Bitcoin Forum

Please Share How Devcoin has changed your life in this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfvFsDLhMC0

I know for a god damn FACT that I am not the only artist being supported by Devcoin and Devtome. Can we please get some halleluiahs up in here.

There are enough people, developers, artists, getting paid out, why should we post "testimonals" here? It's not like DVC is some sort of prize shop where you have to verify actually receiving your prize. We know people are receiving good amounts for their projects, why do we need another spam topic from you to praise that? Seems unneccesary to me.

Agreed. This is completely unnecessary and reminds me of those fake Clickbank squeeze pages. Devcoin is in the infancy stages right now andits likely that it is not life changing at the moment at all. This is especially true given the weak exchange rate.

Also, all press is not good press at all. You see how many alt coins get released on a daily basis? People are getting sick of alt coins and they are getting sick of Devcoin with all these topics you are creating

All press is not good press.  In general, I don’t subscribe to the theory “If they read your name it’s a good thing.” If you think that’s the case, ask Toyota if the media about the recall helped them, ask Lindsay Lohan if being arrested every ten minutes has been good for her acting career, or speak to anyone who’s had negative media what so ever.  Press can be very harmful, and it’s not always a good thing.  That being said, it’s something that at times could be used to a companies’ benefit. However, a company needs to know where they stand on the totem pole.

Well said. DVC is a brilliant idea and has great supporters behind it. The constant spamming of DVC related nonsense simply dilutes the purpose imo. Keep it all relevant and in one of the myriad of threads you already have going.

Exactly. FinShaggy doesn't believe it, but he's spamming so much useless DVC stuff just so he can pump 'n dump, it's giving it horrible publicity. Worst thing is FInShaggy is an adminsitrator and actually get's paid DVC. *shivers*

DVC is giving BTC a bad name ..its all you

No, but it would be nice to hear the good things devcoin has done, vs having the forums full of bad things that the trolls pretend devcoin does.

Enough is being heard of things DVC do, and trust me, none of that is thanks to you.

You guys are all just butt hurt.

Devcoin has changed my life.

I now have a webcam, xbox, video games and means to pay rent. My job is on YouTube, so these things have drastically changed my life.

I have tripled my YouTube video making capability
I have gotten far more writing done than I ever did before

And it's all thanks to Devtome.
If anyone is giving devcoin bad press, it's you guys.

I have gotten about half of my devcoin devtome payout, I plan on using the other half on correcting the market, instead of bitching and moaning about the market and pointing blame like you guys.

Its nice to be paid for doing next to nothing isn't it? I don't think Devtome was designed to be a replacement for an actual real world job but hey easier than standing in line for welfare huh?

You're for a part being paid for nothing and doing useless things. Congratuatlations, you get DVC, dump it all to fiat, then pump untill you get your next payout, dump, and the cycle continues. And you can't and shouldn't "correct" the market, you cannot correct the market, it is based on supply,demand and what is being mined. And we're giving bad press to DVC? Seriously, if I vote with all supporters of DVC, if you give DVC good or bad press, I'm sure it'd be bad press. Heck, I'd bet 1BTC on that if you're up for it. We're not being butt hurt, you have to realize the truth.

Then sell all your DVC and fuck off, and I'll have fun laughing my ass off at you in about two months.

Why in the hell should I sell my DVC? I'm a DVC supporter and don't have any intention to convert it to BTC or USD currently. And why would you be laughing your ass off? Also, you haven't responded if you'd want to do the bet. It also seems you're getting a bit angry, getting angry you're getting exposed about your actions?

Actually I'm pretty sure if anyone is getting angry it's you. 1. Mad about my posts. 2. Freaking out when I told you to sell your coins

I'm simply asking for people to tell the world how Devcoins helped them, if you don't want to tell the world, then don't. We don't need you here complaining about a good thing.

I agree it's good to get more attention on DVC, but there's a difference in bad attention and good attention, and trust me, it's not my complaining on this topic that is keeping people from buying DVC. I don't understand how you can be so ignorant to not get this, I don't get angered often but you need to see what you're actually doing with your life, because from what I see of it it's quite pathetic. I'm sorry for that, but seriously. You're giving DVC bad press, your spamming of topics is not helping, you spam 4-5 posts in a row in topics, I don't understand how you can't see that what you're doing is only bad press.

Fin Shaggy.

You are EXACTLY the opposite if what most of us want devcoin to stand for.

There is NO ACTUAL DEVELOPER interested in your bullshit rhetoric, crazy conman antics, or YouTube marketing.

You provide nothing but noise.  

I mean it's seriously enough that I've come to be angered by you for no rational reason.

You may succeed in a massive pump on devcoin, but you and your ilk will kill the (stated) "spirit" of the thing as surely as cyanide.


Wait, so it's YOU behind the giant dump that has recently crashed devcoin prices?
Enjoy your x-box and your web cam.  I think I just heard a market lose all support.

EDIT lol i can't post fast enough I keepe getting warned about the people come here to beg you to shut the hell up and go away.

^^THIS is the kind of inane shit we're talking about. You started a thread to hear some "hallelujahs" but instead within 15 posts your attitude degenerated in to this crap. Boelens and I are BOTH big supporters of DVC in spite of the lame cockamamie ideas you continually dream up in your pot-haze filled room with the Xbox and Webcam.

Devtome is a beautiful thing, and lest you forget, YOU are the reason I found it and contributed my own 38K worth of articles last round. I appreciate it, really I do, but seriously mate, you need to relax a bit.

This isn't spam. This is me asking people to tell stories of how Devcoin has helped them, and you trolling me hard core. I don't see how you feel like you've proven anything.

LOL You're acting like he didn't talk shit. At least I am being respectful to these people. I haven't told a single person to eat shit, or fuck their moms or anything. I've just been sitting here taking he trolling and letting it happen. Do what you do, but it's going to be over in 15 minutes and no one will even give a fuck. And even if it last a month, no matter what, it will end, and I will still be here, and so will the videos I made.

So get over it.

Stopping the quote pyramid here to prevent a huge spam, but I am in no way trolling you. Don't you see all the other posts? Doesn't it ring any bells to you?

You obviously want to share so, lets hear how Devtome/DVC really changed your life. What did you do for a job before them? Your register date isn't too long ago, so you must have been very derelict, right? Do you get state-sponsored aid (i.e.: welfare, housing assistance?) or do you get disability? I'm guessing here that you didn't have a job before hand as the $$ from your admin shares and PPWC have grossly improved your life. No trolling, I genuinely want to know--if its made your life that much better, I'd love to hear about it.

In kind, here's how DVC has changed my life, although I still haven't received any of my Devtome payouts yet: First off, I see DVC is a unique idea, brilliant way to give little bits of appreciation to people who get little oftentimes for open source, creative arts, and real, life-changing work (volunteering/etc). Second, DVC being merge-mined with BTC gives it immediate legitimacy as a currency, even with the (currently) very low exchange rate and dilution of share value since Devtome's recent thread count on this board. Last, DVC has a very dedicated long-term group of supporters (though like yourself, I'm a fairly recent one) who have worked to create the amazing backend for distributing DVC to those who need it most.

When I read your thread about Devtome, I initially thought it would be awesome to dump a bunch of shit on to it and sit back and collect, and in kind, I did do that, publishing a bunch of my college papers and some how-to's I'd written for my personal domain (its been online since 1999, did you have the Internet back then?). Something happened as I started writing though, and I got back in the groove; after being out of school for a couple years--it felt good! Perhaps you've noticed my eloquence and fluent writing style, I'm not so bad at prose myself. So armed with a new found vigor, I wrote a 13,000+ word article on what of all things? Creating scrypt clone coins. Ha, Ironic eh? I relish the fact that in round 96000 I am going to make a few bits for that guide and have begun a second, more ambitious article. This one will be about how to troubleshoot these clone-coins, a (hopefully) all in one reference for all the bits that people just can't seem to work out--and a great place for me to mirror my work with the side effect of earning a few bits for my effort.

Now everytime a clone-coin comes out, I bounce through the source. There are quite a few with my hallmarks in them, maybe a -qt.pro LIB order here, or a diff algo change there, or maybe even my copyright left intact (thanks 6coin and nuCoin). Did I mention I never once got a single Satoshi for that guide? Nor do I expect to get any for the next iteration. Truth is, I'd have published it on my own website simply for the notoriety of showing up in google when someone looks for "MUTEX_SHARED_WINDOWS_BOOST aww $%*&". So is it life changing? Yea kind of, I've learned more about programming in the last few months than in a couple years at university. Thanks to you, I'm going to get a few BTC worth of DVC for it too!

Devcoin has totally changed my life. Praise dev!
I remember buying some devcoins for .000000150 and selling them for .000000141... that day changed my life.

Lulz but no rly I guess devcoin is good for developers and such who get paid with it if they're getting a fair rate but I can't say i've ever seen anyone (even on the interwebs) who has said devcoin has chaged their life, excluding OP, no offense.

I will break your post into segments

1.
Before Devtome I had a series of jobs (I will start at 19 years old, when I left TX). I worked at an avocado warehouse, where I was 1 of 3 English speaking employees on the floor.
I got a "helper" Mexican that couldn't speak English, and I was told to train hi so he could help me do my job. A week in, I was fired.

Since then I have been living from YouTube paycheck to YouTube paycheck, and I haven't been able to get a job no matter how much I apply. I was in Florida for a while, and had applied at abunch of places, one being a grocery store. 3 months later I'm in Colorado and I get a phone call asking if I need a job at the grocery store in florida. Other than YouTube, that is the only work opportunity I have for about a year

I wanted to go to college when I was a kid. I planned on doing community college, getting the basics done. Then moving on to a bigger and better school. But when I got older I learned, you need money for that. And no one had prepared me. Yes I had had jobs, but not $100,000 a year ones. And since I got a full graduation highschool diploma in juvy my junior year, I didn't get the aid of a councilor, or anyone who could help me learn what a student loan is let alone get one.

But with the YouTube checks, I have lived on less than $500 a month (including rent) for the past 8 months.

Well then, in the spirit of the original thread, its kick-ass to hear DVC has set you up better than you were before!

I'd wager if you'd posted your story in the first thread along with the call to hear others' stories, we'd all be sharing and bob's your uncle.  ;D

No harm, no foul, some of us are really here for the community and DVC has a good one, you included :)

That is awesome. Why couldn't you come here and say this write away instead of bashing me. This is exactly what I was asking for.

I did post my story, I just did it in video form. I went back and added it in written form now though.

Excellent, it is a success story and others should hear it. That said, I don't watch YouTube nearly ever, so I had no idea thats what your link contained. Now that its in print, I am actually going to watch the video as I know what to expect when I click the link. As I am a writer, I am a reader and prefer my Internet in text/graphics rather than audio/video, but hey that's just me, I'm weird.  8)

Now not only is there a testimonial of devcoin financial blessings, but a story of redemption through non-heated discussion,

Well, glad to hear you're actually posting something good now, and DVC did help you greatly. I still don't agree with your posts, but, glad this isn't a very useless thread now.

None of the threads have been useless, you guys just haven't taken the time to pay attention. Or pick the ones that are for people like you.

I dunno, there's a couple in there that aren't so great, I think that's the point of this whole kavetching session we've just endured. For example, I'd say "Devtome Girl" is a pretty useless thread, though I've said my peace on it and won't drag it up again. FWIW, post more substantial threads with more clear and concise information in them and I will give them more credence and less disdain.

I like conversation, and I like debate. I also think both can be had without resorting to the F bomb or showing titties--but hey, again, I'm weird. Remember, you may think, "All press is good press," but the truth is it isn't. I'm not the morality police either though, so take it with a grain of salt.

If getting a new webcam and an xbox is life changing, then you need to stop smokin so much bud and quit trying to start cults

You can think the devcoin girl thread is useless all day, but there are people on that very same thread that say they bought coins just because they saw her video.

That is not the life changing part, the life changing part is the fact that I have been a struggling artist for over a year now. And now I struggle no more.

Do you want to know why? Do you SERIOUSLY WANT TO KNOW WHY? Because you've been lying to people over the past few weeks saying that Devcoin was at some point $10. You got her to say it, and you said it yourself. You even spammed it, made threads about it, videos, posts, etc. That's why people bought them.

Because you basically sold lies to the community so you could pump n' dump. Instead of actually thinking, about how your 'pump n' dump' could affect the community, you instead started to tell people about Devcoin being $10. Which also got us attacked by trolls.. And other people.

So yeah, you got people to buy Devcoin.

But not for the right reasons.

AFAICS this question hasn't been answered and is pretty interesting

Devcoin was not really a "thriving economy".  It's quite possible that someone dumping enough devcoin into the market to pay a month's rent, buy several pieces of brand new electronics, and take a little trip would cause the current market condition.

Not to mention how wonderful I'm sure it makes everyone feel to know that we just paid Fin Shaggy's rent in exchange for his "services to the community".  Services that we have all appreciated, so much.

I'd like to know how he plans on "correcting" the devcoin market - WITH MORE DEVCOINS!!

His investing knowledge, I see, is something that is beyond the rest of our ability to perceive as well.



Seriously.  ::)

The price crashed way before Round 23 started paying out (which I think was FinShaggy's first payment), so it wasn't him (go back to the old thread to see when the drop happened - from memory it was late-May and the consensus was that a whole bunch of new merge miners were selling. And if you think about it for a moment, he's just admitted he's financially dependant on the price being stable, so why would he crash the price?

His hot words are simply the result of being constantly stalked and bashed and accused of pumping and dumping. Yes, very childish to respond with a "right I'll dump coins then" - but he's been goaded to that point.

I get that some don't like FinShaggy - but why don't you use the ignore button? Why the constant stalking and cyber-bullying? Haven't you got anything better to do?

Agreed. We all have our opinions about finshaggy, but it's a free market and not up to anybody to determine what others do with their devcoins, or litecoins or bitcoins or dollars for that matter. The success of any crypto does not rest on whether a person wants to buy and sell, or buy and hold, and there's no accounting for poor economic rationality. And fwiw the dvc move has been similar to that in may other alts, such as ppc, nmc, probably due to the issue alyssa raises as well as a greater shift towards ltc speculation, mass alt creation and most likely just trends. It tends to be when sentiment is extreme that markets turn anyhow. On any promotion of untruths and/or relentless spamming, there I agree, but that's a different issue and largely (in my opinion) the result of others playing him to their own perceived advantage. Unfortunately that's life.

Depends on which "crash" you mean. The fluctuations that I was accustomed to seeing in devcoin price have settled way down and trading moved from .00000115 - .00000130 and settled in comfortable at <.0000008 - .000001 since the last week or so. It seems incredibly obcvious that there was a dump when the shares paid out, and there's just now starting to be some signs of recovery - in time for Fin Shaggy to get paid again.

This is a re-stabilization (in short terms but regarding comparable time frames) of the market down what, 30 - 40%? 

Was he solely responsible for this?  I doubt it.  But how many people do you think just paid their rent out of the devcoin market cap?

And how close is Fin Shaggy's next payment?


Actually, it seems to me that he just flaunted how little he actually knows about trading or markets.  And that he dumped heavily into a weak market, at a bad time becuase he had so many devcoins it was worth it to him.

And also the fact that he's getting so many devcoins that he could PAY HIS RENT in a sorely depressed market and still have money for toys.

Speaking metaphorically yes, I think he's ignorant enough to kill a chicken that would lay eggs for years so that he could have chicken and dumplings for dinner.

He's going to correct the market with his next payment?  Do you not see the irony in that statement - the obvious implication that he's either lying or completely living in a fantasy?


In my analysis, that's backwards. His being constantly stalked and bashed is the direct result of his words and his ridiculous antics. 

For the record today is the first time that I've spoken out either to or about Fin Shaggy. And despite some of what has gone on in this thread I think you'll find my points clear and legitimate, not trolling or "Cyber-bullying".  And the reason it's happening now is two-fold:

His antics the other day when he got "back on the job" really sorely offended me and pissed me off.  When he shit all over the thread requesting ideas I was surprised that he was even being still tolerated at all. 

Then, yesterday (well 2 days now) I found out that he is not just some random idiot spouting off all of the time, that he is actually compensated for this behavior.

 That that while he's supposed to be getting paid to help advance the cause of the devcoin community, he is in fact alienating most of that community with a RAH RAH BULLSHIT cheerleading pump of devcoins to people who don't understand so that he can pay his rent off of them.

That's Just Awful.

[/quote]

We first started noticing a slump in price on May 30th - see here on the old thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2327364#msg2327364). That's when the price went from about 145 satoshis to about 105 satoshis. Most likely miners selling - though in this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2338711#msg2338711) Vlad thought it was down to the bitcoin price dropping from $130 to $118 - also a likely cause.  Since then the bitcoin price has fallen to $100 and devcoin has tracked it down. I doubt that is due to FinShaggy!

Fair enough. Do you think he's helping?

Well I think he's an offbeat character who sometimes just gets carried away with his enthusiasm  ;D  I don't think there's any harm in him - I think he's promoting madly because he really believes Devcoin saved his life and can save others too. Unthinkingbit bit made him promoter after he'd done loads of threads singing the virtues of Devcoin!

My view is that we're not a business, we're a community and good communities tolerate off-beat characters. It's perfectly true that the other alt coins are more professional, and well, sales-aware - but that's because they really are about pump and dump and not being a pro hurts that, so they mind what they say. I like to think Devcoin is a little different and less cookie-cutter...

Regarding the price - obviously it's disappointing - but we just need to sit it out and wait for bitcoin's price to rise (which will pull the main alt coins up too). IMO nothing will happen till September/October - that's the traditional season for WallStreet to meltdown, and this year we have the added fun of Cyprus ending it's capital controls in Sept too - all designed to create renewed interest in bitcoins and cryptocurrencies in general.

Actually I'm still shaking my head over that.

You switched to giving some prices in USD.  But devcoin isn't traded against USD in most markets and in fact has fallen in proportion to BitCoin, while Bitcoin has fallen vs USD.

According to your numbers it was worth approximately $.0001885 USD/DVC (.00000145 * $130 Bitcoin) and moved to $.000105 USD (.00000105 * $100 BitCoin).

This means that while bitcoin has dropped something like 25% Devcoin has pushed down nearly 50% (relative to USD). And frankly devcoin has not been trading near that 105 number for the last week, trades have been happening as low as .00000040 with most volume between .0000075 and .00000095 on the exchanges I'm watching.

That is not "Tracking it down".

Regarding Fin Shaggy, we can agree to disagree.  I feel that his antics have crossed the borderline form silly to destructive some time ago and he should be removed. Others may obviously disagree.  My OP in this thread was an address to him directly and I stand by my opinion.

EDIT: sorry if the flash edits are confusing, sooo much formatting with the quotes ;)

Well, that's why I initially thought the price drop was down to new merge miners selling. From their point of view it's cost-free to merge-mine Devcoins, and when they have expenses to pay they sell their devcoins rather than bitcoins. According to someone on the old thread there was a sharp increase in the numbers of miners in May.

However, the price of bitcoin does affect the other cryptocurrencies. When bitcoin is in the press a lot there is huge interest generated, and some who think it's too expensive and that they've missed the boat pile into altcoins. All the altcoins rose in April and they've all fallen back as the press interest has waned. So the bitcoin price affects the altcoins indirectly.

It was at one point at that price, it was a mistake (someone bought all the cheap coins, and sold theirs for $10), but it happened. YES under false pretenses, and I have made that clear from the beginning. But if we work towards ACTUAL development, and start writing and creating things. The coin WILL raise value naturally. The fact that it spiked so high is just proof it can happen again. And I never advertised that devcoin would be worth $10, I simply said it had been before. The goal now is to get it to one penny. And that will be done through persistence, not through bashing the guy talking about devcoins history. 

1. Never paid rent with the coins, just said I could
2. Buying an Xbox and Capture card do not destroy the market, you can see the marke being destroyed by the drops of 2million+
3. What trip are you talking about, I'm visiting family because of my dead brother and devcoin did not pay for that
4. You will see me correct the market soon, let me fucking get home first as I have said over and over.

That's just it, no they don't.
No matter what website I go to, these people find me. I have put together a formula, (Idealism = Troll Food)

Just that sentence makes me think you're the troll here. Idealism isn't "troll food", but you need to know reality, and that you're being crazy. Also, there's an edit button, stop making 3-4 posts in a row, please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqreEZKNHiQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6AWKEEEN-Y

God, both of you are so bad for the community it's not even funny anymore

It's not me. I can tell you EXACTLY who it is.

There have been about 40 people writing for devtome and mining for coins for 2 years. Those people have piles of 100,000,000+ coins MINIMUM.

They saw me talking about devcoins and got excited/nervous, they saw the flood of trolls and they got scared, and THAT is where the dumping is coming from.

So buy their coins while they are cheap, because once the devtome shares end up being like 1,000 DVC each, those coins that people are selling in fear are going to be worth A LOT more.

We need a like button, and if we had a like button, I would say we need a love button.

Idealism IS troll food. I dare you to now, go post a project idea that you don't have the money for. Don't even ask for funding, and see what kind of response you get.

But it needs to be idealistic, like: A free America something like that, not just "I want to open a kissing booth".

Let me get this straight, I just need to find someone willing to make a video confirming something I said in a video, and then we'll all get rich, ya?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mgfV_MJ3LI&feature=youtu.be

Count me in brah!

No, I won't, as I don't have any idealistic ideas, and if I did I'd work them out so they'd actually make sense. Also, you're saying people get scared due to "the flood trolls", yeah, and that flood of troll is you.

I never mentioned a flood of trolls, I said troll food. And the fact that you have no idealism proves that you don't even have the capacity to understand my perspective. So at least try, or you will be ignored after your next post.

I was talking about this post :
And just because I'm not for a "FREE AMERICA ALL SMOKE WEED AWLWALWLALW" doesn't mean I don't have any reasonable ideals.

Wait, holy shit, I just watched that "Mon Corpus" video, is that for real?? Four Loko?? Wow, now that's some uber awesome press for DVC. Anyone who drinks that is SURE to be in the know guys, come on!

Sorry, I'm cyber bullying again, right? Good lord, if you put it out there, you're gonna get some flames. Devcoin girl is
pretty lame (again, again, again)...not to mention its apparent she's reading a script. "Devcoin until I die, because its easier than getting a real job."

Now there are 3 videos saying it will be $10, who else is up for making one or 8? Shiiiit, I need some Four Loko myself!

Dude, we found her because she made that video. There was no script. And if it's not your cup of tea great., give it a thumbs down. But don't hate on it, because before people like you came and started shit talking it, it was getting people to buy coins. I had nothing to do with the video being made, but I thought it was pretty cool that it was such a beneficial thing.


Until people came in and decided they needed to bring up some negative aspects, and devcoin loyalists none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mgfV_MJ3LI

For real brah, I'm in. Seriously, I am in. I have over 1m DVC now, so to have 10m $ would make my month, for real.

Look, in all seriousness, you need a bit of levity here. Everyone keeps coming back and pushing buttons because its easy to do, (ala trolling, you might say). Let some of it go, you've got a good thing going with DVC, let the haters hate.

And to anyone who thinks me buying and Xbox, or Capture card, or video games with a few DVC is selfish, don't forget that I bought that stuff to start the DVC cameo program. You can now earn Devcoins for appearing on a Xbox YouTube video (as soon as I get home)

I have so many people on ignore, that soon I won't have anyone to talk to. I don't know what else to do.

I guess at least there is controversy, and where there is controversy, there is attention. That's not my goal, but that's what someone is going to twist this into. I seriously just want to be able to talk about the history and glory of devcoin in peace. That's what I want.

don't hate on our assclown share dumpers who don't know the difference between a market and limit order.. it's comedy!..thanks

Seems like FinShaggy has now ignored me, my first ignore, what an honour!

I sense a new Devcoin will be $10 meme coming with shaggy's ugly mug as the pic

I sincerely love how NOBODY can answer the question "Why do you hate Devcoin?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_frHl7o5uAo

I doubt if anyone hates devcoin.

This guy, OTOH...

Even though you make negative comments about Devcoin, I have to say that you are pretty entertaining...

I make negative comments about devcoin? Are you sure you're not mistaking me for someone else? =P.

Hint: I'm a pretty big DVC supporter.

I resent you for this.

It wasn't worth the time it took me to find out what it said.

I hate it every time someone does that.

Glad I made you happy.

I don't think this word "happy" means what you think it does ;)

Where IS Fin Stoney lately, anyways?  Haven't seen him around for a while I'm starting to have interest in devcoin again.

Oh I know what it means. And no idea, let's hope he stays away.

He's obviously paying his rent ala DVC ;) Takes awhile...