Bitcoin Forum

0pticoin is an experimental Litecoin branch and it is intended to be a "sandbox" environment to test building my first alt-coin and is a pre-cursor to my final intended product - the "Advanced Parallel Crypto eXchange System (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175875.0)" (APCXS).

As this is my first build of a new coin there aren't any ground-breaking code changes and borrows most of it's existing code from Litecoin, SmallChange and JunkCoin, but new features will be added as I develop them to test viability and optimize final settings for release of APCXS.

Along the way, changes in the code may force me to create new forks of 0pticoin at which time I will release them as their own coins with their own changes and optimized settings until I have reached my final intended product which will then be released as APCXS.

The features for version 1 of 0pticoin are:

• ZERO pre-mine (Genesis block mined on testnet)
• rpcport = 9707
• listen = 9708
• testnet = 19708
• Maximum coins: 75,000,000
• Block target: 90 seconds
• difficulty re-target: once every ~30 minutes

Increased rewards for the first week:

• Day 1: 100 0TC per block
• Day 2: 50 0TC per block
• Days 3 & 4: 25 0TC per block
• Days 4 - 7: 10 0TC per block

• No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

• Rewards are cut in half every 700,800 blocks.
• Every block has a 1% chance to generate x2 block reward and a 0.01% chance to generate x5 block reward.
• Initial difficulty will be ~0.25

• Proof of Stake implementation
• [Allow mining at decreased difficulty if time since last block is greater than "x" minutes

Release Date: May 8, 2013 @ 6pm GMT (server time)

Source: TBA
Linux: TBA
Windows Binary: TBA[/list]




UPDATE:
Alright, this project is going to require a bit more time. The scope of this project has become bigger than I originally expected.

I am working now with a small team of IRL friends and based on the past week's progress, we expect to be ready within the next month but I do not want to set a deadline for fear of missing it again, I do not want to ruin this project entirely by continuously giving false deadlines.

If any experienced C++ programmers want to join our team we would happy to welcome you on board (no cut/paste programmers please).

We thank you for your patience and we apologize for the inconvenience (again).

too much suspense, i hope you fail.

now we are doing pre-announcement, it's good. Give small fishes the executables first, before the big fishes jump in. lol

Difficulty retarget of 30 minutes will cause a lot of the same problems that terracoin had. I wouldn't recommend it.

Is it not possibe to increase the retarget interval as time passes.

As a new coin there will be huge jumps in hashrate so it needs to change quickly, as the days go by and it becomes more stable the time increases.

So it starts at 30 minutes, after a day 60 mins, a week 200 etc etc...

Also starting the name with an '0' or 'O' makes it look confusing. 100 0TC IMHO

Let's see! :)

Why hello there.

  ;D Goodluck!

Selling all the FTCs to buy a hard disk to store all the clients.

The forum server I would guess

c4n10 can you give a time with the help of http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ ?

What is the starting difficulty?

This is how a client is SUPPOSED to be announced, so anyone who is interested has a fair chance at downloading the client the same as everyone else. it's not done for the purpose of "suspense".


Well, actually everyone will be receiving availability to the files at the same time, but I think I get what you are saying   :)


What do you think would be a better retarget time...? I thought faster re-targets would be most desirable to keep the difficulty appropriate in cases of wild upswings/downswings in network hashing power...?


I'm not sure if it is possible to change the retarget interval without forcing a new fork of the blockchain, I will look more closely at the code and spend some time reading about retarget intervals and their advantages/disadvantages on current clients and decide what to do from there...

I chose the '0' to not only give the name/address scheme a little of it's own originality but also as a symbol of the coin's status as pre-cursor (basically an alpha release) to APCXS.

I'm not opposed to suggestions on a new name/address scheme...


Thanks!!!


I will consider this as well. I currently have the difficulty set at:



Even though it is a test coin I want to be able to test it under real mining/usage conditions so that when APCXS releases I can know what to expect on a full-scale.

The coin is labeled as a test coin, but I fully intend for people to use it and mine it. I want to know what it's flaws and draw-backs are in a real-world application.

Bitcoin was released as a beta application and over time grew into something worth mining. 0pticoin while being a beta application on it's way to becoming APCXS may have it's own real-world potential in some real-world applications, I will never know until it is tested.

But my main reason for doing a full release of a "sandbox" coin is to see how it responds when used in real-world applications on a full-scale.



Bitcointalk's server


May 8, 2013 @ 6pm GMT

I think you should wait a "ready to mine pool" to realease the coin. I guarantee it could be succesfull.

I will try to set up a p2pool. :) I hope it isn't such a PITA like CHNcoin..

why not release it with a crazy difficulty at the beginning,
then such bitbar-scams will not happen. in fact dificulty will go down if needed,
remember satoshi took days just to mine the genesis block, you should target at least that kind of difficulty,
look, just because the coin will generate blocks every 90 seconds doesn't mean the first days it has to generate blocks every 90 seconds,
could be a fair innovation.

LOL guys. Just because you were so late with BitBars you are now QQing.. Just realize that BitBar isn't a scam, but the most innovative alt coin out of the new ones.

I'm actually planning to have a pool/forum/exchange all on a site somewhere which should be up in the next week or two. In the meantime, I expect that the p2pool gurus and others who may be interested in the coin will build their own pools.

With 3 days between now and the release, there are likely to be one or two pools available on the day of release.
Ah, here's one now, lol! Can you tell me what specifically was difficult about setting up p2pool for CHNcoin...? If you can let me know I will do best to help avoid those difficulties.


It is unlikely that I will ever just "give up" on the coin. But in the event for some reason I do and I abandon the project entirely, if the coin is worthy of standing on it's own virtues at that point then I believe it will survive due to it's open-source nature as I suspect the community at large would pick up it's development. But I am very unlikely to give up on it's development, I plan for this to be the staging platform for new features before I add them to other currencies I intend to develop for niche purposes. This will be an active and on-going project.

I'm also quite certain that I won't have to do it all alone as the source will be hosted on my github (the source available on my git now is not current and nor will it be until the coin's final release, I will push the source from my linux box at 6pm GMT on May 8) and I'm sure the community members at large who are interested will have their own pull/commit requests to add.

And I haven't changed much for the initial release because the initial challenge was just compile my own fork successfully to familiarize myself with the process of creating a new coin (baby steps). Now I will continue to add/edit the source code to familiarize myself with the code intimately and learning over time how both the code and the client/network itself respond to various settings.

Bitcoin isn't in final release, it's still in development and people use it and mine it, I'm basically doing the same thing but using this client as a staging platform to test new features for my other projects.

And I would like to see this coin traded, I have no problems with people selling/trading the coin, it's the only way to test my chosen block times, re-target times, potential issues with new features in an exchange environment when I implement them. This is why I will host my own pool/exchange/development-forum somewhere so those who are interested can mine it, trade it and make dev suggestions, hold discussions, etc...

I don't see any reason why a coin shouldn't be able to be traded, used and mined while it's still under development, EVERY other coin available is still under development, lol...


Well, the starting difficulty I've chosen is already higher than litecoin, junkcoin, smallchange and the other litecoin alts I've seen.

With a starting higher difficulty and a well thought out difficulty re-target algorithm (I will likely add upper/lower limits to the amount the difficulty can adjust each re-target period and possibly change the actual re-target interval itself) I believe the coin will start with a very stable network and I believe it will hold in stability as the network fluctuates.

And if Satoshi generated his genesis block the same way I did then it wouldn't have taken him 6 days, it would have taken him an hour. I'm not sure if he used the same method as me (as suggested per sacarlson's multicoin github), but I believe it is a distinct possibility.


Thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look/read.


I don't see BitBar as sticking around for the long-term personally, but if that's your chosen client I wish you luck with it.

The huge orphans rate for everyone. They though that the P2Pool OPs (me included) were scammers, because they didn't get coins. But in reality they just got orphans..

If your intent is to actually test, then you should do what we did at Freicoin, make self-terminating binaries (a week or so) which you utilize within your development group and do not promote for mass usage.  This keeps potentially buggy code out of the hands of unsuspecting users and prevents polluting the public space with testing that really has no business their.  If you have some elaborate plan for future developments you don't want your early experiments crowding you out.

Also you seem to be including a lot of 'gimmicks' to promote early miners, inflated early mining, random double and quintuple rewards, these just smell bad and reduce my confidence in it.

Ah, well CHNCoin used Litecoin's starting difficulty of:


which seems to be what pretty much everyone else has been using as well.

Bitcoin's source has the starting diff as:


The algo I am currently using is:



So, I hope (in theory) we should be able to skip the whole 10 blocks/sec phase of the release.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175875.0

This is hardly a scam coin. This is the beginning of a client which will see much development and many changes as I use it as a stepping stone for testing new features for other coins intended for more customized (niche) purposes as well as APCXS.

Why don't you let the first 1k Blocks unpaid? :)
So everyone starts mining and everyone has the same chances.

Smallchange implemented this idea, and it worked out pretty well. Starting difficulty should also be adjusted to something like the above.

Again, I want to test the client in a real-world environment under real-world network stress. All the clients currently available have "potentially buggy code" as they are all considered to be in "beta" as they are all currently still in development and have not reached a "final release" state.

Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I am re-considering the early adoption bonuses. I originally intended for them to increase the coin's initial popularity to not only test the released re-target algorithm to wild swings, but to help gain network hashing speed to decrease the likelihood of 51% attack on the network by an ltc mining farm owner, but I am putting some thought/reading into other ways to enhance the network's security.


I might do that as well, I had considered doing it when I was editing that part of the code but with the increased starting difficulty it may not be necessary. But I may do it anyway just to give everyone time to get the client downloaded, installed and configured and to also allow the community some time to review the code before rewards begin being distributed.

Is there a way to calculate what the starting difficulty *should* be, based on previous initial mining interest (/q/nethash) and a target starting block interval (i.e. 1 block / 15 sec?) Something like that (with projected block interval clearly stated in launch) would be a reasonably fair launch.

Considering the fact that this is targeted to be CPU mined, I'd reduce that value (10) considerably. To something below 1 (given the GPU/CPU scrypt efficiency ratio)

NVM, wrong coin. There are so many coins that I lost track.

Technically though you don't really want such a high starting difficulty if you're hoping for at least some initial interest/hype. Or otherwise make the difficulty adjusting algorithm comparably aggressive. Don't really want to see something like what Terracoin experienced some weeks ago.

Each shift represents *2 or /2. It sounds close but isn't that close. But why am I writing someone who will shout through this forum what a big scam this coin is.

Well, the litecoin alts coins now have been starting with "~uint256(0) >> 20" and each increment in this number doubles the difficulty (if I am understanding it correctly) and I am using "~uint256(0) >> 30".

I will test this setting on the testnet and adjust it until it puts out what I believe to be a fair starting difficulty.


Well, it's hard to project what initial interest will be in any given client which is why we have the difficulty re-targeting algorithm to adjust the difficulty based on the "interest" being applied.

The best solution would be a proper re-targeting algorithm which I will be working on over the next few days.


I'm aiming to keep the starting difficulty in a range that is reasonable for mining by everyone. From there I am going to attempt to come up with a re-targeting algorithm that will respond rapidly and maintain flexibility without allowing enough room in flexibility to encourage difficulty attacks by miners with ltc mining farms and botnets.

This looks interesting.  I like to idea of incorporating the random block reward from Junkcoin.   

>> 30 is what I guessed would at least make the initial blocks have enoguh seconds between them that we would be able to start to sell by how much we really needed to shift it for a reasonable starting difficulty.

I did not realise though that bitcoin had >> 32 at start. That was so low than a single CPU in those days could mine it.

So >> 30 one CPU could probably mine it at four times the target speed!

So probably at least >> 32 like bitcoin is needed for sure and realistically a few more shifts too to make up for the fact we have multi-core machines now and GPUs and so on.

From the sound if it litecoin started this whole premine-publicly-at-launch scam, there is no good reason for litecoin's starting difficulty to be less than bitcoin's, in fact they should have made it higher than bitcoin's not lower, to account for improvements in hardware but also to account for there being more than one or two or three people who would mine it.

So litecoin seems to be the originator of the whole scammy-launch crap.

The random rewards is a whole can of worms too.

If the entire random number sequence pre-determined from launch so everyone can compute exactly which blocks will be "lucky" ?

Or is hash of previous lbock or some such thing used?

Each has its own exploits and problems.

Then the high rewards at the start. That is total scam-premining right there. You are basically trying to recruit cohorts to collude with you in pre-mining the coin. Wherever you initially announce it is the den of the crooks who collude with you in pre-mining the coin,

About it being "just a test", we did that with GRouPcoin. People's motivation to participate in the "test" is they get to fill their test-character's test-wallet with coins. When you are done using the chain for your tests, they are left with rich characters well equipped to play whatsoever games characters equipped with lots of coins to play. The coin continues to be used by players to this very day, and they expect it to ultimately serve as a 1000-devcoin coin if only in their games.

So yeah, you can call it a test all you want, but if people invest electricity and attention and time in something don't expect them to just throw all that electricity and attention and time away. It is valuable and even if you choose not to continue to value it so what, walk away if you insist but don't take players' game-currency out of their game-currency wallets once they have some.

Finally, I built testnet-based coins for a bunch of players, and it turned out they would not run as main nets, because their genesis blocks were not difficult enoiugh. Because testnet has 1/16 the difficulty of main net, thus its genesis block was rejected from the outset by the difficulty checker.

So, far from serving as a way to test a blackchain before deploying that blockchain as a main instead of test blockchain, it turned out they were locked in to having to stay with the testnet side of the code instead of the main net side of the code.

(I had made them dual use clients, by replacing bitcoin's testnet with their custom currency, so the same client could be used to run either bitcoin or their custom currency, simply by using the -testnet switch to swich to their custom currency.)

-MarkM-

What is this "APCXS" and why should I participate in this beta test?

I will experiment with the starting diff algo and post back what I come up with.

nHeight is used as the seed for random number generation.

And I believe I will remove the first week mining rewards because I agree with what has been said in this thread. I am still going to leave the random chances for increased block rewards as they are small chances and with them being x2 and x5 the base reward of 5 it's not giving out extravagant amounts at frequent intervals but rather a smaller bonus on an infrequent basis.


I linked to the official dev thread for APCXS earlier in this thread,  I will add the link to the OP.

Here it is again anyway: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175875.0

As far as why you should participate is for you to decide. Some possible reasons are:

1. Over time as I add different features for testing before using in other clients there is no telling what this specific chain may evolve into. It may be entertaining to watch.

2. As this coin progresses and gains features, it may become more desirable than other alts, especially as initial interest in the current pump/dump coins dies off and people look for other clients to try. The coin may hold some real-world value at some point as it evolves.

3. If APCXS or any of my other alts I intend to develop become widely adopted then 0pticoin may become highly coveted as that client's pre-cursor.

4. For the lulz.

These are just a few suggestions, I'm sure there are others...

Okay, so the entire future of block rewards is pre-determined at launch.

As soon as the source code is released, everyone / anyone can compute all the block rewards block by block into the future.

So it is not really "random" in an expectation sense, it is merely an announced in the code at launch pre-determined sequence of rewards well known to all miners so they can plan in advance which blocks to hop to this chain for and which to leave to the peons.

It has a so called "random distribution" in a statistical sense maybe, but it is totally scheduled in advance, you mightt as well include a list of the first million blocks' rewards with the package to save others the trouble of generating the list themselves.

-MarkM-

Too much coin

...?

nHeight will vary from block to block depending ont he tx's/info contained in each block and when seeded into the random number generation will generate a COMPLETELY random number each time...

Height is a simple incremented number on each block, it is not random.

You just blew all credibility at being able to develop this or any coin as you don't know how BTC works.  I am labeling you a wannabee programmer and advising you to go spend a year or three learning the basics and playing on test net, and advising everyone else to avoid your coin/s until such time as you can demonstrate real understanding.

Ok, clearly you missed this entire thread where I said this is my first time forking a coin, it is intended to be for experimental/learning purposes so that I can learn the process of dev'ing a new coin and familiarizing myself with the code and how it works.

I don't really care what your opinion of me or my coin is at this point as I am just starting out and the coin is not intended to be a ready-out-of-the-box-final-release version, it is intended to be my playground as I learn and experiment with new code implementations.

Label me whatever you want, I could care less.

UPDATE:

Changed the seed for random number generation from nHeight to hashMerkleRoot which will ALWAYS be random as IT is randomly generated by the tx info contained in the block (this is what I mistakenly thought "nHeight" was).

Changed the seed for random number generation from nHeight to nTime. I was originally going to use hashMerkleRoot for the seed but there were compatibility issues between using "uint256" and "unsigned int" together. nTime should suffice for random number generation.

Guys, is it worth to mine this shitCoin?

I lol'd

mark

how exactly have you mined without any IPs/Wallet?!

mark....so many coins these days

if you want to be really fair, you can supply a guide for the people who doesn't know how to solo mine, that way people can start creating pools, when all people can solo mine in the meanwhile...

~

or to be really fair.  premine the coin and then give those coins to the people who cry the most about how unfair the coin is.

1 day before release everything is still TBA.

Seems legit

thats a good option, please can you mine some for me?
LOL
i know how to solo mine, but each time more people has interest, and you will see tons of post asking how to solo mine "this" coin.

Besides, i'm really interest in try your experiment, is that a bad thing?

Not all the people is judging you, and fighting you... i like your idea.

I also want to ask, what would be the initial diff? thanks

~

Are we there yet?

Still another 24 hours man before it's released.

How does it calculate the chance for x2/x5 block rewards?

I may just recompile it and give myself a 100% chance

seems to be legit considering all the recent updates...

Just so you guys know, anyone who is mining on the client currently on my github, that code is outdated.

I have made changes which are not reflected in the code on my github and when I release the coin tomorrow it will be released with a different genesis block. The genesis block in the code now was for testing purposes only. Any coins mined now will not be compatible with the new client.

simply base it off last blocks hash? or last 5 blocks? it's not like there's gonana be a rand()%100 == 1

So, ... I heard 0pticoin is the new yacoin?  ;D

Let's be honest, most of the people on the forums would be people you'd want to avoid AFK. Great response and best of luck with your test.

The OP should support the recent tradition - postpone this release and then just disappear...

hahaha

Why advertise on Bitcointalk? Much cheaper to just 'announce' a coin, post your advertising to the post footer and in a link and watch the views and clicks roll in...

The majority of those people who announce a coin, postpone it and then disappear are people who thought "Oh, I should make my own coin, how hard could it be, just make a couple edits here and there to this code, shouldn't be too hard".

They edit the code, make their announcement and then realize they have no idea how to create the genesis block, can't find the answers anywhere, no one will help them and so they give up.

I already successfully created my own trial genesis block (which is really the hardest part IMHO) before I made my announcement.

The rest now is editing/adding code for my desired features (which is the easy part).

Huh...? Who's advertising...?

Who will mine these blocks then?

Probably the same people who mined the first 17,280 blocks with no reward when SmallChange was released...

Everyone will mine these block for testing their miners.

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...

UPDATE:

Updated description with initial starting difficulty which will be ~0.25

Unfortunately , I see this as an issue as well.

As for testing miners, why?. Other then changing a port (either in the miner or in the daemon config) or maybe an IP address if pool mining, all other settings will stay the same.

Do not get me wrong, I understand what the OP is trying to do, the problem with his solution is simple. It costs money to mine.

For example, to power up my 3 rigs, requires a little over 2000 watts of power.

I am sure some miners will be charitable and donate their electrical costs for the first 1000 blocks, maybe after looking more closely at the project I might even do that.

However, what do you think the vast majority of miners are going to do?

Wait till block 999 and fire up, meaning the "testing" of the first 999 blocks will be pretty much invalid.


I guess if the true goal is to get everybody on board at the same time, it might work, but it depends on how fast the first 1000 blocks are mined.

Basically I think the way to spot a BS pump-and-dump alt is if the only change in the clone is that they mucked with block generation (time/amount/etc).

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... ::)

It would probably make more sense to have the starting difficulty high enough that it will take about a day to mine the first block if only a few people get aboard, but let the rewards start anyway so come the end of the first day if only a few people did get aboard one of them would get a reward.

Maybe seeing osmeone did get a reward might bring more miners aboard, so maybe more than one block would get solved the second day, meanwhile more people would at least become aware that the launch has begun.

By the third day anyone who happened to have the first two days be their equivalent of a weekend, or happen to co-incide with a multiple shift super heavy set of work hours, might hear about the launch for the first time.

By the end of the first week maybe enough people will be aboard that blocks will be getting solved not a whole lot slower than their target time.

Whenever some big farm does jump on the chain though, blocks are going to come really really fast unless by then the difficulty is still pretty darn high.

You will need one of the good adaptive-difficulty routines too, not one of the ones that just make the difficulty rollercoaster exploit faster and easier and maybe also more effective.

Merged mining might help though, especially since you seem to be planning a bunch of blockchains; they might as well all be mined together, yes? So merged mining probably makes a lot of sense for this project.

-MarkM-

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. It's probably MinCoin :)
Check out the blockchain, what a clusterfuck of scammyness. First pre-mine was at the rate of 24.000 coins in 7 miutes @ 500 block reward. Introduced @ 2 coins per block with 1.5 diff.

Solid 'development' effort.

While you have some valid points, I believe you should remember the experimental nature behind *all* of these coins. Recently, it seems, people have lost their heads. At least c4n10 has a plan, and it's an interesting one at that.... I'm watching and probably mining this, just like MC2/netcoin.


Take note: he is making the experimental nature pretty damn clear when other coins (ahem, trc, mincoin) had/have clear flaws that anyone with a basic understanding could spot from the start. Opticoin also appears to be one of the fairest launches of late. It's time for you children to scrutinize what exactly makes any cryptocurrency valuable. Hint: it isn't imbalanced 'scarcity', especially without any unique utility. 

Seems like an interesting experiment. Since this alt-coin actually aims at trying to solve something, I will help mining.

Seriously most other alt-coins just clones or trying to solve problems that don't exist or in a very wrong way.

Yes, it does cost money to mine, but I'm pretty sure 1,000 blocks (one day) of no rewards isn't exactly going to break the bank. People mined 17,280 blocks with no reward when smallchange came out, I'm asking for MUCH less.

And you would be surprised how many people might actually NEED that time to test their miners. I always see the same thing at EVERY coin release, the coin comes out, people start mining it and a couple thousand blocks in people start asking "how do I solo mine, I have never been able to figure out solo mining for any coin" or "this is my first time mining a coin, how do I set this up". This is my main concern, I want everyone to have the same equal chance to start earning rewards at the same time (even if they need help getting set-up).


Those are just the starting changes. This coin is going to see a lot of VASTLY different changes over it's lifespan.

The main reason I am starting with basic changes is if I release it on day one and it has issues every edit/addition to the code I have made might need to be reviewed and scrutinized. It's much easier to start with something basic, release it and add features over time and address issues as they pop-up rather than making a whole bunch of experimental changes and then having to dig through all of them if there is an issue after release.

mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

Don't forget to start with checkpoints (could already be in the code); there's a high chance (from my experience) that a pool will end up with >51% during the opening week.

I know right? Putting my poor nvidia cards up early for nothing just to watch the dif jump 10 fold in a matter of hours...for no reward.

Could you explain how to solo mine? I've never been able to get it running before.

maybe learn mining on testnet?

I have a coin named after me? I, I, I don't know what to say. I've sworn off alts, but how can I not mine this gem?

Look, I'm trying to release a product that is fair to all who wish to use it. If you have an issue, address it, but there's no need to be an asshole about it when I'm doing these things to try and be equally fair to all involved.

If people are worried about mining farms, then I can borrow an idea from YAC which will prevent gpu mining until someone creates a gpu miner capable of mining the altered scrypt algo, but eventually gpu miners WILL be able to mine this coin, it is inevitable.

Also, how would YOU be giving ME a free ride...? I am not being paid to dev this coin nor am I the owner of some massive mining farm. The best I can do at scrypt mining is 350 KH/s with my 5870 which is laughable in comparison to the majority of miners out there, I am not benefiting in some huge way by dev'ing this coin for free and being subjected to the same mining conditions as everyone else.


I have checkpoints.cpp but not really sure what I would put in there pre-release aside from the genesis block since there is no pre-mine...


Ok, think about this:

I release the client with rewards from block 1. Large hashrate miners jump on immediately and your nvidia card sees nothing but orphans/rejects because the large hashrate miners are on raping it while it is at a lower difficulty, how are you benefiting in this situation...?


I will post detailed instructions for solo mining here when I release the client.


ROFLMAO, not exactly my intention, but I can pretend it was   :D

Anyone who releases a coin at 0 difficulty at this point deserves to be kicked in the nuts.

That is why initial difficulty will be ~0.25 which at 350KH/s would be finding 1 block/hour.

I chose this difficulty in hopes it would be high enough to keep mining farms from raping it while keeping it low enough that cpu miners can still mine it.

watching

AAARRRHHH i do believe that i have addressed it!
maybe if you re-read it a couple of times you may get it!

My point wasn't that you hadn't addressed your issue, my point was that you were being an asshole while addressing your issue.

I understand what you are saying and I have already addressed your issue (maybe if you re-read my answer a couple of times you may get it!).

I'm working right now on finding a solution to make the coin as fair as possible.

If I borrow YAC's idea and alter the scrypt algo then it won't be minable by GPU until someone devs a new gpu miner for the altered algo, but the coin will still be subject to users with cpu botnets.

If I have to, I will run with this solution for release, but I am looking for a better alternative, maybe I can limit the number of shares accepted by the client during "x" amount of time proportional to the current difficulty rating so that while difficulty is low users with high hashrates will be limited on how many blocks per "x" amount of time they can find and the number of submitable shares (findable blocks per "x" amount of time) will grow proportionally with the network hashrate/difficulty.

Well if you want to be fair different blar blar blar
You could make the first 20,000 shares/blocks mature as a investment i don't know maybe it takes 30 days to mature but they are worth more to start with [500 block instead of 50 block hell i don't know just guessing here] , you will get people that want it to work [ yes i am one of those people but as you put it a asshole as well :) ]

Hmmm, this is an interesting idea but really this is just benefiting early adopters and has no real value past the initial launch period other than to quickly fill hoarder's wallets so they can have thousands of coins to dump a month down the road.

My intention is to avoid hoarders accumulating thousands of coins in the first two days (which is why I have low block rewards and an increased starting difficulty) to help prevent market manipulation by users with ungodly amounts of coin.

Where are popcorn gifs as with YACoin?

You cannot stop early adopters getting more coin than those who wait until it has been excepted as a ligiet coin on the exchanges and mining pools. So you really need the early adopters to make it work or to build interest from mining pools and exchanges.

ok so having them all mature at the same time might let to a pump and dump in month well 2 things with that the first is it would have to be on a exchange first for this to happen, second who say they all have to mature in 30 days just a idea, ideas evolve make the blocks of random size the smaller the block say 100 coin takes 2 weeks to mature up to 500 coins that take 6 weeks to mature. You could make it last like this for a week as people will know that they have coins coming for there time and effort.

I wonder how others would view this type of idea????

The high starting difficulty addresses nothing. Large gpu power can still hoard coins if they choose as they command large percentage of hash power. Low difficulty due to latency issues might give advantage to some solo miners with better connection and most importantly they can solo min at low difficulty. At high difficulty when say 1 to 3 gpu hash take more than 30 min ( re-target value) to solve block they are likely to get many many stales  - block solved in 31 min will be at lower diff than current and hence rejected.

I would start at lowest difficulty.

First time miners:

If you want to get a head start on setting up for solo mining, just set up for any of the scrypt coins (LTC,NVC,FTC,BBQ,BTB,CHNcoin) tonight using any one of many guides.

Here are a couple to get you started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.0
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.0)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83371.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83371.0)

With new coins often times the blocks are being found so fast that directly connecting to the daemon to mine will result in alot of stale work.

I posted a guide on setting up a private pushpool to use long poll to avoid that issue. The guide is for FTC, but other then port numbers, which I normally just set in the daemon config. to an easy to remember number, set up is the same for all scrypt based coins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178286.msg1867412#msg1867412 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178286.msg1867412#msg1867412)


Unless the ports are being changed with the final code (and even if they are, I change it to an easy number anyway), setting up either way will have you ready for tomorrow.

cool :)

If needed I can turn on a couple of test net daemons on cryptocoinexplorer for whatever coins that are wanted.

This will allow new miners to see blocks being found...etc

maybe one for ftc? :D

I can't stop early adopters from gaining more coins than those who aren't but I don't need to encourage early adopter exploitation either. Just because early adopters are going to get more coins by mining at a lower difficulty doesn't mean I should add to the problem by also increasing the rewards for those low difficulty blocks.

As mentioned earlier, there WILL be an exchange, pool and forum for these coins. I am in the process of dev'ing the site where they will be hosted right now and expect to have all of them available by the end of the month.

I am really not worried about getting people to mine it the first week. There has been plenty of interest expressed already and I think the forum has shown that a coin doesn't need gimmicks to get people to mine it, it seems people will mine just about anything. Bytecoin made absolutely ZERO changes from the original bitcoin code and it took off pretty quickly. Alt's are released on a weekly basis with nothing new, innovative or creative and even the coins that have all sorts of issues and aren't accepted by the mainstream community are still being mined by other people.

The first week/month is not my concern. My concern is keeping the coin viable as time progresses. Increased early adopter rewards are fun for the first week, but in the long run it is almost always detrimental to the coin's overall image as people view it as quick pump-n-dump scam coin that catered to the early adopters (a.k.a. the hoarders).


I am not going to start at lowest difficulty. I will either adjust the scrypt algo so it can not be immediately mined by gpu or I will do what I am trying to work on now which is limit the number of blocks a user can find during "x" amount of time at "y" difficulty. This way users with high hashrates will be limited on the number of blocks they can find at lower difficulties.


Very cool, thank you for providing this.

The port numbers which 0TC will use are mentioned in OP.

rpcport=9707
port=9708
testnet=19708

I will put a test net up for feathercoin and the current code at c4n10 github for 0pticoin.

I am placing theses on one of the old backup VPS for cryptocoinexplorer that I am not using right now.

I will publish IP and quick guide to using a test net when they are up and synced (or with a new chain, doesn't matter as it is just test net)

bookmarking these

Cool if there is a vote on how it is to be done i vote for this if it is possible to implement, it should prevent a 51% attack a little better also

The test daemons are running.

The Feathercoin test net will sync up and there is already activity on it as it was a test net I was using for testing purposes.

The 0pticoin test net is up, however still trying to get the first block so all the clients show synced.

The IP address is 84.200.84.76

To have a client/daemon run in testnet mode either add:

or just add:

Bitcoin was >> 32, not >> 20. Litecoin seems to have been the instigator of the whole "instamining" fad by deliberately lowering the initial difficulty despite the fact the it was obvious they were not likely to only be able to find a handful of fellow miners to help them mine it during its first few days, months, years of life. Basically they started this whole instamining scam that others have taken to even further extremes and basically said "this scam has been pulled before, it is a traditional scam, those scammers did it before me and those others before them" as an "excuse" for doing it.

Also, when litecoin was launched they seem to have actually believed that GPUs would not be applicable. We know now that they are. Plus we also know that any miner who has less than two of them isn't a serious miner, and that is per rig, not total in his entire farm.

So probably initial difficulty needs to be shifted from where bitcoin had it rather than where the scammily-launched litecoin had it. and by enough to account for at least a few dozen miners with at least a few rigs each with at least a few GPUs each, most of those GPUs being more powerful than those people had farms of back when litecoin launched.

Even then the blocks will probably be spawned way faster than target, even with difficulty far too high for CPU miners to compete any coin lately that appears more profitable than others gets massive amounts of hashing power.

You should probably try to make it difficult enough that it will take a whole day per block, because no matter how much hashing you think miners will point at it at launch  it is very likely that sixteen, thirytytwo, sixtyfour or more times as much hashing as you imagine will hit it. Actually maybe 128 or 256 times as much as you imagine seems very likely even.

(Especially since you seem to systematically underestimate the required difficulty setting.)

-MarkM-

So a miner can try numerous possible values of nTime looking for a "lucky" one before wasting time on hashing the block, since there is much less point in solving a normal block than a lucky one so best to first check whether the legal range of nTime you can play with offers a lucky block reward...

-MarkM-

If one block's whatever is the seed for the next block, everyone knows upon publication of a block whether or not the next block will be lucky, thus can all gangbang the chain looking for that lucky block then go back to whatever they normally mine once it is found.

-MarkM-

Yeah that sounds about right.

Giving a whole day of blocks might even lead to the difficulty going lower if the difficulty adustment system is of a kind that can react inside of a single day and few people bother to waste expensive hashing power on zero-reward blocks.

Better would be to try to make justone single first block take all day to mine, because as soon as the big boys arrive even that will let them spam out blocks fast, likely even faster than your target-time.

Hmm even then that means they could decide to heck with it lets get that one day over with, so jump it even if that first block has no reward, just to get to the second block.

Which likely points at a probable answer to why anyone would mine the initial 1000 blocks if they have no rewards...

...The answer seems likely to be "because in five minutes they will have those 1000 blocks done and start reaping rewards", because the amount of hashing power they can muster and the amount you imagine they will point at your chain are wildly out of scale with each other.

-MarkM-

Just mined 20K testnet Feathercoins if you need them for testing :)

Okay so what is your true long-term target time between blocks?

Because no real miner has only one 5870, they are more likely to have 3.5MHash than 350khash, and there are likely to be one-to-a-dozen dozen miners at least. Your one hour per block would be one per 30 seconds so fast that you wouldn't have time to realise it because the next would be 15 seconds and the next 5 to 7.5 seconds.

Then seeing that is it not afterall going to take all day to clear the zero-reward blocks they'll consider throwing some real power at the problem, and it'll be the same old same old many blocks per second all over again. We don't even know how frakking many blocks per second the instamined launches were, just that at a second or less per block 99+% of blocks were orphans... Could the actual rate have been closer to a hundred blocks per second than one block per second?

-MarkM-

This release will be at 4AM AEST.

You need to think of your Australian counterparts, bro.  :'(

Set your alarm.  It's always 4AM somewhere. 

Nods :D Might as well set diff at 0.000001 something :)

How do i do to mine this when its released?
Have cgminer and using .bat file to change the settings. I guess there wount be any pool to connect to...
So what do?

Thanks!

For people who only read the Topic and didn't bother reading the first post:

Bitcoin in beta yet but we use it to buy dollars. Why shouldn't we use 0pticoin for the same?

The simplest solution of all is just to make the reward be based upon the difficulty for solving the block. Perhaps just multiply the current difficulty by a factor of 20 but have a ceiling of whatever you want your maximum coin reward to be.

Example starting difficulty = 0.25 / Maximum reward = 50 0TC

0.25 * 20 = 5 0TC (starting reward)

Difficulty then doubles to 0.5:

0.5 * 20 = 10 0TC

etc....

OK now lets fast forward to difficulty of 4:

4 * 20 = 80 0TC

This is clearly over our ceiling of 50 0TC so we just change the value to 50 0TC instead.

A method such as this would not allow the early adopters to horde a ridiculous amount of 0TC but it would not penalise them for coming on board early either and it's clear from the outset that the reward is based upon the difficulty of solving the block. Of course you could use any calculation you wanted, I'm just throwing an idea that I feel would be better for everyone.

Even if the starting point was set ridiculously low this would still work as long as the starting difficulty not exactly zero otherwise you'd get a divide by zero error.


Even this would work but the initial reward based upon multiplying by a factor of 20 would be 0.00002 0TC :D

I want to apologize to everyone, but I am going to postpone launch for exactly 1 week (May 15 @ 6pm GMT).

The reason for doing this is I am currently working on my previously mentioned idea of attempting to limit blocks which can be submitted during a specified timeframe at a specified difficulty in relation to total network hashrate (this should not only prevent large hashrate miners from raping the coin, but will also help to protect the network from 51% attack by preventing the user from being able to gain 51% control).

Lower hashrate miners should not be affected (other than the ability to be able to actually obtain coins) while higher hashrate miners will only be affected while the difficulty is lower and the network hashrate is smaller. I expect as the difficulty/network hashrate increases that cpu-based miners will probably stray away anyway to whatever is the newest low-difficulty coin at that time.

I am also taking this extra week to finish developing http://crypto-etc.com which is where I will host the exchange, pool and forum. This is also where the client downloads will be hosted (except for the source code which will remain on my github).

And the final reason for postponing this one more week is to add/test more features which I am adding, including:

• Proof of Stake implementation
• Allow mining at decreased difficulty if time since last block is greater than "x" minutes

I am also open to suggestions on other features.

I thank you for your patience and once again I apologize for the inconvenience to those of you who have been watching/waiting for 6pm to roll around, but I promise it will be the worth the wait.

Gutted but I'm glad you are taking the time to get it right, so bravo

Excellent, is this going to be the first coin having and exchange at the first day? How about pools then?

Wise move, well done!

.b

+1

This is the first time I have really an impression that the OP is doing a proper work...

Instead of time based retarget, why not make it dynamic diff retarget like BitBar - that seems to work a lot better at stopping pump and dump miners.

Great news actually!

I was really early in mining YaCoin today. Had 3 machines with 550 KH\s each running, but none of them got more than 1-2 accepted blocks because of some higher hashrate miners joining the network and blocking all low-medium hash miners.. :( So I hope you can find a solution which works for us low hashers aswell!

Good luck! :)

also yac was launched today...


LOL  ???
I guess you have a special miner for gpus...

I appreciate your support! Thank you!


As mentioned earlier there will be a pool on the site at http://crypto-etc.com

But I also suspect that there will be one or two p2pool gurus who will have pools set-up within the first or two after launch (that's the way it usually goes)...


I will indeed. At the time of release there will be linux and windows binaries as well as the source code so people can compile their own as well.


Thank you!


:)


I prefer the time-based re-targeting as it makes the coin more reliable as a currency. If I run with a dynamic re-targeting system confirmation times for transactions wouldn't be as reliable making it not a viable currency to use for goods/services which are extremely time-dependent.


Thank you for your support! I will do my best!


Actually, I don't think there are any gpu miners for YAC yet (unless YAC's creator wrote one that he has not released to the public yet).

The large hashrate miners on YAC right now are probably botnet owners...

Will the release be in an hour? I'm not sure if I understood GMT correctly ;)

No he didn't. Who on earth told you that rubbish?

It was going to be in 2 hours, but I have postponed release for 1 week. I will update the description to reflect this change and the reasoning why.

oh :(

LOL, don't see that one often...

I feel like I might buy a mining rig just for May 15th..

Can you buy a PC with GPU's strong enough to mine from the get go? And in such a case.. could you buy a computer from Best Buy and "rent" it for the week? lol

If anyone is taking pre-orders, PM me. That way we can guarantee you a rate. If you are a trusted member, I can pay before the coin is even released.

Unfortunately I'm going to have surgery on the 15th so I won't be physically available to mine it! :P

OP is one of the few persons who actually learned from the bullshit of the past few weeks and put it into practice. Good Job!

Coincidentally I'll also be going to the hospital on the 15th at 4pm... I doubt I'll be out in time for this either. Poo.

Thanks for a giving a time and date, it makes the project seem more legit too.

Just to clarify, 0pticoin is mainly for your experimenting so to have a smooth release  for your intended coin at a later date?

I skipped half the thread to reply to this. I laughed so hard.

~~~~~~~~~

forum-goer: ehhhhhh, your coin is a huge scam!

Coin Dev: Here, have 50k!

forum-goer: We need to get this shit on an exchange!

~~~~~~~~~

right?

If you did it like that, you could just pre-mine the whole blockchain, maybe 100b coins...

 ::)

Oh yay 24 hours away from the next fail coin.

Postpone it indefinitely, I see nothing of value or innovation here, the OP says this coin is just to 'learn' if that's the case go run it on test-net, you do not launch a coin simply to learn how BTC code works.  The OP makes some reference to some future jargon-filled idea to sound like he has made some kind of innovation but the truth is he has not remotely the skills necessary to do anything of value in Crypto currency as evidence by his total failure to comprehend the criticism leveled so far.  I think all the so called innovation is a smoke screen to distract from a pump and dump coin, his initial proposal was just full of scam-bait.

ok let's mine it :D

It's exactly how it is. The people who cry about premines being "unfair" are envious.
The rational people who do not like a coin being premined just don't buy it and stay indifferent.
Recently Boxman90 demonstrated this when he tried to extort a coin maker (NWO): "If you don't pay me 25.000 Powercoin, I will make a thread about how unfair and unjust your coin is!"
(Ha ha, and extortion / blackmail is fair and just?)

Lol Praxis/NWO-clone, is this still hurting your butt? Get over it.

Do not release your coin tomorrow. It will be just lost in a flood of "crazy"coins, and no one will take 0pticoin seriously. Wait few week until this madness is over.

Does it matter? Its just a test coin.

The madness is just beginning. The kids are getting out for summer, expect a new release daily; maybe more. No one will take opticoin seriously at any time, who cares when it's released.

I am, personally, very excited about this coin. Dev seems competent and the launch looks about as fair as possible with lots and lots of notice.

I will have a public peer node up very shortly after launch that is located in Dallas, TX. It has lots of bandwidth and I'll set it to have like 500 connections (though for elacoin I only ever got like 60 connections). The IP of this node is 96.126.118.229. Feel free to use this IP in your addnode= configs.

And yes I plan to be mining as quickly as I can to help us burn through the 1000 non-profit blocks. I get like $10/day profit mining litecoin so I don't mind donating $10 to help launch this coin.

Are you going to start or what?

6pm

You're timing is kinda far off.

 
Ops ... You are right  ::)

Lol, trolls are everywhere; and they are the first to download and start mining.

I think the value is given by people trusting on coins, so, if you don't like it, do not download it.

I'd like to see the final product coin

Wait another week (or 2) for the release. Nobody will take it serious with all the trollcoins around

Man, how many PWC does NWO pay you, for each ball lick / dick suck you bestow on him?

this
no rush

Will there be a release today?

Hope so, amazon is prepaid

EC2 for a standard scrypt coin?

be careful, you might be forked  ;D

Its a little bit quiet in here

@OP, is there going to be a release?

Wondering the same release today or no op give us a heads up  ::)

if it was released, it would be in 3 hours, right?

Should be a better coin than anything else today :)

what about worldcoin?
both are copy-paste, which one is going to be the worst?

world coin looks really serious, nice homepage etc

It's a cut and paste website just like the coin's code will be.

You can buy this right now an Wal-Mart in the eyecare section.  Opticon

lol ;D

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You do all realise this is an EXPERIMENTAL coin. An experiment, a coin mined in testnet which will help somehow the OP release his final coin at a later date.
Read OP' first post.

what's  EXPERIMENTAL on copy and paste?

Like all coins... My experiment will be to see if I can make some easy cash by mining it.

My clusters are ready!

I just hope this tread doesn't get out of hand like this rest have been getting

OP hasn't posted in here since the postponement has he?

I might throw a couple mhash at it if he actually launches it on time today

Sure be a stale coin for the first how many hours. By that time you missed the boat.

You'll get a few during the orphan stage as long as you have a decent ping

my gmt says 1 hour to go

It is time... where is OP?

He's online now

Let's do it then

It's 5:04pm GMT right now.

Thats daylight saving time.

Which is currently at GMT+1 (BST aka British Summer Time)

May 8, 2013 @ 6pm GMT (server time)

UK = GMT +1 (summer time)

The dude making it is on, he could just answer and say if he's doing it now or in an hour

Wonder will we have another week wait  :P

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

The other website I used lied to me and said right now it's 6:08pm GMT but it's not, it's 5:08pm GMT.

Alright, this project is going to require a bit more time. The scope of this project has become bigger than I originally expected.

I am working now with a small team of IRL friends and based on the past week's progress, we expect to be ready within the next month but I do not want to set a deadline for fear of missing it again, I do not want to ruin this project entirely by continuously giving false deadlines.

If any experienced C++ programmers want to join our team we would happy to welcome you on board (no cut/paste programmers please).

We thank you for your patience and we apologize for the inconvenience (again).

Glad you at least thinking your coin out take your time it will be better off once all the crap dies off.

So it will be still a test coin or the final coin then?

In 50 min .... http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

nop...

I am glad to hear you won't rush a half baked product out the door like elecoin did. Take your time to make it a good one. Besides, as others have mentioned, the recent flood of copy-paste half baked clones had sort-of made now a rather bad time to release a coin. Though I have doubts that in a few weeks or whatever it will be any different from now.

My thoughts exactly.

Okay, no worries. I wish you good luck!

If there is anything an experienced iOS-programmer could do for the project, lemme know. =)

Cheers!

This Coin gets more and more potential in my eyes. A dedicated developer is worth A LOT

why not?

I think people should use UTC for times. GMT confuses people, especially people from UK who think they are at the center of the world.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/button.swf

Agreed, the flood of clones with nothing new to offer is a bit unsettling.


The concept has not changed, the coin will still be considered a "test" coin in beta. I could just release it as is, but I would prefer to launch the coin with all the features I have mentioned as part of the initial launch rather than releasing half finished code with partially working features.

Another part of the delay is that I would like to have some time to test the code and test the features to see if they can be exploited. Before release I would like to be certain that people can't just give themselves a 100% chance to get a block with increased reward and test to make sure that the code for allowing mining at decreased difficulty when "x" amount of time has passed since the last block found.

But by far, the most time-consuming part is trying to work out the hashrate limitation based on a ratio of difficulty and current network hashrate as compared to each client's current hashrate.

We are also working on adding a few other undisclosed features which we will announce closer to the launch date (once we have tested their feasibility).


We appreciate your support!  :)

I doubt the clone flood will have stopped in a few weeks but hopefully we can bring some real change to the table and inspire others to do the same.


Hmmm, a mobile client at launch time... Interesting idea, I will be messaging you in a bit for sure   =)


;)


This is why I was trying to use server time as it is a time that is common to all of us here on the forums. I think I will go back to server time.

+1 on the delay !

take your time and do some dev!

and oh my god its a test coin for testing, its worthless!    ...most altcoins cant claim to be anything actually

Next - ****UPDATE: Release has been postponed for ~1 year (see below)****

I have to wait for a pool.

Take all the time you need. Can't wait for the coin itself. Finally some preparation before launch instead of a simple copy paste and 2 edited lines in code.

Good to hear that you're taking your time, though my thoughts would be to take as long as you need, and release a finished product, not a test coin. If you want to release a test coin then ask a few people you trust to jump on a private network and have gpu hashing wars for a week or so - dont release a test coin to the public. I'd imagine everyone would jump on it asap and go crazy trying to make money off of an unfinished product in your eyes - if you're ok with that, then by all means.

I just think you might like people to play with your finished and polished product, rather than a dented coin.

Another thing i wanted to add, just for a bit of flavour: rename the coin to "SuspenseCoin" or "PostponedCoin" ? =)

+1

Pff. Bitcoin snobs.  ::) Yeah, clearly everyone wants it for the monies, not because it's one of the rare coins that's actually being planned out and announced with new features more than 24 hours before its release.

Any updates?

Was just going to ask the same thing lol

so it's a month later and i'm still interested in this coin