Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

I wanted to run this by you and see what you say.

What if we scrapped money altogether and just gave everybody what they wanted?

I know it sounds ridiculous, and everybody would just go for 100 cars and 100 fancy houses, but if you think about it, if you could get everything you wanted, all those things wouldn't be as valuable anymore, and it would lose it's "richness" appeal and people would be bored by it after a while and just settle with what they actually needed. Don't we have all the technology and resources to make this happen? It could also mean less crimes would happen then too.

Sidenote: I love the idea of bitcoin so I don't really want to ruin bitcoin, but hey, maybe we could go there with bitcoin somehow... :)

There were barter system in the past wherein people used to exchange one commodity for another one. After many centuries we have developed the money system for the better transaction (trading) and easy financial activities. There is a value of each and every thing, then its impossible to offer it for free; i don't agree with you.

Yes, I know. Back in the days there were trading things.

And this is meant to be a discussion to see if it could be possible now as we have progressed so much with technology. We have abundance of food in places. I suppose the issue could possibly be that someone has to "work" for producing the resources. But still. If everybody got what they wanted, that might not be much of a problem if the society as whole helped out. Since everybody get what they want, there might not be much of issues. Unless most become lazy...

Hay, why are you fantasizing too much? ... We must try before getting something ,, that's life. Nothing is instant, and bitcoin ,, we have to fight to be successful, not everyone who jumps in bitcoin become rich ..

Money is just a convention used to regulate commercial transactions. In the ancient times it was useless because people lived in small villages, commerce was not developed so they used barter to exchange stuff between them. Nowadays it is impossible to do (at least on a world-scale) because commerce and markets are too gone too far...

This is just a thought experiment where the whole idea about "getting rich" doesn't exist anymore since everybody get what they want. :)

You mean you want to remove all concepts of money? That means you are removing fiat, gold, cryptocurrency and other forms and mediums of value. I don't think it is possible anymore. That would mean we would come back to the old ages were people did barter for everything. It is highly impractical and will not reflect the current times. What if you want to buy a car, but it would cost 10,000 pieces of bread? That would be hard to do.

If we give everyone what they want, then what's the meaning of life by that point? Let's assume, people can have what they wanted easily wherein there's no work required for them, the level of cooperation we have today will significantly reduce. People will never work unless it is on their best interest (non-monetary based interest) and consider the number of people doing their life choices based on money.

And thinking crimes will be reduced when you let people have what they want is short-term planning and it's kind of infant-minded. Humans will always find ways to harm each other one way or another, because on any society whether it is old or new there's always disagreements. And we did our best to settle this disagreements through the systems we have created. In my opinion, all we need is balance.

The idea would be that you don't need to buy a car. You would just get a car as there is probably quite the abundance of them. Since most wouldn't really need a car everyday to "go to work to make money" anymore, I could imagine there will be plenty available. At least in America. Unless everybody want to drive a car everyday for some reason.

Meaning of life would be to live your life. Spend time with friends and family. Travel and see the world (for free of course). Meet new people. I think the lazyness nature of humans might be a problem yes. And, yes, there will always be crime, but if you could get everything you wanted, certain crimes would most likely disappear.

Your experiment, can make everyone bored, because there is no challenge to get something, everything is available .. Is not it going to make a lazy man .. maybe you can look for other experiments .. For example, to provide jobs for the unemployed and the poor, It is better.

Commerce is producing all kind of crazy things. "Hey, you want a fidget spinner? Sure, here you go. We apparently have so many resources we can create these things too."

You know, that reminds me. Some healthy elderly people get bored with their pension life, that they go back to work. So, as a side effect can be that when people get what they want, they will help out as they will be bored otherwise. :)

Man can do everything he needs for life. A barter relationship is very uncomfortable. The idea of money creation was good, but bankers and politicians have turned the money in the garbage. We rejoice in what was invented bitcoin. This Tenga like they should be.

There aren't ferraris for everyone, and the people in charge aren't going to let their power go to redistribute wealth. I like the idea of an open source society as described by Jacques Fresco, but unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon, we may need 1000's of years to get to that point. In the meantime, im pretty sure cryptocurrencies will be the next step, creating a global economy, possibly inter planetary, so you better start stacking up on BTC soon, for a lack of a better alt.

One thing about money, it could represent a specific quantity of time, productivity and innovation.

If someone wants 100 houses and 100 cars that breaks down to a certain amount of time, innovation and productivity to construct.

If money is eliminated some other system would arise to fill the vacuum.

Concepts like productivity and time and their relation to money aren't easily tweaked to give everyone want they want all the time. Like some said satisfying essential needs with a minimal & efficient productive effort is the opposite aim of industry.

Yeah, I don't see this happening in a long time either. If at all. I just thought it was worth to bring up and think about and see what people say. Trying to get into the mindset of it and think about it for a while intrigued me. :)

as long as there are people there will be money,period
no way to circumvent that,till there is a huge change in morale and society principles
capitalist society we are living in puts money and consumerism at the top of the priorities
it is what makes the world go round at least its what we are supposed to believe in
remove that and everything will collapse

In reality that would not work.
If everybody gets what he desires for free, then everybody just does what he wants to do.
But who does the things nobody wants to do? Like working in the channelization for example?
There are so many jobs people would rather not do, but these jobs are necessary to keep your society intact.
Money is the motivation for everybody to work.
And if somebody does not get the job he wants, he must take another one. To earn money, to lead a life.

Ah, yeah, this reminds me of a discussion I had regarding improving things and innovation. With money, companies want things to break down so people buy again. Like, the light bulb for example. There is one made many years ago (that still works? or at least worked for a very long time). But as a company, you don't want that, so you make it a bit defective so it breaks and people have to buy a new one. With a money-less society, wouldn't' there be more focus on actually innovating and make things better and better?

Absolutely. Although, this could be a push to innovate and make robots to do the things we don't want to do. :)

Equality wont really happen on this physical world and we cant really easily change the reality on which there are poor there are rich and for those people who do in the bottom would normally seek out things that would make them rich and i would say it wont really be an easy thing.For those people who had everything on this world specially on money for sure they would got bored and would seek out for somethings that would interest them and the thing you are saying here is giving into someone would really be an impossible stuff.

Can you wake up now and face reality? This is planet earth, where human wants are unlimited amidst limited means for satisfying them so you will never be able to give everyone what they want, no matter how hard anyone tries to. If as you fantasized all monies are destroyed, how would you fuel your cars, book your travel tickets or replenish your food stock when you run out of supply?

It's a thought experiment where the idea is that you think about it from different perspectives. I'm either for or against this. It's about having a discussion about it.

Moneyless society is possible right now because there is a place in China where they just use their mobile phones to make payments and it is all successful and they feel very convenient with their mobile phones to make payments in different stores or places that they go and i think if they can do it then we can do it to with the power of bitcoin nothing is impossible.

Money is just something we have value to so we don't have to trade for everything. I trade you money for your chair you sell me then you take that money and buy a steak. The money can be anything it does not matter. It is used because it is easier to carry around. Without money you will need different things to trade and you hope the person who is buying from you wants it is you won't get the trade and that is where money comes in because everyone can use it to buy anything. So Bitcoin is just the upgrade of what we call money today. It's virtuall money.

Even if everyone get what they wanted by being rich,that's not mean there will be no problem,human desire is infinite
Let's say everyone in the world are rich,they can get anything in this world,by human nature,people will start desiring something that others don't have,we can't do anything about that

Money or fiat is the system of transaction all through out the world so if we could dream for a moneyless system in terms of transaction the possible needs that should take place the money is the bitcoin. And as a form of crypto-currency it could be a better way in trading where its price depends on the stock of Bitcoin not just on the printed value like dollar or any other paper money.

And i dont agree with you too, indeed for now there is a value for each thing or anything but you can still find or did barter with someone for certain items. most of it is done by antique collectors, because like he said "they are rich people who no not care about the value of the money." what they look is pride.

In Barter system there was no money involved. It was just things were traded with things. When you trade things with things, one may get benefit of high value thing traded with low value thing ,but then money came and solved this probelm. So how and why we are discussing to move towards moneyless society.

switch to something like communism!
where the state provides you will all you need and nothing else :-)

The barter system worked at the time because you would barter
an item for something you "Needed" and the other party
"Needed" what you were bartering.

we are edging ever closer to a kind of money-less society or cashless
society anyway, I rarely use "Cash" anymore, its all online or plastic,
paying bills, transferring funds and buying goods with a card.

I believe the newer generations will pick up crypto quicker because of this.

Life aint that easy to get what you want bruh,you are not Cersei Lannister here.And what will you do after you get what you want? Sleep with women? Gamble? Drugs? No offense to anyone but common dude everyone earns money to get little satisfaction and then what ? And about the crimes that you mentioned ,it would be even difficult to figure out who the real criminal is and about the technology ,yes the world is developing but not at its very best. I know that everyone would love to be in their fastasy world but hey what can you do,none of us have the power to do so,otherwise it would have already been implemented by now.

I'm just throwing this idea out there. It's nothing all that new, and there would still be laws and police around. I was just thinking that we have quite an abundance of "things" and resources which is what this is mostly about. If you want to sleep with women, then obviously that is up to you and the women. This is obviously nothing you will just get. But, if you want a car, there you go. Want to fly somewhere? There you go.

Oh, and gamble with money for things would then be pointless I suppose. :)

OP is not here telling about the "No-Money" society.
He is thinking of the point of view that when all the fiat will be replaced by digital currency and when there will be no money, then it will be money less or rather paperless society and that is the scenario which will bring lots of complications as bitcoin involves internet and infrastructure to operate.

And who would make the products that will be handed out for free?

The reason you pay for products now is that it took a lot of manual labour to develop (either directly, or indirectly through RD or acquiring the raw materials).

If you solve the reason for different wages across different jobs, we are one step closer to this idea as every job was valued equally.

Hahaha communism doesn't provide anything for cashless or moneyless society. They only create a structure for slave labor where you don't have fun and social activities. There is no existing solution for cashless people now. Bitcoin maybe can solve this in the future.

When you say everyone have what they want, that is not true. As a human being, the human wants are incertiable and are numerous, which means no matter what a person have, he still looks for more.

If we stopped using money we'd put all of the elites out of business and would be out of their control

Sounds like a good plan

You are pointing towards barter system which existed ages back, but that is not going to work in present times. because the world economy is so much dependent on paper money. Nowadays, everything needs to have a value otherwise, the economy will be clueless and shatters as a result. Investment will have not value and nothing will function as envisaged.

However, it is better to move towards a cashless society instead of moneyless society. IF people don't get desired value to its assets, unrest will increase and people will try to acquire things by force. So the crime rate will also increase a lot. Moneyless society doesn't have a good future, at least in my opinion.

Not really. In the old time, paper money didn't exist. People were just exchanging, sugar for potatoes, tomatoes for clothes, etc. The elite would need to take control of a few industries (if not already) to get the same garbage economy again. You can't cure cancer if you don't go to the root.

This post has to be a joke. 100 mansions? LMAO

Do you know how hard and long it takes and the work required to build them? Do you think those workers *want* to do that? I don't think so. hahaha

Don't want to make assumptions but am certain you mean cashless and not Moneyless which i believe is the way to go as bitcoin through the blockchain technology has paved way for this tech to be adopted but with so many uncertain regulations in so many countries we still have a long way to go.

Then let's discuss it dude. It is a hell of an interesting topic. I really wanna debate on it (I won't cross my limits). I think, it is practically impossible and just a sweet dream. Greed runs in human blood and money satisfies that greed. People might deny this fact but you cannot judge a person unless he is in some sort of authority.

You have a wrong point of view. If everyone can get what he/she wants then there will be chaos. People will be subjected to greed and will want to get everything he/she wanted. Though no one will be treated as rich in the aspect of money and asset, but the new rich people there are those who will have the most power. This will be a chaotic world without order at all. However you are right about having less crime, this is because no law will exist due to the absence of order and everyone gets what he wants.

It sounds to me like this is quite the mindset change that might be difficult to grasp at first. Again, I'm either for nor against this. And I don't have all the answers. I just find it a fascinating thing to think about and discuss. There is no right or wrong point of view to this. It's a discussion.

If everybody got what they wanted, would it really be valuable to be greedy? Again, money would have no value. What would greed mean then? If you could get 100 cars, what would be the point if you couldn't drive them all? To show off? Again, mindset issue. Nobody to show them off to as everybody could do the same, and having many cars would have no real purpose as you can't drive them all at once anyway. The reason people fancy expensive cars is because of the value of them. Not so much the practicality always. Possibly the design.

So, I don't have all the answers either, and I do not know what would have happened. This is why it's up for discussion here. :)

It sure is a very interesting topic. Especially if you come into the right mindset about it. An open mindset. Practically impossible? Maybe. The greed angle is interesting, but if you could get all you wanted, I wonder what would happen then. After a while you might get tired of wanting it all as there is no challenge to it, and you might want to value living a purpose-filled life instead... who knows... :)

money is the need of the day. Bitcoin is getting famous and it is increasing in the price as well. The increasing price of the bitcoin makes it more trust worthy than the money people are using bitcoin more than money because bitcoin is providing a lot of features that money has so bitcoin made the world cashless soon everyone will use bitcoin to buy things instead of fiat money.

moneyless society, I think you meant paperless, since bitcoin is also considered as a currency therefore it is money. this time we are on the beginning of having this paperless society, in order to achieve it everyone mus accept the fact that there is digital currency already and that we all need to take part on this, since it has not yet arrived on its peak. there is no doubt that time will come fiat money will become obsolete and will be replaced by digital currency, and as we all know technological advancements can be done easily with digital currency, we may no longer need to carry around our wallets, credit cards or atms just for to buy things or do transactions, it may be just in a form of scanner, like we need to scan our fingerprints or eyes just to make a transaction possible. For sure there will be new ways for us to make use of digital currency, it is also much safer, since it will lower down the crime rate, in my country, those who are addicted to drugs, tend to rob or hold up innocent people just to have their money, more so, if they see you with a fat wallet, but if you told them, you're not carrying any money, what can they do, they cannot get you hard earned money for your family, it just means that your money is safe, and this is just one of the thing I see that we can all benefit from a paperless society. but if what you are saying is to go back to barter trade, you could do that, however, there are a lot of counterfeits today, unlike before, and I doubt that people would participate in this, since we now have technology and just check your smart phone, in my country if you own the latest iphone, you are considered rich, but that very small gadget you have, are you willing to trade for some apples or oranges, once you got hungry? I think there is a reason why barter exchange became obsolete, we are just becoming more and more sophisticated and becoming wiser from time.

Last year (in 2016) I read somewhere on the internet that cash money have disappeared in Sweeden. That is, in Sweeden all transactions are made with credit cards and electronic money. No other country in Europe has achieved this, but there are other Western European countries that are close to this (the Nordic Countries and Germany).  Everyone knows that the Nordic countries of Europe are very progresist and in my opinion there will be necessary other 10-20 years for the other European Countries to follow the example of Sweeden. However "classic" money have not disappeared from Sweeden. The transactions are made using local currency and I do not know when and if this will happen and bitcoin transactions will replace the "classic" currency in Sweeden.

As an anarcho-transhumanist which is a variant of anarchism that adheres to syndicalism which is closely related to communism--no not the totalitarian Soviet variant. I'm fairly certain to say that I don't see a mainstream communistic society functioning within the next fifty years due to the social climate. For communism to work, people first have to learn about direct democracy and internalize it. People have to learn about self governance and their responsibility to other people as well as to themselves. Power structures and hierarchy in general have to be delegitimized and replaced with bottom-up forms of organization in order to make our representatives accountable. In a nutshell, there is a lot of cultural work to be done first. A society that does not value, science, art, self determination, liberty, substantive rights, direct democracy, decentralization and a good balance of individualism and pluralism will not be able to function in a communistic manner. Now, if we could remove the human element and automate the economy with robotics and AI evoking a post-scarcity society. It may be possible to establish a communistic economy within a capitalistic market without having all of the aforementioned social change. Also, for anyone wondering, the reason all these glamorous social revolutions lead to despotic red colored fascism instead of communistic utopias like the revolutionaries dream for. Is because the revolutionaries themselves have not prepared for a world without rulers, they often only get to the point where they know the current system doesn't work for everyone, but not how to build a new one in its stead.

If you mean eliminating the fiat moneys in the marketplace and making things a major source of income is difficult. We have developed and High Tech are the tools now. Even in bitcoins even if you buy it in fiat moneys as the main currency in the world is also difficult because everyone needs to accept it as I live in the mountains of poor and beggars. How they can get it here if they are in the same situation. So we really need to understand the story before accepting an event

Money can be manipulated by the government and bankers thats why they inovate it to some technology where infact cant be manipulated by anyone.

Money makes the world goes round they say, a moneyless society at this day and age may cause chaos  IF the resources are not enough to provide what they want (yes, want and not needs as people will not be getting things they need only)

People today are different from people before (long time back when barter exists.)

Greed is the main enemy of a moneyless society nowadays.

Reality bites but others envy others even in small things they have, how much more if we can get all things for free.

People will not stop acquiring cars, houses etc. as people are drawn to material things already, and if that happens, there will scarcity of resources.

People will then fight over things that are in few numbers and so on and so forth...

Well, I may be thinking worst, but this is what reality is :-(

i find this post "MARXIST" at it's best, but you know there's nothing wrong with it, i know you just wanted a gentle world for everybody. but for the situation right now, this will remain as the John Lennon Song said "IMAGINE". I know nothing's impossible but i am only talking bout the reality.

if this will ever happen, you will see how greedy people can get.

There is a value of each and everything, then it can not give it for free; I do not agree with you. Yes I know. Back in the days there were business things.
Money is just a convention used to regulate commercial transactions. In ancient times, it was useless because people living in small villages, trade did not develop so they traded between them. If everyone has what they want, there can be no problem if the whole society helps. Since everyone gets what they want, there may not be many problems. Unless most become lazy ... What if you wanted to buy a car, but it would cost 10,000 pieces of bread? That would be very difficult to implement. thank you  ??? ??? ??? ;D

Money is just a convention used to regulate commercial transactions. In the ancient times it was useless because people lived in small villages, commerce was not developed so they used barter to exchange stuff between them.

Scrapping money all together will not stop the social imbalance in the system because even before the establishment of money in the world, the time of trade by barter has been fraught with several problems and with this your proposal, it means going back to the stone age where you or I don't want to be for any reason.

To me, the social system is not perfect but its still OK compared to when money is eradicated it then create a system of questions that perfect answers cannot be sought among which will be:

What will be the basis to share?

Who are those that will be saddled with the responsibility to share and their qualifications?

What will be my one condition to meet to be part of the lot? Do I get automatic slot for being a member of the community or by working among several issues.

Very amusing. I shall inquire more.

Universal basic income is a bit like this I guess, but things are a scarce resource and always will/have been. You cant give everyone anything they want simply because the amount doesnt exist.

Universal basic income sort of fits this but it is still money.  I don't think we can ever do away with some form of money system until we as a race get to the point where we can replicate what we need from he fabric of space.

Cashless or paperless society since the time when we improvized the monetary system from barter sytem to paper money and now we introduced virtual currency because we keep on innovating it might be the next paradigm shift on how to use money.

First off, we might be able to give everybody basic essentials like food, clothing and shelter, but we just can't give people everything they want, like 100 cars and 100 fancy houses. There isn't enough land, especially when you factor in the fact that we'd have to extract the metals needed to make the cars. And, second, an economy in which there is a common medium exchange will always be more efficient because we don't have to go running around making a complicated series of trades to get what we want. Seashells used to be used as currency; the exact form that a medium of exchange doesn't matter all that much as long as it's something that everybody agrees as value because the units of the medium of exchange are basically a place-holder for value. And it was understood that it's not free: If you wanted more seashells, you had to either go out to the beach to collect them, or provide something that other people might be willing to trade seashells for. So our current economic system may not be "perfect" by the standards of people who want everybody to be equal at the finish line, but at least it's incentive for people to get off their lazy duffs and provide something of value that other people might be willing to pay for.

I won't miss paper money, but what worries me more. If the world will go completely to electronic payments, we will open your personal data to everyone. Our purchases give us more information than you think. Where to get this information and who will use it is a big problem for me.

Having a moneyless society is good on its own right where in people would be using digital currencies like bitcoin as a replacement for money. But I don't think that will be happening any moment now or in the next few years. It is because people are very sceptical to change and I don't think that they will be adapting it right away.

With one word i can say you have a heart of hero,but the truth is the world donot want a hero.They only expect them in marvel and dc movies :P
surely if the wealth share equaly in the world the crime will be reduced .But why why the reach billgates will share this ?
why someone will even share that kind of technology for free unless its you .Buddy its a tough ask .being so realistic we can achive this with technology.But also that is not possible as we are human and we are greedy.

No, I don't  think it would be a good idea. If there would be a moneyless society people will stop working and get all the stuff for free. Also it would be bad for some people who work as they'll think they're not getting rewarded enough for working. It would just make the economy worse.

Money is power, and you cannot do good without power.It’s what you do with it that makes it either good or bad, and you need it to have a significant positive impact in your community or in the world.

You have goals, dreams and desires, whether it’s to travel the world, have a luxurious home or help those in need. You cannot make those dreams a living breathing physical reality without money. Money allows to free up your time. Money allows to free up your mind (if you are detached from it). Money allows to free up your creativity.

If you had all the money in the world, and money wasn’t an issue, how would you want to live your life? What would your days look like? How would you spend your vacations? What would you eat? Where would you eat? Which car would you drive? If you are connected to your higher spirit, you would get bored not contributing anything with your skills and talents, so what would you want to achieve with your life?

so we can see that ,our society is not count him who is money less.

What do you mean moneyless?
Are you communists? Even at hard-core communist countries money exist.  ::)
Where there is even one free market (for anything), there must be a medium of exchange.

Please keep in mind that every deeper move into electronic payment systems,
is "cutting" our privacy. If paper money or "real" coins dissappear,
big brother start to know your all transactions and all about you.

But this "smartphone" generation "share" everything about them and upload everything to the net.
Data grabbers are having never-ending "orgasm" seeing this.
Amen! :)

I think they mean no hard cash, just digital....

And when you woke up, it was morning.
Everything that you own is produced somehow. Even if it is by the mean of a magical 3d printer that never runs out of material there must be somebody who makes that who will ask for money in order to buy parts and pay it's workers. And from this the chain goes on.

Fantasy and nothing else.
A society with no money and with no barter system is a society with nothing or poor as hell.
Are you sure you want to live in such a world?


No, he means no money whatsoever.
We are all fairies and by magic we produce whatever we need so there is no need to buy anything.


Hihihi
Imagine right now encountering such an alien life form:
Human:     Check those bitcoins out!!
Alien:     What's so great about them?
Human:     There are 21 millions only and it's impossible hack a password
Alien , blinks :  Now there are 21 trillion and I've set all privkeys to "Futurama".

World without money can't exist, this is utopia. Money will change different forms and values but it will always exist, this way or another. Some long time ago people only exchanged different goods with each other because the money wasn't invested yet. Hope you don't want to live in such era.
Bitcoin could be substitute for one kind of money in virtual world but still it can't replace fiat money in whole and for long time this will not change.