Bitcoin Forum

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

I agree.  That is why I use the Bitcoin Unlimited node and am diversifying into LTC, DSH and ETC.  As soon as the mempool clears, I think we'll drop below the 200 DMA, due to anger *again* over fees/wait times.  It's so unnecessary.  If we made it 2MB there wouldn't be the mempool.

As a miner though, I do get a small windfall from the higher fees, but it's not much and they're eaten up by sending high fee transactions.

indeed. The low transaction fee's are a lie now. better to buy your pizza with real money or pay more with BTC.

Can anyone tell me for whom those fee's are, and why they are rising?

The fees are being paid to miners to process transactions. The higher the volume of transactions the more effort is required to process, minres are motivated to process transactions that carry a higher fee first. This triggers a cascading effect, if a user what a transaction to be processed sooner he has to pay more.

In the traditional processing model, processing fees go down with volume. Users and acquirers work with a predictable pricing structure. Acquirers compete with each other driving making fees more competitive for merchants. Bitcoin turned this upside down and made users compete with each other. I believe this is not sustainable.

They are rising because there is a limit on haw many transactions can be inserted in a block.

So in order to have yours there you have to pay more than the others.
And thus fees are rising.

If there would be less transactions there would be no demand for space so you could get away with 0 fees.



No it does not.

Im not an expert but from what i've heard even if costs were $10 each it would mean price was sky high and probably likely bitcoin is being moved to settle big transactions. All smaller transactions can happen via services being built on top of the blockchain.  Not sure if thats a good idea or what.

well if frees are what concern you most just loot at paypal of skrill for example. Do you like that better ? I will always prefer having higher fees and no one above me to fuck with my money

I said similar things in my topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917152.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917152.0)

Yes, I agree with you. Bitcoin is becoming useless as a payment system.

Transactions are extremely simple for miners to process and they can be processed nearly instantly.  The problem is that improvements in miner technology along with dramatically increased revenue from the rising price mean that there dramatically more miners than are actually needed to secure the network.  Furthermore, to scale the network miners have to come to a consensus on what to do, and by not scaling the network miners earn the transaction fees on top of the existing block reward, meaning that there are more and more miners added which seldom actually want to scale, and if they do it's only out of the desperate prospect that Bitcoin might become less popular.

Therefore the network will scale once everyone rushes to do everything at the same time with no actual consensus, or once BITMAIN and other monopolies give up on BU to shift to SegWit.

Eventually, I think it does have to happen.  Naturally, if people ran away from Bitcoin to alts (not actually happening yet) a scaling solution would be implemented.

That is complete, comprehensible and understandable answer, for a tech newbie like me. I could understand increased traffic and miner getting a fee. just not why it has to increase so much.

Thank you!

Fees discrepancy causes an issue with payment finality. No one maybe fucking with your money but if your money can't reach nowhere on time, who gives a fuck?

i don't remember getting the memo about bitcoin is supposed to be cheap, and it certainly has never been the main reason for using it.

maybe people have forgotten what decentralization means! what it really means when you are in full control over your money without needing a fucking bank to tell you what to do with it, to block your money, take whatever they want from you, government put their hands in your pocket, ...

we all know fees are high and we prefer it to be lower, we want to still be able to send transactions with lower fees. specially since miners don't deserve the extra income at this point with 12.5BTC reward per block. but that doesn't change anything about bitcoin's usefulness.

A lot !  Namely how much other speculators will speculate more than you do !  That's how you can make money out of that !

That is if you make a payment in cash with a store located in your area. but if you buy goods at a distance of course make money transfers is mandatory. Than using BANK or other media of course bitcoin far to provide convenience. Besides we can track whether the transaction is successful or not.

Even with high fees,bitcoin is still used and would be used in future also for transactions.It would be better if there is lesser fee but people will not go to altcoins for this reason.

As bitcoin price bounces back it actually becomes even more useless. The fees are getting higher and higher every second thus it is pretty much not worth using it on daily basis. Just imagine buying a coffee in a shop for 3 dollars and paying additional 1.5 dollars on the fees for it, it is just horrible, we need bigger blocks right now so that all the spam transactions wouldn't have any impact on the mempool and people transactions could be confirmed even with the lowest fees in every single block, in this way we might accelerate the adoption and bring back bitcoin to life again. BU FTW

Bitcoin will scale and the fees issue will be solved at some point.
If any of you think Bitcoin is gonna die because the fees are too high, then you have NO idea what Bitcoin (or cryptocurrency for that matter) is and should go back to using cash. It is absurd to think that a cryptocurrency valued at $1800 and with a $30B market cap is useless due to high fees. It's like you think there aren't a plethora of other advantages.

After the price correction everything with transaction fees and confirmation time will be just fine.
I partially agree with your thoughts.Bitcoin is used mainly for speculation and gambling.
This prooves that bitcoin isn`t a real currency.

How come a thing would be useless if it has many uses? How come people say bitcoin is useless when they are using it? Bitcoin has only a little flaws in the transaction fees and yet other people thinks it is useless. The nature of human, when they don't get what they want, they imply negative image to it. Which is very wrong. Maybe you can say that bitcoin is useless if you yourself is not using it.

if you want to transfer a couple of thousands of dollar with bitcoin you still pay the same low fee of $0.7-$0.8 but with a bank you will end up paying a percentage of what you transfer.
so it is still pretty cheap.

the higher fees are annoying for sure but there are a lot more to bitcoin than just cheap fees.
and worst things that can happen is that bitcoin can just be an investment that people speculate about. nothing wrong with that :)

bitcoin was an experiment once, a long time ago. now bitcoin is a real currency that many people recognize it as such and many countries are even starting to do so.

No , it has nothing to do with the price.
The competition for the space in the blockchain will still be around and people will still pay a higher fee for that.

Even if bitcoin price will drop to half if the number of transactions will double then you will see double txfees.

Most o the users wanting to transact with low fees that is why more transactions have traffict in the block chain. But if you want to transact quickly you should pick the higher fees.
But for me i do not like gambling because i can not generate income in this method.

Well it wouldn't be great to use it for a sandwich or drink.

Does it make it useless. Nope, it is and amazing saving tool, store of value and should be treated as such.

I think everyone should buy one

With the in increase in the amount being paid for transaction fees which is quite unfortunate but that does not mean the end of bitcoin we are always very happy to see increase in the price of bitcoin and quickly with the "bitcoin to the moon" threads but not with the cost attached to it. If the rate of increase of transaction has not overshadowed the increase in price, people will continue using bitcoin and its death is not near.

What for?

It's local type of business but bitcoin revolution will make change in this business as, if it's been adopted in these field. Never be useless. You could buy the bitcoin or hold it in your wallet. This will help you to move forward, when you are in need of money. It has the potential to change big value also in some years.1

I don't agree with this at all. If you are performing only micro transactions and you don't use bitcoins for anything else then probably you have some problems but bitcoin is much more then this. And I wouldn't call bitcoin an experiment because through years bitcoin has shown all abilities and advantages and that can be part of finances.

I think that bitcoin failed his first intent, the original intent was to be a digital money. Here is what Satoshi Nakamoto said in the original whitepaper:

"The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions,
and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must
be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need.
A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties
can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments
over a communications channel without a trusted party" (Satoshi Nakamoto)

I highlight this part  "The cost of mediation increases transaction costs", Bitcoin has become what he fought against


For those that don't believe that alcoins can replace Bitcoin take a look in the market dominance of Bitcoin.

Now Bitcoin is becoming each day more and more  the Debian of the digital currencies but it can be the next blockbuster/kodak.

Bitcoin was never advertised or designed to be micropayment solution. Flat TX fee is better suited to transfer a large sum of money.
It is still viable remittance option as you send rather large amount of money at once.

Bitcoin is accepted as payment method by many companies and services, it is legal payment tender in Japan, and soon will be in Australia.
Do you really think that it has no utility potential?

Bitcoin can be upgraded, and will be eventually. Just so you know, bitcoin is the most widely used cryptocurrency, network is also spammed by hostile force constantly.
Any other altcoin in similar circumstances would do poorly.

In term of small transaction or micropayment, bitcoin is almost useless right now. The fee is high compared to the money you send. But if you send a large amount of money, then the fee is small compared to other payment method. The utility is still there, it's up to the user to set the fee but if you want your transaction to be confirmed fast, then high fee is your only choice.

I hope that we could still use bitcoin with just a small fee for every transaction like what we do in the old days,
Hope we could do it again but it seems like bitcoin is becoming more popular and that is the reason why we have more users now.

As much as I would like to agree with you. Having failed as a remittance mechanism or a good store of value, I'm struggling to see the value of the Bitcoin as an asset class. It can't be used for high value settlement, it's not enough volume. It's destined to remain niche with limited attraction from speculators. The uptick in popularity we are seeing now is driven by a lack of understanding and a short-term desire to make quick buck.

Thats it, it become more popular than before thats why they put transaction fees to prioritize the one who pays that transaction fee, but you can still send bitcoin without paying, but it is more longer than before, you have to wait up to 2-4 hours or so on. One time, i have waited 2 working days before i received my bitcoin and the reason of that is there is more users sending and receiving bitcoin to their wallet thru blockchain, But thats fine, as long as i still receive my bitcoin.

We all know that once all coins mined the fees would replace the reward to the miners, what we werent expect is those fees to be charged at the moment while they mining still active, soo i see the high fees as a wall to some people, wich can make some loose interest, the low fees transaction isnt happening at all.

We all have the same hope, we want to pay a low fee, so we need a solution to solve the problem, and the solution is segwit.

Confirmation times is related to the transaction volume and the transaction volume has nothing to do with the price(at least for now). Transaction fees can be tied to USD but even if the price is going to fall down, people would pay more to get their transaction priority and balance it out.

Bitcoin is still a currency as in its main purpose is to transact money. We need a consensus on how to scale Bitcoin. Only then we can enjoy the full benefits that Bitcoin can provide.

Bitcoin is not useless at all and it makes sense in every way you look at it. Before anyone starts grumbling over bitcoin,  I think taking time out to consider the so many solutions bitcoin have brought compared to what we have with payment systems like Paypal, we can now begin to appreciate bitcoin the more.

Your post is another avidence that Bitcoin community should avoid BU by any means necessary.
All BU supporters are obvious enemies to bitcoin like you and Roger Vermin and other altcoiners

Oh really...
Satoshi said something else:

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

He never saw bitcoin as an investment., unlike % of the current users.

Bitcoin is not useless because it is one of the currency that helping the people to earn money online and have a back up investment because of their holdings and a lot of people already trusted bitcoin and that is enough to say that bitcoin is not useless.

I can assert that bitcoin brings a lot of benefits to the community, which simplifies all transactions in the world.

- Paying around 5$ when sending more than 1000$ worth of bitcoin looks expensive?
- Usual remittance service take anything between 20-50$ for one transaction and it keep increasing with amount you want to transfer. So bitcoin remittance is still cheaper.
- Bitcoin is profitable asset to invest rather than just another payment gateway.
- Bitcoin is way stronger and still cheaper for transactions compared to other methods.

That means bitcoin is going out from the micropayment transaction. The rising of bitcoin fees is really hurting the bitcoin itself.
As long as those needed it and I can't say if bitcoin will be useless, But it will die as a micropayment method.

The people must recognize to send a higher fee for every transaction.

And this destructs the purpose of bitcoin to be a micropayment method I suppose.

As far as I know this is too far from the Satoshi nakamoto's speculation.

Well, it isn't cheap at all. Also consider not everyone can afford to send large amount of money, most of us want to use it as a micropayment service too, not just to send large amount of money.

Don't compare to bank wires, because banks suck. Bitcoin should be far better than this...

The miners are in here for the business and oh boy,  business looks pretty damn good for them right now. They just say that they have all these 24/7 maintenance and on call people that cost them a lot but they are also earning tons of money 24/7. Whichever way they put it, they are doing bitcoin more harm than good with all these escalating fees.

Yes but still not really useless since the bitcoin price is high good enough for people whos having a bounty or signature campaign here that have a bitcoin payout and when you converted the bitcoin is cash that will cost a big amount also.

And about what are you going to debate?

What are your points? You claim that "Bitcoin is officially dead", but that's bullshit bordering on outright trolling and shilling. So what is point really, trolling and shilling? Bitcoin main utility as of now is and will certainly remain for the time being that of speculation. If you keep your bitcoins either in your home wallet or in an exchange account, you basically don't care about transaction fees. Further, Bitcoin prices rising multifold (say, to 10k dollars) may give it a strong boost toward making transactions cheap, for example, via payment channels or other off-chain solutions like web wallets and similar account-settling services

Bitcoin is very useful for us.We must use bitcoin..

Very useful for what? I think you didnt read main statement and give us explanation with your statement.

In my opinion Bitcoin is becoming useless as a payment system, because of transaction fee also increase. But i believe bitcoin still useful for digital asset purpose

i am agree with you because i think bitcoin is really worth now as we can see that there will be more people that wants to join into bitcoin world and many of them join here because of the price. from time to time, we can see bitcoin have strong in value and bitcoin can offers many good thing that will help people too.

I had to pay someone from Eastern Europe last week. I wrote a check in the US to their US bank account. It cost me zero in fees. I bought something from EBay UK last week. I used a credit card. I paid no fees and, in fact, I got 3% cash back. The bank paid me to perform the transaction.

Now, you may say "but the vendor had to pay fees" when I used a credit card. Yes, that is true. But I don't see that fee, it is the same price whether I buy with credit card or some other payment system. I want to use the cheapest payment method so I use my credit card which pays me to make the transaction.

When I send people money in dollars that is transferred into their local currency, I use Transferwise. It costs me $3 to send any amount under $300 and I sent in my local currency and they get the money in their local currency (24 hour rate lock of mid market rate).

Now, I can send bitcoin to them with a lower bitcoin transfer fee but they can only use the bitcoin without fees if they use the bitcoin directly. If they don't use the bitcoin directly and want to convert it to local currency, they pay additional fees. Also, I don't get paid in bitcoin by my employer so to buy bitcoin in the first place, I incur purchasing fees. Looking at all the various fees, Transferwise is much cheaper and easier to use to send amounts like that internationally. Also, there is a legal trail to the transfer so if I get ripped off, I have proof of the transfer. If bitcoin was cheaper, I would use it. But it isn't cheaper for anything, including international payments.

State what you want, in my opinion Bitcoin is not useless because whatever transaction fee I put the transaction will get confirmed without any issues eventually.
If I wanted to send a transaction, it would cost a little bit of money, not $1. How are people getting the $1 fee? It kind of makes me question if any of the user's on this forum actually send their Bitcoins or they are just repeating what the other person posts.

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it.  The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

It's not worthless because at any time a solution can appear and the improvement be done on Blockchain, so everything can back the good functionality again. It's really sad to have transactions delaying and high fees, but it's a part of the process, we must find the fails and fix it. Also, there are many investors at this moment buying BTCs, if it was so bad like you say, people would be selling all their BTCs and investing in another currencies.

It is basically the same here

You should just pick up the right bank to minimize your expenses in regard to remittances. I guess it is not so easy to choose a miner that would agree to confirm your transactions with low or no fees at all (unless you are that miner, of course). Further, most banks (even the greediest of them) set up an upper limit on the fees you are to pay, and after you reach that limit the amount of fees remains the same no matter how much you are going to  transfer

If one does not go deep into those deep high technologies in the field of cryptography, then in reality it can be said that Bitcoin's minimum benefit is the earnings for the user, of course others are looking for  Special preferences and passion for Bitcoin, but for me, first of all, this product with the help of which I get real money.

If this pending transaction problem is not resolved in the future, the growing number of users with millions of traffic in bitcoin transactions will keep them in saturation, and automatically negative things you say will come true. Bitcoin will become unfit and not used anymore.

The rise in price made it look like it is very expensive.
There is one solution here. Lower the satoshis that are needed to make the transaction.
There is no problem with considering they will still profit the same if they convert it to US dollar.
And they are screaming about the electric bills right? There is also no problem with that just seeing how high a bitcoin is.
The miners now are really getting a lot of profits here. 

we cannot disagree to that, having a transaction fees with a little amount than the money we would need to withdraw is fair, it will be unfair if the money that we are withdrawing will be more smaller than the transaction fees. we need to accept this fact , although im agree with your sentiment but still i cant disagree with rules, bitcoin value grews a lot so thats the effect maybe.

I agree better to have a full control of my fund than someone have the capability to freeze it.  I would avoid those services that offers cheap to free services then can freeze or stole the money from my account. Aside from that, the current rise in fee equivalent is due to bitcoin increased in price.  Anyway,  I believe this problem will be fix, we just need to wait until scaling issue is solved.

You are right the market does determines the value. However, ask yourself, how often do markets get it wrong? Remember the Dotcom bubble? or many other time when a security crashed dragging the entire market down. What I'm trying to say is the true value of bitcoin has been misrepresented as cheap money remittance tool. Bitcoin is not a utility anymore. So, what intrinsic value is there?

How can it be useless if it is the most cheapest money transfer nowadays. And also it is good investment assets for future, despite the short-term ups and downs the price goes up constantly.

To say the transaction fees is not a matter for concern will be an understatement because the cost these days is definitely on the high side but I still don't believe its what makes bitcoin useless as we still have other advantages that will still work for to the favour of bitcoin like the anonymity and the convenience is something that means a lot.

With today prices if the fee of your transaction as you post is $1 that means about 55000 satoshis, the size of your transaction is more than the median usual (225 bytes); except if you would like your tx being confirmed in the next block. More over the the tx fees is about $1 because the today price of btc is about $1800. If we go some months ago say 11/2016 the 1btc=$600 with the today network load the same tx fees would cost 33 cents. So, I would like to ask you; Would you like a cheap btc or an expensive one so as if you hold it to be more rich in the future?

I suppose that fees are going to those people who created exchangers and apps that convert bitcoin to other currencies. Well, it;s normal that sites and programms need money to pay for work to all those people who support its work. Very good scheme by the way. I think those guys are rich already with such kind of business.

1) cheaper trans fees are not the only benefit of using bitcoin, as a matter of fact i'd still be using bitcoin even if it cost me $6-7 a transaction.
so no i dont think it makes bitcoin useless, not even by a long shot.
2) my reason for using bitcoin is because it keeps going up in value: and not the just financial type. already its become possible to help change lives of those in third world countries because of bitcoin. for example i can give $1000,00 usd to 1 person in a third world country and it will not be used by or for them at a 98% probability as either the government wont allow them to keep the money i gave them or they will get robbed, i can go buy a $75 phone and spend $300 on the first 6 months phone bill and then install a bitcoin wallet onto the phone for them and use the leftover $625.00 on bitcoin for that same wallet and simply give them that phone without anyone being the wiser and said person will be able to live a far better life and have a chance to keep it that way for the long run. That is a more valuable benefit from using bitcoin, in my opinion, then transaction fees being cheaper.

One can't predict the future. If Bitcoin is not used for remittance because of it's price the demand will likely to go down, no demand... the price will bound to go down.
But I like your question. What do we want from Bitcoin?

Do we want a stable currency or an ever appreciating in value asset?

Could there be an equilibrium?

Bitcoin has changed a lot in the past few months from a micro transaction platform we have reached to a point we are not able to do that anymore simply because of the increasing fees and the delay in transaction time and these issues have completely alienated gamers who like to purchase a thing or two with bitcoin.

It seems to me that one particular characteristic is quite persistent - autonomy. Being independent of traditional institutional control the community values the most. It is an interesting point. So it's a safe haven of the 21st century this is where it's likely to derive its value. However, how stable is it? What could impact it?

Re: Why should people use Bitcoin?
December 08, 2015, 05:52:20 PM
Reply with quote  #3
Some good reasons why you use bitcoin.

1. It is fast. Transactions are instantaneous and confirmation times are usually done withing 10 minutes.
2. It is cheap to transfer any amount of money anywhere. Fees are insignificant at this point.
3. Your bitcoin are your alone, they can't be blocked by bank, IRS or any institutions.
4. There are no charge backs.

This is from another thread... from Dec 2015. Only 2 of the pints are still true.

to me i still do not think that it is expensive if you are dong shopping for a good amount of money. then its transaction fee is not such a big problem and that problems can be solve with the passage of time.

Those are great points and I agree. I just think it is too soon to tell. It will go throuhg more iterations and more people will catch on over time. ONly time will tell. But today its worth billions.

It's the fucking chinese scum, they are rising fees on purpose to make more profits like ants

BU is not the enemy of bitcoin, it's just an altcoins and it takes advantage of the power of bitcoin development. However, it did not get people's consent and it was excluded.

This is the type of kinda  religion that I'm seeing all around the Bitcoin community, people are all around attacking each other without using arguments, logic or anything else. Its really weird. Some people created a cult about Bitcoin, its kinda sad.

it is useful to provide a freedom of trading, saving, technological development, etc. but bitcoin is often too high of fees, that's why we have altcoins. although bitcoin is useless such as cash payment, it is very important towards liberty of most of the human rights i think.

You dont have to necessarily pay those high fees it's only an option to make it faster in case you're in a hurry and need your money quickly.
Also when the price of bitcoin was low the fees were also low and when it's high the fees also increase and now bitcoin is worth billions.
The best time to buy bitcoin was two years ago, the scond best time is now.

Just because transaction fees go up, you say bitcoin is useless? :D
I myself have never thought about transaction fees in every transaction I make, while there is still a wallet that provides no fees in the withdrawal, take advantage of that. I think don't need to bother with transaction fees, and bitcoin very useful. :D

Lol the fee can be as big or small as you want. This is a non issue if you're sending money to someone who can wait a few days and you want to cheap out in the fee.

bitcoin is still useful because it has features in addition to side of transactions that make it easy for users. just because 1 missing feature doesn't mean other features are also dead and many gambling sites or ico investments through bitcoin it shows that bitcoin is still useful.

If you feel like bitcoin is useless, just send me your bitcoins and I will agree with you.   Having this kind of argument and still holding bitcoin is annoying.  And besides why are you still here in the forum if you feel that Bitcoin is useless?  Most people who do feel that bitcoin does not do them good just quit and get out of this forum unless you are trying to do some convincing and make people sell their bitcoin at a cheaper price.

You have to accept that the cost of doing business has increased and miners need to cope with the ever growing demand, i feel rising costs are also good to prevent network spam .

Believe is or Bitcoin use is popular among gamblers and traders and i have seen the trend slow down, it might be expensive but all whats needed is a little adjustment.

FYI Bitcoin is still a young currency to be declared useless with a lot of potential to change financial system around the world.

If it is useless how could it get such an increased adoption as well acceptance from users around the globe. Also this could have went out of usage as most other digital currencies. Countries too won't officially support bitcoin acceptance if it has negative impacts or not a good thing for development.

I don't think it is useless but the fee is a bit high for the moment, but it still a good investment and there are still many usage especially for gambling purpose and I still like the anonymous feature from bitcoin to do transaction, so bitcoin still useful for me

I beg to differ with OP, on the contrary Bitcoin is very useful now than ever. It's been so in demand and since countries and banks have started adopting it tells the whole positive story. The fees were never made to be constant and so it will adjust as and when Bitcoin gains more value or devalue. This is the reason why I don't agree with the OP to call it useless.

because the market don't care about the fee, the value you are seeing on the market is based on trading on exchange, which don't need to move any bitcoin, they are always there on the exchange and changed for fiat or changed back to bitcoin all the time

therefore it doesn't matter what fee there is they don't need to move their bitcoin too much, the fee will onyl prevent the so called average joe to use bitcoin, in the future if nop fix will be reached

I tell essentially the same all the time

And many traders still move their coins in and out of exchanges, though they certainly prefer not to use the blockchain and thus not to depend on miners and how soon, or rather late, their transactions are going to be confirmed. Whenever there is a possibility I, for one, prefer to use payment vouchers which are close to instant and pretty cheap (at times, you even get paid some dust for using a specific payment channel)

for me it is not useless and bitcoin now is proven its function in digital world and used in every country
bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are now known globally and now increasingly is value.

Every time i end up using Bitcoin, i am dissapointed. If you dont put a fee of at least 60 cents, it takes like forever. This is outrageous! If i pay from my bank with wire payment, the fee is 42 cents up to something like 10k$ ! But when i send Bitcoins, i pay a 60 cent fee on a $20 payment.
This is way too much.
But if you send a fee of like 20 cents, which is still a rather high fee, when paying small amounts, the transaction takes forever and you are left in fear of the transaction never confirming. Sure, the more you send the cheaper (in percents) the fee gets.

But other than the high fee, it works great! I really like to use it as a payment option.

I will just go with wallet exchanges. We pay the same and yet they make it faster rather than blockchain.
I dont know what is wrong with the blockchain but it is seems like there are a lot more transactions that are being made there.
Coinbase does have a faster one with a 59k sats fee.
It is okay for me if everything will be done smoothly.
The only problem is country restrictions and unsupported ones.

I don't quite understand what you refer to here

Interwallet transactions are free and they are instant because the actual coins don't move anywhere. The web wallet internal accounting has nothing to do with the blockchain. When you pay the fee, a transaction from a Coinbase wallet (or any other wallet, for that matter) hits the blockchain in the usual way, i.e. it gets confirmed by the miners as any other transaction. So there is no way how it could be faster (provided all other things, e.g. transaction fee, remain the same, of course)

actually this is the competition to confirm the Bitcoin transaction speedly, usually the most of the Bitcoin paying high fee for the fast confirmation .
So here if you want confirm  your transaction of Bitcoins fast then you also need to enter in this competition of a paying high fees .
And secondly hair is nothing bad like to pay fee about $1 or more because Everything depends upon the number of inputs of the transaction and their outputs of the transaction for the particular amount of the Bitcoins that we want transfer from one wallet to another one.
Here I am saying about 0.00025 BTC( less than 1$) for the better confirmation and I am also getting the same and Never Getting disappointment with this amount of fee , so always pay the high fees during the transaction.

In my own view Bitcoin is not useless. I've decided to step up on this field because my mom is the only one supporting me. I used to work on construction and storage rooms and having sideline world on a fast food chain. Then a friend of mine told me that he is earning online through Bitcoin , that's why I decided to be here.

It's not useless to people who make Bitcoin as a sideline works especially students. Just being online and having a good internet connection is enough. Bitcoin help many people like in the third world countries. It maybe useless to the legal world money system but it's not useless to someone who desperately need money in everyday lives.

For me, I guess bitcoin will never be useless but will come to more and more progress because as we can see despite of having high transaction fees the volume of users still increasing and more daily it is because of its good feature and it will.never be beaten just because of having high transaction fees. It is our choice to choose if we put high or low fee but then consequence for that will follow, like putting low or zero fee leads to slow transaction but if you put higher fee you can receive it in a moment after sending it.

You can call Bitcoin useless if it doesn't have any value but since Bitcoin has been valuable even at this moment and tomorrow and the next day the value of Bitcoin is still present though the rising unconfirmed transaction pushed the users to spend more with the fee but it is a choice actually if you are in need of that money then you ought to pay a higher fee to receive it faster but if not then you can just wait for it.

Neither bitcoin is useless now nor it will be in future as it holds a great value which makes it unique from other currencies and most of the people who knows bitcoins are making good money from it and when it comes to money it can never be useless but only will help you in different ways.

i agree, it will not become useless just because of high fees. someday it will get low because of many bitcoin users who are pushing to make the fees low for a better and more transactions.

How can you ridicule or rundown Bitcoin as useless because there's increase in transaction fees. I thought increase in transaction fees is directly proportional to increase in Bitcoin value or prices so why badmouth it in the first place? It is never useless and has never been to some of us.

Yeah bitcoin is currently failing as a currency, however for remittances it is still cheap. 1$ for a remittance is cheaper than you will find anywhere else, especially for cross border remittances. And bitcoins price has always been based on speculation, its worth what its worth because people are willing to pay that price, not because they are buying anything tangible.

The company to look to when it comes to actual usage is Bitpay. And by the sounds of it they're busier than ever. It does look like they're moving more into B2B type stuff than retail. If you compare the options for businesses looking for international transfers Bitcoin would still be the best option if fees were $30-40. I hope it doesn't get to that stage though.

Yes, high fees right now is just a problem in bitcoin but when it solved i am sure that naby people will say that its not useless instead they are going to say that bitcoin is very useful. Time will come that high fees will turn in to low.

Bitcoin will not be useless because of its reputation that is already built and also a lot of people using bitcoin and they believe to the things that bitcoin can do like being widely accepted and also use as a daily basis currency. Bitcoin is very useful in a lot of ways like being a source of income, savings and also investment at the same time.

Bitcoin is no longer cheap since the fees per transaction have rose up to three dollars (3 $). But it does not mean that bitcoin is useless it is still useful. Another factor causing the fees to rise up is the increased in value and the increased in the blockchain traffic. Nevertheless we can see bitcoin going up in value and let us just make bigger transactions if small transactions has also large fees the same with huge transactions.

Fees are indeed above $1 if you want your transaction to get confirmed easily but don't forget that BTC's price is sky high right now. The $1 fee is still cheap if you will compare it to BTC's price as of the moment. It is not officially dead and will not be. People recognizes BTC as a real currency now and it is being adopted by many people day by day. Also, I'm always willing to pay high fees because at least, I have full control on my money (in BTC) compared to what I have in a centralized banking system. 

For me, Bitcoin is very useful. I can use it in every transactions and payment. This is one of the best things I've ever known in bitcoin. There are no transaction fees and no need to give your real name. In bitcoin transactions, banks are not involved. Bitcoin solely stands on its own.

Fees are not the same thing that makes people not using bitcoin, fees are always proportional to the value, so do not complain about it. However, bitcoin needs changes to suit the needs of the user. At present, transactions need to be processed faster.

I agree with you fees was never a problem because everyone knows that the miner's expenses are going high as the price of bitcoin goes high and the difficult level is also going high. now only matters is the confirmation of transaction which is taking very long time even when high fees is paid. I have sent the bitcoins to the exchange to sell my bitcoins with Transaction fees of 99.265 sat/byte even then it is more then 24 hrs and still not got confirmed , then think what will happen when a merchant sells the goods and if it takes such long time then how will he have faith on bitcoin if the transaction got cancel then he will be in loss as the buyer have purchased the product and gone.

Exactly once. An intelligent thought is very helpful to be able to get a good profit. Because of the various facets of the overall total of bitcoin surely bad enough, because it is the most important thing for a technology is the introduction or a crowd of people. for if more and more used by people the many advantages and developed technology. Unlike the bitcoin, where many people use it because doing an investment
 

I know that the transaction rate has increased but you can also see that still the rate is very lower compared to all other payment processors where you will pay more than 3 or 4 dollars for a smaller amount while for bitcoin transaction you will need to pay around one dollar for a huge amount of money even for international transactions.

Satoshi was a genius and visionary, way beyond our level of comprehension, but he wasn't a clairvoyant.
He could only speculate, hope and expect what path bitcoin will follow. It's true he aimed to create p2p currency and payment method.
But I am sure that after 7 years of bitcoin existence, evolving and testing he would change his mind about many things: including scaling solution or bitcoin main purpose.

It is not useless at all, you can invest it in many place or hold it for investing purposes.
You can also simply pay with it, so it is very useful!

Oh my god... An asset with almost 30 billion dollars and you're asking whether or not it's useless.  ???

False, for the n time.. there is no link between the tx fee and the price of bitcoin.
Bitcoin could reach 100k but if there are no transactions or under 200k /day you could still send payments with 1 satoshi per kb.(and get confirmed)

Also, even if the price drops back to 1000 but we experience 10x more transactions get ready for fees up to 3$ for input ;).

The simple explanation is, bitcoin is valued because people are ready to accept it as an exchange for good(like any other fiat currency). So as along as that stays in place and people accept bitcoin, no matter how much the fees is, bitcoin will have value and be used. And 1$ fees is not that big a deal, the avg fees has become 1$ right now only because of rise in BTC's price but in BTC terms it's the same 180sat/byte which is not too much.

I dont think there is any credibility in this thread. The whole cryptocurrencies world is standing on BTC and without it, there will be nothing. If you compare the price of BTC then the fees are nothing. Look at the impact BTC is doing on the planet. It is necessary for system to continue.

It not useless and not dieing at all its normal for the price to go up and down in many times but ee all since the bitcoin success in passing years and become the most successful cryptocurrency we cant expect it to die easily.

Bitcoin is still useful. We just need to be smarter about spending it. Use purse.io to save money. Easily mitigates that transaction fee. Just a thkught!!

Yeah I think useless is the wrong term for what he was trying to express, I guess you could say its becoming irrelevant as a currency used for transactions but is still very useful as an asset.

Now that bitcoin has really taken over the world, it is not being used, acknowlegde and known to many users nowadays it is really not good that fees for transactions are raising high. Like where do this fees go. They promised small fees for every confirmation of any transaction. But yeah, even though this is happening bitcoin will still be known, and used.

Yeah, and still more so given that Bitcoin is nowhere near being worth 30 billion dollars (or even 20B dollars)


You are false and that got confirmed

Since you yourself mentioned transaction fees in dollar terms, it is as clear as day that the size of transaction fees is in linear dependence over Bitcoin price (provided all other things remain the same). I guess this is what the poster you replied to meant, i.e. transaction fees in fiat terms, just like you said yourself. After all, it was your claim that Bitcoin is there only because of fiat and people are ultimately interested only in fiat, not in Bitcoin. It kinda looks you should stick to your guns, shouldn't you?

What a surprise ... 4 lines on text.
Deisik the four liner.

How about you stick to your English manual cause "stick to your guns" doesn't mean what you think it does.
And if anything it means the exact opposite in this situation.

Or are you really encouraging me?
Go away (please) take a break, 4liners are too much for you.
 

I know perfectly well what the phrase means and when it is used (but you may want to finally find out)

It means that even if you are trying to troll (which is what you are doing here, the Witch will punish you), you should do that wisely. Otherwise, you'll be a ludicrous and despicable troll which doesn't know where his mouth is (think clown here). That means as well that you should remember what you had been saying at least yesterday if not before that, i.e. not to say things which are in direct "opposition" to what you claimed previously. In this case specifically, I remember how you were laying yourself out proving that people don't care about Bitcoin, that all they care for turns around fiat, and things like these. And now you defiantly forget all that you have been preaching for and against yourself. I hope this gets through somehow

What do you mean exactly? I cannot actually understand what did you say.
It is true that when you are transfering your bitcoins to somewhere else, you dont give up your identity to any kind of authorities or banks, but everybody in the world connected to the internet can see your transaction , so it is all about listing an person to specified address: which is an extremely hard task in most cases.

But you have said that there are no transaction fees for using blockchain, but I think I dont even have to mention that, because everybody interested in cryptocurrencies know that bitcoin has something like "miner reward", which means that you pay some satoshis for getting transaction confirmed!

I guess with the current transaction fee, we should forget about bitcoin is for buying a cup of coffee, things are evolving and so is the problem with bitcoin scaling and transaction fee.  But even if this problems are around, I do not think bitcoin is useless.  There is always an alternative use for Bitcoin.  Before the scaling is fixed, I think it is better to use bitcoin as store of value. 

Bitcoin is useless for those who are not aware about bitcoins or who don't know how to make money out of it in the best possible ways and people who are aware about bitcoins are making good and enough money from it on regular basis and will never find it useless.

I do agreed,  that most people of the bitcoin community they forgot what decentralization what it really means,  we shouldn't forget that we are in full control of our own coin we hold. Therefore,  for me it doesn't matter if the fees for every transaction is high for what important is it confirm and sent to our wallet, and I don't think that it will be useless,of course not, it still will always be useful,

Yes its all about decentralization. "We" can change the fee structure if needed. It will take a lot more than high fees to make bitcoin irrelevant.

to me in present time  i think bitcoin is one of the most popular currency of the world. and therefore i do not think that there is not a single reason to consider bitcoin as useless.  i think bitcoin is becoming more and more useful because still people are entering in the field of bitcoin and even investing their bitcoin here and therefore they are  making bitcoin most popular currency of the world.

You are right as for almost all of the people who have adopted bitcoin it is useful currency. They are praising this currency and for their needs they use only this currency. It is providing more convenience for trade, transactions and online shopping etc.

And bitcoin is simply useless to those who sold it at lower price and they can't move on with that move they did. Bitcoin will never be worthless right now, come to think of it a crypto coin that has a value now of $1,700 and there's a bigger chance of it to fluctuate more. These people just want to spread FUD and want to scare people.

yes bitcoin s not useless, it is one of the most strongest currency of the the online world. most of the people are now using for online purposes. peple are now doing shopping using bitcoin. they use it for online shopping as well in some places they are also using bitcoin in local shops, in fact bitcoin is the money and it can be use as fiat currency without changing it in to local currency.

Wow stop pushing yourself, you might enrage your sig overlord by writing 6 liners of nothing

Take this 5 line stats

July 2013       btc price  ~90    fee ~ 8 cents
January 2014 btc price   ~800  fee ~ 20 cents
July 2015      btc price   ~250  fee ~ 3 cents  wtf???  the fee is lower than when bitcoin was at 90$?  deisik is wrong again... holy shit...
January 2016  btc price  ~450  fee ~ 8 cents  what???
January 2017  btc price  ~800  fee ~ 40 cents  what again?

Let's see pussycat do you have the balls to reply in  less than 4 lines?
Or will your master send you to the vet?

day by day transaction of bitcoin take a very long time. And that is very much felt in the present moment. Takes more than 1 hour.

If you are an active type of person which do actively make bitcoin transactions now and then you will surely feel the pain on making some transfers because fees will really hurt up your pocket but if you do make transfer on few times high tx fee wont hurt too much and shouldn't really be bother and saying bitcoin is useless.If you don't like to spend more fee then better not to make transaction at all.

Agreed, and I support bitcoin decentralization, it will solve many issues for bitcoin and create a stable pathway, otherwise people will stop using it.

Bitcoin decentralization can not compare to other crypto but Bitcoin is the first leader in the cryptocurrency world. The more we use it the more understand about how the ccrypto work.

Useful for what?

Let me ask another question.

What makes a currency useful?

According to me bitcoin have been a game changer for me as it is only source of income for me and i sell my bitcoins when it is necessary or otherwise it is totally stored in the wallet.
Bitcoin is useless not at all, as it does not involves bank at all or does it involves any politics.

Because we are looking at it with the price of USD not with bitcoin.
If you really think about it 50-100k satoshi is not even 1 percent of bitcoin.
How do they do it with WU and other money transfer? 10 percent or maybe 15?
It grew in value that is why we are looking that way. But back then 50k satoshi is just dust even now when you stop converting.

I actually agree on this, it is our choice on how much fee are we going to put on, actually it is by our choice if we are willing to wait or someone who will receive the coin, then it is okay just to give small fee but then patience is fully needed especially now that we have volume of transactions, but if not we can put high fee to receive coin instantly.

Your both have a good point and i think the transaction speed is depends on the fee and the transaction size but the problem when we are sending bitcoin to another wallet we do not know how much we should the fee because there is no tool for estimation.. honestly on electrum i am not satisfied with the dynamic fee because its set at 0.001 that honestly more than $1 even you are transact a small amount of bitcoin you are paying a high fee even the transaction size is low..
This is still not solve issue..

A mangy dog always returns to its vomit


Basically, currency allows you to separate in time two otherwise inseparable events (read one event), namely, an exchange of goods. What would be a one event in a barter deal turns out to be two essentially independent events in the exchange of goods mediated by a currency. This offers you a possibility to exchange virtually anything for anything else (which is not the case with barter), that's why currency is useful

Just in case, Bitcoin is not a currency, for the most part, as of yet and so far

A useless currency will not be used by everyone, so bitcoin is a very useful money for everyone, it has a great influence on the economic strength of some countries.

I would like to ask on what country you are referring too? I didn't heard that bitcoin does give big impact or influence on economic strength on a certain country believing that bitcoin isn't still accepted by most countries.We cant say such thing as of now but talking about bitcoin is useless then I would really contradict onto that statement since bitcoin do really helps a lot on many things and for sure most users of it knows about what I suppose to mean.

No what this means is that bitcoin is no longer useful for small transactions, since bitcoin fee depend on the size of the transaction and not in the amount you are sending then this means that for bitcoin to be the best choice when it comes to transaction then you need to use it to send bigger amounts of money.

The reputation of Bitcoin through the years is still depends on how people view this cryptocurrency. But as we can now see, some countries are supporting it's usage and that's mean BTC is building up it's reputation in a large scale. The decent income that it can give to people are on par on the real world works.


No matter how good you are, you alone cannat change this world. Many of the geniuses in the past including Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, max well can't comprehend what's lies ahead. They just accumulate and do what's best possible in the situation in that particular place, time, and technology. You can't have it all, clairvoyant means that it you predict the future and even if you have that clairvoyant ability you can't predict the very hearts of people. Maybe he does even expect that BTC can survive up to these long. He is just enjoying the scenery of the ride of the train that destiny is still unknown.

Useful to you of course. You are the one who is managing your account here in this forum where you are earning bitcoin, and obviously you are the one who are getting benefited on it, so how come that you are asking "Useful for what?", lol, this is very ridiculous. If you are going to be like that, or maybe you are just trolling people here, why not just quit bitcoin, get back here again using a newbie account and I would accept you asking the same question, because I will think that you are really just a newbie so asking a question like that is acceptable.

I just can't imagine that someone here in this forum is asking something like that, Really? We all know how bitcoin is helpful to us, we don't need to be dumb like we didn't know anything about it.

Bitcoin is not a smart choice for small transactions because you will not be happy for the transaction fee for every small transaction that you will do. Bitcoin is fast for every transaction but the fee is high and it is only a wise decision for you if you will make bigger amount of money in every kind of transaction.

I couldn't agree more. Others would say that it is useless for they haven't experienced yet. Actually, they have to try first and see it for themselves and once that they've overcome it, they might see the reality that it is by far useful. For instance, my brother has been a member for almost a year using bitcoin and it is very useful to him because of financial crisis, sometimes when he has to borrow some money whenever he needs it urgently for an emergency purpose for his own family. It helps him most of the time and it saves him if the salary is delay or he's on a tight budget. I strongly believe that bitcoin is useful.

Useless are you insane or just bought bitcoin at a high orice and sold at a low price and that's the reason why you are pissed with bitcoin. Bitcoin has successfully passed so many stages like crossing the price of gold , increasing like 200% per year and now that it is being recognised worldwide you saying it useless?

Bitcoin is still used and will be used in the future also for transactions.
And that's the reason that makes bitcoin useful

It's not a lie, it's evidence to the present bitcoin, we've paid very low fees, but as the bitcoin price goes up, the charge goes up too.

Bitcoin is indeed useless. I sold my stash after holding on for a long time. Don't want to be to greedy at the moment because the limited extra bucks to be made before the big bubble burst is just not worth the risk anymore. The titanic will sink no matter what people will tell. There is a lot of noise by people wanting to squeeze that extra $ out of their investment, but in the end the bubble pops. So I've chosen to exit, before the stampede (which will cause a technical crash on itself) Bitcoin = speculation (and part religion), for practical use you need to look at the coins 2.0.

Why useless? It is true that the bitcoin fee will increase with its price. But I think, in other respects, bitcoin benefits us.

Bitcoin is definitely not useless as OP claims it to be; yes, the fees are getting really high but I'm confident there will be a change in the way transactions work very soon (which hopefully will drop the mad fees)

Do you know what is the cost of using a VISA card or paying with a cheque ? Do you think it's free, nope, and guess who pay the cost, your bank? nope it's the store and it's you. It is called interchange fees... With an average of 0.5-0.8% per transaction, it means about 10-15$ for an item costing 2500$, while bitcoin will cost you let's say 0.001BTC ($2.5)
Can you pay an item costing 1000$ in a single transaction with a VISA, nope, with Bitcoin yes you can pay with a single one

Even with the fees getting really high, bitcoin is not useless, if it is, many people must have sold their bitcoins and used another crypto currency. There are other things that bitcoin is being useful, investment, many people buy bitcoin or earn them, then use some of it and mostly store them and wait for a good price to use them or maybe sell them.

Indeed it is useless for you now

Since useless basically means of no use, and Bitcoin is of no use to you after you have already sold all your coins. Moreover, if Bitcoin continues to surge and consistently break ATH's as it has been doing since the beginning of this year, it will be of even less use to you, because all what will be left to you is watch how Bitcoin climbs higher and higher. It is not that Bitcoin is useless on its own, it is more your never realized profits (especially those which you won't earn) that will make it so. Anyway, the shills' club seems to be overcrowded already by now, so you may have to just stick around here for the time being

Three hundred thousand confirmed Bitcoin transactions per day and growing. That says it all.

Well, using bitcoin only as a payment processor, the current fees are still more convenient for me than other electronic payment processors. Neteller charges me about 2% for each transaction, and a similar amount for Forex conversion. In PayPal the amounts are usually even higher.

It is true the the current fees do not represent the best or worlds for the bitcoin economy, there being so many altcoins handling much lower fees for each transaction out there, but I also hope that something can be done to improve this issue yet.

Absolutely correct, Bitcoin is increasing in investment on a daily basis and so it is not on the way at all to become useless but rather people are developing new ways of using it and integrating it into their businesses.

yes bitcoin is really a very useful currency, it will continue to survive for long long time because still people are giving preference to bitcoin and I am sure that very soon the users of bitcoin will increase more  in future, therefore bitcoin is become more useful from time to time. the users of bitcoin will spread out through out the world and will make bitcoin more and more stronger.

A virtual coin that is valued $2,490 is officially dead. Yes it is officially dead for those people that are suffering regret upon selling their bitcoins too early. It's not useless and instead it is useful to all of us. You just need to know how to use it properly and if you want to have a better way of living, just learn how to become patient and hold it.

Oef...resembles much like an response to an attack on the church of bitcoin. Don't become overly religious about the bitcoin. A virtual something which value is propped up by the herd. The so called virtual gold. It's a fantasy. It once was a dream, about decentralized whatever for the people....it has become useless, nothing else than for fun and profit. Let's see for how long the music keeps playing on a sinking titanic. Then make room for ideas that really add something of value to the world, something with a better future. Such a transition is always hard for vested powers. I totally understand that all will be done to keep the boat afloat with message like "we go to the 10.000. Delusion is the last part of the game

Well said.Be patient and learn to wait for the right time if you want to earn more because for sure bitcoin increases its value  every passing day.But somehow,we can blame others to be doing like this.In the end,it's their choice  and they're responsible for any consequences it may bring.

Lol i can't believe i see someone who said bitcoin is useless, only because the transaction fee is high?
Bitcoin sure, is useful for me. It really help me to earn more money quite easily. And i don't really mind with the transaction fee because i rarely use bitcoin to buy something, i prefer keeping them.
Yes it's true that bitcoin is quite much about speculation, but what's for sure the price has been increasing until now, and it actually profitable to keep your bitcoin and sell that later.
If you complained about the fee, why not try to save your bitcoin like me? Or learn other way to use bitcoin that may give you even more money so you won't even complain about it anymore because you're rich already.

Bitcoin is not useless it is useful because by the help of this I earn another income, I buy what I want and it is easy to earn than if you are employee, due to you can earn Bitcoin every not like if you are employee you earn every 15-30 of the month.

Just because experiencing a normal problem in bitcoin you will say that it is useless and dead? where's the faith in bitcoin?

We need to understand as the difficulty increases, miners need to adjust the fee and as well with the price increase scenario.

We are computing base on the price of bitcoin and not with the quantity of bitcoin which is being set by them as fee.

I agree.Bitcoin has become our buddy the moment we started it.So if any normal problem  arise,is it proper to just put bitcoin as a dead investment and useless?I supposed we should be sympathetic instead.Sympathetic in the sense that we should understand its rising and depreciating value in some times.Bitcoin is not that perfect to be consistently growing.It may have also its ups and downs.

Bitcoin is very useful, maybe you do not understand bitcoin so call it useless. If you understand bitcoin you will never say bitcoin is useless. Many uses of bitcoin, for some people bitcoin saves them from poverty and makes their families live worthily

Do you think if someone made a profit from bitcoin and then they say bitcoin is useless? It is ridiculous, only those who do not use the new bitcoin think it's useless.

Thats was just a normal thingbi guess bitcoin is increasing rapidly so the transaction fee will also increases and that was really normal in the cryptocurrency i guess so maybe bitcoin is not useless we already using it in many things and also using it to make a great profit or income.

And he is complaining with the fee that is really changing because of the price fluctuation. I understand his complain but we can do something about it by adjusting the fees. But if you will set the fee lower expect the confirmation will take it longer. So the higher the fee, the faster confirmation.

Well here is where the problem lies, what if the current impasse between segwit and BU or bigger blocks doesn't lead to a real solution. In this scenario if bitcoin keeps rising in price so will the transaction fees and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to above $10 per transaction, something which would ruin 90%+ of the current usage of bitcoin.

It is supposed to hasten the confirmation time so higher fees is not needed anymore. But you are right, there is still a possibility that it is not the solution and high fees may come back. We have to trust the devs to find a new solution if these ones won't work.

The bitcoin?These bitcoin is very usable and has a big purpose in our economy and has a very big use to our world.Many of people knows bitcoin didnt want to find about it.So for us it is very usable but for the others didnt know it is useless

You seem to have a bunch of replies ready

I'm curious if anyone sees how little my post has to do with what can be considered as "a response to an attack on the church of Bitcoin". I don't know about you, I don't know about fun, but profits do matter a lot to me personally. Maybe, you are a multimillionaire (though I doubt), so you could hypothetically claim that profits mean nothing to you. But that would be even more suspicious since millionaires know a lot and care a lot about profits. And it is certainly not the case for the majority of players here

To me, bitcoin is very usefull, usefull for everything, be it fast and secure transactions, easy to open accounts in exchangers and many more advantages, the existence of this forum I think is used to find many more good that can be obtained from bitcoin

There is already a lot of debating going on about this topic.

I believe that bitcoin still has a lot of usages. Global money remittance is still cheaper with bitcoin than with international bank transfers, Western Union or Moneygram which all take a cut off your transaction. Bitcoin takes a flat fee.

This means that if you are transacting big amounts, bitcoin is still a good thing to use. I forgot to mention also that bitcoin could be the only form of free market currency some people are entitled to hold in certain countries.

To the majority of people who knows about bitcoin there answer will be bitcoin is useful, this will not only help us make money
but it could also be use for a faster transaction. I gamble with bitcoin and it's useful to me as it is a means for me to be entertain.

Even bitcoin with a high fees or slow to confirm the transaction bitcoin is still useful. As this is the most use as the global digital online money. With its easy to use, easy to access and easy to manage most use is the bitcoin.

For international transactions the fees is still very fine. If you will send your money to any other country of the world through bank or any other payment way like western union then you will pay high fees than bitcoin.

How is Bitcoin useless? People are using it every single day and they aren't complaining. The transaction costs are also over 1 dollar and Bitcoin is definitely not dead. Just look at the price and you will see that.

You can say that Bitcoin is useless if it has loss its value. Bitcoin has been abundantly used throughout the world with many users which can be reflected as how high the price, demand, and volume. The transaction fee might be high and not suitable for micro-transactions but still Bitcoin is used by many. Though we can always used an alternative to send money then store it in Bitcoin.

For some services it is ok and they are agree to pay that fees for their transactions but for some services for which we do not pay a high amount for example for recharging our mobile it is a very high fees.

At this stage I don't think that bitcoin is useless because the transaction cost is still less than that of other fiat services. I am worried about the situation after 5 or 10 years if we didn't find any solution for this issue. There are many businesses out there who are willing to use bitcoins for their fund transfer processes but since the fees are increasing, they are skeptical about it. At this moment the fees are not much higher but unless we find any viable solution, I don't think the situation will remain the same.

Stop complaining already. Scaling solution is upon us, just wait patiently 3 more moths to see what it will bring.
It is said that almost 80% of the Bitcoin hashrate support SegWit and 2MB blocks, UASF will happen in August.
It is hard to speculate how protocol upgrade will lower transaction fees exactly, but they should be significantly cheaper.

Cheap remittance of money globally is still here. I wouldn't mind paying $1 for a $50,000 transaction to be sent half way across the globe that would have otherwise resulted in a $500 or probably even more fee.

It is a hassle to see that bitcoin fees are going up every day, and that even Coinbase has to put a fee on their customers because they cannot afford to process so many microtranscations every day.

If you really want microtransactions, use dogecoin for now. When bitcoin scales everything will be back to normal/at least close to normal low fees that we were used to paying. Bitcoin is definitely not useless though, otherwise nobody would be on this forum. And it's got a bright future. Speculation isn't everything, Japan and Australia legalized bitcoin just a few weeks ago.

Confirmation seems to be an issue with the bitcoin network. This too is a solvable problem, but some sort of blocksize and other scaling need this has been kept as it is. When the usage increases further a final decision will be made to make a solution. These days the shopping too has got avoided just because of confirmation delay, for which we cannot indicate it as an useles.

yes that issue can be solve, and people are not going to shop not because of the conformation issues, but very one is in investment mood and therefoe they are gong to hold their bitcoin for future. they are confident that the price of bitcoin is going to increase more in near future therefore they are not going to spend their bitcoin or to invest it anywhere else.s they want their bitcoin to hold for a good time and therefore then are not even ready to invest in any other altcoin.

I really do not like the fact that the problem of long transactions has not been solved until now. This makes it hard for some people to use bitcoin. I'm bothering, as soon as this problem is resolved, many stores will accept this payment system

It's fine to me even if I will pay the fee for my transaction higher just for it to be confirmed. Well there's no more cheap thing in this world and even in bitcoin that is known for anonymity and cheap fee well needs to be adjusted the way it is. And don't say that bitcoin is useless as your title, instead change it to fee related title.

The problem here, I think is not the transaction but the way you paid the miners to confirm your transaction, as we all know, there are right fees to confirm your transaction, we just need to follow that fees or else we will be waiting for our transaction for weeks, the most for months.

Don't be scared, it will end as soon when we will hard fork bitcoin. Ethereum and litecoin was hardforked easily because they has low amount of users. Bitcoin is hard to hardfork as of computational power. SegWit is horrible way to solve it.

Yes exactly I agree your point of high transaction fees because of that you can check recent ect grow in last 2 months if bitcoin devs not solve the issue then altcoins will make the move and beat bitcoin one day for sure . But even if you want send money in very less timeline within an hour from one country to another then bitcoin only the option even though fees is bit high

I think high transaction fees are not a reason to call bitcoin is useless. Transaction fees from the past until now are the same, nothing has changed. Indeed increases if we measure with the dollar but if we measure with bitcoin will remain the same. Bitcoin gives us a lot of benefits and uses, even many who become rich with bitcoin

Well Bitcoin is losing one of his best features (the lowest fees) as the fee's value increased recently for many reasons. But we can't say that Bitcoin is useless because only this reason. Bitcoin still valuable and having very strong potential

The increase in transaction costs is the effect of rising bitcoin prices and I think that's something normal and bitcoin still useful to me, if bitcoin prices go up then transaction costs go up and vice versa if bitcoin price down transaction costs down I think it will be fine and not a major issue to be debated.

Yeah nothing else needed that  debate as what we see now still bitcoin community or still many of peoples now using bitcoin and it's a reflect of it in our blockchain that having many transactions in a day thay we can sustain it becuase of what nitcoin price rise snd effect our blockchain.

The high transaction fees is now trending in everywhere and many complain threads are born in these weeks. No doubt, it really make bitcoin useless but not at all. It's just affecting​ to small (micro)transactions, and for the big one it is no problem.

No bitcoin is definitely not useless. Bitcoin is a very useful thing, through bitcoin we can earn money as much as we can. If we are working hard to answer surveys and everything we can earn a lot of money through bitcoin so it is not useless.

Certainly!  It never and never ever will it become useless.  All of us here were earning a good money through bitcoin.  All of us here have the same goals which became possible all because of bitcoins.  So there never came a time that it was useless.  It is fun to have a sideline job and earn just like what regular jobs would pay you.

No , the fees have increased in terms of satoshis also not just usd..


No it is no related to the price of btc it's related to the amount of transactions made every day
As I was telling a lost cause about this earlier

July 2013        btc price     ~90    fee ~  8 cents
January 2014  btc price   ~800    fee ~ 20 cents
July 2015        btc price   ~250    fee ~  3 cents  
January 2016  btc price   ~450    fee ~  8 cents  
January 2017  btc price   ~800    fee ~ 40 cents

Bitcoin has lost this advantage after its price crossed the 1,000 dollars per coin level

Or even before that. But this would still be irrelevant and inconsequential in any case. How come? Simply because there are quite a few other coins which are cheaper (say, Litecoin) and a lot cheaper (say, Doge) in terms of transaction fees. But as I said, it doesn't matter since most Bitcoin transactions are still made in-house. I refer to web wallets transactions (within the same wallet, obviously) and transactions that take place at exchanges (famous "buy low, sell high"). And you can use exchange vouchers to send bitcoins between exchanges completely bypassing the blockchain without paying any fees at all

It is really trending compare to the past transactions that we are making. People tend to send bitcoin without fees but now we are shouldering it every time we will send someone an amount that he needs. We are forced to pay the fee even they are just recommending unlike before, that it's totally free.

Uh, here is a memo from Satoshi Nakamoto in Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System in the intro problem statement describing how (in traditional internet payment) mediation increases transactions costs and limits the practicality of small transactions.  



Decentralization specifically means that there is no central authority that controls the money or rules a around it -- for transactions nodes instead of a central authority to handle transactions with an incentive of fees.  But considering that Satoshi was talking about "mediation increasing transaction costs" and "cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions" on the internet, I am sure he did not intend the incentive of these small transactions in bitcoin to be larger than that of traditional internet payment mechanisms.



Bitcoin was not intended as a settlement system for only large payments, it was designed as a  Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System for even very small payments.   Problem is centralization has occurred with the Chinese miners and they will fight any changes that may cut down the fees

I am personally have been using bitcoin for quit some time and it hurts me to say that throught out the recent transactions fees getting higher i have been really disapointed and thought seriously about quitting it because what is the point of using it when you have to pay a lot of fees in order to get your transction faster but you still get it after hours

People today when it comes to fees are complaining that much. And we need to bear to our minds that if you don't want fees, just set it to the lowest that you can afford.

And it's why there are some upgrades that is going to happen and there will be an event on August 1.

Just don't think it's that useless or something like that, bitcoin is the best.

yes bitcoin is not useless, bitcoin is created on the name of currency but currently as the number of bitcoin users are not great in number therefore they are using it for investment and trading purpsoes and they are in fact makin good profit from  trading and investment in bitcoin. I am hopeful that very soon the number of bitcoin users will increase and then we will be alble to use bitcoin for the purpose for which it has been creasted.

I know your feelings, bro. But we have to admit the true that bitcoin is not as good as we think and the dev team does not try their best to improve Bitcoin. It will take a lot of effort and time for bitcoin to become better than it is right now

The blame can't fall squarely on the dev team as there are other parties involved here. The miners are another group that have their own interests they are protecting. I don't mind the disagreements for as long as it is helping bitcoin move forward, but if it keeps bitcoin to face more problems, then something must be done to right these wrongs.

Yup this is what most of the mates are talking about now a day but let me remind you something. When it is discussed in the forum that the Bitcoin is becoming the digital gold then you have to accept these things with the Bitcoin transaction fees. I guess the bitcoin currently is too strong to be beaten by any of the competitor. The transaction fees are high due to the trust of the people and due to high demand of transactions.

So all those who think that fees are "high" should be mining. If they actually were high then you will be able to successfully compete with those miners. Fees go to the miner who will transfer bitcoins profitably. If the fee is to low then it wont be picked up by anyone. If the miner demands too much then another miner will take his/her business. That is the protocol. So if you think money is being left on the table then here is your chance to get it.

yes, bitcoin is useless right now because of huge fees

We have nothing against miners taking fees, we all know that mining bitcoin is becoming harder and harder and it is becoming more hardware demanding and requires a lot of power to mine a block, but all of this within reason i don't want to pay half the amount that i am going to send fees so that it gets picked up, paying high fees should only be for poeple who are in hurry who realy want thier transactions faster not for regular people who earn a small amount of bitcoin and struggle to move it around because of the fees.

The transition fee is a big issue and it is not advisable to make small transactions and daily payments otherwise you will be losing a lot to transaction fee. To my best of knowledge this fees are what miners feed on. And it is needed to sustain mining.

I agree but if you can use ViaBTC accelarator properly then even old low fees transaction are getting confirmed and i have done this recently and got confirmed in 2 hrs. So it is that you have to put your efforts little more for this benefit.

There is a mining reward for the miners and with the scaling issue and the number of transactions increased the fees also increased and miners are having a good time to choose which transactions to get through as they choose only high transaction fees as priority and yes they are enjoying their perks.

Small transactions will only eat your balance payment and it's not worth to do so. I have some micro earnings and I don't decide for it now as I know it will only goes to the miners fee. The fees today are considered high but it's because of the demand and if waiting is not an issue to you, just set it to minimum fee.

yes that is right that it  is only effecting the small transaction. but I think if we want people to use bitcoin for shopping even for small item, both online and in offline shops then the transaction fee must be lower enough, because the high transaction fee is really effecting the image of bitcoin, and people will not go to use bitcoin for small investment. which is too much important for the future of bitcoin.

For remittance purpose, bitcoin may not suitable with high fees should be paid especially for big amount that sent. But, for store of value, bitcoin still one of the best option. There are a lot to speculate about bitcoin, from the beginning until how bitcoin could rise because many adopters join to the bitcoin community. What kind of bitcoin experiment that you mean?

I have tried ViaBTC for two times for my two transactions but at that time I face the problem that the request limit is high and try again for next time. I think there is also a burden on that service and so the developers have to search for another solution.

That is from the form of payment perspective, but how about its attribute as a store of value? Bitcoin as at today is fast closing in on $3000, which is quite impressive and can be some palliative to cushion the trouble of having to pay high transaction fees. So Bitcoin cannot be said to be useless as many more people are being made rich these days by reason of Bitcoin unprecedented performance.

This is I notice a high fees every transactions but still the question is sometimes the transaction is too long to confirm. Despite of this bitcoin is still being used by every users and others still got earnings with bitcoin.

I think taking the time out to consider this solution so much bitcoin has brought compared to what we have with the payment system such as Paypal, we can now begin to increasingly appreciate the bitcoin. due payment system follows the price of bitcoin

The transactions take too much time but still people are using it and the reason is that the benefits of bitcoin are more than any other payment system or any other currency. Currently some developers are trying to solve the issue through some services like viaBTC and in the future more convenience will come.

This changes happens for a good reason i think,there are many people complaining about the rise in the fees but many are in with it,fees makes alot of sense on bitcoins transactions,it helps transaction to get confirm faster than other transactiom behind it

I doont think so. You issed the part in which because of the current btc raise people have also gain more profit and opportunity. Tho I would say that some of us small time earners were really butt hurt about this current crisis

Yeah, having a high transaction fee with Bitcoin does not make Bitcoin useless because the people that use Bitcoin may already know that if they really want something and they can’t wait for it then they would pay a high transaction fee for it. If a person wanted an item and they didn’t care for the wait then they could just put a low transaction fee and have the transaction confirmed in a couple of days.

I don't think so, because the transaction fee is not a big deal if you are earning enough bitcoins, but if your excuse will be "But I'm only earning bitcoin through FAUCETS" then it is your problem, just simple quit faucet and start to do other way where you could earn bitcoin so the transaction fee won't be a big deal to you anymore, for example is doing Signature Campaign on this forum.

Or you could do also Trading or Investing it on some investment site, though it is still depends on which way are you good at, because it would be better if the thing that you are going to do is the one that you wanted or you are good at, since you are going to do it on the long run.

Miners would earn ten times more with 1/10 the fee and 100x more transactions but this is only possible with a real scaling solution. What is going to happen as more and more transactions get priced out due to ever increasing fees is that people will eventually realize that bitcoin is useless and everyone will scramble to sell out causing another big crash.

We need a scaling solution now and before its too late.

In my opinion, bitcoin is not useless AT THE MOMENT since you can always convert it into cash. The real problem lies only on earning it. Bitcoin also has the potential to replace cash in the future. It is not useless for as long as it has monetary value in conversion.

As an asset its obviously not useless when you can still convert it, but I guess as a currency it is.

Gold is gold not not for it's usage. It's value in other things. The same with bitcoin.

Useless? are you kidding. Bitcoin is very valuable and very useful. If you think it is useless you can give me your bitcoin. Hehe ,, bitcoin very useful, for transactions between countries and banks to be sent quickly and easily, indeed the transaction fee is now too big, but that's not the point. The most important thing is how to use bitcoin

For some people who dont really know the real purpose of bitcoin,i mean the people who dont know yet about bitcoin, its useless, they think it was illegel or so on, but for us, it is useful, some people are making it as a source of income, like me. I used this to support my financial needs, so i was able to support myself in studies and this was my source of income as of now and im using this oppurtunity to save much money for my future.

The high transaction fee is fine for now from my view because if the person wants the money without waiting a few days then he or she could get the money within the hour. I think that the amount for the high speed transaction is around $1 or so depending on how much is being sent over.

We still have other alternatives like eth even though our expensive bitcoin transaction fee, can't deny that bitcoin is still feasible and many want it, so I think bitcoin is still useful even a very high bitcoin price becomes a remarkable thing in its use.

For some reason that high transaction fee makes me optimistic.
It stops bitcoin holders specially the people who have lower funds to withdraw over and over.
With that, the bitcoin number is being held and that means another price increase.
Although it is not good for merchants which do transactions all the time and people who buys item with bitcoin as payment.
What else can we do but just think of a positive side of it.

How can bitcoin is useless for everyone?
bitcoin is not definitely useless otherwise many people or members here are really interested and willing to learn or to earn money for them to lift their lives in a proper way. If you say useless basically means NO USE of it . It is not that bitcoin is useless on its own therefore bitcoin is more useful time to time and it is more you never realized the profits especially those people who doesn't want to earn and also after you have already sold all your coins maybe bitcoin will be useless for them. The members of bitcoin will be absolutely will spread out around the world and will definitely make bitcoin more and more stronger, just learn to be patient.

In my opinion the high transaction costs does not make Bitcoin useless. It is still a great store of value and using it that way doesn't require frequent transferring. It is also the number one crypto currency for trading pairs on exchanges.

Yes bitcoin fee can be a problem for the small transactions but for the high transaction the Bitcoin is the ideal for people and they trust the Bitcoin more than any other cryptocurrency.
I guess this is taking the Bitcoin to enter into a new stage, according to my analysis the Bitcoin is going to deal the high transactions in the future only, while the small transaction will be made with the alts & I hope it will not affect the Bitcoin negatively.

Accelerating Bitcoin transactions using ViaBTC is one of the important tools that are out there if anyone who has a stuck transaction needs a faster confirmation rate. I am thankful that those people mining Bitcoin released the tool because I have used it so many times and had my transactions confirmed within 24 hours without having to spend like $20 per transaction just so I can send like $0.50 to another person with a Bitcoin client.

Really now. I get that fees are higher right now but 20$ fee for a .5$ transaction? Would you really send 18k sat and pay .0072 in fees? Better to stay away from dust tx's for now and learn to maximize every transaction.

Yes Viabtc helps, but it'd be better if people doesn't intentionally set low fees and then just use the accelerator. It's only got 100 slots hourly after all.

And as for topic, BTC is still a great investment tool. Better than ever in fact. Just not much for micro-payments as it is now.

Yeah, the original promise of low transaction fees is gone.

The reason why the prices are rising is because the number of transactions being made is rising exponentially. Since there is a limit on how many transactions a miner can put in a block and the number of transactions being made has risen, one needs to pay higher to get your transaction inserted in the block.

Can we do something about that?  Maybe no, because we have to accept the fact that bitcoin price hit high right now.  And for them to earn is to give us a really high transaction fees.  Maybe we should earn more and more bitcoin first then if we need it that is the time we can exchange it.

I guess it is still a better bargain, because if dealing  with fiats, even after paying high fees, one is still often compelled to wait for a number of banking days before the transaction is completed and that goes with the extra burden of leaving h your house and showing some papers. I think this is just a phase for Bitcoin, it will get over it.

No solution other than size increase, for this we expect a lot in segwit, or there will be no other solution. We expect many new users but can't solve the problem of pending costs and transactions, as you say, this is an important phase to go through, or unlimited bitcoin issues will come back to the surface.

If you think Bitcoin is useless, surely you have not learned about Bitcoin or have never used it. Bitcoin is good way for make payment online with BIG AMOUNT, it very fast and not take more fee when you send, can anti-inflation and change the life people use it

It was not useless at the very first stages of its improvement. Now the blockchain network is extremely slow and transactions takes very much time to get confirmed. It is becoming useless evey day. Hopefully, this problem is solved.

Blame core with this :D
But just truth its really annoying that you're Transaction fee is greater than you sending amount.  Mostly you pays 20%-40%  only for the transaction fee especially if you are  sending 0.005-.01 BTC and thats why its really expensive.

but it can't be used by everybody, the limit is 100 tx per hours, do you know other services like these? would be really helpuf to bypass the limit, i don't want to pay the overpriced fee that we have know i think it's not fair, and miners know this, they just like the current limit on the block, and it's why there are many that are neutral about what to do to fix this

i am sure that in future, this problem will be fixed, i think the teams behind bitcoin is working to fixed the blockchain network. but unfortunately, i don't know what exactly they did to fixed this. but yes, i admitted that transaction is getting too slow when there are any new transactions with big file to send. but i believe that once the transaction is seen by the network, then in the end the transaction will be completed but there are no estimation how long the transactions gets confirmed, we only can wait until the process is completed.

It simply doesn't add up

Developers (i.e. the Core team) don't get anything from insane fees, and yet we should blame them. How come really? Flooding the network with spam transactions costs literally millions, should we also blame the Core developers for that? As to me, it looks rather strange if not outright suspicious that it is miners who are earning profits from higher fees and can create millions of spam transactions without actually incurring expenses, but it is still the developers who should be blamed for all Bitcoin's current misfortunes

Only stupid people say that bitcoin is useless, bitcoin is the future of the world, it helps us to generate a stable and good income.

yes although it can effect it but not so. the transaction fee is in fact effecting the small trading, it will only effect the shopping for small items, for exxaple i am gong to recharge my mobile i have to pay government tax on it. and i also have to pay transaction fee which which is more than the recharging  amount that i normally do for my mobile.

we can hope that this issue will be solve on preyority bases, because it is now creasing problems.  people are now facing hard to do small transaction, although high transaction is not creating problem, but for small transactions the problems should solve.

I agree with you but your words are also harsh. Bitcoin is the future of money so it cannot be useless in the sense that all existing money and cryptocurrencies are trying to adopt the virtues of Bitcoin

It used to be useless, because the bitcoin price increase that once was considered rubbish, again I wasted a lot of money
And I will not repeat it again.

The more negative people talk about bitcoin the stronger bitcoin gets. Perhaps for each naysayer, there are way much more new bitcoin users. Thanks for the contribution of spreading the word, even the negative ones help :-)

I agree. 2 years ago, my brother tried to study Bitcoin by himself and also try to explain it to my parents. The results that he was beaten by them, poor for him actually :v But after a bad event, he now the role of the head of the family

Bitcoin is not useless and it will not be,same like etherum it will be really important in our future and it will change fiat money so there is no worry that bitcoin will destroy us,it can just bring good.

Yes I agree the transaction fees is an issue for the small transactions. The huge transactions where having a huge profit will not be affected greatly.
Yeah the small top up type of things will cost high for the people so I guess if possible it is better to use the alts for such purposes and it has been noticed that the small transactions are now more common it the etherium and the tore coin.

Never in my whole life i treated bitcoin as useless.In fact bitcoin has been so useful to everyone.If only all people would discover its potentials,then they would all turned out into loving bitcoin.Bitcoin might help them improve themselves instead.

It will not become useless and from the beginning many said that bitcoin is useless and it has been dead for so many times.

There's a lot of people that are trying to catch up with the possible profit that they may get from investing to bitcoin.

Because they understand that it is a supreme crypto currency that can bring them riches in the future.

Bitcoin is the advanced technology useful for doing big transactions in a simple way. Some of the people said that Bitcoin is not useful, waste of investing money, etc... Don't think in negative way and research about bitcoin, then you will get an overall idea. Be positive....

Bitcoin is only useless if you don't know what to do with it and how to benefit the most from all its advantages. To my opinion bitcoin gives a variety of opportunities and options to spend it, invest it and earn on it, both in digital and real world. And if you still find bitcoin useless that it's up to you, not to bitcoin.

Those who have the guts to say those things against our bitcoin never really know anything about bitcoin.  They maybe have no idea about bitcoin and have no guts to try it.  Actually maybe they are just being afraid.  Well, we do not have to be affected with them with what they perceived with bitcoin.  We knew what is the potential of bitcoin as an investment.

Yes, bitcoin has got lots of good than bad. As everything has got good and bad, bitcoin too has got bad in it. People who prioritize the negative part can never be good with bitcoin, because always they have a fear in mind. When it comes to bitcoin one need to believe in it to use it to the fullest and profit.

Yeah I agree to you that the people who called the bitcoin is useless is idiot person. Bitcoin is our future money and it is not a useless, it is very important in our economy.

I think if Bitcoin was useless this forum wouldn't exist and none if is would be here. It would have died long ago. Clearly Bitcoin is far from useless since it has real world value even if it is digital.  Everything is digital these days. Makes sense money is too. Bitcoin is also fun to use and easy.

Indeed. Because instead of getting a great amount that you have earned in saving it or spending to your investments, the profit that you gain are somewhat lost because it is already deducted when you have to pay for transaction fee. This is a problem for bitcoin users because the money that they have earned are likely to be put into trash because of the large transaction fees.

Sorry, but if your profits largely vanish due to the transaction fee that you include, you're either a faucet/captcha farmer, or you're "investing" with amounts slightly higher than dust. And no, this isn't a problem for the regular Bitcoin users, but only to penny pinchers like you. Invest your time in something better and more worthwhile instead of focusing on ultra micro earnings -- you'll see that the fees won't be a problem anymore....

What brought you here op? If you think bitcoin is useless then you shouldn't be wasting your time here on a forum which is full of bitcoin true believers and full of those people who believe in its potential to become the number one digital currency which bitcoin already is. The high transaction fee problem will be solved sooner than later but that doesn't mean bitcoin is useless. Bitcoin has only grown ever since it came to existence and it is meant to grow more. Bitcoin has never been useless and it never will be.

Higher transaction fee would become soon an older story.Soon it would be only found in history.All such things happened due to spammers who wished to spam network with fake transactions.We all suffered a lot due to higher fee.But soon after august 1st,situations would change and we could once again enjoy low fee and fast transactions.

Yes that is right. With the high transaction fee, most bitcoin users might disengage in using bitcoin because they can see that instead of gaining, the money that supposed to be rising is deducted by high transaction fee. Despite of what is happening, we cannot evenly say that bitcoin is becoming useless because in lined with the high amount of money you want to transact, the high transaction fee you must pay. Because managing companies also pay for the transaction process  for it to be able to transact your money.

That certain thing really happens. But we cannot trulynsay that bitcoin is becoming useless just because of the high transaction fees offered in processing your transaction. It is not just the bitcoin who manage the transactions but also the miners who are paid to do the transaction process in exchange of payment. Also the higher amount of transaction, the higher amount of transaction fee you must pay for them to be able to process your transaction. Because transaction fees just rise depending upon the limit of loads in each block. Once your transaction reach its limit, you have to pay extra for the transaction process to occur.

Bitcoin is not useless, it is a decentralized digital currency or so-called electronic currency. Bitcoins themselves are not as bad as people think. Previously not involved in transactions I also believe bitcoin is virtual currency. But now I have a more accurate view of bitcoin. I believe bitcoin.

Bitcoin is very much useful,i think it is future currency.bitcoin is not handling by any government.this is decentralized also.it is very useful to fast and secure transactions.bitcoin is more profitable to investors,it is very useful to this internet world.according to  my view many people love this bitcoins.

yes bitcoin is an advanced technology and it is known by all kind of users many people around the world are using bitcoin for many purposes and still there is a huge usage in eastern countries  so it’s useful for me I value it a lot

That is true! I don’t think so bitcoins are useless in any way. There are innumerable advantages of using bitcoins, then how one can call them useless. That would be really unjust to bitcoins’ services. Bitcoins are decentralized, highly transparent, offer easy transactions etc. what else one need. Bitcoins are the future currency of world.

True I don't know if he is a trader or not because he is muttering about how useless the bitcoin industry is. Since bitcoin's price is going back and forth in these few years and at the end we ended up winning because bitcoin price is going up in the end. If we are talking about the fee then it might be higher than what we can afford but that's because this industry is still lacking on how they can charge fee to a particular transaction. There are so many projects that is being introduced to make this industry much more good than before, keep your feet in every waves coming.

well said...
nowadays bitcoin very much useful for daily life, it can be used in the transaction purpose with a minimum rate of fee, bitcoin can be smooth investment platform and trading sector. not only that bitcoin is a greater source of long-term investment because bitcoin is gaining value more and more. in the future, Bitcoin will create almost double value, so bitcoin is no more useless...

I think blind crypto-optimism actually hurts Bitcoin community, the thought that Bitcoin is perfect and soon all of humanity will open their eyes and adopt it is so naive. People don't massively use Bitcoin because current fiat systems work just fine for them, most people don't understand the benefits of decentralization and immutability, and even those who do decide that the costs of using Bitcoin in terms of fees and volatility are outweighing those benefits. In order for Bitcoin to become the world currency, it must become better than fiat in all aspects.

It isnt useless,but it is very useful because too many people and users use bitcxoin.And they often to save and store money because bitcoin can be used in thrifty days and.And the other thing is the bitcoin is very useful in the internet world.

Bitcoin is indeed very convenient to use on the Internet, but for me the main thing not it. The main thing for me is freedom of choice. The man himself can decide in what country to make money and how to manage them. Everybody needs freedom, and hence bitcoin is needed.

I cant think of any other service where you can send a million dollars across the globe instantly for less than 5$

Bitcoin is growing fast now and can be used outside the internet circles which makes it useful than ever before. Bitcoin fees are still cheaper as compared to other well known  remittance services which makes it the preferred mode of payment by many today.

The fees for transactions is so high that if you make a low transaction, it will be as even equal to the amount that is to be transacted, I have faced such in coinbase more often.

I do agree with you mate, bitcoin is still growing even with its current state. Bitcoin now is more convenient to use than other remittance services like you just said and the other reason for that is the time utility, and every utility which business has to offer, its easy to use, its convenient, and its less hassle for those who doesn't have a time to go elsewhere.

I also agree with you. I lost a lot of transaction fees. Bitcoin utility is losing. Make money from bitcoin you do not have to pay taxes. But in fact you lose a similar charge to the tax

Bitcoin is unlimited potential.time will prove.

Those fee depend on lots of things specially size of your bitcoin transaction rather than the amount you are transacting. However It is true that bitcoin is not suitable right now for micro transactions but I am quite sure that bitcoin will be cheapest and fastest way to move our money again after activation of segwit on this august.

Pls I beg, bitcoin is never useless, Bitcoin value in market nowadays is more encouraging, for a value of commodity to be useless it simply means it is not significant to you or anybody. If you could gather enough BTC today, there are enough buyer to buy from you. Bitcoin is a great business.

How can something worth too much be useless?
I can't really understand it just because of the transaction fee being high that doesn't really mean that it is useless.

Absolutely correct and bitcoin is useless then even gold and other precious metals or even every other expensive thing is useless. If bitcoin were useless the governments of so many big countries like Japan and other big companies wouldn't recognize and accept it as a payment method. High transaction fee doesn't make bitcoin useless, that issue of high transaction fee will be resolved sooner than later but besides just high transaction fee bitcoin has many more qualities which make it awesome and very useful digital currency.

OP is referring on raised fees, that is behind us now but we must agree that transaction fees were high for many of us. To pay 5$ for 10$ transaction is a problem. I know that 5$ fee is OK if you are sending +1000$ but not all of us here are rich and not all the things are expensive, bitcoin would be useless in that way, why would we use bitcoin if using is cost too much?
Every coin have a two sides, all I can say that with high fees bitcoin would be useless for daily use. Situation is much better now, and I hope that we will not see similar situations in the future. In the beginning when I started to use bitcoin was promoted as a decentralized currency with very low sending fees, it would be best to stay like that.

Well you gotta take note that in some countrys there are litterally BTC ATM's and you can actually buy something with it so i would say it really is a real currency.If you dont think it is just wait for more ppl to accept it and see

People here are shortsighted ~ just because the higher fees are burning through their faucet/captcha earnings (which took them days to collect), Bitcoin has no more use for them, and thus its useless.

It's their twisted and toxic form of logic. If you globally look at the people who are complaining about the higher fees, then the faucet/captcha farmers account for the largest part.

People for once should stop wasting their days earning a few satoshis here and there. In order to move that dust, a fee that likely is more than double in quantity needs to be included, otherwise it will never confirm.

I wish that we get a positive result from this upcoming segwit event.

I am quite confident that segwit will bring positive result because it is the only viable solution right now to solve all block size related debates we have for years.

well you are right that bitcoin is increasing its price every day instead of decreasing it has become more easy and more convenient with the development and improving of the using procedure  of the bitcoin so it is now more easy to use than before.

Yes that's a wonderful question, I'm also getting curious about that fee. On the first time it was just okay but as time goes by the fees are getting high. I wonder where that fees goes, the last time I checked, bitcoins are decentralized. Where does that goes? Can you tell me where?

You are right, bitcoins is just not good for transaction of small payment because of the fees sending
but bitcoins is still good to be considered as digital asset or digital gold,
bitcoins is still useful, it is just not good for be currency especially for small amount of transaction
let's wait until the activation segwit2x on bitcoin's network sounds can fix this problem.

People were thinking that bitcoin is useless 4 years ago.
Look at them now :D

This post has to be the stupidest  I've come across on this forum. even with the increased fees, bitcoins is still cheaper than most money transfer instruments. For tiny amount, it may not be ideal if compared to paypal or skrill, both those are centralized and can decide to keep your money with no recourse to you. I expect the fee issue to resolved at some point.

How could bitcoin be useless? As long as is the strongest cryptocurrency with highest value, as long as you can trade it or buy and sell stuff for it it will not be useless. So I don't think bitcoin is just experiment, it's much more.

umm you are very much right here that bitcoin is a kind of currency in which people invest happily and confidently and with each investment the price of bitcoin increases so! Bitcoin can never get down infect bitcoin is being more and more safe and secure so the future of bitcoin is very high and  it will never get down.

although still people are giving priority to bitcoin but for most of the time they use it for big transaction, while while for small translation people try to avoid because of the high transaction fee. i think this problem should be solve so that we can becoming able to purchase small items through online shopping for example it is really cost too much to topup our mobile, some time the transaction fee is more than the recharge amount.

"Digital money such as BTC will only match the attributes of physical cash if there are major advances in the ease, cost and certainty with which digital transactions are handled. In particular there will need to be considerable progress in the following areas: verification, confidentiality, ease of use, interoperability and reliability – throughout the entire transaction chain."

Obviously, BTC is not useless. Everything has a purpose. That is an excerpt from my all time favorite PDF for moneys :D

1. International money transfer,
2. for keep money,
3. gambling,
4. pay for internet service,
5. pay to freelancers it foreign countries

Decentralization includes many parties, which we need to know is the need for exchange services and many miners to help us transact, this doesn't change the decentralization element, high fee depends on the price level and mempoll depth.

I am sure no one in the right sense would think that bitcoin was useless in 2013 if that is what you are telling,if you are getting a valuation for a product how can that be useless and how would anyone think like that,so everyone who understand the technology and understand the impact it can make will understand the true value of bitcoin.

Chick the last 3 years of evolution of bitcoin in the cryptocurrenci, his value go to the sky in relationship of 4 years ago and maybe it will continued to incrised his value.

Bitcoin is a money and money can never be useless and if you think that its useless then even fiat is useless but I don't think that any user of bitcoin will consider it as a useless as its helping all of us in best ways and also taking care of our expenses.

Bitcoin is not that really popular in our country. But we can exchange bitcoin in Philippine peso. It is not useless as you can use it, I believe such sites can accept bitcoins as their payment for their access. Bitcoin is versatile  when it comes to its usage.

Bitcoin is very useful for the new generation customers to reduce their presence while doing transactions as people are eligible to do digital money exchange between two Bitcoin wallets. At first, I didn't believe and don't care about Bitcoin technology. After some days, I heard that my friend was invested and earn money. Then, research about that and invested. I will use my bitcoins for transactions purpose only. If the value is more, then I will sell or use for my new business.

Bitcoin is not useless, because using bitcoin more unemployed people were got job using bitcoin. Moreover bitcoin help all level of people in different countries to have an income.

Yes bitcoin is unless if you do not work at right position or if you do not maintain their link rule & regulation .then we think its unless.

Of course bitcoin certain is not useless and I can defend it because it actually gives us a good sources of financial freedom. That job being provided to us by bitcoin really brings better life to us, and the unemployed people wull just prefer earning better rather than employed ones. If all people around the world will gain positive visions, I think they will develop that attitude of being hardworking for bitcoins.

It's not useless and the reason also why the fees are increasing is because the bitcoin also is increasing in it price that's how it is mate. And, further to what you complain about the fees maybe we should wait with some further advancement of the incoming Segwit this !st of August it will be tackled I think right there the fees if it will increased there but with a higher effect that it would be faster because of the many blockchain slow transactions.

It depends on the user who uses it, and in my opinion very few due to the lack of understanding about the goodness of bitcoin describe bitcoin as useless. More users at the beginning of digital currency usage doesn't believe in its potential, but the time gives the real answer to it and make people trust in it and make further investments.

Definitely bitcoin is not useless, nowadays more people used bitcoins to buy their needs and wants in different country. Actually many of us here earned bitcoin in joining signature campaign, bounty and trading.. So i am pretty sure that the bitcoin is very useful and helpful to everyone.

Well considering I just purchased some printer ink to be delivered to my door I would say it certainly is very useful. I have bought a heat gun diablo3 overwatch boxed editions. I have bought art supplies and electronics. I have even paid for PC parts with Bitcoin. So yes it works it's fast an amazing. It's much wuxker then paying by bank and way less of s headache.

OP was talking specifically about paying high fees for a low value transaction.
After reading your answer, I do not get the impression that you've even read the first post of this thread.

Also, this thread was made a while ago when transaction fees were a lot higher than they are now.

I agree.Bitcoin has become so much useful nowadays.Since people are already expose to cryptocurrencies right now,then having bitcoin  is the best choice.Bitcoin from the start prove to me that it's more than fiat money,it can be a source of your retirement in the future.It can really change someone's lifestyle.I believe bitcoin had helped everyone especially those who are in the state of poverty.

Exactly its because miners also need to earn porfit on their job. The higher the fee that you have paid the fastest its transaction will be. So if you paid for a low transaction fee then it may take long time or even day before it process.

Really!
What a joke yrr!!
when I am sending 100 dollars to a friend it wants to pay 2.30 dollars to get it sent with "hope" to get it there in under one hour!

bitcoin is really very useful for all the price of the bitcoin is increasing day by day and it will increase in some days today the price of the bitcoin is suffering from a little dump but it will maintain its position soon if it is down today it will increase and will take the user to the high position again so bitcoin is a useful currency it is never been useless.

bitcoin is not useless, it is the simplest way to do transactions, and its value, thoug volatile, is always getting higher, you can make a fortune from bitcoin if you know how to invest it.

Bitcoin is very useful for me but do not know bitcoin for others ,, because of the bitcoin now my life so changed, farther than yesterday, lucky i can get to know bitcoin.

This is reason make me worry about the future of Bitcoin, because if we want have a currency community fair and not corrupt, the issue high fees need solve soon. It look like as we spend our money for bribery miner helps our transaction confirm earlier than other transaction hash on network.

i am hopeful that all the issues related to bitcoin will be solve very soon. in fact bitcoin is not going to be useless so soon. but i am sure that people will continue using bitcoin for a number of reasons, currency people are using bitcoin for investment and for trading, while in futures it is expected that people will continue using it for shopping not only for online shopping but will also use it for shopping in their local shops but i think that it will take some more time.

Yes, i costs alot of money to transact small money. I have changed my default currency to another altcoin. Hope in future dev can find way to fix that problem

I don't know why people are complaining with the fees, I will admit it is really a big fee but I don't think that it needs to be complained. With the high price of bitcoin now, it is really obvious.

If you are having a hard time with this fees, I suggest you avoid making transactions with a small amount especially when you're coins to be transacted are equal to the miner's fee.

I agree with him. It,s impossible, because bitcoin is too much trusted currency . Now, in the world the popularity of bitcoin is so much. It is a part of life at most 30% people. It is a virtual currency. So people trust it so much. I believe that the future of bitcoin is bright. I love Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is on the rise and it isn't useless at all, especially for those who are out of work and rely on Bitcoin as a day to day income. Many of us have been priced out or kicked out of the traditional job market and without Bitcoin a lot of us would be lost by the way side.

I am a bit annoyed that my government still has not set the bitcoin so bitcoin is only included in the online market that can not be applied offline, this makes bitcoin useless in the eyes of many real workers. But I see it from the point of view of the virtual investment assets and the increase in trading volume so they will be surprised when the bitcoin price is legal and has a price above the fiat average.

Yes, I totally agree with your opinion. I think Bitcoin has many functions and it is also very useful. The use of modern blockchain technology makes it easier and more convenient for people to transaction, trade, saving money. Another thing is that, as you say, Bitcoin has helped people without a job to earn income, although the income is not high but it is very useful to them, making their life better than before. And my life is better thanks to Bitcoin

If that bitcoin is not useful why the price to pay for a coin can be as high as it is now. Indeed for transaction costs are quite expensive but who need it more and more.

The high price is not just a thing that makes bitcoin what it is  , they have numerous advantages that are very profitable to a professional as well as a newbie.
If at all the price's go down we all know that bitcoin did set an example for the world that crypto currency are worth investments and is more than ready to be accepted by every government on the globe .
Bitcoins did cause for the birth of other digital crypto currency like ethereum .  the price's of bitcoin may fluctuate but in long term they always seem to go up if at all the value becomes low many people would buy BTC just because they have trust in BTC that it would gain value by taking its time

I don’t really see anything that makes bitcoin useless in anyway. Unless, to those that sees it as useless, but not for me. With Bitcoin you can accomplish a lot of things today, including making an easy sending and receiving of payment, a reliable source for making savings and increasing your income and a lot more of other things.

I do agree with you. The price of bitcoin keeps increasing and that has proved bitcoin is not useless. More people are buying bitcoin because they believe in it. They believe that bitcoin can give you the think which real money can not give them

you don't have to worry about that problem because near in future when bitcoin become most famous the transaction fee is also so less that we can afford small transactions by very big profit, so i suggest you to stick with bitcoin

I agree that bitcoin fees are being to much higher at the moment, just a minutes ago i wanted to make a payment of about 0.01 and they charged 0.001 of fees, that is quite high. There are wallets that are charging up to 0.002 per transaction.
That is the only thing that i dont like of bitcoin, also today the blockchain network is so slowly.

One could also argue that gold is as useless as bitcoin. It is a good electrical conductor and bracelets look good on a lady's naked skin and they love jewlery gifts made from gold. Other than that it is a useless metal.

On the other hand, people use gold as a store of value since thousands of years because it is heavy, shiny, in limited supply and relatively difficult to mine.

Bitcoin is much of the same as gold, and more. But it's not possible to surprise your lady with it and it is not shiny.

True, bitcoin transactions are now becoming expensive .. as well as the services used are still the same. Now there is no word "easy transaction with cheap fee" is just a lie. All bitcoin fees go up and make people lose their money to make transactions. I think it's cheaper to use bank transactions than bitcoins.

It does not seem like a good analogy, since all those applications that use gold as a raw material (and many more, especially in science) are enough arguments to establish that gold is not a useless metal. In terms of practical usefulness in real life, there is no doubt that gold can not be considered as worthless ... which would be difficult to defend in the case of bitcoin and other altcoins, although it is well known that the blockchain has proven to be very useful for a myriad of utilities in the virtual world.

The value of a Bitcoin depends on the perspective of each individual. Some may view bitcoin is useless while some value bitcoin and maximize its use as far as it can. Personally, bitcoin is not at all useless because in this day and age where technology is really part of our daily lives, and bitcoin, as everyone believes is the future of money, you can do a lot with it and its up to you to make it your advantage among the people who see it as useless.

The bitcoin become expensive the fees become high. This is the most issues when bitcoin become expensive and I hope this will be corrected. I still use bitcoin than bank in bank every transactions is monitor and they always verify your outgoing transactions. Bitcoin is still going strong just the transaction fees hope it would be less.

Bitcoin is not useless it's useful for consumer.
Now days Bitcoin became more and more popular to people and people like to use it.

Words like useless, waste etc are not supposed to be called with bitcoins in any sense. Any person with a little common sense and a little search on bitcoins will avoid such rubbish thing. Bitcoins is the most expensive asset now but people are too ignorant or arrogant.

High transactions fees does not equate to Bitcoin being a useless currency, its just that this are simply needed in order for the whole operation to be working. Additionally there are ways to avoid the fees like inter-wallet transfers, what I mean about that is some wallet providers have free transfers if you are exchanging it in the same wallet e.g. Coinbase to Coinbase and the transfer is fast. Don't judge Bitcoin just because of its fees it has other useful function such as being an investment for us.

I think this is one of the problem bitcoin is facing. Bitcoin transaction fee is too high, it's not like the way it is before. I think the charges didn't change, that's why a lot of people are complaining about it being expensive, it's because of bitcoin price is increasing. Before, people would even just ingore 100k satoshi transaction fee because it was cheap, but now 100k satoshi would hurt a lot, because it costs more more than a dollar.

Of course bitcoins aren't useless you think so because transactions fees are bit high now but you won't look at the fact that how much does bitcoins value have risen past this year from $900 to sky rocketing $4800 so of course transactions fees would have increased.Though that it is around $5 i think it is worth the price of bitcoin.Its high for micro Transactions but many people use it for big transactions where thus $5 are negligible.Bitcoins are still great for long term investment and even many countries have start recognising it's potential as bitcoin has been legalised in many countries.

Yes it is true that bitcoin is getting more and more popularity day by day. So this statement is useless not really the bitcoin is. Everyone will see in the near future that there will be only one currency prevail throughout the world and that will be the crypto digital currency. It will be used by everyone to buy anything required by them throughout the whole world and they will pay from their bitcoin wallet easily.

If Bitcoin was useless it would be worth $0. Anything that is useless is also worthless. Therefore given the price of Bitcoin is $4,500 and growing it means Bitcoin is very useful.

i think its because of the value of bitcoin, recently the transactions fee from all remittance not just than that but all transactions related from bitcoin are raise to its original promise fee because of its value and demand now. more and more people are buying/to have/gain much bitcoin to get them much profit in the near future so the quantity of bitcoin are become much limited because some of the other people are collect them as much as they can and holding it until it pump huge in the market,

Bitcoin is not useless, but definetly its helps a lot the people to have a works ,to have an exchange trade to its ecomic products  easily.

Whatever the transaction cost is all about, i will consider bitcoin as useful in my part. It gives me job and extra income that help me support my fees in school and support the basic needs of my family.

I don't care about its usage anymore like some other people said.

I try to see the demand to bitcoin, and popularity of it. Bitcoin doesn't have to be used in real life.

We can try to benefit from its economical and financial aspects, its market value, its demand. Everything.

Yes I also agree with you that we should see the demand for bitcoin and not the use of it. Because if something is growing more and more in a few years, it means that its importance and advantages have been accepted by the people of the whole world. Therefore I also do not think that bitcoin is useless. It was useless then many of the people would not invest in bitcoin. They would invest in some other business.