[ANN] 0pticoin (0TC) - Release Date: May 15, 2013 - Postponed ~1 month [ANN]

[c4n10]

The OP should support the recent tradition - postpone this release and then just disappear...

The majority of those people who announce a coin, postpone it and then disappear are people who thought "Oh, I should make my own coin, how hard could it be, just make a couple edits here and there to this code, shouldn't be too hard".

They edit the code, make their announcement and then realize they have no idea how to create the genesis block, can't find the answers anywhere, no one will help them and so they give up.

I already successfully created my own trial genesis block (which is really the hardest part IMHO) before I made my announcement.

The rest now is editing/adding code for my desired features (which is the easy part).

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[c4n10]

Why advertise on Bitcointalk? Much cheaper to just 'announce' a coin, post your advertising to the post footer and in a link and watch the views and clicks roll in...

Huh...? Who's advertising...?

[Come-from-Beyond]

No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

Who will mine these blocks then?

[c4n10]

No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

Who will mine these blocks then?

Probably the same people who mined the first 17,280 blocks with no reward when SmallChange was released...

[rouf553]

No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

Who will mine these blocks then?

Everyone will mine these block for testing their miners.

[qiuness]

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

[c4n10]

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...

[c4n10]

UPDATE:

Updated description with initial starting difficulty which will be ~0.25

[dreamwatcher]

No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

Who will mine these blocks then?

Everyone will mine these block for testing their miners.

Unfortunately , I see this as an issue as well.

As for testing miners, why?. Other then changing a port (either in the miner or in the daemon config) or maybe an IP address if pool mining, all other settings will stay the same.

Do not get me wrong, I understand what the OP is trying to do, the problem with his solution is simple. It costs money to mine.

For example, to power up my 3 rigs, requires a little over 2000 watts of power.

I am sure some miners will be charitable and donate their electrical costs for the first 1000 blocks, maybe after looking more closely at the project I might even do that.

However, what do you think the vast majority of miners are going to do?

Wait till block 999 and fire up, meaning the "testing" of the first 999 blocks will be pretty much invalid.


I guess if the true goal is to get everybody on board at the same time, it might work, but it depends on how fast the first 1000 blocks are mined.

[wndrbr3d]

Basically I think the way to spot a BS pump-and-dump alt is if the only change in the clone is that they mucked with block generation (time/amount/etc).

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

[markm]

It would probably make more sense to have the starting difficulty high enough that it will take about a day to mine the first block if only a few people get aboard, but let the rewards start anyway so come the end of the first day if only a few people did get aboard one of them would get a reward.

Maybe seeing osmeone did get a reward might bring more miners aboard, so maybe more than one block would get solved the second day, meanwhile more people would at least become aware that the launch has begun.

By the third day anyone who happened to have the first two days be their equivalent of a weekend, or happen to co-incide with a multiple shift super heavy set of work hours, might hear about the launch for the first time.

By the end of the first week maybe enough people will be aboard that blocks will be getting solved not a whole lot slower than their target time.

Whenever some big farm does jump on the chain though, blocks are going to come really really fast unless by then the difficulty is still pretty darn high.

You will need one of the good adaptive-difficulty routines too, not one of the ones that just make the difficulty rollercoaster exploit faster and easier and maybe also more effective.

Merged mining might help though, especially since you seem to be planning a bunch of blockchains; they might as well all be mined together, yes? So merged mining probably makes a lot of sense for this project.

-MarkM-

[TheSwede75]

Basically I think the way to spot a BS pump-and-dump alt is if the only change in the clone is that they mucked with block generation (time/amount/etc).

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. It's probably MinCoin
Check out the blockchain, what a clusterfuck of scammyness. First pre-mine was at the rate of 24.000 coins in 7 miutes @ 500 block reward. Introduced @ 2 coins per block with 1.5 diff.

Solid 'development' effort.

[efx]

Even though it is a test coin I want to be able to test it under real mining/usage conditions so that when APCXS releases I can know what to expect on a full-scale.

The coin is labeled as a test coin, but I fully intend for people to use it and mine it. I want to know what it's flaws and draw-backs are in a real-world application.

Bitcoin was released as a beta application and over time grew into something worth mining. 0pticoin while being a beta application on it's way to becoming APCXS may have it's own real-world potential in some real-world applications, I will never know until it is tested.

But my main reason for doing a full release of a "sandbox" coin is to see how it responds when used in real-world applications on a full-scale.

I understand that you want a real world test.  But will you decide if the test failed and then kill the coin?  You "expect people to use and mine it" but if you feel it isn't working out then people might be a little peeved that the project was killed.

I hear what your trying to do.  But, IMHO, you will get more respect if you only release the final version coin.  Your coin isn't Bitcoin, so what they did doesn't apply to any other coin but Bitcoin.

I can already hear people saying... "yea that is the guy who released 0pticoin, which failed and I wasted my time mining".  Scam, hate, etc.

You can get a real world test if you beta the coin with miners.  You can get plenty of people to help.  Since you're not changing much, how much do you have to test?

Your thread title also says - new coin, mine me, make money, fully working, not scam... should say - TEST COIN, SANDBOX, Wanted Testers.

While you have some valid points, I believe you should remember the experimental nature behind *all* of these coins. Recently, it seems, people have lost their heads. At least c4n10 has a plan, and it's an interesting one at that.... I'm watching and probably mining this, just like MC2/netcoin.


Take note: he is making the experimental nature pretty damn clear when other coins (ahem, trc, mincoin) had/have clear flaws that anyone with a basic understanding could spot from the start. Opticoin also appears to be one of the fairest launches of late. It's time for you children to scrutinize what exactly makes any cryptocurrency valuable. Hint: it isn't imbalanced 'scarcity', especially without any unique utility. 

[lophie]

Seems like an interesting experiment. Since this alt-coin actually aims at trying to solve something, I will help mining.

Seriously most other alt-coins just clones or trying to solve problems that don't exist or in a very wrong way.

[c4n10]

No rewards for the first 1,000 blocks (This is to allow users time to review the code, download the client and get it installed/configured as well as to allow the network time to adjust to the initial network hashrate)

Who will mine these blocks then?

Everyone will mine these block for testing their miners.

Unfortunately , I see this as an issue as well.

As for testing miners, why?. Other then changing a port (either in the miner or in the daemon config) or maybe an IP address if pool mining, all other settings will stay the same.

Do not get me wrong, I understand what the OP is trying to do, the problem with his solution is simple. It costs money to mine.

For example, to power up my 3 rigs, requires a little over 2000 watts of power.

I am sure some miners will be charitable and donate their electrical costs for the first 1000 blocks, maybe after looking more closely at the project I might even do that.

However, what do you think the vast majority of miners are going to do?

Wait till block 999 and fire up, meaning the "testing" of the first 999 blocks will be pretty much invalid.


I guess if the true goal is to get everybody on board at the same time, it might work, but it depends on how fast the first 1000 blocks are mined.

Yes, it does cost money to mine, but I'm pretty sure 1,000 blocks (one day) of no rewards isn't exactly going to break the bank. People mined 17,280 blocks with no reward when smallchange came out, I'm asking for MUCH less.

And you would be surprised how many people might actually NEED that time to test their miners. I always see the same thing at EVERY coin release, the coin comes out, people start mining it and a couple thousand blocks in people start asking "how do I solo mine, I have never been able to figure out solo mining for any coin" or "this is my first time mining a coin, how do I set this up". This is my main concern, I want everyone to have the same equal chance to start earning rewards at the same time (even if they need help getting set-up).

Basically I think the way to spot a BS pump-and-dump alt is if the only change in the clone is that they mucked with block generation (time/amount/etc).

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

Those are just the starting changes. This coin is going to see a lot of VASTLY different changes over it's lifespan.

The main reason I am starting with basic changes is if I release it on day one and it has issues every edit/addition to the code I have made might need to be reviewed and scrutinized. It's much easier to start with something basic, release it and add features over time and address issues as they pop-up rather than making a whole bunch of experimental changes and then having to dig through all of them if there is an issue after release.

[noel]

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...

mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

[paul21]

Don't forget to start with checkpoints (could already be in the code); there's a high chance (from my experience) that a pool will end up with >51% during the opening week.

[BrewCrewFan]

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...

mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

I know right? Putting my poor nvidia cards up early for nothing just to watch the dif jump 10 fold in a matter of hours...for no reward.

[sidelsky18]

And you would be surprised how many people might actually NEED that time to test their miners. I always see the same thing at EVERY coin release, the coin comes out, people start mining it and a couple thousand blocks in people start asking "how do I solo mine, I have never been able to figure out solo mining for any coin" or "this is my first time mining a coin, how do I set this up". This is my main concern, I want everyone to have the same equal chance to start earning rewards at the same time (even if they need help getting set-up).

Could you explain how to solo mine? I've never been able to get it running before.

[Edvin512]

maybe learn mining on testnet?