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Author Topic: [ANN] 0pticoin (0TC) - Release Date: May 15, 2013 - Postponed ~1 month [ANN]  (Read 18708 times)
sidelsky18
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May 07, 2013, 11:05:43 PM
 #81


And you would be surprised how many people might actually NEED that time to test their miners. I always see the same thing at EVERY coin release, the coin comes out, people start mining it and a couple thousand blocks in people start asking "how do I solo mine, I have never been able to figure out solo mining for any coin" or "this is my first time mining a coin, how do I set this up". This is my main concern, I want everyone to have the same equal chance to start earning rewards at the same time (even if they need help getting set-up).


Could you explain how to solo mine? I've never been able to get it running before.
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Edvin512
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May 07, 2013, 11:15:32 PM
 #82

maybe learn mining on testnet?

I am like a lennisters
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May 07, 2013, 11:18:11 PM
 #83

I have a coin named after me? I, I, I don't know what to say. I've sworn off alts, but how can I not mine this gem?

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May 07, 2013, 11:57:36 PM
 #84

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...
mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

Look, I'm trying to release a product that is fair to all who wish to use it. If you have an issue, address it, but there's no need to be an asshole about it when I'm doing these things to try and be equally fair to all involved.

If people are worried about mining farms, then I can borrow an idea from YAC which will prevent gpu mining until someone creates a gpu miner capable of mining the altered scrypt algo, but eventually gpu miners WILL be able to mine this coin, it is inevitable.

Also, how would YOU be giving ME a free ride...? I am not being paid to dev this coin nor am I the owner of some massive mining farm. The best I can do at scrypt mining is 350 KH/s with my 5870 which is laughable in comparison to the majority of miners out there, I am not benefiting in some huge way by dev'ing this coin for free and being subjected to the same mining conditions as everyone else.

Don't forget to start with checkpoints (could already be in the code); there's a high chance (from my experience) that a pool will end up with >51% during the opening week.

I have checkpoints.cpp but not really sure what I would put in there pre-release aside from the genesis block since there is no pre-mine...

I know right? Putting my poor nvidia cards up early for nothing just to watch the dif jump 10 fold in a matter of hours...for no reward.

Ok, think about this:

I release the client with rewards from block 1. Large hashrate miners jump on immediately and your nvidia card sees nothing but orphans/rejects because the large hashrate miners are on raping it while it is at a lower difficulty, how are you benefiting in this situation...?

Could you explain how to solo mine? I've never been able to get it running before.

I will post detailed instructions for solo mining here when I release the client.

I have a coin named after me? I, I, I don't know what to say. I've sworn off alts, but how can I not mine this gem?

ROFLMAO, not exactly my intention, but I can pretend it was   Cheesy
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May 08, 2013, 12:02:10 AM
 #85

Anyone who releases a coin at 0 difficulty at this point deserves to be kicked in the nuts.
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May 08, 2013, 12:04:49 AM
 #86

Anyone who releases a coin at 0 difficulty at this point deserves to be kicked in the nuts.

That is why initial difficulty will be ~0.25 which at 350KH/s would be finding 1 block/hour.

I chose this difficulty in hopes it would be high enough to keep mining farms from raping it while keeping it low enough that cpu miners can still mine it.
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May 08, 2013, 12:08:20 AM
 #87

watching
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May 08, 2013, 12:08:52 AM
 #88

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...
mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

Look, I'm trying to release a product that is fair to all who wish to use it. If you have an issue, address it, but there's no need to be an asshole about it when I'm doing these things to try and be equally fair to all involved.

AAARRRHHH i do believe that i have addressed it!
maybe if you re-read it a couple of times you may get it!

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May 08, 2013, 12:17:10 AM
 #89

Look, I'm trying to release a product that is fair to all who wish to use it. If you have an issue, address it, but there's no need to be an asshole about it when I'm doing these things to try and be equally fair to all involved.
 
AAARRRHHH i do believe that i have addressed it!
maybe if you re-read it a couple of times you may get it!

My point wasn't that you hadn't addressed your issue, my point was that you were being an asshole while addressing your issue.

I understand what you are saying and I have already addressed your issue (maybe if you re-read my answer a couple of times you may get it!).

I'm working right now on finding a solution to make the coin as fair as possible.

If I borrow YAC's idea and alter the scrypt algo then it won't be minable by GPU until someone devs a new gpu miner for the altered algo, but the coin will still be subject to users with cpu botnets.

If I have to, I will run with this solution for release, but I am looking for a better alternative, maybe I can limit the number of shares accepted by the client during "x" amount of time proportional to the current difficulty rating so that while difficulty is low users with high hashrates will be limited on how many blocks per "x" amount of time they can find and the number of submitable shares (findable blocks per "x" amount of time) will grow proportionally with the network hashrate/difficulty.
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May 08, 2013, 12:35:46 AM
 #90

Well if you want to be fair different blar blar blar
You could make the first 20,000 shares/blocks mature as a investment i don't know maybe it takes 30 days to mature but they are worth more to start with [500 block instead of 50 block hell i don't know just guessing here] , you will get people that want it to work [ yes i am one of those people but as you put it a asshole as well Smiley ]

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c4n10
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May 08, 2013, 12:44:58 AM
 #91

Well if you want to be fair different blar blar blar
You could make the first 20,000 shares/blocks mature as a investment i don't know maybe it takes 30 days to mature but they are worth more to start with [500 block instead of 50 block hell i don't know just guessing here] , you will get people that want it to work [ yes i am one of those people but as you put it a asshole as well Smiley ]

Hmmm, this is an interesting idea but really this is just benefiting early adopters and has no real value past the initial launch period other than to quickly fill hoarder's wallets so they can have thousands of coins to dump a month down the road.

My intention is to avoid hoarders accumulating thousands of coins in the first two days (which is why I have low block rewards and an increased starting difficulty) to help prevent market manipulation by users with ungodly amounts of coin.
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May 08, 2013, 12:49:16 AM
 #92

Where are popcorn gifs as with YACoin?
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May 08, 2013, 12:55:34 AM
 #93

You cannot stop early adopters getting more coin than those who wait until it has been excepted as a ligiet coin on the exchanges and mining pools. So you really need the early adopters to make it work or to build interest from mining pools and exchanges.

ok so having them all mature at the same time might let to a pump and dump in month well 2 things with that the first is it would have to be on a exchange first for this to happen, second who say they all have to mature in 30 days just a idea, ideas evolve make the blocks of random size the smaller the block say 100 coin takes 2 weeks to mature up to 500 coins that take 6 weeks to mature. You could make it last like this for a week as people will know that they have coins coming for there time and effort.

I wonder how others would view this type of idea?Huh

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May 08, 2013, 12:57:28 AM
 #94

The high starting difficulty addresses nothing. Large gpu power can still hoard coins if they choose as they command large percentage of hash power. Low difficulty due to latency issues might give advantage to some solo miners with better connection and most importantly they can solo min at low difficulty. At high difficulty when say 1 to 3 gpu hash take more than 30 min ( re-target value) to solve block they are likely to get many many stales  - block solved in 31 min will be at lower diff than current and hence rejected.

I would start at lowest difficulty.

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May 08, 2013, 01:03:25 AM
 #95

First time miners:

If you want to get a head start on setting up for solo mining, just set up for any of the scrypt coins (LTC,NVC,FTC,BBQ,BTB,CHNcoin) tonight using any one of many guides.

Here are a couple to get you started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83371.0

With new coins often times the blocks are being found so fast that directly connecting to the daemon to mine will result in alot of stale work.

I posted a guide on setting up a private pushpool to use long poll to avoid that issue. The guide is for FTC, but other then port numbers, which I normally just set in the daemon config. to an easy to remember number, set up is the same for all scrypt based coins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178286.msg1867412#msg1867412


Unless the ports are being changed with the final code (and even if they are, I change it to an easy number anyway), setting up either way will have you ready for tomorrow.

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May 08, 2013, 01:06:43 AM
 #96

cool Smiley

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May 08, 2013, 01:06:50 AM
 #97

If needed I can turn on a couple of test net daemons on cryptocoinexplorer for whatever coins that are wanted.

This will allow new miners to see blocks being found...etc
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May 08, 2013, 01:08:49 AM
 #98

maybe one for ftc? Cheesy

c4n10
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May 08, 2013, 01:19:03 AM
 #99

You cannot stop early adopters getting more coin than those who wait until it has been excepted as a ligiet coin on the exchanges and mining pools. So you really need the early adopters to make it work or to build interest from mining pools and exchanges.

ok so having them all mature at the same time might let to a pump and dump in month well 2 things with that the first is it would have to be on a exchange first for this to happen, second who say they all have to mature in 30 days just a idea, ideas evolve make the blocks of random size the smaller the block say 100 coin takes 2 weeks to mature up to 500 coins that take 6 weeks to mature. You could make it last like this for a week as people will know that they have coins coming for there time and effort.

I wonder how others would view this type of idea?Huh

I can't stop early adopters from gaining more coins than those who aren't but I don't need to encourage early adopter exploitation either. Just because early adopters are going to get more coins by mining at a lower difficulty doesn't mean I should add to the problem by also increasing the rewards for those low difficulty blocks.

As mentioned earlier, there WILL be an exchange, pool and forum for these coins. I am in the process of dev'ing the site where they will be hosted right now and expect to have all of them available by the end of the month.

I am really not worried about getting people to mine it the first week. There has been plenty of interest expressed already and I think the forum has shown that a coin doesn't need gimmicks to get people to mine it, it seems people will mine just about anything. Bytecoin made absolutely ZERO changes from the original bitcoin code and it took off pretty quickly. Alt's are released on a weekly basis with nothing new, innovative or creative and even the coins that have all sorts of issues and aren't accepted by the mainstream community are still being mined by other people.

The first week/month is not my concern. My concern is keeping the coin viable as time progresses. Increased early adopter rewards are fun for the first week, but in the long run it is almost always detrimental to the coin's overall image as people view it as quick pump-n-dump scam coin that catered to the early adopters (a.k.a. the hoarders).

The high starting difficulty addresses nothing. Large gpu power can still hoard coins if they choose as they command large percentage of hash power. Low difficulty due to latency issues might give advantage to some solo miners with better connection and most importantly they can solo min at low difficulty. At high difficulty when say 1 to 3 gpu hash take more than 30 min ( re-target value) to solve block they are likely to get many many stales  - block solved in 31 min will be at lower diff than current and hence rejected.

I would start at lowest difficulty.

I am not going to start at lowest difficulty. I will either adjust the scrypt algo so it can not be immediately mined by gpu or I will do what I am trying to work on now which is limit the number of blocks a user can find during "x" amount of time at "y" difficulty. This way users with high hashrates will be limited on the number of blocks they can find at lower difficulties.

First time miners:

If you want to get a head start on setting up for solo mining, just set up for any of the scrypt coins (LTC,NVC,FTC,BBQ,BTB,CHNcoin) tonight using any one of many guides.

Here are a couple to get you started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83371.0

With new coins often times the blocks are being found so fast that directly connecting to the daemon to mine will result in alot of stale work.

I posted a guide on setting up a private pushpool to use long poll to avoid that issue. The guide is for FTC, but other then port numbers, which I normally just set in the daemon config. to an easy to remember number, set up is the same for all scrypt based coins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178286.msg1867412#msg1867412


Unless the ports are being changed with the final code (and even if they are, I change it to an easy number anyway), setting up either way will have you ready for tomorrow.



Very cool, thank you for providing this.

The port numbers which 0TC will use are mentioned in OP.

rpcport=9707
port=9708
testnet=19708
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May 08, 2013, 01:33:58 AM
 #100

I will put a test net up for feathercoin and the current code at c4n10 github for 0pticoin.

I am placing theses on one of the old backup VPS for cryptocoinexplorer that I am not using right now.

I will publish IP and quick guide to using a test net when they are up and synced (or with a new chain, doesn't matter as it is just test net)



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