Bitcoin Forum

That's a certainty.

i think not dump
ussualy every bitcoin price incraese all altcoin down price, all people sell altcoin , convert to bitcoin and then convert to fiat money
people selling altcoin not dump, only convert to bitcoin

Thats just the name of the game its all about who strikes first but this is some thing new we are about to experience

Bitcoin prices are at their highest we have ever seen and some altcoins are equally soaring i dont think its the time to panic sell hold longer. 

Yes something new arrised, thats something is the new members buying bitcoin to buy other coins, thats why bitcoin and all altcoins gonna have price high records every day.

the times where the old traders and whales dictates the market is over ! the power now is between the hands of the new members investing in altcoins. whales gonna always bump and dump but the tendency of all coins gonna be high day after week after months from now.

not yet, but at some point - just don't forget   ;)


What happens when every noob has bought and new buyers come in slower? What happens when everyone has bought all the coins they wanted?  ;)

For sure he gonna always dump and pump with some bubble explosion in between like this arrised those 2days, but the tendacy gonna be always high high high, explosing all records.

Already responded, Bubble. thats the market.

Like you know, bubble are normal in a market, and crypto market is so small, so they are always gonna be bubbles.

But i'm talking there about the tendencies of high prices... its just the beginning!

Yep. And there will be much crying.

right now there is a bubble but there is also some denial in the altcoin market.
prices have gone up super fast and super big. now they need to come down in a dump, we already saw some massive dump take place. but people are associating it with poloniex being down, but it actually is the other way around, the altcoins got dumped and polo went down because of it!
we will surely see many dead cat bounces all around the market to get some more victims but eventually they all end up dumping after they lost a good amount of money and they started facing the reality.

Let's define terms, we're talking about breaking of the Great Crypto Bull market that started in the winter of 2016/17, right?

Well, this breaking is not going to happen this month. There is a possibility it will happen at year-end.

Price corrections (some as big as 33-50%) will be happening all the time though as the bull is hard to ride, it tends to throw away those who don't hold tight.

Bubble bubble bubble, what bubble are talking about? 1929 or 2008? if so cryptocurrencies have more than 10years before that big bubble.

In the meantime we are in very small bubbles sometimes because the crypto market is new and so small.

"99% of the people around me laugh when I speak about criptocurrencies. There is nobody inside this new asset class. How can we live in a bubble if 99% of the people I know do not even know what is this blockchain technology about? I think you are confusing high volatility with a bubble. Of course we will see eventually a bubble, but it will be a bubble when your taxi driver tells you how good is buying bitcoin! That will be the time to jump!" Said someone, and i'm with him.

Segwit has roughly 6 more months to activate but the outcome of this "war" will probably be known before that. My gut says 3-4 months and then things will really start to change across the board.

Any experience trader will understand that soon the market correct itself, I don't think  the correction will lead to dump because from the look of things alot of institutional funds have enter the space and expect this trend to continue and crypto get more media exposure

Go educate yourself. Go look at life time charts for coins. See that 2014 bubble for bitcoin and what happened with that? Those that have been around here for awhile know how these things tend to trend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble
"An economic bubble or asset bubble (sometimes also referred to as a speculative bubble, a market bubble, a price bubble, a financial bubble, a speculative mania, or a balloon) is trade in an asset at a price or price range that strongly exceeds the asset's intrinsic value."

or a better explanation from investopedia
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bubble.asp
"A bubble is an economic cycle characterized by rapid escalation of asset prices followed by a contraction. It is created by a surge in asset prices unwarranted by the fundamentals of the asset and driven by exuberant market behavior. When no more investors are willing to buy at the elevated price, a massive selloff occurs, causing the bubble to deflate."

a bubble has nothing to do with whether or not people around you know about that asset. it is all about price and how that price reached the current inflated state. and the two above descriptions match the situation in altcoin market 100%.
- price went up rapidly : check
- exceeding the  intrinsic value of altcoins : check
- followed by a dump : check
- history of these altcoins being pump and dump : check

More advanced crypto experts dont have the same view about the bubble, they was there in 2014..

An event happens, millions of witness, and millions of views, thats how it work, this is not like math where all mankind are ok about 1+1= 2

i'm out of this bubble talks, more advanced experts than you arent ok about it.

Depends on the type of coin you invest in.

Bitcoin is too big to change: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1908585

If all these are checked, what the hell are you doing there? Sell all your crypto to dollars right now and exit!!!

Not sure what your point is other than maybe you're simply saying they shouldn't touch it. But they are and they will... Which then invokes your other statement which is what I was alluding to.


Personally, I think if "segwit" loses, all hell will break loose while segwit "winning" will be less disruptive (there will still be some) but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

But this is true of bitcoin also, only on a larger scale.  There's no fundamental difference.  Bitcoin's economic value as a currency is only on the percent-level of its market cap.  It is tens of times over-valued if that is the fundamental.

A bubble is a bubble.  A market gets hot and all sorts of new money comes in to take advantage, often these less savvy investors are the same ones that sell off and run away when things turn sour, causing a market to implode.  Seen the story play out again and again.

Not saying one can't make money in a market running up, but don't be left without a chair when the music stops.

I'm sick of all the current bursting bubble threads. Why not just post in the many other ones instead of creating another. Makes me wonder about motive.

However,  he OP is most likely correct, as we've seen it before.

My observations are:
- I know 3 people who are now investing in crypto ,  from btc to ripple, not knowing I have been into crypto for about 8yrs. This is an interesting development and maybe the tip of the iceberg. 

- there's  a lot of new investors converting fiat>btc<>alts. This is part the reason for the recent demand and rise in btc price.

- those like me who have hodled btc  from the early days can afford to spread a few btc  across the shitcoin markets in the hope of another good investment. Personally I don't play the market but layout some investment across some alt projects I believe in.  If they all fall to shit  (like the bubble bursting cheer squad Are saying) I don't care,  because btc is still king.

- I think some alts will survive to be good value one day,  picking which ones will is the real test.

Meh... We're only at the peak of the bubble when people stop calling a bubble... When everyone is a full on bull, that's when the bubble is close to a peak.  Still way too many people including me "calling" a bubble and being bearish.

I still remember the dot com bubble.  Nobody back then at the end was calling a bubble. It was true flaming bullishness.

Which coins are dumping? Ethereum is now 89$ which is still good. Litecoin is going up and approaching 2 billion dollars of market capitalization. Even dash and monero are still going up. I believe dump is not there yet. And what will start happening is not a dump but rather a stabilization. Good coins will be distinguished more from bad ones and the prices will stop changing that fast. It will just become harder to manipulate alts' prices.

Of course what comes down up at some point will come down,this is what makes trading exciting you never know when it;s going to happen,you must have a hint when it's going to happen,that is why trading is not for the weak in heart and are not risk taker.

Maybe worth mentioning: 2013 and 2014 bubbles had higher interest from the www in general - and marketcap is much higher now than it was back then.
Currently interest in btc is half as big as it was on the peak in 2013/14 and only 2/3 from the bubble in early 2013.  
Look, Litecoin had much higher interest in 2013/14 than Ethereum has now.

https://i.imgur.com/W6K1WVq.png

Don't think there's no risk. It might be overvalued already. Ethereum and LTC certainly are overvalued aswell as ripple, nem and many other alts.

just my 2satoshi

Yes and depend on the ways of investments long or short investments
the markets goes dump and pump are good to testing the trend of price,
 they are needed by all of ecosystem especially for the traders altcoins are like me
we just need the right altcoins to investing into there.

Yup there's a bubble people have been moving back into Bitcoin now from the Altcoins only look at times like there moving up because thier paired against bitcoin who's price has moved up ! and people have figured this out so now people are buying Bitcoin so Bitcoin is rising by people leaving alt coins plus people buying bit coin because it's going to rise Pretty crazy. Just think of what the price Bitcoin will be as all the market caps from Alts go into Bitcoin. The problem is the volume in alt coins have been decreasing because The Alt market topped out. and with no buyers to sell too people are loosing money and opting out as they do this Bitcoin sores. The new money moving into Bitcoin is not enough to move the alt markets but with only sixteen million bitcoins the price sores. There will be a huge bear market in Alts and a bull market in Bitcoin until the amount that goes into Bitcoin can support the volume needed to put a floor in Alt prices until then people will continue to move out of Alts. And Bitcoins prices are truly supported by volume giving more reason to hold Bitcoin over alts. And as Bitcoin surges the price becomes more parabolic.

I didn't want to bring it up just yet but I remember this. All I'm going to say is if you hold Bitcoin you make money as people opt out. The top in Bitcoin hasn't happened yet. but the signs of a bear market and Top in the Alt market has ! People are blind to what's going on back in 2013/14 People lost thousands of dollars it was crazy. Could you ad ripple to this. Ripple was another one. I think it's market cap got to 4bilion before The crash.

No they don't get distinguished from bad ones. The Crypto currency market is different then the stockmarket.
All the coins go to nearly zero because you don't know if the Government will shut everything down so people don't put all the money back in for years until their certain. It's a huge risk who will put ten thousand dollars into a coin after a crash not knowing if the government will shut everything down. That's why if you look at the chart the prices were rediculously low for all those years.

I can see that most altcoin dump at the moment meanwhile bitcoin continue to increase everyday.
I think altcoin still adapting on bitcoin value which I'm very amaze to see current value for bitcoin.

Keep hold guys !

I don't have any problem with market is going down, it is just about how to make analysis of price
and what will be done if the trend of price is going down,
if the markets is still going down, i never trading altcoins until there is signal the markets starts going up
 or if i have made wrong prediction and open positions, it is time to cut lost.

Sounds about right to me.

Lets not forget the buying of Altcoins was because of the lure of profits.
So follow the chain..
New guy shows up, then he buys BTC (so he can buy ALT's for ROI's)
That causes BTC to soar higher..
When the momentum swings the other way with Altcoins the stampede will dry up.

I seen this in late 2013.
A boom of users flocked here and bought anything not nailed down.
They didn't care what.
But it came crashing down eventually.

The reality is if a group of guys walk into a room with money only a couple will walk out with most of it.

Your grandiose profits guys are the money taken straight out of MANY other users wallets.
Where the hell do you all think these huge profits come from ?
They come from a LOT of guys losing small amounts combing into a larger gain for you !
It's a deadly simple math and.. a mathematical certainty.

I seen a science TV show that show cased a scientific formula for the process.
It resembled boiling water.
It's been pointed out how all of human history has repeated this formula too.
Countries that started over and had all the money divided up equally quickly had the 1% hold all the wealth.
It's the way of life in every aspect and undeniable and unavoidable.
It's pretty much entropy.
It's like trying to stop the universe from expanding (a form of entropy)

Most of you will be losers and that is a fact.
Some will profit.
Some will break even and even fewer will walk away a winner at the Altcoin Casino.

Who's staying at the table ?
All it takes is a blow of the wind and momentum will swing the other way.
Then the hoards will super dump in pure panic.
And all this soaring Altcoins action can not be sustained.

There will be dumping.

If only we knew when... FOMO is keeping people in, we don't want to get away from this returns.

i hope peolple will sell before the giant dump happens... support is already vanishing and market is moving into a panic state im not a fudder truss me basend on a real world analysis i believe this correction is just the beginning of the longest bear market in the history of crypto currencies. there will be blood on the streets and alt bubble is about to pop... wish i had sold all at the top yesterday

Like the buying of bitcoin.  No difference.

I think there will not be a correction on altcoin prices. Yes it has been going up steadily overtime but I believe after all the dust settles and bitcoin prices gets back to lower prices (I suppose around 1200 would be normal) and altcoin prices fluctuates a bit more.

There will be at least 50% marketshare of altcoins compared to 50% bitcoin. It was 70%+ just couple months ago. I think it can go even further in time.

they are on the same line bitcoin is getting a little dumped now, probably a price correction, and altcoin, too are in price correction area now, everyone know that at some point dump are healthy to redistribute the wealth, you can't think that the value will increase indefinitely withotu a break, this would be stupid lol

Nothing is certain, but I think a correction is definitely on its way.  With the exception of a couple of alts that I believe will hold their value, I see a big dip coming soon.

the thing you forgot about altcoin market is that it is pumped so it actually IS certain that they will be dumped. some altcoins will be harder to get dumped because they have attracted so many newbies and they slow the dumping process down and some altcoins which are smaller will get dumped faster.

and also because of it, there are a lot of weak hands in the market and when (what you call) correction happens, there will be a mass panic sells and that will dump the price.

If you are an amateur traders certainly but a skillful and professional traders I disagree with you. Professional traders don't relay on news and pump for trading but they used technical analysis for entries and exists plan and when to hold trading. Successful traders daily plan and review their trade, their don't just buy and leave the market to decide for them but wisely trade along with trend.

After so many pumps, there'll be dumps for sure, who knows may be in many altcoins. Long term holding is the key to success with cryptocurrencies.

..spewin' a whole lot of bullshit i see guys.

Bottom Line:
- There has to be mass dumping.
- Most will be losers.
- Only one way out = dump before the next guy.

I find it forever amusing how all 10 of 10 guys in a room think they are smart and will be the "winner" getting profit.
When it's a mathematical impossibility.

In the ALT scene every trader think he's the smart one..
It doesn't matter what you think though.
It's math.. it's the way of life.

What happens when you go to a casino and pick any game and keep playing ?
You lose ALL your money.

So the only way to prevent this eventual scenario is to dump before the other guy.
Then the domino effect kicks in and there you have it 70% losers and a few break even
and even fewer come away with large profits.

Not sure how the hell you guys can ramble on not grasping this deadly simple concept.
It is the way it is here and how it always will be.
All the talking shit on a forum won't prevent your wallet from getting any lighter  :D

..your gambling on worthless unregulated shitcoins in a rigged market scene guys.
You'd have better odd's at any regulated and accountable Casino then you would "playing Crypto"
Hell you would have the same or better odd's buying a regulated and accountable lottery ticket.

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EDIT:

@iram3130
I agree to an extent (i get what you are saying)
But.. Time is money.
If you bought coins and you missed the chance to dump for profit and it takes another year or two for another chance to even break even then your still taking a loss.
Because your money invested is worth money.
Time = money.
..get what i am driving at ?

Do you all think these two cases are equal ?

- User #1 gets profit in 10 days for $100.
- User #2 gets profit in 100 days for $100.

..meanwhile during that time with your money "tied up"
you could have put the money in any bank and pulled in a minimum guaranteed profit.

That's the essence of a greater-fool game, and all of crypto, bitcoin included, is a greater-fool game.
(apart from those few who use it simply as a means of payment, by quickly obtaining coins, transacting, and selling them).

That said, in a greater fool game, there ARE winners ; they need "adoption" however, to have armies of losers financing their gains ; and they draw in the losers by showing how they can (dream to) be "winners".

It is the core of crypto.  And that's because most if not all crypto is based upon deflationary stuff.
Deflationary stuff is always greater-fool.

..greater-fool game is the correct term for it i guess Dino ;)
You get what i am saying LOL

But i don't think many of these guys get it.
They think it's all up up up.. and nothing but a bright future.

The first guys i seen to pump in the scene were Fontas and Headless etc.
I told headless way back if he killed his cow the gravy train would dry up..
He did !

In other words pumpers don't *usually pump with out dumping again at some point.
Although i think the idea of "pumping" a coin has now turned into a marketing thing almost.
Coin teams now want to have their coins pump and hopefully RETAIN THE VALUE LATER
where as way back pumpers didn't care if they left the coin for dead..
But..
Let's not be fools.. anyone pumping is going to be taking profits.
No one is going to simply pour money into some project with out hoping to realize a return on it *eventually.

---

EDIT:

For example Butters from Ethereum infamy took a million dollar dump (if not more)
And where did that million dollars come from ? Thin air ? hahahha  :D

The Bitcoin pump in 2013 happened because there was an overwhelming consensus that Bitcoin can have real world use some day. That pump dumped, and Bitcoin has since resurrected itself with concrete evidence of real world usage.

Same thing is happening right now. Everyone sees all these wonderful promises and decides that altcoins are going to do big things some day. Well, they currently aren't doing jack shit- so a pump correction is imminent.

 
 Which market do you mean?

 Bitcoin would certainly fall down a good bit if the world suddenly became more stable, but how often has that happened?

 The other coins market is trickier because while it too is in a bubble, many individual coins within it HAVE created new
value with their innovations. The many coins which dont add real tangible value to something WILL fall hardest and fastest

Well put.  I think a good example of this at the moment would be something like Bela.  There's a fund and developers trying to monetize it and create a useful platform for it to extend beyond just trading.  That said, if you watch it's charts for the past weeks it's getting artificial support during dumps to keep the price from dropping below a threshold limit, and hence has been very stable.  It's probably a safe bet that Ambia is ponying up much of those BTC to do so. 

With that in mind though, it's POSSIBLE (perhaps not plausible) that some of these new ventures (for Bela their instagram competitor) will gain some level of adoption.  It will be in common adoption of these coins that money could be made outside the spec trading markets.  There's definitely very real opportunity for long term profits, and it's also very likely that blockchain currency will play a major role in 21st century economics, but right now it's pretty much blind horse betting.

I do not know what is the point of the thread, of course the market changes and at some point we are going to be on the losing side, that is nothing new and it is common sense.

Market is always on condition dump and pump, that is fact of markets but we can not blame the markets
because we are losing bitcoin or not getting profit from trading, we just need follow the markets and find the trend of price, the markets is going dump is mean stop trading and the markets is going pump is mean start trading.

It is completely common in every trading industry because there will be always pumps and dumps, but in choosing the best is very hard to find then you will make lot money through Crypto Currency. At the same you have wait patiently until your turns comes.

Yeah and i guess we cant do anything about that becaude that is the circulation and the system of the market that how it work we just need to follow what is happening in the market in order to earn or multiply our bitcoin in a trading system.

This is the time to get out of big cap coins. I truest believe they are overbought right now. NEM worth 1 billion is a joke, who even uses it?

Small caps with lots of potential will weather any dump.

Totally true , Because in my opinion the dump or rise in the market of the altcoins doesn't results into the increase or decrease in.the market of anything like altcoins trading or even bitcoin trading Because there are many numbers of the peoples who always works at the internet with bitcoin for Thier living , so they can't stop Their work and with small effect of the price people will continue Thier work of the trading and buy and also other business that they were doing .
So here overall in my opinion Everything is going fine and this is not the first time that is happening with the bitcoin ,. this is the beauty fo the bitcoin to fall and up the price .

bitcoin price was pumped back in 2013 because there was only one big exchange called Mt Gox which controlled all the bitcoin trading volume. it had nearly 75% to 80% of the market volume.

(sounds familiar doesn't it, Poloniex having same share of the volume in altcoins)

yeah the thought of bitcoin being a real word currency could have affected the price but not as the main reason. the difference however is that even back then there was a lot of real world usage for bitcoin.

but it has never been true about any of the altcoins, most of the top altcoins in lists are centralized anyways!

as i always say, people are in denial during the pumps and as long price is high. and when it drops they start panicking and the sells starts catastrophically.
same thing is true about bitcoin too, when it rises too fast, it will drop. but the difference is that bitcoin is going to be bought back again because it has a good future and still has real world usage but not altcoins. the dump will kill most of them and the bigger ones will go back to low prices and stay there until a long time to get pumped again.

If an alt coin which is developed with a good concept (there is a few)  is massively dumped,  the long termers will sweep the blood of the floor and fill their bags. .. .. and wait out another year.

There is some worrying posts about this section of the board though, by newbies looking for the rainbow leading to a pot of gold.

Meh.

And when dump happens then what, we can forget for all altcoins and buy only Bitcoin and this is it? I refuse to believe this can happen. This is to good for making money and it will stay in endless loop, buy sell pump dump. You only need to be smart when to join and when to exit.

if they dump now they will re enter later and another pump will start, it's always like that in crypto never stable value, we are accustomed to that, what can make this true is that the one who get the money one time will lose it the next round and the one who lose the first one will make it in the second and so on, endless loop of pump and dump like you said, where few people will take huge profit all the other are playign a sum zero game lol

Being a quality project means little.
It's about the reality of the situation..
What *WILL* happen ? Not dreams & fantasies.

There has to be an ever increasing sustained user base spending money.

That is the core issue at work here guys.
Why doesn't mean much.. it's about what *IS*.

The reality is unless we see an increasing level of money pour into a project etc it will stall.
When that happens the dev's now a days prop it up.
Ethereum was doing that the whole time since the early super hype / pump campaign.
It's been one of the most heavily manipulated coins we ever seen.

I seen Zack who was working with Jagropolite admitting publicly to do that too.
He said on Cryptsy chat he was not going to let the coin fall..
The more people dumped the more he sat there putting up walls as people dumped into them.
Eventually he was overwhelmed of course.. i told him it was stupid.

So..
Don't sit there assholes and pretend like dev teams are not doing this.
They are doing it and it's now standard practice.
You are all playing a rigged and heavily manipulated little profit game guys.

All you need to do is watch the crowd..
Once you see a market stall only two things will happen ..the mystery whale will jump in and pour in cash.
Or it will slump down losing value.

Then with all these coins sky rocketing up in value we can safely assume it has to come back down.
Why ?
Natural growth.. AKA: adoption.

The prices shoot up because of one type of user.. the PROFITEER.
If average folks like my grand parents were a part of the reason for all these ALT's exploding up in price i'd say ok we have a stable price to work with.
But the reality is we see more noobs and whales pumping coins.
..simply for profit.

Since day one i have been preaching to noobs to watch your ass.
Don't be a dreamer.. low hanging-crypto fruit.

I don't want to see noobs take losses.. but they will.
Many will because of the bullshit coin floggers post here all the time too.
There is no shortage of bullshit predictions that get posted here (all engineered to get your money basically)

Do what ever the hell you all want.. just be careful guys.

I have to say I never understood this fundamental distinction between Ford-T and other cars, that is, between bitcoin, the very first crypto currency, and all the others.  Of course, being the first, and on top of that, with a mysterious start, adds to the celebrity, but apart from being the first, in what ways is bitcoin special ?  It has the oldest technology, it has of course the widest network, and, just as with alt coins, its real world usage is small as compared to its speculative market cap.

The "actual usage" of bitcoin, you know, to buy stuff on the internet (other stuff than crypto or fiat of course !), apart from dark markets and extortion which are the true applications of crypto currencies, or of any other crypto for that part, has almost nothing to do with its speculative market value, which is just the value of an abstract betting token.  Crypto is totally speculation dominated, and its little bit of real world usage outside of this, is insignificant in the price setting of the asset.

This is a bit like saying that silver is of course truly valuable, as compared to, say, erbium, because with silver, people make spoons.  True, there are many more spoons made out of silver than out of erbium.  But the spoon-making industry is not what gives silver its value.

Ethereum has probably much more applications in the gambling industry: ethereum is the perfect gambling crypto, because you can write your bets in solidity.  So in a way, ethereum is more adapted to the world of gambling, betting and speculation, than bitcoin, which can essentially only transact. But again, the real usage of these tokens is of essentially no importance in its price setting, which is much more similar to the price setting of collector stamps and complex derivatives, purely based upon the interaction of technical analysis betters on the self-created market.

Everybody who is into the crypto exchange obviously knows its a risk which might pay off or not and the issue of dump or pump is something one cannot control and the moment it happens, most of us just move with the tide after all I am not the only one that will be affected no matter how  unlucky I am. But at the same time when we were making the money during pumps no one complains so it should just work both ways.

With dump (currently in progress) comes great buy opportunities. Get ready to buy low.

It's the exciting part of being into crypto also. Sometimes what was speculated most turned to be worst one and the one that no one bothered went on the increase on price. Everybody does know the risk but not everybody knows how to avoid risk and where the find risk that is worth risking of risk that goes to fail. It's not controllable but i think it can be managed by reading news and updates in coins.

The market dumped on me a couple times pretty hard. Turned me off to cryptos in general and made me back out of the ETH presale (hindsight is 20/20). Thinking about getting back into it but damn ETH has shaken things up. Everything seems to have changed from building the best decentralized currency to building the best blockchain (ecosystem).

Buy-and-hold probably saves you from looking at the chart everyday.

Not if the project is solid and you are patient. Just avoid margin.