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The story is here: http://nsnbc.me/2013/04/18/federal-reserve-refuses-to-submit-to-an-audit-of-germanys-gold-held-in-u-s-vaults-2/


What is goin on with all this gold theft popping up lately? Where is the gold?

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/4/23_Sinclair_-_Swiss_Bank_Just_Refused_To_Give_My_Friend_His_Gold.html
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Israel-refuses-to-return-US-gold-and-billions-of-dollars

I've been pretty calm about the financial crisis, I haven't seen much that I thought would really cause the house of cards to come crashing down overnight, but this concerns me.

If it's really not there, and it gets out, it's game over. Stock bids vanish, banks meltdown, dominoes crash, everything solid turns to air. Good luck making payroll or even using your debit card two weeks later.

You can't trust physical gold either, even from reputable dealers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmKCQQz2WA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmKCQQz2WA)

Time for plan BTC.

Germany is a de-facto occupied nation behind the charade of a democratic government. Its not really their gold to repatriate.

This is a major development... we haven't been tied to a gold standard since 1971 BUT all the gold that is "sold" to bullion banks and to other governments usually doesn't actually get shipped it just "sits" in the vaults... just re-labled or something... but if it can't actually be physically delivered.... it means the world financial ponzi is about to collapse...

Please don't type "FED" in all caps.  It's not an acronym.  It's not only wrong but makes Fed critics look like complete idiots and discredits our criticisms.  

Not the only indication the story is bogus (though that is inevitably true when you see "FED").  The NY Fed gives public tours of the gold vault all the time, and private ones too (they did for me when I worked for Ron Paul).  The whole site seems sketchy.

Actually the seven years to return Germany's gold has been all over the news for a while now. This isn't a new thing. If you go and use your Google-Fu to research it, you'll find that the story is entirely true. Several nations have been repatriating their physical gold reserves in the last couple of years. I don't blame them. If you can't pick it up and hold it, you don't own it.

Thralen

Yup, this "news" is at least a few months old.  It's the "FED" that's sketchy, nobody really knows how much gold they have / don't have.  Freebanking is either out to lunch, or possibly a sock puppet??

I remember news from a few months ago saying Germany was seeking to move their gold out.
I did not really think that this would be the way how things got "resolved".
This also explains to me why gold took a dive.

We'll probably see another dive when Germany tries to do something about this and get "shot down" again.

Good news for BTC bulls!

Uhh. This is not MSNBC, it's NSNBC.ME which uses a newspaper wordpress theme. Why would anything from this site be considered any more credible than the opinion of a poster here on this very forum? (Not that any news site these days deserves much credit at that).


I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the "source" for this article is the same article from the same author on a different site http://www.4thmedia.org/2013/04/16/federal-reserve-refuses-to-submit-to-an-audit-of-germanys-gold-held-in-u-s-vaults/ where the only comments were:



TL;DR? I'm not saying people shouldn't spread their opinions around like diarrhea, but they should at least have the common courtesy to provide some source paper to wipe it up with.

Google is your friend.

Reality check.

Did Germany get their gold back?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.................. .............

no, it is not a good thing at all.  It is indicative of a greater problem that we don't have knowledge of.  DOes it sound like a deal "these days"?  Yeah, unfortunately...

And greetings to Germany!

Sorry dude, but we're broke.

Greetings from America.

If there's anything I remember from my high school economics class, it was my teacher saying something about, if the whole world starts asking America for its money back, and since America has so many debts it can never do that, the world's going to hell.

Can't wait to see what happens next :D  Here's hoping I don't die from it.

Actually, that's neither a sufficient or a partial answer to the mystery.  The German gold is and always was THEIRS.  It was a physical product warehoused here.  To our knowledge, it could not ever have been sold 100 times to 100 people, as we know has recently happened with some of the supposed 'stored gold'.

So we DON'T KNOW WHAT WENT ON.

I know I read somewhere the Fed has been loaning out gold to short sellers, but I'm to lazy to look it up because I don't have much interest in gold.  However, I believe it's likely gone.

"Uncle Sam" is a SCAMMER. Should be blacklisted.

Takes your Gold, sells it to China..like a boss.  
 
I have no words for this.
Now seriously, where is the Gold?

That would be very interesting if it was true.   Something tells me that would be a closely guarded secret. 

But usually someone sings like a canary sooner or later on secrets.

Why wouldnt germany keep its gold in its own vaults?

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

what Stampbit said

Germany is more likely to be invaded than the US in case of war...

I read in a newspaper some time ago the reason is to get fast US$ in case of crises in Germany or Europe. the German government want to be liquid in such a case. they have gold at serveral locations and are able to exchange it to fiat money very fast.

You'll need a Canadian proxy if you aren't within Canada but this documentary was done mid last month and is one of the most interesting things I have watched about modern gold. The mention of Germany not even being allowed to see their own gold is only a small part. Well worth finding the proxy. Try proxyfire and configure firefox.

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episode/the-secret-world-of-gold.html

Well back in '44 and '45 the world was a crazy place. Berlin had just been captured by Russian and Polish troops and the United States had just drop the world's second nuclear bomb on Japan. Europe was in shambles and some damn stability was needed.

So while Europe was busy blowing things up the allied countries sent some representatives to this place in New Hampshire called Bretton Woods. These really smart guys created a plan for stability. They created something called the International Monetary Fund, and they all agreed that the Pound Sterling wasn't really what it used to be. So they all decided to tie their exchange rates to the dollar. That seemed pretty stable. Why?

Well for that lesson, you'd have to go back to 1934 and the Gold Reserve Act, which set a fixed exchange rate for the dollar and gold. Anyway, I'm getting off track for our story.

Now, since you could convert a dollar into gold, having a US dollar was really like having some gold. Countries like that.

And in fact, countries thought it wasn't a bad idea to let the US hold their gold. Safe place, hard to attack, and all. They sent their gold to the New York Federal Reserve, where the gold is weight and recorded and entered into ledgers and receipts given. Now the important thing about gold stored in the NY Federal Reserve is that it's not considered fungible. That there is a 10 btc word meaning that you're going to get back the exact gold you put it.

Now the countries didn't really convert their dollars into gold. They just liked the idea that they could. But that all changed in early '70's when Nixon shocked the world by declaring the US wasn't going to be tied to no gold standard, no way, no how.

Probably, didn't really matter anyway, by then US could only cover about 22% of dollars that were out there and no one really believed in that whole dollars into gold thing anyway.

Anyway there are a bunch of countries with receipts for gold from the NY Federal Reserve. In fact, there was this small but vocal group of people in Germany that kept calling for their government to get their gold back, or at least an audit for God's sake. Finally, the Bundesbank heard the voices from this small group and has asked for a sizable portion of their gold back.

I think that brings us up to date on where were are in this story.
 

Nice history lesson.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/business/global/german-central-bank-to-repatriate-gold-reserves.html?_r=0

....And the Germans were refused.  Why?  The FED didn't need to refuse, they have lots of money.  THey can print money and buy gold with it.  So why couldn't the Germans see, audit or take their gold?

I think there's a crime here.

Why haven't gold prices skyrocketed on this news?   ???

Yes this is old news, there's no change. From what I recall Germany moved a lot of gold to the Bankrupt States of America during the cold war.

First, the mainstream media did not pick the story up.  Second, the US did not outright refuse to give them the gold - they reached an agreement that half of it would be returned by 2020.  The important thing is what you get if you read between the lines.

Finally, counterparty risk in gold can simultaneously cause the price to go up, and down.  It's the paper gold that's the problem.

Did Germany have only paper gold?  If so, where did the serially number bars go?

Guess all the world is broke... :-\


jFYI

Just some figures...

Now
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1536 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
France "stock": 347 tons.
Germany "stock": 1036 tons.

As the Bundesbank decides in January to have 50% of the whole reserves "in town", the plan is moving 300 tons from New York and the bunch from France to Germany.

2020 plan
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1236 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
Germany "stock": 1710 tons.

All gold bought between 1951 and 1968 (or 1971), therefore no paper gold at all.

Greetings from Germany! :)

I read somewhere that Germany gets paid %1 per year interest for doing so, besides the historical reasons (Germany stored their gold in many different places to lessen the chance the gold would be stolen during war)

One of the main purposes of having gold reserves is so that your government-in-exile has something to work with in the event of an invasion or a coup.

According to sources more reliable than "nsnbc.me", the German cabinet originally tried to do it the right way and turn $100 billion into Bitcoins and stick them in a multi-sig brain-wallet, but they got stuck in the verification queue.

Because it had become a looted, occupied, carved up and divided police state territory after losing the war, and never recovered it. Degaulle recovered France's, then "IT" happened...


http://goldratefortoday.org/history-gold-part-3-bretton-woods-system/


and now it's happening again

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_dollar_France_Sarkozy_de_Gaulle_crisis_111020072

There is no more "US Gold" there hasn't been and there still isn't, it was mostly all on paper to begin with and that was lent out and stolen and then the dud loan/bonds and their "derivatives" were/have been and still are being "hypothecated" a hundred times over.

I explain "derivatives" here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175708.msg1832923#msg1832923

Many folks suspect Ft. Knox and other U.S gold reserves were raided a while ago.

I saw a terrific documentary on it, but damn it, can't recall what it was called. It might have been a part of 'Money Masters'.

But they hardly allow any audits of the reserves, there is very little accountability, and (obviously) no one really knows which element of our the great benevolent American Empire stole it.

This is a good read, written in 2007, before Bernanke's QE1 announcement in August 2008. You can see front lines in our current currency war to materialize before your very eyes....


The exporting of inflation from the US to the rest of the world becomes the result. Charles de Gaulle's quote that "a rush for the exits – out of the Dollar – might just 'shatter the world' " still stands true today.

Really?  Actually, you've got PAPER GOLD, NOW?

Welcome to the world of the wannabe socialist enablers, the FED.

The Federal Reserve and many central banks like it have to this day engaged in fraud, extortion, blackmail and price fixing since their conception, they have always committed crimes, the only difference is, they don't go to jail for it like the rest of us would.

the fed's vaults are not a "sovereign" state. the fed is a private corporation.
that lends money to the US

No worries, we will get our gold out there. You know how? By threatening to completely dump our reserves on the market while holding a ridiculous ton of options.

Germany is, and that is a funny thing, one of the largest world economies. And lately, our government has gone megalomanic. We have realized that a majority portion of our money comes from Europe, not the US, and therefore started strangling everyone in Europe that didn't like our politics. I am not a fan of this, but the pressure coming from the German government, while we in fact are basically printing money to buy every illiquid state in the European Union to dictate our terms, is ridiculous.

You might not have noticed, but our chancellor is actually a pretty cool one. Tough, smart and does not really give a shit. Criticism just pearls away from her, like a Teflon pan. But next to her sits another guy. A guy in a wheelchair, his name is Wolfgang Schäuble. He is, to my understanding, probably a little more dangerous than all others. He has shown to be a choleric, near antisocial personality that has mobbed out his best people. He has shown zero tolerance and zero understanding for other nations. And he is the one that will ultimately push for the moves when it comes to finance, since he is the secretary of finance. Almost every single move of this man has been dangerous. Every single policy this man pushed forward has been leading towards more disaster. He is behind the crackdowns on the german elite right now, pushing some of the most notorious tax evaders into submission.

He is aided by the german social party, who hate his guts, but thanks to their neverending fiscal stupidity, are pushing us further and further towards a never paid back debt level. And with this debt, we are "buying" other countries.


So, the gold? Yeah, the Bundesbank will put options and certificates out buying German gold reserves. That is my guess. After some time, once losses are consolidated a little, they will start pressuring to bring the gold back or simply sell it.

And this is the effect of the fed's quantitative easing policy. In order to remain competitive, since all trade is linked to the dollar, countries around the world need to print money. ECB is no exception. The difference between Germany and other EU countries is that Germany has a robust economy that is able to absorb the printing of those Euros. The smaller countries? Not so much. On the surface you can call it a bailout. I think it's more like the wealth of those smaller countries is being inflated away.

I actually disagree with the theory that Fannie May, Freddie Mac, the Fed, etc, etc, ad nauseum, are "separate from the US".  They are so created to create the appearance of distance between entities, yes.

ANYWAY, interesting question.

Suppose Germany were to sell some of the gold in the FED vault - auction it on the market. 

What price would they get?

LOL...

A good one. They would sell it as an option to produce the gold for a certain price: Paper gold.

Why, here's the way it would have to work in this twisted fucked up bankster world.

You buy the option for the FED held gold from Germany, then by a credit derivative swap as a bet that they don't pay off.  Then you get the gold if they pay, and the gold if they don't pay.

Wait....something's wrong there.....

You forgot something. You need to sell a future on this one, being a bank and all, with the option to buy it if they happen to ship before day X.

That is, you get a piece of paper that allows you to buy a piece of paper on day x, if the gold backing the piece of papers has been audited yet. At 5% management fees, of course.

Hey, the lite's going on in my small brain.  So then I get these pieces of paper of my own, like, I own them fair and square.  Then I can sell paper on paper, and the paper that I sold, well people could do paper on top of that.  I could get rich....

But wait....something's not quite adding up...

Ich bien ien!

Why Germany wants its 674 tons of gold back
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/16/why-germany-wants-its-674-tons-of-gold-back/

Germany Wants Its Gold Back—Should You Worry?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100382718

Why Germany Wants to See its US Gold
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-politicians-demand-to-see-gold-in-us-federal-reserve-a-864068.html

During the cold war they thought it was more safe in the USA because the russians could overrun germany in a day or two.

Please read this, this is so Bogus. If you ever see someone touting their PhD, Dr... it's bullshit, they better be saying what that PhD is in, I have a doctorate in economics... does that mean I can be trusted to do a physical checkup on you? Bogus.

http://www.eruptingmind.com/how-to-persuade-different-types-of-people/

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/TristanLoo4.html

I'm not saying that governments don't do this, but I very well know it is usually one dude; A psychopath/Con artist/ emotionaly disturbed individual who has gained enough power to get people to do as they say. Having been born in Honduras, you could see these people all the time, pulling their cons, inpersonating people in power, gun/drug smuggling, and usually they don't live too long, sooner or later someone finds out and tracks them down. Ever heard of the guy that started the Civil war in Guatemala did the Coup d'etat over the liberal government at the time and got replaced with a dictatorship? His wife bragged about it... you can read the history, they found them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

Actually, we have stored over half of the Gold over here. The reason we have kept this gold in several places (London, New York, Paris) is that this way, transactions between countries were easily solved: Move gold from room one to room two. Ten meters difference. Better than loading 3 tons of gold on a transporter and move it from capital to capital.

Imagine if you were concerned that the bank where you keep half your money isn't doing well and you ask to withdraw all of it.

They tell you you can't, because "that's simply not practical", BUT, if you don't raise a fuss, they'll pay you back a little bit at a time over the next few years, as long as you keep quiet.

What would you do?

Well, good question.

Their point of view would have some merit, if phrased as a concern against my actions causing a bank run.  I'd require a line of credit against the collateral, at some nominal interest like 0.1%/annum.

Having done that, I'd begin moving fund around, using a random series of ins and outs both temporally and in volume and dollar amounts.

And at the right time, I'd fuck the fuckers.

lol, good one!

Considering the German government... they are so damn backwards, it would not happen before 2030. When all politicians from NOW are pensionated and in retirement.

And we're not just talking about Joe Schmoe wanting his $10k from a bank with a few $Billion to work with. Germany's gold holdings at the Fed accounts for a sizable fraction of the Fed's overall gold reserves, and it sounds like that's a much larger fraction than what the Fed has been loaning it out against.

Not only that, but seeing that this is now public knowledge, far smarter and more invested people are going to be concerned, and the implications of a gold run on the Fed is mind boggling.

I just hope I have enough crypto's by that time to sit back and watch it all unfold as the S hits the fan.

Yeah, they don't want law discussions with germans.


We are going to engage them in hour long meetings after meetings after meetings, stalling and postponing with always new annoying people like our current Foreign Secretary, for hours and hours on end.

After some time, the people will start donating just to give the gold back, hoping that the german delegations are going to stop with the hourlong meetings, protocols and talks about regulations and details. Bureaucracy knockout from Germany? Well, every citizen in Germany had one of those. I had many. There is a joke in Asterix comics from France about "the house that makes crazy people." It was in the Asterix movie about conquering rome. The house that makes crazy people is harmless against German bureaucracy.

Now I am scared, for the well being of our diplomats who are so unfortunate as to be assigned to work with your people.  Fortunately, we have many who must be demoted from the very top and so you may fight your teams outnumbered, although by dwarfs of small minds, who peer far standing fearlessly from the shoulders of even shorter and smaller minds.

"Why would you (as a nation) store your gold in another (US) nations vault?"

Simple, same reason you 'store' your money in a bank, kinda.

Totally theoretical 'what if' ..
-----------------------------------------------

Stage 1 - US "Store your gold in our banks, because we have a fuck huge military and NO ONE will start a war with us. So your gold is perfectly safe with us." Whilst leaning heavily on the person playing with a knife that is tapping countries like Vietnam, South Korea, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran....

Federal Reserve (a privately run corporation) uses the military might of the USA to make these promises, of which then the gold goes into the Federal Reserves pocket

(I mean, a chunk is in the NYC vaults, and that City is ruled by Kissinger, if you didn't know how evil that fucker is and what he's been behind before, then take a look at the recent wikileaks).

Stage 2 - Clever/evil/greedy bastichs make clever deals and similar over the years, selling bonds/stocks/shares, etc, to slowly move the majority (if not all) of the stored gold into their personal vaults. Or buying the gold up, or lets be serious, these people are NOT above blatantly stealing the lot.

(Bets are - check Rothschilds and various other Bilderberg personal/family vaults to find the 'missing' gold).

Stage 3 - Other nation states "Urm, can we have our gold back now?"
US "Yea... gold..? whats that then?"

Stage 4 - Global economical collapse.

Napleons War, WWI, WWII, and times before and after. Everytime there's a HUGE financial crime, you gotta look between the lines, each war, every time. Usually the UK profiteering, even now (City Of London, the 1 square mile).

You don't need another war, no WWIII will ever happen, just a global economical collapse, well, so the plan goes. Globe turns to gold temporarily, and when fiat picks back up they havn't just brought out other major corporations, or nations... they've brought the damn world.

Notes: Check who profited from each war. Check the sale/collapse of huge corporations that 'they' have brought up over time. Check how many nations they 'brought' (turned into debt slaves) after each war. Check how many nations are actually under their control (have huge debts).

But there's still free people, there's still free land.

BUT - after a global economical collapse, and those that have all the gold rise up and buy everything up ... how much do you think will be free after that?

--------------------------------------------------

Go a park, or open bit of grass, where you can get a good view of your local area, or just a good view of a lot of houses and buildings. Now how much of all that see is owned by the banks? How many houses per 100 can someone say "I own my house fully." How many people will be able to say that after a global collapse?

Does anyone else here read all this and think 'why are we still using gold?'. It seems so primitive and outdated...

What we need is some sort of digital version  :P

If only the Fed could mathematically prove that they own the gold they say they own...

If only they could transfer it instantly across continents cheaply and safely...

If only there was some form of digital gold that allowed this... ;D

Digital gold? That's crazy talk!

Someone please put this on t-shirts, and I'll buy a bunch, promise.

The gold is a lie!

I think the intriguing part of this story, and the part that sooner or later will possibly require a new future POTUS to send armed soldiers to this facility to check on, is the physical presence of those numbered bars in that facility.

Or not, and if not, there is a crime, and it should be investigated.

Let the heads roll on this one.

So, from this point of view, it really doesn't need a coverup or any politics involved.  Germany was correct to attempt an audit.

.

Wow!  While reading some of these articles I did not realize how ignorant I was about this.  I can't even imagine how this will effect the world if the truth is that there really is no gold (or not much gold) being held by the US.  Especially if they are supposed to be holding it safely for other nations.  Could a war erupt over that?  There have been wars over less.

Must Reads

Thinking Like "Fat Tony" (James Turk - Sep 9, 2008)
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Turk/turk_sep092008.html


BTW the much-celebrated "US Mint Working Stock" that James Turk wrote that article so glowingly about that had been unchanged since 2006 until the time of his writing then, IS NOW, STILL, in 2013 "miraculously" reported to be the exact same 2,783,218.656 Troy Ounces!  ;D  In fact, the whole so-called "report" never changes, like it was some sort of a Coles Notes answer they regurgitate on their "term paper" every year.. (or a cement-cast of Marilyn Monroe's butt on Hollywood Blvd.)

Perhaps they think this rare and special collection of artistically inspired reports might fetch them some gold at Sotheby's someday.

Could it be some marvellous modern miracle of "Exactly Just To The Second For Years Deliveries" ??
Although I cannot at all agree with James Turk's grossly erroneous conclusions about (us all having a publicly owned and operated) central reserve bank, (as opposed to the criminal private ones who have had us) I'll tell ya what Fat Tony and Dr John would both have to say, now...


Are We On The Verge Of Witnessing The Death Of The Paper Gold Scam?(Michael Snyder - May 9, 2013)
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/are-we-on-the-verge-of-witnessing-the-death-of-the-paper-gold-scam

A publicly owned and operated, for public profit, Central Reserve Banking system (and money) would make taxation obsolete. Julius Caesar, Henry 1st, George Washington and Abe Lincoln all proved it, and JFK might have again...

Gold has always been the problem and never been the solution. A Medium of Labour-Resource Exchange IS what it IS, it need not ever also be anything else (that can be easily monopolized) that it isn't!

Interesting quote from the "Thinking Like Fat Tony" article:
I guess those of us who have invested in BTC at least have some "Black Swan Logic" and are a little more like "Fat Tony."  We are not so blinded by what we supposedly "know" that we do not see the obvious.  It is scary stuff though.  It really makes me thankful that I have a small amount invested in something other than the dollar.  

YES THAT IS A MUST READ.  THANKS.

Now I stop shouting...

In the comments at the bottom of this article was this: 
I do not think the author of this even knows about BTC.  How much more valuable will BTC be because of this?  It makes me want to buy more than the small amount I already have for sure.  It solves one of the biggest problems we have with the dollar. 

Don't kid yourself I also have some gold (though I dumped my silver last year, since it was dropping like a fly) but they are just (crappier sorts of "bulk"-commodity) Mediums of Savings not day to day Mediums of Labour-Resource Exchange.


Adam Smith noted that at the core of the mercantile system (he largely opposed for populist reasons) was the "popular folly of confusing wealth with money," bullion was much the same as many other rarer (savings) commodities, most of which (diamonds he exampled) were far superior to it.

A wealth is too much of some commodity-thing, a money is what the prime resources of people are rewarded with for their labour's worths.

I say diamonds are actually worthless, actually as common and valueless as sea shells if it were not for the DeBoers Monopoly who artificially engineer the phoney "shortage" of them, and gold is also much like that too.

Fine arts, antiques and collectables are far superior, as are emeralds and really rare metals like platinum and palladium (and rare earths).

You refute your own hypothesis, since Adam Smith far predated the diamond DeBeers monopoly.

Gonna get the "Extra Large" popcorn for this one...

I don't think so, in Adam Smith's (post Mercantile-Monopolist) time a "Medium of Savings" diamond was still like a rare ruby or emerald, very few and far between. The fascist demon Rhode's enslavement of most of Africa for the white racist eugenic Northern European Tory-Trotskyite gold Pharaohs and his discovery and monopolization of the massive diamond-mineral commodities there was an 18-19th century phenomenon. Fortunately this most evil and vile inhuman demon was unable to do the same to gold, but today DeBeers has such a glut of now near-worthless diamonds, that they have to bury most of them again...

Speaking of Black Swan" events, if, for instance, by some circumstance unknown some Sherpas caused a rock slide avalanche on Mount Everest that broke away the top 3 feet of rock all around it to reveal that it was really, actually a colossal mountain of gold, what then? Would we have to all concede that the Sherpas, by capricious advantage of occasionally combatting their laziness alone, are "obviously" now the world's "master race" worth "more" than all the labours of the rest of all of we could ever dream of being?

The gold savings-commodity was obsolete as a money (Medium of Labour-Resource Exchange) before the first century in 48 BC, it just took until the 17th century for it to finally roll over on to it's deathbed.  With advanced new counter-party alone-owned and exchange-valued Secure Credit Swap Derivative currencies like Bitcoin it is now irrelevant save as a third rate collectable-commodity.

In fact I think most national-socialist economic Mediums of Labour-Resource Exchange currencies will also soon have to follow our new digital-derivative Funded-Credit Swap model.

Other than plants, animals, air, dirt and water, the fruits of the labours of humans are the only Prime economic Resource, and a "money" is an expression of that alone. Everything else is an inanimate "commodity".

I wonder same about religions... Must be someway related...

Gold has some value, for some special applications, but other than that...

We used to have e-gold but the Feds shut it down for anti-money laundering violations--and now FinCEN is targeting Bitcoin.  I've been warning about this for a while now.

I separated out the bit of your prose with truly colorful phrases.  Are there other evil and vile inhuman demons we should be on the watch for?

Got it!

Violence
Envy
Greed

VEG

Vegans!!!!

The root of all evil.

I knew it.

This Mint Working Stock thing is like a 7 year "itch" now...

I wouldn't be surprised if it was XXXXX rated

Its only a matter of time before it`s all unravelled and then physical Gold can not be brought at any price.
http://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/why-there-may-be-a-lot-less-gold-than-we-realize (http://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/why-there-may-be-a-lot-less-gold-than-we-realize)

Here's the problem with the scenario described in the article.  The suggestion is made that the "gold is leased out", and that this means it was physically removed from the Fed vault and placed in the hands of a third party, who paid the Fed some amount of money.  There is not anything basically wrong with this UNLESS....

It's Germany's gold, or gold held on behalf of some other person or party.  Then the fiduciary duties have been broken.  At that point you have crime, and any who participate in covering it up, more crime.

Think about it.  It's no different than if you had something in a safe deposit box, and the bank decided to use it for their own profit.  Then you went to open the safe deposit box, and they refused to let you.

Except that the banks are "too big to charge", as that would damage the economy, so they are essentially free to do what they want.

No proxy needed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHTuP3AwPcU

It's interesting to note for posterity here, that it was the bankster's invention of the Over the Counter (OTC) Derivative known as a (unfunded) Credit Default Swap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000), deeply involved in gold and silver (and any market's) price fixing, that is the genesis of the "Bitcoin Funded Credit Swap" OTC "derivative" that we are all now using every day to "get around" them.

This is (sort of) how a Bitcoin works: you "fund" the credit/loss of the guy who bought (funded it's prior owner) and sold it to you, and the next (funder/) owner of it "swaps" you, your (funded) credit/loss on it. A Bitcoin "counter-party financial instrument" is technically a "deregulated" (thanks to the banksters corrupt influence on the law-contrivers that they own)  straight-up, simple and honest "fCS" or funded Credit Swap.

An unfunded "Credit Default Swap" (uCDS) is an instrument that implies an "unfunded or Defaulted Credit Loss". One way JP Morgan Chase, HSBC and Goldman Sachs use them is so that they each know ahead of time "how much to lose", naked short-selling something like silver contracts when it is their (appointed) turn to kill a price for their uCDS partner. The other "counter-party partner" then "swaps" them the "defaulted-credit loss" while it, knowing their targeted "bottom-time", synchronously has the "good luck" (LOL) to buy up the "bargains", (with fresh money) also stealing from all the small investors who "stopped losses" while their uCDS partner was killing a particular market for them, and makes profits (minus the swap) that it keeps.  In other words, the "money" they do it with is an unfunded "defaulted credit" that never existed on either's books, they just swap the predetermined losses back and forth through their "Over the (back) Counter" uCDS derivative contracts.  

The uCDS is a bookkeeping-swap loophole that, when "traded" (swapped) at 3:59 PM wipes your (day's) loss off your books and creates a temporary next-day loss for your counter-party partner which is wiped off by it again the next day, and so on..



LOL  this is all so dated. NONE of ANY gold is in Ft Knox, it has all been stolen (rented out under authority of politicians they owned and then criminally sold) long ago by the private Federal Reserve Printing Company banksters. Evidence mounts that as many as 1.5 million 400-oz gold bars were replaced at Fort Knox during the Clinton Admin with specially ordered custom thin-sized-to-gold tungsten blank-bars which were then covered by CIA Mafia "Black Ops" criminals with a thin gold plate. Apparently even these forgeries have now found their ways into the holdings of SPDR Gold Trust (GLD).

Gld ETF Warning, Tungsten Filled Fake Gold Bars
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14996.html

And so much for this thread.

kinda a banking thing, goes back to the Medici vs. Papal Banks. The Spanish then wanting a place next to the sun easy luck by finding and raping South Americas deposits.
The Brits had their own way by siphoning off the Papal ad Spanish gold that came to close to their boarders.
Also being rather poor compared to other countries at the time it could slaughter its population in the industrial age (1700) Germany was still too catholic to be modernization by large scale industry. Only the threat of starvation and threat of defeat by French and Russian and Austro-Hungarian military caused their rapid advancement and "thing" with perfection in production. Basically the past 5000 years have been about robbing your neighbor or enslaving whatever peoples you could to produce goods with them or from the land and resources they owned.
USA by Freemason / rotschlid were more crative made their fortune with debt, printing paper and lying about what they owned.

Despite the fact that tungsten (used for Edison/incandescent light bulb filaments) was still unheard-of, the metal-smiths of old always knew that once depositors dropped off their burdensome gold for fancy cheaper and handier coin or paper "(reserve) deposit receipt notes" they hardly ever wanted the damned stuff back, unless they were moving away.


The simple fact is that a "money" need only be a fungible and widely respected (national-socialist-economic in olden days) Medium of Work-Resource Exchange that is trusted by it's "Prime Resource" exchanging counter-parties. What it is (a Token of the "Prime" Work-Resources Exchanged) is what it is, there is no rational reason (other than some pre-barter condition) for it to ALSO BE ANYTHING ELSE WHICH IT IS NOT!

If a working entrepreneur wished to be compensated in eggs, potatoes, bananas, car tires, tool sheds or 3D HDTVs that condition could surely be arranged, but that would not make those (likely fungible) commodities a spendable Medium of Work-Resource Exchange with a "currency" of exchange-value you would call "money".