Bitcoin Forum

Got letter today from U.S. bank (usbank.com) saying because i use my accounts to buy bitcoins they are closing my accounts. They say it against their rules. Can you guys help me and tell me what banks you use to buy bitcoins?

Doesn't sound right.  Did they provide you with their ToS with the letter and exactly where you broke the terms?  What are they doing with the funds in your account, are they freezing them or giving you them via official bank check, etc.?

agreed, if its against their rules then you should request to see the rule book

Will you post a copy of the letter?

What sorts of transactions were you doing related to bitcoins?

Bitcoins, as a new invention, are causing lots of confusion. Bitcoins are not issued by any government so banking institutions may be unsure how to handle them in context of banking regulations.

Banks may over react and close accounts to be on the safe side. In fact, that happened to MtGox's bank in France a year ago I believe, but MtGox sued and had their account reopened (I think they later switched banks anyway).

The first thing to understand is bitcoins are not illegal. Guidance issued by FinCEN (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154672.0) (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, a bureau of US Dept. of the Treasury) pertaining to virtual currencies, and seemingly Bitcoin in particular, specifically says users that trade virtual currency directly for goods/services are not subject to regulation. This is generally taken to mean using bitcoins in legal ways is fine. There is an entire industry springing up around Bitcoin, including a possible stock exchange listing (http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/01/winklevoss-twins-file-to-launch-bitcoin-exchange-traded-product/).

So a bank saying it's against their rules seems to me overly cautious.

If you're willing to take the time it may be possible to have your account reopened, but that outcome is not guaranteed. The easiest thing to do I think is simply open an account somewhere else and don't use it for anything directly bitcoin related until these issues become clearer. There are other ways to buy/sell bitcoins with localbitcoins.com (https://localbitcoins.com) usually available if nothing else. BitInstant.com (https://www.bitinstant.com/) is also a popular way to transfer money into Bitcoin exchanges. More options are in the works.

here is what i got. it doesn say much. So when i called bank asking what rules i broke they told I was buying bitcoins . I didnt tell bank i was using it to buy bitcoins just ecurrencies. Somehow they find out
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106526372/letter.jpg

all i was doing is arbitrage. buying in one place sell them in other

Banks suck!

Bank says they will never deal with me again, wont open or reopen any accounts. Funny thing that they kept my credit accounts but closing only deposit accounts

I had a mortgage which was sold to US bank. They were pretty difficult to deal with, the customer service was horrid. I would not recommend using them for anything.

If you were doing arbitrage I'm guessing there was quite a bit of activity on your bank account. For example, if you only wanted to by several bitcoins to hold or trade for goods/services, you might make one or two large transactions with your bank account, but then only deal in bitcoins. However, it sounds like you might have lots of bank transfer activity which could have raised a flag even if you weren't doing anything wrong.

It may depend on the bank too though, as you're not the only one to receive a bank letter concerning bitcoins:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ha43p/just_got_an_interesting_letter_from_my_bank/

Last, be sure to keep track of and handle any tax requirements for your bitcoin exchanges.

Fuck the bankers.  They are responsible for so much misery in the world.  Follow the money trails.

Get a new bank, problem solved.

+1

The letter doesn't mention bitcoin.  Did they tell you that part in some other communication?

well, i'm freaking out cause there is no guarantee other bank will not do the same. I'll give wells fargo try. Spoke to them they dont mind bitcoins.

when i called them to find out what the deal is they say cause i was buying bitcoins. I never told bank i will be using wires to buy bitcoins. I told them i will be buying e-currencies. I believe bitstamp account where i was wiring money to is flagged or something

Try the Internet Credit Union out: https://iafcu.org/ - they've gone on record at the Bitcoin 2013 Conference saying that they support Bitcoin, so you shouldn't have to worry about it with them.

Is this the start of US government's war on Bitcoin?

I think the war on Bitcoins is only just starting, its a direct threat against BANKS. The only Bank that will support this is the "ANTI-BANKs" IE Credit Unions

This is actually pretty important.  Does anybody know of a list of bitcoin friendly banks?  i.e. Ones with a large amount of branches?

In my experience it is the smaller institutions that will give you less trouble.  I couldn't care less that my credit union doesn't have any branches outside of my state.  They refund all ATM fees anyway.

I think banks make most of their money by giving out loans. Transaction fees probably don't count for that much. It's things like PayPal and credit card companies that can very easily become obsolete.

"all of my deposit accounts" how many accounts did you have? ???

   There's more to this story than just "we're closing your account because of its association with bitcoins".  Some kind of fraud had to trigger an investigation or the OP was moving thousands of dollars (through bitcoin companies) and the bank dug around and didn't like what it saw.

Were you doing the arbitrage on your own or using a third party like this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251951.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251951.0)

Banks keep tabs on your normal account activity so if you suddenly spiked up with higher activity (high cash deposit frequency, lots of wires, etc.) they might be covering their ass by shutting you down.  I would still try to find out what specific term or condition you violated as it will be beneficial to you and the rest of the community.  Ask for it in writing, don't just talk to some customer service agent.

Not exactly... check out this article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2012/03/01/no-surprise-here-bank-of-america-looks-to-charge-more-fees/

USBank is fairly conservative and would not open an account of me a couple years ago when I told them I wanted to do currency exchange. If you're going to be regularly sending and receiving even moderate amounts of money, they're eventually going to want to see your AML and KYC bona fides. I would say it's better to be up front with them if you are opening an account but there's no guarantee that what a local branch manager will say will hold any sway at all when corporate's AML compliance team flags you. It's best to diversify bank wise and keep it to a personal level of exchange unless you're prepared to get licensed as necessary in the US/your state/your country.

Yep.... it's hard to make money on loans when the base rates are below 0.25% per year.

Its called money laundering...... you need a license and a clear  COC

This is why I'm terrified to use my bank account to buy bitcoins.  I know this guy was doing a lot of transactions, but if they closed down my account it would be terrible.

What??? Arbitrage does not, in any way, equal money laundering. Christ, has everyone been brainwashed?

why? you could just move to a different bank.

Moving to a different bank isn't an easy task.

This sounds wholly inaccurate.   It is perfectly legal to buy or sell bitcoins using a bank account.  Coinbase does tends of thousands of transactions every day.

Can you post the letter from the bank?

Must be more involved here.

If you do business on localbitcoins.com, it is nice to have a large number of branches, since people across the U.S. for instance can pretty much deposit cash in a local branch that is U.S. Bank for example.

He was moving thousands of dollars through is personal accounts to do arbitrage across exchanges.  You should at least talk to your branch manager before starting this kind of activity.

Really.  Because using a bank as a bank is a bad thing.  But maybe he was using too many free wire transfers..... wait.... wire transfers are not free....

Ok.  I get it.  They were making too much money on him and wanted to stop. 

I could imagine if he was constantly moving money around for free, but not for fees.

Banks fear the government more than the lust for extra money.  The make enough money as it is without risking invoking the wrath of the USG.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yes this! Fixed for you :)

T.

Banks fear the government and aren't greedy?  We're talking about the US here.

All of the major banks have it in there terms of service that they can close your account whenever they want and all they have to do is give you a two week notice.
Anytime they see activity that they don't like, for whatever reason, they send out these notices and close accounts. Usually it is not even a person making the decision, but some risk management software has flagged your account for whatever reason.

they would just be closing your accounts, that wouldn't force you to refinance your mortgage :P

I don't think there's any point in fighting this as they don't have to provide you service but you can always tell them that buying Bitcoin isn't illegal nor is it against their ToS (unless it says you can't do that which I highly doubt).

The US government is definitely the most hostile regime to bitcoin, why else would banks be scared to have your service and earn money off your wire transfers. Glad I don't live there. @OP, best look around for a new bank, goodluck.

Long live Bitcoin and crypto

Yes, yes we are.

They are certainly greedy, but they do fear the government.  They will take 0% loans from the FED for speculative profits over wire transfer fees that mostly go to other banks any day, especially if there is a (perceived or real) regulatory threat from allowing the activity to continue.

Interesting I would be irritated as well go complain to the board

WAR ON BITCOIN WAR ON BITCOIN ! ! , it's this hysterical over excited posting that seems to be a part of every thread which is simply efforts to manipulate pricing.

In December last year I had my yorkshire bank accounts frozen after £15,000 of trading of Bitcoin this was lots of bank transfers in and out of my private account, the surge of business  activity into a private bank account had caused the freeze not Bitcoin. They were happy for me to continue buying/selling bitcoin as long as I opened a business account within a month. In the end I opened the business account with Barclays who didn't have a problem with me buying and selling Bitcoin either.

You don't live in America, that's why you think everyones just being hysterical, I'm in the UK but I know full well just how psychotic and paranoid the U.S government is, that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK government taking steps as well soon enough, they're just more subtle about it.

I opened brand new business account to do arbitrage. They closing it after 2 wires $20000 total.

to sell bitcoins legally you need some sort of license, because even if you sell it it is considered money transmitting service.

This is the way it works (in the US).  If he were coming in and making a lot of cash deposits, which are not his usual activity, the teller could file a SAR (suspicious activity report).  Even if it wasn't cash, if it was a negotiable instrument like a wire or money order, same thing.  The SAR then goes to the bank's BSA/AML compliance department where they determine whether or not to file the SAR.  It doesn't need to be a teller, it could really be anyone, bank manager, compliance themselves, or someone in the bank's BSA division.  This doesn't mean he's doing anything wrong, just that the activity to them looks suspicious and needs to be examined further.  If these steps are not taken, the bank can be fined.

In this case, what's likely happened is they did a risk/reward determination.  Is this one person's business worth possibly getting into trouble for.  They determined it wasn't and said, "we no longer want your business, here's your money back."  They might have very conservative AML laws compared to other banks, who knows.  If they had frozen his funds that would be a whole different matter because then they're saying something illegal has occurred but that isn't the case.  They just did a CYA move and said go find somebody else.

It's not about making money, it's about operating under crazy regulation that will likely only get worse as time goes on.

Many credit unions participate in a network so you could use most any other credit union's ATM as well.  I had a credit union that used the Co-Op network so was near a fee-free ATM nearly all the time.  I don't now if IAFCU gives refunds for ATM fees, but I see their network, CU24, is huge -- about a dozen ATMs within a two mile radius of where I am right now.




I doubt they block everyone transferring to Mt. Gox, BITSTAMP, etc., so they probably considered the Pareto principle where possibly 80% of the dollars being sent are from just 20% of the customers and to shut those down.  Perhaps their highly paid compliance people do this so that they can argue why their salaries and bonuses are justified (make some arbitrary rule that is easy to enforce, enforce it, and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done even though there was no valid reason for it ... buying bitcoins isn't a crime.)

It was probably due to the extra paperwork they were having to do because of the amount of funds you were moving.  Banks and currency exchangers are subject to reporting to the FINCEN.  Here's a pdf the FINCEN issues to banks for whose accounts they need to report:

www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/bsa_quickrefguide.pdf

Agreed.  Banks have to pay for all your transactions, and I doubt they're going to be willing to let you play with hundreds and thousands of deposits and withdrawals, using their system to do so.  that costs them money.  I understand why they closed it down, and it has nothing to do with some "war on bitcoin".  Banks just dont want to pay the fees.   They got pissed off at me because i was transferring money in and out of a savings account too much last month.  And all i was doing was transferring to my other accounts. 

I am sorry but I have never heard of this before. I have of freezing but not just random closing.

Please post letter or it didn't happen, Thanks!  ::)

I do deal with banks a LOT as part of my 9-5

I'd guess what freaked them out is your account was a personal account with ordinary "personal" type activity in it; all of a sudden a large-ish wire hit your account, possibly from overseas (ie mt gox, btc-e), and then they saw the money zip back out to another source (I'd guess btce). Do that a few more times (sell bitcoins on gox, transfer proceeds to you bank, transfer dollars to btce, buy bitcoins, transfer to gox, sell, transfer to your bank) and they're just seeing a lot of money moving around from basically unknown sources, etc. it'll send up lots of red flags. And unless you're a big customer, they don't like red flags. I almost guess their communication to you didn't mention bitcoin.

My only guess, is next time form a business, even a sole proprietorship, and explain what you'll be doing when you open the account. Don't necessarily need to mention bitcoins, just something like overseas securities trading, just so the bank is aware of the funds movements you account will likely see.

I'm sorry reading is hard for you.  OP posted it on the first page.

If you just mention "bitcoin" or "e currencies" or other abstract terms like that, most bankers won't have s clue what you're talking about and will just say yes. Explain lots of wires in and out, that more accurately describes what the bank will be dealing with.

it would be epic if you print a bitcoin symbol in a big white t-shirt and go roam around big banks....

:)

of course it is:

Just go close the accounts, take your cashiers check and walk into any local credit union. Explain to them your business (arbitrage) and that you need whatever volume of wires over whatever time frame... I'm sure they'll be able to set you up with the accounts you need.

One of the very best things for bitcoin would be if the USA started a "war on bitcoin"... every single 'war on' anything that the US starts fails miserably and their target becomes legal and/or legitimate.

'war on drugs' anyone?

And then change you and your wife's direct deposits, move your safe deposit box (if the new bank has any room!), change the mortgage payment, the car payment, all of your credit card auto-pays, the water bill, the garbage bill, the insurance bill, order new checks, deal with a new ATM pin.

https://thebutterzone.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/bitcoins-u-s-savingsmoney-market-accounts-dont/

I recently spoke with someone who works as a compliance officer at a large bank (in the US) regarding this issue. She basically told me that accounts that move a lot of money in and out of the country automatically trigger alerts that put them into the so called high-risk category. These accounts then need to be kept under closer tabs, as in someone needs to manually track subsequent suspicious transactions and either file Suspicious Activity Reports or record down the reasons why the bank thinks that the transactions are not suspicious after all. (This could be as simple as someone from the bank calling you and asking you what these wire transfers are all about and then adding your response to the file.) Failure to do so could result in heavy fines against the bank. This is a lot of work for the bank, so at some point the bank just closes these troublesome accounts if they feel that the revenues that these accounts bring in do not justify the costs required to maintain regulatory compliance.

This is true for both personal and business accounts, but the handling of each is different.

For every action there is a reaction, equal in force and opposite in direction.

Why couldn't they just ask the customer to stop the undesired transactions rather the closing the account preemptively?

A) An individual account, if you're an ordinary person, isn't too important to them. In aggregate, they are, yes, but any single account, not so much.... much easier just to have a form letter go out and be done with it.

B) The bank is operating under the assumption that whatever activity that's going on in the account is activity that the account owner needs to do. So they'll say "well, when we opened the account, he was just a regular depositor like all the others, but now he's doing all these international wires and shifting money all over the place, we don't like that". They don't look at transactions as being optional (they'll never say "would you please stop depositing money into your account?" or "if you wouldn't mind, please stop making withdrawals" (second part, actually, they will for savings accounts and money market accounts; those account types are limited to 6 withdrawals or less per month otherwise they convert to checking accounts. Not like there's any difference in this day and age of 0% interest rates, but when that changes, there MIGHT become more of a difference between checking and savings)

I still use my account to deposit to mt.gox's account.
I never notice the strange rules from my bank.

I think your account should be locked by other reasons.

Are transfers to coinbase within the US?

Stop using banks altogether - Bitcoin was created as an alternative to this monetary tyranny. Why should banks embrace it?

Your landlord takes Bitcoin?

Yes, Coinbase is domiciled in the US.

Thanks, sounds like that may be a good way to avoid some of the risk of transferring money overseas then.

rent money is dead money

 This was not a guy trading a 'few' coins he was moving significant amounts of money.

I have a number of totally legit companies, there are many laws.. for which I  employ accountants and lawyers, because they are EXPERTS in their field.
I looked at opening Bitcoin trading and an exchange, I consulted these experts, we discussed  manual/automated buy and sell/ offshoring amongst other methods.

It is considered MONEY LAUNDERING..... UNLESS you have the correct licenses in place.

My old best friend works at a bank now. The irony

My house is paid off. I pay my rent to the California Property Tax Board every November and February. My rent goes up every year and they don't take Bitcoins.

Walk in and hand a note to the bank teller saying:

Give me all your bitcoins.

Of course don't include anything sayings like this is a stick up or anything.
It's just a joke like if you walked in and asked the teller to give you all her quarters because you are doing laundry. She will laugh, you will laugh, everyone in the bank will giggle and laugh and fun will be had by all.  :)

Not sure if troll

As mentioned already by someone else, it's already been posted.

Healthy scepticisim is good but just because you've never heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Drugs have become legal/legitimate? I know weed in some states has but it'll never happen for ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, etc.

No because the bank are then going to be held responsible for the existing transfers so they'd need to be investigated.

As a business (the bank) - it's far better to be seen to do something against money laundering than only allowing a small number of transactions through.

Don't forget, for money laundering, you might only need to make one huge transfer and be done. If the bank just said, don't do it again, then most money laundering would pass by unchecked.

Open an account at a credit union and use that for your bitcoin stuff.

Seriously.

Every thread I've seen about closed accounts due to bitcoin have one thing in common - major national banks.
Maybe that's just because most people use major national banks, but I suspect *speculation ahead* they close enough to get people talking but not enough to be looked at for anti-trust. I suspect it is a FUD tactic hoping to slow/stop the adoption of bitcoin.

Trade unions are less likely to be party to that kind of thing. And even if a trade union does close the account you use for bitcoin, it doesn't then impact your regular banking account.

Are you asking if I'm a troll?

FYI, I got a call from my bank multiple times verifying that I was sending money to bitstamp, and that chase would not be held responsible for bitstamps failure to provide service (they didn't mention bitcoins but they alos never asked what bitstamp was or anything else). I send lots of wires, probably 20% get flagged, bitstamp ones get flagged nearly 80% of the time.

I'm always sending from/to the same account.

IAFCU is going to be very interesting, what do their wire fees look like?

Drugs have become legal/legitimate? I know weed in some states has but it'll never happen for ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, etc.
[/quote]

Yes it will...all drugs are legal in a couple of countries. I think Portugal in one. If we don't go extinct from climate change or nuclear annihilation or some killer virus, then eventually most countries will make all drugs legal.

Don't know if you're a troll as such but that post has surely got to be one.

If you did that in a bank we'll all be hearing it in the news by dinner time  ;D

It was an attempt at humor.

Not sure how you think this might be trolling. We must have different opinions on what trolling is.  :)

It is my understanding that banks have been actively lobbying for years against the Dodd-Frank law, as the cost of compliance for them is astronomical and forces them to turn away business that they would want to have in a normal functioning market.  The posts here seem to indicate that may be true.  Nobody wants to turn away business, but once they look at the cost benefit analysis and risk reward relationship in this regulatory environment it sort of ties their hands.  Are the regulators being aggressive?  Yes, but the real answer is that it is time for a round of deregulation.  Probably not a politically popular word after the financial crisis, but economically it would be great!

People definitely are getting their accounts closed, anybody who thinks that's trolling is blind.

Of course. They want to bleed you dry on interest.

So sorry I missed that tiny link while scanning. No need to be rude. Ya jerk.  :P

Anyway wow that is very weird and sucks. I also don't know nor have ever heard of what USbank is so you should probably not use them lol.

Here is the letter that OP posted a link to earlier in this thread:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106526372/letter.jpg

BS. "All drugs are legal" NOWHERE. In most of european countries (including Spain, Italy and obviously PORTUGAL) possession of any drug for personal use is decriminalized, meaning that if you get caught smoking a joint, or doing cocaine/heroine whatever, you can NEVER go to jail unless they can prove that your are a drug dealer - if you are not and only have "personal use" quantities, you just get a fine, an administrative sanction that is just like a speeding ticket.

Even more, even if you have very big quantities (a couple of kilos of Marihuana, dozens of grams of cocaine), if you can a) prove that you are an addict and that those quantities are for you and only for you (for example for a whole year) and b) the prosecutors cannot prove that you are a dealer (for example because you can justify all the money you have from a legit job, plus you do not have any trafficking related gadgets like scales, etc.), then you will be free as a bird regardless of the quantity they catch you with.

But this is very different from "all drugs are legal". You still cannot legally sell any drugs nowhere, apart from a very few and notable exceptions regarding cannabis (and sometimes minor drugs like shrooms) in The Netherlands (but its just because they do not enforce the law, not because its explicitly legal(), North Korea, Pakistan and some States of the US.

You see, "legalizing all the drugs" (legalizing meaning that you are able to freely buy and sell them) is not happening anytime soon, there is too much powerful people living directly (trafficking) and indirectly (Government agencies like DEA, drug police, etc.) from drugs being a "black market" thing, and thus something that is sold with a huge premium and without paying any tax. The 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs) is still being enforced, and nations that try to do otherwise are always reminded by the US that there is a 1961 treaty that needs to be respected or there will be very serious consecuences. This is why The Netherlands never "legalized" Marijuana, even tough they don't enforce its illegality in coffee shops.

Sorry for the off-topic, but the "all drugs are legal in Portugal" its so wrong I couldn't help myself...

EDIT: maybe a mod should move these three posts (mine and the two I'm replying to) to a different thread as this is 100% off-topic.

The account didn't get closed because of bitcoins. It got closed because of your usage. Having to file 3-4 SAR a day tends to make banks grumpy. Even 1-2 a month is a red flag. Unless you have a HUGE business account and keep enough money in there for it to be worth it to them to keep a staffer on hand to file them all.

You can thank your government and the ridiculous laws it passed. Now, not only can you not use a bank account in the US, but no foreign bank will touch you either, for the same reason.

/ another indentured citizen of the United States.
//wants out before the country implodes.

Perhaps you use non FinCEN like mtgox ( currently now registered with FinCEN but not available for 48 States for the time being) authorized service to block you. I think this is the reason.

The quantity may have been the red flag but the transaction fee they charge covers the cost of filing.

the long and short of it is your behavior caused them to believe that you were more of a liability to them than an asset. so they cut you off because its their bank, they can chose to do that.

He was doing business, and these may have been personal accounts. Banks structure their workload and expectations differently between personal and business accounts. This whole sad problem may be as trivial as the distinction I just pointed out. Add to this the possibility of AML flagging, an occasional idiot in the corporate office, and general ignorance of what Bitcoin is, and you get high likelihood of what is described in here.

I, too, wanted to run multi-currency arbitrage. Developed algos, tested them on historical data, but after weeks of preparations had to give up precisely due to admimistrative overhead. It's not easy doing it right.

That would be acceptable if that was made clear before he opened the account.

I.e. ToS: We can cut you off if your activity is suspicious, i.e. if you transfer too much (greater than 10000 in one month)

The "We'll cut you off for any reason at any time just cuz" doesn't feel fair.

I got the same letter. Like, identical except with my account numbers and more recent dates.

wow that's some scarey stuff guys , im in the UK and haven't heard of any banks here causing anyone any trouble, could be wrong let me know if i am, i hear alot of news about the FED cracking down on you guys in the usa, i read that Germany is the first country to accept bitcoin!   

I had some large cash deposits which got me a call from the branch manager. Basically told her I was buying and selling bitcoins. Was told not to buy any more bitcoin from coinbase or they would close my account. Got this letter a couple weeks later.

are you in the USA?

It feels like a dick move because it is. But it's also their business. You try running a business and being told you can't choose who your customers are, and tell me if that's fair.

Ok, sure ... in a free market the banks should be able to say which customers they wish to serve.   And in that free market I can then start a bank next door to compete.

But it isn't a free market.  The banking industry is a regulated monopoly.

As long as I am prohibited by law from providing this competing service, then banks have a responsibility to provide service without discrimination.    Get rid of that law and open the banking industry up to competition .... and I'm fine with the banks restricting access to whichever customers they choose to.

Or better yet, let's start using a payments network and store of value that routes around this regulatory friction.  

Yep! Boise, Idaho US Bank branch. 10 year old accounts they're closing. Checking & savings.

sorry to hear that dude

Barclays has been hostile to Bitcoin: it froze the accounts of blockchain.info and Mt Gox (but doesn't that feel like so long ago now, 'twas barely a year!).

It is very common for banks to closely monitor cash deposits/withdrawals, even amounts much lower then required for currency transaction reports (CTRs). Cash transactions (even just a few thousand) on personal accounts or businesses that do not normally deal with cash can easily be considered suspicious in the eyes of the bank. Depending on the bank's policies and procedures, they may inquire more about the transactions or just send you a closure letter. If they do talk to you about the transactions and are not satisfied with the results they may send you a closure letter anyway.

Banks have received significant regulatory pressure in recent years and their risk tolerance for depository accounts has changed greatly. For example, finding a bank that will entertain the idea of opening an account for a money service business (MSB) is very difficult. Even if you are able to, the bank may have a large collateral requirement in addition to the normal MSB requirements.

Do you mind saying which bank.  I may need to open an account with another bank and I want to stay away from bitcoin-hostile banks. 

Maybe we should start a thread identifying bitcoin-hostile and bitcoin-friendly banks.

I knew I had seen this somewhere.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264679.0)

This is not so surprising. The less you can involve your bank with bitcoins, the better, as a general rule....  :)

That's incredible.  This has been a bad year for exchanges.  Now a bad one for user accounts. 

woo..how can they do this..

Wow, I hope this doesn't happen to me. I have used coinbase a few times.  :-\

Pretty much every business, other than an essential utility, can decide that they no longer wish to do business with you. It can definitely be extremely inconvenient.

WOW, i had no idea this was happening to people. i have never involved my bank account with a bitcoin transaction, but i now i know the risks....  :-\

I quit using banks 30 years ago. The nearest office of my credit union is now a four hour drive away but I use ATMs and a local credit union that's on the credit union network when an ATM won't do the job.

hmmm. are you saying that credit unions are preferable to banks? how so?  :)

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/2011/11/14/7-ways-credit-unions-are-better-than-banks

or I can speak from my perspective. I've been with the same credit union since I was 8, I think. Never any fees to have accounts there, unless I were to unnecessarily upgrade. First 10 years, <1% APY savings account only. Then when I turned 18, I was able to get free eChecking (they sent 2 complimentary checkbooks when I signed up, and I still haven't used up #1) and a credit line. My CU credit line is now over $12k with less than 10% interest. My Chase Amazon Visa card, just under $3k, IDK about interest because I'm liquid enough to pay 100% every month and I barely spend anything to begin with. Apparently it's 14-22% (http://www.amazon.com/Chase-Amazon-com-Rewards-Visa-Card/dp/B007URFTYI).

Then when I got into Bitcoin, I got fucked by going FRB Reg D overlimit (http://thebutterzone.wordpress.com/tag/regulation-d/), never even realizing it existed before then. I closed my savings account and now can do unlimited numbers of transactions on my credit card & checking account.

Credit unions tend to join co-op networks where you can use their ATMs fee-free, mine is in the same network with a CU that has cash-taking ATMs, so I can deposit and get credited immediately whenever the ATM works (I have to say it had a broken sign on it the last time I went there).

So really, the only reason to use a bank is to roll the dice on being able to have an account people can deposit to across multi-state distances (no CU other than Internet Archive's covers more than one metro area, AFAIK). You pay way more fees, then they may close your account and say "lol bitcoin". My CU hasn't questioned my bitcoin activity at all, and the only fee I paid was for the Reg D overlimit. Also, there was no requirement for me to pay to be a member, or have some cause for being a member. I just became one, and so did the rest of my family.

Bank where the rich people bank.

Sorry, I'm not rich so I can't recommend any. Belize? Switzerland?

Cyprus? Iceland?

Be careful, and comply with the laws in your country.
Do not try to evade tax.

I would not recommend Chyprus though

While you're doing the right thing not openly endorsing "tax evasion" (illegal) - I prefer not to peeve off violent entities like governments and police myself - it should be noted that tax avoidance, which is to say doing everything legally practicable to minimise tax liabilities, is to be strongly recommended. Let's take capital gains tax for the sake of argument: you are a resident of the UK that imposes a hefty capital-gain tax above GBP 10.400 annual gains. Illegal tax evasion would be to try to make those gains (relevant to this community, exchanging bitcoin for fiat after a strong exchange rate rise) "invisible", e.g. by trading under the table into cash or PMs and telling the government nothing about it. Perfectly peaceable and moral, but illegal. Legal tax avoidance might be to relocate to the Isle of Man or Germany, which have less unfavourable laws regarding capital-gain taxes.

Did they at least let you withdrawal? If not your wasting time..

As much as I hate banks, I've had good experiences dealing with Wells Fargo doing BTC related transactions. Zero issues after 2+ years of transactions.

The same thing just happened to me today.  They didn't send me a letter, but when they called me and asked me about the number of out-of-state deposits in my account, they told me they have a policy against bitcoin and closed my accounts.

hello all
I dont understand all technical details but how it is possible that FBI bureau has located and seized a collection of 144,000 bitcoins???

I thought that BTC cannot be seized or taken away by officials or police. especially when someone encrypt the wallet.
How they could eaily seized firstly btc of users of silkroad and now at second also seized ulbrichts money?????

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

and at second - I would say that news like this should sent price of bitcoin down, especially when we know "that from the 1,814,400 BTC awarded, 1,148,800 BTC has never been spent (63%).   As of October 2012.
we suppose (but have not checked it yet) that these are exactly the segments that belong to the mystery entity," https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/the-well-deserved-fortune-of-satoshi-nakamoto/

The Verge reported earlier this year that Satoshi Nakamoto, the Bitcoin network’s mysterious founder, has an address with over one million bitcoins.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/6/4295028/report-satoshi-nakamoto

I thought that people would be scared of all that bad news and bitcoin price would fall down (so that I could afford to buy some  ;D ;D ;D ;D

All you need to spend the money in any wallet is the private key.  You can create one insecurely, such as by using a bad "brain wallet" (some would say any brain wallet), or you can trust a web wallet to keep your key online.  Or you can get hacked.  Or you can voluntarily give it up to the authorities, such as if they're waterboarding you, or offering you a deal where you get to leave prison before you're 80.

Yep.

What's been assumed is that either (1) DPR gave authorities access to those bitcoins, or (2) he failed to properly secure them by either not encrypting the private keys at all or by using weak passwords.