Bitcoin Forum

Lets be clear the market of icos is mainly little bits of software built on ETH. Everything is being focused on what I see as a flawed platform.

You have to look past this short term fashion and at real projects with real innovations in blockchain tech not eth apps!

Xtrabytes is a real innovation but its invisible in a sea of eth apps that might get millions for the scammer ico makers but they will mostly crash to very little value in rhe coming year.

Forget eth apps for long term investing. You will get stung bad and the only winner will be the guys who took btc off you.

agree, too many icos are just coming to encircle money, and there are little who are focused on the program itsself, if the roadmap can't be excuted, they are just a paper or ppt

This will be changed, projects like Stratis will put milestone for the future development and new ideas. Also people could turn again to classic coins, but i doubt we can easily find solution for coruptive behaiviour in Crypto. No metter how ICO is good for early start it will always stay type of investment with highest risk, this will be even worse over time.

In present, ICOs is a place for Ponzi project and HYIP, look like as new type Ponzi in 2017. The investor not need know this project is really or not, they just hear by some "leader" introduce this ICOs good, promising, can x2 x3 in short time ... and panic invest =)).
SNT is a example nearest, I not know the reason development purpose this project and roadmap not interesting with me, but this ICO can make the ethchain congestion and delay one day :(

Interesting points you make and I agree that there could be real gems
of innovation coins/currencies but I think there are also positive
blockchain technologies built on the ETH tokens, but yes these may also
be hidden in between the other thrash coins on the ETH tokens....

I feel same with ethereum projects in general with exceptions like spectiv or xtrabytes.
Some projects feel empty. And I agree with other guy in post, your btcs are really precious.

people are only looking for money and the easier it is to earn that money the more interested they would be in joining in. and right now it seems like ICOs are the gambling game of the year. everyone is enjoying the bets they make on each of these ICOs and the developers of these are also enjoying all the free money for no work they are getting.

that is why there is not much of any innovation around. and everything is turning into copy paste.

i have to check out Xtrabytes to see what all the fuss is about since i have not gotten the chance to do it yet. but the fact that i keep seeing it advertised like this on this board does not look good at all.

If you look at all the recent crowd funds,everyone sold out pretty fast,people are willing to invest their money in it and they are willing to risk for the amount of profit they could earn and as long as this trend continues ,there is nothing wrong in making some money by being an investor.

ICOs are actually very profitable, that is why there is so much, and I do not think that will stop anytime soon.

Not all profitable and there would really be still the risk on losing money or being scammed. They wont really stop since theres only two things that do exist on the market which is a legitimate project or just a complete show off into the public just to generate money for themselves. If you are not aware on this thing then chances of losing money will surely be experienced.

There are some good ICOS but also some scam ones. Unfortunately there will always be the black sheep who wish t spoil things for the general Public. I also believe that way too many speculators have entered the Crypto markets, all the old mlm and hyip, revshare, cycler people that used to try t earn money form the Internet look at Bitcoin and Altcoins as just another way t get fast money, they have zero interest in the technology that is driving this phenomenon. I think it is also this group of people that are causing the altcoin crashes we are seeing.

There have been several threads that criticise the ICOs and how they have been coming out to raise money but the issue here is that not all of them are very much successful while some have been oversubscribed at the same time but the issue is that people have the choice as to whether they want to put their money into it or not. This is the risk that they know of before venturing into it and when they reap the benefit of their decision, they would be glad they did when the ICO came out and would equally regret if it didn't work out. The market is a perfect market where the buyer and the seller are expected to have a perfect understanding of how the market works.

you are so pessimistic, cryptocurrency is a trend that will change all walks of life, though the price pumps recntly, it will still rise in a long term.

Cryptocurrencies will do well, but this ICO token fad isn't going anywhere. Especially not when the first start being taken down for securities scheme fraud.


Securities, whether they're fiat or exist on a blockchain, have to comply to regulation. And for good reason. They need to offer far more transparency to investors than the current ICO's are doing. They're dodging the law and they're fleecing naive amateurs who are not familiar with how securities work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_fraud 

This isn't 'free market', this is scamming.   

I'm glad that several State Securities Regulators are already on this. These ICO's are giving crypto a terrible name and the faster they start complying to the checks and balances in place to PROTECT these investors the better. 

To be clear im not against ICOs and i'm not against new innovative projects. But what im saying is most of these ICOs are not a new blockchain or currency. They are simply a token wrapped up in an ETH app that might get used. Even though they are overpriced I don't begrudge projects that have true blockchin innovation like IOTA or Stratis amd yessss I am a shill for Xtrabytes. But my point is a real project good or bad isn't the issue the issue is ICO's are selling fucking apps for millions!!!

True, therefore we must be more intelligent and selective in reviewing an ICO.
Risks that arise can be minimized and prevent if we can work together to overcome the negative things that arise from some of the ICO is harmful.

not all of them are profitable, because some of them are entering the exchange with a lower price than the ico price, because new investors don't buy at ico price, but buy at lower price, and this make the ico investors, losing profit, it's a gamble everytime

I don't get why this stuff is in Altcoin Discussion, nor in any discussion related to cryptocurrencies.  They are not cryptocurrencies, they are tokens which are built on the Ethereum blockchain.

What people neglect to mention is that if Ethereum goes to shit, so do all of those tokens built on it.  And when people talk about Bitcoin maximalism, they also neglect to mention that Ethereum is therefore built to be the ultimate kind of maximalism.

Even when they sell below ICO price, the developers make money. Most ICO's actually drop right below ICO value the moment they hit an exchange. Usually because developers instantly sell a part of it or because traders expect them to.  


What you mean is that ICO speculation isn't always profitable, which is true. It's an insane risk. If you really want an ICO coin you're usually better off waiting until the ICO passes and then pick the coins up for cheap on the exchange. Even then of course, you risk buying a coin that the developers have already completely bailed on.  


Of course they're cryptocurrencies. And tokens aren't exclusive to Ethereum either even though the majority are indeed now based on Ethereum blockchain. 

That's why everyone should aware of every investment they've made or planning to invest on ICOs.
There will be always risk in cryptocurrencies investment but some people could make profits through ICO investment.
In the end, people will convert their altcoins for bitcoin as the most trusted digital currency, it just matter of time.

I leave ETH because the price action is too high for buy area, maybe until next year, I'll not buy it. Many coins show up make's trade so difficult, too many choices make me scare. Only time will tell us which one becomes the last stand coin. Just never forget using stop loss for safe investment. Good luck.

These ICO's wouldn't stand a chance in conventional venture financing.

A cute website with a buzzwords filled whitepaper (if you're lucky) without any coherent business model let alone a balance sheet? Tokens like Dentacoin and Primalbase would get laughed in their faces if they tried real investment firms at best and get jail time at worst. 

They're relying on a lower point of access, less regulation and more internet fairy dust to lure in inexperienced people. It's just like Jordan Belmont starting to sell penny-stock to average people pretending they were highly rated companies.  

Token regulation has to happen and it has to happen fast. These things should be classed as any other securities scheme before this charade ends up creating so much blowback that it hurts the rest of crypto.

The bigger ETH becomes, the less decentralized it becomes.
This is what Dan isn't telling anyone.

Indeed and well said.

I suspect the real reason for people throwing their BTC/ETH at these projects is simply because so many people have done well with their BTC/ETH in recent months/years and are looking to spread some of those profits into other ventures.

Calls the ICO crazy scammy

Says to invest in XtraBytes


LMAO!!!!

You are hypocrite, it is like pot calling kettle black, Xtrabytes is not better than all this Ethereum Dapps, having a good idea doesn't translate to success, ask Coca-cola, Apple, Samsung and co. We don't know which of these project that will survive but the few ones that will do will definitely be a big hit

the price pumped too much it will go downwards for a few time I presume but of course over time it will skyrocket. But I have few main concerns:

- that we will be fucked by the banks that will implement blockchains (fortunately for us, big companies cannot change their iner way of work very quickly)
- that more and more ETH based shitty projects will pops up. It will add more and more coins. One for each project while I think we only need 10 cryptocurrencies or so or maybe we only need a platform that provides a SDK to develop blockchains for each used cases without being able to speculate of the coins used by these "side" blockchains.

There is no innovation left to make in terms of a currency we don't need a billion different currency type coins, it is the apps that take advantage of what blockchain tech can offer and the best chance to get this mainstream.

You have a point that eth is a flawed platform but app development will continue and will be the new thing driving the altmarket not yet another currency that does exactly what bitcoin can already for the most part do since day 1.

Truly? The way ETH and BTC are currently performing can hardly be called perfect. PoW is a relic. It's like saying there's nothing to innovate about energy while still being completely dependent on (coal) miners. 

The thing is that when they announce something new, it has not yet been half a day since they announced something else, the pace of growth is appalling.

Every one is trying to jump on the next big thing, that is why these hyped ICO's do so well.

How can ETH become more decentralized when it grows,what is the theory behind it,i thought with increase in the number of users it will be a decentralized structure  ;),it is true that we are seeing more tokens based on ETH and if the company releasing the token have a good business model then there is nothing to worry,if not it is just a waste of money.

He makes a solid point though.
Single point of failure and yet even more centralization.

Yo dawgs I heard you liked ICO coins so..
I put an ICO coin inside an ICO coin for ya :D

Idiots LOL

This forum makes me laugh alot something. Most of the "ICOs are scam" promoters are the ones with gaint ICO Signatures on their tails.  

Imagine screaming "Alcohol is Evil" on Whisky T-shirts. . Lol. !

The noobs that flooded in think ICO's are legit.
They are so wired up in their own hype bullshit that they don't realize lots of coins were actually launched fairly.

A guy made a topic saying could a coin solve the scaling issues then he listed BTC and a long list of ICO coins.

It's almost like the NOOBS here don't know fairly launched coins even exist.

Reality:
If Bitcoin or Litecoin was launched as an ICO ? They would have failed miserably.
The community here back then would have laughed them off the internet.
Anyone who launched an ICO years ago would get flamed to death.

I seen every coin with a small premine get absolutely terrorized over it.
Now ?
No problem.. the bigger the scam the better these dipshit noobs think.

There is a reason why NOBODY wanted anything to do with Ethereum when it launched.
Now ?
Scam central.

This scene is a shithole.

Exactly. It's this ICO circus that's poisoning the well for serious currencies.   

A token is a way to avoid investment regulation. But that won't hold up in court and soon we'll see these companies dropping like flies. And when this does happen, people will be losing their money, there will be a lot of drama for jounalism to pick upon and it will leave a very bitter taste in the mouth of what could be new adopters of cryptocurrency. 

I agreed. Some of the current Alts market are just pump and dump except for those that have strong team and support... those are really the real crypto that is worth to invest for a long time

Pump and dumping is 'only' price manipulation. That's how conventional coin scams work. Usually not at the hands of the originators but at the hands of trader groups. 

Offering securities in the form of tokens is different. It's a bigger form of fraud than merely hyping a piece of currency. Token companies are offering their potential investors value, they make promises. This is why securities in the real world is highly regulated as it is incredibly sensitive to fraud. 

ICO tokens think they can skip that regulation by putting it on the blockchain. They think they don't have to comply with transparency laws and other forms of accountability. 

But they do.   

Most of these ICO's wouldn't survive an audit from any of the regulators. Governments are slow but eventually they'll catch wind of this and then the dominos will start falling fast.

To me it just seems like you gotta do your due diligence. Sometimes it may not work out, but if you are careful, read a lot, and see whats happening with the devs and community you should be just fine. Now this isnt to say there shouldn't be regulation because there should be. That would help the crypto scene immensely imho and would rid the scene of all these scams which would leave the good projects that are sincere and honest. This way they actually try to accomplish something rather than running away with your $$$.

Show me one ICO that completely conforms to securities regulations.   

It's impossible to do your due  diligence for these ICO's as they don't provide the required transparency to even be a security in the first place. None of these ICO's provide what investors are entitled to.

ICO is the new way of raising money. Instead of borrowing money from a bank, ICO is a safe way to fund a sturt up. Whatever people say agree or not, ICO will be booming in next 2018 and 2019. ONly real project will survive afterthat. Investors should be careful to the ICOs coming before insvesting their money. If they are lucky they will earn profit they will loose. It is the risk of investing. It is not gambling, it is the clever way to see a prospect and turn into profit. Everyone likes or dislikes there will be many ICOs next year and this year.

I do agree there is lots of ICO based ERc20 token . even ina initial days while i was trying to understand ERC20 tokens and whlie i searched in google more place i found the code related creating ICO project. Being a programmer its more than enough for me to create project. After i tried to understand bitcoin blockchain i thought it required more effort compare to ERC20.

I have been saying you can't do due diligence all along for similar reasons.
Because the scene is a scam.
Every part of it is engineered by design to accommodate anon assholes to launch schemes
..so they can walk cash in hand.

It's like playing a board game like Monopoly with a corrupt banker.
He will rip you off and that is all there is to it.

There is no aspect of any of this is even vaguely legit anymore.
Shitbirds have flocked in and there is now shit all over the place.
And all they can do is putter around shitting more and clamoring about needing more ROI's.
LIEK OMG THE RUSSIAN CHINESE GOVT IS USING ETHEREUM NOW !!!!!
RIP Bitcoin !

Altcoins are a scammy joke .

Well I think a lot of us here are not looking for long term when it comes to altcoins.
I have bitcoins and that will stay that way.
With alts, it will also stay but not for long.
With knowledge here in the forum they will know it is the way it should be.
You are correct that it will be a big lost when it took long as I have already seen that happened.

Yes, that's not to say that there's no place for Token ICO's. They could work perfectly well, it's just that right now, none of them do.

IF these token companies start complying with the securities law it could be a wonderful scene for startups. But the inspection needs to get in on this start because right now all of them, for as long as they don't comply, are a scam.  

And let's not confuse tokens with altcoins. There's plenty of altcoins that have integrity and have launched without needing an ICO, a premine, or hidden developer fees. Those coins deserve credit and not be grouped with these scams.  

The first token ICO that is able to prove they comply with US law regarding securities would also deserve respect. But it doesn't exist yet. 

I agree to you about the ICO is a new way of raising of money. I can say ICO is profitable and many people know about that. You have a good point that the ICO will gonna be popular in the next next years. Investing in different ICO is a risky but I'm sure most of them are not scam and many of them are profitable.

If it is true in the market right now is there's no real crypto then it is a lie or penipuana with them are usually not in the hands of the originators but hands group of traders. Offering of securities in the form of a token is different. This is a form of fraud is greater than just hyping a piece of currency. Token companies that offer investors their value, they make an appointment. This is why the effect in the real world very regulated so as to make it very sensitive to fraud. ;)

Exactly. My worry is that regulation officials don't see the distinction and start proposing laws against crypto in it's entirety. We as a community have a responsibility to isolate this securities fraud and jettison it away from ordinary cryptocurrencies before it's too late. 

Yes, you are right people are not analyzing which altcoin is going to pay them and many of the altcoin launching now are theme based but how long they will survive nobody don't know. But in crypto, everyone should have a lot of patience to make money otherwise you need to face a lot of loss.

A cryptocurrency doesn't promise their buyers something in return, like property or a share in revenue. It's purely speculating on it as a store of value, which is fine. 

ICO tokens promise *something* in return for buying their token. Which could be anything, but often the promises are vague and hard to verify, which is necessary for a securities scheme. 

I think it is good people will lose money and market will be more smart.

True. Trading Altcoins won't give the investor any money if they keep exchanging it right after they purchase the coin. The investor will have to learn how to properly calculate the trading fee, the price of the coin and how much coins they would get if they decided to make another purchase in a later period. If the investor knows how to read charts then that's a plus as well.

How do You get profit with out others taking a loss?
Understand basic math?

What's penipuana?
Though there is a few coins out there in the Crypto area that allow people to use Altcoins for certain online purchases it doesn't really have that much purpose for other things. If there's an Altcoin that gets much stronger than Bitcoin then there would be a bunch of stores accepting it, right now there's none. So Bitcoin will be the number one digital currency right now due to it being available for public usage.

ICO- It is not just a zero sum game.  Some people will forget their passwords and seeds so a certain number on any capped tokens will essentially be long term (infinitely long) holds. Also while some win and some lose, ideally you know more than the next guy and so you are not playing against the house, you are playing against the new newbies.

I love how you all replied here side stepping ideology.
I harp on it for a reason guys..

You all would not shut up chanting "Free Market" when I got here..
Every time I criticized a pointless shitcoin for profits you all lined up to spout off about the freedom ideology etc.. It was the mantra and official defense of the profiteer.

It's been years since I seen profiteers playing the free market retort..

It's almost like the crowd here now are oblivious to the concept.
And.. Like they think it doesn't matter.

This forum is about puttering around being a greasy sleazy shady little investard spitting on ideology for cash profit ROI'S... REAL MONEY!
You line up to position your verbal diarrhea in any angle that serves your wallet while jiggling your profiteer dick holsters around like fools.

..oblivious to the unbreakable link / context and the looming financial and regulatory consequences.
We are.. Doing this or that... So.... It's all legit then right?
Just because you got away with it does not mean it's still not criminal.

And you all seem to give 0 fucks about the fact you are ruining legit currencies and damaging crypto as a whole and Bitcoin itself.. Which is funny because it is BITCOIN which you all covet and chase.

You all here really do in fact act stupid and post stupid garbage non stop.
It's not just this section either.. Look at the rampant chronic account farming shit posting flooding the off-topic section all year round.

This is nothing but shady profiteers piling in with signs campaigns defending scam coins that just seem to continually push the scammy bar.

Many of you don't even pretend you care about "crypto"
Which is what this topic is about.. Yet you sure lined up to post bullshit defending bad behavior pretty quick didn't you?

..to defend your right to profit REAL MONEY off of pointless scammy garbage.

You keep at it Investards.. It amuses me and that is worth all the money I have.
I should start a contest for who can post the stupidest shitcoin defense retort and award them a Bitcoin prize.. It would be worth the BTC to me simply for entertainment value.

The vast majority of you all here are useless investard clowns :D

I see on the other side a good crypto for the market and many also have promising projects like ETH (ethereum) with carry contract tokens, and the most important is more thorough follow ico in a new coin project we must know its portfolio.

I have found a calendar of ICOs where you see how many days stayed for release and to read about every project http://happycoin.club/ico-calendar/
I think it's stupid just to follow the trend and run for the dream of easy money making. Yes, there is a sea of shit projects, but among this there are real perspective projects like CIVIC, you just need to read about the project before to understand to invest in it or not. And think your head, if you think that the project doesn't suggest something new and useful then it must be doesn't worth to invest in it.

The roadmap is an idea. The dev also make speculation if they can execute the plan, they made 2 successes. if not they made 1 success. 1 succes of raising fund. As the investor, I think make two speculation too. If the price of coins in the market high, make 1 success if the roadmap exectuted made 2 success. Now? It is a speculation.

Creating value.