Bitcoin Forum

Looks like it needs a LOT of work, but certainly has that classic charm

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."

Legal fees etc are going to be about 500 euros, german notaries dont take bitcoin (or is there one.....now is your chance to shine)

Starting price lets say 10 BTC in increment's of 1

That house... That haunted house..

Best for shooting "The Grudge Part 4"

lol joke. Goodluck dude.
I wish i can buy lol but i'm Indian :P

Is it the same as this one?

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/63489411?navigationServiceUrl=/search/resultList/exposeNavigation/navigate.go?searchUrl%3D/Suche/S-T/Haus-Kauf/Thueringen/Kyffhaeuserkreis/Ichstedt%26exposeId%3D63489411&navigationHasPrev=true&navigationHasNext=false&navigationBarType=RESULT_LIST

You know, the one that says "only fit for demolition"

Does it have a yard? If so, how big?

In Germany, a notary's fees are fixed by law, and they're in Euros. A notary cannot just set his own fee or decide to be payed in something else.

You realise she could get screwed of she accepts an offer and the price of BTC drops.  At what point is the price locked in during the sales process in Germany?

Wait your starting this at 10BTC which is currently $1,213 ? is this right?

Awesome house, bet after a bit of work it will be a nice place to live. What is the area like, bet it has awesome views.

Do you guarantee the sale to the highest bidder, or do you have a reserve price below which you wont sell?

Do you have to be German to be able to buy this house?

thanks

Is it the same as this one?

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/63489411?navigationServiceUrl=/search/resultList/exposeNavigation/navigate.go?searchUrl%3D/Suche/S-T/Haus-Kauf/Thueringen/Kyffhaeuserkreis/Ichstedt%26exposeId%3D63489411&navigationHasPrev=true&navigationHasNext=false&navigationBarType=RESULT_LIST

You know, the one that says "only fit for demolition"

Is this house under monument protection?

Or are you allowed to renovate it any way you want it?

"only fit for demolition"

I highly doubt it is "protected"

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

Yes you dont need a escrow.

Both of you meet up at the notary. The notary creates all the papers and contracts and you sign it. After you've signed it - you send him the btc

I'm not flying out to Germany without an escrow contract.

.


I don't know if this is a serious question or a troll, but I will answer anyway. The item you have liked to is a plot of land with a broken old barn on 377m2, and has been tax foreclosed by the town, and its STARTING price at town auction is 3200 euros (which is its outstanding tax bill). I think your implication that my girlfriends grandfathers house, after looking at the photos, could be classed as only fir for demolition' would probably offend her greatly, so please excuse me if I don't pass on your comment :)

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

377 m² equals ~ 400 m²

The description mentions a 2 story house (which we see in the photos), a shed (which we see in the photos) and a storage facility (which we see in the photos).

The given building year 1900 fits the prevalent architecture of the time and place we see in the photos.

The house is described as not inhabited (which we see in the photos), free standing (which we see in the photos), having "simple" fittings (which is code for no heating (which we see in the photos)), 100 m² of living area (which fits the photos) and condemned (which fits the photos).

Now why it would only cost 3200 Euro while yours is claimed to be estimated at 25000 Euro is an interesting question. An interesting question indeed. I wonder why that is.

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

Guys, never ever send BTC with out escrow.

Please make sure if you do not use escrow you visit the house and get the papers before sending BTC.

This has SCAM all over it.

Be very very careful.

Hi,

Sorry to be honest I missed your question in the flood of replies.

Escrow is not needed in my opinion. Its not like a hockey card or a Bitcoin miner machine. You can call a certified lawyer and say 'is this house bitcoin bobs girlfriends house' and the lawyer will do what is called a 'title check' and will say 'yes this house is her house' and then, She goes to a notary and signs a document saying 'Paid in full' for the house and gives it to you. As we are dealing with a house it is not something that can be frauded so easily. Dont fear.

no, such kind of old (former/abandoned) farm buildings is just typical for old German villages.

A caveat though is that this village is in the middle of nowhere in the former Eastern part of Germany, which still is structurally weak.

This particular deal would likely require you to submit some BTC to escrow, enough to justify the buyer to fly in and look at the property and paperwork. Something like;

You send 20 BTC to John, the buyer sends whatever the auction ends up costing to John.

Buyer flies to DE, meets you, sees property, signs papers, John sends you auction + 20BTC. If buyer flies in and things are not as described or it turns out to be a scam somehow, the 20 BTC get sent to buyer.

Your opinion is that escrow is not needed, but would you be willing to accept it regardless?

Hast nicht mit der ganzen Paranoia gerechnet? Was erzählst du deiner Freundin, wenn aufgrund dessen das ganze Teil nur für 40 btc weggeht? Du musst es den Leuten ganz langsam und klar erklären. Mit Adresse, google maps Koordinaten, womöglich mit Besitzurkunde, in der halt Namen etc ausgeblurt wurden. Die Jungs wurden einfach so oft abgezockt, dass sie keinem mehr über den Weg trauen und sie verlangen einen unvernünftiges Maß an Beweisen, aber man muss das verstehen. Sieh's gechillt.

so whats the highest bid right now? I dont get it  ;D

Not sure how it works in the US, Chaang Noi but in the UK, we use the lawyers for escrow.

You have a lawyer, they have a lawyer.

The lawyers are the ones who do the exchange.

They're not allowed to defraud otherwise they'd lose their license to practice so yeah, you could opt to have an additional escrow service over and above the lawyers but here there's no point.

Perhaps it works like this in Germany too, hence the lack of desire/need by OP to use escrow.

But in Germany you can't give them BTC. There is no way this can work like that with BTC.

notary might not know if it was funded, also is btc legal tender in germany?

Possible to visit it?

The seller will know that it's funded before signing, which should suffice. However, either the buyer or the seller could intentionally give a faulty privkey, which could result in funds staying in limbo forever. I'm sure there is a better way of doing this, but I'll have to think about it.

I don't think you need to pay with legal tender, or even pay at all, to switch ownership. One can do whatever they want with their property, and if the seller doesn't appear like she's evading taxes, I don't think anyone will care.

sadly the seller is in canada anyway so that is going to make this crazy hard

I see this has become more of a discussion thread than an auction but hey, I will roll with it. It is interesting to hammer this out for people in the future.

even on silk road you must use escrow.

even on silk road you must use escrow.

so you will use escrow? yes or no?

It might not be any harder than doing it without Bitcoin. Instead of issuing a cheque in the name of the notary (potential technical troubles, high fees, etc.) or making a wire transfer (assuming notaries work that way in Germany), you will mail in the required secrets. Assuming there is a foolproof way of making it work, that is. :)

That is exactly where a BTC escrow comes in. If you write a cheque you know the money is with you, and the buyer knows they have something to get to the money.

With BTC I can give you my private key but there's no knowing when you move the coins using that key and there is nothing I can do about it. Also, you might close the deal and then I move the coins myself (we both have the private key) and there's nothing you can do about it. With escrow none of us holds the private key, and we both have some recourse if something goes wrong (granted, it depends on how much one can trust the escrow). In the end, escrow service is the cheque in normal currency.

I apreciate the dialogue we have going here and all points are valid, but, could some of the champions of escrow please answer my previous questions if they so believe that escrow is a good idea. I'm just not seeing the point to it, but I fail to see how that automatically makes me a scammer, same as I also float when I go in the water and black cats do sometimes cross my shadow, but I fail to see how that makes me a witch.

That is exactly where a BTC escrow comes in. If you write a cheque you know the money is with you, and the buyer knows they have something to get to the money.

With BTC I can give you my private key but there's no knowing when you move the coins using that key and there is nothing I can do about it. Also, you might close the deal and then I move the coins myself (we both have the private key) and there's nothing you can do about it. With escrow none of us holds the private key, and we both have some recourse if something goes wrong (granted, it depends on how much one can trust the escrow). In the end, escrow service is the cheque in normal currency.

also, maybe OP might describe in detail how he imagines the deal will be processed.

OP could be scammed when the buyer just denies having received any funds. since btc in no legal tender, will blockchain info work as a prove of payment? Have you checked this with your lawyer?

OP seems to know his stuff. Still in this model YOU OP could be scammed when the buyer just denies having received any funds. since btc in no legal tender, will blockchain info work as a prove of payment? Have you checked this with your lawyer?

Also,  we still have to see an explanation how this purchase should work with an forum-member serving as escrow.

Is there a particular reason OP that you refuse to give the address of the house? Do you fear it to be vandalized or something?

In a court in Germany? Doubt it.

Also can you even pay for a house with BTC in Germany? 

Units of Value intended to function as currency that can be exchanged against real benefits, goods or services or that f.e. Bitcoin, can be created in computer networks ar not classified as E-Money, even if they serve the same economical Funktions as E-Money. [snip]

A permission to create and use this Units of Value as currency is not required. If this Units become a commercial subject themselves the business has to qualify as Bank account as for § 1 Abs. 1 Satz 2 Nrn. 4 or 10 KWG or Financial Service Provider as for § 1 Abs. 1a Satz 2 Nrn. 1 - 4 KWG and operates under reservation of § 32 Abs. 1 KWG  

If you don't want to answer in English, I will try in German:

IST ES MÖGLICH DAS HAUS ZU BESUCHEN?

So, you want us to buy a house but you wont even give us the address?

Hmm...

That is good news, Now all we need is an address of the house.

Who is this 'us' Mr goat, are you now representing 'we the people'. Your offhanded comments about how you 'highly doubt' the German legal system will recognise something, yet you have know knowledge of German law, continued spam questioning of me about escrow yet providing no answers, and now after I have said that anyone who PMs me who wants to seriously bid are welcome to the address, but I don't want it on open forum (care to post your address Mr Goat?) Neither may the future purchaser either, and you respond with 'wont even give us the address'......

can you please stop acting like you are the BitAuction Police or Satoshi's right hand man/a high court judge of the German court/Goat Scam Police Department (GSPD?) or whatever it is you think you are. Many thanks :)

EDIT: actually rant on, Just found out via PM there is such a thing as an IGNORE button.

Click.....ahhhh.....relax.....

Why would ignore someone that sounds very interested in your property, just does not make sense.

Which he is not likely to post in this treas but rather as a PM to those who seem interested enough....

Let him finish his workday, get home, eat some dinner etc. The auction is not over in a few hrs.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too.

OP, rethink your position, Goat is no troll and no scammer, and he is demonstrating real interest in your house - just chill out and understand that his concerns are legit.

if somebody is from germany near this area it shouldnt be a problem to find the house with the pictures.

@bitcoin_bob does your girlfriend live in germany?  How will you handle the deal? She has to come over at least one time

@bitcoin_bob does your girlfriend live in germany?  How will you handle the deal? She has to come over at least one time

She has a power of attorney with her lawyer who deals with everything in Germany on her behalf.

Picture of my Girlfriend? No problem, I will start a new auction, does she have to show her tits to escrow so they can verify she has tits before you send money or does she show tits and trust you will make payment if satisfied :P

She has a power of attorney with her lawyer who deals with everything in Germany on her behalf.

Picture of my Girlfriend? No problem, I will start a new auction, does she have to show her tits to escrow so they can verify she has tits before you send money or does she show tits and trust you will make payment if satisfied :P

She has a power of attorney with her lawyer who deals with everything in Germany on her behalf.

Picture of my Girlfriend? No problem, I will start a new auction, does she have to show her tits to escrow so they can verify she has tits before you send money or does she show tits and trust you will make payment if satisfied :P

Now we are speaking, man!

No escrow for that - but she shows first ;)

Well could you PM me her phone number? I would like to call her and ask about the house(yeah im very intrested). I speak german nativ.

It looks like a Fachwerkhaus that makes it old eneough to but it unter Denkmalschutz http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denkmalschutz by Law and thats a Bitch when it comes to renovating.

As you say no one has reasonably said how a third party person holding funds would be able to make this deal work. I don't quite know what you are saying about the buyer denies receiving funds and I could be scammed can you elaborate?

So, the contract is signed, funds are sent afterwards vs. contract signed, no funds sent. Will the blockchain be sufficient as evidence that no payment was made?

corrected myself here:


Actually OP, I come to think that YOU would be the beneficent of an escrow service.

1) Auction ends
2) funds are transferred to escrow
3) deal is made perfect
4) funds are forwarded to you.
5) ????
6) Profit

An escrow service would actually be useful for you in case your customer wouldn't pay and you'd have a hard time proving legally that no payment was made.

I'd not discard it from the beginning.

Also again, don't get pissed so easily. On this forums, everyone is a scammer until proven otherwise. It lies in the nature of a non-reversible transaction system and is not an insult to you personally so you really shouldn't take it personally.

However if Bitcoin crashed during this time my GF would be left with nothing and the other person a free house. So it would have to be done at speed- the document would need to be basically prepped and sent within days which would be possible.

Just adding to the 'thread hijacking' a little bit, it is normal for buyers to request/require escrow, as that provides a huge safety net to any deal.

It is not, however, normal to refuse escrow (not saying you did, not saying you didn't). The only two reasons I can think of for someone refusing escrow are:
- You don't trust anyone, which is fair but then why are you trying to have people trust you? (*)
- You are trying to pull up a scam. A scammer will never admit to want to scam, and they always have great theories on why escrow isn't needed.

(*) - I know there are other mechanisms to secure the deal, as you described. That is all fine except the moment bitcoins are transfered there is nothing that can bring them back, not a court order, not the police, not the best lawyer in the world. If you succeed in making things look legit, receive the coins and then disappear... well... you know. On the other hand, if you are legit and the buyer doesn't pay, you have a physical good that you can prove is still yours, you can have the police arrest the scamming buyer. Hell, you can go there personally and kick the shit out of the guy that tricked you, so you see that while it seems that dealing with bitcoins is the same as any other currency it really isn't.


Now, as another potentially interested party I have to ask again, as I didn't see an answer and I'm following this thread eagerly: Will you accept dealing with a bitcoin escrow? I know you said you didn't say you wouldn't, but what I'm asking is if I can bid knowing you will accept a mutually trusted party to hold the coins until the deal is concluded?

As for your 'what if btc price plummets', are you going to use a payment processor or are you going to take BTC? It is the same thing for the buyer, but does present an added risk, so as someone (goat?) proposed earlier, would you accept the escrow to hold the funds already converted to your currency of choice instead?

But the customer does not get a payment certificate from me until they make payment.

You are having an auction in bitcoin, if bitcoins crash to 1$ today, would you still honor the auction and sell the house to the highest bidder (curretly 35 btc)?

So thats why people worry. they make a payment and do not get this certificate.
Still one should assume that if lawyers and notaries are involved this all is saver than 99% of other btc purchases.

I'd recommend you start another auction when you have some free hours to answer the inevitable questions and spend some thoughts on how to layout and formulate your offer to minimize them (details how the transaction works, offer to give details per PM etc) - considering the experiences you made with this thread which I'd consider as a test run, for it is no longer a valid auction thread imho.

So OP, please don't give up selling this house for bitcoin. its an awesome idea and it should happen.

but had no reply......

off topic: where in germany do they sell beer for bitcoin?

OK....I'm starting to form an idea of what is being asked a bit better now. Thank you for trying to elaborate on the whole escrow thing, which is, all I have really asked multiple times.

See, you are the first person to have even mentioned that there is such a thing as escrow which holds BTC in currency. Now if that were the case, I do not see why not. Can you answer me some questions though-

(removed for brevity)

See, that's where things get hard to do. You are doing an auction in BTC, an irreversible, pseudo-anonymous crypto-currency that is not officially accepted anywhere state sponsored and are trying to get the whole protection and guarantees of government debt-money. The two are not interchangeable, you have either/or.

If you want to be sure you have a guaranteed exchange rate and that you don't have to do your own research on who is trustworthy and you don't want to take responsibility over your actions if you make the wrong decision, then you should only work with fiat.

The reason people here are so jumpy about scammers is because the buyer is the one holding most of the risk up to the very end. Sure, bitcoins can plummet, but are you willing to give back the difference if bitcoins rise in value while under escrow?

Yes, John might run away with your 25k EUR BTC equivalent, but I can bet you he has right now and at any point in time much, much more than that being held for others. That is why we trust him, and sure he can disappear, but so can you. He has a great track record, you we don't (yet) know.

As for all other questions about payment processors you'll have to do your own investigation (which goes full circle on this response). If I were to tell you "sure, don't worry, fully insured and such" would you just believe me? I'm not sure at all what the answer is, btw, I don't trust insured companies anyway, as we all know what happens when it is time for insurance to pay up...

But hang in there! We are certainly progressing and even if you end up not selling your house for BTC, this will help any upcoming seller.

I still don't understand why a payment processor like pitpay shouldn't be a considerable option.

So basically I am standing on the edge of uncharted territory here- we could loose everything if BTC collapses but if we win, we have the honour of probably being the first people to auction off a house in BTC, at least here. 

what is pitpay? I googled and see nothing but pages of japanese text, aboutorg pages and spam.

You can always ask the person who is the Escrow to immediately convert the BTC to fiat (let's EUR) for the time of the transaction and back to BTC to the seller once the buyer confirms everything is OK.

Are these pictures recently taken ?

politzi its named Polizei!

So much interest!

Sadly the price is way to much for me :(, it has very good potential.


I hope whoever buys it is passionate and makes this into a beautiful home!

I think the objects price is the least of your worries. My parents had renovated a similar object in better condition. Renovation cost was roughly twice the purchase price.

Also please keep in mind there are rules in germany for certain old buildings ("Denkmalschutz"). You might be obligated to preserve the building "in its current substance". You probably can't just demolish it and build a new house on top (which might be cheaper than renovating). I'm no expert on this, but many old buildings like that in germany go for a very low price because of this. An uncle of mine, roughly 30 years ago, bought a now beautiful house in germany for 1 german Mark. He's been renovating it for decades.

I'm not trying to talk this down, I'm sure it can be made a beautiful home / vacation place, but maybe OP should clarify on the status regarding "monument protection" to avoid costly surprises for the buyer.

On the other hand I've been thinking about starting a "bitcoin village". This might be a candidate ;). I'd be interested in the age structure of the population there.

EDIT: as an example see the 3rd offer from the top on this page: http://pfeiffer-koberstein-immobilien.de/portal.php?id=15&vSuchText=Denkmalschutz

The building is from the 2nd half of the 19th century and is under "monument protection". It's absolutely gorgeous, yet it goes for a mere 55,000€ because of the obligations attached.

Also please keep in mind there are rules in germany for certain old buildings ("Denkmalschutz"). You might be obligated to preserve the building "in its current substance". You probably can't just demolish it and build a new house on top (which might be cheaper than renovating).

But I already said specifically this is NOT Denk as this has been checked and verified. Why do people not read before commenting......

Is it possible to see the location of the property within the town on Google Maps or something similar? Thanks.

Is it possible to see the location of the property within the town on Google Maps or something similar? Thanks.

@molecular - there is no Denkmalschutz on the property as has been repeated by OP several times (to his exasperation).

I know you already know this now but just for the sake of anyone else joining this thread:

there is no Denkmalschutz on the property

yes. I'm very sorry. I didn't read the thread in its entirety.

My vote would be to start a new tread named something like "House for sale in (area)/Germany - BTC auction" and link to this tread in the OP.

If possible it might only be open for posts by users who first made contact via PM.

there is a function that allows you to do that?

I do not know, hence the "If possible", but I know for sure that it's possible to make a trad where OP is moderating it. Not quite the same, but you could remove any clutterposts.

My vote would be to start a new tread named something like "House for sale in (area)/Germany.

Why can't you just keep using this thread? So what if there is a bunch of mess earlier on. Just pick up and continue with the auction as normal. List a summary of previous bids and there you go.

Bidding 44.444 BTC.

Starting price lets say 10 BTC in increment's of 1

Why can't you just keep using this thread? So what if there is a bunch of mess earlier on. Just pick up and continue with the auction as normal. List a summary of previous bids and there you go.

2 things you need to do to prevent that; consistently up to date original post (so I can quickly see a FAQ with the denkmalschutz status) including auction terms, date and time of end and current highest bid. That and bump your thread with bid acceptance and daily time to end warnings.

Dear OP (Bitcoin Bob),

I've been reading through this very interesting thread, and applaud you and your girlfriend.

BUT ... it all seems very backwards ... in my minds eye its YOU that should be demanding escrow ...

Escrow isn't just a protection for the buyer, its also for the seller. And in a house sale, as you've rightly pointed out, the lawyer acts as the escrow for the sale and signatures, etc. That is perfectly fine for the buyer (its a bit confusing that others don't see this, but I guess they're not used to dealing with lawyers or issues like this).

My concern is yourself and your girlfriend. How are you protecting yourself in this sale? It is a simple case for a seller to say they sent the money and then state that you must have transferred the money away already, but they DID in fact pay you (not). But they have the signed documents, etc, and will have the house..

Might I suggest the following (assuming no escrow to protect yourself):

1. Get the buyer to state the address of the wallet they'll be paying from.
2. Make sure the btc is there and make the buyer aware you're checking.
2a. Make the buyer send you 1 Satoshi to confirm its their wallet (0.0000001 btc in case you didn't know)
3. State the address of the wallet that they need to pay into.
4. And make this all very clear on paper, possibly drawing up a tiny contract to highlight such points.
5. Upon payment, check wallet, etc, the buyer now can't 'pretend' they've paid you, and that you know the money is there.

Make sure you protect yours.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but when someone posts in your thread 'I think this is a scam' chances are higher to the Yes factor. Which is totally unfair on my girlfriend to have to take a possible big financial loss simply because someone can't keep their opinions to themselves.



Auction rules technically state no spamming of the post or I will completely abandon the auction. No one is willing to honour that rule, so am I supposed to (in the words of bateatus) open robe and present ass, simply because people only like the rules that suit them (IE getting a house for no reserve) and not the ones that suit me (Having the courtesy not to pollute my post again to give me fair chance to have a decent auction in peace?)

AUCTION RULES

The auction stats at 10 BTC and has no reserve. Bidding is in increments of at least 1BTC, but if you say have a total balance of 111.15 btc and you want to throw the lot at me then I will accept it, as long as the previous bid was LESS than 110.

Which are the bones of it- your now pissed off because this isn't going the way you would have like it to and you would not care what happened on this thread if it meant there was an outside chance you would score the house for really really cheap. 

Actually I am changing the rules because of factors outside of MY control. People spamming my post.

Like it or lump it, these are the new rules. Feel free to take your frustrations out on the spammers of my post, especially those who decided to not once, but twice throw up accusations of scamming on them. As per the auction rules if this degrades into a discussion and does not stay an auction I reserve the right to just pull it in it's entirety. If you want to discuss there is a perfectly good thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0) for all of this where I would be happy to talk about it until the cows come home.

Transplanting discussion from here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199199.msg2100455#msg2100455) as per OP's request:


Could you please point out exactly where in your OP you state that the auction will be cancelled due to spam?

Yes, people like the idea of getting a house for no reserve because that is what was stated in the OP of this auction. Perhaps they made their bids on that basis. Please note the time-stamp of the following quote compared to the previous quote.




In what was did I indicate that I was pissed off? In what way did I indicate that things are not going the way I would have liked? I have made no bids. I have only raised some concerns, and I will further clarify here, that imposing a reserve on this auction after having explicitly stated that there would be no reserve does not inspire confidence in your trustworthiness. It looks suspiciously like a bait-and-switch (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bait-switch.asp?ModPagespeed=noscript).

Regarding the outside chance of scoring a house for really, really cheap. Can you really blame someone for not wanting to have a chance at it when the terms are favourable? Can you really fault a potential customer for being attracted to such a deal? This fault does not lie with the customer, but lies with the original terms of the auction. They sure appear to favour winning the house for a price potentially much lower than market value.

As far as me ever bidding, I said I was thinking about it - toying with the idea, really. I did not say that I would have definitely made a bid. In fact, I have found this auction to be very interesting - potentially an historic event in progress. For someone like me, the idea of warding off the press does not sound like a situation I would enjoy and that is the main reason why I have decided not to make any bids yet. I might have been swayed to bid, but your changing the terms of the auction mid-term only served to reinforce the decision to stay out of the auction.


I think the assertion that people are spamming your auction thread is arguable. People exercise due diligence when spending significant sums of their money or taking on a potentially large liability. If you ever hope to sell this house, it might be worth engaging with your potential customers more amicably.

Unilaterally changing the rules of this auction only destroys your credibility and trustworthiness and makes it all the more difficult to sell the house in the long run, unless, of course, you have discussed and agreed upon this change of terms with miernik, your current high bidder.

Hi batcoin,

Thanks for respecting my auction and transferring debates over to this thread. It's really appreciated.

I respect what you are saying, but, see it from my Girlfriends point of view. She pointed out to me an example of a yard sale she once ran, and she was selling a PC. An old couple were going to buy it when someone next to them made a comment 'I would never buy electronics at a yard sale, its probably broken!' So when the old man came back from the car his wife said to him 'oh someone here just said that PC is broken' and nothing she could do, even offering to plug it in and show them, would persuade them that it was not broken. She was just about to sell the pc for $200- which was a fair price- but they were the only people that day who were interested. Eventually, she put it on Kijiji and sold it for $50. So some guys flippant, offhanded comment about a computer he knew nothing about, cost her $150 directly from her pocket.

See people are willing to open their mouth and say rubbish when it does not affect them in any way. Do you think the guy who made that comment would apologise and give her $150 compensation? No. As she says 'people are just jerks'

So....what is now being asked of her, is to do the same thing again but risk potentially tens of thousands of dollars of 'possible' sale. No one has a crystal ball and can say if some people, having seen the word scam, now have lost interest when they might have actually made a bid.

People get confused- read this post and you will see other peoples comments about a falling down wreck, being taken as this house for instance. All these comments add up and create a crap situation which puts off buyers.

I feel myself like a complete ass for having to do such a thing. But it was either that, or pull the auction completely. You say people should do their due diligence- agreed- but where in due diligence does it say that you have the right to slander them a scammer all over their auction? Thats not due diligence that is just 'mouthing off'.

You say I should treat customers amicably- which is fine to say coming from your position, sat with nothing to loose, but when you have started 2 auctions, and the same person spams both of them  no matter what you say, amicability falls to the wayside somewhat.

It all boils down to this- I think my girlfriend is a champion for even considering to do this. I fell crap about having to set a reserve but this is to protect her from the damage of the slanderers. How about you put something up for no reserve, let me slander you a scammer, and then we see what it sells for and you honour the bid? when you, or anyone, has done this, I think they will be in a much better position to judge and comment on the situation at hand.

Yeah, I can understand a lot of what you say. I try to take what certain others have to say with a grain of salt. It's a shame when people allow themselves to be influenced by unfounded libellous remarks - if that is indeed the case here. It will be impossible to know for sure if people were turned off by the scam accusations. My main beef with the situation was the change of terms after bids were already made.

After he said I could contact the lawyer to get the address he now says I have to wait until Monday.

There are red flags everywhere.

If you genuinely believe it to be a scam you won't be bidding, will you and if you do bit, it'll surely be for at least the reserve amount?

I was able to confirm the address and some other information (without OPs help!). The house seems to be for sale and what he has said about the house seems to be true. I had to have a guy in Germany do this for me. The OP not giving me this information when he said he would just cost me more money and time.

There is not a reserve on the auction, he can't change the rules after the fact.

If so he needs to pay me for the time I spent trying to verify his vague claims. The no reserve is what attracted me to this in the first place. The house is not worth 150 BTC and will never sell for that.

For OP to not sell the house would be trolling/scamming :(

I can't apologize to the OP because he did not send me the information I requested. Information he said he would send. The guy was acting like a scammer and I was honestest and expressed why I thought this to be the case.

He still might be a scammer. He has not verified the address or shown any evidence that he has the right to sell the house. However I now know enough about the house to be willing to pay my lawyer to look at documents sent by the OP (if they ever are).

There is no reason why OP should not have been able to give me the address of the house when he said he would. Who sells a house with out giving the address anyway?

Also trying to do this with no escrow? I mean come on.

I think the guy might be a noob and not a scammer. He really should have lurked more, or asked about running an auction here before trying to sell a house with no reserve and no information about it other than some pics and what village it is located in.

He can assume I am a troll but he still needs to follow the rules of his auction. Asking for things like an address, lawyers contact info, and if he will use escrow is not really trolling in my book but he might think so.

I am being like this because I have talked to many people in Germany about this house and have spent a large amount of time (and some money) trying to figure out if this would be a good investment. I am upset at OP because he claimed there was no reserve and he claimed he would give me information, that he has not. It seems my time is now wasted cuz now that I know where the house is and the value of the house it is not worth close to 150 BTC.

In the USA and in Thailand.

However never with BTC, never without knowing the address of the house, or the phone number of the lawyer.

To have an auction to sell a house online in a week with BTC both the address of the house and the contact information of the lawyer should be provided.


After he said I could contact the lawyer to get the address he now says I have to wait until Monday.

There are red flags everywhere.

If he sells the property in the auction then he will not be a scammer and I will apologize.

OP wants the BTC converted into Euro right away. To do that OP should prove he has the house before someone takes the conversion risk. I still think he might be a scammer but I am willing to take that risk to see if he will sell the property that he claims he has. I will take the conversion risk on only his word only. He has given us nothing else (other than some photos).

He and you might be upset that I think he might be a scammer but when someone asks you to sell BTC or transfer them just cuz he claims he will sell the house is silly.

If the guy is too scared to list the address of the house online, then he should really not be selling a house online. his behavior was and still is highly questionable. It is better to error on the side of carefulness on this forum because history has shown us that new accounts with too good to be true offers are 98% of the time a scam.

I highly doubt he will sell the property and suspect that new outrageous reserve is only a cover to avoid having to show any documents in the future.

Anyway like I said, if he keeps his word and sell it I will apologize. Time will tell.

I also had concerns that the people who were shouting the most 'scam' and trying to put people off buying the property were also the people who claimed to have the most interest in the property. So there is also a worry that said persons may have tried to put off other buyers to keep the price low. How can I tell? trust no one, is supposed to be the Forum motto......

Just watching from the sidelines...
/me scratches head thinking: If seller spent his life at auctions how come he did not think to set a reserve price?
/me at this same time this isn't titled "auctioning my girlfriends house" it's in the legal discussions not goods for sale... so... no crime no foul?

Sell to the guy who bid at 44.444 before you changed your rules and all will be well. I will not get upset that you rejected my bid, even though that is questionable moral.

Had you accepted my bid I would have let you redo the auction after we all had the time to verify your claims. It was mostly why I bid.

You really are not helping yourself here.

It looks like you tried to pull a scam and I caught you. If you really want to do this right, give us two weeks to check into your claims, then do the auction over with no reserve like before.

If not, we will have to assume you are a scammer troll and never had a real intent to sell the house :/

If you really want to do this right, give us two weeks to check into your claims

I would have let you redo the auction

This is not at all true. I said I was able to confirm the address of the house in the photos. I have no idea if you have the rights to sell the house because you did not provide the information you said you would.

At this point, after having the address and looking into the guy and the house his story seems to check out.
Anyway I am now comfortable enough to finally place a bid after all that hard work.

Dude, let me see if I understand... you are ready to give up on humanity because a soldier curses at a guy who it playing with him and his wife?

>I can't believe how uncivilised people get on a forum.

You are joking, right?

No, this thread started out with a lot of promise.

Someone wanted to take a chance on selling a physical building with Bitcoin.

Rather than welcome him and help him out, we called him a scammer.

Still, OP took the high ground.

Further posting, I joined in to defend our plucky OP only to find his next post is somewhat disappointing.

So now we're reduced to calling each other names, this property sale is likely to not materialise and we've had people in floods of tears.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things this is irrelevant but personally I thought we could do better.

I'm very much a people person so yes I find this all a bit depressing.


N.B. OP has never mentioned a wife. Chang Noi isn't playing with them (testing their patience maybe).

No offence but if I had come across you when I was in the Army, and you had an attitude like this I would certainly have knocked you out by now. However chance are by the time you arrived at my desk you would already have been pounded into submission by various parachute regiment types. Hell, I imagine even someone in logistics would have given you a shoeing by then.

However......those days are past so back in the real world, I agree that maybe I went about this the wrong way at the wrong speed. And would be willing to (and I did say this before) submit documents for checking and have someone verify me. But your cockish attitude means I would in no way be doing it with you.

I was simply trying to say in a word, that his attitude sucks. Sorry if that came off the wrong way. Sorry but Army humour dies hard.

Guys, I have NOT given up on this. I have some bitcoin ideas in mind and I am determined to see this through one way or the other. In Arduis Fidelis, after all.

Wow - just wow!

I can't believe how uncivilised people get on a forum.

I'd have thought being in the British Army would have been good training to put you above outright name calling and threats of physical violence.

I'd think you need a handful of legitimate bidders and then do the auction.  there just are not enough people with $20k in bitcoin.  so find some real bidders (presumably in this thread) and then give it another shot. good luck.

Now you are starting to get it, this should have been done in the first place esp since you were not up for doing it during the auction.

No one will just buy a house from you just cuz you posted photos on the internet.

...I am a property developer, and have done so in many places including Germany. I am familiar with the process and laws. Hence why my Girlfriend (who is a real estate agent...

This thread is full of scam-related discussion. People argue if this auction is a scam, how could the seller and a buyer scam each other, how many lawyers and papers they need to settle the deal etc. Besides those matters, there could other interesting questions.



1. I bought my first house on ebay in 2004 in Maine, USA from the internet. Never saw it.
2. I have sold to date, on ebay, successfully the following properties at $1/£1 no reserve:

4 houses in Bulgaria
1 plot of land in Canada
1 house in France
2 houses in Germany
1 Timeshare in an apartment in Sunny beach Bulgaria

When I say 'Sold' I mean, all legal contracts have gone through, and the property is in the other persons name, and I have had the funds.

I currently have pending 2 house sales from Ebay and 1 from Kijiji in Canada.

It is very common for £1 no reserve, sight unseen property sales on Ebay UK, especially in Bulgaria.


Some people simply believe that when something is cheap enough it is worth the gamble.


I had no expectations, we were willing to give it a try. The only thing we did not expect is to be trolled to the point of exasperation, or having to repeat the same things over, and over again.


Totally agreed and was willing to simply let it go for what it went for. However my reasons for having to put a reserve on have been very, very well explained in my previous posts so I will not repeat.

Instead of looking to the past, lets go for the future. Just waiting to hear back from John.

I've read the whole thread (yes, the whole thread), and I can only conclude that Goat is not a troll nor a shill, but a very poor analyst with very poor critical thinking.
Chaang Noi (Goat) is ridden with egocentrism

+1.

However, one must never mock the teacher- and the Goat has taught me with fire, just what logic really exists out here. I have bought and sold many things on eBay and in the real world, however I have never been subject to people's 'Thinking out loud'. For instance now I know that some people DO read the auction listings and then completely ignore the content, whereas my assumption was some people, just don't read.

If I take away any lesson from the last week, it has to be 'Never underestimate a F*&kwit' :)

That being said, the man had some genuine concerns albeit voiced in the wrong way. He also, by rights, did email me asking for the Lawyers information but being Friday I did not manage to reach him. So in reality I should have set this up far better and had some verifications in place to begin with.

My biggest fault is not understanding the bitcoin/escrow culture. Obviously in all my cash sales, with the lawyers involved, trust has never been any question whatsoever. For some reason Bitcoin being a completely non reversible blah method of payment has lead to a huge level of mistrust. Probably due to the anonymity of the currency. I did try to point out there will be no anonymity here due to the nature of titled property, but, I guess some people just don't get that yet.

It's a bit like the mythical hot blonde who thinks she is so hot and too good for anyone that she dies a virgin and alone. I just hope that Bitcoin does not end up going in that direction.

I've read the whole thread (yes, the whole thread), and I can only conclude that Goat is not a troll nor a shill, but a very poor analyst with very poor critical thinking.
Chaang Noi (Goat) is ridden with false dichotomies, negativity bias, confirmation bias, hasty generalization born from his egocentrism, argument from incredulity, and I believe that there was also some level of False-consensus effect which resulted in his poor judgement.

Hell, I haven't seen so such a gross collection of informal fallacies and cognitive biases in one post since Lucif's thread.
I gotta give it to you, Goat, in this thread you beat Lucif and Kano together in lack of critical thinking.

Btw, Goat claims that bitcoin_bob is a scammer because he doesn't reply to him, or that if bitcoin_bob cancels the auction that automatically "proves" that bitcoin_bob is a scammer.
Regardless of bitcoin_bob being or not actually a scammer, that reasoning is so childishly flawed that my fallacy detector in my brain just exploded.

Goat, you've been pretty much unfair to OP and you fail at critical thinking.
Besides that, honestly I doubt you have purchased a home in anywhere in the world, considering that you fail to understand that a lawyer can act or set up an escrow agent. Everytime OP was mentioning about it, it went way over your head failing to understand what he was implying to.

In any case, I still fail to understand how he fails to understand that the seller has all the risks in a non-escrow transaction.
Once the buyer you sign it BEFORE the transaction of the money, it becomes the buyer's and the deed is irrevocable, THEN it is paid.
So if any buyer was careful enough to hire a competent lawyer who does his due diligence to do all the appropriate checks and reads carefully the deed FOR YOU, there are nil chances of getting scammed with a real estate transaction.

Didn't read everything but calling OP a scammer is pretty stupid, how the hell will he scam you?

It's a house, you don't pay upfront, you first do the paperwork, than you pay. Their is no need for an escrow or anything.  :-\

I've followed the two threads with great curiosity.

Although I (like many others) felt disappointed that the house did not sell, it did not actually came as a surprise to me.

The main reason, I believe, is because the OP managed to threaten the most basic foundation of this forum - the anonymity of its users.

By offering an immovable property for sale, implying that the process will require the successful bidder to disclose his identity, I believe automatically antagonised majority (if not all) users here.

For some reason, most of the users on this forum get very upset if something forces them to reveal their identity. I don't know, perhaps most of the users are not proud of themselves and that's the reason they like hiding behind a pseudonym. But these same users are also very happy to reveal their identity when purchasing large ticket items with BTC, as long as the trade does not happen on this forum but on a different site. The mind boggles.

@ bitcoin_bob, don't despair, I see your efforts as genuine and sincere, and I wish you, at the end, manage to sell your girlfriend's house for BTC, I agree that will make a good precedent and help the Bitcoin cause.

But that's not going to happen here, on this forum - if the trolls do not pollute your thread and reduce it to a series of ignored users' posts, the resident idiots will keep sabotaging your auctions until they see you give up.

My advise would be to list the house on e-Bay (UK is the most logical choice), state that you would accept Bitcoin, and then post a link to the e-bay auction on this forum for discussions - but be prepared to ignore many of the idiots that will come and chirp-in and soil your discussion thread, as this is what they do for fun.

Well I was thinking about the idea of eBay UK, but am wondering how many people here that do NOT have an eBay account whose bids I would loose.

You could also start it here with pre-announcement on as many realty-related websites as you can get. Then the proper buyers will find it.

Paid, but stated by the seller to not have arrived, and thus "gone" forever? Proof of the payment accepted or not accepted by courts?

Qou vadis BTC, if we cannot even sell a house using this as payment?

I still think that using John here is too convoluted for this transaction, you both will have lawyers.
Simply make a notarized statement of which address belongs to whom, and that a transaction from x to y for z amount means that the funds are effectively transferred.
Then if I won the auction, after signing the deeds I would simply send the funds from my notarized bitcoin address to your notarized bitcoin address.

That's it, that should suffice.

But if you want to make it even more undeniable, just make each parts to sign a note with their bitcoin addresses, with a clear statement that such bitcoin address belongs to NAME, SURNAME at ADDRESS, NATIONALITY AND ID#. Both parties print them out, sign it, and notarize it just for the records.

ultimately, if trust is such an issue, all of this could be solved in the notaries office with a laptop.
 
Buyer- click- bitcoins transfered
Seller- sign- property transfered

House sold......

Exactly, but still for legal purposes the first paragraph of my previous post should be done as an extra precaution.
The receiving part could say that the receiving bitcoin address is not his, or to prevent accusations of having mistyped of the address or claiming that the receiving funds are from a cousin and not from the buyer (the last one would be quite dumb, but could complicate things)

If there is a signed and notarized statement that x bitcoin address belongs to the buyer and y address belongs to the seller, there are no excuses possible.
I think it is necessary as a prophylactic measure.

I've read the whole thread (yes, the whole thread), and I can only conclude that Goat is not a troll nor a shill, but a very poor analyst with very poor critical thinking.
Chaang Noi (Goat) is ridden with false dichotomies, negativity bias, confirmation bias, hasty generalization born from his egocentrism, argument from incredulity, and I believe that there was also some level of False-consensus effect which resulted in his poor judgement.

Hell, I haven't seen so such a gross collection of informal fallacies and cognitive biases in one post since Lucif's thread.
I gotta give it to you, Goat, in this thread you beat Lucif and Kano together in lack of critical thinking.

Btw, Goat claims that bitcoin_bob is a scammer because he doesn't reply to him, or that if bitcoin_bob cancels the auction that automatically "proves" that bitcoin_bob is a scammer.
Regardless of bitcoin_bob being or not actually a scammer, that reasoning is so childishly flawed that my fallacy detector in my brain just exploded.

Goat, you've been pretty much unfair to OP and you fail at critical thinking.
Besides that, honestly I doubt you have purchased a home in anywhere in the world, considering that you fail to understand that a lawyer can act or set up an escrow agent. Everytime OP was mentioning about it, it went way over your head failing to understand what he was implying to.

In any case, I still fail to understand how he fails to understand that the seller has all the risks in a non-escrow transaction.
Once the buyer you sign it BEFORE the transaction of the money, it becomes the buyer's and the deed is irrevocable, THEN it is paid.
So if any buyer was careful enough to hire a competent lawyer who does his due diligence to do all the appropriate checks and reads carefully the deed FOR YOU, there are nil chances of getting scammed with a real estate transaction.

auctioning the house again

Clearly OP died in a terrible bitcoin related accident.

Nothing to see here people, move along

But of course. How could we all forget that infamous German law that forbids Indians from buying their property.

Has this ever been sold? If yes, for what price?

The solution to your problem is doing an auction the way it done in the real world for real estate.

Each person who wants to participate in the auction has to place a deposit with the auction house (or escrow) ahead of time. Usually this amount is $10,000 USD.

The deposit ensures only serious bidders participate, and in the event a winner does not pay the winning bid they placed, they forfeit their deposit.

Work great in the real world, should work great in the Bitcoin world :D





As far as anonymity and buying real estate, I know in Germany a GmbH has been used for hundreds of years to own real estate in an anonymous fashion.

A GmbH is the equivalent to an LLC here in the USA.


People purchase real estate anonymously every day in the USA and around the world 8)

"Needs a little bit of work"
I think this is a joke. A little bit of work should include complete remove old house and build a new one.

are you really the bitcoin_bob @OP?  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlvG18AcCo

What exactly would be a "high bid"?

i also can´t see what the current bid is? how should I give up a bid without knowing who is ahead at the moment?

For those of you who have just joined us, This is a continuation of the 10BTC starting auction for a whole freehold house in Ichstedt, Germany.

The original post can be found here;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0) for those of you that want to follow.

My biggest mistake last time was not providing enough information, so, I am going to provide as much as I can now to avoid spamming of the thread.

OK so here we go:

This is a full HOUSE for sale in Germany, in the village Ichstedt and in the state of Thuringia.

The house is 245KM from Kreuzberg, Berlin, where you can buy a beer for bitcoin :)

It is also only 350KM from Prague.

Its major cities surrounding are Halle, @ 74km away, and Leipzig @116KM away.

About the house itself:

It has 74M2 of living space with 4 bedrooms, a basic kitchen. Attic and basement space not included in that. It also has an outbuilding, a garage and another outside cellar, making up a total of 180m2 enclosed space.

The plot is exactly 451m2 according to the deed. It is a triangular parcel bordering a canal which can be seen in the photos.

It is not leaky. There is water, gas and electric connections to the house. It has not been renovated since before dinosaurs walked the earth, so if you don’t want to live like a caveman I would suggest new kitchen, bathroom, and rewire the whole house plus a good paint job and sand the floors and doors. The windows are all (on last inspection) not broken and doors are secure. The garage has a nice overhead door and just needs cleaning out and is ready to park your car/campervan or caravan to stay in whilst you renovate the house.

Basically to sum up the property condition; Watertight and connected to all facilities, renovation project. This is built from STONE and wood beams in circa 1830 and it is still here now. This is a solid house.

I am going to say this SIX times to prevent confusion.

THIS HOUSE IS NOT LISTED.
THIS HOUSE IS NOT UNDER ANY MONUMENT PROTECTION.
THIS HOUSE IS NOT DENKMALSCHUTZ!
THIS HOUSE IS NOT A HISTORICAL PROPERTY
THIS HOUSE IS SUBJECT TO ONLY NORMAL BUILDING REGULATIONS.

And finally……

THIS HOUSE IS NOT BLOODY DENKMALSCHUTZ!


The location: a very picture postcard village, ideal if you want to get away from it all or start again. The internet connections in Germany are OK, this village will get an 8MB connection and maybe a 20MB connection so if you are someone who works without geographical ties this could be your biggest adventure yet.


TAXES:

Property taxes currently stand at 120 euros a year and 55 euros for water runoff (usage of the sewer system by the gutters on the house). This will go up if occupied; how much to I do not know. But not a lot, German habitation taxes are very, very affordable.

Legal fees; Will be 2.5% of the declared price on sale, plus lawyers fees and notary fees of ABOUT 500 euros, give or take. As pointed out before, Notary fees are fixed in Germany on a scale depending on the cost of the transaction. However lawyers fees are not. So depending on how much escrowing/power of attorneying/messing round we do, depends on the final legal costs. All to be borne by the buyer, on top of your bid. 500 euros will need to be sent as a deposit to the Notary dealing with the sale, before any legal work can commence.

Pictures of the house:

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/p8qkpusbd/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/p8qkpusbd/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/52n2qywnt/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/52n2qywnt/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/hijskppzt/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/hijskppzt/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/f2hz6v7x5/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/f2hz6v7x5/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/ylmkg86op/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/ylmkg86op/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/r6x8nukt5/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/r6x8nukt5/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/mmb28x13t/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/mmb28x13t/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/5zthzu861/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/5zthzu861/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/i33f158m1/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/i33f158m1/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/6f9d6ljh5/Picture4.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/6f9d6ljh5/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/x1ltvkno9/image.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/x1ltvkno9/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/bt85e597d/Picture6.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/bt85e597d/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/5gt04b655/Picture5.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/5gt04b655/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/ozxldo4wp/Picture1.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/ozxldo4wp/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/vro0gitw9/Picture8.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/vro0gitw9/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/5kmtkkbmh/Picture15.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/5kmtkkbmh/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/8fzwrffmh/Picture7.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/8fzwrffmh/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/4kwiouwgp/Picture18.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/4kwiouwgp/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/vwwd3xql5/Picture17.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/vwwd3xql5/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/p7ptnx595/Picture21.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/p7ptnx595/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/a09u3kdeh/Picture20.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/a09u3kdeh/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/jm3ejv4k9/Picture19.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/jm3ejv4k9/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/g3renh3o9/Picture22.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/g3renh3o9/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/v0zvohgwp/Picture26.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/v0zvohgwp/)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/mk0ddkc7t/Picture25.jpg] (http://postimage.org/image/mk0ddkc7t/)

AUCTION RULES

The auction stats at 10 BTC and has no reserve. Bidding is in increments of at least 1BTC, but if you say have a total balance of 111.15 btc and you want to throw the lot at me then I will accept it, as long as the previous bid was LESS than 110.

This auction thread is for BIDS ONLY. Questions can be posted on the original thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0)

and I suggest if you have the time to read the thread as I think all points have now been covered.

ESCROW

I WILL ACCEPT ESCROW. This is how it will happen.

1.   You win and send a deposit of 500 euros to the notary in Germany.
2.   On confirmation of the deposit, a ‘purchase agreement’ is sent to you signed to show we accept your bid. You then sign the agreement to say you legally agree to buy the house. You then post original to the notary, and send a scan copy to us. You will also need to sign a ‘POA’ for the notary to act on your behalf, at your local german consul, or go to Germany. I suggest you check where the nearest German consul is before getting too involved here- if they are 1000 miles away and you are not prepared to go to them, this deal is not going to work. 
3.   the deal is now legal, the notary will begin the transfer of title. You will pay the owed funds in BTC to the escrow champion who will also convert them to Euros. You will be responsible for the escrow fees.
4.   we will send a certificate of ‘all payments received’ to the escrow champion, signed and notarized. This document, when given to the German notary, is irrevocable proof that you have paid for the property and we will have no way whatsoever after that and the purchase and sale agreement has been given to the notary, to prevent the property being registered into your name.
5.   the escrow champion transfers the funds to us and sends the certificate of payment received, via registered mail, at the same time.

VIEWING ETC

If you want to view the property in the next 3 days, then contact me with your name, and ID and I will authorize you to visit and tell the local police station/neighbours you are going to be there. This will prevent your arrest. Any damage done by you will be reported to the police for criminal damage. I have to say this, because apparently the motto of this forum is ‘trust no one’ so I am trying to get into the spirit of it.

SPAMMING OF THE AUCTION

Again I ask you to post all questions and comments here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0)

as otherwise the auction just gets too confusing for people to follow.

AUCTION FINISH:

Auction finishes at 00:00 GMT Sunday 12th May 2013, however if bids come in with half an hour to go, I will extend the auction by half an hour. When there has been no activity for half an hour the auction is finished.

PM OFFERS:

I have had several PM offers but only public offers will be considered bids.

PAYMENT AND AUCTION FINISHING:

Payment to the notary to be instigated Monday and balance sent to escrow the same.

PUBLICITY:

I will continue, for the voyeurs amongst us, to update people on how the sale is going. I would like, but hold no duty, for the buyer to continue to do the same to show that such a deal really can happen. I have been contacted by the press for an interview, already interested in this sale but I have declined at this time to respect the privacy of the future owner of the property, as I don’t have the right to broadcast this sale too much, they might not want their house in the paper. I would ask any press members to respect their privacy also unless they so choose to give statement. If they are interested in press publicity I am happy to give statement myself but only in co-operation with the future buyer.

OK then…..back to the auction we go, round II. Lets see what happens!