Bitcoin Forum

You mean Yacoin price is about to PUMP.

And then ofcourse, massively dump.

but what happens, if the dumpers have no YACs left to do so ;)

Was asked to YACOIN to on the BTC-E Exchange?

btc-e said no

I think Yacoin might stay, You have Bitcoin being ASIC friendly, Litecoin being GPU friendly and then Yacoin being CPU friendly. When Netcoin is released maybe it will be FPGA friendly, and we will be full circle, lol. Who knows, right? :P

I was under the impression PPCoin's PoS was not really working yet, and that nobody else had done any development on it...

Update after reading some code:

• Nfactor is only used for memory allocation size - so it has no actual effect on the implementation; in other words, N is not dynamic
• The code is quite messy, and even something as simple as the memory allocator is broken (it pretty much ignores the size of the allocation request)

I think this one gets a "scamcoin" classification...

Did you guys read what Luke-Jr said in another thread?


Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200170.msg2117745#msg2117745

I think there's potential for a CPU only coin, but YAC doesn't seem to be it.

btc-e said no

  what mean?

NO!!!!!

They said the same for CNC.

They said the same for CNC.

They said the same for CNC.

they added CNC when CNC was .002 or close

vlaouu who knows, bter also put funny description for yac http://bter.com/trade/yac_btc you can read it. They even made mistakes  `double spreed attacks and other safty issues.` :)

This is a mistake YAC cannot be effectively farmed with GPU, and thus it provides CPU's with their own coi.

Amazon is overpriced, i get a month of 300 khash for 15€, that would get you a day @ Amazon...

It's jumping now, well 0.79

Guys, it's over. You missed your opportunity to cash out. Move on. Go back to mining LTC.

Such a foolish mentality

Such a niave little boy...Both FTC and CNC are doing poorly, but this one will do better, because it can only be mined by CPU, which costs considerably more them GPU mining. Why would anyone want to make more profit, mining a real, already tested coin, like LTC. That's just silly ::)

I wouldn't call 1 thousandth of a BTC, jumping ::)

Such a niave little boy...Both FTC and CNC are doing poorly, but this one will do better, because it can only be mined by CPU, which costs considerably more them GPU mining. Why would anyone want to make more profit, mining a real, already tested coin, like LTC. That's just silly ::)

I think you meant to say, "I couldn't give a fuck".

Logically, no. It works both ways. If I could give a fuck, it implies that I don't give a fuck already.

Same thing with "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less." People use both expressions. If I could care less, it presumes that I care already, and if someone says I couldn't care less, it means that you are at a level of caring that cannot lower, regardless of its level.

Last night, it was, oh, BTC-e is gonna add YAC, then it's gonna rocket to the moon. Didn't happen..... ::)

I think what's going to happen is that when GPU mining of Yacoin no longer appears economical, multiple people are going to post their modified cgminer source.

It's RELATIVITY. If someone bought in at .00043 and is selling now at .0008, you tell me who the fuck is about to double their profits from YAC.

If I had a modified cgminer (which I don't, I'm a PHPtard), I would release it so people started mining at a loss, thus developing the perception that they would have to hold and wait for higher exchange prices to cover their costs. ;D

You'd be better keeping it to yourself, because if these fanboys, find out that it's being GPU mined, they'll have nothing left to hold on too.

One thing to consider is that, one doesn't just GPU mine YaCoins. GPU mining YACs has to be more profitable than CPU mining YACs + GPU mining something else, otherwise it's a waste. Anyone doing it would have to believe YAC value would skyrocket.

At it's current prices, YAC isn't profitable to mine, with anything

I disagree. 15€ gets me 300 khash for a month. Pool says i get 20 coins a day (reward will rise again). 600YAC are currently worth 0.45BTC.

Last night, it was, oh, BTC-e is gonna add YAC, then it's gonna rocket to the moon. Didn't happen..... ::)

you haven't take into account the difficulty will increase and price will drop (which is typical for a new coin). both factors determine the profitability.

Incrementing N will lead to immediate hashing speed decrease. Difficulty will reflect these speed changes (i.e. difficulty will decrease after N++) with lags. As soon as block reward depends on difficulty the reward will increase also and more miners will be motivated to join after N++.  It's not easy to predict now but we can be sure that some waves will happen on each N++ event.

Amazon is overpriced, i get a month of 300 khash for 15€, that would get you a day @ Amazon...

huh, and where would that be?

At it's current prices, YAC isn't profitable to mine, with anything

Lol.  at .00001 YAC is profitable to mine for a lot of people.  Remove electric and server costs (and thief's and botnets) and there is likely a population with access to cputime with $0 cost.  I know a lot of call centers with hundreds of low power seldom used PC's.  If each gets 10Khash and the electric is included in rent, a system admin could easily work out a profit sharing deal to use the PC's on off hours.  Even at $1 a month once automated it's profitable.

Lol.  at .00001 YAC is profitable to mine for a lot of people.  Remove electric and server costs (and thief's and botnets) and there is likely a population with access to cputime with $0 cost.  I know a lot of call centers with hundreds of low power seldom used PC's.  If each gets 10Khash and the electric is included in rent, a system admin could easily work out a profit sharing deal to use the PC's on off hours.  Even at $1 a month once automated it's profitable.

Yeah, because that makes much more sense then setting up 4x 7970's, and mining LTC....Or ordering a rig or 2 from BFL, and mining BTC, @ 40w / 5GH/s   ::)
Are people really this stupid?

LOL he said BFL.  ::)

BFL has started shipping, and those who got their units, seemed pleased with them...

Do you seriously lose time for $1 a month?

Yeah, because that makes much more sense then setting up 4x 7970's, and mining LTC....Or ordering a rig or 2 from BFL, and mining BTC, @ 40w / 5GH/s   ::)
Are people really this stupid?

Yeah, just like these have https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203342.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203342.0)

K.

they added CNC when CNC was .002 or close

What? Are you banned from BFL forums or something? Jalapeno's have started shipping...

Yeah, because that makes much more sense then setting up 4x 7970's, and mining LTC....Or ordering a rig or 2 from BFL, and mining BTC, @ 40w / 5GH/s   ::)
Are people really this stupid?

Ah.  It makes more sense to use the spare 99% cpu power on those LTC mining rigs to do something, anything at all.  Unless your concerned about power and hardware costs.

It makes 0 sense to have a bunch of 7xxx cards mining LTC with Idle cpus which could generate even $.10 per month.

Tell you what all mighty, give me and everyone else using our spare cpu cycles $1 a month and we'll stop?  No? not a good deal?

It makes 0 sense to have a bunch of 7xxx cards mining LTC with Idle cpus which could generate even $.10 per month.

Tell you what all mighty, give me and everyone else using our spare cpu cycles $1 a month and we'll stop?  No? not a good deal?

I think Yacoin might stay, You have Bitcoin being ASIC friendly, Litecoin being GPU friendly and then Yacoin being CPU friendly. When Netcoin is released maybe it will be FPGA friendly, and we will be full circle, lol. Who knows, right? :P

Damn son... you're making pretty good bank there.

Actually, I think Yacoin is the FPGA-friendly choice, at least while it continues using scrypt+chacha/kekkac(32,1,1) for a couple more days.

[Omitting pictures to shorten post.]

I can't be the only one who looked at this variant of scrypt and decided that fast external RAM was not necessarily needed at N=32..

Actually, I think Yacoin is the FPGA-friendly choice, at least while it continues using scrypt+chacha/kekkac(32,1,1) for a couple more days.


[sadimg]https://i.imgur.com/iHkY6sK.jpg[/img]


[sadimg]https://i.imgur.com/wdVV6xc.jpg[/img]


I can't be the only one who looked at this variant of scrypt and decided that fast external RAM was not necessarily needed at N=32..

You should really solo mine..

Indeed.  That's what I'll be up to shortly, as I just got pushpool going for YAC.

So what is fpga and how do you mine with it?
Are they expensive?

Mining BTC with CPU early was not profitable but it turned out Satoshi and early adopters made amazing deal out of it later. There is no reason why YAC could not end same way.

I've never heard of this one...there must be two new alt.coins coming out every day lately.

YACoin is the strongest from last weeks coins.

Yeah, people are starting to care that BTC is slow... YAC be fast.

Anybody known the total amount of YAC? or it will be infinity?

If the added load on the CPUs cost more than they rake in, they are losing you money not gaining money, so unless you are just making sure you get the max electricity your rent includes, or are stealing the use of other people's CPUs, it is not always economical to run the CPUs mining something compared to letting them idle.

GeistGeld is fast too, 15 second blocks, and it is secured by merged mining so is much more affordable to mine.

How do I merge mine GeistGeld? I am very interested. So far I am merge mining NMC, DVC, IXC and whatever else at bitparking, but I don't see a pool that throws GeistGeld into the mix.

Did you do the calculations? Probably not. I'll be very conservative in my calculcation. Feel free to correct me.

I believe a Core i5 3570k makes >200kH/s now and has a TDP of 77W. Running it a day uses up 1.85kWh and makes you >8 YAC. At an exchange rate of 0.0004 BTC/YAC you make 0.3 USD/day and you break even with a power cost <0.18ct/kWh.

Yes, you don't make much, but you also don't waste money mining for YAC.

YACoin is the strongest from last weeks coins.

Thanks to whoever dumped 72k YAC bag on Bter recently and dropped price to 0.00035, got some cheap YAC there. Next time you dump huge bag try to make price drop to
or bellow 0.0003 so I can get more YAC for even cheaper.

Which part of those calculations take into account the conversion efficiency of the switching voltage regulators for the CPU and RAM on the motherboard, and the conversion efficiency of the PC's power supply?  And the increased power consumption of the RAM when memory I/O is occurring?

Don't look at me. Wasnt me.

nitpicking about details again? ;) Last time I was off by 1% with my guesstimate... it's fun to discuss though.

You are right that I should not advise anybody to mine. The guesses were based on (one of) the most efficient consumer processor available at the moment. And I personally don't bother mining.

The answer to your questions: I deemed these factors as negligible as 1) TDP is usually higher than the CPU power draw and I didn't subtract idle power draw 2) RAM is negligible (5W?) 3) if you don't have a Gold power supply (90% efficiency) you are doing it wrong. But quite frankly, these are all guesses.

What I do know is the power delta at the power socket of a Core i7 3930k, 16GB RAM system when mining YAC with 10 threads: 140W when the CPU is overclocked to 3.8GHz and it gets 320kH/s. The TDP is 130W, so whole system power delta is +10% of TDP when overclocked. Whilst this would possibly point to a non-conservative guesstimate, you will agree that an Ivy Bridge i5 3570k is more energy efficient and faster per clock than my power hog.

Another good point would have been: what about the increased heat in the case (if not open) and hence aging of components? What about the loss of hash rate in GPU mining if you are not careful and saturate the CPU?

What? I am concerned about power costs...I don't live with my parents, I have a power bill to pay. The hashrate of my CPU's, and the value of YAC, does not cover the cost of running my CPU's at %100 load, 24/7. And I'm not going to use my profits from my GPU's, to cover the loss. This is business. Are you slow?

Yeah YAC is skyrocketing!  :D

https://i.imgur.com/kQ5hypd.png

Thanks to whoever dumped 72k YAC bag on Bter recently and dropped price to 0.00035, got some cheap YAC there. Next time you dump huge bag try to make price drop to
or bellow 0.0003 so I can get more YAC for even cheaper.

yacoin is going up.

From 0.00039 yesterday to 0.00065 right now and still going strong.

You know coin is strong when one dumps over 1% of supply on exchange and no one really gives a damn.  :D

https://i.imgur.com/Z0EgE54.png

Meh, let the apples fall and pick them up at 40.

What is happening right now on bter.com is quite the contrary the title implies.

What is happening right now on bter.com is quite the contrary the title implies.

How is Yacoin cpu mining only and doesnt work with gpu mining?  I thought litecoin was suppose to be cpu mining only coin and everyone was told gpu's would not work on litecoin now look at litecoin.

This one I'm unsure about.  I thought for sure that if there were a significant number of GPU implementations floating around, someone was going to post one by now (as a claim to fame) as soon as GPU mining would have become unprofitable (which by my calculations is probably getting close to becoming unprofitable as YAC prices drop).

Anyone that has followed my posts through the days after the coin launched knows that I experimented with GPU implementation of scrypt+chacha20/8(N,1,1), the hashing algorithm used by YAC.  I never got as far as making it work with cgminer or mining with it.  I just created a basic OpenCL kernel (no cgminer interface), performed some benchmarks at various values of N, didn't bother doing any major optimizations, and decided I needed something that would go significantly faster (my GPU farm only consists of 24 Radeon 5850's and 24 Radeon 6950's), as it took me about 1.5 days to do it and difficulty was already skyrocketing.  At that point I dropped it and went straight to writing a Verilog implementation for FPGA's, knowing that I could probably only pull that off up through N=32 and would have a limited time to make it happen (in the end, I got about 1.5 days of FPGA mining in before N=64).

We won't know for sure until someone posts a modified cgminer what their hash rates ended up.  I stopped mining altogether at N=64, as that basically killed viability of my FPGA implementation.  I can still place'n'route an FPGA design at N=64 but the projected clock rates from the Xilinx tools are dramatically slower than for N=32 with nearly 4x the logic area (meaning only 1/4 as many parallel computation cores are possible in the available logic area) and it just doesn't look like it would be worth the effort.  N=128 won't even place'n'route, the design is just too dense.  So at this point I'm going to state that I believe N=64 kills profitability of any FPGA attempt (with current FPGA technology) and N=128 isn't even routable and placeable on current FPGA technology (at least without going to off-chip memory, DDR3 or otherwise).

Currently I get far more YAC by buying it up on BTER than I would by mining, with any of the technologies I have available.  My GPU farm is mining LTC right now.  If there are indeed GPU farms mining YAC, I'd be expecting them to start switching back to LTC or BTC for profitability reasons either now or in the near future (well, unless YAC value goes way way up).

So, that's about all the answers I have at the moment.

Offhand, for question (b), it appears from your data that CPU mining continues being feasible for quite a long time.  Your data shows 512MB needed to calculate a hash in the year 2023, and that's an amount of RAM that I think everyone probably has available today for hashing.  Disclaimer - I haven't double-checked that your data is correct.

On question (a), I doubt 512MB needed to hash is enough to exclude GPU's, especially a decade out.  It may be enough to keep GPU's from having a huge massive advantage over CPU's once both technologies start having to hit slow external RAM and not fast internal L1/L2 caches, but we won't know for sure until we see what the future holds for GPU development, amounts of RAM on GPU's (and thus how many simultaneous hashes can be calculated in parallel), whether GPU's start getting massive quantities of fast L1/L2 cache like CPU's, what the ratio of L1/L2 cache in CPU's vs. GPU's looks like in a decade, etc..  Probably too early to tell.  We also need to see some of the GPU implementations or adaptations of cgminer released so we can see what they're achieving for hash rates.  Unlike Litecoin, where (almost) everyone derived their OpenCL implementation from Reaper, for YACoin, I suspect there were multiple independent adaptations of cgminer that occurred with no direct contact between the people performing each implementation.  Too early to tell on that as well, or determine exactly how widespread GPU mining of YACoin actually was/is.

The possibility also exists that other technologies other than CPU and GPU options come into existence and widespread application during that timeframe that we can't yet anticipate, or that someone could identify a TMTO shortcut in scrypt+chacha20/8, as happened with the TMTO shortcut for scrypt+salsa20/8 that made GPU's practical for calculating Litecoin hashes.

Here's a couple quotes of WindMaster (who's currently working on the hard fork of YAC and future development https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.40) on GPU mining YAC and about his attempt to get GPU mining to work during the early days of release.

For clarification, I forked the source code for the YACoin client to continue development since the original developer pulled a Houdini after the coin's launch (something that will be familiar to anyone watching any of the recent alt-coin launches).  Many people in the crytocurrency community will know the term hard fork to mean forking the blockchain and/or implementing incompatible changes that would require everyone to upgrade to continue using the correct blockchain.  No such changes are planned for YAC, everyone is free to continue to use whichever YAC client they wish.  I just think mine will be the better choice once we've finished ironing out some bug fixes and added features in the coming days and prepare for a more formal release that will be worth upgrading to.  The "official" YACoin client is, umm, a bit rugged.

So when moving to the new client, new coins created from that point forward will exist in the forked blockchain only? ...coins found before the fork will be valid in either blockchain? I need to do a bunch more reading.

Go YAC, I think nows the time to buy.  Thoughts?

No, we're not doing anything with the blockchain.  We're just continuing to improve the client since the original developer dropped the ball.  The only case where forking the blockchain is needed is when changes that wouldn't be compatible with the existing client are needed.  No such changes are needed or planned for YAC.  Blocks mined will with either client will be in the same YAC blockchain.

The term "fork" in our case is the term GitHub uses when someone takes one person's source repository and wants to work on it as a separate repository of their own.  Nothing to do with the blockchain!  Just the source code for the client is being forked, because we're interested in continuing to improve it and are leaving the original (uninvolved) developer behind if he's not going to take the lead.

For clarification, I forked the source code for the YACoin client to continue development since the original developer pulled a Houdini after the coin's launch (something that will be familiar to anyone watching any of the recent alt-coin launches).  Many people in the crytocurrency community will know the term hard fork to mean forking the blockchain and/or implementing incompatible changes that would require everyone to upgrade to continue using the correct blockchain.  No such changes are planned for YAC, everyone is free to continue to use whichever YAC client they wish.  I just think mine will be the better choice once we've finished ironing out some bug fixes and added features in the coming days and prepare for a more formal release that will be worth upgrading to.  The "official" YACoin client is, umm, a bit rugged.

over all I like how the price been holding up :)  

Lets see how it holds up over 1 year

It's much better buy YaCoin than mining with current price.

You can buy YaCoin from http://bter.com/trade/yac_btc.

When the smoke from the "Great (and not so great) Coin Flood of 2013" clears, I believe:

Yacoin will still exist.
Primecoin will still exist.
Anoncoin will still exist.

Everything else is just smoke...  ;)

What the hell is Anoncoin?

first rule about anoncoin - don't talk about anoncoin