Bitcoin Forum

It really is ridicuous, a bunch of script-kiddies and wanna-bes just copying-pasting and calling themselves developers.  Such an embarassment.  The only alt-coins with any hope:
Litecoin: Added scrypt, the first to increase confirmation time, had first mover advantage to get critical mining mass. 
PPCoin: The first Proof-of-work coin, though has not really caught on. 
Novacoin: This copycat combined litecoin and PPCoin and it actually had a chance.  Except the "developer" was a total scumbag, lied about pre-mining, bribed the exchanges and lost all credibility.  Still trades at 0.35-0.4 NVC/BTC, though pretty illiquid. 
eMunie: the most interesting new one, not yet released.  Totally different codebase, not just a copy/paste hack job like most the others.  Still, it's use of "interest" to early adopters is very ponzi-like and really will only harm the currency in the long-run.  Looks though like it will not be "pre-mined" and have an open, pre-announced launch which is refreshing from most the other sh*tcoins.

Quite the judgmental individual.

PPcoin introduced proof of stake, not proof of work. Proof of work is the standard block subsidy.

Litecoin also wasn't the first coin to implement scrypt.

At least make a nice post without spelling errors and incorrect information when you're promoting something new.

You're wrong actually, it is being premined by the EMU Foundation. It may also be closed source.

They clearly state it is open-source on their forums.  If it changes to close source, then it will be as dead as Ripple will be (even moreso without ripple's marketing).  Also, where did you hear about a pre-mine?

No they dont state its clearly going to be open source. Read the discussions on the forum. Its likely to be closed source at least initially. The premine is definite and the creator wont budge on that.

Read the forum to learn about the premine. They call it preallocation.

I try to understand your logic of something having interest as being a Ponzi-scheme.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme), ponzi scheme means only the early adopters get the benefit, while the laggards head off to lose. But my understanding of eMunie system is that everyone will get the benefits from interest, early adopters only get better interest when the network grows, but that doesn't hinder the laggards from gaining profits either.

And since there is no cap on how many EMu can be minted per year, nor total amount of EMU ever to exist, how can the late comers lose? if not out of their own stupidity?

On the other hand, Bitcoin, is definitely a true definition of ponzi-scheme, even it may lack some characteristics as pointed out by some economists.

It's only going to be closed sourced in the beginning and the reason is obvious: not to have many copy-paste coins competing with original e-munie

Let me clarify the pre-mine and closed source accusations:
There will be EMU Foundation at the beginning, as stated in this latest update:
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/emunie-latest-technical-and-feature-set-ramblings-29th-june-2013.143/

The foundation will consist of several key members who contributed to the project, and not just the founder Fuserleer. The members of the Foundation will be voted by others and no one can just buy their way into the foundation without genuine contribution.

The Foundation will have a certain amount of reserve set at the beginning for these purposes:

• giveaway to people
• fund project development
• bounties for various services
• buffer the high initial interest rate due to rapid network growth (so early adopters will not gain huge unfair advantages like Bitcoin or all other altcoins so far)

All spending from this Foundation reserve will be reported publicly on a quarterly basis.

eMunie will be closed source at the begining because of these reasons:

• agile deployment (the client will be constantly updated, improved until we find a nice balance where the network becomes stable), after this period, it will be open-source
• stop copycat alt munies

That is disappointing about eMunie being closed source and pre-mined. We should rename it YAScoin (Yet Another Sh*tcoin)

Can u even read? 

They have been open and up front about what their intentions are before it is even released. Hardly a sh*it coin.

eMunie is a useless shitcoin there  ::)

Yes, another useless shitcoin. Thats us.

What some of you fail to understand is fuserleer is making a currency, not a commodity. Some of you would be more at home with redcoin or what ever the flavor of the day is.

Those of you who believe in alt-currencies should come check the project out and see what it has to offer... ie changing the god damn world where btc failed.

Thank's for the explanation.

rofl.

You fail at logic. Shut up before you really embarrass yourself.

Why would he be failing at logic?

As long as it's closed source it's utterly worthless, and premine certainly doesn't help.

Are you trolling or what?

Are you trolling or what?

uh oh - its started - as i said previously:

"We all start at zero"

dont call it that way, they need eMunie for the working, and would you like your hard work get copyed on day two from start up. give it some time to mature and make it then open source.

and most of all this isnt even an "alt coin" this is totaly new innovation.

Thought I would chime in over here and clear some of these "issues" up :)

Closed source

Initially the intention was to throw this out as open source when released, and it still was until recently, but I had a number of concerns.

Firstly, this isn't just a simple BTC rip off, it's a totally new code base, that lends a few BTC ideas and nothing more.  I've spent a lot of time, invested a lot, will continue to invest a lot more, and have a long term plan of where I want this to go.  Putting it out as open source to start with would leave eMunie and that goal open to being undermined by "script kiddies" that just rip it and copy/paste it and throw out their own. 

I do this full time, its an endeavor by myself, funded by myself, I have no additional income at present other than financial investments and live off my rewards of my previous projects.  I'm sure anyone would be pretty pissed if that was the case for them, and some nobody came along and stole all that hard work and your thunder.

Additionally to that, eMunie will not just stop at the currency, a faucet and a gambling site (I'm being coy of course to make a point).  I have in the works a LOT of infrastructure that will spring up around it, to ensure mass adoption and longevity of the project, instead of it just stagnating like BTC and others.  That is going to cost me to set up, and not a small amount either, and any alt's early on could take advantage of this infrastructure and again, reap from our hard work.

For those reasons, eMunie will stay closed for 12 months.  I'm open to individuals obtaining a copy of the source code with full disclosure, an NDA agreement and such, if they want to verify as a 3rd party there is no dishonest code in there, but for now, that is as far as I am willing to go.

Premine

Firstly, anyone that thinks we/I shouldn't be allowed to recoup at least my investment through a pre-allocation is living in a dream world.  I have to eat after-all and as stated above this is a full time project using my own funds.

Past that, the allocation will be there for a number of reasons, to support the infrastructure, giveaways, and hopefully in the future, an eMu will be worth enough that allows the pre-allocation fund future development and services to support it.

Finally, due to the nature of the model we are using, a pre-allocation is needed to buffer any initial inflationary spikes, as this could lead to very early adopters having a huge advantage over everyone else.

eMunie is supposed to be fair, and without that, it would not be.

Consensus

Both the above points have been discussed extensively with the current community supporting eMunie, both of which were shown high agreement when looking at the overall picture.

If you weren't in on the discussions, then maybe you should of been a part of the small community and could of voiced your opinion.  I do not make these decisions, the community does.

It's hard to remember sometimes, when we're caught up in our heads and the forum drama, that there's a real world out there.

Fuserleer, don't sweat it man, you're way out ahead of the field right now.

Nobody who wants to do real business with your product is worried about you making a buck off of it, and most of the clear heads here have seen that some coins in hand up front is a necessity for getting things done.

Same for the open source bit. 

Every time someone comes in this forum and talks about being the first to do something you and your team have done, I have a good laugh about it. Keep it up man.  Every person who ever visited this forum could hate on your coin, it's still going places.

Wrong.
As long as it's closed source it is by no way worth of any trust, hence nobody will use it, hence you will have wasted your time spent coding.
Keeping it closed source will have exactly the effect you think it is preventing instead.

Either you release the sources or don't bother releasing at all: it may or it may not be successful, but as long as it's closed, it's certain it won't be.

Strange, I've developed closed source projects before that required major trust from the user base and those did just fine.  If they hadn't I wouldn't be in a position to do this.

You're an idiot. How many times have you inspected the code base of newly released coins? Virtually everyone here - even those that are more savvy than most - just git clone && make -f src/makefile.whatever (or for those less savvy, they grab the precompiled binaries). Being open source does not automatically indicate that it is safe. Being open source does not mean that the precompiled binaries are not loaded with trojan code. Being closed source does not preclude trust.

Damn someone better get out there and explain that to all the worlds top software companies before its too late.... ::)

You better let Microsoft know this, they could be losing billions.

this is getting more and more entertaining ;)

Lohoris - your original post made u look like an idiot so u edited it but guess what?  You r still an idiot.

I bet those projects weren't digital currencies, aiming to be an alternative to centrally controlled modern currencies, yes?

You need context of course. Some programs will be fine as closed source, some others need to be open to be taken seriously.
I didn't think I had to explain you that, but apparently a whole bunch of fucking retard assholes spawned here.

I Think really Lohoris brings up legitimate questions - there is probably no need to attack each other here yet.

I totally agree that environment matters as i said previously, i'm a eMu supporter because i support  any diversification that will lead to evolution same with "Decrits" .

I don't think Lohoris was attacking the principal so much as making statements about the  environment in which these systems exist.

that being said , I also understand that eMu has a lofty goal of changing or shifting that environment.

I will state that for that to happen , other things will have to move or appear to move to us the observers. 

Thank you, I'm very relieved to see some people actually do think out there : )

honestly?

Any talk now is just speculation. If people want to bring examples of failed coins, such as RuCoin, Ripple, etc. because they were closed source, think again!

Don't confuse correlation vs. causation.

They failed because they added no innovation/value and they appeared to be just GRQ schemes for the devs, that's why closed source did not work for them. Talking environment!

Honestly.

I think you should take a step back , I'm no enemy of eMuni I'm here to benefit myself and some of humanity , i will be johnny on the spot supporting eMuni when it is released if i think it is viable .

I have no large stake in any other system, I really don't see an eMuni type system as a threat to Nibble as the environment sits right now. 

I think the market is infinitely large enough for many Crypto/digital  distributed currency systems , and with the slow motion train crash of the "western" Empire a vast degree larger.


have you ever stopped as thought about this:

Bitcoin has a CNN ticker, and a ETF soon, and most people in the world don't have a clue as to what it is.

now information environments are my thing , so i will have to see if i can be innovative and successful in the promotion of Nibble , it being fixed and rare - but a transactional money system is a whole different world.

so you see , there is a large market out there .

What is the hype surrounding emunie again? This sounds exactly like Ripple but with a 'mining' network.

The inflation is going to be huge. But I haven't read enough about this coin to make a proper assessment.

yeah, you better read the article from the latest update link above before making a judgement and calling it Ripple - nothing in common.

No doubt plenty of software applications which serve a purpose can be HIGHLY successful being closed source.  I mean who would not trust microsoft or apple (joking?).  However, open source is the best way to have the most progress with the least resources - just look at Linux, an open source project which I think most would agree is a bit more secure than Windows:)
 
But cryptocurrencies in particular need to be open source since trust is essential.  People "trust" the alt coins since they are all just clones of bitcoin which has huge trust since its source code has been scruitinized under a microscope by very smart and able coders in the community. EMunie being a totally new code base does not inherit any of this trust these alt-coins will.  The reason the alt-coins fail is not due to trust, it is due to they offer nothing new and any are very unfair due to pre-mining.  Satoshi only pre-mined the first two blocks (and the first block the coins are inaccessible) then released it to the commuity.   Those fortunate ones who saw the potential (or were just messing around) did well - and I bet many sold long long before the massive price appreciation.

I think any closed source crypto-currency is doomed to fail since success requires wide spread adoption which will not occur.  Not in the enthusiast crypto-nerd communities who need to serve as the base for these types of projects and are critical to helping them get established.  A pre-mine, even though not an automatic fail, definitely greatly reduces enthusiasm for the system. 

The fact is the worry that someone will "steal" the open source code and steal eMunies thunder is an unrealistic problem. Look at bitcoin, it is opensource and none of these altcoins, even Litecoin, has a fraction of the following.  Hell, most peopl who mine litecoins I suspect just convert them to bitcoins on the exchanges! If eMunie is a great and novel currency that serves an unmet need in an innovative manner, it will be adopted and people will stick with it versus script kiddie knock-offs since it will be the established parent currency.  First mover advantage is everything as is the allure of being with the official currency and not some hack.

I mine primecoins for example...why?  Do someday trade them for bitcoins:)

Hey, at least he's trying to pack his shit(-coin) in a nice package, gotta give him credit for that right...?

Is that how money is spelled in retard?

Closed source, what a disappointment. Yet another 'Ripple' . . Oh yay!

For the record it wasn't the developers idea to start it as closed source, it was, debated apon, then pressed apon him by the early members (and for many good reasons).

I dont think matters whos idea it was , I think it matters what the reality is .

And how that reality ends up being  interpreted by the wider community.

Personally so far I only see good things coming from open source ideas .

I really believe that people that work on open source projects will be paid in may and various ways  for all the work they do.

The logic of the debates on this forum all seem to be way too btc universe centered.

If it was me starting such a venture, and wanted it too be adopted as a proper currency worldwide, god the crypto-nerd communities are the last people I'd want as my base for getting it established (obviously this is my view and not that of emunie).

As for insta/pre mine, relative to that big wide world outside, all cryptos started within this community are instamined.

If you'd spent time within the emunie community you'd quickly become aware that emunie's communities main focus is developing a useable stable crypto currency for joe public. There's no focus within the community about loading everyone up with premines and pumping it up as high as they can in value vs USD or BTC etc.

THIS

+the only "reason" to be closed source is that they want to defend the premine, which is quite a dumb idea.

damn thats some big ass font.

but you are so wrong....black just doesn't cut it in that font size

You got that right.

Ok name one single cryptocurrency that isn't premined or instamined?

CAP (I'm sure of it).
BTG (not so sure but I belive it is).
and the list goes on.

excuse me ?

The first friend.  Nibble was the first -

Hyoshi purposefully lowered block reward on a sliding scale - bless that boy , and as a result there was Zero Pre-mine and Zero insta-mine low hash people are still mining right now , i'm the most proud about that thing right there.   

after Nibble did this it set the Precedent and Digitalcoin followed , even though there was some allegation that there was a pre-mine , i think that block was scrapped .

Cap Currency was also a fairly fair start -

Sorry I don't really think you get it.

How much do you need it broken down?

ALL cryptos that started here are instamined.

If any crypto ever becomes adopted in the big world, they were all premined within this little crypto community (btctalk or similar)? NO?

By the time anyone outside the crypto community hears about them the f%^k was instamined out of them.

Emunie is no different.....but get this.........its.....not centered on this or associated crypto forums, but on their own forum.


Generally when a troll on this forum screams instamined, what they are really saying is "why didn't I get a cut"

Never mind that I personally don't trust any closed source thing to get crypto right, can you even objectively call something that's closed source "decentralized"?

Closed source premine, yes this is the right way to go.

Yet I really wonder who on this forum even uses their nationalities fiat(money)? I bet no one uses the USD/GBP/EURO anymore because its too closed source haha.

The only reason eMunie is even mentioned here is not to get this communities approval, but to see if this 'highly intelligent' community can break it/game it/etc.

You are not the demographic, and if for some reason the crypto world uses it will be by pure coincidence. It gets very annoying breaking down large picture stuff for people who all have the mind of children. This isn't a game, this isn't a side project, this is a CURRENCY.

You all handle the bitching, we will handle the adoption. Thats why eMunie is even here, is for you to bitch and try to poke holes. Thanks for doing your part ;)

Are you even serious?
This is so dumb I have to quote it for posterity.

Honestly, I gave you benefit of the doubt and thought you might have been misguided, but after this retarded sentence I know you are really as bad as it looks like.

Please inform me oh holy one ;)

But wait!

Before you go on, please provide the following:

1. Age
2. Birth Place
3. Education Level
4. Experience
6. Current Residing Address (no, parents house does not count)

There you have your prerequisites for even speaking toward or near me.

My time is both limited and very valuable, thanks for understanding <3

this all went down hill very quickly .


- Kelsey  my only point of difference with regard to an " information environment" advantage is that , well, that is life.

if when Google was an IPO if i didn't believe in the Internet , I wouldn't have known about it or purchased it .

people are buying gold and Silver at "domestically" very high prices right now , they are accounting for the environment in the future .

Cryptocurrency is no different.

but that is a very distinct and different point -

because anyone can find cryptocurrency or use it.

information access and physical inaccessibility are completely different things , not that i'm against some pre-mining for other Cryptocurrency , just not Nibble (of course).

You sound just like those Nigerian Princes that want to send me money! Where do I send my SSN?

What do I want with a caravan that's got no fockin' wheels?

I could get a few $ for my information aswel..

I gotta love this thread, please keep it going :D

Can break or game what? You guys won't even answer basic questions, so how could anyone try to break the system? It doesn't have to be open source, as long as it is planned eventually, and a premine (imo) is not a big deal as long as a lot of the money is given away and the emunie developers won't have any control over the monetary system like ripple. Those things make sense from certain viewpoints regardless of what the majority of the get-rich-quick jokers here think.

But not one actual formula for anything has been posted, or even any actual detailed mechanics, and ecoinomist essentially admitted in my thread that the monetary system will be centralized. That is a problem.

Once the beta testing is done the whitepaper will be released,  as eMunie is still going through changes releasing the whitepaper now will be pointless. The developer is a straight up guy who is trying to make a fair system for every one. I know my word doesn't mean much, but eMunie will be a game changer.

His intentions don't matter if the system is not secure. They likely won't matter if the system is centralized or completely unscalable, either.

Never said a thing about the monetary system being centralised. The Foundation? Yes. The system? No!

=> How eMunie Works: Block Tree Transaction Chain Model (http://ecoinomist.com/emunie-block-tree-transaction-chain-infographic)
http://ecoinomist.com/images/emu-wallet-chain.png (http://ecoinomist.com/emunie-block-tree-transaction-chain-infographic)

What's a mediator? And your pretty infographic has nothing to do with the money supply. It also explains precisely nothing.

lol! A man after my own heart.

To the rest of the basement dwellers: Please, stop on by the forums and check this action out. If you don't find the info you are looking for, make a post and ask! I know this sounds outlandish and all, but the emunie forums function just like the forums here at bitcoin talk... you are looking for the button that says post. Hope to see you all soon.

x0x0
billotronic