Bitcoin Forum

The price of New Blade and Mini Blade was announced by rockxie.

Price will not be fixed. There is price variance because of the difference of tax, delivery fee, labor salaries and so on.

The price in EU  maybe higher than  that in China mainland, Taiwan , HongKong and Macau.

See more details:

http://vdisk.weibo.com/s/Jk4aV

In english please

Or you could have just put the numbers:

10 GH - 18.88 BTC
5 GH - 9.88 BTC

Not worth it.  But people will probably pay it anyway, since it's ASICMiner....

Seems fairly reasonable to me. Will order two 10GH blades when they become available.

What? 10 ghash miner is worth less than 5 BTC ....
Wouldn't buy.

not worth

New Blade 10 GH - 18.88 BTC
Mini Blase 5 GH - 9.88 BTC

Whoa my other post disappeared. I was looking for a translation of the paragraph below and the other text. Also google translates friedcat as roast cat :D

The price of new blade is less more than my original prediction of 24 BTC.

Anyone with roi given 18% difficulty increase?

Unfortunately, still overpriced.

For you suckers out there, this is the time to buy! Strike while the ASIC blade is hot?!

So the price is going down faster than the blades are mining? what a surprise!

I hope that is accurate... slightly cheaper than my estimate of BTC20.

I hope those "10GH/s" actually do 13GH like the previous version.

Regarding the price this is the Google translate of the first note

 IIRC, this upcoming series is not overclockable, but would love to read information to the contrary.

Was there any information about when they will be up for sell and when they can be expected to deliver?

If they were actually available to ship when announced it might be worth it....

5 Gh/s is about $740ish
10 Gh/s about $1500ish

assuming BTC at $ 75 each.

That's a lot better than what "in hand" hardware is selling for on E-bay. Or, at least, better than what the crazy "buy it now" prices are.

Heh. Crazy stuff...

Iam so excited about that. I cant wait till they begin the sales

Guys? GUYS?

These units draw power a lot. Also they're very much overpriced.. Have you checked competitors (not BFL, BFL is not a competitor) products at all?

https://i.imgur.com/E5DDTNW.png
http://btc.re/?t=miningcalc

<=> Investment return End of the World or Never  :o

There is competitor who sells right now? I mean no pre-order shit, pure selling.

Hilarious! Does that calculator really spit out that result?

I don't know but BFSB products are shipping next month.

the new blade will delivery at July 20......

FTFY

Haha. They do have PCB design and chips already and it's been tested already, too. And you can mine long time with those boards...

Yes, you should try it yourself  ;D

just my 2mBTC of calculation...

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=1400&diff_mincrease=40&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=10000&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.60&dpowcon=30&dleadtime=2&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=52&action=calc

Please fix power consumption and diff increasements on your own.
40% / month are more than likely.

compare btc buy-in and mining buy-in results in USD as well as in BTC.

disclaimer: I am AM shareholder and own some UBE soon.

how to earn back your roi i wonder?

There is one critical flaw in that calculator.

The difficulty is increased at 30 day intervals. Even if set at 40% that is not reflective of reality.

If you decrease the interval to 14 days and 20% for that period, you'll see the end number change quite drastically.

I know, because I created an excel sheet to do this. I included the ability to change the period. The frequency of the difficulty change makes a dramatic difference in the overall sum of btc collected over the course of a year.

The calculator is (really good) but it doesn't have a realistic frequency for difficulty changes. So the numbers it gives are drastically different than what it should be.

Because of delivery fee, tax and so on, the price maybe not fixed.

Does it really matter when they keep lowering their prices faster than their hardware generates coins?

Thank you. just the calculator I'm looking for  :)

+18% forever of course.

That 7,300% increase per year.

You guys do realize there is an upper bound for difficulty and that is based on currently available hardware efficiency (MH/$ and MH/%).  Miners won't deploy new hardware when it is unprofitable from day 0.

TLDR It only makes sense to invest spare cash for the BE blade, not cash derived by selling BTC at current prices.

do they say something on the launch date ?

Still just better to buy the BTC in that case and wait for them to lower price even further  ;)

Irony.

This said in a thread where people are buying miners at a loss.

So tell me again why people won't be buying hardware even when it is unprofitable?

While difficulty won't increasing forever with 18% average or more, it will definitely be increasing for quite some time.
and by the time difficulty increases will be slowing down, 10Gh blade will be producing only 0.3-0.2BTC per month.
I expect difficulty around 200-300million by the end of the year.

TLDR it only makes some sense to buy with cash and not with Bitcoins as the blade will never return investment in BTC as some blade owners that bought them for 50 BTC are finding out.

How does that even begin to make sense to anyone? They don't sell for cash, they sell for BTC, so whether you pay in BTC you have, or pay cash for new BTC then pay in BTC it's exactly the same thing. If the blade will never ROI in BTC, how does it matter whether you used $ or BTC - just buy BTC and keep it.

Back to the topic at hand, future diff increases are impossible to predict, but obviously the device is very very unlikely to ROI. What's easier to predict is that morons will buy it anyway.

Haha, my prediction was absolutely spot on! I said 5gh/s for 10 BTC, and 10gh/s for 20 BTC!!

I also said it wouldn't be worth it for those prices, and it definitely isn't, especially with recent news in the Bitcoin ASIC manufacturing world.

ASICminer still price gouging the naive...

any chance I could look at that spreadsheet?

see goxed post
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253410.msg2696744#msg2696744

wanna know why price is so high?

http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/885589255/T2AUEuXn0XXXXXXXXX_!!885589255.jpg

if you buy via taobao in china is it 1999 chinese yuan for 5GH/s 35W AND  3999 for 10GH/S 70W ?

http://friedcat.taobao.com/

1999yuan is like lower than 350USD so 350 / 78 current btc price  =  <5BTC??

I don't understand the stupidity of calculators taking into account "BTC price increase". The obvious alternative is to simply purchase the equivalent of ASIC purchase price in BTC, so obviously this has no place in a ROI calculation.

Parroting other people's ideas doesn't make them true.

the price is earnest only. 5G is 5200 yuan.

I'm skeptical when I read stuff like this (it makes me think butterfly labs):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.0;all

What do you mean by "earnest"?

https://i.imgur.com/lLugjG0.png

My point was while it is that obvious buying BTC is better option,
some people want to mine and investing say 1k usd and getting back 1.5k is still better
than have money sitting doing nothing.

Earnest money is similar to a down-payment/deposit to show the seller that you have interest in buying their product (and that declaration of interest  is backed by cold hard btc)

Is there no new usb miner or a price cut in the usb miners?

This post is pretty.

I will be buying one in hopes of selling it on eBay for a profit.

People who are buying this are inexperienced at mining. They probably started recently or haven't ever mined before at all. They see the present difficulty and don't understand how future difficulty changes will make what looks like a great investment now become an albatross later. The very reason for this price drop is because of past difficulty changes, and as others noted in this thread, the price is dropping faster than the blades are mining. Eventually difficulty will be so high that inexperienced miners will no longer run a calculation showing them getting $6000/yr from a $1400 item and will think twice about ordering.

1999 and 3999 is part of the price. The real price  is  abot 5000 and 10000 according to the btc price.
But btc price is 9.88BTC/5G  and 18.88BTC/10G.

If you have any questions, email to me : 136651667@qq.com

http://friedcat.taobao.com

9.88 / 18.88 = 0.5233

5000 / 10000 = 0.5

No discount for paying in yuan, just BTC?

If it doesn't make sense with Bitcoins it doesn't make sense with "cash" (fiat).  By doesn't make sense I assume you mean the unit will never generate more than 18 BTC in mining revenue.  Ok lets assume that is true.

If someone had cash they could just buy 18 BTC.  By the assumption above the unit will never produce 18+ BTC therefore it is more profitable to just take your "cash" and buy BTC.

I can't believe people still do this despite all the scammers that have been charging back and using stolen credit cards to buy them.  Good luck with that.

I assume that is all through Paypal? 

Maybe I will just sell on CL or bitmit for a smaller profit. 

according to this:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?spm=2013.1.0.0.vOM5Uh&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://item.taobao.com/item.htm%3Fid%3D26136168590&usg=ALkJrhiVdhqkLTSjKN41Uyf6bp8vwnN1JQ

Erupters are 88 Yuan that's what? $17 USD?

you cant trust the chinese!~

not even remotely attractive at this price.. with a near end of july delivery, these aren't attractive above 10btc in my opinion..

of course i've said that with every AM offering thus far.  Somehow, hes finding people, on this board even, who will pay a price that will never make them a dime.

Am I destined to just never understand?

FYI

I believe the owner of that site stated in another thread that it is "earnest money" listed there... meaning you have to pay that much if you intend on buying it, but the current price in Chinese yuan is 5000/10000

 You and I both are just destined to never understand. This is a hobby of mine. I'm spending my Bitcoins on gear to mine more Bitcoins.

 Since taking delivery of all my AM gear, I've mined more than enough coins in the last 60 days to buy at least another two new 10GHs blades when they become available. Throw my AM shares into the mix and I'm in pretty good shape.

 I'm in it for the fun-factor. ROI isn't everything for some. Trying to look 1-2 years down the road; same strategy as I employed with my GPU farm, which paid off nicely in BTC and allows for my ASIC expenditures with no fiat out.

 YMMV of course.

I've sold 3 mining rigs (pi, hub, 5 erupters) and 5 single erupters on ebay, no chargebacks. I think the frequency of chargebacks is blown out of proportion. Much more common is deadbeat bidders, which waste your time.

There are a ton of better reasons to not use ebay/paypal: 13% fees, holding your cash for 3 weeks, etc.

Holy shit!  13% fees!?

I haven't used eBay/Paypal in forever.  I was just going to let my wife handle the sale since she is an eBay nut.  Didn't realize the fees were that high!

*3%.

so 13% for eBay and 3% for Paypal?

Shit, good thing I moved to selling crap on CL years ago.  I prefer the in-person style of that better anyways!

10% for ebay, 3% for paypal. It's fucking CRAZY.

Sell a block erupter for $100: receive $87

Sell a mining rig for $1000: receive $870

Obvious outcome: sellers add 13% to the sale price.

Jesus!  I'll have to keep that in mind if I do decide to go with eBay... or if I can even convince my wife to let me buy some ASICs to resell :(

Why?
I am the person that you can trust and work with!
I think you get wrong information from the google translate.
You can downlown the IM softwere Aliwangwagn or QQ and talk with the custom service.
Or just email to me! 136651667@qq.com.

Thank you
Tom
http://friedcat.taobao.com

So you are telling us you can sell 10GH/s blades to us for under $700 USD ?

3999Y ~= $ 655 USD ?

Why does this smell fishy to me ?

sell 10G  > 10500Y ~= 2776 USD

sell 10G for 18.88 BTC.

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!

3999 is deposit!!!!!!



http://friedcat.taobao.com
[/quote]

So you are telling us you can sell 10GH/s blades to us for under $700 USD ?

3999Y ~= $ 655 USD ?

Why does this smell fishy to me ?
[/quote]

most of people use BTC(18.88) for New Blade 10G

http://s11.postimg.org/gq77dtcw3/10_Ghz_Blade.png

Take a look for yourself:

http://speedy.sh/DhW2Q/ASICs-are-way-overpriced-1.xlsx

I think it is obvious that friedcat is generally aware of how much his blades will actually make over a long period of time.

If you buy a blade, you give friedcat [upfront] what the blade will produce (in BTC) in the next year.  So he takes on almost no risk selling you the blade. The ROI (when you make back what it costs) is "all risk" that is offloaded on you...so you assume the "full risk" over the next year.

To be honest buying a 10Gh/s blade at that price is sheer stupidity. Your basically giving friedcat what the blade will eventually produce up front. Then waiting for the next year [as the buyer] to make it back...if luck is with you.

----------------------------

The only reason anyone would buy a blade at this price is if your intended to offload it unto an even bigger idiot. Someone who is going to put *you* in the position of "friedcat". Your second hand buyer (if they are stupid enough) will buy it off you and give you the BTC or currency up front. While they take an even higher/compounding risk [no, a certainty] that they will not make it back in the next year.

If the blade does not make 18BTC over the next year....how will it make the extra profit that the reseller attaches to it??

It is just too stupid to contemplate.

You guys are like, not reading it right.... They are not selling items, but selling tickets to join this bitcoin convention kind of deal.  If you are among the first 10 to sign up, you get a free USB miner, and first 100 gets free t-shirt

so they always aim at 3 months+ roi... i don't bother next time, waiting for their new price announcement

The final price of new blade and mini blade has not came out. Just waiting official announcement by friedcat.

When will the price announcement be made? When they will start shipping?

I have no any reliable news source about the shipping data. u can keep your eyes on what friedcat has said.

here is friedcat's profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49840

Friedcat said today:  The last August's IPO skype camera meeting is coming.
Maybe new products will be announced in the skype camera meeting.

So the shipping data is coming too.

Last August's meeting is coming? How is it coming when it happened last year?

Wow！
As we know, last means ' occurring at or forming an end'. Final is its synonym.
So you are kidding.
haha.

FTFY to keep grammar trolls happy.

but you know whats crazy is guys paid 50 BTC for blades and have been mining since mid May reaping a fortune and if they were smart they sold it a couple weeks ago. They were still selling for 35-40 BTC WAY over ROI. People told them they would never ROI at 50 BTC but if they sold for 35-40BTC a few weeks ago they probably made a fortune.

I seriously didn't understand what he meant. Last August's meeting usually literally means the meeting of last August. I thought he probably meant a meeting like one in last August but that didn't make much sense.

So what the exact date for the upcoming meeting in August?

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say?

They bought a blade in Mid-May, then they haven't gotten anywhere near their ROI up to now. Thats is less than 30 days span of time to make any BTC before they "allegedly" sold it off.

If they then sold them off for 35 or 40 BTC then that means for them to break even...they would have had to have made anywhere from 10 BTC to 15 BTC in that lapse of time. This only to actually break even.

So your statement is confusing. Are you saying that someone who purchased a Mid-May blade made back at least 10 to 15 BTC before they sold it off to some other fool for the remaining difference??

If not, then they just got out of it what they put into it...at best.

i got a blade in May, made about 21 BTC with it till last week, and sold it for 35 BTC, not a very good deal, i admit.

It wasn't too bad of a deal. With NMC conversion I made around 26 BTC and with the low $66 USD price of BTC last week I sold my blade for around 60 BTC on eBay. Assuming I don't get a dispute months later, it is hard to argue with a ~36 BTC profit in 2.5 months.

Seems like FriedCat is having the COMMUNITY pants down over these blades and selling them to us mugs at twice the price he is offering in mainland China:

Here is a nice 130Gh/s rig for sale at RMB 39999

https://i.imgur.com/qw6PrtD.png


Here is a translation using google translate:

Price: ¥ 39999.00
     Logistics Freight:
     Shanghai | to National Express: ¥ 15.00 seller promises delivery within 24 hours
     30 days sold: 1
     Average price: No rating
     Baby Type: New 4281 views
     Payment:

         Quick payment online banking payment

         Someone to pay the consumer card balances Alipay payment outlets
         Unfold

39999 Yuan or RMB is approx USD 6500 ( FOR 10 x 10Gh/s BLADES but can give 130Gh/s) which is being offered to us chumps at 18.9 BTC each blade?

dont see anything there about it being a deposit, seems like full price to me and delivery within 24 hours.
Please tell me I am wrong and FriedCat is not shafting everyone who does not live in China.
I will boycot this and start buying my ASIC's from some of the independents. There seem to be more and more popping up each day and cheaper too.

cheers,
kev

That statement by friedcat has nothing to do with the Blade price and shipping.

What he said was to tell us that the guy in the photo published in the news/weibo is not friedcat himself, which can be confirmed by the members attending last August's IPO skype camera meeting.

BTW, I think that guy in the photo is rockxie.

Just to make sure, I contacted the seller.  They are no longer selling the old blades (10~13G for 56BTC) and are accepting orders for the new 10G blades for BTC 18.88 each, to be shipped in 10 days from friedcat (Shenzhen, southern China) directly.

Those in China may get the goods faster but not significantly cheaper.

IM record in Chinese for those interested:

叽歪 (17:14:29):
您好，http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w4004-2539560000.10.EAsIOP&id=25811016545

http://img01.taobaocdn.com:80/tfscom/i3/19255024435646947/T1bm0iFndcXXXXXXXX_!!0-item_pic.jpg_460x460.jpg
http://img03.taobaocdn.com:80/tfscom/i1/885589255/T24KQhXftaXXXXXXXX_!!885589255.png_460x460.jpg
http://img01.taobaocdn.com:80/tfscom/i2/885589255/T22vchXjBXXXXXXXXX_!!885589255.jpg_460x460.jpg
http://img03.taobaocdn.com:80/tfscom/i2/885589255/T2W5giXcRXXXXXXXXX_!!885589255.gif_460x460.jpg
http://img03.taobaocdn.com:80/tfscom/i4/885589255/T2xmP4XnpaXXXXXXXX_!!885589255.jpg_460x460.jpg
 
宝贝： 拒绝期货和欺骗 烤猫刀片现货比特币 叠加算力 停止淘宝销售
价格： 39999.00元
运费： 至 广东 15.00元
月销量（1）
 是单片还是整台130G?
3暗黑3 (17:15:05):
这个现在没有货
叽歪 (17:15:37):
旧刀片没货，新刀片没到货？
3暗黑3 (17:16:20):
新刀片现在在预定，今天最后一天，5g 9.88btc  10g 18.88btc
3暗黑3 (17:16:36):
烤猫那边10天之内发货
叽歪 (17:16:48):
深圳直发？
3暗黑3 (17:16:54):
是的
叽歪 (17:16:58):
谢谢！

I've seen more than a few people kick up a stink about blade prices, not realizing that a lot of the numbers they're seeing are down payments.

I've also seen a stink about the price being too high.  People either believe in free markets or they don't.  Are they selling out?  Yes then the price isn't too high.  If the price is too high then they won't be able to move units at that price and they will lower the price.  Right now ASICMiner faces minimal competition.   Avalon has sold a lot of chips but not a lot of complete units.  If/when Avalon board builders start to sell in bulk and <gasp> even have units available for immediate delivery ASICMiner will be forced to lower their price ... or they won't sell anything.

Trust the power of open fair markets people.

Sad that AM prices are too high? Blame BFL and Avalon.

Prices will drop as soon as  BFL manages to deliver and avalon might be ready too.

Btw. iam raffling my avalon for only 1 btc. (Yeah you can buy a avalon for 1 btc)

In related news you can buy $200 million dollars for just $1 dollar. 

Only ONE 13G blade sell for 39000Y  and it is not invailble now.
Maybe you can use some translate tools for more information.
If you have any question, email to me tomfor88@foxmail.com

The free market is an abstract idea.

Just because the free market is in action does not automatically mean that buyers are getting a good deal. It may turn out that way, but it doesn't necessitate that it will turn out that way.

The idea of a free market can be both good and bad to either party (sellers or buyers). If the conditions of the market are skewed it can be destructive through various pre-set conditions and/or even helpful if conditions are right.

=======================
An example of a destructive free market:

If a product is being sold at a price point where there are enough fools to "buy out" the supply in a free market. The fools will get burned.

These fools, once they part with their money, will not be making any positive return at a specific price point. As long as there are enough fools, the market is sustained without change. Leaving non-fools deprived of a particular product at a "useful" and workable price point.

If there is enough "demand" from new fools to replace old fools, the market can sell a product that never actually does anything useful to anyone. It will just move wealth from one pocket into another. Never serving it's ultimate purpose to a useful degree.

There is always a market for idiots to buy and sell things.

The free market makes no guarantees that the buyer is in anyway informed or fully aware enough of whether the product being sold will actually do what it is being purchased to do.

It only stipulates that given enough competitors, the end result is that products will become cheaper (not necessarily better).

------------------------

There are giant holes the size of kansas city in the free market idea. (not that I am generally against it)

If you don't think I am saying something truthful...try sitting on your cars plastic bumper and see how many hundreds of dollars it costs you to get it repaired.  ;)

Cheaper =/= better.

I never claimed buyer will (or are) getting a good deal.  If your math says the deal is bad then don't buy.  If enough people do that (or eventually buy lower priced competitor goods) then ASICMiner will be forced to lower their prices.  It really is that simple.  

Either way the situation is self correcting.  If ASICMiner is making profit hand over fist that just encourages competition.  If you don't buy a rig because they are overpriced but someone else does (maybe less informed) then the network still gains security. 

Before or after they request a refund and realize it doesn't do what they expected it would? (And therefore never turn it on...thereby...possibly...not adding to nor "securing" the network any further)

Perhaps, large en masse "sell offs" of hashing hardware at deeply discounted prices to one or two individuals with deep pocket books might even make the network less secure.

---------------

You are right, you are not advocating that people are getting a good deal. What would you "call it" if this were the case? (i.e. a bad deal for the customer)

Choose one word to describe that practice. (and no, Free Market is not one word)

P.S. Do you sell any AM hardware by any chance? (in the interest of full disclosure)

If so, do you sell the hardware at a price that even I would consider it beneficial to your customers?

You are wrong. friedcat is not shafting everyone who does not live in China

Nice arguments.  I think if AM doesn't sell them for a bit overpriced, then the people who buy them probably will with the current demand.

It's 56BTC for one Blade ;). The picture shows only that you can combine up to 10 blades

You guy is absolutly right!