Bitcoin Forum

Weak banking (especially across countries), low regulation or collapsing central banking control in some parts of Africa may come to the Rescue: Zimbabwe abandoned its currency in 2009 and accepted rand, dollars and euros amongst other countries- what if Bitcoin was around and Zimbabweans could have another option of moving their money to Bitcoins? Bitcoins are almost like a modern day “gold standard” (without the physical weight and all the benefits of low transport/transfer costs) due to its low abundance and showing increasing liquidity as more people use it. Look at the real time bitcoin transactions and charts here. And hey look, I can buy a Bitcoin for $113 from someone in Nairobi, Kenya vs the current market price of $94 on Mt Gox.

I am starting to see some countries allow multiple currency accounts simply as a services, even if they require a lot of paperwork to get them going. Even a bank like Bank of Africa, which touts its pan- Africa presence in 14 countries, contintent wide reach is only a marketing gimmick, you can’t just walk into a branch in Benin and take out money from your account in Kenya at present- the cross border banking services have not caught up with reality.

Facilitating Africa Cross boder portability, payments and E-commerce: I have seen it with my own eyes during my overland travels between Kenya and Tanzania, how local land shuttles act as a cheaper and often more convinient or percieved trusted means of exchange across borders. Mobile money is not solving this yet even though Vodafone owns M-PESA and has stakes in 2 bordering countries. In other words, I can’t use M-PESA in tanzania to pay an M-PESA agent in Kenya. Why would I need to do this? The  very shuttle I use between Arusha and Nairobi only takes Kenya M-PESA. This hits upon an important point that often hinders African economies- not enabling enough regional trade that would help boost economies- using a cryto-currency like Bitcoin may help enable this without adopting a single currency like the Euro which has to be mandated by Governments. As we know, Bitcoin is a decentralized currency with no central authority. That freelance coder in Zimbabwe, if web services around the world started accepting bitcoin, could now pay for cloud computing services and solve a key issue that I believe could be holding back some emerging market skill. To be frank, its just too hard for the likes of Amazon to set up a local sales/billing subsiduary to charge someone in Zimbabwe- bitcoin would enable that. In fact- services like Paypal should really be doing this, but because their model is beholden to working with local banks, they can’t move here. Now imagine the ecommerce or freelance service that needs continent wide or global means to accept money- think collaborative consumption services like Airbnb or Odesk built in Africa start being used by early adopters, not paying your local utility bill. I believe these services might be the first to accept bitcoin given the global nature of their business working with small amounts of money transfers regularly. Someone could feasibly earn $50-100/week with regular low cost transfer payments.

As a store of value if you don’t trust your bank or as “Mattress 2.0″: The value of bitcoin has gone up quite a bit and it can be considered a form of investment (with risk)- its a form of “digital gold”- so rather than watch your money get eaten by banking fees, inflation or even the Governments or other world authorities actions, you can use bitcoin as the “money under the matress 2.0″. Most africans probably invest in real estate or move ther money offshore to a more stable currency- but what is a stable currency that you trust is the Euro in Cyprus like the russians thought? There is no reason to believe that like Zimbabwe, we might not see similar situations in Africa in the future. Only time will tell if bitcoin is a good investment- there was already a major hack in 2011 that caused the first crash in Bitcoin and maybe if we have lots more bitcoin mining activities, the laws of supply and demand may bring down the real value and hence real prices of bitcoins down to earth. The risks are there, in a different form but are these risks as acceptable to you as trusting your bank, mattress or buying gold?.

The world is watching bitcoin right now and maybe it gets over-regulated and banned for mainstream use fearing risks and disruption, but even then, a set of libertaerian geeks will continue to use it for some underground transactions. One likely option, is that it becomes a new form of currencyunder the  right global regulatory conditions and is allowed to thrive- something like this bitcoin exchange merged with wallet and payment startup, Ripple. But there are clear opportunities for global or pan Africa financial inclusion that could facilitate the rise of talented workers to earn and spend real value unbound by governments and central bank, benefiting that freelance Zimbabwean coder more than someone in the western world. Like steve jobs who took illegal music downloads and created itunes, who will take bitcoin and create a trusted pan african currency service? If I had my way and was a true renegade I would create a tech development bank backed by bitcoin, for techies, by techies with offices in every hub in the Afrilab network- but now its all getting to my head and this post will become more of an Apri’s fools joke :). But the iHub could start mining bitcoins during idle time in their new super computer cluster for starters and make coins more widely available amonst the tech community.

I really do hope financial revolution starts from Africa out. The people there need it more than anyone else.

I really do hope financial revolution starts from Africa out. The people there need it more than anyone else.

Yay, the screenshot shows "millibits"!

Financial revolution, in Africa? Not anytime soon.

I really do hope financial revolution starts from Africa out. The people there need it more than anyone else.

I really do hope financial revolution starts from Africa out. The people there need it more than anyone else.

+1

In a report dated January 2013, the World Bank says sending money to Kenya costs about 9.2 per cent of the value of the transfer, which is lower than the 11.89 per cent average cost for remitting cash to African countries.

Kenyans living abroad sent $1.17 billion in 2012 as per Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) data. The total remittances figure is, however, much higher since CBK data does not capture cash sent through informal channels. Remittances to Africa are estimated to have hit $60 billion in 2012.

The most expensive sending markets in the sample are African countries, specifically South Africa, Tanzania, and Ghana, which measure 20.7 per cent, 19.7 per cent, and 19.0 per cent

Financial revolution, in Africa? Not anytime soon.

Getting fees lower than 9% would indeed be a financial revolution in Africa.  Is that really so impossible?

Any way to invest in kipochi or buy shares?

Bitcoin will be widely adopted in Africa when they realize how it's convenient for buying AK-47's and selling smuggled diamonds :)

Nice misconceptions and stereotypes you have there.
Unfortunately the ship has almost sailed in Africa, most countries use mobile phones for payments, but the market was wide open until just recently. They still paid in goats(to stay in tune with your approach) not so long ago.

Unfortunately mobile coverage is much better than internet access and the same goes for the costs of phones vs. computers.
Another factor is the simplicity of paying with your mobile.
I still think there is a lot of room for BTC, but as i said the mobile providers beat us to it and im sure they wont like to share.

I really do hope financial revolution starts from Africa out. The people there need it more than anyone else.

With all the shouting going on here you would think Kenya would know something about BTC. Alas no. Doing a search on Nation.co.ke (our major newspaper) only finds 1 result. This article :

http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Bitcoin/-/957860/1747854/-/item/1/-/t958ik/-/index.html


So what about The Standard then? (http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/)

"Mombasa in spotlight over ‘currency that improves lives’ Bangla-pesa"
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000085013story_title=mombasa-in-spotlight-over-currency-that-improves-lives

...only 1 comment mentioning BTC...


What about "Money transfer service to boost diaspora remittances"?
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?id=2000017219&articleID=2000017219

...still no mention of BTC...


Even the new local Kenya forum (i think set up be weex here) is boring :
http://bitcoins.co.ke/... no action there.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/search/node/bitcoin? (I see they use Drupal...)
"Your search yielded no results"

Kenya is still at the "we are all on facebook and its so cool" stage, so be patient and bear with us.

There are a lot of africans worldwide working in foreign countries and sending money back home to their relatives. Once they notice that sending money via Kipochi is a lot cheaper and faster then using Western Union or MoneyGram, I believe it is about 10 Euros per transaction, then they will switch easily. So the start will be outside of Africa with the emigrants sending money back home to their families.

And once they notice how easy, fast, cheap and convenient it is, then it may even go viral in Africa!

With all the shouting going on here you would think Kenya would know something about BTC. Alas no. Doing a search on Nation.co.ke (our major newspaper) only finds 1 result. This article :

http://www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/Bitcoin/-/957860/1747854/-/item/1/-/t958ik/-/index.html


So what about The Standard then? (http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/)

"Mombasa in spotlight over ‘currency that improves lives’ Bangla-pesa"
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000085013story_title=mombasa-in-spotlight-over-currency-that-improves-lives

...only 1 comment mentioning BTC...


What about "Money transfer service to boost diaspora remittances"?
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?id=2000017219&articleID=2000017219

...still no mention of BTC...


Even the new local Kenya forum (i think set up be weex here) is boring :
http://bitcoins.co.ke/... no action there.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/search/node/bitcoin? (I see they use Drupal...)
"Your search yielded no results"

Kenya is still at the "we are all on facebook and its so cool" stage, so be patient and bear with us.

Nigerian princes, princesses, and the like are rejoicing at this news! Yay, more ways to scam/fleece the fat westerners out of their money!!!

"There are risks, however. Bitcoin has proved itself to be volatile, fuelled by speculators – although this is not something that Africans are unaccustomed to. M-Pesa as a brand might be a trusted one, but the more abstract connection to Bitcoin might be a harder sell. Currently, Kipochi above all else represents possibility, as M-Pesa once did."

the best you can do is spend btc directly to kenyans.

If this takes off in Kenya and Bitcoin becomes a mainstream global system then its possible that Kenya could fast become an economic super power

Kenya news via the grapevine :

The Treasury has introduced a 10% excise tax on all money transfers, which will inevitably lead to generally higher prices, and the unfortunate consumer will bear the burden.   It will cover not only bank transactions but mobile phone cash transfer systems such as M-Pesa and even the PO Savings Bank.   “Its impact in the short term will be inflation and increase in the price of goods.”   There is also a risk of creating an extensive “underground economy” which will deprive the Treasury of considerable revenue.   A levy of 1.5% on the customs value of imported goods for railway development is already in force.   The Kenya Revenue Authority missed its revenue target for 2012/2013 financial year by Shs.81 billion, although it showed a growth of 13.2% over the previous year.    Part of the loss was attributed to “a shift in consumption patterns towards products with lower or zero tax rates.”

Depriving any Treasury of revenue is the number one thing we should all be striving to do.

Kipochi has been very quiet for a while. Wonder whats up.

No response to my queries, and no updates form Pelle on http://bitcoins.co.ke/forum/showthread.php?tid=72 or anywhere else it seems.....

Have set up an account but cant buy with MPesa yet, plus no info on fees and no way to transfer BTC out to another BTC address.

Gotta agree with you there. This type of self-defeating policy is exactly what with bring about the Bitcoin revolution that much faster.

This makes the so-called kenyan financial revolution a very mess. MPesa has alone horrible fees, combine it with taxes and the kenyans are soaked with every transaction they make, their income goes more and more to two monopolists (safaricom & state). This is terrible, I start to like our banking-system

Kipochi has been very quiet for a while. Wonder whats up.

No response to my queries, and no updates form Pelle on http://bitcoins.co.ke/forum/showthread.php?tid=72 or anywhere else it seems.....

Have set up an account but cant buy with MPesa yet, plus no info on fees and no way to transfer BTC out to another BTC address.

Months have passed; so what now? Has anybody ever used Kipochi? Apparently not.

A few guys set up an account and sent some bitcoins only to find out that you cant transfer BTC out to another address.
Just another Nigerian Kenyan scam, forget about it and move on.

Can you still find where they wrote about it? I would be interested in the details.

I suspected that.

Bitcoin is a competitor to M-Pesa. Why should they cooperate?

Because they want to make more money.
Paypal should start using bitcoins and take some fees for it... If they are smart.

Right!  That would be a smart move for sure!

Apparently M-PESA started accepting bitcoin directly, not seen any details yet though.

Apparently M-PESA started accepting bitcoin directly, not seen any details yet though.

That would be a miracle. If anybody finds any evidence for this, please report! Since I am in Kenya regularly, it would even make my life easier.

Couldn't find anything on it so I guess its another misunderstanding (candidate donations approved was another in the hearings). Closest I could find was this on the BitX purchase:
http://www.coindesk.com/software-firm-buys-africas-largest-bitcoin-exchange/