Bitcoin Forum

There is more and more people in Europe pledging for an universal revenue. Benoît Hamon, one of the favourite candidates for 2017 French presidential election is for exemple defending it. So there is a probability that next year France could adopt it. I would like to hear your friendly or hostile positions toward this proposition.

It is already more or less reality in finland. We just need to sit back and study them.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/03/finland-trials-basic-income-for-unemployed

Funny is both left and right wing parties want it.

This is giving people a fish instead of a rod. A ridiculous idea in my opinion.
It encourages the unemployed to remain as they are, because if they could somehow manage with no job and no money, why should they start looking for one if they get paid every month regardless of what they choose to do? €500 is a large sum, I haven't been earning this much in my first full-time job, so If I were offered this money for free I would have stayed at home and maybe work from there part-time.

You dont understand what universal income is and how the related countries are implementing it.
I really would advise you to research more about it before you are posting (nonsense).

There wont be 500€ checks in nations where the average income is 100€.

Edit

Btw. You are earning 500€ with sig spamming... atleast the welfare people dont spam nonsense all day long.

I think that is a modified communism. The consequences of such equalization we have seen in the example of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea. Is not the same people. One works in the store and the other in mine. They will equally earn?

...

We arent talking about wages.
Universal income will replace social welfare and everyone will be eligible for it.

Your example is wrong.
10 more post and you can join a sig campaign :)

I think that they will devalue the currency and cause inflation on inferior goods. If all of these people are sitting at home, being unproductive members of society what will they purchase? Probably splurge every now and then and spend that $500 on a pair of jordans, but I bet the amount of alcoholics will increase in those who receive the welfare.

However, the USA as similar programs (kind of) you can get $180 cash every month and $150-$200 a month on a card that can only be used for food. This system seems to have bred poverty in innercities because all the family knows is government handouts and do not strive for anything else

What a great response! You resort to calling me a spammer, because I have a different opinion. And of course no response to my argument of fish and rod and the incentive for the unemployed to stay unemployed, how typical.
The average income of €100? Look who's talking nonsense. Show me an € country with an average income of €100, even €200, I dare you.

Please. You looked like a idiot and now you look like a retard.
But ok i will explain again:

1. You are the one that said your first full time job got you 500€ per month.

2. welfare is always lower then average income.

3. Universal income replaces welfare.


@fish and rod

Care to explain why not every western and northern european is on welfare (people there get more then 500€ per month welfare)?
The answer is very easy. Social welfare is just enough to survive.
No new jordans, no vacation, no bio food, no cars.


Fact is you dont know what universal income is nor understand how people want to implement it but you are still posting nonsense. Spammer.

More questions?


Edit

Btw. Where did i say something about 500€ average income in an EU nation?

Your so wrong..If you give to much it will make people lazy..
Go and check how many people worked while claiming benefits..
The government had snoops who would go around checking out if people were working while claiming benefits
so they could stop that benefit..Called working on the side..

When i was growing up i knew many many people claiming while working BUT hoping they never got caught.

The government spent billions on investigators investigating people working while claiming..
THEY STILL DO..

Now how much do we pay in subsidies to big companies and banks BILLIONS every year..

give people 200 a week they will want to make 500..Give them a 1000 they will sit on butt ;)..

I know it would work..
And it's not just the unemployed who get it EVERYONE GETS IT even if your worth 10 million..
A billion even..Everyone gets it..

How do banks give a loan ..PRESS A FEW BUTTONS..
Humans do the work not money ;)..

I WILL WIN ..Universal income for all so we all got a starting point to live ;D..

Now if your from a country that pays low wages quarter average wage and pay that amount in benefits each week..

So we in the uk say middle class on 600 to 800 a week.. so we pay 150 to 200 a week for free

Can't you really answer like a normal person without ad hominem?


1. Yes, I did, and I never said it was an average income, but only that this sum (€500) was higher than my wage at the time.
2. It's still too high.
3. I'm against welfare as well, but universal income is an even dumber idea.

The answer is even easier: welfare is usually not infinite. If you lose your job you get welfare for a year and you have to start looking for a new one. It's also hard to get it if you haven't worked at all.
What about those people who haven't had any job and are yet to start their first one? Will they be motivated to start a minimum wage job, when they can get same money lying in bed and eating pizza?
Who is going to pay for that?


Fact is, you are trying to force your socialist views on others and get angry when they don't comply.

Did you see a non EU nation with wages paid in €?
Btw. than and then have different meaning.

What if you don't give people said €200, does it mean they will die or turn to crime? Why would we expect to be given anything for granted? I know people, who weren't given any money from the government and none of them ended up as a beggar or a thief. Think about all those drug addicts and alcoholics, who will now start getting (like you said) 150 or 200 a week, for free. Will they start their own business or run to the dealer?
Why would you need the government to worry about your starting point? Shouldn't one's family take care of that? How did all previous generations, those that had no universal revenue, manage to start their lives?

In west, north and south europe welfare is not time limited. Not sure about east europe.
Additionaly you always get social welfare. You didnt had to work in the past to be eligible for social welfare.
In germany if you lose your job you will get 75% of your original wage for up to 2 years until you get infinite social welfare.
Again you dont know what you are talking about.

Germany has by far the highest social standards if you include healthcare and similiar into social welfare
(Re immigrant welfare heaven).
They have full employment - now look at nations who have time limited welfare or no welfare at all.
You literaly have 3rd world conditions relating to criminality and poverty.

Im european but most of the time im still talking in dollar terms.

I don't force anything on you. In fact i dont even care what your opinion is. Im just saying that you have no clue what you are talking about and that is why you are just a retarded (sig) spammer.


What is your argument?

Maybe something else then i dont like welfare even though im actuallly loving it in the form of sig spamming.

Do you know what AI and robots will do to the work force..3d printers.. Virtual reality..
3D printing Virtual reality machine..

Want a cup well print it..
No more factories making cups and plates and so on..YOUR MIND IS BLANK..

  This new type of 3D printing was inspired by Terminator 2 - YouTube
Video for 3d printer of the future▶ 1:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TgmvV2ElQ


MIT Researchers Are Working On Mobile Phones That Assemble By Themselves: Imagine The Possibilities - S

 Researchers from MIT's Self-Assembly Lab are working on a mobile phone that is able to assemble itself, which is a project that opens up a lot of possibilities for its future applications.
The Self-Assembly Lab was established in 2011 by MIT department of architecture research scientist Skylar Tibbits. The lab was initially set up to work on 4D printing, which is a process that utilized 3D printers to create materials that can grow and change on their own.
MIT's Self-Assembly Lab has since acquired funding from DARPA to work on materials that can self-construct, including flat-packed furniture that can build themselves and self-lacing sneakers.
The latest project for the Self-Assembly Lab, in partnership with designer Marcelo Coelho, dabbles into consumer electronics with a self-assembling mobile phone, as reported by Fast Company.
- See more at: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/174685/20160823/mit-researchers-are-working-on-mobile-phones-that-assemble-by-themselves-imagine-the-possibilities.htm#sthash.bIUwnTik.dpuf

YOUR MINDS CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE THE FUTURE..

Living engines ;D..

Because people lived in caves 50.000 years ago we should do that today too?
The difference between most of us is intelligence.

People should focuss on education and not 500€ mc donalds jobs. Until 2050 majority of manufacturing and service oriented jobs will be automated.

People will always work because they strife to have a better life. And social welfare or universal income will just make it possible to survive.

But nvm i dont think that you are able to comprehend even such an easy concept.

It's a panic policy by people who have no idea what to do with 95 IQ workers who can transition from buggy whip makers to line workers fine but can't cut it as code monkeys. The idea is to just put them all on shelves and hope they don't breed.

Germany did a great job with immigrant welfare. Now the thieves and rapists are getting paid and have a lot of free time to hunt for new prey and complain about bad wifi transfers.

I wouldn't link those 3rd world conditions to low welfare but rather to high unemployment rates and low average wages.

We were talking in Euro terms from the beginning, even the linked article is about a € country

If you don't care about my opinion, why do you keep answering my posts and quoting me? A hobby or a deviation?
I have posted my arguments in the previous posts. I thought you didn't care...

As for your frequent use of the word "spammer" it takes one to know one.

I'd like to have universal revenue it would alloy me to resign and do what I like instead of working

Communist germany the richest and strongest economy in the world. Oh the irony.

Did you read the article? It is also about canada and other nations who try it.
Canada is for sure not in Europe.

It seems you are too dumb to realize but i am calling you out on your uninformed nonsense.
Your "arguments" are just uninformed ramblings.
You are talking about a topic that you dont understand at all.
Paired with a sig campaign it makes you a idiotic sig spammer.

Also try to be more unique and dont copy my words. Yawn.

Let me get this straight, you'd like to focus on education and would like other people to not only provide schools (free education), but also pay you €500 (or whatever), so you could sustain yourself for the time of learning. What else? Maybe a girl to prepare your bath and kiss goodnight at the expense of the taxpayers?
All those people, including you, have struggled to survive without social welfare and universal income, so sad.

P.S. My campaign pays only for a couple posts a day, I'm long over that limit, so all this is for free.
If you're bored you can always stop responding and change the topic, but yet here you are....

No i for sure dont need to.

People like you who earn 500€ in a full time job need to.
Be happy that i want to provide free education and some living standards to stupid people like you with my tax money.

Because if not you will be one of these no job starving beggars in the streets 20 years from now.

Like wtf. You earn your living with a fuckin sig campaign. Dont you feel ashamed to talk like that?

Lets break your questions down ;)..

What if you don't give people said €200, does it mean they will die or turn to crime?

No some will and some wont ..But the fact robots will replace many jobs and our future children will be able to study and pick the job they choose and also relax..Less stress for our future children..

Why would we expect to be given anything for granted?..

Because that is the future to get things for granted..Why..Because it stops humans from having stress..
What can stress do?..Make people do crazy shit ;D..Now why wouldn't you want a stress free world?..
It wont make people be lazy..AI will do some crazy stuff..AI CODING imagine ..

I know people, who weren't given any money from the government and none of them ended up as a beggar or a thief..So do i ;D  me i never ended up on the street..And i can loose 150 on 1 bet and not even break out in a sweat..
Still don't mean that people that are less fortunate or lucky as you and i don't deserve a life..
And also if they got children they never asked to be brought up in this world..
And that child is my child who ever it is..Why.well that child could go on to do many great things for humanity
just we don't know it yet. So lets build a better stress free world..


Think about all those drug addicts and alcoholics, who will now start getting (like you said) 150 or 200 a week, for free. Will they start their own business or run to the dealer?
It's better than them stealing off you to pay for the drugs at least they got an income ..
Most people in life want a steady life nice children home..
Drugs come with problems..Life shit..Women left me ..Husband left me..son died ..
all sorts of reasons why people hit the drugs BUT don't forget the drink is the biggest killer..
Just not many mention the drink the trouble that causes..


Why would you need the government to worry about your starting point?..
Because the politicians get free money i pay them out my tax to do as i say the people.
The government is put there by the people to do what the people tell them..
It's their job to worry about the people or whats the point in a politician ?..

Shouldn't one's family take care of that?..Well what if no jobs around or to low paid to pay for rent..
At least with 200 i can stick around or move but i will still not suffer..No stress for our future children..
I could end up a famous poet ..Wont be one if i got to work in chicken factory..
Giving our future children free choice not forced choice ..


How did all previous generations, those that had no universal revenue, manage to start their lives?

Well many year ago i could build myself a home and go hunting..
But someone come along and said i cannot go and hunt and kill any animal and also i am not allowed to just build a home i need money to have a home..
Now some come up with many ideas to make money like slaves churches kings and queens
Yes all causing trouble for the poor people..

Like slaves.. they made loads of money then they invested that money into some of the big companies you see today..But that's ok with you..

Kings and queens killed everyone and stole there lands and gold..
And still they are in power collecting taxes off the land they stole..

Churches stole lands many years ago for god and still they collect taxes to this day..Land tax..
Bankers stole every ones money then got bailed out while giving themselves huge bonuses ..
Politicians stealing money and passing it down to there children then the children invest in a weapons company set up by their father..Yes and we end up buying them..

Now the little guy will be honest and go to work 9 to 5 ..He will always get shit on he got no chance to make it..Unless he does a bank job..And some people in life will take that chance..More so than ever..
3K home in the 1990s cost 85 to 90k now..

So what chances do the young have at owning a home?..

I am glad you have made it in life but many haven't..So lets give our children a better future..
Stress less future ..

It is not viable in the long term. If 90% of the people resign from their jobs and try to live off their benefits, then the government will soon run out of money for these type of handouts.


You compare his posts to those made by the people whom he accuses of spamming. You will notice that the latter category of posts are having much better quality than the former. Most of his posts are just verbal abuse directed against the other users. The reason why I have added him to the ignore list. Not worth the time and effort arguing with him.

Why do people want to make more money..Do people just stop making money when they get to 200
No you want millions most people do.. ::)..
So sorry 90% would never sit on their butts..

Man the whole planet would just make 200 and do nothing according to you..
Everyone wants to be rich..Have you ever heard money makes money

Yawn.
You are known as one of the worst posters on this board who is also a putin shill. Nobody cares what you say or who you have ignored.
Sig spamming russian troll. :)

If that were true then I will love to migrate to their country. I am working 8 hours a day, 7 days a week and I only earn €194 a month. While in that country even if you are jobless you will receive €500 monthly. How lucky are those guys, they are not working yet they will receive 4x of what my salary is giving me. This is kinda unfair to the workers who work so hard, the government instead of giving them money why not give them work instead that way their potentials will be useful and at the same they will earn something from their hard work.

It is true that all revenues, are this kind sometimes. We all this kind of revenues, we see that politicians or some local government are this kind. We shall know what is the true characteristics of our revenues. What are their laws to be implemented, and it is worthy to us ?

https://pics.onsizzle.com/capitalism-ren-damn-a-robot-took-over-my-job-now-10383967.png

 :)

I bet you hate bankers and big banks right?  :D

Bankers hate everything, but at the same time drawn to them for money. Why? Maybe it's not the bankers? They should limit themselves in their desires? Remember that if you want to buy something on credit you want to use does not deserve it.

Why do you think that this will create an inflation ? More money will not be printed to sustain the needs, so I think that it will at the inverse incentivise people to consumate.

The government has more land than it needs.

The best approach is to donate state land to volunteer organized communal farms which can grow food to sustain the poor.

Then other forms barter, trade or education can be incorporated as an abstraction layer on top of that to prevent it from being a dead end existence.

Universal income is a bad system. There are no metrics nor incentives for socialised programs to be efficient or cost effective & that is a significant problem.

I agree with you. The worst thing that can ruin any business is egalitarianism. A lack of stimulus will cause all to stop working. Just income should not have a big gap between all employees.

Never going to be adopted around the world and I pray that it never is, paying people just for the purpose of giving them money is just a bunch of horseshit and anyone with half a brain should understand that.

I get that if you're disabled and unable to work for that money I get it, but if you're fully able to work and EARN then you should have to. Giving out money is not going to help anyone and it's just going to further the problem present.

What? I'm confused.

Europe already has a universal revenue - it's called The Euro, from the European Union.

What am I missing?

Communism doesnt work. That is what the sowjets did for 50 years. It just doesnt work.


Well you are kinda right, its called social welfare for the poor and bailout for the rich.
But people want to go abolish that and replace it by an easier to understand universal income system.

You probably forgot that Europe is experiencing not the best times. Let's see what the Europeans are doing now. Tightening the process of crossing borders, UK leaves the EU, France is also important.

I don't agree to the universal revenue because I think that encourage the peoples  stop to work  :-* !!!!

The Communists had when you tried to create a state with such egalitarianism. What impact it had we all know. It seems to me that all earnings should be different, but it should be possible for all to have a large or small income.

Communism will always fail. A society, in which a banker, who doesn't create anything gets 95% of the money, engineer who creates gets 3%, and worker gets 2% is sustainable. If others are not slaves to the bankers then society will fail. This is the "American model".  :)

I don't agree with you. Trump polls in America have shown that all is not well in this country as it seems from the outside. It was a protest voter against the existing order in America. Do you agree?

I do not want to break your dreams, but you know, you will not live with 500€ a month. People will not leave their jobs and live with 500€, that is not possible. And if some do so, at least the hardworking ones looking for a job will find one.