK at least - some countries it may be tougher).

I DO like the approach you've taken with contracts (similar route to Gigavps) - it's the sensible way to get around the otherwise thorny issue of having to register as an FSP.

A very glib answer - which totally misses the main issues.

First off, your results CAN'T be duplicated by using the bitcoin profitability calculator - as difficulty isn't the only factor which comes into play, especially for the perpetual contract.

With the perpetual contract a lot of the potential comes from the reinvestment.  But what that deliver isn't ONLY affected by difficulty - but also by the price of additional hash-power.  Without knowing what price you're assuming expanded capability will be able to be bought at there's no way anyone can possibly attempt to validate your projections.  If you're estimating returns of 6 BTC on a 1 BTC investment in first year then with the returns only representing 60% of mining output that means 3 BTC minimum must have been reinvested.  So depending on how you believe expansion will be priced the actual mining power/contract at the end of a year is going to be somewhere within a large range very much higher than the initial power bought.

And on pricing you face a bit of a two-edged sword:

If supply is (as at present) totally unable to meet demand then price for hardware will continue to rise (on the secondary markt if not the primary) and delivery will take a long time - meaning the benefit from extra investment will be a lot less (and a lot later) than a naive model may assume (and I've seen some terrible models where cash available for reinvestment was assumed to automagically instantly turn into active hashing power).

At the other extreme, once supply surpasses demand then mining will return to where it has historically been - with more miners joining rapidly until profits are slim to non-existent.  At which point reinvestment just becomes throwing good money after bad with, as usual for mining companies, yourselves taking your 10% cut from TURNOVER even when no profit is being generated (due to payments to contract owners going out at a rate slightly slower than the assets they own depreciate).

That's why my question about selling it in the first place (if it exists - glad to see you ordered at least something, but it could be 1 Jalapeno for all a quoted email proves).  The returns you've offered MAY be possible on what you've currently ordered - but definitely WON'T be possible on later batches.  Shocking as it may be, there's loads of other people planning to do the same thing - and once you all try doing it, none of you end up with the expected profits.  That's the nature of BTC mining - that it's very briefly NOT the case is an exception caused by a lack of supply during the transition to new technology.

Hi,

Its one thing to question our legitimacy. However, management consultancy or business advice is not what we are requesting. Merely not to be painted in a negative manner.

Warmest regards

Those comments were not so much addressed at you as at potential investors - who should always be wary of any investment claiming likely returns without revealing the basis on which they were estimated.  If you've been around here for a while you'll likely be well aware of how badly people got burned investing in fixed-rate mining bonds (in particular - but mining investments in general) before.

Any credible model has to address issues well beyond just hash-rate - things like projected BTC/USD exchange-rate are critical.  It only needs a badly wrong estimate on one such factor (or totally ignoring its impact) to make an otherwise reasonable projection entirely useless.  As you refuse to explain how you arrived at your suggested returns it's pretty hard for anyone to verify them.

There's also some detail in your contract which could use clarification.  As an example, consider the situation where the price of new hardware makes purchasing it non-profitable.  Do perpetual contracts still invest 30% in expansion even though it won't make a profit?  If not, where does the 30% go?  Does that change if the issue is seen as likely to only be short-term?

Is a 10% management REALLY expected to cover ALL costs?  Even if BFL rigs end up failing after only a year?  Seems hard to see how 10% can cover all costs AND also cover replacement for ALL units when they eventually fail.  Or is that when "perpetual" ends?

Are investors paid on what you actually mine or on PPS?  That's kind of an addendum to the previous point - as if their machine breaks down do they then get zero income from 1 GH/s of non-functioning hardware?

Is the 30% reinvestment done at cost - or at a similar markup to the original investment?  The contract is strangely silent on specifically how the increase in capacity is applied.

What happens if BFL fail to deliver by July?

etc etc

The devil's always in the details - and you've provided very few of those.  Choosing whether to invest or not is about far more than whether something is a scam.  There's also the minor issue of whether it will be profitable.  That's even more critical on an investment like this which appears to offer no exit strategy.

hey guys i found this new site called cloudha...... oh .. you are already talking about it -_-


Anyways, I agree with most of the critics here. So cloudhashing is somewhat similar to Asicminer .. the only difference is that they dont create their own ASIC's ... Biggest loophole in this is the fact that Cloudhashing is relying on (apparently) BFL products, a company who is more interested in winning the beauty pageant contest with their rigs rather than actually deliver them.
I wont blame them, Who would wanna sell a MINT ? right ? hahaha


IF this cloudhashing thing is real I'd like to sell my kidney & invest :D hopefully if BTC is priced at 1000k by next year I SHOULD get enough money to get a new KIDNEY :D :D and then some :D

But who is gonna tie the knot around the cat's neck ? in other words WHO will verify this company's existence and authenticity ?

Well the company exists - i.e. is registered.

Whether they actually have orders for the claimed hardware is unknown - seems very likely they ordered something from BFL, but whether 1 Japaeno or 20 mini-rigs is anyone's guess.  Most likely GUESS (and that's all it is) would be that they've ordered some gear are planning to buy rest with funds they raise but are claiming to have ordered all as it sounds better.  Whether they intend to actually pay out is also anyone's guess - exactly same chances as when you send money to anyone else without any track-record or history here.  Some of them are genuine - a lot aren't.  Are the odds good enough to gamble (which is what it is - as there's a significant non-zero chance it's a scam)?  Depends how much you like gambling.

Address seems to be a mail-forwarding address which is never a good sign but not exactly hard evidence of anything wrong.

Will you make a profit if you invest?  Can't verify their figures but IF they have preordered the hardware and IF BFL deliver before too long and IF they aren't scamming then you'd probably make profit if you're in the first bunch of shares.  Later batches (where hardware DEFINITLEY isn't ordere yet) it's highly unlikely the profit will justify the risk until you're sure they're paying out - at which point it's too late anyway.

My recommendation?  If you're serious about investing then require proof they bought ALL the hardware they claim to have ordered BEFORE the date they started taking orders.  If they can't/won't prove it then walk away - there's no reason for them not to prove if they actually ordered.  And if they haven't ordered all but are doing a pre-order thing then they already lied once so zero reason to trust them again.  If, on other hand, they DID order it all then there has to be very good chance they're genuine - which is certainly unlikely to fail to make a profit (whether anywhere near what they estimate depends very much on how early their orders were and just how soon BFL actually ship).

Do also make sure to check WHEN they'd start paying.  Is it as soon as they start mining or is it a few months later after taking the best profits for themselves - from memory there was something on the site that suggested they wouldn't pay anything until July even if the machines arrived tomorrow.  And make sure to get clarification on what happens if BFL don't ship on time, the machines break down etc - if you have a 1 year contract then it ain't much use if you end up not mining at all for some of it (is it 1 calendar year or 1 year of actual mining?)

All these unresolved details are one reason why you should always be very wary of dealing with anyone who posts stuff up and offers only the choice of order/don't order - without any clear mechanism for resolving/clarifying queries BEFORE parting with cash.

Sent you a series of emails as discussed.

Thanks

I have expressed my concerns in the thread he's advertising his services on here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.0

This is awful fishy

I received some emails from him after having expressed reservations about this project.

I haven't had (or got today) time to look at them in great detail - but on the face of it, it definitely seems as though he DOES have orders for the hardware he claims to have ordered (I have order numbers, screen-shots of amounts paid etc) and that at least the majority of those were ordered and paid for before he began selling shares to the public.

That's obviously a vast step up from most such offerings.  And the way he's dealt with my criticisms/comments IS what I'd expect from someone who was legitimate rather than a scammer.

I can't say with certainty that what I was sent wasn't edited/faked - but if he gives permission I could ask BFL to verify that the orders he's shown to me exist, are in his name (which I have) and are for what he claims they're for.

I've also seen some evidence of sales - though that's harder to verify.

Whilst I'm not going to vouch for this or anything I'd say there's a very high chance that he intends to do *and is capable of doing) what he's offering to do.  How profitable it wil be is for investors to decide for themselves (and largely depends on what BFL do - which is beyond anyone's ability to predict).

Copy of my post from the other thread on this subject...

[Edit 13th April]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176262.0

We have been reviewed and cleared

I doubt you will ever get an ASIC Mini Rig the power specs put them at crazy watts and they've been 2 weeks away from delivering since October
2012.

"I doubt' meaning your opinion.

A private limited liability company just means we cannot sue you personally so not that impressive.

Nip picking here. What would you prefer? Even when Lehman went bust, who is seeing the individuals? Look a limited company makes the best sense for what we are doing. There are many people who do the same. Besides, your point is no entirely true. If I am found to have run a fraud, I can face jail time. This is law, period!!!

Date of Incorporation: 25/02/2013 only a month or so ago, so no trading history, no accounts, there could be £1 in the company which means as soon as someone sues it folds leaving outstanding creditors with nothing.

As the proof documentation sent to 2 HERO members show, I bought the hardware before selling a share to the public.

A private limited company is restricted from selling shares to the public so you call them "Contracts" but the fact you offer "pay-out" and "reinvestment" makes them sound like shares, instead of a product or service.  

Calling them contracts is not an issue last time I checked legally. Pay out is in virtual 'currency' not cash. Reinvestment is in additional hardware.

If you want to sell financial contracts in the UK the law says you need to register with the http://www.fca.org.uk or you could go to jail if someone reports you to them first!

Reading my terms and conditions, if you bothered to....you will see I am selling computing processing power. Its more like a service. Nothing to do with financial instruments. And I am very proficient with financial instruments.

Warmest regards

I have posted this in the cloudhashing thread but it seems not to appear so i'll repost here. (To Moderator, please delete which ever of the two if my previous post does appear.)

What are your fault tolerance policies if a minirig failed? I assume that one minirig could hash at a rate of 1500GH/s (as per BFL's advertising) and assuming that 1GH equates to a minimum of one contract per GH, then 1500 contracts would be affected.

BFL have not issued the specifications of the minirig and I am assuming it has no fault tolerant hardware or High Availability hardware either; such as hot swappable PSU's or ASIC racks if there was a failure within the minirig. If this was the case, perhaps you should look into having a redundant fail over cluster to deliver the hashing capacity as promised by your contracts.

Scenario 1 : Full device failure - we will be given a replacement within 24hrs by BFL as per our SLA. Our host partner is in the same city as BFL.
Scenario 2: Hash rate is less than quoted i.e. 1450 instead of 1500. - we have a 20-30% tolerance with each machine. Meaning our cut of the machine gets hit. Not our clients.


As above, we have a 24 hour agreement. Same day if possible. This means minimal down time.

Hope that answers your questions

Kind regards

Scenario 3: BFL closes shop and no longer can support your SLA.

What generic hardware can be used in this scenario to replace components on your minirig if this was to happen?

EDIT
=====

From your T&C:

"This contract shall expire when bitcoin mining becomes unprofitable at which time the parties may extend it by agreement in writing."

Does this mean the contract holder needs to fork more money out to maintain the business model?

In your T&C, there is no mention of what availability you would promise to contract holders. What percentage of availability do you promise on contract holders? 90%? 99%? 9.9999%?

If I knew the answer to that, I would be a Bitcoin hardware manufacturer than a service provider :-). However, we are looking to use additional mining hardware to limit our exposure to BFL. Unfortunately Avalon's solution is not workable as the power requirements is sky high to be scalable. We will continue to monitor the market for such opportunities.


That is not what that sentence means. Its is a general maintenance contract phrase. If the service can no longer be supported for one reason or another, for mining its down to profitability, then we can decide to do 2 things

1)  sell the hardware and return the sales proceeded to our customers.
2) Use our cash reserve to continue till no more money is available.


It is not there because we would be foolish to promise something we have no measure of yet. Once the hardware arrives and we have it running for a while, these kind if things can be written into the T&C.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Proof of last 3 Mini rigs for cloudhashing.com.

Enjoy

forum posts use bbcode, not html.

Well, I guess the only way that we will know is if people actually use it & give reports. There is no point in speculating whether it is or is not.

Yes. I am not changing my opinion of this looking like a scam until an actual user of the service reports otherwise.

Someone that can make a nice website such as cloudhasing.com can also alter documents for proof in Photoshop with ease.

That document proves nothing IMO.

Since you have posted the image of your order showing that the minirigs would be delivered to the UK,. This contradicts  what you have stated on your previous posts that the minirigs would be housed in a US location close to BFL, thus reducing downtime within a 24hr window. Please explain.

Proves nothing because you're hiding the delivery name and address so the assets many not even belong to the LTD company but directly to Emmanuel Abiodun.

He is hiding? You can obviously make it out that it belongs to him (not the LTD).

Hi,

Check the BFL forums, you will find that you must send an email to BFL and the hosting partner after making the order. BFL then deduct the first month's hosting cost from the delivery charge as its basically in the same city. This process is not handled in their standard order process.

Seems like you guys want an on going argument and not proof. No matter what is sent to you, you will challenge it. :-)

A bit childish if you ask me.

Not true. Out terms and conditions actually specify that for indefinite contract holders, the device belongs to the contract holders (our clients). We merely charge a maintenance fee. These are handled by the legal terms not a PO. I handle the orders so specify my name as a contact.

I do appreciate your willingness to protect your forum members, however it seems like no matter what we post or send as proof will not suffice until BFL deliver. Lets just do that and wait.

I am a little disappointed as the bitcoin community is not as anti business as this forum seems. A simple attempt to advertise our service has turn into nothing more than an opportunity for you to have a war of attrition which does both parties no good.

Kind regards

I have corresponded via email with Emmanuel from cloudhashing.com.

I have learned that they have a couple of the Butterfly Labs machines on order. Emmanuel also told me that they are in communication with the BFL people and that he expects the BFL machines to be delivered soon.

I have two smaller BFL machines on order and part of the reason I wanted to correspond with them is I figure that if they bought a couple of US$30,000 machines, they would know more about BFL delivery dates than anyone.

My intuition is that the cloudhashing folk are NOT scammers. Yes, they are charging twice as much per GigaHash as you would pay if you bought a BFL machine on your own. On the other hand, they will maintain the machines. If BFL delivers my machine and a few months down the road I have a problem with my mining rig, I am sort of SOL.

I was trained as a scientist in grad school. That means, I wait for evidence before I make some accusation. There is no reason to believe that Cloudhasing is a scam. They might not get their mining rigs delivered, but that doesn't mean they are a scam. Emmanuel assured me that if they do not get delivered, all contract purchases will be refunded.

I do not have any financial interest in Cloudhashing, and have not yet bought any contracts. I just responded because it bothers me when people make accusations that are unsubstantiated.  State your beliefs, but if you are going to make a statement that is accusatory, please provide evidence.

Looks like they're accepting PP and CC too. Chargeback if it doesn't work  ;)

I am grilling you to see how well you hold up to objective critiques. Unfortunately, the proof that you have submitted is not enough; i.e. the order you posted with a UK delivery address and some people have expressed worries.

I believe the questions and opinions given are valid and any person who is in the business would ask. If you present yourself as a new company into a community of bitcoin miners, I believe to be reasonable that you should be expected to go through a grilling process which helps me, and others, to understand better your plans, and how your business model works. Think of it as dragons den; we are the possible investors willing to invest in an idea and you are the guy with the proposal but need investors to make it a reality. We will grill you and depending on how you answer my questions and others from the community, I might conclude that either; a) you are a serious company with a solid business plan with fault tolerant systems in place intending to set up a business implementation that may survive for many years, b) a company attempting to implement a high risk business model where technical/sourcing flaws exist, or c) a scam.
So my critique here is as my previous opinions given before whether you want to take it or not, and why should potential customers (us the mining community) invest in your business plan that is centrally based on a product that no one has seen or observed any demonstrable activity? i.e. hashing.

As a last point, children don't normally ask technical and challenging questions and so far with your condescending comment, you are not holding up to my expectations as a serious company who are seeking customers within the bitcoin mining community.

What is the best predictor of future behaviour? Analyse the person's past and present behaviours. I'll explain.

BFL have a terrible shipping track records and you should take this fact into account because it is fact and there is no denying it. I ordered in late February and cancelled in April because orders where supposedly shipping by January when I looking up their website. What happened? They got further delayed! This pattern was observable since 2012 and this is not recent phenomena. They have been accepting pre-order monies since summer 2012 (many claim they lost their money due to the "no refund policy" especially if paying in bitcoins as sales are final) and delaying month after month causing an angry bitcoin community which I can understand their anger and frustration.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392

You should also take into account the past and present evidence and data available (there are accusations with no evidence and are not true but some accusations do come with proof in the form of images and videos so please view the latter address I have posted ref Bryan Micon) that exist so that you can make an informed decision of where you want to invest.

An analogy to what is happening that if you were to write a systems paper with half baked solutions, your paper won't even be accepted in conferences (unless its a 6 page systems workshop paper or a work-in-progress paper); you must describe a problem, describe a solution, and provide data to back up your claims. What is happening in the bitcoin community is that there are people who write papers that have describe a problem, have no data or a demonstrable test bed and describe half baked solutions.

I will not say that BFL is neither real or a scam until I see a fully working product. Due to that I am basing judgement on my previous experience with BFL, I will not pre-order anything from any company until I see a proof of concept that is demonstrable.

Unfortunately there have been a long string of scammers over time and I believe that if companies want to make a good impression, the least that they can do is showing to the bitcoin community that their idea works and is demonstrable.

They have sold 5249/6000 contracts.
That means at least 53 people have invested in this (maximum 100 contracts / person), but probably the number of investors are a lot higher.

Assuming those numbers are real, would not at least one of the investors say something in this thread?
If I were to invest money into something, and that company is accused of being a scam, I would try to be a part of that discussion, at least saying: "I invested in this company because the seem legit to me because of xxx and yyy".

<speculation>
Another possibility is that 5249 is a fake number, to give the sense of
"omg, > 80% of the contracts has been sold already, I better hurry up and buy".
</speculation>

Hi,

Not all contracts have been sold online. Some were actually sold to piers and organisations we had done business with previously. Also contract prices were lower at the advent but as prices rose, we had to look to raise our prices also even though we already had a paid for pre order as subsequent orders to BFL will be more expensive.

We are doing well with our online sales given the current dip in BTC price.

I provide proof of purchase, you will say its doctored,  I think anything I provide will have the same comment from this group. Best we wait for BFL delivery before commenting further.

Kind regards

A LTD Company is a legal person so all orders should be in a bold type name like "COMPANY NAME LTD" or you're breaking the law.
A LTD Company cannot offer to sell it's shares to the public, or your breaking the law.
For a LTD to sell financial contracts, issue e-money or shares of anything, you need to register with http://www.fca.org.uk or you're breaking the law.

Even MtGox cannot get a bank account in the UK. They take regulations seriously here.

Pretty sure that the BFL equipment will use 2-3 times as much power as they initially suggested. That's if it turns up.


This is mostly semantics, so it comes down to wording. They are obviously not selling financial instruments, shares, vouchers or e-money.

All they have to do is properly word their material so that they are selling "Compute Power" or similar and all of your arguments go away.

The comment regarding the BFL being owned by their shareholders.... well they are gonna have to be very careful how they word that because clearly the buyers of these "shares" are not.

In my opinion the wording used by the site and the poster on here is terrible which is the clearest indicator that these guys haven't thought this through properly.

There is no way that they have sold 5500 slices of the pie, that in my opinion is a big red flag to me. I do not believe the whole offline bullshit. This is the largest and really only bitcoin forum going, if they sold that many slices we would have enough people reporting about it by now.

My opinion, they are £60k down and are trying to hedge their losses and are doing so in a terrible way.

That is true about MtGox, they used to have a Barclays account but then it was closed off and now transfers need to go through their polish bank.

Please review our status here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176262.0

We have been checked out and cleared.

cloudhasher, I would like to clarify something...

The "Hero Member" title is not a title bestowed upon someone for their acts or deeds. It is merely a title given to you when you reach a certain post count. (crossposted to other thread)

Yes I am aware of that :-)

Actually.. I got my "Hero Member" status after saving 2 babies and a kitten from a burning building.

So I bought a couple contracts today.  And I have a couple problems already.

1.)  I can't log into my account.  There is no place to even log in.  So I don't even have an account.  It's like you buy it and wait and see. 

2.)  The contract count did not go up after I bought. I bought 3 contracts, it stayed at 5412/6000.  Even after they were confirmed.  Maybe it updates later.

3.)  Once all the contracts are sold, no more can be bought by new customers.  Only existing customers can buy the old contracts.  So eventually all the customers will be dead, what then?  And they could be down to one customer some day.  It's like John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run, we're all dead."

4.)  I asked customer service about my id and password, they replied, "Someone will contact you shortly."  How long is shortly because that was over an hour ago?  Granted it is Sunday. 

5.)  A few typos on their website.  Punctuations, spaces, commas, and such.  Should be spotless.

Anyway, these are my objections.  But I still bought.  I understand growing pains are expected.

With the current power requirements of the Jalapeno, you can draw  a linear function graph (in the form of (ax + b = c) to predict how much a minirig would use. If you average the jalap at around 40W/h consumption (varies from 30W to 50W), the minirig would need about 10MW or 10000W of power. If you have 6 minirigs like what cloudhashing has purchased, you would basically need a nuclear reactor which produces on average of approx 800MW to 1100MW of power which is unrealistic to power up the minirigs! BFL have missed their power consumption goals by 666.67%.
But then I leave it to BFL to produce something as it is still not May... which is in 3 days :D

You're pretty much the problem with Bitcoin. Noobs are expected to do stupid shit because they are noobs, which practically means stupid. But to do something you know is stupid INTENTIONALLY...sigh.

Please read Personal responsiblity and the Ponzi scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106391.0) and review your community-damaging behavior. You are bad for Bitcoin, leaving alone how bad you are for yourself.

I think you meant 100 KW not 10 MW (=approx 30W *1500GH/5GH). Six minirigs would therefore need 600 KW, which is still high. I read that ordinary racks use up to 2.4 kW each, but I guess 600 kW is within the capabilities of a specialist hosting centre. No nuclear power plant needed.

Im taking a calculated risk. Something people do all the time in free societies.  You can't win if you don't play.  Has nothing to do with being a noob.  Some people thrive on noob bashing.  How do you know I'm a noob,  just because I don't post a lot?   Please don't answer that. This thread is not for this discussion.

I've done my due diligence, my research.  It's premature to call this a ponzi scheme.  But the fact that they will only take 6000 contracts and no new customers is good in that respect.  Only existing customers can buy expired contracts.

Who died and made these guys kings? The walk around making accusations with NO evidence whatsoever. The sad thing is people listen to them because they have spent more time living on this forum than living real lives.

Anyways Joe - we have recently added 2 Terahashes of Avalon chips to our arsenal. We are literally one of the first 10 orders by using TerraHash.com. This means your July contract could possibly start in June.

Its what we do time after time, put our money where our mouth is.

Kind regards

A person named Emmanuel Abiodun (also the name of the owner of CloudHashing) was convicted of wire fraud, credit card fraud and identity theft. Sources:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aRl_taI8X3UY and http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1470251.html

A person by the same name has been trying his hand at Nigerian 419 scams. One source: http://www.419scam.org/emails/2010-06/10/01093583.1.htm. You can find more by Googling.

Now I am not saying these are the same people, but use your head.

I am British and live in London.

Did you actually read that article or just couldn't wait to spread filth and conjecture?

Hi all,

I for better or for worse I gave "Emmanuel" the benefit of the doubt having gone through this thread early this morning. Much of which I found completely mean spirited. This place is sometimes just like a cross between IRC and Newsgroups of 1993 on a good day.

I posted some feedback at the end via the contact form about login details received and lack of account URL.

He came back quickly and I left my phone number. He called me back and we had an interesting chat, which I recorded with his permission.

The crux of our conversation relevant to this forum ran as follows:

The counter is updated - every 12- 48 hours, to allow for refunds.
2% of people ask for their money back. He didn't want people to see the counter roll back - Christ that would cause even more questions here!

Nigeria he were he is from, but on the phone I can assure you he sounds extremely English and is based in London.

Here is the telephone conversation
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1745534/cloudhosting/call_09-06-55_IN_XXXXXXXXXXXX.AMR

I am sorry about the poor normalisation of the recording - but it's raw and uncut. Cynics pick away, it's just a record of the conversation we had.

Emmanuel Abiodun - yes, well when I asked him about this, it's very common name in Nigeria apparently. A bit like John Smith in the UK or the much maligned Jon Doe of the United States.

With regards to equipment and deliverables, fast forward to about 25 minutes into our conversation:
I'm paraphrasing the gist of it: The contracts he is offering on his site is for hardware he already has.

So if you want to lay into him and his company a bit more, go ahead but perhaps with the courtesy of listening to the first 30 minutes of our chat recorded on the 27th May linked above. 30 minutes onwards is mainly us rabbiting on. (I don't suggest you bother wasting you life listening any further)

I've decided haven't got a cat in hell's chance of editing it. So here it is linked in this posting.

Cheers Mark

As a company, we at Cloudhashing value most importantly our customer relationships, and with bitcoin being a quickly emerging industry, we recognize the importance of verifying legitimacy and reputation. Like all new businesses, there is an ongoing effort to build solid customer and business relationships, and we appreciate those who extend us their trust, but fully understand those who are cautious or concerned, and we hope that we can over time gain their trust.

We have provided in numerous cases copies of receipts of purchase of equipment, and we have broadened our Vendor base to include multiple suppliers of equipment to ensure that we can meet the growing demand of our customers and to buffer the variety of lead times that our Vendors are up against. We believe our model offers fair payouts to our contract subscription customers and we have been forthright and clear with all parties inquiring about services purchased and when they go into effect.

Below (at the bottom of this message) are a few examples of our legitimacy, that we hope will help some of you better understand us and our willingness to be as transparent as possible.

We are confident in our service model and infrastructure, and believe in the bitcoin movement wholeheartedly as a both business and individuals.  We will continue to uphold our commitments to being responsive and communicate with integrity.  As we learn more of the market conditions that we are all subject to with regards to hardware delivery challenges, we will share them, along with the victories of services starting.

We are happy to and will continue to provide proof of our commitment customer support, communication and reliability. Feel free to direct any questions directly to us, via the contact us section of our website http://www.cloudhashing.com/

Examples as follows:

Third Party News Article on Cloudhashing Services http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-maas-mining-as-a-service-coming-soon/

Cloudhashing Company Newsletter: http://tinyurl.com/cloudhashing

Proof of one of several ASIC Purchases: https://i.imgur.com/wUtMl8P.jpg

Legitimacy Verified on BitCoinTalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176262.0
Search for: Shared Mining Services

Phone Recording of Customer and Cloudhashing: http://tinyurl.com/cloudhashing-phonecall

SCAM. End of story

200+ useless posts in about a week.  It's pretty clear you're just flooding the forum with 1 liners in order to get your post count up, probably so you can eventually sell your sig for 0.1BTC.  Sad.

i like your concept... you might want to consider outsourcing IC design and build your own rigs based on Avalon references instead of relying on suppliers like BFL and may be even sell some of that hardware aka bitfountain approach... or if you could research in custom mining equipment for scrypt algos you'd probably the first to start the scrypt asic race... :)
btw has BFL delivered any of your orders yet?  may be it's not too late to get BFL refund you money and invest that in custom mining hardware...  just curious to know what your long term plans are... :)

With all due respect, one problem I'm having with cloudhashing is the inability to log into my account properly.  I have to refer to an email they sent me to get the link to my account.  I can't just log in from their home page.  I'm hoping this is fixed soon.  Thank you.

Hi Joe,

Our new website launches within days. It will resolve the issue you mentioned. Thanks for baring with us. Follow us on twitter or subscribe to the e-letter for updates.

Cloudhashing Team

New website launched.

New site looks great! Having a little trouble logging in at the moment but other than that I love it!

Hey,

Email info and I will get it sorted

cloudhasher

I will buy a contract please send me a pm. I want to ask a question or two.

Why not call me on our company number. Its on the website contact us

I got a pm from cloudhasher and I decided to buy a 1 + 5 gh = 6gh contract for 700 usd. I will post more details and let you all know if he is good or bad. I paid asking price and did not get a  discount but he told me all buyers will get a  free boost to contract come this sept. not sure how long that offer is good for.

  To give  some background on me. I am a miner have been mining since aug 2012.  I am a  few coins ahead with my gpu farm, but the time has come to end my gpu farm.  I am a USA, New Jersey resident. I ALSO  have some BFL jallys on order.  I have a gpu farm. I held some Asic Miner stock sold it and have decided to plow the money back into this site and into a group buy of a bit fury  120Gh/s machine.

link to this group buy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223746.msg2358139#msg2358139

  My point is yeah this could be a scam.
 yeah that group buy could be a scam.
BFL may stop shipping.  total spent on these 3  items  about 1500- 1600 usd.
 my gpu farm made me 3 or 4 grand. going to sell off the farm and use these 3 buys instead. worse comes to worse I am still ahead.

I am in the process of paying for this with google.

Update paid for it:

  I PURCHASED A 1 YEAR CONTRACT FOR 700 USD.  


 I GET 6GH NOW AND A 25% BOOST TO  7.5 GHS COME SEPT.   I will continue to update on this.

I used google payments. With a credit card. gives some protection.  

Note I just deleted a post I made that was wrong.  I went to the website  and clicked on a lifetime contract which would have been 1000 usd. I purchased a 1 year contract. for 700 usd.

 So to sum up. I got a pm that said I will get 6 gh now starts july  then a boost to 7.5 gh .. I will come back to here and let you know how this works out.  Since I used a cc I can cancel and have some protection for about 45 days.

okay made payment got a  google payments cc fraud stop which is common since it is a 700+ usd payment to a company in the UK.  I am attempting to fix it. will post back later today.

Can confirm I got my login issues sorted, and that Cloudhashing have partnered with Bitminter, which gives them a bit more credibility in my eyes

10.06
no promised free test accounts launched

Hold tight. Couple of hours

Could not find what devices are the backbone of your hashing power?
Because if you are waiting for Butterfly to ship .... the name of the contract is pretty much spot on - indefinite :)
 

Avalon, butterfly, Knc.

ok,ty
what is the estimate on the contract mining start date ?

July. Again as all know its hardware delivery dependent. We have diversified our suppliers to have better coverage.

was able to get my google payment to clear so I now have a 1 year 6gh contract.  I was promised a 25% hash bump in sept since I preordered.   I will come back with results as time passes.

Free accounts of 10 Megahash now available. For a limited period.

Free account window now closed

By my calculations:
BRONZE 1 GH/s contract - now starts in Sept

At current difficulty, 1 GH/s earns 0.0322 BTC/day. But as you know difficulty has been skyrocketing. Previously, on avg every 2 weeks difficulty increased 10%, the past difficulty (and looks like coming difficulty) have increased on the order of 20-25%!

If this trend continues, by the time the Sept contract starts (say 10 wks from now, or 5 difficulty adjustments of 20% each), 1 GH/s will only bring 0.0131 BTC/day. A year of such mining (again assuming 20% increase in difficulty every 2 weeks) would only net 0.91 BTC total. Since a 1 GH/s contract costs $150 currently, the price of a BTC would have to be $167/BTC to *break even*, let alone earn back a profit.

Even the best PLATINUM contract at 10 GH/s starting in Sept would only earn back 9.21 BTC at the end of a year (with assumptions above). But in this case, BTC would only have to be $103/BTC to break even.

For comparison, a BFL 5 GH/s ASIC costs $274, so to get the same 10 GH/s power you would only need to spend $548 vs $950 for the Platinum contract.

Your comparison to BFL falls short due to power usage ,  maintenance  cost and baby sitting the gear .

Also your price is wrong. 2 units from  are 548  plus shipping for 2 units is 34 so price is 582 not 548.  Plus power used will be around 75 watts. So 1 year at 75 watts  24/7 is about 105 usd .  Using my  New Jersey price of 16 us cents a k-watt.  Many people are far higher then 16  us cents a k watt.

 So the one year cost of the 2 bfl's is about 687 usd at 16 cents  a k-watt   to 899 usd at  48 cents a k watt.   With a lot of work .     the platinum contract would be 950. with no work.

Bottom line is each method has its upside and its downside,  BTW I have 4 bfl's on order and I have 1 contract with cloud hashing. Plus my soon to die GPU farm.


*_*_*_*_*_*_*_**__**_*_*_*_*__*_**_*__*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_**__________*************_______________*********************__________________


To cloudhasher:

 My contract was pending I was charged 717 for the 1 year contract on my cc. It was listed on your site as pending it appears to have vanished  on your site.  I can see you did an update on the site. I am going to post my experience with your site once a week or so right here on this thread publicly.  So if you want to reply  publicly as to why I dropped off your site please do.  I realize that site updates do cause f' ups and that I am sure my contract will appear again on your website.  Thanks in advance for your attention to this error.

  Best Regards Phil

Hi there

Please PM me your order number or send an email to info. Will have it resolved straight away.

Kind regards

I will pm. 

pm has been sent with my order info.

By your logic, might as well take the $950 and instead of buying a contract, just buy BTC directly. At current price of $101, you could get 9.4 BTC. And just like the platinum contract, if the price rises about $101, you make a profit. If it is less, you will lose money. Oh, and since you are nit-picking, I forgot to include the 10% management fee that Cloudhashing charges, so the platinum would actually earn 9.2 BTC * 0.9 = 8.28 BTC. (https://cloudhashing.com/revenue-reinvestment)

By buying BTC directly, it is even less work than a contract. And, you avoid the uncertainties of whether Cloudhashing would actually have the hash power ready when Sept contracts start.

 

You could be right buying  coin and sitting on it is a move I am doing as I type.

  I am holding 10 coins.
 
 My cloud hashing contract..
  
 I am running a gpu farm 10 pc's 22 gpus  soon to be sold on ebay.

my group buy with swede75 of a 110gh bitfury machine.   just 1/12 of it

4 bfl jallys 2 at 5gh and 2 at 7gh.    

 Multi prong strategy .  

 Every one above could be bad  and result in a total loss.

except the sale of the gpu /pc's  that will bring in money.  

   the cloud hashing contract I purchased starts on july 1st not sept 1st.   it is for 700usd and 6gh then 7.5 gh in sept.   I paid for it with this sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=161027162240#ht_2107wt_1165  

 this miner made coin for me for quite a while  but you can see it was designed to be sold as a decent gamer/htpc or miner machine.  I built my machine this way so they would have resale value.

 When all is said and done  no one should be a one trick pony when it comes to BTC investing.  I am not proving that cloudhashing is good I am acting as a guinea pig and testing the waters for those that have an interest in cloudhashing.com   So far they have not done anything bad and they have been responsive to my problems and questions.
 Come July 1st  I will let you know what they hash for me.
Then July 3rd.  
Then July 5th.
Then July 7th.  

I will post the earnings for this contract  until  oct 1st.   this would be 90 days or 1/4 of the contract.   After that I won't post info as often. 

I am not going to ask for tips to my tip jar or try to profit for my testing of cloudhashing.com .  via a kickback from cloudhasher

This is a free service to the BTC community at bitcointalk.

the worst case I am out about 723 usd as my 700 dollar contract cost me 723 since i used a cc/google payments to pay for it.

 the cc gives me protection for 45 days. since it was an overseas payment I had to pay an overseas charge fee of  23 usd.

So if they were to pay me  Starting July 1st just a few parts of a BTC then BTC dies I would be out the 723 USD.

The prices are ridiculous: $1,000 per 10GH/s - right, they buy the machines from KnCMiner, which cost $7,000 per 350GH/s, and they sell them for $35,000... And they have the guts to say the the estimated yearly revenue for 10GH/s is aprox. 50BTC

Yeah, so we are all going to be rich.

Jokers...

SCAM

Usually don't respond to daft comments but here goes

So quick to jump the gun. Read

https://www.cloudhashing.com/revenue-reinvestment

Our contract holders get additional hashing power monthly. Very hard to so solo mining. Plus no need to worry about hosting etc.

We host in a secure level 3 data centre with reserve power etc.

Happy hashing

No math behind the 50BTC estimated revenue per 10GH/s, that's a joke, like offering 7% weekly interest on a loan.

The only fact is that you are offering 10GH/s that cost you $200 or less for $1,000

If there is any payment at all to your customers, it will come from the revenue collected from new contracts.

Good luck with your PONZI SCHEME

math for 10gh contract 

 use this https://bitclockers.com/calc   

at todays rate of 103 usd
diff of 19 mill 
9gh is used to account for fees of 10%
I put in 1 watt at 1 us cent for power

for the next 7 days.


btc  = 1.65128314
usd = $ 170.31   


I then did a 25% per month jump  which is possible . 

this would give a 1 week payout on the date of july 18 to 25 of $131.39

1) current difficulty is not possible. They are not hashing NOW, so current difficulty will not happen. If they plan in september, multiply current difficulty at least x4, which is the change of difficulty we had from March to this very moment. This is conservative, because as you know the ASIC manufacturers didn't even start to ship units to the consumers.

2) A 25% per month is much less than we are having. Currently we are having 25% every 10 days, which basically means that difficult doubles every 30 days. That increase cannot be sustainable long term, so just use something lower, let's accept your monthly 25% even if it's way too optimistic during a technoglogy change (GPU+FPGA -> ASIC)

So: I'm running your calculations with 80 mill difficulty (x4 the actual one) and 25% monthly increase, no electricity costs, one year timeframe:

BTC EARNED: 7.85184820
Revenue: $ 824.29

So you are actually losing money ($1,000 - $824.29 = $175.71)

7.8BTC generated in one year. Now explain me how the heck do you generate 50BTC from 7.8BTC "reinvesting" 30% of that "profit" that costed you $1,000.

Wake up, 10GH/s cost $200, not $1,000.

I think you are missing some important points here

1) We have not said difficult will not go up. It is the very fact that difficulty increases that by the revenue reinvestment program, additional hashing power is added to client account MONTHLY. This reduces the effect of difficulty in returns by a margin.

2) We have already given customer with July contracts an additional 25% increase in hashing power to compensate for difficulty. This does go some way.

3) No body knows for certainty what the difficult would be 1 year for now so throwing large numbers from thin air is easy to do. People have been going on about 100 million difficulty on June which we have failed to see.

4) BTC price is LIKELY to increase as it does more mainstream (cloudhashing is taking bitcoins mainstream). Customers could see an even higher return on that scenario. A doubling of BTC price is not impossible.

We appeal to those new to bitcoin and also those who do now want to manage hardware.

Very simple to call anything a scam without no ounce of proof something fraudulent is occurring. Borders on slander.

We are not forcing or service on anybody. If you are a techie and want to host your hardware, invest in the hardware. If you simply want a solution with reduced maintenance and hassle then Cloud Hash.

Good day

Prove how investing 30% of an expected yearly revenue of no more than 7/8BTC per each 10GH/s you going to reach the 50BTC yearly return you are advertising for the 10GH/s contract.

If your proposal was serious, you would have a business plan with clear steps towards achieving that return. I'm a miner myself, and every serious miner in here knows that it's impossible to get 50BTC from 10GH/s deployed on September. Impossible. You are advertising an impossible return, therefore there is only one plausible option:

As you are selling the units at a huge markup (350GH/s cost $7,000 or less and you are selling them between $52,000 and $35,000), you will pay old investors with new investors money in order to suck more money into your scheme until it collapses. There is no legitimate business that give investors a 500% return in one year, apart from PONZI SCHEMES -> that's what you are going to run.

Anyone believing otherwise is a fool.

 I had other things to do and stopped my charts. I did enough to show how to get a correct number in the future to anyone that bothers to use the calculator I linked to.

This is the bet you need to decide on with cloudhasher


 If a 10 percent diff  each adjustment  of 10 days occurs  this contract would be okay.


If a 20 percent diff each adjustment of 10 days occurs this contract would be mediocre



 

 As for 200 bucks for 10gh  no one sells that anywhere but I did go in on a group buy and I am getting 10gh for 360 usd .


 a link to the group buy


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223746.0  


  the sale  is over and frankly I have full exposure to a complete loss of 360usd on this purchase with just about 0 ,zip, no recourse if the theswede75 is a scammer.



 It will be very easy to see if cloudhashing is a scam by viewing this thread and seeing how they pay my contract as i said I got a july contract so come july see how they pay me. I will post the results.

FYI: https://www.kncminer.com/

Cloudhashing is buying units from them.

Jupiter = 350GH/s = $7,000 = $20 x GH/s = $200 x 10GH/s


I think you are not getting what "ponzi scheme" means. Old investors get paid with the money of new investors so more people get sucked in because everybody is speaking about how good they pay, until the scheme collapses. I'm quite sure cloudhasing will pay at the beginning, because a ponzi scheme is so much more profitable than a "hit and run" scam. They will just use the huge markup they have per machine to keep paying investors (each 350GH/s unit costs $7,000 and they are selling it for between $52,000 and $35,000 depending on the plan you choose). They will use YOUR money to pay OTHER folks, until the NEW money runs out - then the scheme collapses and they made huge profits, while their customers are left holding the bag.

Fools and their money are soon to be parted.

   I have a degree in accounting and work for the IRS.  My family has a long history of forensic accounting work  my brother is a CPA my wife is a retired revenue Agent as is my mother. Ponzi schemes are not unknown to me.  While you are assaulting this company with no mercy and no proof but plenty of accusation .

  I put my name and my money on the line to test them out. While you may have 2000 plus posts and while you may be correct that they  are a bad deal you have done nothing but make up future projections of network hash rate and difficulty that no one knows are right or wrong.

 Tell me will it rain at 11 Am on sept 1st in New York City,  The answer is ?
 Tell me the hash rate will be 800 th with a difficulty of 80 million on the 1st of sept.  The answer is ?
 So calling these people a ponzi scheme correct the answer is ?
 Calling BTC a ponzi scheme the answer is ?  


 In all cases the same answer  maybe yes maybe no.

I will give you something: Cloudhashing *might* not be a ponzi. There's only another option:

They are blatantly lying to their customers about a fairy-tale return that will never happen. They are selling hardware at x5 or x8 mark-up depending on the contract (plus 10% commision) and advertising a fairy-tale projection they know for sure that will never happen to suck in ignorant customers. The best thing it can happen to their customers? Break-even. But then, this would be just a "hit-and-run" operation (but a very profitable one, just make the calculations), because as soon as investors realize they are barely recouping their money and the advertised 500% return is utter bullshit, no new investors will be sucked in. That's why I believe that greed will take over and that they will start running this as a ponzi, but I give you that they may not: in any case, lying to your customers advertising an impossible return is a scam in my book, even if it may not be "illegal".

About your question: difficulty projections are not like weather forecasting. You can be 100% sure that the difficulty won't be 20 million in September. You can be 100% sure that difficulty will GROW during the following year, it won't be constant as the cloudshare dumbass assumed in the calculations he posted to "demonstrate" how they arrived to the 50BTC per 10GH/s estimation. And BTW, that's a huge red flag (posting that dumbass calculations), I would be extremely worried if I were you.

They have no business plan whatsoever, if you are actually mining you know you won't never ever generate 50BTC with 10GH/s deployed in September, and the fact they say that they will reach that goal by investing 30% of the monthly profits of those 10GH/s makes it even more ridiculous. It's impossible.

Mining is a complicate business. A lot of folks don't understand the variables, how high the difficulty is going to go as soon as KnC or BFL deliver, they have just seen the insane profits Avalon batch #1 customers and ASICminer shareholders and think mining is a goldmine.

Well, listen carefully: mining was never a goldmine - it's a very competitive business in which you have to fight for pennies. If there are a few folks that made huge returns in the last months, it's just because a new disrupting technology arrived to the market (ASICs), and the very few who had this technology had a very big advantage on the folks mining with GPUs or FPGAs. In September you are not going to get a 500% yearly return with hardware bought with x8 markup. In that case, sorry to tell you man, all Jupiter customers are going to be filthy rich, as each one of their units will mine 1,750BTC per year (just reinvesting 30% of the profits, LOL), and they only paid $200 per each 10GH/s. But I'm telling you: that's not going to happen.

More ASICs will arrive to the market, fewer returns there will be. You simply do not get 50BTC from 10GH/s deployed in September, this is hard math. Then, you ask if difficulty will be at 80 million in September? Well, you can be pretty sure that if KnCMiner ships, difficulty will be 80million or above. And BTW, this guys are buying from KnC.

Today is July 1st .  My cloud hashing contract starts today.  Details to follow. I am supposed to be paid bi weekly. My hash rate is supposed to be 6gh stating today. It is supposed to jump to 7.5gh on sept 1st. On the good side if they start count from today 6gh should make about .14 coins today.

I will post in 2 weeks as I am to be paid biweekly. So far the website does not offer much info other then the fact I have a July 1st contract.

Good luck with that. Now they will come up with a BS excuse about delays from manufacturer, etc., and that you will be made whole in the future.

Sure. BTW, you did a very bad choice by investing in a clear scam.

I have been replied to in this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240027.47

Im in the same boat as you. 6Gh as well.  We should compare results.

You're not going to get hashes.

Thankfully governments are good for one thing, and that's honoring contracts.

OK, you will get your 10GH/s (sorry, 9GH/s after CH's commission), for which you paid $1,000, and you will get 3BTC as a return in the first year.

Good job.

Emmanuel explains Cloud Hashing’s risk management plan, investments for the future, a new partner (legal), contracts sales and how he plans to deal with big investors.

http://www.iamsatoshi.com/bitcoin-mining-masses-cloud-hashing/

a quick google search of his name

https://www.google.com.bn/search?q=Adeniyi+Emmanuel+Abiodun&client=firefox-a&hs=EbQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1680&bih=900&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=TcHcUbHhO62QiAfm0YHoCA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAA

oh dear me

All I saw was lots of Facebook pages with similar-named people....

His name in Nigeria is like John Smith in America.

One thing that comforts me.  They're using KNC.  KNC is legit, it's been confirmed. KNC is sponcoring "Life on Bitcoin."  Time will tell when I get that first payment this month

No they arent a scam guys..

Yes they are.

I think you're wrong - they've got a massive opportunity to be the first company to offer main-stream mining shares (that I know of) and they'd be total mugs if they walked away from it for a quick kill.  Obviously they're operating under the same constraints as everyone else trying to get Asics into production - but they've put an infrastructure into place to enable their business - they're placing orders, clearly, and they've got a delivery  date that they can't drag out as long as BFL.  Why are you calling Scam?

Disclosure - yes I've got a contract with them and I haven't received any BTC yet - wasn't expecting to.

This guy seems to like slandering companies with absolutely zero proof that his claims are justified.

Which other company I've slandered?

And would you care to make an escrowed bet with me? I say you will not see 50BTC per 10GH/s in the first year, as they misleadingly advertise to suck ignorant people in their scheme.

Sometimes I would go to the casino with $1000 and lose it all in 1 night.  So I decided to quit gambling and place my money into cloudhashing or other asics.  At least there's a better chance of return than gambling at a casino.  At least that's my logic. 

Rampion - I respect your opinion and you could be right, but I don't see this claim on their site and the figures I looked at when I first signed up seemed relatively conservative.  The figures they're currently showing for their Platinum contract 20 Gigahash/s are:

Estimated 1st year total return: 25.69 to 51.38 bitcoins = $2,607.00 to $5,214.00 (including earnings from transactions and namecoin)

*Using estimates of:
Bitcoin network hashrate = 450 TH/s in September 2013,
Bitcoin network hashrate = 2,000 to 3,000 TH/s in September 2014
Bitcoin price of $100 & September 2014

Rampion -- you're full of shit. You really don't know what you're talking about.

That said, I'm happy to have met Emmanuel at the Bitcoin London conference, and happy with the deal.

KNC is looking promising, and I look forward to the contracts taking effect in September.

They recently changed those estimates, previously they said that a 10GH/s contract (which in reality is 9GH/s because they keep 10% of the advertised hash rate) would have generated 50BTC in the first year. Those are impossible figures as anybody with a brain would know.

But they reinvest your BTC for more hashing power.  I don't know how things are going to work out, but I think the infinite contract holders will make bank.  We're the early adopters, the original investors.  The ones that put our necks on the line, took the big risk.  Time will tell and we shall know soon enough.

Plus, the 450TH/s hasharate estimtion for September is very optimistic. He is counting on no Avalon chips hashing by September, which seems unlikely.

But hashrate estimation is a total black art - there's perfectly legitimate community members (afaik) who've come up with similar predictions https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232670.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232670.0)  It's hard to avoid the feeling that you've got an axe to grind over this - I just wish you'd say what it was.

IMO the sole issue here is whether they provide the hash rate they promised for the contracts in reasonable time - the return, as you well know, is in the hand of the whales/gods. Everything in BTCworld comes laced with Buyer Beware, but I don't see how you can call scam because BFL didn't deliver and then Avalon didn't deliver and then Terrahash didn't deliver, yada yada.  Cloudhashing need to get hashing at some level, very soon, to prove that they can do it, but missing deadlines doesn't mark them out as different from the norm.  What is your issue!

They are  not worth buying from.  Do not buy from them.  They are now late for their July contract   They have so far refused to refund me.   Consider them to be untrustworthy not due to whether  you will make money.  They simply do not honor contracts my contract terms have vanished from the site  I have a copy of it.  

  The problem here is they won't honor the early contracts and so far they won't refund.  This makes them untrustworthy at levels beyond market risk.

  Do not BUY a contract  

  Common sense wise it this :  I have a contract I am going to post  complaints endlessly about lack of refund or payment any sane normal company would refund me .

 Does anyone want to guess what the refund story will be? As I said early in the post I did my contract as a service to the btc community  and that you should wait to see what will happen before you jump in.  so far nothing.  So do not jump in.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.0


also read the thread above.

In their new youtube video they post a BTC address at 0:44
http://youtu.be/Idf3UeZ5ycM?t=44s

I checked blockchain.info and that address is holding 2004 BTC
https://blockchain.info/address/157i5gK7iN4bNAN39Ahuoiq6Tx5TaQukTE

In the blockchain transactions I see "Hal Finney" come up
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2436

Who is he?  What's he have to do with cloudhashing?  And why is he in the transactions?

If you scroll down you'll see a BTC transaction of 2000 BTC.  I'm not very good at following a BTC money trail.  But what's going on here?  Can anyone tell?

looks like a scam to me

they scammed 2000 btc?

Gave concept of video to the marketing company and they ran with it. They possibly took a wallet address they saw online rather than creating a random one.

Simple honest mistake. No need to get in a panic about every little thing.

Regards

If you look at that address, the most recent transaction was in march 22, and the transaction of 2000 btc (the first of that address is of 22 June 2011 !!!

In 2011 probably CloudHashing will never be in the mind of their founders.....

This address never prove anyting....

And i'm one of the customers of cloudhasing waiting for his 2013 indefinite july contract to start..... so what i mean is that i'm sad that cloudhashing has not started the june and july contract at all (at today), but using something that is false as an accusation to say they are scam is not correct, just watching in the link of the address and look at the dates, give the explanation that this is not a proof to move a scam accusation against them. (just to be clear about my point of view).

Best Regards to all.

People accuse BFL of being a scam, and yet BFL has shipped some machines and also run into some delays. Cloudhashing is a start-up company, and faces the same hurdles that all new businesses face in the midst of heavy competition and complexities. If you bought a July contract, until August rolls around it's somewhat early to say anything factual. Most people who complain about not receiving their Jalapeno from BFL don't come here and post that they got it once they receive it. You always hear complaining, but how often do people come and praise the success of others, not as often.

I was just pointing something out. Not really comaining about it.  I just thought it was weird.  I agree, praise is never given. Even at my job, I'm never praised for a job well done because its expected.  But I am criticized when needed.  I will praise CH when things pick up.

Hal Finney : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0

We are mining :-)

http://bitminter.com/livestats/big

Official newsletter to follow. Register for updates.

  okay nice to see something so you are at .5th and your newsletter says if I keep my july contract. you are not going to pay full rate but 10%.   So quick math I spent 700 usd for a 6gh contract that jumps to 7.5gh in sept.   Your website stated July 1st not July 23rd. It had no mention of under payment.   It said a 10% fee and 30% reinvestment of coins earned.  So 100 -10 is 90 x.70 is 63% of the 6gh That comes to  3.78gh hash. for 22 days .

You are going to pay me 10% of 6gh starting today which is .6gh .

Now at the start of July diff was 21 mill it jumped to 26 mill around july 11th. and the averaged diff would be 23.5 mill. I would have earned about 2.5 coins and you would have put about .75 coins into future investment.

Lets say you are a good person and your were sucked in by BFL just like the rest of us. your offer to the early june -july contracts is so so. Well at least I see some hash power.
 

Dear cloudhasher, why cloudhasher is right now not in the Fastest Users list? Thanks.

We are on BTC guild top 20 users. Moving back to bitminter.

which one are you on btc guild?

Private server. Group name is cloudhashing.

i think we need an official cloudhashing thread for the people on here who have bought contracts.

Can anyone who has purchased a cloudhashing contract comment on the effectiveness?  Are you receiving the hash rate you paid for?  Any other pros/cons?

Nope, nothing yet.  Their website UI is really bad too.  And they often don't listen very well when opening a problem ticket.  Although they've always eventually fixed my tickets.  I just have to go back and forth a bunch of times before they understand the problem.  I have one pending right now.

     My first payment is due Aug 5th. So  we will see what they pay. they are hashing on bitminter about 850Gh.
 So the guess is I will get 10%-30% of my contract which is for 6gh.  Although they have it written as  5gh.

 Basically they have been a disorganized mess.  I will post on monday if they pay me some coin. or if they do not pay me.

Cloudhasher contacted  today. I am waiting on a promised payout as of now. I will post if he pays me on Tues.

I doubt this will make anyone feel better and I think its tailored more for BFL but it seems many entities are in the mix together. This is not my site! Found it looking for other info on BFL. Its new so not much exposure and I can not vouch for the validity of what is stated within, or how long it will be up. If it is to be believed its looks like a bunch of backroom deals going on between a few of the bigger players. Screw you little guy, just give your money and shut up. http://bflfraud.com/

I got paid 0.106 BTC today with my 5Gh indefinite contract.  So according to this payment at current BTC price, it'll take me 3.5 years for ROI.  Yeah!

They stated in an email:
"You will also be glad to know that as a sign of good will, for this week we have waived the 10% maintenance fee and reinvestment (RRP). Expect the bi-weekly payout to increase rapidly as our network continues to expand over the next couple of weeks."

So shouldn't I have received ~0.94 BTC for a 2 week mining period?  That is if they waived the fees.  Even if I pool mined with a 7.5% fee, that would be 0.87 BTC.  Maybe they can't pay out this true payment because they don't have enough hashing power yet.  It's all so experimental.  I'm a guinea pig on a wheel. 

They're mining here:  https://bitminter.com/livestats/toplist

You do know that due to BFL delays that payout represents 10 percent of your full mining capacity.

Next payout should be about 25 percent of full capacity as we add more hashing power.

Always give full context.

Thanks

I didn't know that.  10% capacity makes sense.  I did mention above that maybe you don't have the capacity yet.  In so many words, I was right.  We're all trying to figure out how this all works.  At least we finally got paid.  Kudos!! 

Next payment will be 20% capacity at the absolute minimum. Another rig being turned on this week.

Thanks and regards

Emmanuel

Cloudhashing did not have any ASIC equipment until July, 19, 2013 and all payments being made now are coming out of their old GPU farm and the single BFL Minirig referred to on:

http://bflfraud.com/

I was paid.106btc  on tues. 

  I spent about 7.2 btc.

 It is a start in the correct direction.
I will wait 2 weeks and post the next amount. 
I read the  website from the dutchman.

It is an attack on bfl and against cloudhashing. does not make a strong case but who knows.

Skype Name: Emmanuel Hunt

Name: Adeniyi Abiodun

Age: 31

Location: London, United Kingdom

Birth Date: Monday, April 12, 1982

Age: 31

Website: Cloudhashing.com

Benny, Benzo

Skype Name: asicminer

Birth Date: Thursday, January 01, 1981

Age: 32

Location: United States

While this may or may not be true.  What I find interesting is you decide to launch your attacks against cloudhasher the day he starts to pay some coin.  To be frank while I am annoyed at cloudhasher I am also a bit mystified by the timing of your attack.    Well enough drama .

 Here are my figures.  about 7.2 btc paid  ( 717 usd)  and .106 btc collected   > this will be all I post is my original investment and my btc 'collected' or  ' payoffs ' or  'payouts' or "payments".  no opinions just BTC in and BTC out.

The so-called "attack"; otherwise know as "publication of the truth",  began several days ago and it is only coincidental that the above information was provided on the payout date.

Yeah, no worries, ponzi early adopters usually get their investment back.
They should just be banned, because they are about as much a scammer as the ponzi starter.

The gears are slowly turning and oiled as we have recently reached 1.2 terahash. We will be running at 30 percent capacity shortly.
We are not responsible for hardware delays however we didn't just sit down and complain, we acted for our customers. This is why they are now mining and receiving bitcoins from us today.

We will be bringing some serious hashing fire-power in September, unlike everyone else that comes on the forums to boast, we just get our head down and work!!

Our goal is to get the mainstream into bitcoin and we are one of the first bitcoin businesses to advertise our services to the mass media. 70 percent of our customers are absolutely new to bitcoin so I guess we are winning a good battle there. We want hashing power into the common man's hands and not a large pool of wealthy dudes.

Expect great things from us in the next few weeks and months.

Emmanuel

Hi All,

If you are one of the few still waiting to receive a payment. We are still waiting on the last couple of customers to update their wallets. Then we will send them all in one batch. We have pretty much ironed out the kinks in our automated payment process. It does usually take a few iterations to get these sort of things sorted.

Thanks for your patience. BTW we are now at 1.2 terahash. Another BFL minirig should be with us shortly. As I promised in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqOx3O09ol4

We will continue to go to the open market to purchase mining equipment to satisfy our customers if delays from BFL persist. This is what we said we would do, and this is what we are doing. We purchase these BFL mining rigs off Ebay & IRC, period!

<<<<< I do not comment on conjecture >>>>>

Kind regards

The BFL Minirig purchased a while back by Cloudhashing is a 1500 (1.5 Th) gig unit.

Seems as though CH is about 300 Gigs short in their public statements regarding how much hashing power they have........................................................

https://products.butterflylabs.com/1500gh-bitcoin-miner.html

http://mineforeman.com/2013/04/05/butterfly-labs-increases-prices-and-decreases-hash-rates-on-the-asic-bitcoin-mining-devices/

  or bfl gave them 2 new mini rigs at 500gh each or 1th since bfl could not build a 1.5th minirig.

 this means bfl owes them a third  new mini rig to get to 1.5th/  so if my guess is correct CH will jump to 1.7th soon.

 the other 200-300 th   may be some avalon or bfl singles

The photos found here:

http://bflfraud.com/

http://bflfraud.com/7/attachment/007/

http://bflfraud.com/7/edit2/

 of the Minirig purchased by Cloudhashing are clearly of a 1500 Gig BFL Minirig.

It would seem that bondholders are being shorted around 300 gigs of hashing power.

There are no 1500Gh/s minirig's.

Those that had paid-orders for the 1.5THs system are being shipped 3 *500Gh/s units
(of which very early paid-orders have 1 or 2 of the 3 now)

You'd better look at the pix again.  That is an early style Minirig of which many were actually constructed.  Note the TWO power cables which are absent on the current units.  The design was changed for a couple of reasons: 

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1544-wow-so-what-will-mini-rig-sc-power-consumption-2640w-6000w-now.html

"How are Mini Rigs traded in?  Mini Rigs are traded in the same way as Singles.  Up to 50% of the purchase price of new SC gear can be paid for with trade in credit from an older generation Mini Rig or many older generation Singles."

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

A 1500 Gig Minirig was actually sold on ebay.  The listing was removed because the sale was completed off-ebay:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/1840-looking-buy-mini-rig-sc-order-3.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujl-_F7D724

There is much more out there on this matter and things like it if you care to do your homework.

My $.02.

:)

anyone get their payout today?

Hi Guys

Another day another bitcoin. If you possess a July contract, you should have all received your bitcoins. This payout overall was 62% greater than the last (2 weeks ago). Again we took no management fee. I haven’t been on the forums much recently as I am still working to secure more rigs as my service to you with BFL delays still causing a disruption.

GOOD NEWS

We will be adding another 620 gigahashes this weekend. This should bring us up and above the 1.7 terahash mark. We had a few issues in the last 2 weeks with one of the BFL minirigs overheating. Seems like one of the cards was playing up but BFL will be sorting that out within the next couple of days. Overall we are down 80 to 100ghash right now because of it. We also had overall 10 to 12 hours of downtime as the network was down at the Colo.
Overall things are moving full steam ahead.

110 Terahash mine

As I mentioned previously, in September we will be ramping up by adding 110 terahashes to our inventory. This has all been made possible through careful planning and fiscal prudence. We have ZERO venture funding and have done all this thanks to our customers and staff. We expect this mine to be fully operational between the 19th and 26th of September.

Why not offer a bond?

Simple, it is a legal ticking time bomb. The unregulated securities market has mass appeal but an uncertain future. We chose the model we feel offers both our customer and ourselves a better chance of success in light of the tough regulatory battles that may surface in the near future.

Payments

We have ironed out a lot of issues with the payments processing to you. There is still room for improvement but these things as I previously mentioned are evolutionary. We had very few issues this time around.

Right am off to get something to eat. Cheers

Emmanuel

P.s. forgive spelling mistakes; sleep is a valuable commodity these days.

 My investment was 7.2btc

My payments so far :

 Aug  6th   .106 BTC
 Aug 20th  .172 BTC     total of .278 BTC    looking forward to sept. 3rd payment

My payments are the same as yours. Do you have a 5Gh indefinite contract too?

@cloudhasher

My biggest concern is that CloudHashing seems to be founded by the same people from BFL.

But atleast they got more legit payment options, but still don't see Credit Card processing option...

I guess I do. I am supposed to get more hashing in sept. we will see.

I think so.  I know I am.  I have an annual 6Gh taking effect in Sept.  Although I imagine it won't kick in until late Sept.  I originally bought 2 annual 1Gh July contracts for ~$300 USD total.  Then they had a sale and were offering to trade the July contracts for Sept ones.  So now my 2Gh July contracts are 6Gh Sept. contracts for the same price.  I do believe I made the right choice.  We shall see.

I have been thinking of investing in this - has it been shown legit so far?

Time will tell, so far I'm looking at an ROI of ~3 years based upon current BTC price and current payouts.

Hm, guess I might invest. I just locked in my funds in CoinLenders though, meaning I can't access them and not buy a contract in time for the September contract >.<. Might have to do a loan, as this is quite appealing.

3 years ROI is quite appealing? Or you think more hash power will come online shortly?

joae1975, philipma1957 - am I correct in understanding that you still don't yet have the hashing power that you expected?

Cloudhashing can't buy any more Minirigs through the back door.......................

My $.02.

:)

Correct but remember diff goes up,  every 10-12 days.
 
So ,the rise in diff ,the rise in hash, and coin price will determine if I make a profit.


 I have collected .278 btc   against a 7.2 btc investment (coins were 100 usd at that time)  coins are now 110 usd.

Do I think this is the best choice you can make no,  but I do think if you are a spread the risk guy like I am you could buy a contract here and buy some coins to hold.
Maybe buy some asic miner sticks. 

 say a gold 8gh contract for  about 5btc   from cloud hashing

 hold 5btc coin  buy the coin from some one like coinbase.com

buy 5 btc  in asic miner sticks.  from a good ebay seller  or from a good seller like canaryinthemine (search him on this forum) 

so this is a 15btc investment plan. 

you could buy stock in a startup or 2 maybe addiction and labcoin buy 2.5btc worth of each and you put up 20 btc or about 2200usd  .

   I have no idea of what you have to invest but always remember  BTC is high risk so do not risk more then you can afford to lose!!

Ok guys so we just added another 500 ghash. Another 120 ghash is coming online in the next 4 days.

Regards

Emmanuel

 

where are we hashing I would like to look us up

BTC Guild. ID : 246115

thank you; we are number 14 right now

http://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=rankings


Fastest Users (Last Hour)
Rank   ID   Speed
1   256259   6,013.41 GH/s
2   175320   3,715.13 GH/s
3   244042   3,195.19 GH/s
4   206490   2,803.85 GH/s
5   261017   2,716.02 GH/s
6   58814   2,618.94 GH/s
7   215613   2,481.92 GH/s
8   261267   2,334.40 GH/s
9   255991   2,236.13 GH/s
10   261260   2,062.58 GH/s
11   56732   1,972.13 GH/s
12   211598   1,661.97 GH/s
13   257124   1,661.18 GH/s
14   246115   1,542.75 GH/s

I understand the asics arms race and all but if CH has sold thousands of contracts how can they only be hashing at 1.2 Th?  They should ideally be hashing at min 6000 Gh, max 30000 Th. I'm basing that on seeing 6000 contracts sold on their website some time ago and the max a person can own is 5Th. Not sure how they'd regulate that.  But anyway, my point is CH is nowhere near their demanded hashing expectations.  I have full confidence they will get tons of Th when KNC delivers.  We can also add BFL's minirig orders from April '13 whenever that day comes, God only knows.  

I think they are currenly paying out proportionately to their hashing power.  But at the same time, I hope they reward the early adopters like myself who took the risk on them.  People buying contracts now are benefiting from our risk.  A previously bought July 2Gh x1yr contract cost ~$300.  A sept 2Gh contract is $99.  I traded my one July in for 3 Sept contracts.  I'm just wandering, based upon the early adopter reward hypothesis if I made the right decision.

Does this mean that customers will get the hashing power that they ordered now? If not, what overall hashing power do you need to achieve in order for customers to get what they paid for?

Based on the latest payment (0.172BTC for 2 weeks, i.e. about 0.86BTC per week), it looks like customers who paid for 6Gh/s are getting 1.5-1.6Gh/s http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator (put in 1600 Mh/s, but note that the difficulty is increasing every day and the 0.172 BTC was from a while ago, so allocated hashing power would have been slightly lower at the time).

If it is proportional, hashing power will need to quadruple for customers to get what they paid for, and what they paid for is a lot more valuable if received earlier than later.

I was very tempted by CloudHashing based on what was advertised, but the more I look into it, the more I think I might not make ROI based on what is actually delivered.

This just means that BFL is scum and is fucking with customers who paid +1 year ago, giving priority to Cloudscam who is buying mini-rigs through the back door.

That may be true, although I don't know when CH placed their orders. What we can see though, is that CH is not delivering the advertised hashing rate to their customers, which either means BFL is unable to fulfill orders on time even for "priority customers", that CH is allocating hashing power somewhere other than to its customers, or that CH hasn't ordered enough / doesn't genuinely expect the hashing power to come online when they say it will.

It would be very informative to know when CH expects to be able to provide the full hashing power to its customers, and to see whether or not that is achieved.

Note that cloudhashing no longer includes BFL as one of their mining providers. Correct?

Hey guys, i'm another cloudhashing contract holder.  Bought indefinite contract for july.  I paid over $1000 for the market price around june for 5Gh/s.  If they actually gave what they stated, a July start date at 5Gh/s I would of been happy.  At the time of purchase I had read that there was gonna be a June 20th start date.

With the delays and partial mining power I'm receiving, the market price I paid at the time is not justified and it seems kinda screwed up for early investors.  Whether it was out of good faith or not, $/Gh is dropping by the day and I think investors that were delayed should be reimbursed or compensated.  But it is an investment...

What i'm upset with is that while we are mining at limited capacity and while CH is struggling to obtain full capacity for existing contract holders, they are still selling Sept contracts!  If i'm not mining at 100% rate that I paid for by Sept, then CH shouldn't be selling Sept contracts!

Also what irks me is insufficient numbers and updates from cloudhashing.  This was an investment and there are a lot of numbers involved. Hash rate, downtime, capacity, reinvestment, commission. etc.  All they do is drop a random amount of money into my wallet and I have no idea what's going on.  Need waaaay more transparency and these numbers are not hard to provide if they are keeping track as they should be to supposedly be paying us out appropriately.

If you haven't invested yet, I would say don't bother.  Early investors are getting screwed and investing in complete black box.  I will update with more info if anything changes.

Okay, now this is where the thing about regulation comes into play.  Regs to keep the operators honest.  CH could release a report of the number of contracts they sold vs the hashing power they bought, the investments made, the salaries paid, etc...  Things is, how do you know if it's the truth unless there's a regulating body.  I don't think the regulation should come from government.  It should come from the community in the form of an organization or something.  Like the Better Business Bureau in the US, but not as crooked.  For now it's going to come from us.  I'm warning people to not buy contracts as of right now until they start paying what they say they will.  Or until they get honest with the numbers.  I think they're depending heavily on KNC though.  Probably getting like 1000 Jupiters, LOL!  Maybe we'll see some good earnings after Sept.???

@joae1975 if cloudhashing worked like asic miner, then things like contracts sold, income made, salaries paid, etc would be even more relevant and may need 3rd party auditing.  What i liked about cloudhashing's pitch was the very trackable ability w/o needing to know the info above.  We buy a set hash power and we can track publicly known difficulty.  The only thing that's unknown is unexpected downtime, but that could be also be compared with industry standards (eventually).   

The problem is they giving "partial" hashing power with no set number or reporting and expect investors to stick around?  Well people should learn from my early investing that they are not ready.  I have no idea what rate CH is hashing nor do i know what hash rate they are paying me at.

I think regulation of BTC might be against the founding principle of BTC since there is enough transparency within the system if implemented correctly.  I dont' really know.  I'm still a bitcoin newb.  But anyway, CH, please start posting numbers!

well on tues they will send out earnings.  I have two payoffs so far .102 and .176 total of .278 btc I will post what comes on tues

payments are not up and it is weds.

 not good.

Hey,

Payments will be processed within 12 hours. A mixture of technical issues and illness delayed us this time.

Thanks guys


Kind regards

thanks for up date

I went to work sick as a dog a couple weeks ago.  For simple illnesses like colds and such, you must suck it up, it's no excuse.  This makes us nervous.  It can also discourage future customers.  I hope you're okay/well and I hope there's not just one guy running things.

Dude relax !!  Not going anywhere.

My account says I will be paid .211 btc today.  not sure what percent that is.  so far I have been paid

 .106 btc  aug 9
 .172 btc  aug 23
 .211 btc  today

comes to .489 btc so far.  or about 59 usd on todays btc price at coinbase.  i paid in 717 usd in june

Me too, we must have the same contract, 5Gh indefinate.  I paid $1021 in April.  What's up with that?

One is an indefinite and the other is a 1 year contract :-)

confirms are in on todays payment. of .211  what was the percent on this one?

~40 as hashing power came on towards the second week of earnings. We have more gear coming online next week.

Thanks

if i get a platinum contract for 1000$ at 20GH

i should get back 3,4 btc first month, is that going to happen?

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/2e1cb8b86b

LOL!  No!

why? calc is  correct, whats wrong? payments are not based  o the real hasrate contracted?

Currently, if you mined on your own with 20Gh, you'd be lucky to get ~3.4 BTC per month.  And that's at current difficulty with a 3% pool fee.  Assuming a 30% fee from CH, as stated here (https://cloudhashing.com/about-us/revenue-reinvestment), and a 10% management fee, you would receive ~2.04 BTC/mth, at current dif.

Difficulty is going up in a couple days and CH takes more than 3% of your mined btc's.  That and they are not at 100% capacity yet.  No one knows when that will occur, we're all at the mercy of the Asic manufacturers.  The next estimated difficulty is ~106 mil.  That's ~2.85 btc per month mining on your own.  With the CH 40% fees tacked on, that's ~1.71 BTC per month.

Again, these figures are estimates and are dependent upon CH at 100% capacity.  I'm only estimating the first month of hashing.  If you bought a 20Gh, 2 year contract now, you won't see a payment until late nov/dec, imho.  I think their promises are very overestimated.  Unless BTC price jumps, you won't make that much.  I definitely think you'll money if you're disciplined about saving your BTC.  It's a better bet than sticking your money in a money market account or CD, that's for damn sure.  Again, imho.  Or you could just buy some gold/silver, you're good there too.  OR just buy the BTC right out.  This is purely speculation and very risky.  That $1000 must be money you're willing to lose, not depend upon.

To fully answer your first question, NO, you will not get 3-4 BTC in the first month.  You'll be lucky to get 1.

If you look through this thread, you will learn what you need to know about Cloudhashing.

If you can't find what you need, PM me and I will help you out.

My $.02.

:)

then the estimated earn specified in the web is just ridiculous, no sense a claim of 25 to 50btc when even 7 btc is not reliable.

I got paid 0.296725 BTC for a July 5Gh indefinite contract.   WOOT! 

Thanks!!

Lost Dutchman.


i read through your bflfraud.com skype sessions with benny.

if any of that is really true - i don't see the problem.

so, business was done out the backdoor. money talks. it talked to you. didn't it?

you were part of the so-called "scam" that you accuse him of - along with BFL.

you didn't even allow the guy to arrange a deal with you. you just blasted him off.

i'm not trying to legitimize the guy. i have no idea who he is. and, neither did you.

it just seems like you exposed the deal when you didn't benefit from it. even after he offered to cut you in on some contracts.


kinda weird, bro.

I've got a Bronze & Gold Account, but havent received a Bit-Penny,all i got was cheap talk, some newsletters... oh yeah they don't refund after 7 days LMFAO...

IMO this site is a big scam...

Seriously looking to take legal actions to these guys

Well, I was emailed earlier telling me about my glorious sub 0.0001 XBT LABCOIN dividend.

They probably are legit but the flood of power on the market likely ruined them.

[edit] said probably twice in one sentence so my eyes almost exploded.

Bought a platinum in august, at 900USD, now its 630, no news of reimbursement, no news on when I will see any payments. Just "very very soon" in the latest email I got from them after asking for a refund.

If they dont start to deliver/refund I might be joining you in that.

I have a contract with these clowns at the moment and I can say unequivocally these guys are most certainly a complete scam. 

If you take out a contract you will have no chance of getting your money back, non what so ever. 

Admittedly, this is a little late, but I hope it will prevent others from falling into this scam if it is read at a later date.

I took out a contract around April 2013 for a contract which was supposed to start in July.  You can probably guess that it didn't start in July - it was more like the beginning of October!! 

I'd tried loads and loads of times between April and July to log into their website in order to update my payment wallet details only to keep getting errors.  It would not let me in however I kept getting emails urging me to update my wallet details.  Support requests came back saying because I was an early adopter there were some bugs with the website which needed ironing out.  Months past and they were still not fixed.

Users were supposed to get increased hashing for a year by way of compensation.  You may be able to guess if we ever saw that.  No, we haven't.

I took out a 5gh/s indefinite contract which they claim would have provided 30btc per year.  More accurately it was a 1gh/s contract promising 6btc per year which I upgraded to 5gh/s which was supposed to provide 30btc year.  I am getting absolutely nowhere near this, nowhere at all. 
To put this in perspective, go to an online calculator, type in hash rate on their website along with the cost.  You'll see that unless you get one of the high end contracts you'll take about 10 months of the year to break even.  By this time, the difficulty will have increased such that what you might have made will be non existent.

This isn't all.  I've had nothing but trouble, lies, inconsistent payments etc etc right from day one.  Please be warned. 

I pay for a silver contract, which is 4ghs for a year, called september contract. They said start mining on 26th of september. I paid the 9th, payment didn't show up on their site until 13th. Nobody answer my question about this issue of payment, finally was accepted.
It was priced as 280 USD, but they billed me 209 GBP, with exchange on 13th of september 209 GBP = 332 USD so that is false advertising.

After delayed the mining until 30th then in october they delay again 2 weeks. So we got mining at 100% on 15th of september, but until yesterday we couldn't know what we had mined or the hashrate of the farm. They were coding pool and rewriting stramtum (as they said). I got answered by customer support but lots didn't got any answer.

So my september contract that started on october but october contracts are cheaper. They refuse to refund, well didn't refuse just don't answer. I asked about the difference on price and billed (they were using an exchange from july and i paid on september!!!) the answer I got is bitcoin is risky business.

Apart from that the price was high, they didn't deliver on time, they don't male responsible of their faulty service. Their compensation to all that problems is no charge that 10% of management before 23rd of october and an extra month of service. (they started one months later so that is respect to the contract.

we are trying to get together all unpleased customers to ask a refund, so if you want to join keep an eye to this thread and this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.1080

Now they made the pool and it works very bad, still no answers from customer service. I just want my 209 GBP back.

Cloudhashing ook My paperrout money and never started mening toe me in septerber. I have a gold contract.
I have asked manytimes doe a refund. Never got any.
I do net know how tot tell My parens i tot scammed..
    
 


  
      

Didn't read this stuff first... I purchased a platinum contract on Saturday. They provided a different login and password to there 'pool' site. It doesnt work. I sent email on Saturday, sent support ticket on Monday, sent another email today. NO answer from any of these yet.

I guess this is there definition of "Priority technical support" which you get with a platinum contract.
not to mention their "Our Promise: Response Within 24 Hours!" qoute on there contact page.

If you only bought on Sunday you can cancel within 7 days with NO need to even prove they didn't deliver. You can simply change your mind under the Distance Selling Regulations 2000 which is UK law (CloudScamming are a UK registered company.)

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations/

good point, with my luck, they'll wait 8 days to answer.

I don't think that would be luck, a deliberate ploy more like. If you paid by credit card I think you should be able to get them to reverse the charge.

Save any webpage from their site that could be relevant in court. Like their TOS, the offer the you paid, the date that you paid and of course your email asking for a refund within the 7 days. So it doesn't matter if the don't answer you. By law they have to answer and make the refund.

If not you can take them to the small claims court in UK, you can make that on line if you are not in the UK.
here ( http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/Action/ ) you have assistant about your right as a consumer in the UK, that applies to you also if you are not in the UK as they are based in the UK.
BTW if you are taking them to court, you have to give them a notice about it and give a time to answer. I'm waiting their answer right now.

It's a shame you buy that contract, like I did you trusted but it's fucking frustrating this people that wants to take advantage of the rest of us. Good luck with your refund.

I have a July indefinite contract, which I bought in April, and have not seen my 25% increase in hashing power they promised.  They don't answer my emails.  The website UI stinks.  They post a video about transparency but remain clouded.

Edit:  My 25% bonus hashrate has magically been updated

I sent a second, in system trouble ticket two days ago, STILL no response. Today I requested a refund through Google Wallet, to them, so there's no denying that it was requested 5 days after the sale.

they are not going to answer, yesterday the pool was mining at a 30%, but as they say nobody has been affected.

Still no replies to any of my emails, including the refund request sent through google wallet. They have changed their site so that a link does take me into the pool site. So, apparently I have earned a whole $0.00 for a weeks worth of paid 20gh.

I dont really care, their service doesn't even exist...just give me the refund.

Never received my payment...

155   bitcoin_payment   Oct. 25, 2013, 4:53 a.m.   -0.21830875   0.00000000   None

Never got a reply to my emails...

Don't know what everyone's complaining about. It works fine.

You need to update the wallet address on pool.cloudhashing.com, which is a separate login from the main website.

I've had just over 2 BTC paid out so far for my 3 platinum contracts.

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/6569/up1t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/547/up1t.jpg/)

I have 0.4 btc earning on 12.25gh, so that's about right.  Seems 0.025 short compared to Perseus though.  They had me at 11gh for a bit till I complained that I wasn't getting a 20% increase on my 5gh July contract.  So maybe they didn't give me any lost/past earnings. 

But I wish they had a better UI.  My iPhone can't navigate it.  They need a phone friendly UI or an app.

Yes, it's true that the UI isn't good for phone -- I understood that that's one of the things they're working on.

Don't know about shares / payments -- I have a september contract. Sometimes the system updates a day of hashing at the end of the day and credits then.

So, your saying that if I login to the pool.cloudhashing.com (which was my inital problem, I COULDN'T login to the pool site for first 4 days) and add my wallet address (some where like the "Profile Settings" tab in the top right after login??) did that 2 days ago; I will get paid?
Hasn't happened. Three support emails AND a refund request via Google wallet later, NO RESPONSE from anyone!!(as if there's a whole support team there to help anyway)
So, after 11 days.... I have nothing to show for my platinum contract except an account balance that's $495 lighter.
At least your's works though so all is well right?

Yes, all's well with me and all's well with the site. If it's not working for you, it's not evidence of a conspiracy against you, just that you don't understand how the website works.

I grant that the website is not perfect -- with the two separate logins for the main site and the pool -- but it does work.
Please take the following steps:

* Log into the main website, there you find a page with the status of your contracts.

* On that page, you will find a login and NEW PASSWORD for the separate login for pool.cloudhashing.com

* Login to pool.cloudhashing.com -- change the wallet address there, and password etc.


I know all this is difficult, but you can do it... go on. I believe in you.

Autopayment Threshold is way below i have earn, but no payment at all.
Never got any paiyment. Why cloudhashing?

Too bad I don't believe in your reading comprehension skills. I did update my fucking wallet address on the pool.cloudhashing.com website!!
Before we continue, how many more times must I say this? Just curious... Do I need to go preschool on you and give screenshots?

Hello everyone I've been paid by Cloudhashing also.  The member here named Cloudhasher on these bitcointalk forums might be a good person to send a PM for some info.  Its possible that because their butterfly equipment arrived behind schedule the payouts continue to be behind schedule.  

I'm diversifying however Lol and just bought some Butterfly cloud mining contracts.  I love the 30GH and Jalapeno its just too bad my 30GH sounds like a jet engine.  Currently I'm waiting for some acoustical foam.  For any of you waiting for your butterfly equip consider setting up a box with acoustical foam and the proper air flow

http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/e/4/9/0/highres_304018512.jpeg

I've been paid too. It seems more they have solved problems taking too long, that's the reason ppl got enraged.
Poor communication, lot of trolls, (very) below average service. After so many gossip (rumors) in bitcoin industry (BFL, Avalon and sons) it's like they (CH) plunged in bad waters.
But, hey, it's a choice.
(Well, the truth is that my CH ROI is being fulfilled   ::)
But still have to transfer them to my wallet...)

so true, even with a Jalap my sleep is screwed that little. I dream of solved blocks

Well, I got paid. Apparently, Cloudhashing is running the most unlucky pool in the world. I've been paid .01btc for 12days of 20GH. Still NO response from any of my support tickets or my cancel order request through google wallet. Hmm, I wonder if there's even anyone there at all to answer support questions??

Has anyone already researched and found actual names/locations of people to bring legal action against? I'm in europe now, not a big deal to hop on a train or drive north for a while if it means getting even with someone who fucked me over.

There is some info earlier in this thread about how to bring legal action, then you could meet them in court. Also I think someone looked them up at Companies House and published real names of the directors. I haven't got time to look back for it now.

Edit. I meant this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.0

[/quote]

There is some info earlier in this thread about how to bring legal action, then you could meet them in court. Also I think someone looked them up at Companies House and published real names of the directors. I haven't got time to look back for it now.

Edit. I meant this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.0

[/quote]

That's great, thank you!

I ordered yesterday and after i few hours I already requested a refund through google wallet.  I also went to my bank today and they said they will file a dispute as soon as the payment clears

wish I would have just bought bitcoin, but they promised they could get me more bitcoin and I fell for it thinking I could get rich.

Its not necessarily a "get rich quick" scheme schizo.  People are putting up the risk in order to have their investments work for them through Cloudhashing.com's beefed up butterfly equip (plus they deal with monitoring the equipment etc).  It was such a beautiful dream because they started before ButterflyLabs came out with the EasyMiner interface. People were having issues with Guiminer's interface (like constantly having to stop the mining and then re-start because of a snag.) 

I'd say now we're in a true Hay Day and Gold Rush of the Bitcoin era.  The brilliant millionaire Max Keiser calls Bitcoin the cyber-Christ because its putting the power back in the hands of the people and we'll crush the corrupt federal reserve at this rate.

I bought into this mining thing a year ago back when bitcoin was at $40.  I bought a 5970 card for $250, which was and still is a very fair price.  but when bitcoin jumped to $122 everything changed. now all of the sudden my card was worth $500.  I could of sold it for a $250 profit.  instead I ended up mining hard with it for two months.  I think I made $180 worth of bitcoin with it at the time.  It was a fun little hobby but I couldnt justify all those watts, when the difficulty increased so I shut it down.  I learned all about clients and mining and silk road and deflation.  buying bitcoins will always be more profitable than mining coins.  but back then there was no premium to pay on this mining stuff.  had I just bought the coins instead of building a mining rig I would of been alot better off.  but it was a fun hobby and a good way to learn about this stuff.

btw I had guiminer running for weeks at a time, I never had any problems with it.  I rigged my computer to never shut down or power off or update.  and it ran and ran.

Those are good points and, until hyperinflation in the U.S. gets too out of control, purchasing bitcoins directly may still be the least hassle and best bang-for-the-buck.  This new ASIC hardware coming out (not sure about the 5970) may be less power hungry and seems to be efficient at generating coins.  Its certainly not a way to generate wealth overnight; but over the long-haul it will be nice to look at the numbers and see that I quadrupled my investment and this little 30 GH is still pumping out coins for me.

By the way before we de-rail this thread the Cloudhashing team is looking for customer service people.  People with experience should apply.  You may get a response more quickly by sending an inquiry to "Cloudhasher" here on this message board as opposed to the already overwhelmed contact form on their website.  Sorry Cloudhasher if you get a deluge of PMs we're just not getting any response from the team's website so you're the man right now.

Cloudhasher answered one of my questions but the vast majority of them he hasn't answered. He said customer service will answer questions but they continue not to respond. My payments are down to less than .04 bitcoins per month in the lifetime contract and I have no idea why, it is very confusing the hashrates promised and delivered related to payment and he won't explain it himself nor at all clearly on the company's website.

Suggestion if it makes sense to him: Hire a writer who understands bitcoins and bitcoin miners to simply explain on the cloudhasing website how the hashrates (and what they mean) relate to payments. I realize that is difficult but laypersons and customers like myself are very confused.

He says there will be customer service and there isn't. He says there will be daily payments and there aren't. Payments go down almost to zero but it is not clear exactly why. It's like you don't trust your customers because you refuse to share real information with them.

The payments are so small for a number of reasons. The 2 most important reasons are:

They lied about the expected returns on their website (now removed).

They delivered late and network difficulty increased. The vast majority of the return would have been at the beginning of the contract, when they weren't mining or were mining at very % hash rate.

Thank you very much. What do you expect from Cloudhashing in terms of returns going forward, and do you feel any of the other services (mining contract companies) are in a stronger position?

I expect Cloudhashing to declare bankruptcy quite soon. Most customers on this forum are getting refunds through Google Wallet and PayPal. They didn't provide the contract they sold, so under UK consumer protection laws they have no choice other than to refund, however hard they try not too.

cex.io is the only player in the market that can actually deliver at the moment. However it's a free market and too many people are chasing the concept of "free money" so the market price is above the return that could ever be made.

cex.io loss calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnoTFX7YTCl0dFFFektlRmJ0T0pwRGlvN3pyVHhPVFE&usp=sharing#gid=0)

Lied? Why would we lie? We would make a lot less money and would not have the number of return customers if thats our ploy.

Look admittedly the difficultly estimate we had were lower than the actual. A lot of people missed this estimate including hardware manufacturers.  We cannot overlook that BTC price is almost 4 times greater than when we estimated 100.

Also late delivery of equipment affected almost every bitcoin miner with some sill to receive hardware. Bottom line is that we are closer than ever to our 110 terahash target.

If you have a cloudhashing account and have an issue, pm me and I will take care of it.

Cheers

So that's the way you solve the problems emmanuel? We have to deal with you not customer support. Is this seriously for you? I think this is just a game for you.

Why don't you speak with James the guy who answered my email and never answer again.
I gave a chance, I wrote the email with my concerns, part of the answer was just an insult and misrepectful.
Your compensation didn't satisfy my expectations. Actually is a joke.
So I think I have the right of a refund, I asked nice and didn't get an answer.
So the nice way is over.

So yes I got an issue with CH. I'm still waiting for a lot of answers, but I don't what are them, I just want to get far away from you. But if BTW you want to drop some of your "TRANSPARENCY" in here and help new customers to trust you. Can you explain how your reinvestment plan works? something concrete, like we'll give you XX GH/s for aech BTC you put in your RRP... and we will give it to you weekly... for example... I'm still waiting a simple answer like that....
so please... start talking or shut the **** up

The company's newsletters and radio shows explain their intentions well. The three "reparations" of extended contracts, some waived administration fees, and the current discount of half-off contracts is fair.  I don't believe they will need to declare bankruptcy.  The power behind having over 1000 clients' payments to work with along with the mining "beast" they have created means they will stay competitive in the industry and people will get paid.  

Have some patience these investments are not "get rich quick" schemes.  When buying a contract that says "2-years" one should make a mental note that its a 2-year contract and not a "win big in a couple of months!" contract.  You might as well go hit the slot machines if that's your mentality.

I don't know how long you've been around bitcoin mining. But there is something clear, the biggest part of your ROI you'll make it at the beginning, because of the difficult is the lowest you'll expect. Don't expect get more the second year than the first one.
So if something is true, for the price that we've paid for that service we'll never get the same amount of bitcoins than buying it directly. So if you still think this is profitable.... make the maths again. seriuosly...

I don't think they'll bankruptcy, just hope they learn to do things better. A lower their prices as it is a theft t those prices. So again at those prices yes they are stealing to people and always will be someone that makes the wrong investment as I did.
And CH will make a huge mone i'm sure of it, but not their customers...

PM sent...

Interesting profile there Arock. Registered 28th March, 3 days before Clownhashing registered. First post 6th November, 8 posts in 3 days, all shilling for CH.

Let me explain the truth behind reparations:

Extended contracts:
A September contract that started 1 month late is extended by 1 month.
Therefor the customer paid for a September contract and got an October contract. Because difficulty increased more 100% in that time the Oct contract is worth around half of the Sept. contract. That is mugging, not reparation.

Waived management fee:
They didn’t take their 10% of what you didn't earn while they weren’t mining. 
Come on now they really are taking the piss.

50% off new contracts:
That are priced well above double the market rate at cex.io

That sure ain’t a “get rich quick scheme” like the one they advertised with “expected 100% profit”. No it’s a get mugged scheme.

I'm just taking a stance for a company that I feel is doing its best after difficulty with getting equipment.  Maybe you're "shilling" for cex.io with the trolling you're doing against cloudhashing.  Anyway like they said in the radio show "let's talk bitcoin" many other competitors received their equipment late.  So its similar to some competing farmers not receiving their farming equipment so they are similarly disadvantaged for the harvest. 

What bothers me is the collective hysteria, distrust, and whining that made me defend the company.  Its actually amusing when people rate others by the amount of posts they have made.  By that logic a 12 year old who posts bullshit all day here is more worthy of your attention than a brilliant, seasoned businessman with years of triumph just now finding this obscure corner of the web.

I was rating you by the fact that every post you have made is a PR statement that could be direct from the company. If you check my posts you will see I have pointed out to others that cex.io contracts will lose money. Even though they are priced far below Clownhashing's Also they waited until they had a product to sell rather than taking risky pre-orders and then passing that risk on to their customers and bullshitting about reaparation that anyone with a spread sheet can see does't add up to the losses.

What bothers me is that Clownhashing treats it's customers like it thinks they are idiots it can get one over on.

Arock did you heard of cognitive mining? if you don't you it's ran by a 12 or 16 years old boy and is doing much better than CH. He doesn't have the same money, nor hashrate or equipments. You know what he does good? customer support, planification and transparency...
The Ceo of CH is a retarded playing to manage business with a bunch of monkeys that just want money.
It is as plain and simple as this, if you cannot deliver proper service to your customers, you STOP taking more customers, until you know for sure you can do it... and for deliver a don't mean on time... I mean a good service...
CH is just improvising the next step...

That's great about the 12 year old doing so well.  Also I see the other side of my argument that having a trust network of people who have been here a while proving themselves is very intelligent.  I came on here just as my CH contracts were providing returns and my butterfly equipment has been also making money.  So as I look to diversify it seems only precious metals and direct cash-to-bitcoin purchasing are the soundest investments (as far as less-than-volatile investments are concerned.)  They have both served as a form of "wealth insurance" (as the currency in America has gone down the precious metals have remained stable..and the same with Bitcoin so far).  

Although I have to re-iterate that the "beast" of a mining rig CH has created - maintained in a data center with "bulk" or "wholesale" electricity pricing - may ultimately smash competitors like "cognitive mining" and the buy-and-wait butterfly cloudhashing contracts.  I see this as a marathon and not a sprint so I think, over time, my ASIC 30 GH will eventually make a profit.  However maybe the cloud mining scene has already made it obsolete.  I'm open to suggestions.  I still don't think the gentlemen at CH have intentionally screwed over their customers.

If cex.io has sold products that are imminently "antiquated" or "obsolete" what would you suggest in the cloud mining industry?

I have no idea of their original intention, but they way they are "compensating" them now certainly is screwing them over.
Relying on the rising price of bitcoin to cover their tracks. Not one Clownhashing customer will make back the BTC they could have bought at the time of placing their order. They even have the nerve to screw them again with a 10% fee.

They didn't deliver the contracts they sold and ignore UK law by refusing refunds, that is scamming. They are scamming now whatever they set out to do.

PM sent to CH 2 days ago.  Waiting for reply. 

I don't know what their intentions where.  I honestly feel as it was in good faith because it was a good idea and with a good idea, you can make a lot more money going legit then scamming a few people.  I read how CH went out of their way to get their hands on a mini-rig out of queue and I actually applaud the conviction.  But the service appears to be run either by 1 overworked guy or terribly mis-managed. 

Their customer service is horrible and is because they are probably getting bombarded with questions.  But they caused their own support clusterfuxk by terrible management.  They screwed early investors with delays and with difficulty at exponential growth, those 2 months delays were worth more then all the other months combined.  I have missing payments, and still so many questions about how things are run.  I've reached a point where I've chalked up my loss as a poor investment and now it's time to warn others.

I've seen the site evolve since june and it's going at a snail's pace.  I am a professional web developer and I could build a waaaaaay better site including pool.cloudhashing in 1 month.  I have seen little to no improvement in transparency since I purchased back in june.  I'm very disappointed at the rate of improvement and feel they are not doing enough to catch up. 

An extensive FAQ section on their site or even weekly newsletters would be much easier, and reach a large audience, than attempting to respond to each person's inquiry.  So the bitcoin community learns from these mistakes.  I'm interested in what's going to happen with the evolution of cloud mining and mining pools in general.  For instance what's going to happen as several large mining pools join up to create huge pools with corporate style business models and cheaper electricity.  

Corporations tend to divorce themselves from human contact and easily begin to see clients as units or commodities (profit being more important than anything else so they often screw people over) and then comes the situation when they grow so much they can subdue any legal issues against their corrupt activities.  I'm still new to studying the nature of bitcoin so hopefully Saotoshi built something in the system to prevent a monopoly.  In essence when huge corporations get into bitcoin it will be attempting to "centralize" the currency.

At this point I'm just approaching bitcoin like precious metals.  Converting my cash directly into bitcoin and becoming a "buy and hold forever" style investor.  I'm recently converted because the math of mining rigs and cloudmining just isn't adding up to good profits compared to just buying some fucking coins.  Plus it just makes life easier and less complicated.  Long live de-centralized currency!  


http://bitcoinmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bitcoin_peer_to_peer_network3.jpg

ROTFLMAO

YOU SOLD CONTRACTS YOU DIDN'T HONOUR AND YOU IGNORE PEOPLE THAT WROTE TO YOU ASKING FOR A REFUND.

My valid questions are not BS you troll on a nerd rage with your perma-caps.  Get a grip and take it like a man if you lost money.

Read the title of the thread. The rest of your BS was off topic, hence I didn't need to quote it.

The thread is literally a yes or no question I forgot about the thread nazis.  I'll be sure to stick exactly to the thread title when you're around wielding caps lock.

I needed to shout because you ignored what I said. Cloudhashing is scamming by not issuing refunds that people have asked for them and are legally entitled to.

Do you have anything to say about that or not?

Yes I believe they are simply behind schedule and bogged down with the responsibilities of getting the business rolling for the other customers who don't want a refund.  I wouldn't say ButterflyLabs was scamming even though Paypal had to force a large refund recently.  So we can agree to disagree that what you call scamming with cloudhashing I call putting the refunds on the "back burner" with low priority.

I call it ignoring your legal responsibilities and yes that is scamming.

Yes they are a scam because they RAPE you with absolute bullshit fees.  Out of $271 I have earned so far in BTC they have charged me more than $200 in "management fees".  Which, by the way, are not mentioned anywhere when you sign up.

This is the first and only of such report. Are you saying that you have mined $271 to date and only received $70 if your wallet? If so please send me a screen shot of your ledger entry page.

Thanks

Waiting to hear back from Patrick who you referred me to (realize it has only been a few hours) regarding daily payments. Thanks for your time today. Alex

Are you joking?  YOU have access to my ledger page as well.  Why should I do the work for you?  It's basic math.  Add up the BTC mined.  Subtract your "management fees".  Result:  RAPE = EXCESSIVE MANAGEMENT FEES ON EVERY TRANSACTION.

I would remind you that by its own admission, Cloudhashing funded Terrahash.

Wondering if CH got refunds, mmmmmm?

And the plot thickens.

My $.02.

;)

Fixed ;)

Well, there is that also!

;)

well I got my refund... was google's refund but got it... LoL

hey
cloud mining already started ?

It depends on when the contract was purchased to give a correct answer whether or not cloud mining has begun for certain clients.  I'm not sure if cloudhashing.com has their "same day" mining service up and running.  But yes if you're asking whether or not cloudhashing.com has received their equipment and has begun cloud mining the answer is yes.

started what? cheating customers? hell yeah!!

My understanding is that they are paying, but they started paying long after their contracts with customers said they should.

I'd be surprised if *anyone* got refunds out of the Terrahash mess

What happened to Support, it is always sleeping?

WTF are you talking about?
Of course these are get-rich-quick shemes. There is no other purpose for them.
If you don't understand what difficulty and available hashrate do to your ROI then you should look for another game to play.
It is a game of diminishing ROI.
The situation is (and has been for years) that you will have to make the bulk of your ROI in the first few months.
If you didn't make most of it in a few months then no amount of years will help you get more than you already got.
If you don't "win big in a couple of months!" you will probably lose. Waiting 2 years to understand this is just noob.
If you beliefe that mining hardware can hold value for 2 years then you are seriously seriously deluded. Any hashrate you may think is worth something now will be obsolete within half a year, max.
So, in other words, there is no such thing as a long-term investment in bitcoin mining hardware unless you happen to sell it.

And did you realize that by exposing so much haspower they proportionally decrease the ROI of all their customers as well?
Any hashpower they add competes directly with all other miners and that includes their customers.
'Smashing competitors' means effectively the same thing as 'smashing customers'.

What will happen is they will buy more hardware and thus make the ROI of existing customers less.

Study more and harder.

Thanks cloudhashing support for answer!20GH-4days-0.04BTC.

Try a bitcoin calculator like this one http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

20Ghs should be making 0.01422 a day so 0.05688 in 4 days.

It is a somewhat more reliable source of information than Clownhashing support.

Hey! You're back! I'm your biggest fan. Let me wear your hide as a poncho!


Oh, wait. That sounded creepier than intended.


Seriously though, you made a number of pretty good posts earlier this year, so you're on my "read once in a while what they post" list on btctalk. So that's why I saw your new post.

...

Now, can I wear your hide as a poncho?

Avoid Cloud Hashing like the plague !!!
Cloudhashing is big FRAUD !!!!

In Dec of 2013 I purchased the Silver Mining Contract (10 GH/s) for 1.73 BTC, based on comments in this forum and elsewhere that the Cloudhashing silver contact would yield about 5 BTC/yr.   It was immediately clear that it wasn't hashing at the claimed 5 BTC/yr rate, so I immediately requested a refund, as offered in their offer for sale. Zac at Cloudhashing said they would issue the refund. After several weeks of excuses, they issued a partial refund of 1.25 BTC. They claimed the refund was in the dollar equivalent. This was after they delayed for several weeks and the BTC / USD rated changed significantly. They fleeced me for 0.46 BTC. Can you imagine if you purchased foreign on a FOREX exchange at the market, and the trader did the trade, then wouldn't credit your account for several weeks waits for the exchange rate to change, then pockets the difference? That's effectively what CloudHashing does.....

I pinged a message to the CEO, Emmnauel Abiodun, with documents about the problem and lack of full refund, and the problems I was having with the customer support, or lack thereof.  Emmnauel was totally flippant in his reply, effectively telling me off, that if I had a concern that I should talk to customer support.

 (You should ask your self why there is no phone number on the website, and they won't tell you the full name of the staff that work there). *** Look on the BitCoinTalk.org forum, many people who have been ripped off by CloudHashing are just now coming forward. *** - some comments on user CloudHasher - are showing the fraud there.

If you've been scammed by CloudHashing, please come forward about your situation on these Forums. 
Otherwise, their scam will go on, and they will make the BitCoin and Altcoin community look very bad to new users and new investors.
I can't think of a worse ambassador to the Bitcoin community than Cloudhashing (well, now that Silk Road is shut down).

People are just now learning about and coming forward about this Bernie Madoff level scam from CloudHashing.

I've contacted some of their advertisers.
A big reason I went with Cloudhashing was their ads on Info Wars with Alex Jones via the GCN.
Alex Jones says he personally uses the products he advertises.   That likely true with many of his product in the Infowarsstore, I doubt it's the case with

If this goes on, people also need to contact
centraltx.BBB.org
SEC.gov (Securities Fraud)
FTC.gov (False Advertising, Fraud, Refusal to give the requested refund they claim to offer)
FCC.com (False Ads, bait and switch)

Also call their ad network and discuss how you got burned by CloudHashing.
When I talked with Jason Worsley, ad rep, at GNC (Genesis Communication Network)
http://www.gcnlive.com/CMS/index.php
 877-996-4327  x118
Jason told me it was the first he'd heard the Cloudhashing is a scam.
So if you've been fleeced by Cloudhashing, it's important you call the leadership at GCN and Infowars to let them know of this fraud.
You may need to talk with Ted Anderson, the founder at CGN to get resolution.

at Infowars.com
the contact number is
888-253-3139
ask for the office support team for the radio show

Good luck on getting any positive ROI, let alone a lucrative return. 
Ditto in trying to get your refund they claim to offer in 7 days, when you find the hash rates aren't anywhere they need to be for the deal to pencil economically.

(If you're new to BitCoin/Altcoin, my best results so far have been:
LocalBitCoins.com  (just pay cash and meet in person at a local coffee shop with wifi to deal the deal to buy or sell some BTC)
run a mining program on your computer(s) and mine at home for DogeCoin, LiteCoin, or other Scrypt based coins, they can be traded to BTC on the exchanges if need be).

No they're not.  They're paying out.

You can't immediately tell what your actual rate of return is.  It takes at least a week, because the rate at which the pool finds blocks varies.  Their time between blocks, theoretically, is around 12 hours right now, but I've often seen 3 or 4 in one day, followed by none the next day.

Nobody knows what the rate of return will be after a year, but they're paying me approximately what they should, based on my hash rate, their hash rate, and the total network hash rate.

Cloudhashing is a fraud for many reasons.
If you read and understood my ENTIRE post, which you didn't, you would see for example 1. their offer for sale claims a refund is available in the first 7 days.  But then they won't give you the full refund or in a timely manner, in fact they shortchange people by a amount.   That is Fraud, a lie, a deceit.  It's also embezzlement to hold back and pocket client account money like that.

Most likely you (MSC) are just a shill that works for Cloudhashing and their PR team posting more lies on their behalf.
If you closely look at the forum, you'll see there are quite a few people now coming forward about the Cloudhashing SCAM.

I think it's likely Cloudhashing will be like Terrahash, Part2.   Look up what happened to Terrahash.   Their leaderships behavior and lack of ethics sounds similar to Cloudhashing, and similar problems with dishonesty across the board.   It would be unfortunate, but not a surprise, if Cloudhashing ends up like Terrahash did.

Actually, my situation with CH was that I was one of the first to sign up and had a shitload of issues with their customer service. After a few hundred emails and posts here, they actually called me and got shit resolved. They explained that being a new start-up they were overwhelmed with orders and service requests. They hired some new people and were on a new path. I actually spoke to Zak, Lucas, Michael and possible one more so they are real people and definitely not scammers in my opinion.

That being said, they went from bad to good. Hopefully they will maintain their current customer service levels which  I think are pretty decent.

Granted, they seem to be oversubscribed now, while they wait for new hardware.  They shouldn't be selling January contracts anymore. 

Well I have got paid out .37 BTC in about 5 weeks. I am sure that will change once difficulty rises.

Are you going to reinvest to cope with the rising difficulty, you think?

Actually, I am taking the btc and investing elsewhere. I had a good ebay gig going but paypal put the damper on that REAL quick. They hate btc and will go out of their way to screw you.

Know exactly what you're talking about. It seems they will allow it somewhere in February though: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/01/17/breaking-news-ebay-will-allow-bitcoin-trading/

Actually, ebay allows it now, but regardless of what they allow, Paypal will shut down your account if you have ANY issues. I was recently scammed by some little commie bastard who bought some currency. He said he never got it and submitted a claim and paypal took the funds back. Fortunately for me, I have been with paypal and ebay since they started and after review my record paypal said that even though they don't cover ecurrencies that they would cover my loss AS-LONG-AS I signed an affidavit stating that I would not use paypal for trading coin/hashing/contracts or anything that has to do with ecurrency.

Now ebay on the other hand could give a flip. The only problem is that when you list you need to have some form of electronic payment to be accepted or your listing won't go through. It is really an f'd up situation as ebay and paypal are almost one in the same.

Aw, all right.
It's made from ponys, you know.

So, how much of your investment did they pay out to you and how much is still on their accounts?

Invested 19.2 BTC, repaid 3.29, and 1.94 in RRP.  I'm at 100% RRP until they add hardware, because it'll give me a significant increase in power.

I'm not saying they're perfect, or even good.  I trust them to pay out the block rewards that they receive, but that's about it.

12/04/13   -0.8992
12/05/13   -3.7269
12/06/13   -3.9789
12/08/13   0.1118
12/10/13   -4.8468
12/10/13   -0.9758
12/12/13   0.26
12/15/13   0.26
12/16/13   0.2672
12/18/13   0.2529
12/24/13   0.2648
12/27/13   0.2657
01/02/14   0.2642
01/04/14   -4.7745
01/05/14   0.2636
01/11/14   0.5590
01/17/14   0.2534
01/26/14   0.27

Looks like a ~15-16BTC loss per year. Congrats.  ;D

Nah, I'll get another 2 BTC back easily.

Cloudhashing has been a huge disappointment on several fronts:

1) Clear violation to contract in fulfilling promised GHs increases.
2) Failure to deliver on scheduled RRP (reinvestment of BTC into new GHs) dates repeatedly
3) It seems they are just as susceptible to the same hardware backlogs as any other user despite their claims of priority with the OEMs
4) Ridiculously poor block returns, which they repeatedly claim is normal, but from best I can tell relates to their small total THs
5) If it's not that, it's outright theft or incompetence (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt)
6) Contacting customer service gets one nowhere - they just blame their suppliers, and make no attempt to compensate for my missing profits
7) Overall it's been a waste of BTC so far

They have lost all trust and reputation in my mind, but I get it, they're just trying to make a business in a virginal industry... if I didn't understand the risks I would be making a much bigger stink. But either way I would stay away from them - I could have bought BTC and been much farther ahead by now. They have failed to deliver and don't seem to care.

My contract has been pushed back another five days without any notice. :(

In three weeks you received 0.054 BTC? Are you putting something in reinvestment or is it really that low? That would mean you would maybe get like half a BTC after a year.

skipping math in school is costly later in life

I'm taking the increased difficulty int account :)

They have been paying me out .03 every 4-6 days.
So far I have been paid out .5 BTC on a January contract, so they do pay.

My contract I got at the beginning of january started on February 10. I have 0.0087 BTC now ,reinvesting 30%, so actually a little over 0.01. What amount of Ghs doe you have and did you start on January 1st?

I have a 100gh/s contract that started on Feb. 10. So far, after a 30% reinvestment fee and a 10% management fee, I have earned 0.0616 BTC. The total earnings if you do not subtract the fees are .1 BTC.
Thoughts?

That's about right.  You should be making 0.36 per month so far, but the difficulty is due for an increase shortly.

I have a 20Gh/s contract and earned 0.014 BTC with the 30% reinvestment and 10 %management fee.

I would just keep the BTC and not reinvest. The way things are going in the BTC market, take what you can whenever you can.

You're probably right, but out of curiosity, I'm gonna check it out. I'm just over two weeks in (since 10/2) and these are the results:

Results after two weeks

Total Earnings: 0.0514 BTC
Management Fee: 0.005
Reinvestment: 0.015 (0.011 left)
BTC left: 0.0314

Part of the reinvestment already appeared as a new worker with the following specs:
592.97 Mh/s   02/24/2014   02/24/2015

I'll show you the results in two weeks time. :)

One thing I don't like is that the communication is quite scarce. I had no idea, they added the extra worker.

I just noticed there are new contracts available. I'm tempted by the new Gold contract which works out to about $10.80 per Gh/s. Will someone talk me out of this?

Don't do it or I will boil your puppy!

;)

That's fairly convincing. But is there a mathematical reason why this is a terrible idea? Or is it just a reasonably risky idea?
I do like my puppy.

If you like it, just don't do it.
Look at the news, it's not wise to send your bitcoins to third parties, and even less when they smell like ponzi.

I will not be sending bitcoins. I will pay with dollars and receive bitcoins. Does it seem like a bad deal? They are paying.

I'm happy with the payout right now, but our only hope is that the difficulty stops rising so fast.  The cost of mining is getting pretty high, so we may not see a whole lot of new miners.  But a lot of existing miners will probably continue investing in hashpower.

I paid in BTC and hope to recover the same amount of BTC.  By investing dollars, you only need a dollar profit, which might be easier if the BTC price rises.  Still, if I had it to do over again, I'd just buy as much BTC as possible and keep it all in storage.

So, therefore, I would not be completely crazy to consider a contract, correct? There are others who are purchasing contracts with sound reasoning, correct? There may be better ways but it seems easier than going through an exchange and purchasing BTC.

It's a gamble.  The only reason to do it would be if you think mining is a profitable business.  And keep in mind that in 2.5 years, the block reward drops from 25 BTC to 12.  If you just want to buy BTC, I recommend using an exchange.

But there must be many other who believe it is an ok gamble, correct? My contract would just be for one year. I already have a small contract but I can now get many more gh/s for the amount that I paid for the first contract. It's sort of a way of "averaging down". It's makes me tempted. I also find the exchanges to be off putting as I don't want to hook up my bank account to it, etc..

Sure, they have plenty of customers, and it is a pretty good price.

Be aware that they may wait 1,5 months before actually starting, largely decreasing the value of your hashing power. I gambled for the 20GH/s Silver contract at the beginning of January and enjoy looking at getting bitcoins in. It is fun to also be involved in mining bitcoins, but it is a risky investment. Don't invest money you cannot miss.

Yes, you would be completely crazy because you WILL lose out.
The way it's currently played by cloudhashing noone will get their investment back, never mind profit from it.
Having hope that difficulty stops rising so fast, like msc does, is a very very bad reason to put your money in cloudhashing.
There is just no way to win when the people at cloudhashing reduce the posibility of profit piece by piece. It's called fleecing.

I don't know how much you know about bitcoins, but they are designed to make mining less and less profitable.
By the time the next block halving comes you will be making almost nothing with any current hashrate anyway. It is an insignificant fact from the now perspective.
It's as much a gamble as throwing your money in a toilet, flushing, and hoping you will get more money from that. Sure, some will still float on the surface, but it won't be what you invested and certainly no new money will appear.

I don't think anyone who actually does some prognosis will see it as an ok gamble. If you make some graphs you quickly learn that there is no way the winnings can compensate for the lossings.

msc did have a good idea, that is to invest 100% back into rrp for the first, i don't know, 1/4 to 1/2 of the contract time to build up momentum. But you need to do this from start and i guess the new 1-year contracts hurt this strategy. And it is still incredibly risky. I won't take you to the moon and the road is filled with landmines. All the fuckups, like not delivering rrp for a month, have a compound effect on the rest of the contract period. It puts you on a different curve that goes to zero much faster.
I calculated that under current difficulty rising you need to reinvest about 70% of your earnings into rrp to have a constant payout. But that does not calculate in te fact that cloudhashing can deliver the rrp much later. In that case the 70% becomes only half as valuable and you lose for sure.

The real problem here is that cloudhashing has manipulation grips on their system. Basically, by delaying rrp and inventing a price/GH/s they can make you earn as little as they want. This whole rrp business is very very opaque and basically you can't know what they are doing and what effect it will have on your earnings. Turns out the effect is only negative. Your earnings only go down from the projection, never up.

Whether you actually send them bitcoins or dollars is irrelevant. The point of mining is to get bitcoins, so you want bitcoins, right? So you can take that money, give it to them, and slowly get bitcoins over the course of a year, or take that money give it to someone else and get an amount of bitcoins right now. Which way will get more bitcoins for you?

If you are worried about the exchanges, don't trust them for very long. Find one that isn't screwing anyone over right this second, get your bitcoins, and get them into your own wallet.

I could use $4000 and get about 6 BTC right now. If I use $4000 to purchase a mining contract at 370gh/s I would earn about about 14 BTC over one year if the difficulty remained the same as today. We know the difficulty will increase greatly, but will it increase greatly enough so that under this contract I would not even earn the 6 BTC that I could buy right now?
 ???

Just remember that in january this year the hashrate doubled, just like that. There is no reason why the hashate would not increase much much more this year unless something dramatic happens. It's an exponential growth curve so whatever we think is a lot today will be almost meaningless in the near future.
Thinking in terms of difficulty staying the same is just wrong on so many levels. You should leave that out of your reasoning completely because it gives you a completely wrong prognosis. Don't use it as a basis because it's absolutely not like the real situation.

With the contract you will likely lose out. Just as a base case, if the difficulty rises only at a rate of 20.00% per month (very slow) and if you do not have rrp then you will make about 7 BTC in a year.
But that is just about the best situation imaginable. It can only get worse and the difficulty will probably rise much faster and you will get much less than 7 BTC...
Just think about it, in 2013 difficulty increased roughly by 100000.00% (!!) . :o .  And you need less than 20% to make more than 7BTC.. It's not worth it because the risk is way too high.

This was a very helpful and well reasoned response. Thank you.

For whatever reason, I still can't shake being tempted to purchase a gold plan right now. I don't want to purchase on the exchange and their price may be fair considering the overhead of electricity and cooling etc...
Even if I lose money, the only way I'd end up disappointed is if BTC does not endure as a primary cryptocurrency. Does anyone have an opinion on the odds of this?
Is there anything right with my thinking? I just like being in.

I had the same curiosity and did it with money I could miss (1 BTC). If you can miss the money, why not?

I switched my silver 20GH/s program to a 100% reinvestment. I just want to see what happens and see the money as lost already. Untill now, it has been enjoyable. I get extra mining power every two weeks and if it is actually profitable, I will benefit from it lateron :)

Maybe check here also before you invest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.msg5632280#msg5632280

You can check the difficulty here on this page: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
mobodicks 20% rise per month is rather conservative. It's actually closer to 20% two to three times per month instead of just once.

Currently the Gold contract will cost around 6BTC and I'm afraid it will mine not even half that amount during the contract period. So far cloudhashing has yet to come up with a decent reply on these concerns about the growing difficulty.

What i was refering to was that you need it to be lower than 20% to make anything back on those contracts if you don't use rrp. Of course the real difficulty goes up much faster and no rrp will be able to compensate so basically nooone will make a return on investment, nevermind profit.

I know, I was just showing what to expect with some real time numbers and sites to check to help do your own math. Wish somebody showed me before I bought a cloudhashing contract, but I was the same as people here, I was more eager to believe all the lies and deceptions cloudhashing shows on their site and to jump in, then to accept solid facts and numbers.

Two possible rescues for me:
1 - difficulty doesn't go up anymore then the 20% per month max (or max 10% per difficulty jump. The next one later today will be historically low with an estimate between 11% and 12%)
2 - bitcoin price goes up to $2000 or beyond so I make up for the lost dollars. But even then I would have been WAY better off simply holding the BTC

KensingtonLabs purchased mining contracts from cloudhashing back in May of 2013 that were suppose to start in June, then they didn't start until July, and when it started it was only at 25% of full capacity or some crap like that. We spent a total of 3.5 BTC (because back then BTC was the only way to pay) and at this point have only earned back .4 BTC. It's pretty safe to assume that by the time our contracts are up we will have nowhere near close to the 3.5 BTC initially invested.

It was our own fault, we fell for the flashy advertising on the site. They basically said 1BTC would earn 5BTC over the year contract. We should have known better, but we fell for it. We got scammed and would have been better off holding our BTC.

Now...if you are paying with credit card (which is currently an option) you will get a decent service. It's a little bit pricey, but you ultimately will see ROI. Whatever you do though DO NOT EVER BUY BITCOIN MINING CONTRACTS WITH BITCOIN, YOU WILL NEVER GET BACK AS MUCH BITCOIN AS WHAT YOU PUT IN. This company is notorious for delays, and spending all their funds on advertising. They also recently added a customer support team to deal with pissed off early customers like us who constantly e-mail them saying "what the fuck guys...what the fuck"

So in short, cloudhashing is not technically a scam, but anyone thinking they are going to spend bitcoin to make bitcoin should just hold instead.

You are deluded. Even if you pay in fiat you will not make return on investment.
Who the hell is kensingtonlabs anyway? You're not pretending you're representing http://www.kensingtonlabs.com/ (http://www.kensingtonlabs.com/), are you? Noone would believe that.
3 posts on bitcointalk and posting about how you can make a roi with cloudhashing?
I would say you're a shill for cloudhashing and part of their scam.

Cool your fucking jets moboDICK....KensingtonLabs is simply the name of the modest little scrypt mining crew me and a few friends put together.

I've been following this thread since it was started....I AM a CUSTOMER who got scammed by scamhashing's bullshit advertising. As mentioned I should have known better. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with some numbnutz...I was simply giving my honest opinion. Buyer fucking beware, don't spend bitcoins on mining contracts thinking your going to make MORE bitcoins. If I would have spent $350 on mining contracts in CASH with cloudhashing back in june of last year I would have made a USD ROI, but that would not be true if BTC was still only worth $150. I was giving my story you fucking moron. I'm in no way a shill or a representative of scamhashing. As far as im concerned I hope the whole fucking P.O.S. operation goes up in flames (as soon as my contracts are up)

So in closing....FUCK YOU SCAMHASHING, FUCK YOU VERY MUCH, BURN IN HELL.

LOL.,., ok. noted :)

You'd have to be a complete idiot to think cloud hashing from any company will earn you money complete non-sense in a few months unless bitcoin goes up to $10,000 mining will already be a prehistoric concept.

Hmmm, watch the video below, checked the price, i am not sure 85GH/s will make earn my money back.
Maybe if i change it to switch pool other sha256 coins i will  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEEbLZA4qnQ

Or go for CEX?
Seems lot cheaper is it not? Can trade there to, i want to mine eMark  ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebIWBPVubOI

And if coins go up to 10k each you would be better served to take the money you were planning on giving to cloudhashing and buying coins today.

Mining is silly until the crazy arms race of miners slows down, and that probably won't happen until people stop preordering because there is no incentive for the companies to stop until then.

not a scam :)
but there are much better cloud services on the market

Here (http://www.bitcoinupdate.nl/home/bitcoinupdate-heeft-een-deal-gesloten-voor-jullie-met-genesis-mining) you can read the top 5, a English translation can be found here (https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitcoinupdate.nl%2Fhome%2Fbitcoinupdate-heeft-een-deal-gesloten-voor-jullie-met-genesis-mining)

NR 1 ♛ Hashlets van GAWMiner
NR 2 ♛Genesis Mining (Voucher code MOON -5%)
NR 3 ✪ PB Mining
NR 4 ✪ ZeusHash: Voucher code raf0a10901b -$3 (1x te gebruiken wees snel)
NR 5 ✪ CEX.io

They can decide your earnings without any way for you to check or change.
Most of their hashrate is mining for themselfs but is payed for by customers.
They are pretty much a scam.
They just have a layer of non-scam to hide their business.
I think that most people made less money from them than they would if they just bought bitcoins at market price.

agree
they do pay tho,almost all cloud services with prepaid time limited contracts
basically  are casinos where you bet on Bitcoin price/difficulty and the house edge is 10%+(sometimes 100% )  )

I don't agree,.., with cloud hashing you will lose money for sure. With a casino you have a chance of winning.
So it's actually worse than a casino.

Also, they either got hacked or sold their email address list to criminals because i get java malware phishing attempts on the email address i registered there.

Cloudhashing are omnidirectional scum.
They are scum from every side you look at it.

 I disagree. I invested 5 figures with them in early May, and payments have been steady. As with mining, the variance lies with luck- sometimes they find a few blocks in one day, sometimes not for a couple days (rare). At the rate it has been going, with future difficulty increases included, I should make about 20-25% profit on my investment, but that does not account for the inevitable increase in bitcoin worth.
  Do not label Cloudhashing a scam. You are INCORRECT.

omnidirectional scum hahahaha lol (google: 0, similar results)

Nonsense, I infested in the first cloud Batch, they promise at least 11 bitcoin.  untill now i got:  0.76 BTC

I remember when cloud hashing just started, they were promising that you would make X amount of bitcoin with X amount if investment within one year.. There was no way they could meet those numbers, it was false advertising. I emailed them a few times to educate them on difficulty, etc. they just blew me off..

You will never get your ROI on any legit cloud mining service.. Most are ponzi schemes as Gavin said. I dont think Cloudhashing is, but PB is 100 percent scam...

Its better to invest in bitcoin and hold. I would have bee a millionaire many times over had I took my own advice.. but no, i had to get into mining. Should have stayed with the fpga, that was actually very profitable. but not since the asic race took off. Buy and hold.

May, huh? I hope you have made ROI by now because if you didn't you will never get there.
What you think you should get and what you actually get are two different things at cloudhashing.com

This.

X3  :(

+ a million

I've been warning people about Cloudhashing since April 2013. I have 2 posts on the first page of their thread claiming scam, and spent my time posting many posts in the first few pages of their thread trying to make my point. This was my 3rd post in their thread:

You can't beat math...